Guild Wars 2

You forgot about the biggest fail so far, namely the the personality trait system.

I wonder how much time and money was spent (wasted) on that while the game was in development?

Sadly, it does seem to sum up the way many things are developed at Anet. Someone has this ‘good’ idea, so they develop it a bit, implement it into the game and then realise they’re not quite sure what they were trying to achieve in the first place and it gets dropped or forgotten about.

If by ‘nice’ you mean listens to advice and is willing to learn then by definition the ‘bad. nice player’ is unlikely to remain bad for too long’ whereas the ’toxic, good player is going to be an idiot for the rest of his life and is someone I can live without playing with.

Also there is a pretty good chance that the ‘Toxic, good player’ will AFK if there is some small thing he dislikes, so he’ll be less useful then the ‘bad’ player in any event.

When are we going to see a fix for this issue?

Like many, I have a rock steady Internet connection yet frequently suffer from the client losing ‘connection’ and find myself having to re-log.

With an entire expansion pack designed around time consuming meta events that reward participation one would have thought that solving the problem of players being kicked from maps and losing progress would have been one of the underlying ‘known issues’ that would have been addressed first.

SAB is another example – Tribulation mode for the larger zones can take several hours and to find yourself being kicked after1-2 hours of play is hugely annoying and unnaceptable.

I sincerely hope that this is one of the top priority issues to be fixed in the next major April update.

All weapon skins will be replaced by placards that say ‘SAB or riot’

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but then again so is common sense and the ability to prioritize.

If the ‘legendary journey’ part of the development process was/is the most time consuming, why on earth was the decision made to spend all of that development time implement it for the existing set of pre cursors for HOT release?

Given that we already had a method for acquiring those, surely the sensible thing to have done, would have been to utilize all that development time to design, code and where artwork was complete; Implement ‘the journey’ for the new legendary weapons we will now probably never see and leave the current crop of pre-cursor journeys until after HOT launched.

Had that road been taken, we would probably have a full set of new legendary weapons in game by now and it would be existing pre-cursor crafting that would be getting cancelled.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Daroon.1736:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2/guild-wars-2-colin-johanson-leaves-arenanet

Google it – there are many more articles

Sorry. That article talks about people that left in the months before he did but says nothing about staff he took with him, so, not a valid source for answering a question about the statement When the Game director ‘leaves’ taking a number of staff with him

Please allow me to correct my error by rephrasing the original comment.

‘When, over the course of a few months the Game director and a number of other key staff leave, the president takes over the role and within weeks is issuing statements that effectively reverse decisions taken by the previous incumbent, something quite serious is going on behind the scenes.’

http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2/guild-wars-2-colin-johanson-leaves-arenanet

Google it – there are many more articles

Dawdler.8521:

Daroon.1736:

It appears that the game is in a bit of a crisis at the moment and there is quite a lot of repair work to be done over the course of the next 12 months or so both in regard to rebuilding customer relations and in fixing some of the many broken things in the game.

Crisis? What crisis? AFAIK GW2 is doing pretty well on the income side. There may be broken things but people still throw money at it.

When the Game director ‘leaves’ taking a number of staff with him, the president takes over the role and within weeks is issuing statements that effectively reverse decisions taken by the previous incumbent, something quite serious is going on behind the scenes.

Either there was always a fundamental difference of opinion on which way the game should be developed or more likely the decision to drop legendary weapon development and rush to get content out, was the result needing to do something quickly to arrest falling player numbers and in turn revenues.

Ashen.2907:

My company restricts its use of loss leaders to products that a customer will come back for very frequently (consumables generally) so as to ensure frequent exposure to other, profitable, products. We do not give these products away, but do sell them at or below cost.

It seems that an expansion that people keep logging in to play has at least the potential to serve that purpose. That is the basic business model of microtransaction funded F2P games after all.

The drawback to this model is that once you establish in the minds of your customers that the loss leader price is the price it becomes an expectation. Any futre attempt to charge a profitable price for the product will be overcharging in the minds of your customers.

