Guild Wars 2

On Oct 23, HOT is going to go live, but … When? Will it be midnight as the day rolls over ? Will it be during normal daily reset time ? Is there a weird time picked out ?

Also when it does, will we have to relog? Will we have to DL a patch ? Will a switch simply be flipped at X time and now we can enter the jungle without an error message ?

Any information would be great.

Josh Davis.6015:

As a note (and to address concerns), we won’t be adding dire stats or perplexity runes to sPvP.

I would like to ask you reconsider this and add them but tone down the numbers to a balanced state (since that’s what spvp is meant to be about). Largely because excluding some thing for being too strong when you can easily just weaken it or revamp it lowers the potential build diversity. It’s also worth mentioning there are a lot of complaints around this in WvW pvp, and bringing it to Spvp might result in some changes what would benefit both game modes IE sinister getting condi duration as a stat over power and duration food being removed from the game, making dire less powerful in wvw.

Josh Davis.6015:

I’ll also mention that we’re going to be changing the 6/6 bonus on Vampirism. After HoT launch it will no longer proc Mist Form at 25% hp, but will instead cast an AoE lifesteal to up to 5 nearby targets. This will reduce the binary defensive nature of the rune and bring it more inline with similar sets.

Another thing I would like you guys to reconsider, as some one who doesn’t like getting bursted out without any way to react this rune is a way to lower my overall power, but gain a way to survive the current state of Chrono’s and reapers.

So once HOT is released, will leagues be available right away ? Or will the first league come out a few weeks perhaps months down the road? If so, will there be a balance patch to the game before the first league comes out ?

I mostly ask this because as some one who participated in the beta, there are some glaring imbalances (Heck Joel even mentioned one on the live stream yesterday) and I am hoping they are worked on before leagues hit the scene.

Reroll ele, be the true “Two spam” class. Have more of every thing then a thief, while be able to fight safely at range.

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

John Smith.4610:

Ashen.2907:

John Smith.4610:

Q.
why are you nerfing the income of players who prefer your old content over your new content? I for one don’t care much for raids but really enjoy dungeons..

A.
We don’t intend to nerf income, just shift where most players derive their income. You won’t be forced into raids in order to earn value though.

Players who enjoy playing dungeons will have either lower income or will have to play content they do not enjoy as much in order to maintain their existing level of income.

The only way you can accurately claim that you did not intend to nerf their income is to state that you intended to reduce their enjoyment of the game instead.

Edit for clarification: I did not mean you personally, but rather the collective of those who made the decision.

This is called false dilemma. I think you should probably restate this.

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons

Is the intention to reduce targeted liquid gold earning, or are you putting that liquid somewhere else thats targetable?

What type of instanced content do you see offering marketable rewards that players can take part in on a regular basis?

do you see players seeking to earn main methods being through open world and tp trading

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
Yes

Is there any particular reason you guys have for making dungeons obsolete?

Since you want to increase que times on dungeons and make them obsolete, why not just remove them entirely?

Have you given any thought to the fact that (depending on how low the reward is) any one with dungeon master will ignore the existence of dungeons?

Have you considered players who have dungeon master won’t bother with dungeons any more and therefore you’re effectively reducing the replayable value of some content?

My two cents: This is a bad idea. I know if dungeon rewards dropped by 40% or more, I probably won’t touch them again because there will be better places to spend my time, and I really feel for those trying to complete acheivements while no one is bothering with the dungeon content.

Not to mention one of my favorite things about GW2 has always been that all content is relevant in some way. Dungeons have always been aimed at gold / fun with friends, the former will be removed from the equation.

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s clear from your other posts that you’re discussing PvE dungeon stacking, while i’m talking PvP. look up any S/D PvP video and find one that CnD is used at any point. at best, you’ll find someone using it to stealth themselves before a stomp.

Both. Watch a good SD and you will see them periodically use CnD to either disengage or daze their target.

