Guild Wars 2

Malthurius.6870:

I’ll agree that rifle seems a bit weak at the moment. I think increasing the damage on volley and increasing the bonus adrenaline on the auto would do a lot to help it be a reasonable choice for at least open world content. It hits way too low to be usable anywhere.

As for longbow… it would be nice if it could be used for power builds… at least casual ones… maybe they could increase the power coefficient on a lot of those attacks so that it does a respectable amount of direct damage if you’re built for power. As it stands now, Longbow is a pure condi weapon…

I find Longbow to be pretty decent on Power, though I do think it needs more damage. There’s something to be said for the fact that you have guaranteed adrenal and cleansing ire with the burst (as it can’t “miss”), CC, and ranged damage as an already tanky class. I find it to be a reliable weapon while roaming, but can’t quite hold up to axe/shield. The damage just isn’t there. The utility is though.

Rifle, especially on core, feels absolutely horrible. It’s garbage. I get kills with it (having ranged options is always strong) but it feels boring, weak, slow, and projectile hate is stronk. Some people like it I’m sure, but I feel like its been gimmicky since day 1.

Knighthonor.4061:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Knighthonor.4061:

Would like a a mechanical change that gives use multiple Burst to choose from and invokes a Holy Rage system that increase damage or increase Damage reduction by how much Holy Rage you have, and can be used to trigger other effects.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Holy_Power

Multiple Bursts, can be used to trigger other effects, additional damage. 3 bars…..

Your idea is generic and unfitted to the aesthetic of GW2. There is already an adapted “paladin” archetype in Guardian, and this would be the pumpkin spice latte ugg boots version of paladin.

Simultaneous Heals/ Damage won’t be tuned properly, because it doesn’t work. It’s either too strong, or its garbage. Either way, it’s passive and weak gameplay. I played some rift, didn’t hold up for long. PvP was a joke. Then you throw in passive damage increase….

What this gives, regardless of attempts to balance, is passive, brain dead gameplay. A very spammy class. And a completely unoriginal flavor of it.

ok looking over that link you provided, that is nothing like a Rage mechanic,, its closer to Thief initiative.

You say this is generic yet all Elite Specs pretty much are combos of GW2 classes. Cant be more generic than that. Yet it works out. As I stated, I was given a simple idea for it, but just like all other Elite Specs, although similar, they still unique.
Prime example is Ranger and Dragonhunter Guardians. They are very similar in that they both have Traps and Bow usage yet still very unique from each other.

So again I dont see why a Guardian and Paladin Warrior cant also share similar concepts yet also be just as Different and Unique.

again saying Guardian is already the Paladin, is like saying Ranger is already the Dragonhunter. Its ridiculous. Guardians, lore wise arent the only Spiritual Fighters in the IP. As I said time and time again, Dervish were also considered Holy Warriors from there region and time period. Same with Ritualist and Monks.

Heals from Damage can work great. Since its a balanced feature. We already have something similar technically with Life Siphon which isnt a reach. So not hard to AoE the healing part of the damage. Also the Heal skill itself could have some effects here. As I suggested already, the Utility Skills could be some kind of Form/Tome/Kits that change the Weapon skills granting more support abilities to compensate for the lack of damage with a increase of self and group support and defense.

Also with the suggestion of a Holy Rage system as I stated originally, how could it be a Spammy design thats brain dead if you have a resource you need to manage it? you contradict your own self.

Looks like you aren’t very good at reading. It’s nothing like thief Initiative. I played both a Ret and Holy Paladin in WoW. Try again, initiative is restored over time in small increments, holy power is generated through skill usage, and consumed through other skills. It’s 3 bars, and isn’t that far off in feel from the current adrenaline mechanic with the caveat of versatility in what skills can be used. (You specifically mention “multiple burst” to choose from, and that is EXACTLY how paladin works.)

There is not “resource management”. You did not specify anything about how your holy rage mechanic is gained. Logic would say in a similar fashion to how warrior gains it now, much like adrenaline. If anyone honestly thinks adrenaline is “resource management”, they’re kidding themselves.

What you have outlined does not specify otherwise, and every elite spec preceding has utilized adrenaline mechanics to dictate burst. What you have here is a Ret Paladin without any rhyme or reason to how it obtains both its damage and healing. Its just a spam fest that stacks adrenaline to drop burst and heals simultaneously in a circle. It’s entirely passive.

Whether anything is overpowered is speculation, but what isn’t is the gameplay mechanics you’ve outlined. Intentionally or not. This would be braindead, and likely irreplaceable in a game that has mostly shirked a real trinity.