That said, giving an expansion away for free, with no effort to directly recoup multimillion dollar development costs, would require a very significant increase in gem purchases. I do not think that the gem sore, in its current, benign, state is likely to be able to support that kind of increase. I think we would have to see a paradigm shift in the gem store to a significantly more exploitive model. This seems likely to counter any possible benefit of using expansions as a loss leader in terms of retaining players who are willing to spend money on the game.

Clearly a well though out knowledgeable response and the point you make about resistance to charging for future expansions is certainly something which needs to be taken account of.

Do bear in mind though, that the initial business model was Buy to Play with Free regular content updates (‘an expansions worth’ was I believe the quote) and for 2 years, Anet successfully delivered.

HOT was in my opinion, nothing more than a slightly expanded version of the content that was already in development and slated to be released for free as LS3 and the various ‘issues’ that have arisen since its release have had a very negative impact of the general health of the game overall.

Many, Many people over on the Legendary weapons thread are calling for refunds and free gems as compensation, so a good will gesture such as I suggest may help avoid alienating the remaining player base any further.

Cyninja.2954:

Daroon.1736:

Cyninja.2954:

Daroon.1736:

Crysto.7089:

Financial suicide.

Clearly something very significant and serious is going on at Anet at the moment and all the evidence suggests that the things I have described have contributed to a serious fall in player numbers that could affect the long term future of the game.

The simple fact is that once Gem store sales start falling (and of course I have no evidence that they are at the moment) the game becomes unsustainable.

To underline this – If you can locate the ANET Financial report Q4 2015 thread – you will see that revenue for HOT was less than a normal quarters gem sales.

Gem sales and by implication active player numbers are the be all and end all for ensuring the game stays in existence.

For many businesses the value of ‘good will’ far exceeds both income and assets and Anet could clearly use some good will at the moment to maintain current, entice back lost and attract new players..

So your solution to all this loss in revenue is even more loss in revenue? Okay….

Clearly you are not familiar with the term ‘loss leader’ – look it up – Also look at the Q4 2015 financial statement.

Gem store sales are the revenue stream and to sustain that income the game needs a stable (not shrinking) player base.

Anet needs to win back old and entice new players to the game – Another poorly received expansion that generates less revenue than quarterly Gem sales (as HOT did) may provide a nice blip on the balance sheet every 12 months but if player numbers
decline, the viability of the long term future of the game is sadly going to be in question.

Oh I know what a loss leader is. I find it funny that you’d apply this to an expansion for an MMO. Then again, maybe you should read up on what characteristics usually qualify a loss leader, especially:

- A loss leader is usually a product that customers purchase frequently—thus they are aware that its unusually low price is a bargain.

- Loss leaders are often scarce, to discourage stockpiling. The seller must use this technique regularly if they expect their customers to come back.

- The retailer will often limit how much a customer can purchase.

- product is sold at a price below its market cost to stimulate other sales of more profitable goods or services

Lol – well done for copying and pasting a few lines from the Wikipedia entry for loss leader:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

Sadly though the ability to Google search and copy/paste doesn’t convince me that you have enough understanding of the concept to see how it would apply in this situation.

Care to share your thoughts on the Q4 2015 financial results?

Cyninja.2954:

Daroon.1736:

Crysto.7089:

Financial suicide.

Clearly something very significant and serious is going on at Anet at the moment and all the evidence suggests that the things I have described have contributed to a serious fall in player numbers that could affect the long term future of the game.

The simple fact is that once Gem store sales start falling (and of course I have no evidence that they are at the moment) the game becomes unsustainable.

To underline this – If you can locate the ANET Financial report Q4 2015 thread – you will see that revenue for HOT was less than a normal quarters gem sales.

Gem sales and by implication active player numbers are the be all and end all for ensuring the game stays in existence.

For many businesses the value of ‘good will’ far exceeds both income and assets and Anet could clearly use some good will at the moment to maintain current, entice back lost and attract new players..

So your solution to all this loss in revenue is even more loss in revenue? Okay….

Clearly you are not familiar with the term ‘loss leader’ – look it up – Also look at the Q4 2015 financial statement.

Gem store sales are the revenue stream and to sustain that income the game needs a stable (not shrinking) player base.

Anet needs to win back old and entice new players to the game – Another poorly received expansion that generates less revenue than quarterly Gem sales (as HOT did) may provide a nice blip on the balance sheet every 12 months but if player numbers
decline, the viability of the long term future of the game is sadly going to be in question.

