Guild Wars 2

bradderzh.2378:

Chris,

Any opinions on nike’s TIDES dynamic map idea?

Hi,

I do have opinions (-: however i have lost some time today that i thought i had. Basically i want to feedback on the DE discussion and get more time to read what people liked and didn’t like about the events they have played. With this is mind it would be awesome for these discussions to continue if folks still have anymore insights or discussion points?

And as soon as i get some more time i will get into the discussion again.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I’d stated that you were prioritizing release dates over quality. I get that you guys have every intention to release quality content. You’re all very passionate and committed to what you do, and you obviously want to create things that people enjoy.

However, allow me to make an observation. I’ve noticed that when you discuss future content or features (other than Living Story), you never commit to a release date. My understanding was that this is because game design can be unpredictable: things change, features may not work exactly as you intended, bugs may pop up, or it may simply take more time to polish a feature for release than you intended. And you don’t want to release content before it is ready, hence…you never commit to a release date.

Except for when it comes to Living Story.

Suddenly, every two weeks, just like clockwork, there it is. Right on schedule. How, then, can it be that your priority is on the quality of the release, when you are committed to releasing it on a specific date no matter what?

If you are saying that you now have the ability to make sure that content is ready by a specific date, then surely you have the ability to commit to dates for all your releases (not just Living Story). But of course, we know that this isn’t the case.

So while you may want quality, it certainly isn’t your priority. It can’t be. Not on a specific release schedule. It’s impossible.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.

I would be really interested to know what you guys are doing to meet my concerns regarding the cadence. Because I honestly have no idea how you can do that while simultaneously stating that the cadence will continue unaltered no matter what any of us says.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

I’m curious as to what these discussions are like. When you are having these discussions, does it ever come up that many people are vigorously opposed to it? Or is it the impression of the team that the current cadence is both popular and desired? If so, do you have any metrics to back this up?

Finally, a simple question:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

everyone keeps bringing up the release schedule even after you have said it is non negotiable this is the best written post expressing our concerns and questions about it.

At no point did i say it is non negotiable . I said that currently we have no intention of changing the plan, however if we feel that we cannot reach the quality bar we and the player’s expect under the current cadence then we will evolve to ensure we are giving player’s the best possible experience. We have a lot of areas we can improve in to meet this goal and I personally would like to see us continue to work in improving in these areas.

Note: I have specifically laid out these areas in my posts.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

do you think you can still save the arc from the poor opinions of scarlet? will you continue with scarlet even if the player still hate her? will you ever give us a poll so bobby can stop calling the people who dislike scarlet a small amount?

I think we have learnt a great deal from where we are now with the Scarlet Arc. I won’t talk about future plans for her i am afraid as this goes against the rules i set for this initiative. I appreciate all the feedback in regard to our current story telling foundations and look forward to seeing the game evolve from them.

Chris

rizzo.1079:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

rizzo.1079:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

I think the point is that her story so far is less an arc and more of a line.

Yep i think this point is valid.

Chris

Cool…well that’s honestly my biggest personal gripe with the story so if we’re on the same page here I, for one, am happier than I was before:)

We are on the same page.

Chris

rizzo.1079:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

I think the point is that her story so far is less an arc and more of a line.

Yep i think this point is valid.

Chris

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yep the story needs to more ‘Epic’, meaningful and better at evoking emotion.

Chris

I think this exact quote is what’s really hamstringing your writing team and the direction of the Living Story in general.

You don’t need to chase after Epic – epic is a natural outgrowth of scale.

What you need to focus on is ‘Compelling’.

In Kessex Hills there is a little stand-alone escort event in the Destroyer caves. A child from the nearby town has fallen into the caves and can’t get out. Lead her to safety.

Ok, first off, it’s a little girl and she’s surrounded by monsters that want to eat her. If you’re not a complete sociopath, you’re already committed to the endeavor just to put an end to this outrage. Second, I empathize with her: I fell down that same kitten crack while looking around – that’s how I found her in the first place. The monsters aren’t just after her, we’re totally in this together (yes, I realize I could just waypoint away, but that’s for chumps). Is time to hero up.

The fact that I’m on my rifle-toting engineer and I’m practically screaming lines from Aliens at the screen as we shoot our way out of there ("You want some of this? And you? How about that, come on! blam-blam-blam-blam!) is just a nice bonus.

And did you notice how I said ‘we’ there? She doesn’t do a thing except cower or follow along doggedly, but we are a party now, making our way out of the cave. Because I care.

There is NOTHING in the Scarlett Invasions that comes close to that. Nothing is under threat. Nothing says ‘step up, hero’. It may look EPIC-EPIc-EPic-Epic-epic-epic ((echo effects)), because it’s Big… but it has no heart. It’s a safari for big-game hunters, not a chance for heroism.

Give me a reason to care. I’ll suspend disbelief (no way pointing out just because), I’ll buy in if you let me. But don’t confuse scale with relevance.

Some of the finest victories are small.

Like seeing a little girl make her way home.

Hi,

Just to be clear by epic i am referring to more mature (in some instances), more meaningful, more relevant. Please forgive me for the use of that word it seems to have derailed the conversation somewhat.

Chris

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

—snipped for brevity—

Post like this Cesmode really don’t need to occur. Many of your questions can be answered by keeping up to date with the thread and understanding what the stated goals are of the initiative. I appreciate your feedback and some of your commentary but please understand that this slows the process down and can also derail extremely valuable discussion.

