Guild Wars 2

The only instance of P2W (and was a very minor case of P2W imo) was the watchwork mining pick that granted random sprockets in addition to whatever you mined. And at the time Anet stated they recognized it as such and would never repeat a similar item again. And so far they haven’t. You could still just buy gems with gold to get it though.

Did Anet give a predicted timeline to the lifespan of GW1?

“Difficult” content has always been in the game. Looked back at Angry Joe’s review and he talked about dying so much in dungeons he and his team’s armor imploded and they were naked. Granted he’s not considered a skilled gamer by many, but a lot of those early coverage videos from nearly everyone considered dungeons to be difficult. And since then Anet has consistently brought in challenging content. Tower of Nightmares, 2nd version of Crown Pavilion, Liadri, Marionette, Triple Trouble, Tequatl had an entire server celebrating for defeating it first. “Challenging” content is nothing new to GW2 and I don’t see why Anet shouldn’t make new content “difficult”. Especially when the setting calls for it as the wild Maguuma jungle does.

If I want faceroll casual relaxing I’m glad there are many activities I can go do that in. When I’m in the mood to push myself and face a challenge, I’m glad there’s a place I can now do that as well.

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

It’s a terrible analogy because soap and warm water are basics, where is legendary weapons are luxuries. More like if they said there was a massage room, and I wouldn’t have made use of it anyway, and they no longer offered it, even though it was still in the ad, That’s more what we’re dealing with here.

Comparing legendary weapons to soap and water isn’t really the same thing as comparing it to an exercise room, or a tennis court. I don’t go to a hotel to play tennis, but I do expect to shower.

Feel free to replace the mentioned issues with more fitting ones, does it make the depicted situation less preposterous to you? If yes, why?

Well it does change the situation. A hotel without soap and hot water, which most people will use is very different than a hotel that doesn’t offer massages that only a small percentage of the people will use. Or a specific weight machine.

If Anet said, look our next expansion we’re canceling combat, that would be a big deal to just about everyone. But if they said we’re not adding any cow feeding, only a small percentage of the people would be affected.

Anet probably looked at the amount of work creating those legendaries was and then looked at the number of people doing it by percentage and made a business decision.

They didn’t take soap and water out of the game, they took out a service that would affect far less people to provide more of something more people want.

I’m not sure how your analogy even makes sense at all.

Sheesh Vayne, I’d say even your analogy is all wrong. It’s like the hotel actually has a massage service and they advertised having new themed rooms like a jungle or something. You get there and the jungle room is under renovation due to whatever reason (room above sprung a leak and caused water damage, or tearing walls down to expand further, etc,etc,etc,). So they offer you the beach side themed room they already have instead.

The “massage” service is still available. They brought in legendary journeys, precursor crafting, etc. it just doesn’t have that particular theme or aesthetic.

Git gud Vayne.

Vayne.8563:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Interesting to note that the only thing listed from HoT is gliding. Everything else was from before that.

At least one person shortly above you said HoT maps as his thing, so gliding isn’t the only thing.

I would also like to add when I stated “fashion wars” HoT fed into that quite nicely as well. Not just gliding for all my flying characters, but elite specs and the head/weapon skins they unlocked opened up a lot of new possibilities for me. Also the new ranger pets, the mushroom masteries, revenant… So yeah for me fashion wars includes a good chunk of HoT as well.

Some really interesting things here, I’d really like Anet to give some insight into this.

ekarat.1085:

Morfedel.4165:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I suppose the biggest thing I take issue with, is that his video starts by assuming that the decision was a good one, and then defends this assertion by invoking an argument from ignorance over and over again. “Oh, you can’t say it is a bad decision because you don’t know how many people are working there already”, or “You can’t say it is a bad decision because you don’t have the metrics.” and so on. Basically, his whole video is that we are in the wrong for saying that this was a bad decision, because we cannot possibly comprehend what would be a good decision in this circumstance.

Yeah, no, I don’t buy it.

Woodenpotatoes is the opposite. Instead of using what we don’t know to assert that we cannot know, he builds on the knowledge that we do have and reasons back and forth between the points. Generally, I tend favor this approach, as I have issues to surrendering to ignorance. Deep, personal, existential issues, but issues nonetheless.

