I don’t think I am being too absurd to say they really should roll the DD stuff (the extra dodge ect) into acrobatics and completely remake our kitten elite spec from the ground up, giving us a second roll for us to perform.
I like the idea of the Daredevil mechanics and I wouldn’t want to lose that playstyle just yet. I think DD would have been fun as a more reserved build up to an explosive execution with the staff or by hand like with Fist flurry. It would put some distance between DD and Acro and given the opportunity to re-route some of those acrobatic mechanics back into the Acro line.
The problem is, no matter what, the DD will be pretty much just a better acro trait line. The only way to fix that is to merge the two (keeping the DD play style but attached to acro .. as they are one and the same as is), and then give us a REAL elite specialization that is entirely unique but plays into the thief. A stealthy shadow caster would have been INSANE and if done right it could have easily drawn the attention the chrono, reaper, druid, and scrapper have. Instead we might have other specs considering rerolling thief, rather then us rerolling reaper.
To top it all off our new class ‘mechanic’ is one extra dodge. Which we were flat out told today, that dodging isn’t going to be enough in the newer content.
This is the biggest problem, right here. Clearly there is some heavy miscommunication going on at arenanet because this tidbit confirms that the daredevil spec is completely worthless.
The thief elite spec and HoT content is being developed in such a way that the two are incompatible. And the result is that thieves are screwed. This is even more outrageous than the sneak gyro or the druid’s super speed stealth.
It’s funny too, cause my first experience in HOT content last BWE was the personal story bit where the mobs put torment on me. And I died to the torment. Because my class still lacks good condi clear…. And now I am being told my extra dodge ain’t going to do kitten for me as well…. I don’t think I am being too absurd to say they really should roll the DD stuff (the extra dodge ect) into acrobatics and completely remake our kitten elite spec from the ground up, giving us a second roll for us to perform.
Can we see the dev’s working on the other elite specs collaborate with the dev working on thief in hopes that maybe, just maybe, the DD will at least be on par with many of the other elite specs? By on par I mean in terms of: Unique animations, unique skills, improved tools, and just in general a far more appealing class then it is now.
Sure am happy to have my extra dodge ability… yay -_-
YEAH! Especially since it was outlined that dodging isn’t going to be enough in hot content, woo.
No you don’t. Pick any other class, trust me, you’ll be less disappointed when HOT hits.
How are we going to cope with this?
Reroll.
So… We have all these cool new elite specializations doing all these cool new things. New cool effects, new cool abilities, brand new traits that are designed in a lot of ways, to make up for the base classes faults…..
And then there’s the dare devil. Recycled animations. A trait line, that is pretty much the same as an existing traitline (Acro) that made that existing traitline worthless. It got some nice things, not much. It kept thieves in the same position of mobile decapper, thieves still have no options out side of dps, some of our biggest draw backs were never addressed …
To top it all off our new class ‘mechanic’ is one extra dodge. Which we were flat out told today, that dodging isn’t going to be enough in the newer content.
So im confused. It feels like, our elite specialization is just an improved form of our trait line acrobatics. That’s it. Nothing cool, nothing unique, nothing game changing, just an extra dodge, and again, an improved already existing trait line.
……
Perhaps rolling the current DD stuff into acrobatics and redesigning the DD into (insert new name here) class that uses a 1200 range staff with shadow magic and gets all sorts of new and exciting and unique animations, abilities, some support capabilities (so the class isn’t pure dps) and so on might be a more appropriate idea?
My level of excitement for this expansion dwindles each day when I think about playing my main in HOT, and improves when I consider rerolling necro, then dwindles again when I realize the play style I want is only available to the thief (stealth bursty sneaky).
I’m still not 100% sure why they are releasing glaringly problematic skills into the game, my assumption is they want to add counter play to stealth engages, if so, thats fine. But they need to give thieves and improved stealth that you only get revealed from, when you deal damage. Simple as that. So they can have these scrappers reveal the thieves team, but not him, and hes able to do as he is intended, position and stab some one.