I hope you understand,

chris

Chris,
I do not feel that I am combative in my responses. I have encouraged other folks to be patient with arenanet’s involvement in this thread early on. However, now that it has been 5 days, some of us are wondering when arenanet will become a bit more involved in this collaborative discussion. We just dont want this to become a one way street and turn into every other thread on these forums.

With that said, apologies if it at all detracted from the purpose of the thread. My intent was to try to get your attention so we can have more collaboration in this thread, rather than the players speaking their minds, to which we do every day. If there isnt going to be a lot of discussion between developer and player, then the initiative itself fails and this just becomes another thread. Which, in case, we can refer to the countless threads on the Living Story debate to get the players’ pulse on the subject.

I did see your responses to the numbered items in my post that you previously touched on in the thread, I was simply hoping for a little more back and forth to the main issues

Edit: It looks like theres been some real discussion today(I have been out all day). Good stuff.

Hi Cesmode,

I just got back and caught the end of the Seahawks game!!!

I really appreciate your response Cesmode. Perhaps combative wasn’t the right word and it is great to see such a mature reply. I am reading through yours and the other posts from this morning and am going to spend some time mulling the discussion over. It is very intricate and insightful currently.

I have freed up my early afternoon tomorrow and am looking forward to getting back into the discussion and now i am likely going to jump in game and do a dungeon or two!

Chris

P.S: Go Hawks! Note: I apologize up front for any derailing of the discussion this may cause (-:

Ronah.2869:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So with all of this in mind it would be cool to carry on discussing around this area in much the same form as Nike has. Specifically brainstorming on top of the foundation of known systems and functionality.

Chris

How about rewarding the players who do this brainstorming? Ok, suggestions may come free but brainstorming activities should be rewarded, right?

As far as I am concerned, GW2 is not a finished game and it will never be. it is just lingering around an open beta stage 2 phase where the players take the role of testers every 2 weeks. It kind of reminds me of Firefall where it is still in open beta only that those guys haven’t released 30 zones but only one

Hi Ronah,

Your idea of rewarding CD participation is interesting and we will discuss it in the next phase after the topic threads are closed.

I disagree with your second statement i think (i am a little confused by it). GW2 is an evolving game and Living World is an evolving platform and will continue to be. By it’s very nature it is open ended and working with the community for input, ideas and discussion is one of the key opportunities a developer and community is afforded in the live space.

Chris

Gele.2048:

honestly i dont think we gona make some impact on the living story in generals if u ask me now what was living story before this i dont even remeber even do i have done all of them they are not that good to have that epic feeling and like i had when first time i kill some big raid boss lets sey in wow or in aion there is nothing that leaving impact for me personaly and i like that we have gazlion updates but they are just not good ,difrent arcs all story are epicly shallow its like worst tv show ever i still love gw , and i will always play it but not cuz the living story is good .
And i think its time to place some darkness into the game its to childish .just my opinion hi all .
Darko

Yep the story needs to more ‘Epic’, meaningful and better at evoking emotion.

Chris

Hi,

I also wanted to say thanks to all those who have posted their favorite and least favorite events and also to those like Konig who have responded and discussed based on my ‘discussion’ post that goes into detail on what i thought were some of the main themes. I have blocked out 2 hours tomorrow to carry on the discussion in these two areas with you all.

I am now going to take the family out for some swimming and some lunch and if i get time will get back into discussing these areas before tomorrow. If i don’t get the time today then i will pick it up tomorrow.

Thanks all,

Chris

Lunaire.5827:

Also, @Chris and Anet.

For what it’s worth, Guild Wars is the only MMO I’ve ever played where I actively see changes based on community request, discussions with the community, and company staff actively playing the game.

So while although some of my prior posts may have been critical, it is because I care about the game, and I want you to know that the efforts you have made are appreciated.

Thanks Lunaire. We really do spend an awful lot of time thinking and listening and we fall down on engagement and follow up so that folks know we do hugely value feedback. This comes down to time and an area we are actively trying to improve on. I really appreciate your posts and patience.

Thanks,

Chris

So with all of this in mind it would be cool to carry on discussing around this area in much the same form as Nike has. Specifically brainstorming on top of the foundation of known systems and functionality. I do also want to point out that someone mentioned (sorry i forget who) the ability to potentially build forts etc and then gain new events, goals and rewards from them by protecting and nurturing your land. Wouldn’t that be awesome!?

Chris

Nike.2631:

BobbyStein.2315:

Interesting idea. Can you provide an example of how you would imagine it working?

Inc.4753:

Alright, let’s give it a try:

We escort a charr tank to a certain enemy gate to take it down and invade their base. Upon failure, we could get another event that requires us to get explosives to blow up the gate instead. This event will be harder as the players now have to get close to the gate to drop the explosives. Or, to add a little diversity, an Ash Legion soldier pops up, makes some sniffy remark on how the Iron Legion can’t even keep their own toys in one piece, and offers to take the group via a second, secret (perhaps even previously locked) path into the base.

I like that. Let me generalize the concept and take on the road:

What’s being suggested is adding “second chance” events. Plan A has failed. Rather than just fall back in disarray, we get to try plan B, which is specifically designed to play to a different set of player strengths/builds than plan A did. Frontal assault didn’t work. Here’s a mini-jump puzzle that opens up that gets you to the goal – giving the avid jumper with weaker gear who couldn’t down the doorguards by brute force a way to shine.