The one point he does make is that I think the community is a bit too outraged over this decision. I myself am more or less just mildly annoyed, but some people are just fuming. Social media is a bit like an echo chamber, in that the negativity keeps bouncing back and forth until it builds to the point where people start throwing bricks at peoples house. This decision isn’t that bad. But it is bad.

Except we don’t really know what’s going on behind closed doors.

Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that the real reason Collin left was because he was asked to, due to his reach overextending his grasp. He promised more than he could deliver. MO takes over, seeing the disaster on it’s way, plus knowing how controversial HoT has already been, and said, “Crap, there’s no way we can deliver on all of Collin’s promises. So what’s most important here?”

I mean, honestly, we really don’t know. What we do know is at least MO had the courage to come out and admit to us what they were doing rather than, say, let it languish without comment for some time.

Now, I’ll admit, anyone who had bought HoT with the new legendaries being a major selling point, they have every right to be angry. But MO and ANET has to look at the big picture, and if they feel that this needs to be done for the long term health of the game, well, to be honest, Legendaries really only affect a very small portion of the overall population, especially in regards to playable content.

That’s pretty much exactly how I imagine what happened — MO took over and had to make hard decisions about Colin’s promises, and that’s more or less what I read into the tone of his message.

I would caution from assuming this is Colin’s fault, but yeah, it could be a possibility.

While Anet having the numbers is a big part of his video, I think the more important part bog is trying to say is that Anet is being more open and honest now and we should be encouraging that behavior. Being open to discussion and not have them have to be so concerned that players will weaponize anything they say. That even if we’re angry, we should check ourselves and communicate calmly without immediately assuming the worst from them.

If they’re more willing to talk to us, maybe they’ll be more willing to tell us why some of our ideas are plausible or not. And with a better understanding maybe we in turn could offer more informed feedback.

I like how he also offers Anet advice that maybe offering some compensation alongside bad news might soften the blow next time. He mentions some of the ideas to possibly still allow the new legendary skins to be in the game. And I think Anet answering how plausible those ideas are would go a long way in calming the player base. Either way, hopefully good ideas are reaching them.

Rauderi.8706:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Rauderi.8706:

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

Wuh-oh, I hive-minded into the bog collective and posted his video in a thread! We are the Bog. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile

I don’t see anybody being a chicken little over anything Bog said unless they outright disagree with him. Don’t know what you’re talking about here…

If his opinion’s that important, he can post it himself.

The policy shift on legendaries signifies another disturbing shift in GW2’s development. But we knew that already. The “oh noes a streemur said” thing is just an unnecessary echo chamber. He’s not an industry insider or a developer, he’s a player. Like everyone else. It’s irresponsible to incite a panic just because he had a big huff in public.

I’d say the good thing about his video is that it highlights a point of conversation. A conversation that’s already started: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-weapons-6/first

Erm… but his video is not inciting panic… And he urges people not to act like they are industry insider’s/developers…

You can glide you can glide you can gliiiiiide! Think of the happiest thiiiings, it’s the same as having wiiiings…

I only preorder/purchase if either my friends are all getting it or if it’s a sequel to a game I know I want to continue anyway. Even without legendaries I’m still enjoying what’s already in the game and consider the time and interactions I’ve had since worth the $100 I’ve spent. So yes, I’ll pre-purchase. Even so, I think it would be in Anet’s best interest to offer us compensation for whatever ends up getting cut out in this current redirection. If only so when those of my friends who quit come up to me and go “Seriously? You still play that?” I can go “FREE STUFF!” and they’d have no choice but to join!

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Haha are a lot of people posting positive things just to prove Vayne wrong? Vayne, I don’t know you, but I read a lot of your posts and you should stop liking GW2 and stop white knighting. The power of everyone trying to prove you wrong will turn the forums into a paradise lol.

Gliding and masteries in general added so much value to my cosplays. Elite specs giving my characters access to new weapons and skins. New class revenant allowed me to make Donatello. I enjoy mobs actually requiring me to use my abilities to survive. Elements of the story were impactful and I thought it was really awesome how parts of the story took place in the open world and NPCs treated you differently if you were a Sylvari. Maps are beautiful. Horizontal progression is a great solution over raising the level cap. Yeah HoT got a lot wrong, but the good is keeping me playing.

LOL I love your post man, spot on. I actually like the fact they added gliding to all of Tiria makes some of those Vista’s even more spectacular!!!!

Thanks man! I did it! I solved the forums! The reason the forums are toxic is because Vayne has super powers!

