Guild Wars 2

Mikuchan.7261:

Nike.2631:

Major bonus points for working in Rooba and C.L.E.A.N. . I strongly approve of building on our existing lore through these new journeys.

I think both Halloween events have shown ways “questing” can be delivered with a GW2 twist. Some of that tracking is managed through Achievements, and a few achievement points along the way is probably a plus.

-snip-

I think we also need to consider something very important that hasn’t come up (that I saw)…

What about Alts?

Once I unlock a Mastery for my Guardian, do I have to repeat that journey on all of my Guardian alts before they can benefit? Because that throws up big “GRIND INCOMING!” warning lights and claxons in my mind.

I had hoped/expected/envisioned that advancing my Renown in an Order would be a shared process for all of my characters in that Order. I hope something similar can be done for class-based progressions.

Thanks! :P

And good point.
The achievement system has been used for similar things.
The biggest problem with using the achievement system is that you can’t repeat quests. This would be fixed by either making some achievements (like quests) character bound or by making some rewards (like recipe rewards from quests) infinitely copyable to all characters account wide.
The last part would solve the Alt issue.

But if it’s not repeatable, you can’t make a new character to re-live the story.

So I think it’s better to make a quest system of it’s own that’s is more streamlined. This would probably also make it easier for ANet devs to create the quests.
The quest log could utilize the personal story window to have a quest tab.
Achievements can obviously still be tied to doing quests, but as a reward for doing them rather than a system.

With it’s own system, you could for example fix the alt problem by having a feature that if you have completed the quest once and the character meets the requirements, you can unlock the reward by other means for example currency. This should be limited to certain rewards, like skills and traits and stuff. For getting items and gold etc you should still have to do the quest.

Basically having other ways to complete already completed content without having to redo it unless you want to.
As a side note, it’d be nice to be able to clear world completion by creating a map for a certain price on a completed character and using it on another character to get world completion, all waypoints unlocked, you get your legendary materials etc.

Some very astute points in this post Mikuchan. You will no doubt be interested to know that we have been working to solve some of the issues you raise recently, and it is worth noting that when a CDI topic is running in parallel with work that is either about to be or already going on in the studio then the particular CDI is even more useful.

Chris

timmyf.1490:

I’ve felt this for awhile, though I still don’t quite know how to phrase it. Wondering if others might have an opinion.

As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.

I’ve suggested zones without waypoints as a way around this. Does anybody else feel the same way? Or am I romanticizing the runs from towns to far-flung locations in GW1?

Edit: should have said this originally, but all the credit to Sir Arthur for expressing my feelings better than I’ve been able to. This post was meant as a huge +1 to his.

Hi TimmyF,

I agree:

‘As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.’

Chris

Yoh.8469:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yoh.8469:

MRA.4758:

I still think that the “no trinity” approach of GW2 is one of the greatest improvements that the game has brought to the genre. And we are still not completely there: Way over a year after launch some specs still gravely outperform other specs of the same class, thereby already kind of forcing a fixed role on a particular class. And you should know how hard the balance team is working to solve this problem. My fear is that subclassing would just further escalate the situation: Would it really be possible to balance for viable damage, support, and control builds for each and every class/subclass combination? In my opinion, subclassing fits more to a classical trinity based game system, and not to GW2.

Right, so the DPS only system they have now is just so wonderful, and is chock full of build diversity. Oh wait….
And I think you missed the point, what Arenanet were trying to do wasn’t so much to get rid of the Trinity, but replace it with their own version of one that was more diverse and less crippling then the original holy trinity. DPS-Control-Support.

They however failed to do this, and created a system where you effectively are only a DPS, and everything else is a side dish. In fact in most modes of play, it’s Zerkers or go home.

While you can play with different builds, the game punishes you for it pretty much. You always going to be less effective then your pure DPS counterparts.
Not to mention it’s a very isolating and solo experience by design, which clashes head on with their more collaborative multiplayer events and scaling.

-
I do give them credit for doing well with just one type of play, but you can’t ignore the great whopping problems that come along with it.
Not to say that a sub-class system would fix that, thou I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand based on assumptions. But it possible to begin addressing some of the issues, depending on how it is executed.

Which is the main problem with your argument, you just declare ‘sub-classes’ won’t work, without defining this incredibly loose term that means different things to different people.

You might want to define your terms.

As a point to add to this discussion. We have, and are still working on getting the support balance right in regard to the global role balance meta. And it is due to agreement with points made by yourself (and those of others) that we have been working on this.

Chris

Cool beans.
Yeah, I’m aware that it’s being worked on, and I realize that this problem is just going to take time to fix.
It’s a great big honking problem, and you don’t want to cause a bunch more problems for yourself by rushing into it.

I just wanted to point out that while the system you’ve got is very inventive, and works well in a lot of places, it’s not all sunshine and kittens.

‘and you don’t want to cause a bunch more problems for yourself by rushing into it.’

Exactly.

Chris

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note I am currently waiting for Teq to spawn with my guild and therefore will probably disappear soon (-:

Chris

Remember your training.

. . . trip the charr running away next to you so you can get away.

. (-: .

Chris

timmyf.1490:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.

So this comment from awhile back stuck out to me. I think we’ve got plenty of ideas here, with Housing, Subclasses, Order Missions, new weapons/traits/skills/races, and more all having a lot of discussion.

The weighting, therefore, probably isn’t going to cause much trouble at this point. What it might do is allow us to consider some tradeoffs…

Suppose a reasonable housing system requires 120 man-weeks of work. (In reality, I’d expect it to be far greater, but bear with me.) That might make housing seem less attractive if we find out we can get Order Missions for 60 man-weeks and a new weapon for each class with another 60.

I am aware that estimating development efforts to that level of detail requires a pretty thorough proposal ahead of time, but even a semi-realistic ballpark could provide for some useful discussion.

As always, this is both your game and your initiative, but for my part, I think it would be a worthwhile next step.

Yep i think that is a good point.

Note I am currently waiting for Teq to spawn with my guild and therefore will probably disappear soon (-:

Chris

Yoh.8469:

MRA.4758:

I still think that the “no trinity” approach of GW2 is one of the greatest improvements that the game has brought to the genre. And we are still not completely there: Way over a year after launch some specs still gravely outperform other specs of the same class, thereby already kind of forcing a fixed role on a particular class. And you should know how hard the balance team is working to solve this problem. My fear is that subclassing would just further escalate the situation: Would it really be possible to balance for viable damage, support, and control builds for each and every class/subclass combination? In my opinion, subclassing fits more to a classical trinity based game system, and not to GW2.

