Guild Wars 2

Drakma.1549:

That is exactly what I do. I download the json and get an md5 hash. I then compare to my database to see if the hash changed. If it has than I update.

Only one problem tho. I still need to download every item detail.

Adding an md5 hash to the items.json would be a huge help.

If you still need to download every item detail, then there is no advantage in calculating the md5 hash is there? Afterall, the performance bottleneck is probably the internet access to download every item.

Dr Ishmael.9685:

The obvious gap in a system like DarkSpirit’s is, of course, when an already known item/recipe changes. This happened to a lot of them on Sept. 3, when all existing equipment with Magic Find had their attributes removed, upgrade components that affected MF had their attributes/effects modified, and the recipes that crafted MF equipment were updated with a new output_item_id.

I would call that an exception rather than the norm. It is rare for them to change so many items at one go. Having said that, it is probably wise to do a full item/recipe update after a massive item patch release like that one.

If you operate under the assumption that the item/recipe data themselves rarely change, then that should not be a big issue.

Here is what I did for my trading post app, I downloaded the entire items and recipes databases into JSON files then I deserialize them async upon app startup. Chances are, the items would not change but more items could be added at a later date. If I find an item in the TP that is not in my items database, the code query the API server on the Internet. If the item is found from the API server, then my database is updated automatically.

This way, the app “learns” and updates its database through usage. And of course, I also try to release new versions of the app with updated items/recipes databases from time to time.

I use a modified version of this:

http://gw2.maximeloizeau.fr/invasions.html

I just needed to add a sound alert but otherwise, it has been reliable enough for me.

Dr Ishmael.9685:

Pillaging is no longer in the game, it was replaced with Hunter’s when they removed Magic Find from equipment. This recipe would now produce a Box of Hunter’s Scale Armor, and indeed, the recipe sheet that unlocks recipe 1010 was renamed to Recipe: Box of Hunter’s Scale Armor. The fact that the new output item isn’t in the API simply means that no one has crafted this recipe since Sept 3.

Thanks for the clarification, even though I wish we do not have to wait for an item to be discovered by a player before it is included.

However, I still can’t find common items like “Sour Cream in Bulk” in the items.json.

https://api.guildwars2.com/v1/item_details.json?item_id=12764

I am sure that players must have discovered it by now.

I have noticed that some of the recipes involving containers (e.g. Box of Pillaging Scale Armor) may have the wrong output_item_id. Taking the recipe id 1010 as an example:

https://api.guildwars2.com/v1/recipe_details.json?recipe_id=1010

The output_item_id is listed as 45218 but there is no such item in items.json. And if you look at gw2spidy, recipe id 1010 is listed here:

http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/1010

And its output item is suppose to be “Box of Pillaging Scale Armor”, and it has the item id of 8971 instead of 45218.

Archomeda.6472:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Archomeda.6472:

Hey!
And just as I was typing this, the API updated with Mount Maelstrom as failed, but Bloodtide Coast is still listed as active.

I am not sure but could this be also due to the overflows that still have the events on while the main server has already completed them?

Overflow servers are simply not available through the API; only the main servers are listed. And it would be weird for the API to take an overflow into account for one main server, as some overflows may simply be another main server. Linking this somehow is just impossible, as, theoretically, every server could be linked then…
Also, I think you missed everyone’s responses here (including from the developer Stefan).

I did read their responses but they are not very specific and thus could be interpreted in multiple ways. Besides there were a combination of factors that caused this, according to Stefan. Anyway it was just a long shot guess.

Archomeda.6472:

Hey!
And just as I was typing this, the API updated with Mount Maelstrom as failed, but Bloodtide Coast is still listed as active.

I am not sure but could this be also due to the overflows that still have the events on while the main server has already completed them?

I love exploiting speculators. They have so much yummy gold.

Can we fix this soon? It can’t be a difficult fix and it is really blocking me from getting some recipes. Thanks.

Warzaw.2708:

I believe so, yeah. I thought I got the wrong answer down initially.

Hmm…I thought that I read somewhere that it is a 10% increase rather than 5%. Maybe I was wrong.

Thanks anyway.

Warzaw.2708:

5% base damage I believe, assuming that’s what your asking.

So an ascended berserker greatsword is only 5% more damaging than an exotic berserker greatsword?

Nobody seems to know the answer, but what is the average % stat increase ascended weapons have over an exotic with the same kind of stats?