Also yeah love gliding in Central Tyria! After every Fire Elemental daily I tonic into a jackelope and glide sideways lol.

SlateSloan.3654:

I still think the majority of players went from gw1 to gw2. gw1 community had a name back in the days for being a very mature audience though we where young. The game itself had a name for offering most beautiful graphics for an onlinegame, also the topic was pretty mature and true to itself. You had no pink glittering asuras jumping around or weapons which look like some candy handhelds from funfairs. or some tiny npc girls inside a half baked story jiggling around finding their kitten girly loveboat… Its just extreme unbelieveable what junk they made out of the lore. I think its ok that companies dont care for gender, sexual habits, etc when hiring staff but heres a kitten majority of players to serve. Its just unbelieveable how much transgender and homosexual influence is put into an electronic entertainment product aimed at families and casual players. When arenanet had gw2 in developement they already knew what they would be about to make out of the once mature medieval world.

Walking Dead has/had openly gay characters in prominent roles. Legend of Korra, a Nickelodeon cartoon has a lesbian protagonist. It’s a new age, homosexuality is becoming more mainstream and no longer taboo. Even to younger audiences. I didn’t play GW1 but I can see how the silliness in GW2 might clash with a super dark serious prequel. I think there are still a decent amount of serious moments in GW2 though. IMO a great story has both light hearted and serious moments (not that GW2 story is great or anything though lol). Despite the forums, GW2 was (and I hope still is) considered to have one of the friendliest and most welcoming online communities. I would hope that still counts us as “mature”.

mazut.4296:

He is absolutely right, even if his numbers are surely not exact. I’m also a little bit disappointed, but if I get more story/events I’ll be happier.

Yeah I agree, disappointed, but if this leads to better things I’ll be staying. But his numbers weren’t the point, they were just an example of what kind of numbers could persuade Anet to take the actions they did. The numbers were never meant to be accurate.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Maybe if MO or someone else from ANET would drop by after 4 days and talk to us, offering a better solution there might be less raging. But considering he only posted 3 posts since the beginning of this thread (1 being the main one, saying that we’re not getting the legy and the 3rd being the message talking about how he thinks this product was delivered in a complete form… lol) it is kind of obvious that players will rage.
I think Minx put most of our thoughts together into a big post and posted it on this thread yesterday. Someone should bump it up.

Yes and the instant accusations and in-fighting here isn’t helping.

Haha are a lot of people posting positive things just to prove Vayne wrong? Vayne, I don’t know you, but I read a lot of your posts and you should stop liking GW2 and stop white knighting. The power of everyone trying to prove you wrong will turn the forums into a paradise lol.

Gliding and masteries in general added so much value to my cosplays. Elite specs giving my characters access to new weapons and skins. New class revenant allowed me to make Donatello. I enjoy mobs actually requiring me to use my abilities to survive. Elements of the story were impactful and I thought it was really awesome how parts of the story took place in the open world and NPCs treated you differently if you were a Sylvari. Maps are beautiful. Horizontal progression is a great solution over raising the level cap. Yeah HoT got a lot wrong, but the good is keeping me playing.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Rising Blade.9206:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

Storyboarding could be done by a matter of 3-7 people, scriptwriter 3 at a maximum, concept artists 2 or 1. Hell the whole pre-production stage can be done by less 20 people or less, but 70 people? it either says they’re incompetent enough of being able to do a SINGLE TASK with few people or they’re rushing the expansion AGAIN and leaving the current one down the gutter.

i’m starting to believe that those involved with the legendaries are stuck with the kitten conceptualization but hey, who knows.

I never intended to list every possible job description on that team. I just said we don’t know. And you can’t know how their teams work or what is required for each team or how many it takes to do said job either.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

And then you have no idea why the 6 man team was taken off in the first place. MO said the legendary weapons team could work on them for years to come, which indicates to me something unforeseen has greatly increased the time it takes to complete these journeys/collections. Possibly long enough to not make them worthwhile. And it might be a job that won’t be made more efficient simply by throwing more people at it. We simply don’t know and can’t assume one way or the other.

Exactly, I don’t. And neither do you.
What I DO know is that I paid for features that they canceled so – and this is the only thing the customer should really know.
By paying, we held our end of the deal, now it’s on ANET to hold their end of the deal.