Right, so the DPS only system they have now is just so wonderful, and is chock full of build diversity. Oh wait….
And I think you missed the point, what Arenanet were trying to do wasn’t so much to get rid of the Trinity, but replace it with their own version of one that was more diverse and less crippling then the original holy trinity. DPS-Control-Support.

They however failed to do this, and created a system where you effectively are only a DPS, and everything else is a side dish. In fact in most modes of play, it’s Zerkers or go home.

While you can play with different builds, the game punishes you for it pretty much. You always going to be less effective then your pure DPS counterparts.
Not to mention it’s a very isolating and solo experience by design, which clashes head on with their more collaborative multiplayer events and scaling.

-
I do give them credit for doing well with just one type of play, but you can’t ignore the great whopping problems that come along with it.
Not to say that a sub-class system would fix that, thou I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand based on assumptions. But it possible to begin addressing some of the issues, depending on how it is executed.

Which is the main problem with your argument, you just declare ‘sub-classes’ won’t work, without defining this incredibly loose term that means different things to different people.

You might want to define your terms.

As a point to add to this discussion. We have, and are still working on getting the support balance right in regard to the global role balance meta. And it is due to agreement with points made by yourself (and those of others) that we have been working on this.

Chris

timmyf.1490:

Chris-

At one point, you had offered to produce an estimate of implementation time/resources for some of the systems, I think. Are you still planning on doing this so we can better prioritize some of these ideas? Or will you be building the proposal based on the discussion so far?

I think some of the ideas here might serve as “quick wins” and that a lot of the suggestions, like subclasses and housing, might fall out of favor when the folks here (who I assume are mostly not developers) see how much extra effort those systems require.

Oh, and thanks. I think this has been a very interesting CDI, even if I tend to disagree with a lot of the ideas.

Hi Timmy,

Here is a link to the post in which i discussed the pro’s and con’s of individual feature/idea weighting, as an update for you:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/29#post3444858

I can still provide feature weighting insight with the proposal (when it is done- Tomorrow morning) should everyone feel that it would be useful?

Chris

MRA.4758:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Shakkara.2641:

WE DONT WANT SUBCLASSES!

I just want to point out that this is not a particularly collaborative or useful post. Please however don’t take this personally.

While I agree with your position that no one should argue like she is speaking for everybody else, I’d like to encourage you to not discard the problematic points addressed by Shakkara so lightly. I, for one, am also not thrilled at the thought of a subclass specialization system for GW2.

There are very valid arguments in Shakkara’s post:

• A subclass makes you follow the template provided by a game designer, instead of helping the player to invent original builds for her character.
• Subclass exclusive content in very inefficient to build since, say, 23 out of 3*8=24 players would not benefit from that content. You should recognize this argument, since this was the exact same reason Anet stated for dropping the idea of profession exclusive skill challenges.
• The “tasks of acquisition” do bear the risk of being fun for the first or second time, but might end up becoming a chore or grind, eventually.

I still haven’t seen a single proposal of a subclass specialization system that actually helps to improve build diversity. From what I have seen it might be far more likely that such a system rather fences you in and forces you to take particular roles. (“hey, bro, if you’re a ranger/druid then you have to make a toughness/healing power build, everything else is just plain stupid!!!1!”)

I still think that the “no trinity” approach of GW2 is one of the greatest improvements that the game has brought to the genre. And we are still not completely there: Way over a year after launch some specs still gravely outperform other specs of the same class, thereby already kind of forcing a fixed role on a particular class. And you should know how hard the balance team is working to solve this problem. My fear is that subclassing would just further escalate the situation: Would it really be possible to balance for viable damage, support, and control builds for each and every class/subclass combination? In my opinion, subclassing fits more to a classical trinity based game system, and not to GW2.

Hence, I would rather like to see a form of horizontal progression that helps to generate more viable spec combinations for all classes, instead of a system that might lock you into a fixed and/or preconceived role.

~MRA

Hi.

I agree with this sentiment as a player to a degree:

‘Hence, I would rather like to see a form of horizontal progression that helps to generate more viable spec combinations for all classes, instead of a system that might lock you into a fixed and/or preconceived role.’

I think you still misunderstand in regard to this comment however:

’I’d like to encourage you to not discard the problematic points addressed by Shakkara so lightly’

Because I respond to a member of the CDI pointing out how to better approach the initiative does not mean that I have not read the entirety of the post. Much of my time is spent reading and thinking about points made by Collaborators and therefore a comment on the Macro that I think is important does not mean that I am not thinking about the Micro.

Chris

Sytherek.7689:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

That makes sense, and it’s occurred to me as well, but I’ve certainly seen my share and a half of completely nonsensical garbage out of all manner of game developers, almost always justified by some variation of the excuse “We don’t have the time/resources to do that. Make do with what you have.” It’s made me…twitchy…over the years >_>

I’m a game developer but not from ANet, so perhaps I can try and clarify. Exactly why does “we don ’t have the resources” make you “twitch”?

Is it that you don’t believe the developers? Is it because you, a non-developer, think these things are easy?

Do you think they should hire more staff? Can they, given the economic model of the game?

A company exists both to pay its employees and make a profit. A great idea may simply not be economically or logistically possible, no matter how much it may make you “twitch”.

Here’s another angle — just how much do you expect to pay, in real dollars, for guild and player housing? Will adding such items improve player recruitment and retention, and if so, to what extent?

For example, I would pay $25 (2000 gems) for player housing that is meaningful and flexible and useful. Would enough players pay that much to justify development by ANet?

ANet must allocate resources effectively to stay in business and grow the game.

A well made point Sytherek.

Chris

So I am currently on page 47 and have read 53,54 and 55 (-:

I have blocked out time to get to get completely up to date by lunchtime tomorrow (Assuming nothing crazy goes on tomorrow morning).

I am hoping to have the proposal up tomorrow morning and would think that by the end of next we will have stickied this topic. This thread has been excellent in general and has already impacted us internally which is the core of what the CDI is.

Following the tabling of this thread we will move into CDI Process Evolution phase 2.

Chris

videoboy.4162:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

videoboy.4162:

Chris,

I know you can’t give details, but I was wondering if you guys figured out a way to separate the LS from the PS? I remember several Dev comments mentioning that the PS was reducing what could be done in LS (example: Killing Jennah because she had to be alive in the PS.)

This is definitely something we have been discussing.

I cannot give anymore details than that however.

Chris

Darn, I totally tried to phrase it in such a way that you could just say yes or no. LOL I’ll try harder next time. =D

Sorry (-:. Not trying to be evasive. It is just an area I am unable to discuss.

Chris

Merus.9475:

Shakkara.2641:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Shakkara,

I just want to point out that this is not a particularly collaborative or useful post. Please however don’t take this personally.

The whole point of CDI is to discuss, brainstorm and then ‘reduce’ ideas as a group until they reach their pure essence.