Thanks.

Lumiere.4609:

It should not be a 503 it should be a 429 – Too Many Requests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes and for the nerdy: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6585

I don’t care as long as it returns a Retry-After header.

So I am finally back from my week long vacation. I am not going to comment further on how easy/difficult it is to write a sell bot. You may indeed be right that it is not easy, however, I could still find existing GW2 bots that advertise a sell functionality. Of course, I can’t comment whether they actually work or not.

There are many working strategies to flipping. Some flip over a long term while others would cancel all their buy orders after 24 hours and start flipping other items. And yes there are more profitable strategies than flipping, I have found some myself but not going to disclose them here.

I don’t think it will.

Furthermore, having the exchange rate high in favor of gems, squeezes profit out of the gold sellers which is something that ArenaNet would want.

Can’t complain as I have been stacking up on ectos for the past month or so. But then again, I last sold my ectos when it hit about 43 so the current price is still considered cheap to me.

Many crafting materials have also shot up in price, making it less profitable to craft many of the high end crafted items right now.

Obviously they are not even attempting to stop third party apps from accessing the TP at this time. Not all third party apps are well written and some are just too spammy and it can be hard to tell the difference between a poorly written app and a DOS attack.

I can understand why they added flooding protection as they need to preserve a minimum level of responsiveness for the TP experience for the rest of the players and since third party apps hit the same TP server as the game clients, it makes sense for them to setup flooding protection. This can easily be mitigated in the app code through some caching and cleverer programming otherwise, simply add some sleeps.

I would have preferred it if they return a 503 status code instead with a Retry-After information in their response header though but whatever.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I’m undecided about how I feel about them. Part of me wants to use one, part of me wants them to be banned. I feel like the advantage should go to people who work harder. I’ve made my own excel sheets and put tens of hours into making trading more efficient. But this is an advantage that is both automated and requires no work for the end user. That’s an undeserved advantage.

If some can use this, everyone should. But if everyone used it, buy orders would be a frenzy of outbiddings until they met parity with sell orders, and the whole purpose would be defeated. That fact tells me these programs aren’t good for the game.

The programmers who did the work probably deserve it and the problem is that they share that with the public. Just like if you were to share your spreadsheet with everyone they would share the advantage that you have put in through your hard work. Because you put in the hard work, you now have a spreadsheet that gives you an advantage in the TP, the difference being that you chose not to share it. Maybe they shouldn’t be sharing their work with everyone then?

aeneq.1760:

I would assume the opposite, building a working UI driven TP bot is not this straightforward. Also since you are describing a flipping TP bot you would have to assume he would have to hold off selling certain items due to existing sell orders which in turn would clog up the inventory.

I am very confident that TP bots in majority is all about getting the buy, selling is a more “sensitive” and in most cases requires some hands on experience (or if the user is not flipping but doing something else).

Anyway, I bet there are efforts to automate UI process as well however I dont think they are viable for a number of reasons. If ANet had a working sell API then it would be very straight forward indeed…

I disagree with you. Most of the existing bots I know are UI driven thanks to tools like Autoit that has been perfected through many years of work. It is not necessarily a tool for botting but automating UI, however because of its power, it is commonly use by botters. You can read all about it from their bot forums which you can find by just googling. I don’t think you are familiar with their tools. I read a post from a botter in a GW2 bot forum describing how he used the PixelSearch functionality of Autoit to help him navigate the UI for selling.

To write an autoit script, you don’t even need to know a programming language, it uses a BASIC-like scripting language. All you need is a script kiddie with lots of time in his hands to get it up through trial-and-error. Automating UI is quite straight-forward.

http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/

Botters go for profit as number one. If there is no selling then where is the profit coming from in running a bot? If the bot has sell capability, it should not clog up its inventory, furthermore unless you are trading things like armor, same items do stack. I don’t think inventory clogging is as a big problem with TP flipping bots as you think. If it is, then TP bots would be hardly viable as they lack the profit which is the main reason for running a bot in the first place.

aeneq.1760:

Works just fine, sure the bot can have a UI interaction to allow pickup but it wont fix it. Cancelled money orders are queued just as pickups, i.e. if there are a lot of items before the gold from the cancelled order then you wont see the gold.

Since inventory space is limited and we can assume the bot is actually buying something then he will run out of inv space and thus wont be able to pickup gold from TP anymore.