BrunoBRS.5178:

so staff needs to be like S/P, instead of, you know, just using S/P. why do you want another weapon that does the same thing? that’s such a stupid, self-defeating argument. you have S/P if you want to pulse blinds on stupid mobs while cleaving, you don’t need another weapon that does the same thing. and hell, it’s freaking dungeon stacking. anyone can do the blind for you. even the necro.

“never see PvE play” is a silly line, because all you’re talking about is how it needs a skill like black powder just so that you can use it in a very specific part of a very specific type of PvE content.

That’s just it. S/P will be used 100% of the time over staff. Staff will NEVER see pve play. Trash packs / blood lust stacking? S/p for blinds will be superior. Boss fights? DD will be superior. Open world content? Both sword and D/p come with really effective gap closers for movement. Staff would be like pistols. Used because you’re bored, but not used for their effectiveness, and this doesn’t just go for pve either. In pvp, at the absolute minimum staff needs the smoke field other wise it’s just completely out classed.

I had posted an idea a while back, to make staff provide multiple fields on each ability (Short 1-2 second duration fields) combine that with dash becoming a leap finisher and bounding a blast — Staff now has a unique play style. Field — > Finisher. Could give it smoke, dark, and maybe fire? Acess to burning bolts now, might, fire aura, life steal stealth ect ect ect.

But again the minimum is smoke on staff 4, to allow for team support and setting up burst for your other members.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Christonya.3856:

Or….. Add a smoke field to staff 4, making staff viable in pve, giving staff some much needed utility, and allowing us to bound / vault in it for stealth to set up the stealth hit.

and then you have a skill that’s exactly like black powder, but better.

for christ’s sake, people, i know we’ve been stuck with D/P for long, but can you really not think of any way to play thief that doesn’t involve leaping through smoke fields?

Not better, the same. The point is to carry forward a mechanic that is NECESSARY. Right now, in pve, when fighting trash you almost always run S/P and keep BP down 100% of the time to constantly apply blinds, staff will never see pve play due to the lack of utility. Furthermore smoke fields are the ‘stealth combo’ fields. Soooooooooooo Yeah, it has to be smoke, nothing else would work.

BrunoBRS.5178:

again, the sword mainhand sets both see good play with zero stealth. S/D can get in stealth, but no S/D player with half a brain will ever do it.

Only bringing this up due to how insanely false it is. If you want to give out information and argue points, at least try to be correct.

…. No. Just give DD’s a way to gain stealth for a short duration. It would also add to their ability to disengage which increases survivalbility.

Star.8401:

D/P thieves will still be useful because of their mobility and how quickly they can eliminate someone from a fight

Revenant. Can keep up with thieves. Reveal thieves. Deal as much damage as thieves… while having a lot more survivalbility.

Psst. Sneak gyro is less of a concern as lock on…. also I think you completely forgot about taunt…. And revs.

Better idea: Make “Reveal” Skills SHOW the player, but not prevent him from gaining stealth. So, for example…. I use shadow refuge, and an engineer uses their new stealth gyro AOE reveal ability…. He can now see me, watch me move, keep tabs on me BUT I am still in stealth and can still backstab him.

Alright so, you’re asking two questions here.

One: Will DP lose it’s effectiveness in HOT? Yes. Stealth builds are being heavily gutted by: Not being improved in ways they need to be improve, being ignored, and the game receiving a lot of extremely hard counters to stealth play (Engi’s, taunt ect)

Two: Will DD be necessary for DP thieves? No. It will not. However DD / trickery / Sarts will likely be our best available build in HOT unless staff or or s/d or some thing improves past it.

Either way it’s all moot with how broken AF some of the other elite specializations are, thieves in general likely won’t be viable till the first major balancing patch / the second season of leagues.

Miss leading title. This build is not at all viable. It might be fun, it might kill people, but against top of the line players using proper builds, you won’t do any thing. Heck if I saw you on my DP thief / DD … I would have you dead before you could do any thing.

Rain.9213:

The problem with this is that it just becomes Dagger/Pistol, though. Staff is supposed to be the evasive weapon set with no easy access to stealth.

