Guild Wars 2

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I think before we talk about solutions, we have to be clear about the problems and that not everyone agrees about what is grind vs what is inherently enjoyable. For example, getting to max level in GW1 was easier, but getting to max stats/abilities (e.g. skills) was much grindier in my opinion — and yet, we see people in this thread arguing the opposite.

I think, though, we can agree about some things:

• Time gating & account-bound crafting conflicts with running alts and swapping builds.
• Gear/stats aren’t progressed as much as it’s replaced: you can’t resell or reuse masterwork, rare, or exotics when you upgrade to the next level. Heck, when you decide to junk PVT for something else, you also can’t reuse or recycle.
• A lot of people like constantly improving their game in-game (e.g. levels, new skills, gear), but a lot of people who drank the GW2 kool-aid (including me) prefer maxing in-game abilities quickly and challenging ourselves in-game to improve our playing abilities. Both groups will see the same activity or challenges completely differently: the first group is glad there are 80 levels; the second group is not.

For me personally, I don’t like any sort of vertical progression. Leveling is a burden to me. It wasn’t hard in GW2 to reach L80, but I didn’t feel I was really playing the game until I had all skills unlocked for each profession, an activity that became increasingly dull for me with each alt. I also don’t care much about horizontal progression: I like attractive armor and weapons as much as anyone, but I don’t care much if I have it.

What interests me is personal progression: I want a game that always presents challenges for me. I liked this about GW1 and GW2: no matter how good I thought I was, there were always things I couldn’t do at first, but only after mastering other aspects of the game. GW1’s short-lived version of the Living Story (GW Beyond) added such challenges and gave the game new life for me.

Hi Illconceived,

I really like a sense of personal progression to through challenge and we will be continuing to move in this direction.

Chris

Conncept.7638:

ColinJohanson.2394:

A question to help direct the discussion a bit:

What are some of your favorite progression systems of all time in others? Be they horizontal, or vertical, just which ones really got you excited and were fun for you to continue to progress in?

For me, Final Fantasy Tactics is one I loved, where I was able to continue to unlock new jobs and advanced professions for my characters, as well as level up their abilities within those professions. It remains one of my all time favorite games, and one of my favorite systems of progression in any game. I’m also pretty darn fond of that Guild Wars game and skill collection.

If I may say, one area of progression, both horizontal and vertical, which I consider to be a complete failure is crafting.

I’m a craftsmen in real life, though I’ve moved in to the digital age and an currently studying to be an animator, modeler, and concept artist, my mother was a classical portraitist and landscape artist and my father was a carpenter. I can work to some degree with pretty much anything but metal and glass. And I have hated, HATED, every single crafting system in every game ever, except one.

DarkCloud 2, it was just amazing and fun.

That is the only game, ever, out of the thousands of games I have played over my life, in which I ENJOYED the crafting system. If you made gw2s crafting like that, or even took it as a base and improved upon it, you wouldn’t have to force me to craft by putting me at a severe stat disadvantage if I don’t, I would craft willingly and likely frequently.

Hi Conncept,

I haven’t had the chance to play this game, but I will definitely check with the team to see who has and look into the design of the system. Thanks for the pointing it out.

Chris

It is 10:11pm where we are (-:

Chris

videoboy.4162:

Chris,

Before I really get into this CDI, I was wondering. Is there any info you can give us about the much-wanted Skin Wardrobe? I know I’ve watched an interview where Colin said that it was something ANet fel was really missing from the game.

- Is this an idea that is actually possible to add to the game?
- If so, is it something that would take a very long time to create?
- what are you personal thoughts on the idea?

I realize that you may not be able to answer all of those questions, but would you be willing to address this desired addition in some way?

It is an idea that we are certainly very fond of (-:

Chris

Quick update to let you all know that I am keeping up to date on the thread and will do a summary and join the discussion tomorrow.

Chris

Really good start to this topic folks. Excellent discussion, and really good ideas.

I am blown away, thanks everyone you have made my day. I love the CDI and so far this is a really good example of how I imagine it should be.

Romo regarding your last post I am going to spend some time thinking about how you feel and get back to you if that’s ok?

Chris

Wow….so the plan to do a summary every 3 pages (-: Well i think i am going to try and do one everyday starting with tomorrow in regard to this topic. Some great ideas and conversation so far, and lots and lots of it. Keep it up.

Chris

TheDaiBish.9735:

Felbryn.5462:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The two main areas for discussion will be Horizontal and Vertical progression, however please understand that the commentary and ideation we are really looking for regarding vertical is around its accessibility in game.