It has been discussed many times, in many other threads – it’s not going to happen and nor should it.

I recently created a FTP account and had no difficulty coming up with a single word appropriate ‘irish’ name for a sylvari and a ‘fantasy’ first name and surname for a human.

Sorry but if you want to be Gandalf, Aragorn or any other popular name, you’re out of luck.

Crysto.7089:

Financial suicide.

Clearly something very significant and serious is going on at Anet at the moment and all the evidence suggests that the things I have described have contributed to a serious fall in player numbers that could affect the long term future of the game.

The simple fact is that once Gem store sales start falling (and of course I have no evidence that they are at the moment) the game becomes unsustainable.

To underline this – If you can locate the ANET Financial report Q4 2015 thread – you will see that revenue for HOT was less than a normal quarters gem sales.

Gem sales and by implication active player numbers are the be all and end all for ensuring the game stays in existence.

For many businesses the value of ‘good will’ far exceeds both income and assets and Anet could clearly use some good will at the moment to maintain current, entice back lost and attract new players..

It appears that the game is in a bit of a crisis at the moment and there is quite a lot of repair work to be done over the course of the next 12 months or so both in regard to rebuilding customer relations and in fixing some of the many broken things in the game.

I applaud the decision to focus on regular LS content updates over completing the remaining legendary weapons. However damaging in terms of player relations that decision may be, in the long run, ending the vacuum of regular content updates which we had all become so used to, will have a far more beneficial effect in stabilizing what I suspect is a rapidly falling player base.

However much some individuals may like it, there can be no doubt that HOT suffered because it was launched almost simultaneously with the game going FTP and the marketing department did a horrendous job of selling the ‘free core game’ idea to veteran players. many also thought it was overpriced and therefore offered poor value for money, and after much player feedback, Anet has admitted that many of the maps need substantially reworking to make them more fun to play for casual players.

In addition, WvW appears to be dead (I personally have not played since the borderlands map was changed) and The current Season 2 PvP league is probably responsible for the single biggest exodus of players from the game since launch.

As I see it Anet has 2 options to get things back on track:

1) Take 2+ years with the limited resources available to develop a much larger expansion pack that delivers value for money and hope that the game remains sustainable in the meantime.

2) Deliver another similar size expansion pack this year and give it to all HOT purchasers free of charge in the hope that many of the players who were disgruntled with HOT return and New players are attracted by the offer of the core game and 2 expansions for one price.

Thoughts?

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

Goals? What Goals? – You have one – get as many players playing the game and buying items from the gem store as as possible – everything else is irrelevant.

Prestige? – what a joke.

OGCraiggles.2541:

We need you to reduce the expiration time on dishonor stacks. You have a 72 hour timer on something that has a great impact on determining placement in PvP and that is kind of ridiculous. I missed 1 queue because I was turning on team speak, and I havn’t won a game, or have even a close game in the past 10 games and that doesn’t EVER happen except for the last time I missed a queue. So now I must stop pvping for the next 3 days when it is the only thing I do in this game.

If I could get even some sort of response to even know that A net still bothers with this game that would be lovely for myself and many others, as your “official” youtube channel has absolutely zero updates about anything but story time and there are zero updates or activity on your website.

Its gotten to a point where I have seen the PvP player base drop by 75% and with Black Desert launched, PvE player base has diminished while A net is no where to be found. Are you still even working on this game, or should the rest of the players who are wondering where A net is, follow suit and move on. This type of MMORPG needs monthly updates to survive, that is the only thing that has kept WoW running is dedication and I personally see none out of A net staff on such a brilliant game. So, are you even out there anymore? or at least sub contract to someone else to maintain this game.

I missed a queue pop once and it is 5 minutes max.

As others have indicated, If it’s a bug – contact support and if it’s an error, they will review your account and fix it.

If however you have accumulated that much dishonor through regular disconnects, being abusive, or AFK’ing to throw matches , 72 hours isn’t nearly long enough.

evanlegion.7680:

Eagelseye.6312:

The company just needs to delete SoloQ system and ensure that players can enter Ranked games only in full premade. This will sort most of the things out coz people will then try to match up and play closely with others players based on skill levels and experience.