Now imagine redoing the entire southern march from Fort Trinity to the Rally Camp with Second Chance technology. Failed to secure the beach for the trebuchets by plowing in all iron-fisted? A pact submarine pops up off shore and you get a second chance to secure it by playing siege gunner from the deck. If either event succeeds, you are able to advance on to the assault on the first island across the bridge.

Later in the chain you have to hold that first island against a counter attack. If you fail, instead of immediately being booted back to the trebuchet beach, you get a second chance event – maybe some sort of footrace to reach a horn that lets you call in an NPC Airstrike so that you end up holding on to the island and can advance to the next stage of the march. Again, giving you a way to showcase an alternate skillset, and a way to not have your progress kicked back because the guy that helped you take the island in the first place wandered off before the counter attack event started.

Second Chances, especially creative ones, would open up a world of heroism and let you actually access the later portions of some of the really long chains, better leveraging the work you’ve already done.

As to implementing DE expansion. If I were king, I’d pick pairs of zones, of radically different level ranges, and focus all the additions in those two zones so that I could announce the introduction not a~

“We added 50 events… somewhere”

But as~

“Things are heating up in Gendarren Fields. Not only have the Centaur attacks taken on a sinister new dimension, but the Inquest has begin probing the Headquarters of the Vigil for weakness. Return to this war-torn frontier in this permanent Living World release and be among the first to raise your sword against the new and renewed enemies of Kryta and Lion’s Arch!”

Hi Nike and All Those that have been discussing Failure Consequences,

Your comments and discussion have been really cool. I picked this post to quote because Nike has put forward some really cool ideas and very much in a Brainstorm fashion.

Internally for a while we now we have been talking about positive and negative consequences of completion or failure of activities and challenges within the game and more specifically around events. For example Jon Peters one of our Design Leads was putting forward the idea of the above rules/paradigms around TQ. So for example if the players are fail to take down TQ then this would cause a ‘Darkness’ to fall across the zone, perhaps where he would fly around attacking locations and creating new events. A second chance on TQ would therefore be to complete these events and then perhaps rally the NPC forces in the zone to help you take him down. A positive modifier could bring ‘Light’ to the land for example and lower cost on NPC traders, give greater rewards from events and perhaps even create new events. Of course this is all brainstorming but it is the natural evolution of our current platform.

We have for example as Nike points out already started down this path with some events in game but we have not extended it further just yet. This is because we try to approach the game from a balanced development standpoint, whereby we aim to take systems, mechanics and features to a point where we are happy with them all before moving onto more sophisticated avenues. I guess the analogy would be that we want to ensure that we build on firm foundations so we are more efficient as we move forward.

(cont.)

Lunaire.5827:

Finnway.2183:

Faowri.4159:

I feel pressured to complete the achievements ASAP so I can get on with the content I would rather be playing,

This summarizes how I feel about achievements in the living story.

I think there should be less achievements (like 5-6) for the meta, and have a separate achievement category for doing LS dailies to earn a bi-weekly chest (just of like dailies and monthlies). This way, players who like to grind will still be rewarded, and players who only have 5 hours to spend can still complete the meta.

I totally agree with this. This way achievement grinders can still have lots of achievements to earn, and people with less time to play can still get involved and earn the limited-time rewards without feeling rushed and pressured.

I agree with this also. We are certainly trying to improve with our achievements in terms of activities, time requirements and rewards. I feel that we have been making good progress but we aren’t quite there yet. Soon though.

Chris

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
So Ive posted more than my fair share in this thread, both asking questions such as “Arenanet, what are your thoughts on utilizing phasing technology” to answering each question/conversation directed statement from arenanet, as well as posting my own ideas, suggestions and criticisms. I think many have done this as well. I have also encouraged others who, early on, questioned the entire purpose of this thread when they have seen very little interaction from arenanet, to be patient in waiting for arenanet’s involvement.

While Bobby Stein has been the most vocal in this thread, I am a bit disappointed that other key folks chime in once or twice and then leave for a few days. The thread has been live for five days with very little interaction and collaborating. Unless the whole point was just to give us a place to collectively talk about one topic where you sit back and gather our opinions passively. However, to that I would simply say “read the forums a bit more, we talk about these this every day”.

Where is the collaboration portion from arenanet? You have our feedback, there are several hot topics that continue to recur such as :

1. Cadence of release too fast
2. Cadence of story too slow and disjointed from each release.
3. Little impact on the world of Tyria, and little impact on your character being a ‘hero’
4. Rewards
5. Success/Failure
—to list a few hot topics…—

Many of us have touched on each of these several times over and on a whole these are hot topics. I understand you are developing the game, but where is arenanets involvement? If you could not devote time to this initiative, better not to start it at all. Otherwise, it just looks like you are attemping to appease the masses by saying
“Hey, heres a thread where we will listen and collaboratively discuss”…Only, you don’t discuss. We do.

Hi Cesmode,

You appear to be very combative in your responses and i would ask that you take a deep breath every so often and approach the initiative in the spirit it was created and take the time to actually read and think about what has been posted.

I say this because each of your points (aside from number 5 which was a request for more discussion and will be added to by me shortly) has actually had commentary on it.

1: I said we plan to move forward as we have been. I later said (and as with everything we do) we will continue to appraise quality of the releases as we continue to improve our deployment with the platform and that if through internal and external discussion we felt that the quality was not meeting the expected level then we would reappraise and evolve.