I’m not sure I understand this bit; could you clarify?

Basically:

• How easy it is to attain the Ascended gear?
• Is the balance of acquisition of Ascended out of whack between different game-modes (i.e. Easier in PvE than WvW, easier in the open world than it’s intended game mode [Fractals])?

Couldn’t have said it better myself DaiBish. Thanks.

Chris

Felbryn.5462:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The two main areas for discussion will be Horizontal and Vertical progression, however please understand that the commentary and ideation we are really looking for regarding vertical is around its accessibility in game.

I’m not sure I understand this bit; could you clarify?

Hi,

To clarify I am looking forward to hearing the communities thoughts on speed of acquisition such as how long crafting time takes? or drop rates in fractals and other areas of the game etc.

I hope this adds some clarity.

Chris

Hello Fellow Collaborators,

Welcome to the last CDI topic of 2013. In this topic we will be discussing Character Progression. The CDI rules are as follows:

Rules
1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

We will be talking about both horizontal and vertical progression and I hope we can stay focused on what is in game now and what we would like to see in the future.

The two main areas for discussion will be Horizontal and Vertical progression, however please understand that the commentary and ideation we are really looking for regarding vertical is around its accessibility in game.

Finally please note this is not a competition either between yourselves or the developers in regard to one up man ship. The point of this Initiative is to work together to make the game better.

Note: We will disclose the ideas we do or don’t like as a group but we will not discuss schedules or timing around implementation. If there is still concern surrounding how seriously we take community collaboration then please do take the time to think about how much impact the community has had on the working of this game over the year.

Here is a summary by the Lost Witch:

CDI Dev post recap: part 1
CDI Dev post recap: part 2
CDI Dev post recap: part 3

And a discussion about the thread on Massively!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/17/flameseeker-chronicles-we-will-control-guild-wars-2s-horizonta/

Chris

Webba.3071:

Chris, copying this over from an old CDI thread in case you missed it. Given the OPs question it seemed relevant.

Webba.3071:

I dont know if this is the right place to post this but its the best I could find, which in itself is relevant to the suggestion I would like to make.

It seems that CDI does not have a home, so to speak, but is spread out across the various forums the different threads are related to. This makes sense, but for someone who doesn’t visit the forums everyday its quite difficult and time consuming to find where the various threads are.

I would suggest a stickied post in the suggestions forum listing all the CDI threads, current and completed, in chronological order and with a short paragraph describing the purpose and contents of each.

This would allow participants very convenient access to any topic they might want to contribute too or read up on without requiring you to move any existing threads or reorganize anything else on the forums. It might also help people to grasp the big picture of CDI, which might help them appreciate what you are trying to achieve with it, something that is hard to see if you only see one or two threads every now and then.

I think this is a good idea to and we will do something in this spirit early next year. My only concern is folks not seeing the thread and thus not getting involved.

Looking at my schedule today it is likely i will post the topic tomorrow. Sorry for the delay but i want to give the topic my full attention.

Chris

Hi Finnway,

This will be the last CDI of the year as the topic applies to WvW, PVE and PVP, and also we can take the extra time to keep it open for a while over the holiday period.

Exciting!

Chris

Hi All,

I have been extremely busy today and probably will be tomorrow, hence the thread not existing yet. I will try to get it there tomorrow and if not Friday.

Thanks for your comments around the proposed title. The topic will focus on Character Progression within GW2. Whilst Ascended Gear will obviously be part of that conversation I don’t want it all to be about that, hence not including it in the title.

The focus of this thread is about evolving the game through design philosophical discussion with evolving being the key word in my sentence. Thus I hope we discuss all types of progression, what has worked, what hasn’t and then brainstorming progression moving forward.

Cheers

Chris

Hi All,

Happy Wintersday! The next CDI topic will be starting tomorrow and will be housed on this forum. The topic will be around Player Progression: Horizontal vs Vertical Progression.

Looking forward to discussing this topic with you all.

Chris

Hi All,

I will be chatting with Izzy, JC and Devon this morning to see when they would like to wrap up. The next thread will be around Horizontal and Vertical progression and will depend timing wise on Izzy and Devon’s decision.

Note we won’t be doing another Process evolution until the next topic is discussed.

Chris

rodadams.5963:

Are we allowed to talk about how the Commander system impacts with PvE as well?

Absolutely.

Chris

Hi All,

I have just posted this on the WvW and PVE forums. I am sure John will have his own concluding statements and it is up to him if he wants to run another thread on Monday for PvP:

First of all thanks to everyone for their comments and feedback. We have completed another round of learning and a new phase!