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

And then you have no idea why the 6 man team was taken off in the first place. MO said the legendary weapons team could work on them for years to come, which indicates to me something unforeseen has greatly increased the time it takes to complete these journeys/collections. Possibly long enough to not make them worthwhile. And it might be a job that won’t be made more efficient simply by throwing more people at it. We simply don’t know and can’t assume one way or the other.

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

On the same note, it is important to aknowledge, that what made that differenc back than, was the players complaining and not giving up on the game and walking away.

Yeah hopefully something players are saying helps in some way. Like if people can be taken off the xpac team to assist legendary team instead, or if reverting to old legendary mystic toilet system might still bring the weapons in game, or if hiring more people will help. But we have no insight whether any of that is possible or not. We should be offering advise like this to them without raging and without accusatory tones. And if not possible ask for an explanation why. This should be a discussion, not a rage charged debate.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

Rauderi.8706:

What I object to is every fanboy regurgitating streamers (ohlook, there’s a BogOtter thread..) because some ‘icon’ decided they’re upset or bored. It’s beyond Chicken Little crying just because one player is being a human whose opinion evolved over a little game development detail.

Wuh-oh, I hive-minded into the bog collective and posted his video in a thread! We are the Bog. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile

I don’t see anybody being a chicken little over anything Bog said unless they outright disagree with him. Don’t know what you’re talking about here…

RoseofGilead.8907:

Valky.2574:

Don’t you mean possible LAST video for gw2 .. he is thinking of quiting now

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4c9r5d/wooden_potatoes_no_more_new_legendary_weapons_a/

3rd post or 2ed if you don’t count the topic

Eh, he said:

“I don’t like the sound of their future expansions at all if this is really where they think they should be, size wise. So in a world where that’s all they put out? For sure I’ll be moving on.”

He said something similar in the video, too. So, if Mo (and/or ArenaNet at large) come out and say “Yeah, we really do think HoT was the right size for a good expansion”, WP will be leaving the game. He didn’t say he’s leaving now or that this was his last video (or one of the last videos).

Exactly, and when Mo expressed pride in HoT, Anet has already made clear that HoT is supposed to be more about “features” rather than content. Paving the way and making tools with which to make more content in the future. And I think in that regard he’s a little more justified with gliding, specializations, masteries, etc… And I think Anet has said future projects will focus on more content rather than features, so… we’ll see I guess…

Either way canceling legendaries is still really ugly imo, but hopefully it works out for the better.

Roxhemar.6039:

Wooden Potatoes put it in a way better way.

Civil War! Cap’n America vs Iron man, Batman vs Superman, Bog vs Wood! Who will wiiin?!

I actually watch and enjoy both lol.

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Yeah that was his point and I think it’s valid too. Though I’d like Anet to clarify why designing legendary crafting takes so long now, when they used to think it would take a month each. Maybe Anet and players would have a better understanding then.

Kastiel.1947:

Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Really? I was able to like his video. You should watch it again and check…

MastaNeenja.1537:

It’s not a controversy it’s a decision about a video game that doesn’t really affect anyone’s life. Be thankful you have food on the table every night. I don’t know who Bog Otter is nor do I give a care about them or what they have to say.

con-tro-ver-sy

[kon-truh-vur-see; British also kuh n-trov-er-see]

noun, plural controversies.

1. a prolonged public dispute, debate, or contention; disputation concerning a matter of opinion.

2. contention, strife, or argument.

Hmmm… <looks at public forum thread prolonging a disputation concerning a matter of opinion for over 40 pages over the weekend and continuing…>

Yeah you’re right, those dictionary guys got this entry all wrong. They gotta rewrite that ASAP. Sheesh who writes that garbage.

And otters don’t need no tables for food. Got perfectly good tummies to eat on thank you very much.

Form your own opinion and express it don’t let someone else think and talk for you.

I’ve posted on the matter before watching and posting the video. Doesn’t mean I can’t watch and hear another’s opinion on the tubes as well yo.

Bog Otter also addressing the recent controversy.

FASHION WARS!

There’re too many unknowns here to outright accuse Anet of shady practices. Even though there’s a blog post saying it takes a month to complete a legendary not including the art for it, that could have changed. For instance, after implementing the system to the existing legendary weapons Anet was probably reasonably certain they could do so with future weapons and wrote that post. But after initial feedback and releasing the next 3 maybe they found out a host of bugs and problems like requiring failed events and such and that piled up to the point where they have to rework the whole system(weapons, events, collections, etc.), making it prohibitively long to implement. Thus now Mo saying they have “six developers working on that, who could work on it for years to come”. So what was originally (and reasonably) expected to take months now requires several years to implement, possibly beyond GW2’s expected life span.