Making assumptions about what ‘everyone’ wants just does not work in this kind of collaborative environment and not lead to progression within ideation.

Finally the purpose of the CDI is not for the developer to be told what ‘Everyone’ wants. It is to work together to evolve our design philosophies and experience in game leading toward synergy in problem solving and ideation.

I hope this makes sense.

Chris

P.S: Go Hawks!

Perhaps you should address the points I made with my post instead of the way I wrote it.

You’re still not really reading that feedback, are you. This is not a forum for telling other people how wrong they are for disagreeing with your vision of the game, and it’s not a forum for addressing the developers specifically. You had the germ of a good argument in the previous post – that having a set of shared skills that every profession has access to is better than having lots of different subclasses – and instead of railing against other people’s ideas, you should have developed your own and shown how it solves problems that other approaches have.

Hi Merus,

My goal with this post is to help educate the poster and others on the core philosophy of all CDI’s .

Each thread has a Micro and a Macro goal. The Micro goal is to discuss and get the very best out of each topic to make GW2 the very best game it can be. The Macro goal with each thread is for us as Collaborators to be able to mature and advance our design acumen and methods of communication in each thread which in turn with multiply the positive value of each micro goal.

Therefore please don’t assume that because I am offering advice on the macro level that I am not engaging on the micro level.

I am including a link that has more detail on the overarching goals of the CDI and how it works:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/exclusive-video-interview-chris-whiteside-cdis

Chris

videoboy.4162:

Chris,

I know you can’t give details, but I was wondering if you guys figured out a way to separate the LS from the PS? I remember several Dev comments mentioning that the PS was reducing what could be done in LS (example: Killing Jennah because she had to be alive in the PS.)

This is definitely something we have been discussing.

I cannot give anymore details than that however.

Chris

Zaoda.1653:

@ColinJohanson,

In regards to new weapon skills/unlocks, I think the way it worked in GW1 in terms of obtaining both normal and elite skills using the Signet of Capture was so unique and amazing. It was something I had never seen done before in any other game I had played, whereby you go around the world looking for specific bosses that have the elite that you want, and that boss had a particular glow depending on what profession it was – gold/yellow for warrior, cyan for ritualist, green for necromancer etc. you slayed that boss, and captured its elite when standing near its corpse. I felt like I had truly earnt that skill, and that to me is what it’s all about – true progression.

So something like a Signet of Capture concept where you can purchase, or get via a reward, and go around and collect weapon skills from bosses would be ideal – and would make you feel as though you truly earnt it.

You could even swap in, say, 10-20 skill points for a capture skill (as many have been wanting more ways to use excess skill points, this could be another way to use them up?)

Edit: another idea could be bringing back elite tomes? Just a thought anyway.

Hi Zaoda,

Absolutely, this is a simple and excellent system. Very elegant, and rewarding with a great sense of discovery.

Chris

Aeonblade.8709:

Swagger.1459:

I hope that if a “grand journey” to horizontal progression is introduced, the paths are equally offered to wvw, pvers and dungeon/fractal players or you’ll run into the same issues that we currently have with ascended vertical progression.

This, remember, WvW centric players aren’t going to be pleased if they have to farm PvE for their progression, be it horizontal or vertical

I certainly respect your points.

Chris

Shakkara.2641:

ColinJohanson.2394:

And most importantly: Snip

The event idea is an interesting one, but it doesn’t feel like a “grand journey” so to speak. Do you feel like if we asked you to do 90 different events in a month, and that allowed your ranger to say become a Druid, you’d feel like that was a cool system.

No, just please NO!

This is a terrible system, and I think you get what we want completely the wrong way around.

We want more skills and more traits to have more diversity and really build a character that suits OUR wishes.

What you’re doing with your subclasses, is once again make DEVS design character templates for players to follow.

Worst of all, you’ll go and produce a lot of content which is EXCLUSIVE to a particular subclass and thus cannot be used by any other player character. This results in a lot of work that doesn’t have much value to an individual player. You should make content for ALL classes, and let players cherry-pick from that freely, and create their own subclass that way!

In ultima online, I can combine skills from 50 different professions and choose become a vampire-paladin-warrior-samurai also known as Sampire, a class designed and created by the players. And sampires come in 100’s of different flavours, mine for example doesn’t have bushido and has much less chivalry, but instead has bandage healing and parries with a shield instead of a 2h weapon.

What you want to do, is give us a ‘druid’ subclass. With a few new standard abilities that are unique to the druid and cannot be creatively combined in any way. You’re once again determining what is good for us, instead of giving us any freedom over our characters.

Worst of all, you propose us to do some chore as task, that has the subclass as ‘reward’ at the end. Sounds an awful lot like vertical progression to me. If this is about horizontal progression, there should be a horizontal approach to acquiring new skills, meaning that like in GW1, they’re split in many little bits which are ALL available for capture at the same time, waiting for you to capture. It’s up to you how you prioritize their acquisition. I think a similar system to the hearts would work, heart-quest like things that each unlock an individual skill/trait/etc upon completion. The only bad thing is that GW2 has so many character levels and thus many zones are not yet accessible to low level characters so that unfortunately means that they can’t capture everything right from the start. But yeah, having levels in GW2 was one of the biggest mistakes anyway.

We want houses, we want more skills.

WE DONT WANT SUBCLASSES!

Hi Shakkara,

I just want to point out that this is not a particularly collaborative or useful post. Please however don’t take this personally.

The whole point of CDI is to discuss, brainstorm and then ‘reduce’ ideas as a group until they reach their pure essence.

Making assumptions about what ‘everyone’ wants just does not work in this kind of collaborative environment and not lead to progression within ideation.

Finally the purpose of the CDI is not for the developer to be told what ‘Everyone’ wants. It is to work together to evolve our design philosophies and experience in game leading toward synergy in problem solving and ideation.

I hope this makes sense.

Chris

P.S: Go Hawks!

Morrigan.2809:

Malchior.5042:

Conski Deshan.2057:

ColinJohanson.2394:

The event idea is an interesting one, but it doesn’t feel like a “grand journey” so to speak. Do you feel like if we asked you to do 90 different events in a month, and that allowed your ranger to say become a Druid, you’d feel like that was a cool system?

By grand journey do you mean in difficulty or length?, As I assume you want all players to be able to unlock their “subclass” fairly soon after hitting 80?

Also could we get a weigh in on your opinion on housing?

I’ll offer a counter-view here. First off, what would you consider “fairly soon,” Conski?

• IMO, why should a person unlock their subclass fairly soon after hitting 80? Hitting 80 the person just reaches their last trait points, their max level gear, and all the other elements to cement their play.