Welcome to the world of poor implimentation. S/D is our evasive weapon set. Acro is our evasive trait line. Note the problems with the DD? — As it stands, giving it a smoke filed would NOT make it become DP, due to the lack of in stealth burst. Instead you’ll want to fight out in the open, and only stealth if you want the CC.

+ For pve viability, it needs the smoke field else we’re using SP no matter what.

Or slap a smoke field on it. Giving DDs the ability to lay down a constantly pulsing defensive field as well as the ability to bound / vault in it for for stealth to set up burst via stealth 1… and you can weakning charge in it for a whirl, or lotus, ect.

knyy.6427:

i like the idea of dash getting the leap and bound the blast finisher, but all the different fields on staff would be too strong, especially the smoke one.
the playstyle would be indeed interesting though.

I call your attention to Reapers and chronos.

I highly doubt this would be stronger then either class, and it would make for a better elite spec for thieves.

So I have a question for every one….

What if dash become the leap finisher, bounding dodge was a blast, and staff gained 3-4 extremely short (1-2 second) fields attached to it ?

IE static on weakening charge.

Smoke on staff 4.

Dark(?) on staff 3.

And maybe one on the final staff auto attack?

Could create a really interesting playstyle of dropping a field then activating it with either vault or a dodge.

Karl McLain.5604:

For trait mods, we’d like to experiment with Weakening Strikes slightly, adding a secondary to it within its role of debilitation. Options we’re looking at it:

• Inflict X (torment, bleeding, something) when you weaken a foe.
  or
  * Receive less damage from weakened foes.

Once again, thanks for your continued constructive feedback. It’s greatly appreciated.

-Karl

Making us take less damage from weakened foes, and giving the trait 100% up time (lasts 5 seconds, 5 second CD must remain on target to reapply though) it could be a really effective trait especially since it would promote constantly sitting on the target.

alicatrawz.9567:

inb4qq

awesome!
curious to know if the staff skills are also getting some work done on them. i still want a circular darkfield on staff 4 /sadface.

Smoke. If it doesn’t get smoke, it won’t be usable for cleave / trash situations in fractals / raids. If it doesn’t get smoke, we’ll still be forced into s/p.

OH and smoke gives us a way to gain stealth (from bounding) gives us blinding whirls, and of course, lets us set up for a stealth attack, to set up burst.

Eleandra.4859:

I followed this thread stating different numbers:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/What-is-Staff-good-for/first#post5569279

I did not verify them though.

But Arachnid even though I do not like his attitude usually checks his numbers beforehand

Dagger auto is slightly behind but you have to account for CnD + backstab damage (CnD = vault cost, half damage BS = greater damage both can be done in about the same vault cast time). Then of course heartseeker which does immense damage after the 25% mark. This combined with weakening charges inability to land all hits all the time put dagger ahead. Or at least should. Without a functioning dps meter in the game it’s hard to tell.

Eleandra.4859:

Staff:
Staff has good damage, better than dagger/dagger actually

This is false. D/D still has FAR greater single target dps. Staff is actually higher then swords damage in aoe cleaving situations…. But you know, no blind field, no utility, not worth it.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Christonya.3856:

Considering the DD is acrobatics only… better. Merge it with acro and make a new elite spec. There’s still time, and it is what Anet should do.

Keep in mind I am not saying DD is bad per se, I am saying that we already had it, just a less cool more functional version of it.

Valid point there, it does feel like acrobatics 2.0

Also keep in mind staff was meant to supplement an evasive brawler type play style, both SD and SP exist.

Before DD was announced we had people speculating on the weapon, some said rifle, I said: Nope, doesn’t really fit, would be rather stupid too.

Some… Said staff and I immediately shot them down too for two reasons: One giving us any 2h weapon would be incredibly lazy (due to our unique mechanic of dual skills WHICH WAS IGNORED AFTER ALL) and more importantly, staff would clash against SD and one would always be better then the other, preventing the others viability.

