The daily / monthly achievement is there for you to take more part into the game contents. Anet is already made it so forgiving that you can obtain a lot of exp by finishing the short term achievement on each particular task. You are not required to finish all the requirements to gain the full reward of the daily, which imo is way better than most MMO where you missed just 1 kill and you get none.
i was a greatsword warrior and never intended to use shield until my first run in dungeon. The first engage i knew i need something else to survive.
Then i brought a sword and shield on the next try. I was satisfied by the stun and block, it saved me and my team from wipe a lot of time. Not to mention that i have 0 point in defense trait, i use shout heal or regen banner instead. For warrior shield skill i don’t mind some buff but even it stays, it is totally useful in the right hand.
It would be nice to have assigned roles in this game, I agree.
At this point for me the game feels like a random zerg fest a lot of the time. Dungeons are so clunky and boring that it’s getting to me.
It is the reason I suggested in other post about the new trinity idea for GW2
Not the traditional trinity one that forced into one designated role. But instead, it encourage players to use a way of communication to mix and match their build more and assigning role before or during the heat of the the combat. But somehow some trinity lover kidnapped my threads and suddenly all the trinity hater thought i am trying to fix the game by introducing the another kind of trinity to fix the roles again.
What i am suggesting is what the game already is made into, which is just a way of communication method.
You do less dps if you spec in healing, and you can do good healing with full healing spec. But it is just like what the Mages complaint about they are not doing the nuke damage in 1 skill but rather have to use multiple skills and even attune dance to get the job done. Same if you want healing, you need to do it with a lot more effort. The increase difficulty on healing makes everyone got to have a trick or 2 in their sleeve when their support is not able to save them. Otherwise it will turns into everyone just stack dps build and use their lazy mode, stand still and smash skill as fast as possible… totally ignore the red circle around them.
Players got to dodge because nobody is able to outheal his hp without his own intention to minimize their damage taken. Thats the story behind why melee class got more damage than ranged class, because they need to dodge more or use more defensive skill.
What people don’t seem to understand is that I’m not talking about wanting trinity healing. I’m talking about wanting the same gameplay. This could’ve been achieved with some sort of support/semi-heal profession like the guardian (without having to make it into a stronger, or even as strong a, healer overall than the guardian), if it had been done differently (see my above posts), or maybe by some whole new idea that provides the same challenges and opportunities.
The reason I made the post was to see if I was alone in missing the gameplay, not the super strong healing. As I’ve said before, I’m happy that they’ve moved beyond the trinity. Of course, there’s always a small, utterly suppressed, hope that if many people agree with me, ANet may consider bringing something to satisfy us into the game in at a later stage. That hope, however, can, and probably should, be ignored.
Try water spec elementalist, if you spec into healing, you can still able to make a good healer. Communicate with your party members so that they know you will focus on their health rather than damaging foe and i am sure you can make yourself shine again. Don’t forget protect your allies is also equal / better than healing, the more you understand this, the more you can be a good healer.
Totally agree the above.
Healing is a way to keep your allies alive, but preventing a 3k harmful damage deal to your allies equal to a 3K heal and it is better because it is also prevent allies from dying if they don’t have 3k health. But doing so require a higher skill than simply smash the healing skill after the damage done. It requires a better reading to the battle condition. imho this is another GW’s focused idea.
What i will suggest is take out the using charge for the caster, then you can use your swap weapon icon to stow your conjure weapon for your original skills. It will still expire but you can swap between conjure weapon and attunement skills before weapon expire.
What exactly is evil about the trinity? I missed that part of the discussion.
I mean, I know that “Patchwerk” style fights bore some people. But GW2 doesn’t have those.
And I know that in some games, tanks and healers carry too much weight because not everyone wants to perform those roles, and they have shorter wait times to join dungeons in a certain game. But since there’s no LFD queue in this and you can clear dungeons with any combination of five competent players, that’s not relevant here either.