Secondarily i wanted to summarize the actions that we will be taking moving forward, which are as follows:

1: More Focused Topics! (Done!)
2: Build out more time for Devs to engage (This is already in progress)
3: Thread owner to post a summary every three pages
4: Post writers should aim to be concise and to the point using examples where necessary.

Thirdly we have our new topic: Commander Functionality which will be discussed on the WvW forums ensuring that the community members in this area are able to see a better example of the initiative in action (fingers crossed). This thread will go live Monday.

Once again, thanks everyone and I hope you having a great weekend.

Chris

First of all thanks to everyone for their comments and feedback. We have completed another round of learning and a new phase!

Secondarily i wanted to summarize the actions that we will be taking moving forward, which are as follows:

1: More Focused Topics! (Done!)
2: Build out more time for Devs to engage (This is already in progress)
3: Thread owner to post a summary every three pages
4: Post writers should aim to be concise and to the point using examples where necessary.

Thirdly we have our new topic: Commander Functionality which will be discussed on the WvW forums ensuring that the community members in this area are able to see a better example of the initiative in action (fingers crossed). This thread will go live Monday.

Once again, thanks everyone and I hope you having a great weekend.

Chris

First of all thanks to everyone for their comments and feedback. We have completed another round of learning and a new phase!

Secondarily i wanted to summarize the actions that we will be taking moving forward, which are as follows:

1: More Focused Topics! (Done!)
2: Build out more time for Devs to engage (This is already in progress)
3: Thread owner to post a summary every three pages
4: Post writers should aim to be concise and to the point using examples where necessary.

Thirdly we have our new topic: Commander Functionality which will be discussed on the WvW forums ensuring that the community members in this area are able to see a better example of the initiative in action (fingers crossed). This thread will go live Monday.

Once again, thanks everyone and I hope you having a great weekend.

Chris

videoboy.4162:

Lheimroo.2947:

videoboy.4162:

Chris,

Do you think that it would be possible to have a CDI with the Art Team on occasion? I think it would be fun to talk to them about armor and learn how they choose what to add, as well as learn what isn’t possible for them to do.

I think that’d be more suitable to an AMA-style event. I’m not terribly certain the average player could give really useful criticisms to the graphic artists and 3-d modelers. That would have to be far more technical in tone, y’know?

I wasn’t really thinking that such a topic would be on the same scale as the CDIs have been so far. I just think it would be nice to be able to communicate with the artists in the same way that we’ve been conversing with Chris and Bobby.

It would be nice to get some official answers to some of the armor questions that people have ben curious about.

Hi Video,

I will speak to Daniel about it and see what he thinks.

Hope you have had a good day.

Chris

daros.3407:

Reesha.7901:

daros.3407:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

We will be moving forward on Monday with the topic of Commander Functionality which will be housed in the WvW forums. I believe this to be the right approach at this time to ensure that the WvW CDI participants get a focused experience of the spirit of the initiative and how it is intended to work.

Following a week on this topic I will appraise how things went and decide what paradigm we will be moving forward with.

Either tomorrow or Friday i will list the CDI Evolution actions.

Thank you all for you comments and participation and I am looking forward to discussing the next topic with you all.

Chris

So you really want to discuss only one topic per week? I dont think it is good idea becouse it will just delay discussions about other same important topics. We should move forward not delay.

I am fairly sure what Chris means, is that there will be one topic for wvw now, because the previous one was a bit disappointing, and he wants to give the WvW CDI participants a “focused experience of the spirit of the initiative and how it is intended to work”.

After the one week (and with the experienced gained within the week), he will decide whether to continue with one or three topics at a time.

Yes can respect that. I just fear it may be less productive to run only one thread.

Hi,

I think it is worthwhile to do a single WvW focused topic with the appropriate coverage from Devs so we are all up to speed on the process and are able to connect appropriately.

Chris

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wish you and your family a pleasant Thanksgiving Holiday, whether you celebrate it or not. Maybe you enjoy American football….or maybe not! Lol.

Thanks for all your hard work!

Well said Inculpatus! Happy Thanksgiving to you All!

Chris

Pasted from the PVE thread.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wish you and your family a pleasant Thanksgiving Holiday, whether you celebrate it or not. Maybe you enjoy American football….or maybe not! Lol.

Thanks for all your hard work!

Well said Inculpatus! Happy Thanksgiving to you All!

Chris

Hi All,

We will be moving forward on Monday with the topic of Commander Functionality which will be housed in the WvW forums. I believe this to be the right approach at this time to ensure that the WvW CDI participants get a focused experience of the spirit of the initiative and how it is intended to work.