2: To this point i agreed in my main discussion post and talked about how we would solve this problem moving forward. Specifically by ensuring that LW was at the core of the majority of our releases and that we intend to ensure that arcs have little to no gaps in relation to the macro level story arc.

3: I also talked to this and made it clear that the platform is still in its infancy and that we have to move in a balanced development approach to ensure that we don’t start running before we can walk and that our main focus is ensuring quality and then moving up to the next level of sophistication in regard to what the platform is capable of. I also clearly stated that we want players to shape the world (physically and in terms of the evolving history) and that we needed to make the players more central to an epic story experience, where there needs to be more ‘meaningful’ connection to the world and what goes on within it.

4: Regarding Rewards i also spoke to this saying that we need to have more rewards that ‘celebrate’ the player’s accomplishments that are like rites of passage and that also meet the expectations of time vs. investment.

5: I will be posting on this discussion shortly now that i have had time to read and think about what the community has put forward.

Post like this Cesmode really don’t need to occur. Many of your questions can be answered by keeping up to date with the thread and understanding what the stated goals are of the initiative. I appreciate your feedback and some of your commentary but please understand that this slows the process down and can also derail extremely valuable discussion.

I hope you understand,

chris

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know i am super busy today and will be posting over the weekend. I am very much enjoying the discussion especially around Dynamic Event usage and failure. Thanks for your patience and continued discussion.

Chris

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Chris

the hard adherance to the two week release schedule seems to indicate the opposite. there has clearly been releases that just seem unfinished. Cannach’s lair comes to mind of something that left the majority of players thinking the content was rushed out to meet a 2 week schedule. There have been others but that was the one that comes to mind first. I think its ok to just have a balance patch and delay content that clearly isnt ready so that our enjoyment of great content is merely delayed not ruined by clearly rushed release schedule.

Hi Gidorah,

To be clear we are absolutely focused on quality. We feel that we can have both this cadence and high quality and are continuing to work toward this. If we feel that we cannot reach this balance then of course like everything, we will evolve as necessary. This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.. My point is the current plan is to continue with this cadence.

Chris

Hi Chris,
I have to side with Gidorah on this. You are taking a firm stance on a 2 week cadence when 9/10 posts in this collaborative thread are asking you to slow down the pace of releases. Maybe you are un willing to change the cadence because you have pieces of infrastructure in place, both hardware and manpower, that are designed around a 2 week release schedule and you simply don’t want to undue all of that because it was difficult to put into motion to begin with. Understandable if thats the case, however, the release pace is probably the biggest thing people are harping about in this thread and one of the bigger items on people’s minds concerning Living Story. Thats not a matter of my opinion, I can almost say that as a fact just by reading this thread.

The cadence, for me, is probably the largest issue for me along side of quality of content, which I will touch on. I currently am not playing GW2 because of this and a few other reasons, but am passionate enough to be quite vocal in this thread. Id love to come back, but hearing that Arenanet is taking a hard stance on their release schedule makes me think twice.

At the first least, you should have an internal discussion about it. It would be negligent to simply sweep this one under the rug when it is a top 3 item in this thread(and possibly #1).

Hi Cesmode,

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

Chris

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

also chris any comment on the poor reception of scarlet and when you plan to get rid of her. It seems obvious from this thread that for every 1 person who thinks she is great there is 10 who just get annoyed by her and view her as poorly written deus ex machina. While showing her motivations may lower the ratio she is not a well received villain and it is likely too late to fix that.

Hi Gidorah,

I expect Bobby will speak to this point in more detail.

Chris

bobby already spoke on it and I would love if he went into more detail but surely you have some opinion on it as well?

Fair point Gidorah (-:

I am looking forward to the rest of the arc. There are definitely learnings that i have outlined in my previous post both internally and from the community, but overall i am very excited about what is to come.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Chris

the hard adherance to the two week release schedule seems to indicate the opposite. there has clearly been releases that just seem unfinished. Cannach’s lair comes to mind of something that left the majority of players thinking the content was rushed out to meet a 2 week schedule. There have been others but that was the one that comes to mind first. I think its ok to just have a balance patch and delay content that clearly isnt ready so that our enjoyment of great content is merely delayed not ruined by clearly rushed release schedule.

Hi Gidorah,

To be clear we are absolutely focused on quality. We feel that we can have both this cadence and high quality and are continuing to work toward this. If we feel that we cannot reach this balance then of course like everything, we will evolve as necessary. This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.. My point is the current plan is to continue with this cadence.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

also chris any comment on the poor reception of scarlet and when you plan to get rid of her. It seems obvious from this thread that for every 1 person who thinks she is great there is 10 who just get annoyed by her and view her as poorly written deus ex machina. While showing her motivations may lower the ratio she is not a well received villain and it is likely too late to fix that.

Hi Gidorah,

I expect Bobby will speak to this point in more detail.

Chris

Psycho Robot.7835:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

I’m disappointed to hear this. I don’t see why the development team feels the need to release content so fast. If the content starts being fun, adequately rewarding, polished, and bug free, then there’s obviously no problem with rapid releases, however I doubt that this can be done, and honestly, even if it can be done, I would just wonder how much better it could be if the release schedule were slower.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The Zerg! This is an interesting problem that we had actually fixed to an extent in an earlier release where we created a meta goal that forced players to split up into groups. I really enjoyed this and the feedback was excellent. Personally I quite enjoy the zerg sometimes in PVE ( I tend to be less of a ‘zerger’ in WvW) but I also really enjoy group play in the open world as many of you have mentioned. I would love to see more of this in the open world.