As far as “Rage Mechanics” are concerned

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rage

Adrenaline is a “rage mechanic”. So either you use a different name and outline an entirely different set of generation themes, or you take the current system and make the most braindead heal and damage spam cycling piano character this game has seen.

Knighthonor.4061:

Would like a a mechanical change that gives use multiple Burst to choose from and invokes a Holy Rage system that increase damage or increase Damage reduction by how much Holy Rage you have, and can be used to trigger other effects.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Holy_Power

Multiple Bursts, can be used to trigger other effects, additional damage. 3 bars…..

Your idea is generic and unfitted to the aesthetic of GW2. There is already an adapted “paladin” archetype in Guardian, and this would be the pumpkin spice latte ugg boots version of paladin.

Simultaneous Heals/ Damage won’t be tuned properly, because it doesn’t work. It’s either too strong, or its garbage. Either way, it’s passive and weak gameplay. I played some rift, didn’t hold up for long. PvP was a joke. Then you throw in passive damage increase….

What this gives, regardless of attempts to balance, is passive, brain dead gameplay. A very spammy class. And a completely unoriginal flavor of it.

discipline giving base movement speed, fast hands which is mandatory for pvp…
These two things alone make it a must take in every good pvp build.

Literally just stealing from WoW, and trying to apply it to the wrong class.

0/10

DinesenDK.5067:

What’s the build for spvp when running this?

I’ll post more specific information when I’m home, but whereas I’m taking might makes right and utilizing some sustain here, I am of the opinion that you’d want to run this as full glass and dispatch people as quickly as possible in spvp. Berserker/Demolisher Amulet, def disc strength, Berserkers Power as GM in strength, Signet of might utility to get through block spam, maybe bulls charge, and basically just manhandle people very quickly and use gs mobility to rotate around the map. I would probably run Last stand where I normally bring cleansing Ire. Essentially your solution to everything is pop stances and bully things.

One of the reasons for this is the nerf in invulns. You only have access to 2 second Endure pain (twice) in PvP, so instead of trying to regain health over the course of that small invuln, it’s in your best interest to nuke people with your already bigger healthpool.

Take note, it might be very hard to use Warrior in general past platinum, maybe even gold. The tells are very large and you’ll have to be careful of baiting out dodges and landing burst often. If you are at lower levels of play, Warrior can certainly carry with good mechanics.

Tiawal.2351:

atheria.2837:

Most duelers are toxic – they need to be removed from WvW.

In any case, I wish they’d be addressed and moved off WvW.

This is why we can’t have nice things. Judge people one by one, piece by piece. Toxicity and broad generalization are the problem, not dueling…

GvG and duels are the purest form of PvP, they should be embraced, instead of being vilified; if you want skilled players on your side…

I guess that is the problem though, WvW is seen as an exclusive place for unskilled zerging and PvD by some – and sadly they are right, most of the time.

Atheria, please revisit the way you approach everything in your life. (What I’m doing here is basing my entire perspective of you around the fact that you said something incredibly wrong, see how that can be toxic?) I have never once been in a duel with someone being actively toxic. The whole point of a duel is to have a fair fight. It tends to bring good natured fun.

Source on spellbreaker Nerfs?

If I look at this from a WvW/PvP perspective….

Berserker is only somewhat viable with Condi for roaming (and boring at that), weak for zerging. Warrior in its entirety is subpar for PvP, especially Power Berserker.

Core Warrior is great for Roaming (Power is at least), and I don’t zerg really but it’s probably something that’s easily replaced with better options. Pretty bad for PvP still.

Spellbreaker seemed viable for Roaming and Zerging, if not a bit weak from a damage perspective. PvP is a little too early to call, but I see it being mediocre. I really only see power being used, but I didn’t get enough time to try Condi. I really don’t see it being used that way with great success.

If they levy a nerf on spellbreaker, It will probably be a very, very low point for this class in any PvP oriented mode. It’s already bad.

Might Makes Right made GS even more entrenched. And It also made axe that much harder to give up because of the might stacking on eviscerate.

And shield? I can hit 5 at the right time and Might Makes Right basically resets a fight.

I didn’t want to give up berserkers power but the synergy is absolutely insane between these 3 weapons and that Trait.

You got it. Occasionally I’ll whip out longbow, but it’s Anet’s fault for making everything else massively inferior. Sword Burst? disgusting.

Before the Berserker hit, I really liked Mace. Nowadays it just becomes purely defensive against people that know to stay away on Core.

Shock value and degenerative humor are thoroughly entrenched in gaming culture. I think its hilariously ineffective to simply ask people to stop, but a censor could be used.

People can certainly set examples, but anonymity will always dictate some horrible things being said.

Holy cow the suggestions on these forums are hilarious today.

A million times no. This should be fundamental knowledge.