Following a week on this topic I will appraise how things went and decide what paradigm we will be moving forward with.

Either tomorrow or Friday i will list the CDI Evolution actions.

Thank you all for you comments and participation and I am looking forward to discussing the next topic with you all.

Chris

Spawne.3128:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

StriderShinryu.6923:

I’ve already spoken my piece on the 1 thread VS 3 threads question. Honestly, while I would prefer 3 threads (or even just 3 topics without a need to keep it specifically to the 3 “core” areas of the game), it really comes down to what ANet can do. We need real interaction in these threads moving forward and if the only way ANet can do that is to limit it to one thread at a time, then that’s probably the way to go.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

FYI: Keeping you up to date (-:

Jocksy.3415:
Chris Whiteside.6102:
Would you like us to discuss Population Imbalance again and then follow with Commander functionality?

I would like to know / feel that the discussions of the pop imbalance thread are not just useless venting, but that some kind of action is going to be taken… If the only point of CDI is discussing, and nothing is actually being done… It’s a loss of time both for the players who give ideas and for the devs who are reading through it all.
We need some feedback on the previous CDI before we start another one on the same topic. We need to know what might be possible and what is off limit.

Absolutely true. Without openness and willingness to involve players in the planning and design elements of the game, the CDI is pretty much a waste of time for everyone involved. Or, even if there are actual tangible results, with no known time frames and no clarity, there is certainly the appearance of it being a waste of time.

Hi Strider,

The CDI is a GW2 design discussion whereby our philosophies and ideas will evolve. We will not be going into any planning details. I am sorry if this gives the ‘impression’ that the exercise is a waste of time, i can only assure you that it is not, and over time the proof will be in the pudding as they say.

Chris

I believe what Strider was trying to put into context was that people are looking for some sort okittennowledge by the dev team that the suggestions they are making are in fact valid, and what sort of opinions or ideas you guys have at your round table and hope to put forward in the near future to appease all of these diverse opinions.

Without any sort of public acknowledgement of how our opinions are being interpreted, it makes people feel as though they are wasting their breath. Especially given the public reaction of the past 3 living story and content updates.

Hi Spawne,

Ah if that was indeed the case then i stand corrected and would like to point out that we did indeed do what you stated in the last PVE thread. We will talk about what we like and what we don’t think will work (with reasoning) and we will call it out when there has been a change in philosophy or an action. We just won’t go into detail about time frame etc.

I apologize Strider if i misunderstood you and thanks for calling this out Spawne.

Chris

Hi All,

We will be moving forward on Monday with the topic of Commander Functionality which will be housed in the WvW forums. I believe this to be the right approach at this time to ensure that the WvW CDI participants get a focused experience of the spirit of the initiative and how it is intended to work.

Following a week on this topic I will appraise how things went and decide what paradigm we will be moving forward with.

Either tomorrow or Friday i will list the CDI Evolution actions.

Thank you all for your comments and participation and I am looking forward to discussing the next topic with you all.

Chris

StriderShinryu.6923:

I’ve already spoken my piece on the 1 thread VS 3 threads question. Honestly, while I would prefer 3 threads (or even just 3 topics without a need to keep it specifically to the 3 “core” areas of the game), it really comes down to what ANet can do. We need real interaction in these threads moving forward and if the only way ANet can do that is to limit it to one thread at a time, then that’s probably the way to go.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

FYI: Keeping you up to date (-:

Jocksy.3415:
Chris Whiteside.6102:
Would you like us to discuss Population Imbalance again and then follow with Commander functionality?

I would like to know / feel that the discussions of the pop imbalance thread are not just useless venting, but that some kind of action is going to be taken… If the only point of CDI is discussing, and nothing is actually being done… It’s a loss of time both for the players who give ideas and for the devs who are reading through it all.
We need some feedback on the previous CDI before we start another one on the same topic. We need to know what might be possible and what is off limit.

Absolutely true. Without openness and willingness to involve players in the planning and design elements of the game, the CDI is pretty much a waste of time for everyone involved. Or, even if there are actual tangible results, with no known time frames and no clarity, there is certainly the appearance of it being a waste of time.

Hi Strider,

The CDI is a GW2 design discussion whereby our philosophies and ideas will evolve. We will not be going into any planning details. I am sorry if this gives the ‘impression’ that the exercise is a waste of time, i can only assure you that it is not, and over time the proof will be in the pudding as they say.