Combine this with the fact that DD brings nothing to the thief base class besides … more damage, the DD as a whole is poorly implemented. We NEEDED to get a more supportive type line or a straight tanky line and staff needed a much clearer roll such as a support or ranged caster type thing.

I had always felt like giving us a shadow caster elite, making the line about shadow magic with some poison power in it would have been perfect, especially with DD and acro getting merged…

This would allow us to choose between acrobatics or Sarts for our defensive line, our new elite shadow caster line with 1200 range, supportive abilities, a ranged teleport (pmuch a sbow replacement without removing our mobility), and could have given us a new f skill. It could have also been heavily based on larceny and stealing boons to give to ourselves and allies, and ‘planting’ conditions on people ect.

Or it could have simply been what the Shiro rev is, and we could have gotton a sword in the off hand.

Considering the DD is acrobatics only… better. Merge it with acro and make a new elite spec. There’s still time, and it is what Anet should do.

Keep in mind I am not saying DD is bad per se, I am saying that we already had it, just a less cool more functional version of it.

My BEST advice: Enjoy the base game. Wait for the first balance patch, if DD sees some good quality changes, purchase HOT.

Other wise, play your ele. Keep in mind that tempest is suppose to be pretty meh in general, but ele has and most likely will always be very good.

Farzo.8410:

Don’t walk into them, or just dodge into them.

Tried that. At the end of my dodge roll I took 30k damage.

It’s got alright damage but feels like p/p sure you can do damage, but is it viable? No. At minimum it needs a smoke field on 4 for combos, access to stealth ability, and mitigation in pve scenario’s other wise s/p beats it out there.

Since we’re getting to the end of the current beta weekend and the DD is still in a pretty poor place… I feel bumping this post is fair.

Don’t buy HOT until the first balance patch. Best advice I can give you. If you wana pvp or play the base game in the mean time, go ahead and attach an energy sigil to your weapon, and vola, you`re playing the DD.

Damage. That’s about it, without a field attached to it however it’s utility is none existent and it won’t see much use.

Pretty poor. Comparatively speaking. The current DP thief is probably going to be meta over DD any thing, except with all the reveal mechanics and stealth hate DP probably won’t be viable, as such thief is seemingly going to get completely phased out of the meta.

As it stands, DP thief will still be better. So no. But by your rational all other elite specs are.

DeceiverX.8361:

I see that more of a berserker mechanic than one for the thief/DD :P

DD needs better endurance regen. An extra dodge is great and all, but it’s not worth an entire trait line. Anyone can just run Signet of Agility’s active and get the same results basically. It would be a fair thing to add more of it to the spec, but then it negates the purpose of Acro.

A buffed Acro and DD would be nigh unkillable, though when combined.

It’s pretty much a necessary evil for DD and Acro being bad individually as long as they’re designed around the same principles, which unfortunately means that all combinations of trait lines with the two combined will suffer from lack of damage or utility from trickery.

There’s no mechanically good solution for this spec in regards to its integration with the rest of the thief and as long as it overrides but simultaneously synergizes with Acro.

Yeah, DD and acro clash. SD and staff clash. Our elite spec is … not well implemented given our already available tools. My idea was mainly meant to add some forgiveness to a missed dodge, since we don’t have that as a DD. As a thief, we have stealth.

Plus it sounded cool in my head. Run around.. dodging stuff.. being extremely hard to kill while constantly swatting you with my stick…

Ignarel.7916:

That’s…not acrobatic at all. It’s literally facetanking!

It’s meant to be a way to solve the issue with evading 90% of attacks, then getting CCed and having a single grave digger connect, and instantly killing you. It’s staying power without giving DD a ton of protection and regeneration like DD eles.

It is a leap finisher. And really it would be better off as a blast since you can stealth allies with it or gain might when fighting with an ele ect.

A lot of people have commented on the DD being the class that got “A built in energy sigil” that is technically worse due to the fact that it only procs instantly at the start of the fight and never again … So what if they got another unique mechanic that played into them…

So I came up with this dumb idea: Shrug

Now Shrug would be our f3 ability and would be entirely unique to the DD and the style of ‘reckless’ situations they want to get themselves into.