If there are items in its queue, I am sure it would be picking them up regularly to flip them, otherwise the bot wouldn’t be generating income. As it is picking up items, it would also be picking up any gold from cancelled buy order since they come in through the same queue, unless there is something I am missing from your statements.

It shouldn’t be running out of inventory space if it has sell functionality which can be enabled through driving the UI and I would expect any TP flipping bot to have that.

Ofcourse this trick is restricted to bots who actively adjust their buy order down (i.e. if someone below cancels an order the bot adjust the price to the lower mark). Otherwise youll just ramp up the bot to his maximum limit.

Ofcourse raising it to the maximum limit is an alternative way to combat the bots but since they can track several hundred orders its hard to realise it.

I would expect most bots to actively adjust their buy order down (i.e. if someone below cancels an order the bot adjust the price to the lower mark). Otherwise it is too easy to ramp it up and let it over pay all the time. There may also be a concept of break-even price, which changes according to how much the bot thinks he can sell the item for when flipping so it may only go on a buying bid war up to a certain price and not try to outbid you above the break-even price.

I would also expect a sophisticated bot to detect if someone tries to undercut its sell order with a ridiculously lower sell order price so much so that it would buy it up and resell it as part of his own sell order and still generate a profit after TP tax. It would do its internal calculation to check for this.

These are just some of the TP “tricks” I would expect that can be programmed into bots depending on their levels of sophistication.

Buttercup.5871:

To be clear, I still think that notifiers cross the line by a mile (Aeneq understood; use of the session key by a 3rd party program is why), but that ship has sailed due to Anet’s irresponsible behavior (ie. doing nothing in this respect for far too long).

Because of the protection to the TP api, you need the game session key in order to get useful data from the TP. Even gw2spidy uses it as it would not be able to work without it. This is not a fault with the apps but with the design of the TP api being overly restrictive with the gem exchange rates calls, listings, etc.

aeneq.1760:

edit: The commonality between the TP Bots, TP Notifiers, TP scrapers (gw2spidy) etc are only that they use the same API and that they violate the TOS to gain access to session/character keys.

Yes, even gw2spidy has to use the session key to work and it was given an approval. They should have implemented OAuth2 with the TP api, so that apps would not need the game client session key so no grey area TOS violation any longer. But that would mean ArenaNet releasing an official TP api, wouldn’t it?

aeneq.1760:

edit: if you suspect that you are working against a bot there is afaik only one strategy to disable it, make it run out of money. If he is forced to repost bids over and over eventually his cashflow could be drained and hell stop working. This is ofcourse not viable on low cost items due to the amount of trades involved but this little tip might help someone…

Doesn’t work if the bot has UI driving functionality to take its money back from the trading post NPC after canceling its bids. I am sure many bots already have that feature since it is easy to implement.

aeneq.1760:

edit: The reason I made this distinction was to bring to light that the notifier does more than what gw2spidy et al does, its a minor distinction but since it has been mentioned that there is no difference between them I thought it would be helpful to make this distinction clear

The words “notifier does more than what gw2spidy et al does” is a very general argument. Does the notifier process gem price history like gw2spidy does? Does the notifier process and evaluates volume and price histories for each item as gw2spidy does? The answer is no, so who actually does more? In any case, I don’t see why who does more is significant with reference to the TOS.

edit2: one could argue that the API is there and the session key is already extracted so what is the point of this distinction, well if one argues that the API is there why not use it then one would wonder why not use the buy feature as well?

Just because you wonder about it doesn’t mean the app actually does it. I suppose you have to look at each app individually to be fair.

It thus comes down to how the API is used to determine how “ok” it is, some people would argue that accessing /me is crossing the border, some might argue not. Likewise some would argue that using /buy is ok as long as it requires user input and the some would argue its not.

I think you are looking at it too closely. I would say that a notifier app that uses the /me.json api would be more legal in ArenaNet’s eyes than a UI-driven autoit bot that doesn’t use the /me.json api. So assessing legality through the usage of one specific api just doesn’t make sense in the big picture.