This is literally every 1v1 for thief since the patch. We are good at two things: Mobility, and tossing out a backstab on a kill target before leaving to decap some thing.
If you’re trying to 1v1 any thing, you’re playing the class wrong, and I would suggest trying to play ele instead as 1v1ing all day is their job.
And before we start nerfing things for 8 other classes, making alot of other players frustrated
This is literally what needs to be done. Not because thieves are “too weak” but because a lot of the other classes are too strong. Not to mention some elite specs (Chrono / reaper) are going to make further problems.
All classes by design should have strengths and weaknesses and they should be around even, however for thieves, they have more weaknesses then strengths… To contrast, mesmers have more strengths then weaknesses.
The only real improvements thieves need, is to other weapon sets besides DP, and some trait improvements to allow for more customization, because as is, we’re pigeon hold into taking trickery, DA, and for as long as condi’s are as absurdly strong as they are SA for what condi clense we can get. Further more, acro was torn to shreds and is being re-released to us as “Dare Devil” which, unfortunately, is not smart from a design POV as it means we have acro, and better acro for trait lines, and if they improve acro to the point where it’s better then DD, DD stops being used. It’s the same issue I kept telling people when they were asking for staff thief… S/D is the play style they want from staff, meaning we have two weapons that do virtually the same thing… So one will always be better and one will always be worse, as we saw last BWE when DDs were using SD over staff because staff was too weak.
So thieves have been suffering quite a bit since the specialization patch, from a pvp perspective, in terms of pve we largely remained the same.
The one thing that has kept us really relivent, was stealth, shadow refuge on our team providing us with a lot of stealth, and allowing for a more tactical opening. I am currently watching the Scrapper POI and the elite skill has just been shown. It’s a better, mobile, version of the only thing that really keeps us on teams, with this we’re left with our mobility, and nothing else…. The DD elite specialization has felt vastly inferior to many other elite specs…
So I am starting to wonder, is this the final nail in the coffin? Will the scrapper take over the only thing we’re bringing to a team?
Not to mention all the new skills coming into the games that are forcing reveal, which negates the only survivability thieves have.
(edited by Christonya.3856)
The main problem I have with this event, is that the only way to gain max rewards from it is to aoe a pack of mobs and immediately run off to the next, it’s an event system that seriously encourages leeching and what GW2 is NOT about, selfishness. It’s part of why I love this game, see some one tackling a large creature? Help them, you get rewarded exp, loot, maybe event an event completion.
As it stands, with the way the event is right now, although it’s not ideal the biggest issue boils down to the fact that if you spend 3 hours a day (average game time) do each map once, getting 20 stacks for maximum rewards, you are awarded 35 tokens. for 4 days, thats 35*3*4 = 420. You can’t even get two rewards with that amount of time…. And to grind every event from start to finish and forgo sleep I don’t even think you can obtain all the items.
- Channeled vigor.
I am still trying to wrap my mind around this skill. So the acrobatic fighter, designed to dodge and avoid all damage, is suppose to stop.. and channel? This skill I feel needs a complete redesign.
You can move while using it and it restores somewhere around half of your endurance bar during usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a lot more usable than people were expecting.
Yes, but you can’t evade, you can be interrupted, you’re pretty much just running away from things hoping to get the entire channel off without taking any major damage or CC . Now I think I speak for all thieves when I say, we’re squishy, without the ability to evade we can easily be downed during the fight, it’s why I have kept using Withdraw, and have no intention of using Channeled Vigor again in it’s current state. I almost feel like adding distortion to it could make it really viable.
I still can’t help but feel like being DP SA in almost all those situations you’d have seen more overall success.
Needs more work.
Beta is beta.
Found this after I made my thread, so I am going to copy paste mine into here too for the devs: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/DD-Feedback-Beta-is-beta
My initial thoughts regarding this elite specialization, is that it feels both unfinished and clunky. Obviously, beta is beta, and it’s there for a reason.