Chris

FYI: Keeping you up to date (-:

Jocksy.3415:
Chris Whiteside.6102:
Would you like us to discuss Population Imbalance again and then follow with Commander functionality?

I would like to know / feel that the discussions of the pop imbalance thread are not just useless venting, but that some kind of action is going to be taken… If the only point of CDI is discussing, and nothing is actually being done… It’s a loss of time both for the players who give ideas and for the devs who are reading through it all.
We need some feedback on the previous CDI before we start another one on the same topic. We need to know what might be possible and what is off limit.

Example, people mentioned that transfers should be calculated according to WvW population, instead of PvE, since PvE is not necessarily on the home world, thus people transfer mainly for WvW.

People also mentioned graphics about queue times being published in the past, so that people can know how long they can expect to wait for a given map on a given time.

It has been mentioned that servers should be made international.
It has been mentioned that people from stacked server should get free transfers to needing servers

Some mentioned servers less active in WvW shouldn’t get less bonus, but more, so that people are more likely to select these low WvW activity servers…

Some of these ideas were just mentionned, some were discussed in lenght amongst the players, but all we heard was “this idea is off the table” not “that idea is interesting”, nor, “as is, this idea cannot be applied, we might tweak it this or that way, so that it might work, what do you think?”

This leaves us people who care about population imbalance with a bitter taste in the mouth – nothing we say is considered, it’s just “swept under the rug”.
So, before deciding whether yet another population imbalance CDI must be made, we need to know if it is useful…

(By the way, thanks for your presence here and now – but if multiple CDI threads are launched at the same time, the input you can give on one subject is going to be limited – And there is just not enough WvW Devs to ensure their activity – and they obviously just take part in it because they were told to. I’d rather have one discussion per week that is fulfilling, than three that leaves one unanswered)

In regard to your edit Jocksy i think it may be at least worthwhile really putting a lot of effort into the next WvW thread to show exactly how CDI can work. For that to happen i would like to be involved alongside Izzy and that would mean that we would run the next WvW topic on its own and then go back to 3 topics running concurrently following this.
Thanks a lot for your thoughts, i really appreciate the passion and engagement.
Chris

Jocksy.3415:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Would you like us to discuss Population Imbalance again and then follow with Commander functionality?

I would like to know / feel that the discussions of the pop imbalance thread are not just useless venting, but that some kind of action is going to be taken… If the only point of CDI is discussing, and nothing is actually being done… It’s a loss of time both for the players who give ideas and for the devs who are reading through it all.

We need some feedback on the previous CDI before we start another one on the same topic. We need to know what might be possible and what is off limit.

Example, people mentioned that transfers should be calculated according to WvW population, instead of PvE, since PvE is not necessarily on the home world, thus people transfer mainly for WvW.
People also mentioned graphics about queue times being published in the past, so that people can know how long they can expect to wait for a given map on a given time.
It has been mentioned that servers should be made international.
It has been mentioned that people from stacked server should get free transfers to needing servers
Some mentioned servers less active in WvW shouldn’t get less bonus, but more, so that people are more likely to select these low WvW activity servers…
Some of these ideas were just mentionned, some were discussed in lenght amongst the players, but all we heard was “this idea is off the table” not “that idea is interesting”, nor, “as is, this idea cannot be applied, we might tweak it this or that way, so that it might work, what do you think?”
This leaves us people who care about population imbalance with a bitter taste in the mouth – nothing we say is considered, it’s just “swept under the rug”.

So, before deciding whether yet another population imbalance CDI must be made, we need to know if it is useful…

(By the way, thanks for your presence here and now – but if multiple CDI threads are launched at the same time, the input you can give on one subject is going to be limited – And there is just not enough WvW Devs to ensure their activity – and they obviously just take part in it because they were told to. I’d rather have one discussion per week that is fulfilling, than three that leaves one unanswered)

In regard to your edit Jocksy i think it may be at least worthwhile really putting a lot of effort into the next WvW thread to show exactly how CDI can work. For that to happen i would like to be involved alongside Izzy and that would mean that we would run the next WvW topic on its own and then go back to 3 topics running concurrently following this.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts, i really appreciate the passion and engagement.

Chris

Jocksy.3415:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Would you like us to discuss Population Imbalance again and then follow with Commander functionality?

I would like to know / feel that the discussions of the pop imbalance thread are not just useless venting, but that some kind of action is going to be taken… If the only point of CDI is discussing, and nothing is actually being done… It’s a loss of time both for the players who give ideas and for the devs who are reading through it all.

We need some feedback on the previous CDI before we start another one on the same topic. We need to know what might be possible and what is off limit.