A lot of players would then ask “why not just hire more people to the legendary team?” Well, projects often don’t work that way. Imagine an issue of a comic. You have a writer, a penciler, an inker, and a colorist. Each worker cannot start their work until the previous person does their job. Let’s say the penciler is typically where production slows the most since that is where most of the visual art is made. Hiring more inkers and colorists aren’t going to speed that up because they’re waiting for the pencils. And hiring more pencilers won’t do anything because, well, try having multiple people draw a cohesive image on the same page, or even match each others art styles on separate pages. Some jobs simply can’t be sped up with more people. Legendary Weapons might be one of them.

Then there’s the “why not take people from the 70 man xpac 2 team instead of legendary team?” Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in completely different stages of production that require skill sets that simply don’t mix and match with each other. Who’s to say xpac 2 isn’t in a preproduction stage, and those 70 people are all concept artists, story boardists, script writers, people who specialize in coming up with new mechanics like gliding for HoT, you know, idea guys. While LW-like content is now in a production stage. They wouldn’t be idea guys, they’d be guys that make the ideas happen. Heck the 70 xpac people could have been LW people a few months ago while LW was in preproduction. If this is the case, it wouldn’t be surprising to take the legendary team that was in a stage of production, and fit them in a team that’s in production and it would be silly to take people off of the 70 man idea team and plop them in make idea happen team.

I’ve read a lot of posts saying HoT without the lengendaries is like being sold a car without wheels/engine/whatever components. I’d like to offer my own analogy. It’s like you wanted a red car, Anet said they could make it and give it to you. They have painted many cars already and are confident they can paint this one for you too. However, the red paint factory blows up, or the red paint making process is suddenly found to be substantially environmentally unfriendly and becomes illegal to produce, or a component of the red paint reacts poorly with the materials making up the body of this special car. Basically something that makes Anet red cars impossible to make for the foreseeable future. They offer you a blue car instead in the form of the OG legendary weapons crafting/collections. You still have all the functionality of the red car, you can make a legendary of any weapon type. You just can’t have the look you wanted.

Are you entitled to a refund in that situation? Yeah, I guess so. You paid for a red car, but Anet can’t provide it anymore. However, if you do ask for a refund I would hope you do so without being convinced that Mo/Anet are evil cash grabbers or that incompetence led to this, because this is not necessarily so. At least give them the benefit of the doubt.

If there’s any evidence whether or not Anet is evil cash-grabby or not, it’s that Mo took the time to tell us directly what is happening. If he were going for a cash grab, he would’ve stayed silent and continued clawing at gem sales till the game died. He didn’t, he wants us to know he will be honest with us.

Let’s also not forget Mo is a founder of Anet. He has led the team through core GW1, Factions, Nightfall, EotN, and core GW2. Even if HoT is a total flop (and I don’t think it’s a “total” flop), 1 flop after 5 fairly substantial successes should at least earn him the benefit of the doubt for a bit right?

RustyMech.9876:

I find it interesting that this thread has received more replies and half of the number of views in two days than that of https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Personal-Story-Restoration-update

A thread that has been up for 12 months and is relating to personal story.

Drama threads will always have more views and back and forth angry debate replies.

Well regardless of Mo setting the policy, he was open in the AMA and he was open about legendary weapons. Hopefully he continues to do so. He did the right thing in that regard at least, where he could have just stayed silent and taken advantage of that instead.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Well yeah it was, then players demanded an expansion and LW kinda got tossed into it.

Some players demanded an expansion. Even then, a lot of the reason for that was because the LS stuff kept being temporary for some reason. If they’d just stopped remaking Lion’s Arch, redoing systems that already worked, and made content that stayed longer than a month, a lot of those players would have quietened down.

It’s hard to justify HoT on the grounds that players ask for it. Even the ones asking for an expansion didn’t mean “Take a year and a half break from doing other content, stick the content you’ve already said you’ll make behind a paywall, offer an expansion that isn’t as big as we’d expect for the price, then give us about half of it.”

Yes, players complained during the old system, but it nowhere near excuses what we’ve got now.