What Shrug does is allows us to shrug off the damage we take, causing us to slowly take it over 10 seconds instead of immediately. In addition Shrug (Our f3) is an active that completely wipes all the Shrugged damage.

So, for an extreme situation: The enemy team attempts a stealth opener, you’re out in the open at mid point…. They all jump on you, CCing and bursting you. They do 40k damage to you instantly. Well, that 40k damage is dealt over 10 seconds due to Shrug so for the first second you only take 4k damage, not 40k. As such you’re then able to stun break, withdraw and Shrug the damage, completely clearing it.

It’s sort of like having a second health pool (Like having death shroud) except in some situations it’s weaker (low damage / 1v1s) and in others it’s much stronger (high damage 5v1’s).

It also plays into the acrobatic play style of avoiding big hits and when you fail to or get CCed the damage is dealt slowly enough you arn’t instantly taken out of the fight, you can stay in there and keep going OR if it was a big enough hit you can Shrug it. In addition it works with a stealthy DD build as taking Shrugged damage in stealth is far safer then out in the open.

After testing yesterday I came to the conclusion thieves will not be able to adequately play the roll of a bunker or a ‘bruiser’. Without a way constantly generate boons such as regeneration or protection a single hit is enough to kitten your existence since you’re still just too dam squishy.

My theory so far, after both beta weekends is that DP is still going to be our only playable spec, either with what we have now or DD trick and Sarts, but due to all the stealth hate and reveal additions DP won’t function so… Thieves won’t be a part of the meta for the first season.

Pros: Dodges feel amazing now. Least dash / bounding, I havnt tried lotus yet.

Con: Staff still lacks disengage, fields to use our finishers, and no way to utilize it’s stealth skill. A smoke field or a stealth attachment to staff 4 would solve … All of these actually.

Nocta.5274:

Christonya.3856:

-Initial thoughts-

Not going to lie. I don’t at all feel survivalble with the DD. That said I think most of the issues with the DD atm are either QOL problems or other classes.

IE I feel insanely squishy on my DD, more so then I should . . . . But I noticed a trend ,that really only occurred when fighting reapers.

That said, I feel the DD does need more innate sustain, and merging the ‘on dodge remove condi’ trait with the heal on evade would really be advisable.

We also lack any sort of strong disengage tools, we can kinda get by with steal as our engage, but having no way of backing out of a fight is really debilitating.

Dash twice + 1 shortbow 5 and you’re disengaged from anything.

What if you don’t take dash? If dash is your only disengage it makes it mandatory, which is bad, options are good.

-Initial thoughts-

Not going to lie. I don’t at all feel survivalble with the DD. That said I think most of the issues with the DD atm are either QOL problems or other classes.

IE I feel insanely squishy on my DD, more so then I should . . . . But I noticed a trend ,that really only occurred when fighting reapers.

That said, I feel the DD does need more innate sustain, and merging the ‘on dodge remove condi’ trait with the heal on evade would really be advisable.

We also lack any sort of strong disengage tools, we can kinda get by with steal as our engage, but having no way of backing out of a fight is really debilitating.

- Does daredevil feel unique from thief (given that acro has changed, please avoid comparing to pre June thief)? Can you create fun and useful builds with the tools it provides?

No. It feels like a better version of an existing trait line (Acrobatics)

- How does thief (not daredevil) fare against daredevil and other classes introduced in HoT. Keep in mind, all elites and even base specs have received significant changes since the last BWE. Please give feedback based on this weekend and not past experiences.

Thief feels pretty much the same, point decapper with low survivalbility, however due to power creep on other classes, thief feels inferior out side of their decapping job.

- State one thing you really like about daredevil.

Damage leap finisher dodge.

- State one thing you dislike/want changed about daredevil.

#Jerkmode. The whole thing, it still feels like a better acrobatics, which overshadows acrobatics, and theres conflict between staff and SD as both are meant to fill the same roll meaning that one will always over shadow the other, putting the class in constant conflict.