Like my latest reply said, when there is a proper healer class, most people will drop healing or support skill for extreme dps. Don’t you find many posts complaining the lack of survivability in many classes? Because most people playing the game and wish for max damage only, all the gear building is about full berserker gear, right? Because many players are relying their own survival onto some healers. If there is a healer class, every dungeon run will ask for a healer. When there is a proper healer, the dungeon difficulty will have to fine tuned and foes give bigger damage, and therefore a tank class will be needed, finally all party will become X+X+X+X+healer, it will lower the flexibility of party mixing. Thats the logic behind GW2 to remove healer and tank so any random player can make party.
One more thing, Anet give us trait slot, why don’t we are fixed to one major trait skill but rather we can tweak the major skill on the unlocked slot? It is to give us flexibility when playing with random players, we can mix and match for a better party performance. All of the current GW2 mechanics is for the most flexibility class combination in making party. Therefore in my other thread “New GW trinity idea” is suggesting this kind of role building, remain most flexibility to mix and match with any random players.
GW2 is a game that suggesting active dodge and minimize damage taken, nobody responsible for your own survivability. But you can always choose to support your allies or not. Within this concept, healing will be the biggest obstacle, because when there is a way to out heal the damage taken, the dps will no longer need to care for their own life, they will blame the heal for not healing them in time rather than realize they are standing in a wrong position. And if there is a main healer class, every party will ask for a healer and every non healer class will drop their own support skill and go for full dps. This will eventually going back to the holy trinity system.
The separation of roles in GW2 are “being targeted and stay alive” “not being targeted and do damage”, “not being targeted and do support”, and every class is able to and eventually run into any of these roles. How you make your build to survive and become useful in these role is up to you.
This is the best skill in boss fight. My first dungeon boss fight, both me and my buddy (yes we are just 2 player team and entered CM, silly us) forgot to equip ranged weapon in 2nd set, we fought the golem boss…. blade trail and whirlwind attack is the skill that kept us alive and defeat the boss. I love to use whirlwind attack to hit and go through boss into his back, that way if he targets me, he will turn around and my allies will be more safe. If he is not targeting me, i can use RUSH to quickly get close, and 100B.
OP:
I dunno what you are suggesting???
Are you saying you want ‘icons’ for what is happening in combat?
i.e…if you are the ‘drawer’ (silly name for the current target of the mob) you want some sort of drawer icon to pop over their head so everyone knows that now <soandso> is now it, while one person gets a handy wrench above his head for being the aid man, and the rest get knives pointing to someone’s back as flankers?
RIght now, the game is pretty much set up, like this. What are you suggesting? If someone is getting hit, they probably run around with their head cut off until they get downed, the others will be doing as much damage in whatever capacity they can, and if anyone goes down, whoever is rezzing them kinda full-fills the ‘aid-man’ capacity. We’ll call it combat medic for now…
I’m just not sure what this suggestion is trying to…suggest
Did i say the game need to change? NO, and never, i like GW2 combat system.
This is a CONCEPT where roles are still exist in GW2, but not the same Tank/healer/DPS roles. Here is the inspiration about, from the army squad. When there is a fire team (4 members), the first soldier is automatically assign as “Pointman” in order to lead the way, this is a role in the team, the last soldier will need to over watch the team’s back, this is his role; when there is a need to turn around, the last soldier will become the pointman, and the original pointman have to cover the teams back. This is where the role switching concept comes. On the other hand, U.S. soldier manual listed the most popular yet effective simple tactics, one team storm the enemy front, drawing attention and suppressing while the 2nd team strafe around and flank the enemy, hitting them from the side. But according to the situation, both team role is able to swap. Why because both team members got the same training, they are able to do both suppress and flanking role.
Same tactics apply to GW2, the drawer is the suppressing team while the flanker are the flank team, and this is just a GW2 version of basic military tactics, whatever name you want to call, fine. Our guild use this system to communicate our build and role in the party, and it is far more understanding than the damage-control-support introduced by Anet.