• Me personally, I’d be ok with a week-long journey (hardcores could probably rush it out within a few days) that focused more on “unlocking/discovering potential” within your character.

• The idea above that adds different weight to all the events sounds decent, but also sounds incredibly time-consuming to Arenanet. Colin, I probably could do 90 events in a week, but I wouldn’t enjoy it. Instead of deciding on a number first, I’d focus on the flavor of each event being run. I would expect a Ranger hoping to “Ascend” (hehehe) to Druid would do an event track or whatever that sent said Ranger all over Tyria doing Druidy or Rangerish things (those are words ).

• This could conclude with a new instance/dungeon or something where a party completes the final task to “unlock their potential” together. This adds additional merit that GW 2 is a game that’s built on large encounters, profession combos, and player interaction. After said final task is completed, each party member would unlock their prospective track, and they can all rejoice together at their accomplishment.

I just want to make it very very clear that I in no way want my personal character progression dependant on group content. – read 5 man dungeon. In no way. Sure give that option for people who want to party up but it is my own character and as such I should be able to do it.

I think this is a fair expectation.

Chris

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Conski Deshan.2057:

1. Communities or Solo instances?, do you want to see groups of players houses in the one instance or a private instance with only your house in it? (people can still visit either way.)

Snip…

2. Construction, what level of involvement would you like? building it block by block? A room by room function where you can pick and choose rooms to add? A series of set designs?

I love games like Minecraft and Terraria’s control over what you can do and the sheer RIDICULOUS amount of effort people can put into doing things terribly unique with construction. I’d rather they stick to those games than Guild Wars 2. I’m sorry, don’t get me wrong, those of you who do things like rebuild Minas Tirith or make soaring citadels of glass and stone which look like they took hours – I salute you. But trying to satisfy you with that level of control is going to drive the developers MAD. MAD I SAY.

What I’d expect is a modular approach. You can choose a floorplan/blueprint from a few predeveloped shells with “X large rooms, Y small rooms, and Z floors”. Then you can pick and choose from a list of “large rooms”, “small rooms” to fill it in. Things like a trophy hall, a crafting workshop, or something just decorative . . . like your asura has a golem foundry, my human has a chapel to Grenth, his charr can have a room where he works on his charrzooka or mortar system. But almost all of the basic rooms come unfurnished.

Then you can use artisans or interior decorator NPCs to create from a menu using some materials (not huge amounts though) to craft furniture or decorations which get placed like siege blueprints – you get a bundle item and a red outline turning green where you can place it. Standing close you can target it for context specific things . . . like sitting on the couch or posing before a trophy on the wall.

3.Functionalities, I think we can all agree at a basic level housing should allow for some storage and display of trophies/achievements/weapons/armor , in addition to this what would you like to see, Farming? nodes? intractable objects? side missions?

Trophy showing off? Yes definitely.

Nodes? Ehh, yes, might be nice. Link it to what your home instance currently has available and you can either use your house or your home instance. And based on level you can have access to crafting materials of varying tiers (but not Tier 6 without actually doing something to earn them) such as a rich ore node or a few trees, or a garden you can choose what to plant for availability tomorrow. Like you will get sometimes a seed from gathering which lets you spawn a patch of that gathering node for plants in a garden.

The last probably is a bit much and prone to causing shakeups in the economy for food. Oh well?

4. Interior customization, placing objects within the house how would you like it to work?

I covered it above.

5. Getting items, How do you get items to put in your house?

Decorations either through your interior decorator crafting them, achievements from Living Story or retroactive, potential rewards from champion bags, or from chests out in the world. Say, chests in Orr have a chance to give humans an icon of one of the Six Gods looted from the Holy City of Arah . . . or charr a piece of Pact weaponry to hang on the wall as memory to those who were lost . . . or sylvari getting a sprout traced back to Caladbolg’s influence on Orr?

In other words, decorations either basic and available to everyone or things which require you to go adventure and get them.

6. Linking to other content, is there anything you would like to link with housing? (i.e in a perfect vision of the future I could walk out of my house onto an airship dock and take my airship into combat)

Much like with Guild Halls, you can buy servants/assistants who would do things like . . . an Arena Master who would let you go to Heart of the Mists, a Mist War Veteran who could drop you to WvW, an Asuran Travel Facilitator who could send you to any Asura Gate destination in a major city. Or for a FLAT FEE (say, 2s 50c) drop you at any Waypoint not contested you have discovered. (Big enough an expense it’s possibly cheaper to move to a city close then travel, small enough that it’s preferable to reach some long-distance locations like Orr).

Hi Tobias,

I like your commentary on housing. In a game like GW2 I think that the focus is best pointed at ‘Character’ Progression rather than ‘World’ progression and I think your housing ideas fit nicely within this paradigm.

The focus should be on the character and the story and the synergy between the two.

Chris

cesmode.4257:

ColinJohanson.2394:

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

I had suggested several times about Global Dominance system. Similar to WvW…we as players and as a server, complete events across the entire map of Tyria and receive passive bonuses based on the % of the map that we control as players. So if we leave entire zones(say the lesser traveled zones) to be completely occupied by centaurs, for example, we won’t be receiving maximum benefits. And you can use most of the existing dynamic events to accomplish this. There are many DEs that take over way points and camps that we as players can complete and push enemy NPCs back…thus acquiring a larger portion of the world.

This encourages players to play in more than one zone, get sthem out in the world, etc.

On top of this, put in a reward system for completing unique(different) dynamic events in a month. I.E. Complete 90 unique dynamic events in January and receive a Cesmode mini(just kidding). But you get the picture.

Is that big enough and outside the box?

Just catching up now. I really do like this idea, always have. I see this as a base system that would be applied to content across the board that would impact many features and mechanics, not just Horizontal Progression. I bet this idea comes up in many more CDIs as it has already done in the past.

Chris

VOLKON.1290:

Hey Chris, welcome back!

Although it’s not relevant to the progression system being discussed, have you seen the “Let the night be nighttime” thread yet? I added a thought in there as to how we could use making the dark darker to enhance the overall game play. It may be worth your read.

Thanks!

I saw it last night while I was reading the forums in bed but that was the one topic I didn’t read, sorry.

I will read it tonight but based on what you just said I am very intrigued and can imagine what the content will be (-:

Chris

anonim.5932:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I got back into the office this week and have been SUPER busy. So i sincerely apologies for not contributing over the past few days. I need to catch up from page 44 )-:

I intend to put a proposal together on behalf of us all this weekend. Feel free to carry on chatting and brainstorming in the interim. I am looking forward to getting back into thread and seeing it come to its conclusion.