This is the most ridiculous non-issue I’ve seen posted about in a while.

I duel all the time. Sometimes griefers and noobs see that it’s a duel and they get destroyed trying to mess with either side, usually because people that do that kind of thing can’t win a fair fight. Typically the person not being pressured in the duel backs off and observes the gank get denied or maybe its successful, but usually its just bads that do that.

If anything, I get some hilarious content from scrubs trying to gank 2 or 3v1 only to find out they couldn’t even get the job done. 9/10 times, people are told its a duel and they go along their way. And if someone wants to gank, they can do that.

Some people need to grow a spine and deal with the very minor sandbox elements of WvW interactions.

Very often, a little policing squad gets formed, and anyone trying to interrupt gets destroyed. It’s nice to see people having fun and playing for competition, and to mix it in with griefers and dogmatic “red is always dead” types (who are usually awful) anyways provides laughs to anyone that can understand this is a game.

Hello Everyone,

Just some Roaming and 1v1 on Core with a couple zerk clips in there. Views/Critique/Blunt Insults always welcome. Thanks for your time!

https://youtu.be/oo0Tcq0o5Jg

ugrakarma.9416:

Warrior will continue a joke with spellbraker.

Raids: Ele, Mesmers, Rangers/Druids, everything will mock ur DPS.
High Level fractals: same as above. all that “counter” stuff dont bring anything new, expect being carried cuz the survivability is a jocke too.
WvW: everything shine except warrior. even full zerker scrappers mock at it.

But the last option – “I just want to parade with cool look at Open World Pve”: Not even that, the general consensus is that the looks of the new elite seems like a last-minute thing. Dagger #1 is the same as Thiev with yellow glows. Why get the warrior to look “big bad guy” when you have DeadEye or Reaper?

Core Warrior is Amazing Right now in WvW for roaming.
And SpellBreaker was Really good in Zerging , think theres a video of some dude in BORP zerg busting with it.

Choppy.4183:

Ramoth.9064:

Successful mobas definitely balance from a ceiling perspective. Which isn’t gw2 though.

How would balancing at the ceiling, specifically as it relates to top tier pvp, lead to balance in pve (which appears to be where most of the complaints are coming from)?

Moreover, how would that approach play out in Wvw from roaming to zerg play?

Finally, how would you do it for even just pvp? You’d have to balance according to roles. Is hat even what people want? I doubt it.

Looking through the posts, I think most of the complaints point to PvP/WvW. Definitely a good mix at least.

Let’s be more specific about what balancing from the ceiling means. Mechanics.

If we set up a class so that it has access to a large amount of invuln, evades, blocks, and we make those so that a mid or lower player can very easily spam them without real consequence… (sounds like HoT power creep right? Notice the competitive fall off tying into this)?

This is the exact point in which people feel that their game play lacks gravity, consequence, and fun. It lasks risk, and it lacks reward.

When strong things, especially invulnerabilities, are balanced around the “middle”, that implies that these skills have strong (or too strong) consequences in the hands of 50% of the player base, with the better players suffering from your aforementioned low skill ceilings…

The situations arise where people simply going through rotations can sustain themselves well enough that intelligible counter play is incredibly weakened. Such a large range of skilled players are above that “middle” point and the game in general feels like a spam fest.

When you implement strong damage, strong sustain, and you make those obtainable at a much higher level of skill, lets say optimum usage requiring mechanical skill in the top 10%, everyone below those levels starts to feel the weight of errors, and the success in thought out play.

Ask yourself, where you honestly think this game is balanced about right now, and then realize how dead its competitive scene is.

I think, in a small way, Anet realizes this and wants to fix it. But be it lack of resources or execution, they levied changes like berserkers primal burst that simply made its usage significantly worse. It didn’t ask any real questions, it just said “this is strong and easy, kill it.”

ArenaNet needs to keep finding that better sweet spot where they don’t alienate it’s base, but they give people a reason to improve and keep playing.

Berserker as it stands is drastically inferior for anyone running Power in a PvP game mode of any sort. This change occurred with no consideration to Warrior and all its included specs already struggling among skilled players. Berserker cannot be taken with spellbreaker and thus it would seem that while maybe tradeoff was the intention, there’s not even a shred of competition for berserker against core or SB.

Spellbreaker feels fairly balanced for small scale pvp and 1v1. Damage application is more spread out, and often easier to apply due to unblockable, burst combos, etc. This translates to certain players having a hard time reconciling the playstyle difference, and those calling it bad just chucking skills into invulns.

That being said, it’s damage could use a small boost.