Final thoughts: At least we arn’t reaper. Reaper, soul reaping. Two mandatory trait lines in the current state of things.

Nerf the only thing that makes thief good ?

You are aware if they nerfed it, we wouldn’t get buffed to compensate and the one and only thing we can accomplish right now would be gone and we would become the worst class in the game by an overwhelming margin.

That and, SB 5 isn’t a problem. The problem is we don’t have another support weapon for our swap AKA if acrobatics… I mean DD, had been some thing like shadow caster and staff had been a caster / support weapon………

Mine:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV8Yl0MhSnYlTwwJw/EL+EmXTYJEF2CAvmz0cAMBGBB-TVCEABLq+DBHMgtUCawFAoJlf5s/Qb6eA4IE8wDUIAACwv9N+mv5bf7bf7oH9oH9oHtf7bf7bf7bSBExQL-w

Pros: High damage, high survival

Cons : Not thief.

Yes and no.

No we still have our uses, running from point to point afking most of the match decapping / capping things that have no defense.

Yes we’re pretty much the worst 1v1 class in the game, have arguably the weakest survivalbility, our elite spec is just a retooled acrobatics and yes we seem to be being phased out of the meta entirely.

When I thought about this, the best I came up with was: P 4 + 5 are fine so re work the initial ones. Pistol should be a condi weapon. With that in mind:

p/p 3 unload renamed: Scatter shot. Teleport to your target, unload an explosion of buckshot (causing high bleeding) then shadow step back to your original location before the back fire. (The back fire causes you to release a blast and I toyed with the idea of the utility BP but that seemed too strong) This allows p/p to have some maneuverability, and most importantly a way to gain stealth 5 —> 3 (so some survivalbility position and access to stealth 1)

Pistol 1: Turn this into a 3 part attack. First applies bleeding second torment last poison in addition to our poison GM in DA being made to work with our condi weapon (pistol) this would give pistol a way to stack condi’s more consistently.

pistol 2: largely remains the same, maybe tack torment on it.

Patch notes are coming. We’re hurting. Our elite spec is easily the worst of them all.

Pistol damage buffs.

Enjoy being a point decapper and being phased out of the meta complete.

Fade.5904:

Christonya.3856:

S/D will never be brought back, because staff exists now. If SD is good, staff won’t be, and vica versa, but since our elite spec is centered around staff… Staff is going to be good, not SD.

SD can be good it just needs its role defining more.
Crippling Strike should also remove a boon (not steal)

Larcenous Strike reverted back to stealing 2 boons and precastable

This would give some control over which boons you steal and help with this boon power creep every class seems to have now (which is getting worse with elite specs)

Infiltrators Strike/Return needs initiative cost reducing or conditions removed increasing to 2 (also remove range restriction on infiltrators return back to how it used to be to fix the terrain issues, its so much clunkier than it used to be)

The old changes may have been justified when they were done but when traits were reworked made builds much more powerful, reverting the old changes would be a nice start helping SD thief have a role.

MAN. Those sound like great ideas!…. And would completely over shadow staffs existence as the none stealth weapon.

Which is what I said.

SD and staff will always clash, and the one that is better will over shadow the other.

thegreatbronk.6890:

Bring S/D back? It was never lost.

I have also played S/D since way back and have stayed with it throughout all of its changes. The changes to Sword 2 were acceptable and the changes to FS weren’t that bad. It was weird to get used to at first and it was easily spammable if you missed it, but it really just forced you to land FS and to be more accurate when using it. FS being spammable also allows you to use this skill as an evade more effectively imo.

As for S/D being a passive set, I think that has more to do with the thief’s play style, attitude and the enemy they’re fighting. It doesn’t have to be passive at all. While it does have less burst than other sets, it has many great things about it as well. My whole approach to S/D has been sustain. Damage over time. Out-living and out-playing your opponent as well as utilizing the CC and mobility the set gives you. The state of the game forces us to play this way (well from my experience). You can’t often go out and burst people down right away anymore. It’s all about CC and stunbreakers. I have 4 stuns and 3 stunbreaks ready to go. The hardest fight I have is Condi Mesmer and Burn Guards and that’s really just because those builds are what they are.