Chris

Hi Chris,
think it’s indeed the right time for your proposal. It’s hard for new people to join this thread, because they won’t read everything and don’t know what has been discussed so far. Yep, there are some players making big efforts (thanks for that!) to summarize everything, but still…
A proposal could create a “new” start of a concentrated discussion, where everyone new could start to participate.
Perhaps even a new thread would help to integrate new players?

And thanks for the CDI and your “heroic” engagement for this one =)

Honestly I wish i had more time to engage. Especially this week. I will catch up tomorrow though. And then in the next CDI Process Evolution maybe we can all come up with some ideas to help us all with time and the ability for everyone to be able to drop in and out.

Chris

Bezagron.7352:

HP summary page 29 to 34 Part 1
Next summary up, should be back in order after this. For Updated Top Three Tally refer to HP summary page 35 to 40 Part 1. Also for anyone looking for up-to-date topic information and a complete index of all summaries over the Character Progression CDI The Lost Witch has created CDI – Character Progression – Summaries. Again if I’ve missed anything let me know.

First off Chris rejoins the discussion now looking for everyone to list their Top One Idea.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Snip. .

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole.

. .Snip. .

And my top one is:

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content. Snip..

Chris

Top One Tally (update to pg 34)

1. Sociopolitical Diversification (26)
2. Role Diversification (23)
3. Zone & Order progression (12)
4. Hero Recognition (10)
5. Skin Locker / Wardrobe (2)
6. New Permanent Zones (1)

Please note I’ve separated Sociopolitical & Zone / Order progression as I feel Zone & Order can incorporate large elements of role diversification and hero recognition as well.

Character Progression

• Chuggs talks about Rewards vs Content, Shallow Vs Deep HP and brings up vanquishing in the open world. Marcus wonders about respawning mobs affecting vanquishing and looks at vanquishing in GW1. Adding further to vanquishing here
• One idea in LanfearShadowflame’s list takes the HoM from GW1, looking to rebuild the visual display for achievements and rewards in GW2. Also lists various other HP ideas.
• Cesmode brings up Global Dominance and Nike links the topic. An interesting idea for PvE which could be compared to Faction Alliance battle in GW1 and WvW in GW2.
• Marcus Greythorne wonders about all those out of the way veterans in game. Could they be used for something skill hunting no, could it be card game, arena fights, map hunting.
• Obscure One looks at options for the gem store in HP.

Edit: Added The Lost Witch summary index link to top.

Hi Bezagron,

Thank you so much to you and everyone who has been creating summaries and supporting the CDI community with updates and information.

I really appreciate it.

Chris

Devata.6589:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I got back into the office this week and have been SUPER busy. So i sincerely apologies for not contributing over the past few days. I need to catch up from page 44 )-:

I intend to put a proposal together on behalf of us all this weekend. Feel free to carry on chatting and brainstorming in the interim. I am looking forward to getting back into thread and seeing it come to its conclusion.

Chris

Why don’t you put in post breaks just like Anet did in the beta forum.

I think it’s important you read every post not just the summaries however thats so much, it’s almost impossible. By putting in post breaks you could make it more manageable.

I will be reading every post. I am aware where I left of and will be continuing from there. Not sure why you think I just read summaries.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Chris

Hi All,

I got back into the office this week and have been SUPER busy. So i sincerely apologies for not contributing over the past few days. I need to catch up from page 44 )-:

I intend to put a proposal together on behalf of us all this weekend. Feel free to carry on chatting and brainstorming in the interim. I am looking forward to getting back into thread and seeing it come to its conclusion.

Chris

Deified.7520:

I think we should all take a moment to thank Chris Whiteside. Whether or not our ideas or suggestions see the light of day, hes been on these forums almost every day during the holiday/vacation. Its good to see that type of dedication with an employee of any company.

So thank you Chris for your hard work during this CDI!

I would like to thank you all for spending your time and rocking it in making GW2 the very best game it can be!

Chris

Hi All,

I am back at work now and was just enjoying the last few days of my vacation.

It is awesome to see you all discussing the ‘Journey’ side of Horizontal Progression with Colin. Once that discussion has finished I will help us put a proposal together for both the ‘Journey’ and the ‘Reward’ and we can go from there.

Meanwhile Lee from GW2 Hub has posted an interview with me about the CDI. If you get a chance check it out and enjoy the fruits of your hard work:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/exclusive-video-interview-chris-whiteside-cdis

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy New Year! Thanks for being so patient with me. Regarding other dev’s posting during this period it is unlikely as it is the holiday period and I don’t expect them to emulate my behavior.

Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).

I am up to date with all the posts, thanks for all hard work, ideation, and discussion.

We are in the process of pulling the net in now and so I am going to ask you all to do something very difficult now (As in you won’t feel comfortable doing it). Previously I asked you to name your top three ideas. You did, and then everyone discussed them which led to a refocusing of many of your ideas and the birth of some new ones.

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole. Note I to found this very difficult but my one is blow. Also note I consider Wardrobe to be QOL, however any Wardrobe ideas that are Systemic or build on existing mechanics can be included.

Please also understand this is not a vote that leads to development, this is part of the ideation process. I would recommend looking at ideas that are built on existing systems or mechanics within the game. This is a nice to have however. Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.

Remember at the end of the day we are not going to give details on what is in dev or what we plan to build. We will talk about what we like however and thus knowing details about Feature Cost is interesting to know but should not be something that inadvertently hampers the CDI or your ideas.

My original three were:

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

And my top one is:

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

The other two were extremely close but I feel this one would have the best bang for buck for the community.

Finally note we are working on horizontal progression, with many of ideas (some of which may even be in this thread), so I can’t stress enough that this exercise is about further ideation focus refinement. Not a dev list.

Chris

Bump

Ok so I am heading out for the day and will be back later.

Meanwhile please keep the conversation going in regard to Sub Classes. I do appreciate that the initial reaction is to do a separate CDI on it, but I would like to see if we feel it could be part of a Horizontal Progression proposal at this stage or that we think it is currently not relevant and thus making it a topic for the future makes sense.

I am going to bump the phase post I did a few days ago as well to get some more opinions on the groups ‘Ones’.

Chris

Hi Kain,

I understand the fundamentals of your point, my comment was not in reference to this.

It was in reference to ‘dramatic’ way in which you are trying to make your point. You will always do better to approach discussion from a reasoned metrics based standpoint than from an emotional one.

Thus with all due respect my opinion of your sentence was that it was OTT. I think I am entitled to have that opinion.

At no point did I either disagree with your point or say that I didn’t understand it.

‘Beacon’ mechanics are very important serving a ‘Complimentary Function and Cyclical Compulsion Loop Driver" of all types of Progression including Vertical but they are not the ’Core’ of either Vertical or Horizontal reward progression. The proof of this can be found by reading posts by contributors who sight their favorite example of Horizontal progression being in single player games for example.