The only thing I could think that you mean by this is Tequatl, since as far back as I can remember, its been zergs. The last releases have been zerging bosses in the crown pavilion, zerging aethers in clockwork chaos, zerging candy corn in blood and madness, and zerging krait in tower of nightmares. Tequatl is really he only LS related content that forced players to split up for even a moment, and even then, you were still required to have 95% of players present all balled up by his right foot. Indeed, having lots of people by the turrets was actually a bad thing, since it scaled up the events and caused champions to spawn. If you’re referring to the battery phases, that was just taking 1 giant zerg and turning it into 4 smaller zergs. Truthfully if you want to address the zerg all you need to do is give enemies attacks that grow more powerful the more people they hit, and to remove the limit on how many players can be hit.

Hi Psycho Robot,

I was referring to the Clockwork Chaos invasions where the meta designs split groups up in order to complete the objective efficiently. Sorry for any confusion.

My point was that whilst it is clear that we are working toward this in the above method and in balancing of individual creatures, i really liked the idea put forward in the thread of even more focus on individual group play in the open world in releases.

Chris

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

Well, I guess that pretty much tells me everything I need to know about the future development of the game. Honestly, I still feel that whoever is in charge of this decision simply does not want to admit that it was a mistake, no matter how many times people say it. But if that is what you’re planning on sticking to… so be it.

I wish you the best of luck. It’s clear that this game is not for me. I just can’t support a game that insists on prioritizing quantity over quality. But at least now I know.

Ah well. Plenty of other games out there.

Hi,

Sorry to hear this Minbariguy. I do want to point out however that as laid out in my post/s. That we intend to continue to improve quality over every release, that internal best working development efficiency will also build toward that and that we have been reducing the amount of time required to complete releases over a period of time already.

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Chris

Part 3

Many of you raised the idea of tying the Living World more deeply into the world of Tyria and also as a deployment tool for enhancing the core of the game. Over the past year we have made many improvements to the core of the game, as part of the releases but not folded into them per se. This is a really interesting idea what we should continue to discuss in this thread and that will be a topic of discussion in the studio. Regarding drilling more into the existing content with Living World is something we have done, are doing now and will continue to evolve moving forward. Related to this many of you talked about making the changes more meaningful to the player’s life within Tyria, all I can say to this is Heck Yeah! This is at the core of what we intend to deliver with the Living World and whilst we have done some work in this area, we are not at a stage yet where we would say that this paradigm is fully functional yet. To create meaningful changes they must impact the day to day of the player and this is at the center of our design philosophy for execution in this area.

As mentioned earlier, we are still building the Living World platform and this is why the Collaborative Development plan exists because discussion of this type is key to course correction and evolution in how the platform is built.

A number of you mentioned consequences for failure. This is something we discuss a lot and is quite complex. I would ask that we continue to discuss this topic in the thread.

With this in mind I also want us to be delivering epic adventures, where we forge the future of Tyria and fight mighty foes. And whilst Bobby has and will continue to discuss the intricacies of this, I want you all to understand that this is very much part of the plan.

Another big topic that was raised was Quality of releases. The work we are doing is new to all of us and therefore we are constantly finding opportunities to improve and course correct in a live environment. This relates not only to bugs, but the understanding of the types of content our community enjoys and how much time you all have to play the content. I believe the quality of our releases are improving and will continue to do so as we hone in our own internal development practices and have a better understanding of how the Living World is performing in the live environment.

Regarding accessibility of releases some great points were brought up ranging from ideas such as a scrying pool or Hall of Memories to get caught up on previous releases. We are very aware of the problems presented by having an ongoing arc and this particular area is an ongoing topic of discussion. Regarding achievements as a method of directing player’s to content, we also agree that there are better ways to do this and you will see with the latest release some innovations in this area.

The Zerg! This is an interesting problem that we had actually fixed to an extent in an earlier release where we created a meta goal that forced players to split up into groups. I really enjoyed this and the feedback was excellent. Personally I quite enjoy the zerg sometimes in PVE ( I tend to be less of a ‘zerger’ in WvW) but I also really enjoy group play in the open world as many of you have mentioned. I would love to see more of this in the open world.

Some of you posted about your favorite releases and least favorite. It would be really cool if you have the time to post your single favorite and least favorite and the reasons why for each. This would help a lot and I will share my learning with you etc. from the posts.

I am running out of time sadly but I did want to make sure that I entered the discussion. I hope the comments have made shed some new light on our approach and thoughts and I am looking forward to enter into proper discussion now. I probably haven’t covered all the areas but no doubt you will raise any I missed (-:

I wanted to say thanks again for being part of this initiative. Personally I think its going to be awesome, it is already impacting our day to day discussion so let’s keep it up!

Chris

P.S: Please forgive me for bad grammar or typos.

Part 2

Regarding rewards relating to the Living World content I agree that we should make greater effort to ensure that time investment is matched by the reward. We have to be careful in this regard due to constraints surrounding our economy but we have already discussed many ways of meeting this goal and maintaining the integrity of the economy. Regarding Living World Meta Achievement rewards, personally I would like to see more rewards that commemorate the accomplishments of my character and my friends, specifically pertaining to the challenges I overcame (Essentially a rite of passage I can show of). Different types of reward take different amounts of time to make and we have been working to organize our reward distribution better so player’s will see more variety moving forward. I also really like the idea of Arc based Meta Achievements.