I think that is how ArenaNet sees it, from a higher level view rather than on a per-api basis. If the notifier app has features that are used to enable more fun in the game, for example we don’t have to be shackled to the TP anymore to monitor our bids allowing us to play the game proper, then good. If the notifier app has so many automatic features that the player doesn’t need to play the game anymore, then it has become like a bot and ArenaNet would take action against it.

aeneq.1760:

I am very familiar with the codebase from Ruben, I went over it way back (last year). The character/session key can easily be read from the awesomium cache database and the character id from snooping the http traffic.

Actually both can be read by snooping the http traffic. But that would require more manual steps than just running a program to read it off the client memory and I seriously doubt Reuben himself has never ever used the program to read it off the client memory for the past 1 year or so, which would mean he doesn’t even know if it has ever worked before advertising it. That seems highly unlikely.

Its true there are minute differences between the gw2spidy functionality/access methods and the one used by notifier. However to play the devils advocate (which my wife hate when I do) the gw2spidy codebase never access or make use of individual account/character informatio such as buy/sell lists and only uses the session/character key to be able to scrape the database.

How he makes use of the game session key has nothing to do with the TOS. The fact is that the session key was read from the client process memory using another program and that is the grey area with the TOS violation.

A notifier however relies on scanning and processing the buy/sell orders and provide character/account specific actions based on this information. Its a minute difference in base functionality but the point could be argued nonetheless…

A notifier doesn’t need to scan buy/sell orders. It simply obtains those from http JSON responses just like for the other web apis. Like I said, it has nothing to do with whether you use your character’s session key for your own buy/sell list or for the gem conversion rate. The point that you were trying to put forth all along has been a suspected TOS violation in getting that session key in the first place.

Unfortunately at this point it all comes down to personal view and opinion which are things rarely changed

Our personal views and opinions has no bearing on this, heck even the TOS or whether we think it has been violated or not is not important. What is most important is whether ArenaNet allows this or not for a notifier app, and so far the answer seems to be yes.

jazzllanna.1278:

All and all I think that either we will see Anet take a stand at some point or we will see a flood of programs. I am completely fine with graphs that track past data for people to plan their auctions, it is the real time notices and access that is an issue.

Without the real time access of such programs, then we would all have to be constantly monitoring our bids in real time. I am glad the notifier apps exist so that I am free to play this game and get the items that I want at the same time instead of being chained to the TP checking my bids every few seconds.

In a perfect world, I would expect ArenaNet to provide this notification feature in the game and several other ‘must-have’ features. But considering that the TP even have bugs that are around since release, I doubt they are going to be adding any drastic features in the near future. This is where third party devs come in.

aeneq.1760:

However! It does violate the formal interpretation of the TOS (as long as you are directly interacting with the game client and not using external sites like gw2spidy et al). Since it is a violation of the TOS I can fully understand many players not being comfortable using one and thus the one could consider the “morally challenged” to have an advantage.
As such they fill a beneficial role for anyone and anyone using the TP should probably consider using one.
However! It does violate the formal interpretation of the TOS (as long as you are directly interacting with the game client and not using external sites like gw2spidy et al).

I am not going to pretend to be a lawyer and get into legal interpretations without formal training in law. What is more important to me is that ArenaNet gave the ‘ok’ for programs to use the unofficial TP api in the case of the gw2spidy situation. As long as we follow the same paradigm I see no reason why gw2spidy should be allowed and not other apps.

Another thing that I want to correct from your statement is that gw2spidy also has an app to directly interface with the game client. How else do you think they managed to get the in-game session key to check their gem conversion prices? You can check their source code doc here: https://github.com/rubensayshi/gw2spidy. As stated by him: “I do have a small tool (provided by someone else) that quickly grabs the session_key (by seaching for it in shared memory) without much hassle, I won’t be sharing it publicly but you could consider joining the IRC channel and asking for it”

That is not condoning bots though, as obviously they are disallowed and ArenaNet has made that very clear by taking drastic actions against them. A TP notifier app, however, is a different beast, we have checked with them many times, and we didn’t get any direct reply as they don’t want to set any precedence to be in the free app verification business and I can understand why.

If they were to start giving approvals/disapprovals to individual apps then more and more app authors would be knocking at their door asking them for approvals to many more apps. This is complicated by the fact that binaries can be infected with viruses in the future without an app store. Are people going to blame ArenaNet for approving an app that was later infected with a virus/trojan? Their usual reply to them is “use them at your own risk”, similar to how they categorized Textmod.exe during GW1 days, which incidentally also violates the GW1 TOS if used according to your interpretation.

aeneq.1760:

Just to be clear

We are talking about notifiers now right, bots we all agree are bad (with bots meaning automating in game mechanics).