Why?
Because the focus of the DAF system is targeting on building our cha with 3 elements 1) ability to stay alive when aggro 2) deal damage and CC 3) team support, and the priority order of these 3 elements. On the other hand, Damage-control-support <— can you see any sigh of survivability. Nope.
For example, if a party with every member is plain flanker (full glass cannon no support), it is not a good party as their survivability is low, but i can’t tell if they are actually good skilled player where they can dps down everything nice and easy. But you will never know one player’s skill anyway without playing together.
This is not a concept for ones already understand the GW2 combat system and make dungeon a joke players. This is a concept for role building beyond the holy trinity.
So please, it is not asking a fix or change, it is for communication purpose, role playing purpose.
Guys, please don’t kidnap my post.
To those claims and believe the DFA concept is the same to tank/healer/dps, i am sorry my english is bad, but you are total not reading or able to read.
DFA is not a trinity, and personally i hate the trinity as much as you can imagine! The idea of DFA is suggesting a party can be mixed up any class any build. And none of my word asking for a fix to the game, NO! I love GW2 and the break down of tank/healer/dps role is what i want!
The DFA is actually what GW2 is doing at the moment! No change is actually needed! But what DFA telling is a character development label only. Just a name telling what my build is good at.
Who even got targeted is a drawer, anyone who is not being targeted is Flanker, for someone more focus on team support will be Aidman, what so hard to understand? But the role will change during the long fight, don’t you ever got this experience? if a drawer are down / defeated or ran far enough, the boss will choose another target! Then the other player being targeted will become drawer automatically. Drawer by no means a tank, but rather use whatever method to stay alive. It is not about taking hit, its the opposite, not taking hit or even run around to let other flankers do the damage. Please don’t tell me you spec in dps and able to dodge all attack, if you can do so, be my guest just feel free to be stay aggro and fight, no harm done.
DFA is never asking a specific combination to survive, but rather suggest everyone be responsive to yourself and your team. If you cannot stay alive as a drawer, please try something else to make yourself more durable without become the burden of your team.
For my warrior, i say he is F-D-A means my target of build my warrior is damage come first but able to stay alive being targeted but not for long, also he can provide some support to party, that’s it, its just a communication method or a way to help someone who found themselves lost the role in party. Here is another way to see “Roles” within party.
DFA system is viable even a full team of glass cannon, because there are always someone being targeted by foes, or to extreme, could be every member is a drawer. But if you are able to stay alive no matter method or gear you are using, you are perfectly fine. For someone who is not being targeted, and focused on dealing damage, they will be Flanker, on the other hand, focusing team support that’s the Aidman. The main point is, this moment you are drawer, the next moment you give your team support you are aidman, when you are free to deal damage you are flanker. There are no fix role, role is switching often. Therefore, the more your build is all-rounded, the more suitable in these 3 roles. And you are still free to build a focused role, like someone wanted to be bunker and do very little damage, fine, as long as your party accept your play style, so someone like being glass cannon, fine as long as you don’t die often.
But to those say i want to be a dedicated healer, or a main tank, there are no tank or healer build. Everyone is responsible for their own life, but you are always welcome to give support.
(edited by Crossaber.8934)
Played most classes to above lv40, warrior is by far the easiest until lv30…
Warrior by no mean to fight toe to toe, GW2 is about positioning, so gain an advantage position is always the best tactics.
For example, using 100B on multiple foes, it is fun but what if foes are widely located? what if the foes are moving? what if the foe is hard hitter? you are sitting duck if you just charge in straight on and 100B.
The answer is movement, use your movement to control your foe!
For wide spread foes, save your 100B, move to one foe and strafe around so that the other foes is behind your target, they wish to hit you they will move to your current target, bingo, you can now 100B all of them.
For moving foes, use bladetrail, or whatever skill to cripple or immobilize, OR don’t 100B…. you have a lot of skills to use.