Many of the community raised the story arc becoming fragmented due to non-related content being released in between events. Again this is something we are aware of and are in agreement with the community on. On top of this we would like to see more incremental attachment to the players in terms of story and how it relates to them through gameplay. This point was raised early on in the thread and is core to making the Living World initiative a success. Personally I feel we have improved Story and Gameplay synergy but certainly we are not where we want to be yet. As we build on the Living World platform in terms of refinement of systems and potentially new technologies it is not hard to see just how much potential the platform has and what can be done with it.

I also agree with the notion of less temporary content where it makes sense to do so. I think that an evolving world by its very nature requires ‘A time in space’ of contextual exposition but this shouldn’t be the bulk of the content. The notion of the Living World and Story Arcs centering around meaningful evolution to the geography of Tyria, the player’s role within the events and their tangible impact on the future of Tyria as an evolving world are key to our direction moving forward. The platform we have built is still in its infancy but I would hope the evolution toward this goal is becoming more and more apparent. We have been working toward more permanent content and will continue to do so.

Part 1

Hi All,

First of thanks for attacking the initiative in the spirit it was laid out. The contribution thus far has been passionate, insightful and very valuable. Much of your commentary and discussions have already been raised in meetings and impacted our thought process around development moving forward already.

As laid out by the rules I will not go into specifics about future development, this said however it is very encouraging to see that much of what has been discussed matches our plans. This fact for many will not come as a revelation as it is clear to see the impact our community has already had on the game since we launched.

So I wanted to share my thoughts with you around the key discussion points (note: Story is something that I will touch upon and that Bobby will continue to discuss in greater detail)

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset. However the points raised around achievements being too time consuming is something that I do acknowledge and something we have already taken steps to address both in terms of overall time to complete and the nature of the repetitive achievements. We will continue to make strides in this area and are aware that the current time requirement also cuts in to the player’s ability to achieve goals in other aspects of the game.

Hi All,

I have freed up some time at lunch tomorrow and will be posting then (This is a very busy week). Keep up the great points and discussions, sorry for the delay in joining in.

For some of the posts above please don’t derail what so far has been a good start.

Chris

Talissa Chan.7208:

Before people start hijacking the post and making it a big argument amongst either players or players vs devs. There’s 14 pages of people who got the concept and are placing their feelings and views. This isn’t a twitter q & a, its a community response.

on that note – I posted earlier but another player bought up a good point, When i do login my first impression of every new content isn’t wow how cool – its “what achievements do i grind out now, what ones do i do later” is there a way to make achieves linked to things like the mini dungeon in hallo? first run through – 25 achieve, get elemental – 25 achieve, second dungeon done – 25 achieve. Rather than grind out 50 doors, eat 500 candy, smash 250 pinatas, kill 25 extremely slow spawning toxic champs. So more story following related achieves rather than just exercises in “do x y times” I’d rather enjoy the content and naturally fall over achieves than be forced into blitzing them all in a day.
Thanks again for your time ^^

I agree Talissa. The topic discussion is going very well and we will have time to discuss enhancing the process for the initiative at the end of every topic phase and in so doing we will get better and better as we move forward.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

It is great to see the discussion evolve. When i get some time i will be posting about the Living World cadence and entering that part of discussion with you all.

With time in mind i don’t think a week is long enough to discuss this topic so we will keep the close date open. At the end of the day i want to make sure we have enough time to discuss the topic with you and not feel rushed.

Chris

i don’t think this discussion thread is what I thought it would be . Where has the collaboration been I see only players bringing up points and the one anet employee who responded has simply explained his view on the situation. there hasn’t been any actual collaborative development. To help this discusion move further could you say what you mean by collaboration and if you think this thread has lived up to what you intended so far?

Hi Gidorah,

The main focus of this initiative is to discuss design philosophies with the community as outlined here in the rules i set out for the topic discussion:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.
2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.
4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

I also want to reiterate this rule:

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

Currently we are keeping up to date with the three threads and posting when we are able to. Bobby has posted in regard to story, Colin has posted in regard to vision and i will be posting about the Cadence of the releases. I am hoping we will be able to discuss many issues with the initiative and we are learning as we go along. One factor is clearly us having the time to post currently, and personally i am building out time to be able to enter the discussion appropriately. This is why i have extended the windows on the threads to ensure we give the discussions the respect they are due.

The intention of this plan is have mind share, to educate one another on our feelings and philosophies and ultimately together through these discussions impact the evolution of Guild Wars 2. We all want the best for the game and this is at the core of the plan.

I feel it is going pretty well currently. I think that the majority of the posts from the community show a clear understanding on the goals of the exercise and there has already been some great discussion and insights. I am looking forward to being able to enter the discussion soon and would say that i wish we had a little more time presently. With this in mind I certainly have some suggestions to tweaking the initiative moving forward which we can discuss after this phase.

I hope this answers your questions.

Chris

It is great to see the discussion evolve. When i get some time i will be posting about the Living World cadence and entering that part of discussion with you all.

With time in mind i don’t think a week is long enough to discuss this topic so we will keep the close date open. At the end of the day i want to make sure we have enough time to discuss the topic with you and not feel rushed.

Chris

morrolan.9608:

Tom Wolf.1340:

If you people dont take all this to heart then I dont know what it will take.
I’ve seen excelent points made so far and sugestions on how to correct them in order to set this thing straight.
Lets hope it wont just stop at “Good feedback! we’ll consider it.” and then continue on as if nothing happened.