Agree!

jazzllanna.1278:

Really? I am by no means trying to start a flame war. I have a serious concern with these programs.

Just to add to your edit- I never said that you said that bots should be allowed. It has been stated from people on both sides pro and con on the programs that they could be used to bot the tp. That is a huge concern and it should be for both sides of the argument. If a gold seller can go unnoticed trading on the tp with a program and rake in tons of gold is this not a problem? It may nor may not be happening but it could be. Please understand, because I think you may have misunderstood, I am by no means attacking you in anyway. My issue is with the programs, which I know you are for, but I am not against you.

In that case, then perhaps it is a misunderstanding between us and yes you replied just under my post so I assumed that you were replying to me. So we will not talk about that again.

As for your question on a gold seller using the tools, if the tools are free and available to everyone to download, anyone can use them, not just gold sellers. So if you look at both sides of the coin, the tools are not favoring gold sellers over non-gold sellers, they just help whoever uses them and possibly non-gold sellers are using said tools to compete against gold sellers also.

As long as the tools are free and available to everyone then it is a fair battle. I don’t see any unfair advantage here unless some people purposefully choose not to use them, then fine. That should remain their own choice. Actually we should encourage more people to use them. Why? Because gold sellers and obviously botters are probably using programs to gain an advantage in the TP whether you like it or not. So why not give them some competition from legit players?

It is a cyborgs vs bots battle! Power Xtreme! Man and Machine! Sorry I am a centurion fan…

aeneq.1760:

DarkSpirit.7046:

If you have not seen any such indication in any of my posts then do not insinuate that I have said this in another thread by calling it a “cross reference mistake”. I have never condone the use of bots in any other threads.

The cross reference was referencing Jazzllanas post about a post I made in another thread and you werent mentioned/referenced in any way.

I am sorry but your posts are actually agressively claiming I have tarnished you which I haven’t. Thus by claiming this you are doing it to me and frankly I would expect an apology for making false assumptions.

Since you were replying to my post which was accusing Jazzllanas of lying and you said: "The mistake here is the cross reference from the other thread which could cause confusion. " Then the insinuation here is that Jazzllanas was referring to my post from another thread where I was supposed to have said bots should be allowed. But the fact is, I didn’t say that.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood you, but I wish you would pay more attention to what you wrote because it can be easily misunderstood.

aeneq.1760:

DarkSpirit.7046:

aeneq.1760:

DarkSpirit.7046:

…

Slight overreaction IMO, the only time that specific notifier was mentioned was by you in an earlier post and this thread has never been about a specific tool so calling out for name tarnishing etc is extreme (BTW maybe you should stop referencing that tool all the time, there are other ones out there and you don’t bring anything to the discussion when naming specific tools).

Again, no I did not say that bots should be allowed. If you think that I did, anyone is free to point that out.

I can understand the need to win the argument especially when it is ending in my favor, but you guys should not have to resort to lies and libel. Please do not create words out of thin air and pretend that I said it. It just shows the kind of person you are.

Don’t know where you are getting the idea that I specifically said that anyone thought bots were ok, I have not seen any such indication in any of your posts.

If you have not seen any such indication in any of my posts then do not insinuate that I have said this in another thread by calling it a “cross reference mistake”. I have never condone the use of bots in any other thread period.

aeneq.1760:

DarkSpirit.7046:

…

Slight overreaction IMO, the only time that specific notifier was mentioned was by you in an earlier post and this thread has never been about a specific tool so calling out for name tarnishing etc is extreme (BTW maybe you should stop referencing that tool all the time, there are other ones out there and you don’t bring anything to the discussion when naming specific tools).

Again, no I did not say that bots should be allowed. If you think that I did, anyone is free to point that out.

I can understand the need to win the argument especially when it is ending in my favor, but you guys should not have to resort to lies and libel. Please do not create words out of thin air and pretend that I said it. It just shows the kind of person you are.

jazzllanna.1278:

What lies? And as the thread progressed, as is the case with most discussions, new views and ideas came out. I started by stating that getting text for the tp from an outside program is wrong. Another person stated that they could be used by bots, I agree and it strengthens my case that these programs should not be allowed.

I have flagged your post to the moderator as a flame bait as obviously you are going on a tangent. What you said is definitely not what happened. You are trying to draw a flame war.