To start, I want to talk about the specialization as a whole. DD is meant to be an in-your-face fighter, that initiates a fight, and avoids damage to stay alive, innately he’s still squishy, but you can’t kill a target you’re unable to hit… How this spec has panned out however, is that you’re not mobile enough, with not enough ‘evasion’ to justify just how squishy you are, in general, although you can avoid a lot of damage, once some one connects a single hit, you’re dead, or to be more accurate, you have to back out, this is currently impossible due to no mobility on the staff.
- Lack of condition removal (applies to both thief and DD)
Elongated fights vs conditions. Thief inherently has bad condi cleanse. Escapist’s absolutely, I feel, acknowledges this, however the aim in general is to dodge the condition application, and with the frequency and ease of applying and stacking conditions it’s impossible to dodge all applications and “Dodge” clense them all. My first experience with the DD in the starting maguuma story was against these modrem that would apply high torment, which I have no realistic way of cleansing, the result was me falling over despite being able to avoid most damage output.
- Staff feels weak.
From the moment guild mates suggested staff as a thief weapon in the up and coming expansion, I told them it would be a bad idea. I told them this largely due to the fact that S/D fits the play style they were looking for, and adding staff to the game, would either be weaker then S/D or visa versa. As the case goes, it turns out staff is out right worse then S/D. Staff itself, has no mobility. No way in, no way out of a fight… The evasive acrobatic fighter is slowly walking himself into fights, and once he takes a sizable hit, and has to disengage, he can’t and pretty much just dies.
Staff however, can be easily fixed, change Weakening Charge into a teleport, then the short ranged ‘charge’. This will allow the DD to do what he is meant to do, dive the backline, helping the mobility problem. However they still lack disengage.
In my mind there are two ways to add disengage to the staff, the first is to increase the ‘jump back’ from debilitating arc to some thing closer to 900-1200 range, I don’t much care for this personally because it would look rather odd flinging yourself back that far. The second option is to add a stealth effect to Dust Strike, if it hits a target. The latter option allows access to the staff stealth skill, a reliable disengage, the ability to use the shadow art’s line (not effectively, but at least use it), and of course, it would make sense, you’re disappearing into the dust.
Lastly, vault feels clunky. I can’t imagine myself ever landing this skill against a player of equal skill, not to mention it locks you into an animation that you can be knocked out of and to make matters worse, if you steal during the vault, you teleport AFTER you land from vault. I have no personal fix for it as of right now, at least none that I feel are adequate enough to share.
- Grandmaster traits. The big one.
I was so excited for DD, I was excited to take Bound, and crush people under my boots while avoiding their damage. It looked so cool!.. Then when I tried it, I noticed how slow, clunky, and awkward it felt, this applies for both dash and bound. The biggest problem with both of these skills, and to a lesser degree Impaling Lotus is that they are STILL our dodge roll, and taking our dodge and replacing it with a skill.. Unless those skills are insanely overpowered, it’s not worth it.
Fortunately, there’s an easy fix for this…. Revert all the dodge rolls to the basic dodge roll, but keep the added effects, IE you dodge roll normally but also do damage, or roll further (but only dodge for the same duration) or roll and daggers fly out of your butt.
Some other minor thing’s that need to be considered as well: Bound can land you a bit too far away from your target to not be able to hit him with Bound’s damage. Bound + Impaling Lotus can NOT be used while stealth without removing it, and therefore both should be disabled (or rather their secondary effects) while you’re stealthed.
- Impairing Daggers.
Love it. Truly, I do, this has been the most enjoyable part of the elite specialization, it’s just a shame you don’t have access to this skill unless you take DD.
- Channeled vigor.
I am still trying to wrap my mind around this skill. So the acrobatic fighter, designed to dodge and avoid all damage, is suppose to stop.. and channel? This skill I feel needs a complete redesign.
- Impact strike.