Example, people mentioned that transfers should be calculated according to WvW population, instead of PvE, since PvE is not necessarily on the home world, thus people transfer mainly for WvW.
People also mentioned graphics about queue times being published in the past, so that people can know how long they can expect to wait for a given map on a given time.
It has been mentioned that servers should be made international.
It has been mentioned that people from stacked server should get free transfers to needing servers
Some mentioned servers less active in WvW shouldn’t get less bonus, but more, so that people are more likely to select these low WvW activity servers…
Some of these ideas were just mentionned, some were discussed in lenght amongst the players, but all we heard was “this idea is off the table” not “that idea is interesting”, nor, “as is, this idea cannot be applied, we might tweak it this or that way, so that it might work, what do you think?”
This leaves us people who care about population imbalance with a bitter taste in the mouth – nothing we say is considered, it’s just “swept under the rug”.

So, before deciding whether yet another population imbalance CDI must be made, we need to know if it is useful…

(By the way, thanks for your presence here and now – but if multiple CDI threads are launched at the same time, the input you can give on one subject is going to be limited – And there is just not enough WvW Devs to ensure their activity – and they obviously just take part in it because they were told to. I’d rather have one discussion per week that is fulfilling, than three that leaves one unanswered)

I would suggest taking the time to read my posts on the PVE Living World topic to understand how seriously i take the CDI and how it does impact development through mind share and evolution of design philosophy. I agree that the first WvW thread could have been managed better and that we are working hard to ensure this doesn’t happen again.

CDI is not an exercise in trying to placate the community by having a place where they can vent at Devs. If it were to become this i would shut down the initiative.

It is instead an exercise in education on both sides and then evolution of design philosophy with the goal of making Guild Wars 2 the very best online world it can be.

Chris

Dream In A Dream.7213:

I think doing commander functionality discussion this week is a good idea. Can we do this and then switch back to pop imbalance one? This way people and devs have a week of rest from a very hard topic and we might actually get some useful wvw progress with commander discussion. Pop imbalance is still a major issue, but keeping this discussion going extra week isnt going to help. Better to take a week break and come back to it with a fresh look.

Very interesting idea.

Chris

I am thinking we will go with three topics. I will make a decision on this today.

Chris

Would you like us to discuss Population Imbalance again and then follow with Commander functionality?

I am afraid i did not follow the original WvW thread due to concentrating on the Living World topic. I would like to hear your thoughts on this and then i will make a decision later today on how we move forward.

Chris

Well i certainly understand where your coming from. So the other option is to run 3 on Monday and we go in knowing that we still have some way to go in terms of us all getting everything right in terms of the spirit of the initiative.

I am happy to do this to. Thoughts?

Chris

Nike.2631:

I’m bummed that the rate of CDI activity is getting cut to 1/3 of its initial vision- especially after seeing what I feel were most of the weaknesses of the initial launch detected, dissected, and likely resolved (or at least greatly improved) in this thread. If we have to crawl before we can walk, ok, but I’ll always be wishing we could get to the point where process dances even if it means another 1/3 or 1/2 of the threads fall short along the way.

I worry that with all the eggs in one basket, we risk having one bad mis-step or failed attempt make the whole process look bad because there’s only one thread at a time. It really restricts the rate at which we can detect problems and improve the process and it cuts the actual collaboration off to a trickle of what it could be.

Well i certainly understand where your coming from. So the other option is to run 3 on Monday and we go in knowing that we still have some way to go in terms of us all getting everything right in terms of the spirit of the initiative.

I am happy to do this to. Thoughts?

Chris

HI Folks,

I just posted this on the PVE forum. I am keen to finish of our current phase and get going, so let us know if you agree with this proposal:

’So Izzy has joined in on the WvW thread and would like to discuss Commander Functionality which impacts WvW and could potentially be used effectively in PVE content. I therefore propose the following:

1: We work on one topic at a time (for the time being). In a rotation of WvW, PvP and then PVE.

2: The WvW topic will be Commander functionality.

3: We will also discuss potential Commander functionality as it relates to PVE.

4: The discussion will be housed in the WvW area.

Unless we have major disagreement then we will go ahead with this.

Tomorrow i will summarize our actions for evolution of the CDI process and on Monday our next topic will begin.

Quite honestly i am looking forward to getting back to topic discussion (-:

Note: New topics will be chosen during the CDI Process Evolution phase once we finish the next topic rotation.