Thus SoloQ should be for Unranked while for Ranked it has to be at least in full premade.

“How to kill gw2 pvp 101” your idea its terrible, the pvp population is very small and if you force ppl to go full premade the population will shrink even more

Anet killed it already by not differentiating between Solo Q and Team.

You cannot have a league based system where results and progress is made in a team format, when you keep switching the players in the teams.

Can you imagine a Soccer world cup tournament where before every game, players are randomly assigned to a team from all of the available pool? It’s just utterly ridiculous.

The theory is fine, but in practice it would see queue times go through the roof.

2 class stack max per team would be a viable alternative but even then there is no system in place for stopping players changing class anyway.

Now what – Nothing.

They stated several weeks ago that they are aware of issues with matchmaking and will be looking at the data for the next few months with the view to probably doing something about it when s3 starts.

This is a situation Anet has entirely created by its refusal to acknowledge or deal with a problem that has been raised in dozens and dozens of threads.

Had they dealt with this when the problem of pleyers afk’ing first manifested itself early last season, it wouldn’t be a problem now.

Celeras.4980:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Yes, 4 wins to get 5 pips, or if you are losing, some people seem to think, lose 3, then they need to win 3 to get 5 pips. So you can see why some people do this.

Sorry, those people are idiots. It is always, 100%, the same number of games at best. There is zero benefit to losing intentionally and there is no argument to the contrary. Counting to 5 isn’t complicated math.

Those idiots obviously understand that of course there is an argument to the contrary, unfortunately though it requires slightly more complicated math than your simple example of being able to count to 5.

You are not dealing with a situation where you are guaranteed to win any given game – assuming a matchmaking win probability of 50/50 – the likelihood of you achieving a 3 win streak is the same probability of landing a coin flip on the same side of your choosing 3 times in a row.

You can google the math but (roughly) you have a 12% chance of stringing a 3 game streak together against a (roughly) 6% of getting 4 wins in a row.

Put simply, you are twice as likely to be able to put a 3 win streak together as a 4 win streak.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Pure Heart.1456:

A related concept is that it’s sometimes better to lose 3 matches in a row.

For example, starting from zero pips (after a losing streak and then winning) gets you two pips, so you only need 3 wins in a row to hit next tier.

However, if you’re at 1 pip, you need to win -4- matches in a row so statistically it’s harder to hit next tier than in the example of starting from zero pips.

Lame.

Indeed. When ever I’ve found my self on my third match after Two losses. I pray my team will be bad so the next match I can get 2 pips and only have to string 3 wins together. But with that said, I’ve never thrown a match. It would not be fair on the other players.

Indeed, I pointed this out in a thread at the start of the season
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/AFK-is-back/first#post6003788

Nice to see you have a similar attitude to not throwing games as I do, but sadly I fear this attitude is not the prevalent one and along with the **** matchmaking and lack of action by Anet,. has contributed to the situation where afk’ing during matches is now becoming an ‘acceptable’ norm.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a great topic and I’d like to hear what other ideas people have that could incentive league play in a system where division matches skill level.

I think we would all be more interested in hearing what ideas the well paid professionals responsible for delivering have that could incentive league play in a system where division matches skill level.

Maybe asking for a discussion on your ideas before implementing them, might avoid a lot of the problems you are now seeing.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Daroon.1736:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Beating my head against the wall that is ruby. I will make it, and if I don’t I’ll be so po’ed that my rage will melt people as I walk past them, and I’ll never have to boil a kettle again to make my coffee.

Classic – now that was genuinely funny.

Seriously though, why? If it’s not fun, don’t play it – give yourself a break.

I’m stubborn, like really stubborn. I will not let a game tell me that I’m not good enough. I also want to get the ascended wings as quickly as possible so I never have to play the cluster ^)$k that is the league ever again. I know I’ll never make diamond, I know I’m not good enough. So the legendary wings are out.

Assuming you played season 1 acquiring the legendary wings should be achievable – you don’t need to get to diamond – Ruby S1 Ruby S2 Ruby S3 should get you that part of the achievement.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Beating my head against the wall that is ruby. I will make it, and if I don’t I’ll be so po’ed that my rage will melt people as I walk past them, and I’ll never have to boil a kettle again to make my coffee.