I actually found some success with this skill. However if they avoid a single hit from it, it becomes pretty worthless. As with vault I have no real suggestions for this skill, simply that it feels … risky? I suppose.
I think that about does it for my experiences with the elite spec. Overall it felt clunky and unfinished, and not really fun. Furthermore I feel as though the current SA DP meta thief build is far more functional, even if it also has an array of problems that still need to be addressed.
Karl, i’m counting on you to make this specialization the most fun!
My initial thoughts regarding this elite specialization, is that it feels both unfinished and clunky. Obviously, beta is beta, and it’s there for a reason.
To start, I want to talk about the specialization as a whole. DD is meant to be an in-your-face fighter, that initiates a fight, and avoids damage to stay alive, innately he’s still squishy, but you can’t kill a target you’re unable to hit… How this spec has panned out however, is that you’re not mobile enough, with not enough ‘evasion’ to justify just how squishy you are, in general, although you can avoid a lot of damage, once some one connects a single hit, you’re dead, or to be more accurate, you have to back out, this is currently impossible due to no mobility on the staff.
- Lack of condition removal (applies to both thief and DD)
Elongated fights vs conditions. Thief inherently has bad condi cleanse. Escapist’s absolutely, I feel, acknowledges this, however the aim in general is to dodge the condition application, and with the frequency and ease of applying and stacking conditions it’s impossible to dodge all applications and “Dodge” clense them all. My first experience with the DD in the starting maguuma story was against these modrem that would apply high torment, which I have no realistic way of cleansing, the result was me falling over despite being able to avoid most damage output.
- Staff feels weak.
From the moment guild mates suggested staff as a thief weapon in the up and coming expansion, I told them it would be a bad idea. I told them this largely due to the fact that S/D fits the play style they were looking for, and adding staff to the game, would either be weaker then S/D or visa versa. As the case goes, it turns out staff is out right worse then S/D. Staff itself, has no mobility. No way in, no way out of a fight… The evasive acrobatic fighter is slowly walking himself into fights, and once he takes a sizable hi, and has to disengage, he can’t and pretty much just dies.
Staff however, can be easily fixed, change Weakening Charge into a teleport, then the short ranged ‘charge’. This will allow the DD to do what he is meant to do, dive the backline, helping the mobility problem. However they still lack disengage.
In my mind there are two ways to add disengage to the staff, the first is to increase the ‘jump back’ from debilitating arc to some thing closer to 900-1200 range, I don’t much care for this personally because it would look rather odd flinging yourself back that far. The second option is to add a stealth effect to Dust Strike, if it hits a target. The latter option allows access to the staff stealth skill, a reliable disengage, the ability to use the shadow art’s line (not effectively, but at least use it), and of course, it would make sense, you’re disappearing into the dust.
Lastly, vault feels clunky. I can’t imagine myself ever landing this skill against a player of equal skill, not to mention it locks you into an animation that you can be knocked out of and to make matters worse, if you steal during the vault, you teleport AFTER you land from vault. I have no personal fix for it as of right now, at least none that I feel are adequate enough to share.
- Grandmaster traits. The big one.
I was so excited for DD, I was excited to take Bound, and crush people under my boots while avoiding their damage. It looked so cool!.. Then when I tried it, I noticed how slow, clunky, and awkward it felt, this applies for both dash and bound. The biggest problem with both of these skills, and to a lesser degree Impaling Lotus is that they are STILL our dodge roll, and taking our dodge and replacing it with a skill.. Unless those skills are insanely overpowered, it’s not worth it.
Fortunately, there’s an easy fix for this…. Revert all the dodge rolls to the basic dodge roll, but keep the added effects, IE you dodge roll normally but also do damage, or roll further (but only dodge for the same duration) or roll and daggers fly out of your butt.
Some other minor thing’s that need to be considered as well: Bound can land you a bit too far away from your target to not be able to hit him with Bound’s damage. Bound + Impaling Lotus can NOT be used while stealth without removing it, and therefore both should be disabled (or rather their secondary effects) while you’re stealthed.