Acro also isn’t as bad as people say it is. I honestly like it more than the old Acro. The new acro gives you Hard to Catch (Improved) and Don’t Stop. They’re great traits compared to what I used before just because that’s all that was really useful (Fleet of Foot and Quick Pockets). The nerf to Feline Grace isn’t that bad. You don’t need all those dodges if you use them as needed. Especially with S/D. Acro is still a great traitline and people really need to see that.

I run DA/Acro/Trickery with Valk Armor and Zerk Everything else. Pack Runes. I focus on perma Fury/Swift/Might and try to use stuns to break my enemy’s rotation.

I invite anyone to check out my build video that I posted the day after the June 23rd Patch;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkfvePTjBjI

As for results I have 2 post-patch roaming videos;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVacSFkxEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULl62omaHw

(newest)

S/D is in very much great shape. It’s all about who wields it and how. I wish people didn’t look so dimly on it. As for the state of the thief class itself against other classes…well that’s a different story.

My 2 changes would be;
- More HP
- (For S/D) Make Infiltrator’s Return remove at least 2 conditions instead of one.

In wvw it works fine, where you have extra stats. In spvp it’s damage is none existantly low.

S/D will never be brought back, because staff exists now. If SD is good, staff won’t be, and vica versa, but since our elite spec is centered around staff… Staff is going to be good, not SD.

PopeUrban.2578:

What if acrobatics had all of the thief’s endurance related traits, but did not add effects to dodge, and Daredevil traits focused in stead on enhancing dodge, physicals, or staff exclusively?.

Acro would suck. Acro would have to be paired with DD to be useful. DD would still be a fancy name for acro.

There is no way for DD in it’s current set up to work, because all the traits could be thrown into the acro line and no one would even notice the difference.

That’s the problem. You look at the DD line and say: This is acro right? Oh wait, this is our elite? What…?

“Some times weeks before it’s suppose to be done, you might realize this thing isn’t working we need to throw it out and do it all over again.”

Yesterday, Colin said this, this is a direct quote during the legendary journey reveal.

Dare devil trait line, is acrobatics.

Staff is meant to be an evasive type weapon set which we already have in S/d.

Our new “unique” mechanic is an extra dodge, which two days ago, we were informed by Irenio during the twitch live stream, that dodging won’t be enough for raids.

Dare devil is aimed at being a dps trait line, meaning our elite doesnt open up options as a support or utility class.

Right now, a lot of thieves are looking at other elite’s and saying: MAN! This looks so GOOD and creative! …. I might have to reroll mains… Where as other classes are excited for their elite specialization. I have seen a few, very very few comments about ‘hope’ that the dare devil might be what they want, but out side of that I don’t see any one excited about rerolling thief for HOT.

Combined that with the large amount of frustration and general despair going on, on the forums… I think it’s clear, thing’s are not working.

When I was watching the legendary reveal, it looked like a lot of fun to run around, and slowly put together all the legendaries (It will be my first mastery line once I unlock the glider)… But I felt pretty sad when I thought about the state of my class, and where my class is going. To which I was met with the quote from Colin here in my post.

This might be one of those situations. The DD is clearly not up to snuff. It’s clearly choking acrobatics while trying to be what acro simply could be.

I believe it needs to be thrown out, and done over again. Why give us a trait line we already have? Why can’t we have a shadow magic trait line? Or a play style closer to Shiro revenants? (When I saw shiro, I thought to myself: Wait, shouldn’t THIEVES get this??"

All classes deserve to get an elite specialization that feels truly elite. I hope the developers agree, and I hope the “Dare Devil” or the “Assassin” or the “Shadow caster” what ever we happen to get feels as good to play as the reaper does, or the chronomancer.