Classic – now that was genuinely funny.

Seriously though, why? If it’s not fun, don’t play it – give yourself a break.

UnfairOphelia.9763:

Oooh, I like the Belcher’s Bluff idea!

I think it would be awesome if they included something like tiny reward chests we could place in our Guild Hall, offering some sort of reward if found. We’d love to have guild scavenger hunts as a team building exercise (and an excuse to explore the nooks and crannies of these huge guild halls we have).

Yeah the chests idea is one I like too – being able to organise events with rewards would be a good step forward.

Seems to me that there are a lot of items and features in the game that are vastly underused and would make great guild hall upgrades:

1) Guild Belcher’s Bluff kit – Tavern 2 upgrade that creates a table where players can play the game.

2) Activity portals – Upgrades that allow teams to enter guild instances of the various underused activities that exist in the game:

Sanctum sprint portal – Crab toss portal – Keg toss portal etc.

Aside from the Arena, for an area that is supposed to be a social gathering place, there is nothing to do.

Adding all of this previously discarded and forgotten content could breathe a bit of life into another idea which seems to be going the same way.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Have you red the thread? Of course he’ll ask a question about legendary players in a thread made by legendary player for a problem affecting legendary players.

Maybe the pertinent issue here, which is only adding to the alienation felt by many players is: is how he managed not to see the the dozens and dozens of threads made by players who make up the majority of the player base and why he chose not to answer those questions put by players who make up the majority of the player base about S2 matchmaking – a problem which is affecting the majority of the players.

Evan Lesh.3295:

In season 1 every match was trying to be even, but this allowed players to grind through the ladder. Season 2 is the opposite of this, but players are clearly experiencing matches that are too volatile. Once players reach a division relative to their skill, the only blowout matches that should be happening would be from people coming late to the season. I feel there may be balance between the two styles of matchmaking that maintain prestige, but avoid an abundance of blowouts.

Could you perhaps answer this one simple question – What was the PRIMARY aim of introducing the league format?

Was it to attract more players into PvP or was it to provide a way for elite players only to earn prestigious rewards and titles?

If it was the latter, then your S2 matchmaking is absolutely working as intended and should not be changed..

If it was the former though, then may I suggest that after the great job with season 1 where the matchmaking was fair and provided a fun experience for everyone, it can’t be much of a surprise that you are now seeing the numbers of players willing to participate this season, fall off a cliff.

If you want, PvP to forever be a little niche part of the game, then continue on the current course, but if (as I suspect) you want to try and build on the numbers achieved during season 1 and expand the player base, this horrible, unfair matchmaking system you have in place at the moment, that is frustrating and alienating players needs to be changed NOW.

Evan Lesh.3295:

What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?

Admit you made a catastrophic mistake with this seasons ranked matchmaking and change it sooner rather than later.

Understand that the only way you increase the pvp playerbase is to provide a fun environment for players of all ability to participate.

Stop pandering to a small minority under the delusion that Anet is building some sort of premiere e-sport.

geekilo.8512:

Quadox.7834:

Mightybird.6034:

I’m with you. Similar backstory, played gw1. Played gw2 since beta.

So burned out, with this season especially. I want to play, but after one game I just want to facepalm. This season has gotten even more toxic than the last somehow. On top of just no competitive-close games. I feel punished for playing basically.

Same, especially since i play shatter mesmer. Sometimes it feels like a job to play PvP and thus i currently have the game uninstalled.

Thumb up +1 /clap

^^ All of this compounded by a total lack of communication.

You, me and many others have been starting and contributing to threads on this issue for months now. Accept that nothing is going to be done about it.

The best advice I can give you at this point, is to do what I did and stop playing.

Good luck.

Mysticjedi.6053:

Keep this season’s matching of similar MMR to create a roster, but put back in last season’s matching teams against similar MMR values (no averaging, that is what sucked last season).

Averaging would be fine if you adopt a system which awards more pips to the higher MMR players in the team:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-The-S3-fix/first#post6042308

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol , 5 pip for wins .. lol that’s where I stopped reading.