I’m glad Mike is communicating more, and it does look like the game might finally turn around, but we’re over a year into a content drought now. Honesty about abandoning things we were promised is better than the silence we used to get, but it’s still a bad thing happening.

I didn’t mean to blame players in that last post, just stating what led to LW getting combined with xpac. But yeah, I think even Mo thinks losing legendary weapons is a bad thing. If the skins are there it’s a waste not to use them after all so I doubt this decision was made lightly.

Sourde Noire.5286:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Sourde Noire.5286:

Personally I have never met a single person who played all modes, really. People seem to be playing 2 modes at most, one being their main mode and the other being their mode to play when their main mode is boring them or isn’t fully available.

Sure, people dip their toe into PvP during leagues or swarm the WvW maps during the (two) tournaments (we ever had). But I always found ANet’s idea or rather claim that ‘people play all modes equally and that’s how we want it’ (as evident by the lack of split balancing and the daily system) hard to believe. I don’t have the metrics, sure, but I never met anyone in all my time and I find it hard to believe that people split their focus on 3 modes and play them all on a level more than ‘casual, here and there’.

3 tournaments. And Mo never said everyone plays all modes in those clips. Again stretching words.

Did I say that Mo said that? Stretching my words much? I was pointing out something that has been evident in their design philosophy (and can probably be found in statements if you care enough to search for it) in the past, which is related to the topic at hand. Even so, main-WvWers are still disgruntled about that. I wouldn’t want my main mode to be designed and balanced around people who hop between modes instead of committing to one, and I can understand their dissatisfaction.

Fair enough, forgive me for assuming you were talking about Mo in a thread revolving around (two) clips of Mo. And I don’t care to search for tin foil hat quotes or statements. I’m sure if they are that abundant this thread will fill up with them on its own. Yeah, too much PvE in WvW is a common complaint and if that is what you are referring to, I agree and understand that dissatisfaction. Just like I wouldn’t want PvP in open world PvE. I still doubt Mo (or Anet as a whole) assumes “people play all modes equally”. Otherwise why have a choice for 3 of 4 WvW dailies, 4 PvP, and/or 4 PvE? Also with the freedom to mix and match them?

CrashTestAuto.9108:

(And to be fair, the LS3 was supposed to be in the game anyway. They aren’t giving us something with HoT, they just put up a paywall to something they were originally going to do for free.)

Well yeah it was, then players demanded an expansion and LW kinda got tossed into it.

Sourde Noire.5286:

Personally I have never met a single person who played all modes, really. People seem to be playing 2 modes at most, one being their main mode and the other being their mode to play when their main mode is boring them or isn’t fully available.

Sure, people dip their toe into PvP during leagues or swarm the WvW maps during the (two) tournaments (we ever had). But I always found ANet’s idea or rather claim that ‘people play all modes equally and that’s how we want it’ (as evident by the lack of split balancing and the daily system) hard to believe. I don’t have the metrics, sure, but I never met anyone in all my time and I find it hard to believe that people split their focus on 3 modes and play them all on a level more than ‘casual, here and there’.

3 tournaments. And Mo never said everyone plays all modes in those clips. Again stretching words.

Beast Sos.1457:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never got what made those clips so controversial. Mo basically just said a lot of people who play WvW also play PvE. I don’t doubt that. Yes there are a lot of people who only want to WvW, but outside of a bunch of roamers and gvg/zerg-busting havoc squads I’d be willing to bet most of the pugs making up the zergs that make the majority of the WvW population are indeed multigame-mode.

He said people don’t go into Gw2 and play one thing and when he found out otherwise he was surprised….He has the delusion that who ever plays Gw2 loves every aspect of the game which is far from the truth.

He also said “generally” and “typically”. And nothing in what he said indicates he thinks everyone who plays loves every aspect of it. Stretching words much?

For all the people thinking this is taking away from HoT’s value, wasn’t continuing LW part of HoT’s value as well? I think somewhere they said you’d need HoT for future LW updates. So isn’t moving Legendary Weapons team into LW team still keeping that development value within what was paid for HoT?

I never got what made those clips so controversial. Mo basically just said a lot of people who play WvW also play PvE. I don’t doubt that. Yes there are a lot of people who only want to WvW, but outside of a bunch of roamers and gvg/zerg-busting havoc squads I’d be willing to bet most of the pugs making up the zergs that make the majority of the WvW population are indeed multigame-mode.