It was particularly fun to roam against all the condi aids in WvW. Nothing better than full countering 25 something bleed stacks onto people in a 3v1. Great ways of dealing with Condi, which in and of itself is incredibly strong. (Run Revenge Counter while you can, I can see the tears causing a nerf shortly after release from the braindead masses who will attack your orange sphere). To be fair though, this game is hilariously easy to proc counters off with the limitless aoe spam and pulsing nonsense even if people can read your counter timing.

Specific to taking this spec in conquest…. I think it’s hard to gauge. It will certainly be viable for solo queue and work up into higher levels in good hands. I feel like it fits a little too comfortably right now (seems balanced almost), and once people start figuring out the capacities of other professions, it will fall behind.

I’d really think that something like a 2 bar burst equivalent might be fair. And if they really don’t want berserker to have that sustain, maybe they adjust the damage for all primal bursts to at least make it chunk real hard.

I say this because I don’t think they have the capacity/resources to overhaul this elite spec. At very least, they could provide a trade off. I would consider it fair if going berserk felt like it accomplished something unique, and thematic.

- Healing for a percentage of Damage inflicted while in Berserk mode.
- Big Ole Flat Percentage of Damage in Berserk mode
- Longer quickness and superspeed in Berserk mode?
- Unblockables?
- Anything that at least makes a person pause before taking strength instead.

To me it seems they wanted to get away from crazy abundant sustain, but Zerker needs to feel like its got real gusto behind it. It’s so devoid of “Umph” and statistically inferior.

Anybody here have the misfortune of playing Ace Online? That was a 2 faction game where my “brigade”(guild) got transferred 4-5 different times by the GM’s to try and maintain balance/stacking.

I will give it credit as having potentially the most fun faction based PvP, though in a very different dog fighting style atmosphere.

Guild Wars 2 has done a decent job here, and I think it plays better than other options on the market for fantasy.

It doesn’t even start to hold a candle to Eve, that game is an entirely different monster and a sandbox, whereas this is a much more casual endeavor. It could learn some things from more hardcore titles though.

Giving credit where credit is due, when things go right in WvW, it’s really an awesome game and does a lot of things well.

You guys try roaming on it? I was using some marauder and zerk stuff and thought it seemed pretty stronk. d/d was meh, mace shield and GS was good. Want to use hammer but the mobility then becomes atrocious.

Malerian.8435:

Kovu.7560:

The place is cancer. Transfer to Maguuma.

~ Kovu

When was FA not Cancer? Maybe like 3 years ago? And from what I heard last night (4 people that are on FA) it has got even worse int he past couple of months…

Curious as to examples of why? We talking Team Chat? Prevalent community members?

Choppy.4183:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

…clear evidence that power (and even condi) berserker was already completely useless at high level play. I mean it hasn’t been used successfully in any tournaments in months

This isn’t a good measure of the class as a whole, and it’s not unusual for buffs and nerfs to be needed simultaneously.

Berserker (like core warrior, but with “moar powah”) had a relatively low skill floor, allowing people with limited skill to be effective with, and even carried by, the class for the majority of play. This is pure speculation, unlike team rosters. I can agree that, along with many other braindead specs from HoT creep, the ins and outs of many classes with passive procs can carry at lower levels. I won’t throw warrior under the bus individually here, how is that logically explaining this nerf where so many other passive elements exist across other classes? It just doesn’t.

It also has a relatively low skill ceiling, which means the class has less to offer at higher skill play, like driving a street level car in a race against people in higher performance machines.

Most people don’t play at the top tier level of play, so the absence of warrior from that level isn’t a good indication that a nerf isn’t warranted.

Berserker hard carried a lot of sloppy play before these last two rounds of nerfs. There’s still room for fine tuning, to make it more fluid and have a unique role, but nothing especially significant.

Note: The above is mostly in regard to wvw and pvp. In truth, I don’t understand why there’s so much pressure to be “optimal” in pve from a damage/support perspective. So, given that I don’t get that, the above may or may not apply to pve.

The skill floor being low is nothing unique to warrior. DragonHunter? Druid? Any bunker? Condi Chrono?

I can braindead hard carry on Condi Chrono infinitely easier than on warrior. I can hop on a DH and win matchups at low levels without any real comprehension. Just burst damage and blocks and passive procs.

The difference between warrior getting nerfed is it didn’t have a chance to begin with.

Gonna cherry pick your reasoning as you did with mine:

“Most people don’t play at the top tier level of play, so the absence of warrior from that level isn’t a good indication that a nerf isn’t warranted. "

You balance from the ceiling, not the floor. Any successful competitive environment does this. Why get good at a class when it’s balanced for people that are bad at it? Why bother playing competitive modes at all? Where is the sense of progression and reward for being better at something than you were before? Oh wait, it’s almost as if the across the board power creep of HoT creating easier gameplay robbed the game of viability in a competitive sense!