I hope this makes my initial point clearer now and sorry for any confusion.

Chris

Kain Francois.4328:

I know I’ve suggested this before, but I will repeat it again: Underflow servers.

The root of all Horizontal Progression is the community. Chasing after nice aesthetics are pointless without other players to show it off to and interact with.

Please bring the community back to your game. We need underflow servers before Horizontal Progression even has a meaning.

Personally I think Underflow Servers are very important to. I do however think that your final sentence is a bit over the top (-:

Chris

There has been a huge amount of discussion around sub classes. I would love to see you guys close out this particular area by either putting a sub class proposal together (Sentence detailing how it would work) or deciding as a group that it isn’t relevant at this point.

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes and see quite a few of the counter arguments based upon assumptions around balancing etc. Where possible we should try not to make decisions around feasibility of ideas through assumptions.

In short I would like to see if the CDI group thinks it is a relevant part of Horizontal Progression at this stage of GW2’s life?

Chris

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

DarcShriek.5829:

Totally uninterested in player housing. I am interested in new lands to conquer. I am not interested in progression that means I need silk curtains rather than linen curtains. I am here to save the world. If I want to decorate a home, I’ll play the sims. It does a much better job of home creation than GW2 ever could.

I doubt that player housing in GW2 would mainly be about choosing your curtains. Chris already mentioned tasks, events and challenges coming out of this – some content where other players are involved, if I heard him right.

That is correct.

Chris

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).

Ever the optimist .

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole.

While the answers have been illuminating, I think we’re also looking at a little bit of a false dilemma…

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

…Are for the most part Rewards for play. These are the incentives to spend time in Tyria. They are ‘ends’, though Role Diversification also represents some new ‘means’.

I think each of those categories for the most part represents different teams that work in parallel. The Balance Team won’t be bogged down scripting in new racial titles. The map designer’s creating the framework for guild-halls won’t delay the creation of new armor skins. And beyond our individual preferences for one proposal over the other, I’d bet good money nearly all of us agree that some progress needs to take place on ALL of these fronts to keep GW2 in a strong, competitive, and innovative position relative to an interesting year for gamers who like to check out new things …

I’m suspicious the choke point could end up being the means of accessing these goodies. New gameplay. The sub-set of design most people mean when they throw around the vague-to-the-point-of-meaningless “Content”. In our lust for shines, are we overlooking gameplay? Or are simple ideas like ‘re-clearing maps with additional challenges’ and vague hand-waving alluding to ‘new mini-dungeons’ adequate?

I can list lots of things I’d play for. I’m not sure I’ve given enough thought to what else I’d like to be doing during that journey…

I disagree. This CDI is about horizontal ‘progression’. Specifically ‘Character’ progression. On top of this each of the examples I put forward and those of many contributors imply or state activity leading to the ‘progression reward’.

Certainly in my mind I am imagining the journey being centered around existing core journey mechanics or evolved mechanics and systems like Marcus’s map progression idea or by many ‘journey’ ideas yourself and others have made.

With each of my suggestions I also imagine the theme of each type of character progression have a huge impact on the ‘flavor’ of the journey that pertains to each. Also note that in two of my examples they are not considered progression ‘end’ points. Instead they are bridges leading to more journeys.

Therefore in short I think a journey CDI would be awesome and whilst it is awesome to read these ideas in this CDI, i do not believe that Journey is the primary discussion in this topic, however important it may be.

Chris

videoboy.4162:

This thread has me all excited for new updates and I can’t wait until they release the preview for the update in the 21st!

Curious: Has there been anything (even tiny things) that we’ve discussed in the various CDIs that has been able to be added to the game yet?

There have been evolution s based on CDIs. I will do an update when my vacation ends.

Glad your excited about the CDI. Me to!

Chris

Wow what a great conversation!

I was reading it while I was out and thought it might get heated but you all owned it really professionally.

I am going to play some NetRunner and will be back in discussion either later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy New Year! Thanks for being so patient with me. Regarding other dev’s posting during this period it is unlikely as it is the holiday period and I don’t expect them to emulate my behavior.

Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).

I am up to date with all the posts, thanks for all hard work, ideation, and discussion.

We are in the process of pulling the net in now and so I am going to ask you all to do something very difficult now (As in you won’t feel comfortable doing it). Previously I asked you to name your top three ideas. You did, and then everyone discussed them which led to a refocusing of many of your ideas and the birth of some new ones.

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole. Note I to found this very difficult but my one is blow. Also note I consider Wardrobe to be QOL, however any Wardrobe ideas that are Systemic or build on existing mechanics can be included.

Please also understand this is not a vote that leads to development, this is part of the ideation process. I would recommend looking at ideas that are built on existing systems or mechanics within the game. This is a nice to have however. Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.

Remember at the end of the day we are not going to give details on what is in dev or what we plan to build. We will talk about what we like however and thus knowing details about Feature Cost is interesting to know but should not be something that inadvertently hampers the CDI or your ideas.

My original three were:

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

And my top one is:

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

The other two were extremely close but I feel this one would have the best bang for buck for the community.

Finally note we are working on horizontal progression, with many of ideas (some of which may even be in this thread), so I can’t stress enough that this exercise is about further ideation focus refinement. Not a dev list.

Chris

Le Bump!

Chris

Bump

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy New Year! Thanks for being so patient with me. Regarding other dev’s posting during this period it is unlikely as it is the holiday period and I don’t expect them to emulate my behavior.

Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).

I am up to date with all the posts, thanks for all hard work, ideation, and discussion.

We are in the process of pulling the net in now and so I am going to ask you all to do something very difficult now (As in you won’t feel comfortable doing it). Previously I asked you to name your top three ideas. You did, and then everyone discussed them which led to a refocusing of many of your ideas and the birth of some new ones.

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole. Note I to found this very difficult but my one is blow. Also note I consider Wardrobe to be QOL, however any Wardrobe ideas that are Systemic or build on existing mechanics can be included.

Please also understand this is not a vote that leads to development, this is part of the ideation process. I would recommend looking at ideas that are built on existing systems or mechanics within the game. This is a nice to have however. Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.

Remember at the end of the day we are not going to give details on what is in dev or what we plan to build. We will talk about what we like however and thus knowing details about Feature Cost is interesting to know but should not be something that inadvertently hampers the CDI or your ideas.

My original three were:

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

And my top one is:

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

The other two were extremely close but I feel this one would have the best bang for buck for the community.

Finally note we are working on horizontal progression, with many of ideas (some of which may even be in this thread), so I can’t stress enough that this exercise is about further ideation focus refinement. Not a dev list.

Chris

Le Bump!

Chris

Bump.