Chris’

Chris

So Izzy has joined in on the WvW thread and would like to discuss Commander Functionality which impacts WvW and could potentially be used effectively in PVE content. I therefore propose the following:

1: We work on one topic at a time (for the time being). In a rotation of WvW, PvP and then PVE.
2: The WvW topic will be Commander functionality.
3: We will also discuss potential Commander functionality as it relates to PVE.
4: The discussion will be housed in the WvW area.

Unless we have major disagreement then we will go ahead with this.

Tomorrow i will summarize our actions for evolution of the CDI process and on Monday our next topic will begin.

Quite honestly i am looking forward to getting back to topic discussion (-:

Note: New topics will be chosen during the CDI Process Evolution phase once we finish the next topic rotation.

Chris

Speaking of which i am going to close the thread on Living World. It was extremely useful but the topic heading is to obtuse.

Chris

Hi All,

I just posted this on the WvW forums:

‘Sounds like we want devs to pick topics based on a short vote during the CDI process evolution phase.
I vote at this time that we discuss Commander functionality next as it also impacts PVE. This topic however would be discussed in the WvW forums.
Regarding your question Cactus i will ask DC to do a summary of valuable points garnered from the discussion. He is however away for the holiday so we should be patient in that regard in terms of a reply.
Chris’

Chris

Sounds like we want devs to pick topics based on a short vote during the CDI process evolution phase.

I vote at this time that we discuss Commander functionality next as it also impacts PVE. This topic however would be discussed in the WvW forums.

Regarding your question Cactus i will ask DC to do a summary of valuable points garnered from the discussion. He is however away for the holiday so we should be patient in that regard in terms of a reply.

Chris

Reesha.7901:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘Do the other Devs share your passion for CDI, or will this become part of their job description?’

I think so yes, however i think they are still anxious around entering into the public arena (they are after all human and have emotions) and are still finding their feet like everyone else is in this new initiative.
Chris

Awww. I hope they will find the overall experience to be positive.
I think the majority of the posts, in both this and the Living Stoty topic, have been constructive so far.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I still have some questions:

If each area (WvW, PvP, PvE) has their own ‘owner’ and set of Devs, why must each area wait to have topics (only one area active at a time)?

Will CDI threads be closed once the week (or whatever time alloted to each) is over? (The Living World/Story thread is still open.) If not, will there still be collaboration in said threads? If so, again, why no overlapping threads? If not, I am unsure how much collaborating might go on in the thread.

Are you, Chris, the owner of each area’s thread? If so, I can understand why only one area’s thread is open at a time, but, unless I misunderstood, I thought each area (WvW, PvP, PvE) has their own ‘owners’ and associated Dev team. If you are the ‘owner’ of all, I think that is a lot on your plate. Thank you for your dedication to this project. =)

Do the other Devs share your passion for CDI, or will this become part of their job description? Does everyone have enough time to keep up with (possibly) hundreds of posts about hot topics?

Just a few of the questions that have occured to me about this process.

Again, thank you for your time. =)

And thanks for your time to Inc we appreciate it.

A quick answer to your question here:

‘Do the other Devs share your passion for CDI, or will this become part of their job description?’

I think so yes, however i think they are still anxious around entering into the public arena (they are after all human and have emotions) and are still finding their feet like everyone else is in this new initiative. There is no concern however about the team wanting to build a better and more productive relationship with the community to enable us to continue to pioneer with GW2 with a better understanding of how we are progressing and where we are going as a group.

Chris

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I still have some questions:

If each area (WvW, PvP, PvE) has their own ‘owner’ and set of Devs, why must each area wait to have topics (only one area active at a time)?

Will CDI threads be closed once the week (or whatever time alloted to each) is over? (The Living World/Story thread is still open.) If not, will there still be collaboration in said threads? If so, again, why no overlapping threads? If not, I am unsure how much collaborating might go on in the thread.

Are you, Chris, the owner of each area’s thread? If so, I can understand why only one area’s thread is open at a time, but, unless I misunderstood, I thought each area (WvW, PvP, PvE) has their own ‘owners’ and associated Dev team. If you are the ‘owner’ of all, I think that is a lot on your plate. Thank you for your dedication to this project. =)

Do the other Devs share your passion for CDI, or will this become part of their job description? Does everyone have enough time to keep up with (possibly) hundreds of posts about hot topics?

Just a few of the questions that have occured to me about this process.

Again, thank you for your time. =)

Hi Inculpatus,

I think under this proposal i would own each of the threads from a topic management standpoint and that the devs in each area would then have more time to contribute. This would allow me to handle the logistics side of the threads and the devs to concentrate on the fun stuff (collaborating with you guys).

Another reason i like this idea is that it would be give me time to read up on all the different areas of discussion and thus be better informed.