Your argument falls through in that ArenaNet wasn’t intelligent enough to bring in higher skill ceiling mechanics to allow for the very, very hard 66% on-trait nerf found in Primal Burst.

They did nothing to create better gameplay for berserker, they did nothing to properly communicate because its honestly embarrassing to admit a primary function of a spec needed such a massive nerf and has been in place for so long, and it’s a month before an expansion…..

It’s a bad joke. If this balance team thought things through, they wouldn’t have levied it without compensating mechanics to promote more skilled gameplay. As it stands, the berserker spec is blatantly outshadowed by the strength tree for power. Going into berserk mode is a bad decision for the player, and fails in its original intent and feel.

The punchline is nothing you take on warrior is truly viable from a competitive sense. Not Core, not Zerk, probably not even Spellbreaker, but we’ll see.

Dear cptaylor,

Learn to play.

Sincerely,
The least used class in high level competitive, Warrior.

Gonna bump this for a Dev answer please. Would like to know why it doesn’t reduce “recharge” on these stances

Hey I Just met you,

and this is Crazy,

Berserk Elite specs useless,

2 bar primal burst maybeee

For Open World Content, theres viability in a ton of different things.

Spellbreaker certainly won’t be a limiting factor in that regard.

Spellbreaker will likely be optimal for power based PvP builds and disrupting the cancerous condi Meta of WvW.

It all depends on what you plan to do, but I don’t see spellbreaker being used that much in PvE.

While it can be entertaining to run stuff like this, it also makes me a little sad that Tactics, arms, and now Berserker are so so terrible compared to taking Defense and Discipline for Power in PvP content.

Defense and Discipline are not OP, but Arms and Tactics are just so weak for PvP builds comparatively. It’s gimmicky to not run them.

Ugh. Condi is looking to be optimal with this spec.

WUROCKET.5182:

No condi clears at all? That must be rough to play

Berserker Stance and Healing Signet, not sure if he’s running brawlers recovery or not…

But yeah, the goal is to dunk the person in less than 20 seconds usually or stuff can start to get dicey. (Against Condi)

Seems absolutely terrible lately, never have really had too many issues before but in recent weeks theres some horrendous skill delay anytime a decent sized zerg is present.

Hello ArenaNet, would someone responsible for the Primal Burst change like to provide the thought process behind it?

what is am balance plz

Thank you Cerby

I ran condi warrior for a day. One day. 1v2… 1v3…. much easier. I think its a little more in line but kitten its still pretty gross and faceroll.

That being said, If you play condi thief, you were probably bullied a lot as a kid.

I was worried when my girlfriend decided to roll an Engi, but she enjoys it alot. With P/P Condi and flamethrower for the incendiary she mops stuff up without a lot of button spam. A lot of the time for open world I see her just flamethrower anything and everything. She really likes the flamethrower.

Juba.8406:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

try and politely examine the INTENT of the current skill

Explain to me the INTENT of this Trait , politely please..

I’ll politely excuse your strawman, but I will mention that noones had any problems with this stick and move trait UNTIL the bads who want 10% passive damage buffs at all times because of the sustain skill they have taken working against that.(MmR)

And anyone making the excuse of “oh BP gets it too”, you are tunnel visioning and there’s a reason you’re bringing up strawman arguments instead of balancing video games.

Seriously, you can take issue with individual implementations but there was no “Nerf” on this one. Might Makes Right was a newly added skill that ArenaNet very obviously wanted to tune in the endurance department. You get that much access to dodge? You don’t get 10% when you’re not using em.

I’ll wait for you guys to keep processing that and come back with an actual solution to ArenaNet’s non optimal balancing mechanisms. But that’s what it is. A balancing mechanism.

Before anyone else does the same BS, here’s some information….

Strawman:
An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.

I.E. : Hey bro, how about this skill where everyone can disagree with the changes?! Because Anet modified this skill incorrectly, a new implementation on an existing spec must be incorrect too right!

#Basic

100blades while moving, make it happen.

If you carefully read what I say (maybe english is a second language) there’s a lot of context you’re missing in my argument nicknamenick.

To Mikeskies, while I agree with your frustration (please refer to my multiple postings hating on ArenaNet for the Primal Burst nerf) that is technically a strawman argument you are making and I’m not gonna take the bait on that.

nicknamenick, all I have left to say to you is try and politely examine the INTENT of the current skill, and if there are not better ways to implement a change than something passive such as on dodge application. Maybe take a look at more than the selfish viewpoint of “well this trait would work better if I baseline this to dodges for the spec”.