I have never said bots should be allowed. If you keep insisting in your lies that I said that then I will ignore you and flag you as a troll from now on. Good luck winning the argument by debating with yourself.

jazzllanna.1278:

Not referring to any app specifically but just by the comments in this thread you can infer that a bot program for the tp to flip products is possible and at this point not against the rules because it has never been explicitly stated that programs for the tp are not against the rules.

Nothing I said has been a lie btw. I have never named any programs by name at all, I am just pointing out the fact they do exist and they can be used to extremes.

I did not say that bots should be allowed. If you have really been following this thread, you should not have to stoop to lies to make your case. If you can only read the title, we are talking about programs like Zicore’s TP notifier, not bots. Do you feel the need to reset this argument and make up words in order to win?

If you insist on lying that I said bots should be allowed and not against the rules, then I see no point in continuing this thread with you.

jazzllanna.1278:

Bots in the TP- Grey and ok

If you are referring to Zicore’s TP notifier as a bot then you are sorely mistaken. Especially considering the fact that his app is open source and he has declared it to ArenaNet who has chosen not to punish him in anyway. If it is a bot, then don’t you think that ArenaNet would have recognized it before you do?

I can understand your desire to win an argument, but please do not defer to lies to do so. Especially by stooping to tarnish the name of someone who has contributed almost a year of his hard work for free to the community.

jazzllanna.1278:

I think you just mentioned in another thread that bots could use these programs to be active in the trading post.. to me that is a huge red flag that they need to be discontinued or altered in some way.

Yes in the sense that Zicore’s TP notifier program is open source. But he kept it open source not because he wanted to share his source code with bot authors, he shared it as a learning tool for people who wants to create similar programs. Similarly for gw2spidy code which is also open source. You also dont have to download his binary if you don’t trust it, you can build it yourself from his source code. Besides bot authors can come up with similar routines on their own anyway. I don’t think there is any code in there that is ‘revolutionary’ if you know what I mean. The code is quite straightforward.

I understand that many of these external programs are in a ‘grey’ area because they give an advantage. Even for gw2spidy, you would be hard pressed (if not impossible) to justify that it doesn’t give its users any trading advantage at all when I have come to rely on its data for big trading decisions regularly. In the end, it is up to you if you feel comfortable to use these tools or not. However, since ArenaNet itself has not stopped anyone from using them yet, I don’t think we are in any position to force our choice onto others.

I wish they would add that. Thanks.

aeneq.1760:

Not necessarily, devs doesnt make such statements unless they have internal directives and guidelines in the matter. The statement can be read in many ways I however always interpreted it as Sure go ahead but we dont have an internal opinion on the matter yet so we might disallow it at any time.

Well if they say “Sure go ahead..” doesn’t that sound like a approval at least at this point in time? If they change their minds later, and they are very much entitled to do that, then we would stop our work. At the meantime, they have not shown any indications that they have disapproved despite what Buttercup said, which was my point all along.

Back in the days of GW1, they took the same stance with a program call Textmod. They declared that they don’t offer any technical support for it but they don’t stop or punish people from using it either so use it at your own risk. Many Textmod modules have been created for GW1 and distributed freely on the Internet, even on the official wiki to this day.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Textmod

aeneq.1760:

AFAI remember, there was never an official statement on these kind of tools from ANet. Ruben (gw2spidy) did get a response from a dev when he submitted a question to them and the response I believe was more in the line of “Not an official API, use at your own risk, no support offered” and not an official approval of the tools and the use of the API.

I have been trying to find the reference but am having a hard time doing so, I was sure Ruben linked it on the gw2spidy page but if he did its not there anymore.

Would be great if someone could post a link to it…

I was expecting more like a “This violates our Terms Of Service! Please do not do that!” response from ArenaNet if it was a disapproval. Clearly this shows that ArenaNet doesn’t mind Reuben to go ahead, but expect no technical support from them, which is fine. It sounds like an ‘ok’ from them, to me.

Furthermore, after informing ArenaNet on what he was going to do and he did it, did they punish him in any way? No and gw2spidy has been around for almost a year now and obviously he needs a valid gw2 account to connect to the TP and run the site. What does that mean?