Chris

HI Vi Au,

‘Is it possible to add a second thread during the 3 day CDI process evolution to “vote” on potential topic?’

Yes i think that would be a good idea. Many have said that they would like us to pass on skill lag with the next in the list being Commander functionality. If we went with this then after the 3 area topics close and we do the next Process Evolution we could vote again.

However it was also put forward by quite a few people that the Dev team should choose the topics for each area, specifically in regard to the most pressing topics for us in terms of working together through the CDI.

Personally i think their are pros and cons with both options but i would like us to make a decision about that action following the decision around area topic cadence.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I have asked the PVE thread if they want to move ahead with the proposal of 1 topic running at a time with a week of conversation around it. Once 3 topics have concluded (1 for each area) then we would have say 3 days of a single CDI process evolution thread and then back to the next topic.

Do we feel like this is a good cadence to move forward with?

Note this should accelerate our combined experience with the CDI and thus does not preclude us all deciding to change the model should we find that we are at a point to do so.

Chris

Also note that i think if we move forward with this proposal that the first area topic would be in WvW, then PvP and then back to PVE.

Chris

I have asked the PVE thread if they want to move ahead with the proposal of 1 topic running at a time with a week of conversation around it. Once 3 topics have concluded (1 for each area) then we would have say 3 days of a single CDI process evolution thread and then back to the next topic.

Do we feel like this is a good cadence to move forward with?

Note this should accelerate our combined experience with the CDI and thus does not preclude us all deciding to change the model should we find that we are at a point to do so.

Chris

Once we reach a conclusion on CDI topic cadence i will put a summary up of actions i think we should take to evolve the process based on our conversations and then move on.

Huzzah!

Chris

Reesha.7901:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Reesha,

So one topic per week with a process evolution thread at the end of a 3 topic cycle?

Chris

Some think like that, yes.
I don’t think the one topic at a time necessarily has to be set in stone forever.
However, I think this initiative of yours is so promising and that the collaboration aspect of it means a lot. Especially where we are right now (in the early stage).

By that I mean: I think it is important that you can focus on one topic at a time.
You mentioned earlier that you were struggling for time and saw some interesting thoughts in one topic but didn’t have the time to dive deeper into the discussion.

Maybe it becomes easier over time as both players and developers gets more experience with collaborative development topics: Maybe then it becomes easier to have several topics running at the same time. Time will tell.

And yes to the process evolution thread at the end of a 3 topic cycle as well

Some great points thanks Reesha, especially the point about the CDI evolving to the point it becomes easier through our combined experiences with it.

Therefore i think this proposal is sound and i would like to hear any further arguments against it in case we may have missed anything?

Chris

Reesha.7901:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Inculpatas,

Regarding the discussion about one thread at a time. The advantage for us currently is that the team could concentrate on one topic at a time rather than having three threads to keep up with and therefore have more time to get involved. It would also allow me to enter the discussion of the threads in different areas. Note i am still undecided about this particular discussion. I to am very worried about the time it would take to rotate between topics and for this reason alone that could be a big enough con to not move forward with the above proposal.

Since I suggested the one topic at a time back at page 3 somewhere, I still strongly believe that the pros, of only having one topic up at a time, outweighs the cons greatly.

Would it maybe be an idea to limit the period of time in which the specified topic is open?

I mean, the living story is an ongoing topic still. Last post was around 5 hours ago and the topic opened 28 days ago. With more focus on one area only, from both players and developers, would 2 weeks not be a realistic goal?

I can only speak for myself off course, but:
If one collaborate topic is open in either PVE, PVP or WvW for a 2 week period and if I only wish to comment on PVE: Then I never have to wait more than a month for a collaborate topic in the PVE section. To me, that would be more than acceptable.

Hi Reesha,

So one topic per week with a process evolution thread at the end of a 3 topic cycle?

Chris

gidorah.4960:

DevonCarver.5370:

As for posting frequency, it is always the case that our first responsibility is to the game and the continued production of the features and content.

I just think its odd that you are the only busy person at anet. While you where doing a terrible job here there was a active and productive discussion going on in pve and pvp and in each and every class forum. Unless you are saying that everyone else in the company has tons of free time and you alone don’t you probably owe us a better explanation.

Simply put Devon has been extremely busy of late (Edge of Mists etc) and you will note that many of my posts have been outside of work hours. This is my choice and not something i ask of my design team.

We are working to improve the time we can dedicate to the CDI and if we feel that we can’t appropriate more then it may be best to move to 1 CDI thread at a time.

Chris