For hard hitter, strafe until target used his big hitter, dodge if needed, use rush to get back to position and 100B, watch foe action and don’t be greedy, break your 100B channel if another dodge is needed.
Thats my greatsword tactics, same tactics is good for other melee weapons, mobility is a warrior’s bread and butter.
To MarzAttakz,
Thanks, another reader understand what i am trying to introduce.
Just wanna make a visualized label to show what good dungeon group currently is doing and how single minded role build is not viable in GW2.
I do not understand your categorizing. Your fluid role concept is just inventing labels within the well known idea of everyone can do a bit of everything. What is the purpose? Do we need those labels so people can imagine to fill special roles because “Since playing a MMO, most player do wish to have a role” – which I highly doubt btw. The term roleplaying has a totally different origin than filling roles like “tank” etc., if that is what you are alluding to.
For someone fully understand the GW2 combat system, this is just a label, yes.
For someone who get used to “roles” like tank/dps/healer, this is a new concept about “roles”. If you don’t need identify on your role, you are free to move along. My concept is mainly focused on building up a different “role system” because tank/dps/healer is failed in GW2.
For example, in holy trinity we got Tank / healer / dps x 3, but it is not working in GW2, as no Tank + healer can absorb damage forever. Therefore damage better spread between multiple players, and healing and condition removal job is also shared between multiple players. In my system, roles could be like below:
D-F / F-D-A / F-D-A / F-A / A-F
So D-F go in and draw attention while other 4 members deal damage and CC, when D-F is not able to absorb anymore damage, he should retreat, and let F-D-A to do the job, while F-A CC help D-F to retreat, A-F do the healing.
A F-D-A is not necessary aggro and absorb damage, they could catch aggo and kite or to stay alive until D-F is recovered. D-F is not necessary absorb damage to tank, he/she could be a bunker ele, just whoever build for drawing attention and stay alive.
It does appreciate the multi-tasking more than your role system. Putting people in rigid roles is what’d make gw2 fail. I’m primarily dps through conditions, although some conditions are actually support (vuln) or control (blind, weakness). I have 3 blasts on my bar which makes for control. All in all that’s what makes for flexibility.
The rigid trinity is for people without ability to adapt, an no changing of systems will change that. I remember in first beta people tried their best to make pure healers without realizing they were actually kittening their team by not using the damage skills on their bar. Most ridiculous were the calls for “water eles” completely ignoring the fact that kittening out 75% of your weapon skills is a bad thing, not a good one.
Players will change, but paradigm shifts invariably take a while. Come back with your suggestion in 3 months.
Please will you read my OP? My suggestion is telling why rigid role is fail in GW2.
The DFA system is a situational based role system.
For my warrior, i am F-D-A, means i am mainly a Flanker > secondary as Drawer > thirdly as Aidman, means i am able to do all role but in an order F>D>A, therefore somebody with a more tanky build without support skill, he will be D-F. An Ele not a bunker build is either F-A or A-F as they by default always have support weapon skills.
Theoretically, Drawer, Flanker, Aidman is a rigid role, but they cannot let alone. Can’t a Drawer turns Flanker? Can’t an Aidman turns Flanker? yes, they can, therefore the role is not rigid. This system is to encourage and educate players to build towards versitilty.
People speccing pure dps are doing it wrong imho. OK it’s good to have raw dps but as far as I see the moar dots nao approach is far more effective. My engi is completely condition specced and I feel it makes me the most flexible. Actually gives me room to have some control skills depending on situation. That makes me about .7 damage and .3 control. Add a defensive necro and we have 1.1 damage, .3 control and .6 support
As far as forcing trinities … no game. But your concept is no different from the current damage-control-support idea which works just fine. A team in gw2 works just fine as long as it has at least one of each instead of exactly one of each and dps fillers.