I’m gonna go with the thinking that they put Might Makes Right in there knowing that the endurance regen has some balancing mechanics that already existed in this tree.

Whether you dislike the fact that ArenaNet wanted to keep higher damage off of someone with a full endurance bar is not relevant to balance. Might Makes Right is a new skill and it’s fairly obvious they took into consideration the non selectable traits of a tree this time.

I think anyone will agree that this class doesn’t suffer from a lack of ways to establish sustain, it lacks in its application of damage. It has huge tells, it is easily readable and avoidable. A warrior is a heavy armor wearing class meant to take a beating and dish it out. Changes should happen in different ways than dodge roll application.

Carefully read what Cerby said:

“[b]The present system is intended so you ‘generally’ DON”t have 2 full dodges to spam/use with the +10% active[/b]. Spamming 2 dodges together with the uptime is 20k on glass build. It exists as it does to nerf itself without punishing people who don’t go endurance regen builds.
What you propose is a system to maintain 10% damage on builds with +100% endurance and up to 3 dodges in a row with energy and …..countless endurance applications on hit/might/whatever! That’s just one-sided."

I don’t know if you’re all a bunch of PvE heroes or what, but the base mechanics here are being power creeped by your recommendations.

If you adjusted this buff to last the amount of time it takes to normally restore 50 endurance, you are right in saying that both options in the GM trait would have roughly the same access to this buff…

The catch is that this skill is specific to endurance not being full, and in PvP combat, you need to dig a little deeper to find out why they did that.

With Might Makes right, I can use dodge rolls with abandon, regaining Endurance very, very fast, especially so If I focus on might gathering. I can use it to dodge multiple attacks, and simultaneously, I am getting Passive Sustain, and Passive Damage from the might application by taking the GM trait Might Makes Right.

The Synergy is so strong that by both paths having access to the 10% through the USAGE of dodge rolling, the build that effectively avoids all damage it wants to via endurance spamming is far stronger than the on hit reliance of Berserkers Power.

Now when I PvP, good players see Arcing Slice and Decapitate coming. They can effectively negate all damage dealt by abusing I-Frames. This change you propose doesn’t just feed into higher survival through evade spam, it gives it much more even ground with passive damage boosts. Berserkers Power Relies on Application, dodge rolls do not.

A thief spams all glass because it can survive on high endurance ALONE. The synergy of always evading paired with flat damage increases becomes especially disgusting with this new trait, and although ArenaNet has poor balancing mechanics, "Stick and Move was designed with the intent to only be doing additional damage when the player has less access to dodge.

TL:DR Please understand the situational intent of this skill. Just because your filling your stupid bars up too fast with might/health/endurance doesn’t mean you power creep a spec.

I see that you missed my point entirely, let me try to say this very, very clearly.

Dodges are incredibly strong. ALWAYS having dodges to spam with 10% damage is much stronger than lets say taking Berserkers Power with 10% damage (you will have far less access to dodge by taking this).

With Might Makes Right in the equation, you would basically make it indispensable for anyone with PvP in mind. You also enforce more passive game play where dodge spam becomes more accessible.

Hesacon.8735:

Apolo.5942:

Manijin.3428:

Basically, what’s happening is that elite specs are being turned into OPTIONS for characters, rather than straight upgrades. Even Spellbreaker is limited to TWO adrenaline bars, which means it STILL won’t have the sustain of three bar bursts. It’s a good direction for the game to take, even if it has immediate consequences that are difficult to predict.

This would great reasoning, if it only applied to any other class besides warrior. No class got hit like warrior.

Necro says hi.

Necro was at least being used in high level PvP when it got slapped.

While I understand that there are skills that work against eachother a little bit in this tree, as has been mentioned, you will reduce build diversity.

At the same time you make this 10% increase more accessible, you also make it overwhelmingly more efficient to take Endurance spam in order to make the most out of optimal damage output.

Your dodge rolls would do damage, provide invincibility frames, provide a flat 10% damage to anyone that keeps on dodge rolling…..

You effectively strip build options. Dodging is already so strong in PvP/WvW for example. It gives you Mitigation to an unlimited amount of damage for a small period of time. Why would anyone take anything but Might Makes right and endurance spam when they could essentially be a heavy armored thief with sustain, endure pains, and gain damage buffs WHILE gaining sustain in the form of more dodges?

I don’t think anyone endorsing this is considering how there has to be trade offs to having insane access to dodging. Like small health pools on thieves.

Just wanted to celebrate 10,000+ views, giving a huge shout out at the homies who destroyed this elite spec for Power, probably because elite spec Tradeoff’s don’t sell expansions.