Assuming a return to the s1 matchmaking where you could have a teams made up of a players with different MMR’s on both sides, Why shouldn’t the ‘better’ players in the team who carry, earn more pips?

Testudo.4620:

Daroon.1736:

Ithilwen.1529:

I can’t really find any sympathy in my heart. This is the direct result of the system that many legend players said they wanted.

/Agree

Anet specifically designed this sad excuse of a matchmaking system to fast track you all to legendary at the expense of the majority of the player base – enjoy your long queue times.

oh yeah the majority of the playerbase is reeeaaaaaally feeling those 2 hour Q times

No, the majority of the player base has either stopped playing or are becoming increasingly frustrated and alienated by the matchmaking system (high MMR teams vs Low MMR teams) which sped you all up to Legendary.

If enough of them are prepared to put up with it for long enough, things will get better, but in the meantime, The few high tier players who benefited from the system will just have to get used to sitting around waiting to play with themselves.

Ithilwen.1529:

I can’t really find any sympathy in my heart. This is the direct result of the system that many legend players said they wanted.

/Agree

Anet specifically designed this sad excuse of a matchmaking system to fast track you all to legendary at the expense of the majority of the player base – enjoy your long queue times.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Daroon.1736:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Daroon.1736:

I would like to suggest the following very simple matchmaking fix for S3 (or sooner if possible) that addresses the following issues:

1) MMR Tanking (From season 1)
2) The stated aim of getting ‘good’ players out of lower divisions quickly
3) Fixing the terrible S2 matchmaking

Firstly abandon the awful s2 matchmaking and reintroduce an algorithm that creates matches of teams of similar MMR’s

Secondly remove the win/loss streak mechanic and replace it with a system that awards an amount of pips for a win based on the players MMR and their current division.

For example:

Amber league players with a high MMR might gain 5 pips per win and would very quickly move up – In emerald this would reduce to 4, 3 in sapphire, reducing to 1 in diamond.

‘Above average’ MMR players would start at 3 in Amber, reducing by one and everyone else would start at 2, reducing to one thereafter.

This system would allow everybody to benefit from once again playing ‘fair’ games against similarly matched opponents, whilst at the same time allowing good players to quickly make their way to the higher divisions.

Average players can make progress and are clearly incentivized to improve their gameplay and MMrR.

I’m sorry but anything that seeks to give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement and not current performances is always going to be inherently flawed and unfair. If you are “good” and you matter that much by yourself in a team you will get out fast enough. No need to sugar coat it more.

Maybe you are NOW good because you went through a lot of adversity or maybe things were always easy for you. But what matter at any given moment is how you are NOW not the road you took to get there. So please stop with the let’s manufacture match-up so the past repeats itself. Real life is already sadly invested too much in that paradigm anyway. Let’s build something better in the gaming world at least.

Eloquently put put the fact is that the current matching a system of matching high mmr teams against a low mmr teams does ‘give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement’ – I’m just looking for an alternative method that provides a better experience for all.

Yeah, I was alluding to MMR when I said “past measurements”as you well know. I’m all for something better, I just don,t think it’s necessary or even good at all to give more pips to strong players.

I would refer in part to my previous post:

Which is a better system – One where a high level team team rolls over 500-0, a bunch of new solo players 5 awful matches in a row to gain 5 pips

Or one where two high level teams play each other with one gaining 5 pips and the the SoloQ players get to play 5 fair matches to earn theirs?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Daroon.1736:

I would like to suggest the following very simple matchmaking fix for S3 (or sooner if possible) that addresses the following issues:

1) MMR Tanking (From season 1)
2) The stated aim of getting ‘good’ players out of lower divisions quickly
3) Fixing the terrible S2 matchmaking

Firstly abandon the awful s2 matchmaking and reintroduce an algorithm that creates matches of teams of similar MMR’s

Secondly remove the win/loss streak mechanic and replace it with a system that awards an amount of pips for a win based on the players MMR and their current division.

For example:

Amber league players with a high MMR might gain 5 pips per win and would very quickly move up – In emerald this would reduce to 4, 3 in sapphire, reducing to 1 in diamond.

‘Above average’ MMR players would start at 3 in Amber, reducing by one and everyone else would start at 2, reducing to one thereafter.