- Impairing Daggers.
Love it. Truly, I do, this has been the most enjoyable part of the elite specialization, it’s just a shame you don’t have access to this skill unless you take DD.
- Channeled vigor.
I am still trying to wrap my mind around this skill. So the acrobatic fighter, designed to dodge and avoid all damage, is suppose to stop.. and channel? This skill I feel needs a complete redesign.
- Impact strike.
I actually found some success with this skill. However if they avoid a single hit from it, it becomes pretty worthless. As with vault I have no real suggestions for this skill, simply that it feels … risky? I suppose.
I think that about does it for my experiences with the elite spec. Overall it felt clunky and unfinished, and not really fun. Furthermore I feel as though the current SA DP meta thief build is far more functional, even if it also has an array of problems that still need to be addressed.
A thanks to those that read every thing.
Doing my fractal 50 today with this lag is going to be interesting . . . .
A quick ping test put my connection at 23ms rating of very good.
Yeah. It seems as though this is a problem for Anet, not an ISP.
Yeah had the same in PvP tonight after patch. Might be linked to the streaming client somehow as now there is no option to turn it off completely (why Anet?)
This is my assumption as it’s the only thing that would effect connectivity. That said I DLed every thing before even attempting to play. So I don’t get why it would effect me if im not streaming.
You know it’s a scam when they ask for you account information that they obviously have and thus sent you the email.
Since the patch I have been experience an incredible amount of lag. Checking my ping via a site shows that my internet is perfect, yet GW2 is experience insane lag … any where.
I am also pretty sure I am not DLing any thing via the streaming content addition added, since I didn’t even begin playing until every thing had been successfully downloaded.
Well the fix looks pretty good so far, and we’re on track soooooooo…
“supa soon” is all I am going to say here. If it fails last minute please don’t poison my coffee… I need it for life ._.
Don’t worry, I just wanted to make sure A: Yall were working on it. B: It is in fact a bug and you guys havn’t decided you don’t want people to play thieves any more.
I don’t suppose we can get an ETA on a fix for this? It is a game breaking bug, that breaks literally all of the applications for stealth.
If there was no key of any kind in the box well I think there has been to much time has passed to do anything about it. Just chock it up to a learning experience, check all the content in any boxed game before leaving the store in front of the clerk, that way if there is anything missing you could bring it to the attention of the clerk and exchange it right there. This is a real common problem and happens a lot, wether an employee of the store, someone comes into the store and grabs the key or it might have been missed in the manufacturing process.
Unfortunately when it’s a gift, you arn’t in the store and able to do such a thing, that plus the fact (as a gift) you don’t get a receipt with it… It’s a bit of a problem. I am hopping that the box, or the discs will be enough to either: Get a new code or retrieve the original.
Edit: I also want to point out when she got this, it was completely sealed in it’s plastic wrap… So it SEEMS like a manufacturing issue.
(edited by Christonya.3856)
Mine was on a card inside the cover, has she checked all inlay cards for that code ?
( Heroic Edition here)
I believe so, I will be sure to mention this to her just in case though..
So I have a bit of a unique situation…. A friend of mine got GW2 for Christmas 7 months ago, and I just found out about this last night. I asked them to play it with me and I was met with an odd problem. According to them they got the game as a present from a local wal-mart and the game came without a serial code (Or the code is cleverly hidden in a place she can not find). Since I bought the game digitally my code came in my email .. So I am unaware where it is meant to be but she swears it doesnt have one at all.
Between getting the game as a gift (No receipt) and being the type of person to give up when some thing doesn’t work the first time, she basically held onto the game that she could not play up till this point. Now that there’s cause to play it we are both hopping we can do just that however with the lack of a serial code she can not create an account.
Is there any thing that can be done about this ? Or perhaps the box / discs have the code hidden away? Shes been very pessimistic about this but I am hopeful a solution can be found.