A special mention to the guy that had to admit that they were so wildly bad at game balance that a fundamental class skill needed a 66% Nerf to its trait-ed effects in light of a new power based elite spec. Bravo.

Also wanted to remind you of all your failures in taking a game that has viable potential for Esports and fun competitive play; fast, active and streamlined PvP in an MMO setting not reliant on the trinity of old…..

I want to remind you that you had all these tools and you failed. ESL dropped this crap, whats left of the “pro” scene seems to mock your decision making at every single turn…

And you thought that the least used class in high level play needed to have its small bit of viability reduced further. You are by far the most disappointing balance team I’ve seen in any title.

I suppose there’s nowhere but up to go!

Squish E.3280:

Cerby.1069:

Vanilla axe/shield gs dodge spamming build. With axe out dps’ing greatsword and giving might on f1, its even more viable. Feels rly weird going back to vanilla from berserker after so long though, the huge adrenaline bar seems really daunting to fill…and it kinda is regardless of how many adrenaline strike increases you stack.

Discipline, Strength, defense.

I see alot of vanilla running hammer in wvsw now. Just saying. Lots of ‘natural tank’ available now, to makeup for the adrenal health nerf. Still don’t have to ditch ur zerker gear. Going marauder definitely is an asset though, especially if ur okay with trading damage for sustain/utility.

Do you ever have trouble landing axe f1, I can’t seem to figure out how to get it I hear it’s because I’m charr and easy to predict? I really like axe but that’s what worries me is I won’t get the consistent might stacks and heals. any tips for landing the burst?

People mentioned baiting dodges, proccing aegis, etc.

I like to run Signet of Might, especially against Guardians. When you bait dodges, and you bait invulns, the unblockable on this skill is the biggest “kitten you” ever. It’s one of my favorites when roaming. Bandits defense thief? Braindead Dragon Hunter blocking rotations? Noone is safe from an unblockable 12k Eviscerate.

Hello ArenaNet.

Input?

Hello ArenaNet.

Input?

Wondering the same thing. No stances received cooldowns. The duration do show up as longer (like 5 seconds of Endure Pain) but the cooldowns are all at their normal position.

I would hope if a person sent a quick PM to a commander about wanting to join up and explained their situation, that said commander wouldn’t be such a disgusting neck beard that they would exclude that person for their self-righteous “elaborate blob tacticz”.

My request is for anyone tagging up to be inclusive and grow your community. It needs the help.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. I’d also say nearly 8000+ views later with hundreds of responses, that less input has caused change. (Please refer to the SPvP Icons which will be reverted after a couple threads popped up).

A true warrior masters all weapons, including the mighty keyboard. #MLGesus give me strength

Keep bending over and taking it.

Tinnel.4369:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Do I need to dig up the team rosters for any high level tournament in the last long while?
I actually would like to see this, both as evidence of your next statement and to perturb your condescending tone and see if you’ll follow through.

You will notice that Warrior is completely missing.

People that understand #intricacies much more than most in this thread refuse to play this class, and one of the elite specs that was actually giving power some viability in lower level play just got nothing but a 66% nerf to its kittening class specific mechanic in multiple facets.
No argument that reasons to play warrior have lacked, doesn’t mean some people can and do play it, functionally. These reasons are, however, extend well beyond primal burst. The change didn’t occur in a vacuum around primal burst, it’s relative to everything else.

Now if we try really hard we can make the distinction that Strength got some positive changes, while Berserker ONLY got negative changes from where it was prior (in a not competitive state).
Agreed, but this doesn’t constitute gutted, destroyed, forcing me to buy the expansion, etc. There remain many options to play power and even Berserker functionally. We can disagree all day, proof is in the pudding as they say and anecdotal evidence has no legs from either side. I just see the results I see and disagree.

Bear with me dude, but would that not make BERSERKER as an elite spec even LESS viable? Can you arrive at this, that only nerfs were levied at an already underperforming spec in PvP?
Again, it didn’t happen in a vacuum. It’s relative, the tests of which certainly haven’t been fleshed out over night or even in a few days, we’re not even in a PvP season currently.

There is no argument to be had as this nerf was executed without any concessions to the elite spec that got hit, an elite spec that was already not good against anyone who can read a tell and the entire competitive scene.
Broadly invalidating arguments does not, by virtue, invalidate arguments. Mere speculation that there was zero concession. I refer again to the vacuum comment. If you were already disgusted with the class and are now further disgusted what is it you’re after?

Warrior’s not perfect, no class is, either play the class or don’t, either play the game or don’t. Rage, threats, accusations, and speculation aren’t likely to get any results.