+1 to this, this has occurred to me as well. Chris we want to see substantive contributions by the dev team to these threads and obviously consideration being given to the suggestions or reasons why they can’t be implemented.

Hi Morrolan,

I appreciate your enthusiasm. Please do understand that we won’t be commenting on specific implementation. I just want to set expectations appropriately from the outset. There are multiple places on the forums where you can read how this initiative is going to work.

Also regarding dev contributions we have been and will continue to read the forums and as i said in my post, some of us will wait to hear the considerations of many of the community before entering the discussion. I can’t speak for all of us however.

From my previous post:

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

I hope this rule informs more clearly as to your expectation. Let’s not derail the thread by questioning the goals of the process please as they are already firmly stated.

I am enjoying the contribution of the discussion thus far and would like to see it evolve unhindered.

Chris

Awesome start!

I am reading the thread and will likely join the discussion tomorrow.

Chris

Randulf.7614:

Slightly confused. Can this be a Q&A about the Living World concept for the devs? If it’s just a discussion for the community, we already have wide ranging discussions going on in the LW subforum.

ALso, what do you mean by open discussion after the 4th? Is that discussion on the discussion we had here?

Sorry if my reply sounds weird, I’m all for the initiative, but I’m confused what direction this thread is meant to go in based on what you posted above.

(also..first!)

Hi Randulf,

The conversation on the 4th will be about how the first phase of the process went in terms of how useful it was etc so we can make the second phase better as a group.

The point of the initiative is definitely to discuss points as group, allowing us all to have a conversation about Living World in this case and share design philosophy that will certainly answer questions on both sides.

i hope this explanation helps.

Chris

Hi All,

We are now moving to the discussion phase of this initiative. The topic with the most votes in this area of the game was World Population Imbalance(Note: The topic tally was aggregated across all Community Forums per supported languages). The Coordinators for this thread will be Devon Carver.

As discussed here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/

First I would to lay down some rules for as we move forward regarding how we collaborate with one another:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

We will be closing the thread on Monday November 4th, and shortly after we will have an open discussion about what worked and what did not in regard to the process of the first topic discussion.

Until then thank for taking the time to take part in this and I look forward to discussing the game with you.

ChrisW

P.S: it is likely that we will watch the discussion for a few days before posting.

Hi All,

We are now moving to the discussion phase of this initiative. The topic with the most votes in this area of the game was Game Modes (Note: The topic tally was aggregated across all Community Forums per supported languages). The Coordinators for this thread will be Jonathan Sharp.

As discussed here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/

First I would to lay down some rules for as we move forward regarding how we collaborate with one another:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

We will be closing the thread on Monday November 4th, and shortly after we will have an open discussion about what worked and what did not in regard to the process of the first topic discussion.

Until then thank for taking the time to take part in this and I look forward to discussing the game with you.

ChrisW

P.S: it is likely that we will watch the discussion for a few days before posting.

Hi All,

We are now moving to the discussion phase of this initiative. The topic with the most votes in this area of the game was Living World (Note: The topic tally was aggregated across all Community Forums per supported languages). The Coordinators for this thread will be myself and Colin if he has anytime (-:.

As discussed here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/

First I would to lay down some rules for as we move forward regarding how we collaborate with one another:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

We will be closing the thread on Monday November 4th, and shortly after we will have an open discussion about what worked and what did not in regard to the process of the first topic discussion.

Until then thank for taking the time to take part in this and I look forward to discussing the game with you.

ChrisW

P.S: it is likely that we will watch the discussion for a few days before posting.

Hi All,

Thanks all for taking the time to post your topics. This thread will be closing on Tuesday 22nd Oct at 6pm PST. From there we will count up the the individual topics to ascertain which one is the most popular in this area.

ChrisW

Hi All,

Thanks all for taking the time to post your topics. This thread will be closing on Tuesday 22nd Oct at 6pm PST. From there we will count up the the individual topics to ascertain which one is the most popular in this area.

ChrisW

Hi All,

Thanks all for taking the time to post your topics. This thread will be closing on Tuesday 22nd Oct at 6pm PST. From there we will count up the the individual topics to ascertain which one is the most popular in this area.

ChrisW

Hi All,

Recently we spent some time discussing the concept of collaborative development with some of our community. The thread can be found here:

[url]https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/first[url]

We talked about rolling out a new process in which over a set time period we can discuss design philosophies behind the main components of Guild Wars 2.

The first part of the plan is for you all to list the top three sections of this area of the game that you would like to discuss:

For example for PVE your list might be:

1: Living World
2: Roleplaying
3: Ascended items

After a couple of days we will choose the number 1 topic in each area and then create the threads within the specific areas for us all to discuss, brainstorm and share our opinions on.

Chris

Hi All,

Recently we spent some time discussing the concept of collaborative development with some of our community. The thread can be found here:

[url]https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/first[url]

We talked about rolling out a new process in which over a set time period we can discuss design philosophies behind the main components of Guild Wars 2.

The first part of the plan is for you all to list the top three sections of this area of the game that you would like to discuss:

For example for PvP your list might be:

1: Balance Philosophy
2: Rewards and Progression
3: Game Modes

After a couple of days we will choose the number 1 topic in each area and then create the threads within the specific areas for us all to discuss, brainstorm and share our opinions on.

Chris

Hi All,

Recently we spent some time discussing the concept of collaborative development with some of our community. The thread can be found here:

[url]https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/first[url]

We talked about rolling out a new process in which over a set time period we can discuss design philosophies behind the main components of Guild Wars 2.