This system would allow everybody to benefit from once again playing ‘fair’ games against similarly matched opponents, whilst at the same time allowing good players to quickly make their way to the higher divisions.

Average players can make progress and are clearly incentivized to improve their gameplay and MMrR.

I’m sorry but anything that seeks to give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement and not current performances is always going to be inherently flawed and unfair. If you are “good” and you matter that much by yourself in a team you will get out fast enough. No need to sugar coat it more.

Maybe you are NOW good because you went through a lot of adversity or maybe things were always easy for you. But what matter at any given moment is how you are NOW not the road you took to get there. So please stop with the let’s manufacture match-up so the past repeats itself. Real life is already sadly invested too much in that paradigm anyway. Let’s build something better in the gaming world at least.

Eloquently put put the fact is that the current matching a system of matching high mmr teams against a low mmr teams does ‘give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement’ – I’m just looking for an alternative method that provides a better experience for all.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol , 5 pip for wins .. lol that’s where I stopped reading.

How and why is that less preferable than having an ESL team roll over 500-0, a bunch of new solo players 5 matches in a row?

Having a system designed to create a bad experience for the 25 Solo Q players who have to play the high ranked team so that they gain their 5 pips and move up, benefits nobody.

I would like to suggest the following very simple matchmaking fix for S3 (or sooner if possible) that addresses the following issues:

1) MMR Tanking (From season 1)
2) The stated aim of getting ‘good’ players out of lower divisions quickly
3) Fixing the terrible S2 matchmaking

Firstly abandon the awful s2 matchmaking and reintroduce an algorithm that creates matches of teams of similar MMR’s

Secondly remove the win/loss streak mechanic and replace it with a system that awards an amount of pips for a win based on the players MMR and their current division.

For example:

Amber league players with a high MMR might gain 5 pips per win and would very quickly move up – In emerald this would reduce to 4, 3 in sapphire, reducing to 1 in diamond.

‘Above average’ MMR players would start at 3 in Amber, reducing by one and everyone else would start at 2, reducing to one thereafter.

This system would allow everybody to benefit from once again playing ‘fair’ games against similarly matched opponents, whilst at the same time allowing good players to quickly make their way to the higher divisions.

Average players can make progress and are clearly incentivized to improve their gameplay and MMrR.

SolitaryJr.9654:

2. PVP and WvW don’t attract as many players as in PVE contents and there is nothing wrong in this pvp season system. Many people who are doing in ranked because of the achievements for the wing and badge on their name tag. If so, please punish them and let them stay in their division. Let them learn it through the harsh way. It’s pvp league!

This essentially is the crux of the issue.

Rhetorical question – What is the purpose of the PvP league seasons?

Answer: To attract more players ( by enticing them with achievements and rewards) into PvP – thereby providing those who might not otherwise have tried it, additional content that adds value to the game and keeps them around (buying gems) and more expansion packs.

That is it – That is the raison d’etre for every bit of content in the game.

So, assuming we accept this, the outcome of a well designed piece of content, should be to provide an enjoyable experience to as much as the player base as possible.

Seriously, who cares what achievements, rewards or titles other players have – If you alienate the majority of the player base with more and more content which (to use your words) ‘punishes them’ for being ‘average’ – they become angry, annoyed and ultimately quit the game – This is not a good long term strategy for anyone.

Presumably there is only 1 matchmaking algorithm:

If so, and indeed if it is set to always pit high MMR teams V low MMR teams, my dead Aunt could have predicted that; regardless of what division you are in or how long the tournament lasts, these type of unbalanced matches will continue forever.

Chris.6089:

I am just wondering whether or not Anet has done any sort of testing at all before rolling out the new algorithm…..

I don’t think there is an issue with testing, the algorithm seems to be working exactly as intended – it is the Algorithm that is the problem

In simple terms and as I understand it :

The Matchmaking algorithm creates teams by looking firstly at your current position in the league and then assigning you to a team with other players who are a similar position AND who have a similar MMR to you.

The system then chooses 2 of the teams who occupy similar league positions it has created to play a match:
Team A (The winners) all have a high MMR
Team B (The losers) all have a low/average MMR)

The stated desired effect (namely ‘better’ players winning and quickly moving up the league) is achieved, at the expense of the majority (who’s MMR is constantly dropping), and find themselves on endless losing streaks.