Rank 55 Dragons – Thief, Ele, Engi, Mesmer, Necro
Show Dominance – Ranger, Mesmer, Rev, Ele, Necro
Struikenduiken – Engi, Ele, Mesmer, Necro, Thief

Top 3 teams class presence:
Mesmer – 3/3
Elementalist – 3/3
Necromancer – 3/3
Engineer – 2/3
Thief – 2/3
Revenant – 1/3
Ranger – 1/3
Warrior – 0/3
Guardian – 0/3

This is a small sample, you’re not worth digging up more.

I see that you are living in a world with power warrior build diversity, a lovely world where ArenaNet had the foresight not to power creep an insane amount with HoT and mandate trait lines.

Here is the reality of the “Vacuum” you’re denying exists:

SPECS 1 AND 2: Defense, Discipline. Too strong, too integral, too useful for PvP to give up with or without the current changes. If anything they were only made stronger and more flexible within. (E.G. Axe Mastery).

SPEC 3: Berserker/Spellbreaker/Strength. Berserker and Spellbreaker being physically locked, and Strength locked because Anet has not given another genuine approach to getting rid of the aforementioned. Don’t argue with me though, argue with the years of established optimization. (For Clarity, the Def/Disc might be movable for spellbreaker, but they are not for strength and berserker).

In your lovely carebear world of false build diversity, I’m glad you can agree with having kitten forced down your throat to find “functional” builds. Some of us would like to hold people accountable so things improve.

Tinnel.4369:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Tinnel.4369:

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
At this juncture it is clear that strength is a much better option, both for damage and sustain
You want burst – primal burst.
Larger Tells, Less Damage, and as you mentioned, not worth for sustaining. Strength Hits much Harder with BP, or it hits roughly the same and makes use of MightMakesRight

You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
This is a strawman, it has nothing to do with Berserkers Primal Burst being nerfed,
any mixture of build can use these sources of EP and B. Sance

SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
Another blantant strawman, These are useable by core and zerk and don’t tie into the addressed problems with Primal Burst

You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
If you run strength, which will always logically replace Berserker. Or you are running a gimmick build and obviously won’t have the current necessities to survive competent players in this meta and power creep

You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
Another Strawman, and the traited version of Bulls Charge, certainly isn’t in the Berserkers Tree is it? Strength, again, dwarfing the choices for power builds

You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
As if you couldn’t refer any more invalid points, you bring up a weapon that is usable by both specs, that has 0 weight on the addressed issue of primal burst

Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.
“Adjusting” is playing the build that is not absolutely gutted by poor balancing decision. The arrival is that a player should always take strength if not spell breaker, and the reliance on def and discipline is too pronounced and has been an issue for a long while. Noone will use berserker as power with as much success as running strength for a multitude of reasons. As is agreed upon by so many others, core is pretty good right now, and there is no point in taking berserker for power builds

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.
Strength is the better option to take over berserker, and not the other two trees because that would create a gimmicky build, one that will be laughed at and not used by anyone with half a brain.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.
At the same time it costs you massive amounts of sustain, it will do far less damage,
be more easy to dodge on your typical melee weapon lay out, and make no sense to take because stacking 21% damage with BP makes infinitely more sense from the strength line while also supplementing sustain and condi removal.

Without contest, this is the most unintelligible defensive position I have seen written for this nerf.

It’s not at all clear that Strength is a much better option for damage and sustain. Berserk still maintains access to Savage Instinct, Blood Reaction, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar, and Eternal Champion. Tier 1, 2, and 3 bursts ~hit the same and ~clear the same.

The rest of what you’ve surmised here is that warrior is indeed not destroyed, you just have to unerstand that if you take Berserker you have to choose between burst and sustain situationally.

If I take Strength, My burst skills do far more damage. They do not hit the same. Berserkers Power…. just not even close. That is not something you can argue.

While you can make an argument for the condi clear on savage instict, I urge you to take that over smash brawler, because that’s a kittening joke. Now we’re gimping one of the saving graces of these enormous cast time, giant flaming telegraphed attacks; the rate at which you pump them out. Relative to other class burst, oh boy is this trait necessary against someone that’s already taking a kitten on all of your stun attempts which are highly telegraphed.

Not only is it a horrible play feel without smash brawler, but it was necessary to even start to pressure the power creep of so many classes in this game, especially in regards to blocks and evade spam.

As I have confirmed with Obindo, you’d be mostly kittened to take anything besides eternal champ against an experienced opponent. The GM traits here are pretty good, but god kitten why would I take 10% and a small taunt over 21% kittening damage on strength? Or even the crazy ass might stacking heal/endurance synergy on Strength?

Oh wait, noone who is “adapting” is touching this elite with a 10 foot pole unless they want to kitten themselves for bragging rights. It’s a whole lot of core warrior and nothing else.