Note I will create a Proposal for discussion based on everyone’s discussions and favorites once folks have more time to discuss and list theirs.

Chris

Morning All,

I am going to be out most of the day. Looking forward to seeing more of your number Ones and discussions around them.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy New Year! Thanks for being so patient with me. Regarding other dev’s posting during this period it is unlikely as it is the holiday period and I don’t expect them to emulate my behavior.

Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).

I am up to date with all the posts, thanks for all hard work, ideation, and discussion.

We are in the process of pulling the net in now and so I am going to ask you all to do something very difficult now (As in you won’t feel comfortable doing it). Previously I asked you to name your top three ideas. You did, and then everyone discussed them which led to a refocusing of many of your ideas and the birth of some new ones.

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole. Note I to found this very difficult but my one is blow. Also note I consider Wardrobe to be QOL, however any Wardrobe ideas that are Systemic or build on existing mechanics can be included.

Please also understand this is not a vote that leads to development, this is part of the ideation process. I would recommend looking at ideas that are built on existing systems or mechanics within the game. This is a nice to have however. Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.

Remember at the end of the day we are not going to give details on what is in dev or what we plan to build. We will talk about what we like however and thus knowing details about Feature Cost is interesting to know but should not be something that inadvertently hampers the CDI or your ideas.

My original three were:

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

And my top one is:

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

The other two were extremely close but I feel this one would have the best bang for buck for the community.

Finally note we are working on horizontal progression, with many of ideas (some of which may even be in this thread), so I can’t stress enough that this exercise is about further ideation focus refinement. Not a dev list.

Chris

Le Bump!

Chris

Bump.

Note I will create a Proposal for discussion based on everyone’s discussions and favorites once folks have more time to discuss and list theirs.

Chris

morrolan.9608:

How about some of the more egregious vertical progression imbalances get fixed before implementing purely horizontal progression suggestions such as the fixing ascended armor crafting so that it is more equitable instead of light armor taking 36 days to craft, medium armor 24 days and heavy armor 25 days due to the time gating on bolts of damask.

Hi Morrolan,

I will discuss this with Izzy when I get back to work on the 7th.

Chris

Shongaqu.5279:

cesmode.4257:

Chris, if you remember, I suggested something to this regard about global ongoing goals within the living story CDI thread. I think I titled it, global dominance where depending on how much of the world the players control, we receive certain benefits similar to WvW.

Hmmm tie the idea of global dominance to guild claiming of outposts in the open world and you would have a fascinating meta game that could involve the whole server. Small guilds of 5-10 could fortify camps and outposts while towns and forts would be available for larger guilds. It would cost influence and guild merits to claim an outpost and you would have to make sure the guild checked up on it at least once a day.

yes Malchior I got some of my sandbox ideas into the horizontal CDI I am sorry :P

Yes I remember this now along with a similar idea by Nike. Very cool ideas.

Chris

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

My number one would be “Zone Progression” / “Order Progression”

Something that gives players a purpose to explore the zones.

• A lot of people miss quests, my main guess why this is the case is: they miss stories. Dynamic Events are cyclical in nature, so those stories have no real end – climax if you want. Time to give your writers something more to do and let them design unique events.
• even the most simple idea could make people exited. Today I leveled in Kessex Hills when I saw a bear walking alongside a skritt. Awesome I thought… until I found out that I can’t interact with that npc at all; it’s just a guild mission boss. Why not spawn such rare characters (dozen of them, but rare spawns) in the open world, give them a loottable and a few interesting dialogue-options or even a small event associated.

Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.

…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).

summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………

People should have some goals for each of the zones. Not for the world in general (Legendary – mats from everywhere). Zelda reference: the Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, not everywhere in Hyrule.

This idea makes me excited, it could also tie into nearly every Horizontal Progression idea that has been put forward in this CDI.

It is just a good global ongoing goal to have, and one I think we have been doing but dependent on priorities could do a lot more of, especially from the point of view of using/evolving the Map Completion Meta Game system.

Chris

Chris, if you remember, I suggested something to this regard about global ongoing goals within the living story CDI thread. I think I titled it, global dominance where depending on how much of the world the players control, we receive certain benefits similar to WvW.

Hi Cesmode,

I certainly remember the title (Global Dominance) but am fuzzy on the details. I will go back and read the idea. Sorry for not remembering and calling this idea out to.

Chris

To be clear you guys and girls don’t have to pick the ones I put forward. I was just contributing to the thread with what I would like to see as a player. You can pick an ideas from the thread. Just wanted to make that clear.

Chris

KratosAngel.7289:

We have to choose only 1. Do we necessarily have to choose between those 3 ?

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.
— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.
— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

Or are there other choices ?

Also, would it be possible to have a CDI about fractals and ascended ? Because there’s soooo much more to talk about and do about it.

Yep those were just my top 3. You can create your own or pick from ideas from other CDI members etc.

And I am sure Fractals will be the topic of a CDI at some point.

Chris

2014 is going to be an amazing year for GW2 and the community!

Chris

Snipped from TheDaiBash

Thanking you.

Right…left…diagonal…

My one would probably have to be: Traits and Skill Progression.

Including, but not limited to:

On the Skills side of things:

and a note on providing a reason for new skills

[/quote]

Lot’s of really cool ideas here to. I really like the carpentry idea which you and others have mentioned in the past. In regard to the idea about bosses that learn. Do they learn within the world they reside in for example SoR or is it level based like in fractals or based on an item the group has (essentially gated)

Chris

Gaebriel.3754:

I think that the earlier mentioned Hero Recognition and Diversification is a great interpretation of the things I like most about Guild Wars 2, therefore I would definitely go with that! :-)

Though I’ll still waffle a bit on my favourite bits of this game, in the hope that it’ll be helpful in some way:

Fashion and customization:
Having more choice for dress up and personalizing characters would be awesome. I love coming up with new character ideas. So this includes more armour variety (especially for medium), town clothes, currently unobtainable sets (such as the PvP-only tribal set or shaman NPC animal hoods). Also, a better way to store them such as in a skin locker! Also I’d love to see a way to unlock the clothing and armour that’s already in the game but not yet for players to wear.

Lore and world:
Anything that ties our characters to the world or choices we made. For example the aforementioned Order missions would be awesome, or different factions we could support to unlock rewards. Rewards could tie in to customization again, armour, weapons, titles, unveiled mysteries, decorations for your home instance .. Perhaps an Elonian hairstyle for Order of Whispers, or a Raven Headdress for earning favour with the Norn Raven Spirit. Or an eyepatch, for supporting corsairs. Unlocking is good!

Skills and customization:
I’d love to see new skills, weapons, traits, everything. Perhaps also customizing the weapons we already have. For example, three different skills to choose from for your “number two” attack with a sword. The skills would be of similar power, but different, so people could diversify their builds with the existing weapons.