Burtnik.5218:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

3 years later.. 4 legendary weps behind paywall. Gg wp

And to the white knight;

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-legendary-journey/

I know you’re all dying for more information on new legendary weapons, but we’d like to delve into them more with a dedicated blog post in the future. For now, I’ll say that we’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates. The methods by which you’ll craft these legendary weapons are similar to the existing system, but we’ve refined it into more of a journey, similar to precursor crafting. We also want to better preserve the prestige associated with crafting a legendary weapon, so the new legendary weapons, and their precursors, will not be tradable. Keep an eye out—we can’t wait to start showing them off when they’re ready!

From handful to 3, from regular updates to no updates at all

3 seems like a handful to me.

Vayne.8563:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Funny…. I didn’t know bait and switch was legal

You should look up bait and switch. It’s absolutely not applicable to what’s happening here. False advertising would be closer, but you’d need to prove intent to deceive. Good luck with that.

Yeah Anet clearly intended on releasing the weapons. I think after releasing the first batch and getting the collective feedback of prohibitive material cost, requiring events to fail and other frustratingly easy to troll quirks, Anet stepped back, realized they had to rework this system, and whatever that rework is, is now far more work than when they intended to release. And thus led to the regrettable situation we are now in with announced content that can no longer be delivered.

Just my speculation though.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Danikat.8537:

And then people wonder why they don’t tell us everything they’re working on and when they expect it to be finished…

^this.

I find it funny that compensation culture has made it to video games.

yup.

Expansions are more living world-like content and that’s clearly the direction Anet is going. Yes losing legendary weapons is terrible, and hopefully Anet does something to make up for it, but this is where GW2 is headed now.

They moved the legendary weapons team to LW. Not expansion.

Yeah, this is certainly disappointing. But Anet’s been constantly criticized for “trying to cater to everyone” “not knowing what it wants to be” “having no direction”. Well, this is how you focus and gain direction.

Astralporing.1957:

Absurdo.8309:

Esquilax.3491:

I’m just sad that raids are obviously here to stay. That means a significant percentage of the development resources are being poured into the raids, which is a direct correlation to the percentage of how less frequently we get updates to the world content that this game was initially designed for.

This is false. There are 120 devs working on live game, 70 devs on expansion 2, and 30 devs on core teams that support both. In the 120 developer team, 5 developers work on raids, with some support from the 30-developer team (who also work on other stuff).

Source https://redd.it/48zlyd

Read closer. That was 5-6 people working on a single wing. Not the whole raid team.

Even if that’s the case, thinking that simply shifting the members of that team over to the LW team will increase the amount of open world content being pumped out is flawed. Simply throwing more people at a problem doesn’t always get the job done better/faster/at a greater quantity. Too many cooks spoil the broth, so to speak. Only Anet knows how many cooks they need, what kind of cooks they need, and where best to focus each of those cooks.

Well, the past couple weeks I made a few new friends. Met a Deadpool in a PvP dailies room and he was like “hey, cool Darth Maul. I got a storm trooper wanna see him?” Added me to friends list. He introduced me to his friend and he had Wonder Woman. I whipped out my Hawkgirl. Friends list. Running around farming rich iron and plat nodes, saw a Marvin the Martian. I switched to Mickey Mouse and offered him a better job at Disney if he would leave WB. He declined. Friends. An Azula found my Zuko and wouldn’t stop calling him ZuZu >:( ! We RP’d an Agni Kai. She was a new player so I answered her questions, ran around with her trying to aggro mobs over for her to hit and fill hearts faster. Not sure if that was efficient, but boom, friends enemies. Her friend logged on and she was new too… And it’s just been snowballing.

This is the most friend requests I’ve gotten in a very long time. If the population is dwindling, my friends list is growing regardless. Yeah a lot of my old friends have been logged off for varying lengths of time, and I miss them. But several still log on, and from what I can tell if you’re willing to go a little out of your way and socialize there’s tons of potential to fill that friends list again.

Serophous.9085:

EremiteAngel.9765:

2) Wizard’kitten = 200 gems

Man, how did I miss this? I want a wizard’ kitten

Gee golly gosh darned plural and possessive words followed by “hat” and “hit” being censored! Though I would certainly consider buying a wizard kitten myself as well haha.

All the things. All the things please!