You are reading my concept correctly, thats why you found my idea is exactly the same to the current damage-control-support… But there are more in my idea, especially the role switching idea.
Since playing a MMO, most player do wish to have a role, but the old traditional holy trinity is not suitable for GW2. Damage-Control-Support was a good system but it doesn’t appreciate the multi-task role. Its just my 2cents.
To Sollith,
This is how GW2 works, but my concept didn’t eliminate a single role build. A dps build can be great help on making big damage for party but when a DPS get aggro, without survival skill is harder to stay alive. I aggree player skill do matters and congrads to you if your DPS build is able to stay alive when you become the target.
Since there are lots of players from the holy trinity are not adapting to this new system and can’t find their holy trinity role in GW2. Especially original ranged DPS class suffered a lot where they were used to throw dps at range and let the tank and healer deal with aggro problem. In GW2, tanks cannot absorb damage forever, they need to flee and heal, therefore every class got some tricks to “tank” a bit, it is where GW2 teamwork lays.
Problem is most players just spec for dps. In dungeons, some even do not bring condition removal.
Thats my concept is going to tell based on my experience in GW2, the holy trinity is not working in GW2. This idea is inspirited by nowadays military. Assault team storm the front and make suppressing fire, keep foes busy while flanking team strafe around and kill. But both team can switch role in different situation.
Since the release of GW2, the Dev is targeted to take away the holy trinity in traditional MMO. Personally I like this idea a lot, but many player found losing their identity in the team. Do we really missed all the ROLES within a party? This concept is targeting PvE only, please do not bring PvP into concideration, thank you!
Here is my idea:
DFA system for GW2
Drawer – the player who is currently being targeted by npc, the key of being drawer is to stay alive. Tanking / Kiting / Dodging with all the tricks in your sleeve.
Flanker – player who focused on dealing damage while not being targeted, either direct damage / condition damage / debuff with everything you got.
Aidman – player who focused on supporting your allies, healing / protecting / buffing / remove condition while still able to deal damage.
But are we done here? What so different to holy trinity?
Here we go! The answer is role switching. Since we don’t have ability to hold aggro, and the hate system is different, we do experienced switching aggro a lot. And also tanky build are not able to stand still and absorb damage, neither do healer can out heal the tank. So we don’t actually have Tank. Therefore anyone who gain current aggro become the Drawer role. And any player who do not have aggro will become Flanker or Aidman (depends you give support or not).
DRAWER compare to TANK – Anet gave all classes different tricks to become a Drawer: CC, invulnerably, teleport, high hp or high armor and MOVEMENT. Because a drawer targeted to stay alive doesn’t mean absorb damage or being out healed anyway, so this role don’t make itself a tank, but of course tanky is a way to do a Drawer. And movement is your best friend.
FLANKER compare to DPS – Anet gave all classes different ways to deal damage: direct damage, condition damage, boon, CC, AoE etc. Different class excels in their own way of dealing damage. Helping Drawer to stay alive is also a viable choice of being a Flanker. So it is not always how much damage you can do, instead, it is how fast / easy you can make the battle become. Also Flanker got high chance being the target with high damage, they must have tricks to stay alive when they become Drawers, otherwise DPS is no meaning if you downed. Therefore FLANKER are not DPS only.
AIDMAN compare to HEALER – GW2 healing is weak. Therefore it is harder to out heal a Tank. What an Aidman do is similar to healer, watch out allies hp, condition removal and revive. But if the team Drawer and Flanker are indeed low in hp, Aidman should able to CC, block or even Draw aggro so the team Drawer and Flanker can retreat and heal.
For example my warrior:
My main is a greatsword shout heal warrior, able to absorb some damage but the build is towards Flanker, if there is someone more tanky, i will do my Flanking job but i can step in when the Drawer is retreating, and in order to let the Drawer do his job, i can shout buff, heal, condition remove to make him more durable. My role is F-D-A.
Please feel free to discuss and thank you for reading!
Good hunting in GW2