Similarly, many months ago, Zicore and I posted on this forum and informed ArenaNet on what we were doing and promised to stop the work if ArenaNet disapproves. Did anything happen to our accounts? Nope. He is still developing his app and improving on it: http://notifier.zicore.de/ What does this mean?

Is there anyway to either get the account name or some kind of account id through the Mumble shared memory/API?

Buttercup.5871:

Exactly!

Off topic: Darkspirit, why would you use Zicore when you created your own TP program, which you earlier stated has more functionalities and works better than Zicore?

I have used both of course. If Zicore’s TP notifier violates their rules then why didn’t ArenaNet say so when we asked them? Besides, the way we did is the same way as how gw2spidy got the data and how did the owner of gw2spidy get the approval from them then? Are you saying that gw2spidy with its history charts, crafting cost calculations, and data does not provide any extra advantage to a user at all?

I don’t believe your interpretation of their rules is correct. Afterall, gw2spidy has their blessings and we use the same methods to access the TP. However, I would believe ArenaNet staff if they come forward and explicitly say that gw2spidy or Zicore’s TP notifier are not allowed. Zicore was seeking the same answers.

Also, we have been down this road before many times, Buttercup. In the end, we didn’t get any confirmation from them and no conclusions. I don’t see any difference in the things that you brought now versus last time. Are you sure you want to go down this same path again?

aeneq.1760:

I fully understand what you are saying but what you did when you made the reply is thread jacking, you totally jumped track with regards to my post. If you wanted to make this point again then you shouldnt have included my post, period.

I don’t want to give people the wrong impression that your example seems to portray because of the words you chose for your made-up example. The tool for TP notification is available to everyone and there is no such thing as someone using it as an advantage over another due to differing level of access. This needs to be clarified.

aeneq.1760:

DarkSpirit.7046:

aeneq.1760:

Think you are missing the point…

Lets say as an example that we have two competing parties for one item, one of them have access to an automated tool that alerts him when he is overbid and the other has not.

You forgot that all the outside automated tools so far that we mentioned are free and available to everyone. It is no excuse to claim that they have no access to it because that is not true!

If the other party chooses not to use them then that is his loss, and shouldn’t be forcing his choice onto others. In others words, if I am too lazy to even look up the wiki or gw2spidy, I shouldn’t be forcing others not to look it up as well.

If you want a more specific example, download Zicore’s TP notifier app http://notifier.zicore.de/

It is free and open source but don’t say that you have no access to it because you know that is simply not true.

Not sure what you are responding too, the example I wrote was a specific one to show the benefit of using a third party tool it had nothing todo with whether that tool is available to both parties or not (which wasn’t an disussion point in the post I made my reply to).

edit: and why should I use a program someone else wrote, its more fun writing it yourself

The point is if everyone has access to the same programs/tools then nobody can claim that it is unfair that they do not have access to them.

There is no unfair advantage going on here. The only thing that is unfair would be that some people are more lazy than others. People who are too lazy to install/learn to use these tools themselves. They prefer to come in the forums just to complain about others, who have gained an advantage over them through due diligence.

If I can learn how to use Zicore’s tool, why can’t someone else? It is not as if only I have the special privileges to download it from his website because anyone can do the same.

Behellagh.1468:

How would notification affect you? So you go off to play and you get notified that you’ve been overcut/undercut so you stop, tweak the price and start to play again when you get another notification. That sound less fun then accepting you aren’t going to maximizing profit or minimizing cost.

It is certainly a lot more fun than camping on your bids, checking and re-checking every few seconds that is for sure.

aeneq.1760:

Think you are missing the point…

Lets say as an example that we have two competing parties for one item, one of them have access to an automated tool that alerts him when he is overbid and the other has not.

You forgot that all the outside automated tools so far that we mentioned are free and available to everyone. It is no excuse to claim that they have no access to it because that is not true!

If the other party chooses not to use them then that is his loss, and shouldn’t be forcing his choice onto others. In others words, if I am too lazy to even look up the wiki or gw2spidy, I shouldn’t be forcing others not to look it up as well.

If you want a more specific example, download Zicore’s TP notifier app http://notifier.zicore.de/

It is free and open source but don’t say that you have no access to it because you know that is simply not true.

Behellagh.1468:

DarkSpirit.7046:

So assuming that you are right and we don’t have this feature. What do I do if I put a huge amount of gold to buy the precursor that I want?