So, unless a Dev would care to correct my assumptions – everything is working as intended – See my OP for why ‘intended’ is not a good thing and needs changing sooner, rather than later.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Tomiyou.3790:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Tomiyou.3790:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!

S2 rewards winning!

Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.

If u win ur mmr goes up!
Higher mmr means potentially better team mates!
Reward!

Yea, but if you start with bad MMR, then you are kinda screwed, since you have no real way to climb, right?

Queue with 3 other friends!
Do some 4 man queues!

Play builds that are harder to die and can kill ppl!

The intention of this discussion is not for self proclaimed PvP gods to provide ‘helpful tips’ to those they see as below them, but rather to question whether the decision to implement a matchmaking algorithm that clearly is producing a bad experience for the majority of players, is good for the game.

Oh and more importantly, why, when it has been stated that they are aware of the matchmaking ‘issue’, they feel it is a good idea to wait months before fixing it.

Tomiyou.3790:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!

S2 rewards winning!

Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.

It would of course be helpful if Anet came out and explained if the widely held opinion of how the matchmaking is working, were in fact true.

If so, I can only describe it as a very poor decision.

…all of the time, but you can try to please most of the people most of the time.

I would have thought that this would be a good maxim to try to adopt when it comes to game design, particularly for an MMO.

My presumption therefore would be that the PvP season idea was implemented to try and attract new players to the game mode and to try and provide a fun and entertaining experience for as many players as possible.

And what a great job you did with season 1. Obviously I don’t have numbers, but my guess is that the active player base during season 1 was beyond expectations. Sure there were issues, but most of them (Dealing with Afk’ers being the notable exception) were acknowledged and attempts made to deal with them.

Why then is it, that for season 2, the matchmaking algorithm was changed for the sole purpose of achieving the stated aim of speeding good players up through the ranks, whilst at the same time providing a terrible experience for the vast majority of players?

It seems to me that the current maxim being employed is ‘you can’t please all of the people all of the time, so lets please a small minority of the people all of the time"

All the good work done in Season one is steadily being undone, with the majority of the remaining seasons 2 participants becoming more and more frustrated and angry. To make matters even worse, several Dev’s have already stated that they are aware of the issues with the matchmaking and that nothing will be done about it until the start of season 3.

Is tweaking the algorithm a 3 month job? Surely, getting back on track and providing a positive experience for as many people as possible should be a top priority – currently every day that passes sees more and more players feeling alienated.

Please fix it sooner rather than later.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Yasi.9065:

If you throw a game in the first few minutes of the match, that just makes you not good enough to carry bad decisions of your teammates.

Please do tell me how to carry a team going 1v4 on far while leaving close/mid open?
I really can’t wait for your answer.

Senpai-sama.

Cap close and then Either:

1) Use the mini map thing in the corner – It shows you where your team mates are and you can use your godlike pvp skills to read the game to decide where to go next.

2) Hope there are are a couple of players just like you in the opposing team, who; after seeing that your team has 2 capped points to their one in the first few minutes, give up and go AFK.

1. Acknowledge and then start pro actively doing something about players who AFK, habitually stand in base the entire game or give up early in the game because their team lost mid.

2. Matchmaking should always (I repeat always) try to match teams of opposing skill.

3. Where are the tutorials to try entice/educate new players into pvp – A few Target dummies and npc’s? Some thoughtful and well designed PvE type ’story instances would go a long way towards improving numbers playing.

4. 3.5 years and still no way to save and quickly select builds?

5. Would be number 1 but it’s never gonna happen: Get off the internal servers and spend a couple of hours each week logged on anonymously to the live servers.

No Dev response yet? I’m surprised.

Loboling.5293:

Did they really just add a bunch of options for stats with the backpiece? I already chose mine, but the stat options they added are a lot harder to get. wth. I want to be able to reselect stats, so I can choose some of the new stat options. If I misread the patch notes, forget this thread. But this seems really unfair, since I selected my stats barely two days ago. (berserker)

If it’s a legendary backpiece you should be able to select and change stats anytime.