The first part of the plan is for you all to list the top three sections of this area of the game that you would like to discuss:

For example for WvW your list might be:

1: Leagues
2: Rewards and Progression
3: Commander Functionality

After a couple of days we will choose the number 1 topic in each area and then create the threads within the specific areas for us all to discuss, brainstorm and share our opinions on.

Chris

So we all just met to work out the logistics around the Collaborative Dev initiative and we will be opening the topics for listing your top three areas for discussion once the text has been localized. I will keep you all up to date with our progress and expect the request for discussion topics to go live in the next day or two.

Chris

Thanks all for your comments and the discussion.

I was out for most of the day so was unable to meet with the community team. I will ensure i do so on Monday, so we can work out logistics together and we will get the 3 threads up shortly thereafter.

Once again thanks and we are going to close the thread now.

Have a great weekend!

Chris

Arnath.2319:

The big question still remains, how will these new feedback features and collaboration differ from the feedback that has already been constructively and maturely given over the last year?

The problem has never been poor communication between developers and players, it has been developers not acting upon feedback. Over the last year constructive, mature feedback has been given, developers have responded, developers acknowledge and promise to do something about said feedback, then developers fail to deliver on said promise.

I feel like this thread has achieved nothing.

Hi,

As detailed in the thread the point of this initiative is to get us back to a more constructive dialog. We have been super super busy all this year and with the help of the community we are trying to create a sustainable process in which we can have constructive discussion and brainstorming around specific areas of the game without hampering the output or quality of the GW2. We hope that this process works out and that we will see 2 way discussion from the community and devs on a daily basis across all the areas of the game.

To be clear though the goal of the exercise isn’t to be asked to do something and then we go of and implement it. Many community members have already explained in the thread why this isn’t a good approach. Instead we discuss areas of the game, brainstorm, challenge each other and in so doing, this Collaborative Development process will have a meaningful impact on the game. Much more so than anything we have done together in the past.

I hope this makes sense?

Chris

Reesha.7901:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think the thread is getting pretty of track at this point. We have discussed implementation of the 3 threads and had some pretty enjoyable conversations.

if we have nothing more to contribute about the Collaboration process then i suggest that we think about closing the thread, as folks who want answers on questions that are not on topic are going to get frustrated if i don’t discuss it with them.

Do we want to continue talking about the main topic of the thread?

Chris

I have one last suggestion. After the selected topics are decided upon, posted and discussed. Could we maybe have a topic regarding feedback upon the process of collaborative development?

I find that often it is easier to suggest alternatives or find strengths and weaknesses in the way of doing things, once they have had a trial run

Absolutely that’s a great idea. so how about this:

After the first round of three threads. we create a main thread in general called:

Phase 1 Collaborative Development Feedback

Leave that open for 2 days and then i will list the actions we will take to improve the process?

Chris

Randulf.7614:

I would sticky it for the weekend players to peruse, but I suspect left open it will derail further. I think 19 pages of largely constructive chat has covered all the bases

Thanks for the feedback folks. Let’s keep it open today and see where we are tonight.

I have really enjoyed the conversation and am looking forward to the discussion on the threads.

The only downside to this thread has been that it has been eating into my game time!!

AFK for a few.

Chris

I think the thread is getting pretty of track at this point. We have discussed implementation of the 3 threads and had some pretty enjoyable conversations.

if we have nothing more to contribute about the Collaboration process then i suggest that we think about closing the thread, as folks who want answers on questions that are not on topic are going to get frustrated if i don’t discuss it with them.

Do we want to continue talking about the main topic of the thread?

Chris

Bismuth.3165:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Rama,

Sorry to hear you had posts deleted Rama. I will look into the said posts and try to provide more clarity to you. Note that feedback that is both positive and negative is absolutely admissible as long as it is constructive. If their is a moderation issue here then i will be really happy to get it fixed.

Chris

I asked whether selling spots in arah is allowed or not and my post got infracted and deleted…. too late now though, someone got an answer in the german forum and they said "It’s allowed as long as they don’t kick party members and don’t use exploits (afk belka, skipping lupi, etc…).

Not sure why your post got deleted. We will do a forum policy review shortly and from that i will get a better understanding. I will follow up with you when i get more info.

Chris

Pegaasus.3280:

KOPPER.1458:

“Shame on you all, tons of rangers are quitting the game becouse of your blindness.
Next Update October 15th will be last train for many rangers like me.
If you fail…simply consider ranger class died out”

You realize by now these decisions are set in stone right? So the class is either dead or it isn’t by now. While some changes are coming I hardly think you are going to get enough to make you really happy with them. Just a gut feeling.

Yes mate, I knwo myself there is no hope for ranger class
Just go reading ranger forums and look how many people are disgusted by Ranger current status.
Thx god new games are coming out..so..unless they do a good job on ranger..bye bye Arenanet))

Ranger balance is certainly something we discuss. I don’t want to derail the thread by going into more details, suffice to say we are aware of the perception and concerns and this is certainly an area we will discuss as we move forward. The plan for Collaborative Development moving forward will allow you to discuss your concerns with the developers and brain storm idea etc.

Regarding your current feelings toward stopping playing, that is totally your choice, and whilst we would be sad to see you leave please understand that ‘threats’ of quitting aren’t going to magically get you what you want. I just want to be clear about that.

Chris