This is a problem with low supply, low volume, high price items. So either save more to buy one from a seller directly or make a fair and reasonable offer and wait it out. Otherwise you aren’t having fun with the game because you’re camping on your offer.

You can’t just make a fair offer and wait it out. What is there to prevent someone who would come after you and undercut with 1 copper? Unfortunately, you have to camp your offer if tools are not available.

jazzllanna.1278:

I actually have no issue with undercutting and outbidding from players in game. I understand the market and how it works. My whole point was that these programs need to go because they are in fact outside programs that should not have to be used to use the trading post. Anyway this post seems to go no where because the only ones that answer are the ones that use the program and will defend them until the end. I know there are players out there that are unaware or just do not want to join the discussion, but I hope that anet sees the issue and is silently working to correct it.

If these programs go, guess what would happen, more people would constantly check their bids to make sure they actually get the precursor or whatever high priced items that they want, instead of playing the game. Would encouraging such practice makes GW2 a better game? I seriously doubt that. I believe that people should be encouraged to play the game instead of chaining themselves to the TP at all times.

jazzllanna.1278:

I am not sure silence means that it is ok.. maybe they are just not sure how to handle it. I suppose though that if people using these programs had more competition that was aware of them and knew how to use them.. maybe it would be less of an issue- because lets face it there are players that want to learn to flip on the tp everyday and they want to know where to start. I think that a guide for new players would be good.. show them the ropes point them to how to get a text and how to outbid and undercut. Maybe then it would not be such an issue because it would be 100 people getting that text looking to overbid you by 1 copper to flip for profit than 1 person actually trying to buy the freaking item.

If you trust the claim of the gw2spidy owner, who got an ‘ok’ from them, using the same way to access the TP would be fine, by extension. It would have been easier if ArenaNet gives a more definitive answer but in the absence of it, we can only draw from the gw2spidy code as the “approved” way of doing this.

Annoying as it maybe though, undercutting and outbidding has always been an approved action on the TP, to that I am sure and it will remain a hallmark of using the TP for a long time to come.

jazzllanna.1278:

When you use dragon timers or wiki does that effect other players though?

Strictly speaking that is not true. By mass guesting to a particular server, you push other players into overflow so there is competition to get into boss events.

Do you get a text message when a dragon is up because it is necessary? I realize that if this was to disappear it would cut deep into many pockets.. so I understand the defense. That said I still think that this should be a major issue that is looked into, or does arenanet just expect us to use the outside programs to use their trading post effectively? Was that the plan all along? Why not make a sticky then notifying all the players of these websites they need to sign up for so they can trade- without interfering with their game play, or watching tv, or whatever else they may be doing at the time so they know to log in and adjust their bids.

Since many third party devs, have already posted our questions to them, multiple times, and they have not given us a definite reply, I feel that we have done our due diligence in checking with them first. Some (e.g. gw2spidy owner), seem to have obtained a more definitive ‘ok’ from them though. By extension, many third party devs look into gw2spidy code and assume that it would be ok if they do the same.

jazzllanna.1278:

I agree with buttercup- you should not have to use OUTSIDE tools for something in game. I realize there is nothing that says I have to.. but be real to be competitive or get many items from the trading post you have to at this point.

I thought that programs from 3rd parties where not allowed. Just because it is not combat related I guess they let it slide. I am truly surprised it is allowed.

Guess what? Wiki is an outside tool. Gw2spidy is an outside tool. Boss timers are outside tools, etc. I can go on and on.

And you thought wrong. The gw2spidy owner checked with ArenaNet before he started his website. Many third party developers, including Zicore, checked with ArenaNet and even posted here in this very forum. We all asked the same questions before, multiple times.

aeneq.1760:

IMO the only potential API ANet would publish would be informational only, now whether this would happen is very doubtful imo. I would almost bet money that they are more likely to create developer api (informational) that are on developer request only and rework the TP internal api to block non authorized access totally

If it is only informational then I see no point in them doing it since we already have gw2spidy and the gw2spidy api is mobile friendly. The website reliability is unfortunately not as good as I wish it would be but we would have to live with that.

Also all third party devs would have to continue using this bot-like method to access the TP by emulating the game client and compete with real in-game clients TP traffic. If they stop this then individual devs would have to make a hard decision to hack the client further so that their tools and websites can continue to work or abandon their tools/websites entirely. It should be obvious which of these choices the bot authors would choose to take.