As a final note, I think your art design is absolutely amazing in every aspect of the game, so whatever you will do, seeing more of that is always a treat to me. ^^

I will pass on your kind words to the art team.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy New Year! Thanks for being so patient with me. Regarding other dev’s posting during this period it is unlikely as it is the holiday period and I don’t expect them to emulate my behavior.

Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).

I am up to date with all the posts, thanks for all hard work, ideation, and discussion.

We are in the process of pulling the net in now and so I am going to ask you all to do something very difficult now (As in you won’t feel comfortable doing it). Previously I asked you to name your top three ideas. You did, and then everyone discussed them which led to a refocusing of many of your ideas and the birth of some new ones.

What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole. Note I to found this very difficult but my one is blow. Also note I consider Wardrobe to be QOL, however any Wardrobe ideas that are Systemic or build on existing mechanics can be included.

Please also understand this is not a vote that leads to development, this is part of the ideation process. I would recommend looking at ideas that are built on existing systems or mechanics within the game. This is a nice to have however. Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.

Remember at the end of the day we are not going to give details on what is in dev or what we plan to build. We will talk about what we like however and thus knowing details about Feature Cost is interesting to know but should not be something that inadvertently hampers the CDI or your ideas.

My original three were:

— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

And my top one is:

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.

The other two were extremely close but I feel this one would have the best bang for buck for the community.

Finally note we are working on horizontal progression, with many of ideas (some of which may even be in this thread), so I can’t stress enough that this exercise is about further ideation focus refinement. Not a dev list.

Chris

Le Bump!

Chris

Randulf.7614:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Randulf.7614:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

My number one would be “Zone Progression” / “Order Progression”

Something that gives players a purpose to explore the zones.

• A lot of people miss quests, my main guess why this is the case is: they miss stories. Dynamic Events are cyclical in nature, so those stories have no real end – climax if you want. Time to give your writers something more to do and let them design unique events.
• even the most simple idea could make people exited. Today I leveled in Kessex Hills when I saw a bear walking alongside a skritt. Awesome I thought… until I found out that I can’t interact with that npc at all; it’s just a guild mission boss. Why not spawn such rare characters (dozen of them, but rare spawns) in the open world, give them a loottable and a few interesting dialogue-options or even a small event associated.

Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.

…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).

summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………

People should have some goals for each of the zones. Not for the world in general (Legendary – mats from everywhere). Zelda reference: the Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, not everywhere in Hyrule.

This idea makes me excited, it could also tie into nearly every Horizontal Progression idea that has been put forward in this CDI.

It is just a good global ongoing goal to have, and one I think we have been doing but dependent on priorities could do a lot more of, especially from the point of view of using/evolving the Map Completion Meta Game system.

Chris

I think this idea is pretty much reflecting the ethos of the game as well. I find myself often just wanting to wander the game (actually I’m doing that now whilst I break to catch up on this thread) – you don’t need me or anyone else to tell you how wonderful the game is just to explore as a setting. Someone suggested in another thread the game feels “sterile”, which is perhaps too harsh a word, but they could be more alive with so much more bustle going on in them.

I think the above suggestion would transform the game to a level beyond any other mmo and be hard to compete with too.

Yeah I read that thread to. Its interesting how a Living World Event can feel more ‘Alive’ than exploration in some maps. I think the fact that Living World events are tied directly into achievements that reflect the theme of the story contribute to this.

This is why I like Marcus’s idea so much. It builds on existing systems and content and is more of a philosophy than a specific work task.

Chris

It’s partly why dynamic events are such an overwhelming strength of the game, especially over an archaeic qst system. The events tell the worlds’ story not the character’s. If you go on holiday to the same country every year, there will always be something different – places change over time and people change even if only in the background. That’s what every zone should aim to achieve even if it isn’t part of the current main story.

Aaaand I’ve realised I’ve gone off topic into a diff CDI here

I don’t think we are off topic and it is a really interesting discussion. I will however bump the post I made about the next phase of this CDI so other’s realize what we are doing.

Chris

timmyf.1490:

I have an idea for you, Chris. One which might seem a little radical, but here goes:

Have an all-(relevant)-hands-on-deck release with the entire (relevant) development team building new Dynamic Events. Shoot for the moon: dozens or hundreds of new Dynamic Events. Call it a “Game Changer” because it is literally changing the game world.

Based on various loose-lipped comments I’ve heard, you have something big planned in the next few months. Why not follow it with a huge overhaul to the in-game world? Give everybody a reason to go back out and explore again.

And then… repeat. 3-6 months down the road, cycle out 100+ events and add 100+ new ones. And repeat. And repeat. That’s a real “living world.”

I think that’s a really interesting idea TimmyF.

……..’nuff said (-:

Chris

Randulf.7614:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

My number one would be “Zone Progression” / “Order Progression”

Something that gives players a purpose to explore the zones.

• A lot of people miss quests, my main guess why this is the case is: they miss stories. Dynamic Events are cyclical in nature, so those stories have no real end – climax if you want. Time to give your writers something more to do and let them design unique events.
• even the most simple idea could make people exited. Today I leveled in Kessex Hills when I saw a bear walking alongside a skritt. Awesome I thought… until I found out that I can’t interact with that npc at all; it’s just a guild mission boss. Why not spawn such rare characters (dozen of them, but rare spawns) in the open world, give them a loottable and a few interesting dialogue-options or even a small event associated.

Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.

…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).

summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………

People should have some goals for each of the zones. Not for the world in general (Legendary – mats from everywhere). Zelda reference: the Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, not everywhere in Hyrule.

This idea makes me excited, it could also tie into nearly every Horizontal Progression idea that has been put forward in this CDI.

It is just a good global ongoing goal to have, and one I think we have been doing but dependent on priorities could do a lot more of, especially from the point of view of using/evolving the Map Completion Meta Game system.

Chris

I think this idea is pretty much reflecting the ethos of the game as well. I find myself often just wanting to wander the game (actually I’m doing that now whilst I break to catch up on this thread) – you don’t need me or anyone else to tell you how wonderful the game is just to explore as a setting. Someone suggested in another thread the game feels “sterile”, which is perhaps too harsh a word, but they could be more alive with so much more bustle going on in them.

I think the above suggestion would transform the game to a level beyond any other mmo and be hard to compete with too.

Yeah I read that thread to. Its interesting how a Living World Event can feel more ‘Alive’ than exploration in some maps. I think the fact that Living World events are tied directly into achievements that reflect the theme of the story contribute to this.

This is why I like Marcus’s idea so much. It builds on existing systems and content and is more of a philosophy than a specific work task.

Chris