CDI threads won’t change anything, you can make your constructive criticism all you want. There have been tons of good well thought out threads before anything of this was happening with zero arena net replies or which were simply closed/locked.
Which should explain the difference right there: The CDIs come with an actual Dev reading them. The tons of random good well thought out threads created a cacophony that buried its own potential value. Yes, we lose the freedom to post anything at any time and pretend to ourselves that someone there must have read it maybe, in exchange for 100% of the posts on-topic getting read and Dev responses a couple times a week. That’s a step up.
And as to ‘CDIs: not changing anything’, you do realize up until this last December they never revealed plot more than 2 weeks in advance – and now they’ve told us clearly and specifically “We’re wrapping up the Scarlet thing in 4 more releases.” That willingness to open up a little and relieve our fears this… plotline… might go on for the entirety of 2014 was a direct result of the Living Story CDI.
In that case, I hope the devs can announce which things were a direct result of the CDI threads. Anything short of that is speculation.
So much RAGE!!!!! Lol!
Probably because everyone expected Anet will try to redeem themselves for the Scarlet mess by hinting at / announcing a dragon or answering some of the myriad GW and/or GW2 mysteries. Instead, there’s a wurm boss (may or may not be connected to 6th Dragon) and some recycled watchwork stuff, as well as a new character. There are plenty of characters in PS-LS thus far, this just adds more questions than answers.
There’s enough dragon to kill atm and even Teq dont get enough attention cause of mechanics yet you want another? What if they introduce another Dragon and mechanics that will need more players to defeat than Teq? And at the same time precursor crafting will be release that will take more than the cost/time of ascended armor to complete? Will the rage stop?? Personally I like to see more Dragons alonglwith expac. But until then ill be content what Anet throws atm.
I’d rather have more dragons to kill than the slew of lesbian love stories, fembots, and rainbow shooting weapons. I’d love to see campaigns to clean Orr, I’d love to see the religions of the races expanded upon – like directly interacting with the Eternal Alchemy. I’m hoping the new character will be a bit more believable and in line with the lore. I doubt the rage will stop until ArenaNet actually expands on their game – treating it more like a game less like a 13 year old’s fan fiction.
If i wanted to raid like World of Warcraft i would play World of Warcraft.
I should not be forced to transfer servers and set alarms in real life so i can log in at a specific time just to kill a World of Warcraft style raid boss.
This new patch is just continuing the World of Warcraft raid boss trend, except one boss is recycled, the other temporary.
So you don’t like instanced raids as seen in WoW, but you don’t want open world raids that are downed within 5 minutes of their spawning?
Progression Idea: Expanding the Orders
Giving the Orders a purpose and a sense of progression will help players feel more connected to their choices. The Vigil – become a Crusader, The Priory – become a Loremaster, become a Spymaster
Using both open world and instanced events, the player could go on crusades for the Vigil: protect people and property, root out heretics, recruit NPCs to join and support the Vigil, expand upon the player’s home base. For the priory, the players could research artifacts and lore – explore new zones and get bonuses for doing so. They could research new abilities and consumables unique to their faction. For the Whispers, they could build a network of spies, infiltrate cults and pirates.
The progression here would take place in improving the player’s standing in the guild, getting more rewarding missions, and unlocking powers and items. I envision the player getting a base of some kind and building upon that.
A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?
I had suggested several times about Global Dominance system. Similar to WvW…we as players and as a server, complete events across the entire map of Tyria and receive passive bonuses based on the % of the map that we control as players. So if we leave entire zones(say the lesser traveled zones) to be completely occupied by centaurs, for example, we won’t be receiving maximum benefits. And you can use most of the existing dynamic events to accomplish this. There are many DEs that take over way points and camps that we as players can complete and push enemy NPCs back…thus acquiring a larger portion of the world.
This encourages players to play in more than one zone, get sthem out in the world, etc.
On top of this, put in a reward system for completing unique(different) dynamic events in a month. I.E. Complete 90 unique dynamic events in January and receive a Cesmode mini(just kidding). But you get the picture.
Is that big enough and outside the box?
The global dominance is a really interesting concept, and something we played with a bit back in Gw1 with the luxons/kurzicks but never really pushed far enough to make into a compelling system. Some questions and challenges that immediately come to mind with this would include: How would players playing in an overflow map make a difference, or feel like their time is being well spent? How would this work if we pursued underflow servers? How would this work for worlds that have relatively medium/low populations, or for players who play at off hours (say Australians). ? How would new players understand, and be motivated by this system, and should they be? And most importantly: How would this result in unlocking an advanced profession or advanced horizontal progression for your character? [I get how a system like this could be used for more world bonus specific rewards which is really cool, but I don’t fully see the character specific journey which was my original question]
The event idea is an interesting one, but it doesn’t feel like a “grand journey” so to speak. Do you feel like if we asked you to do 90 different events in a month, and that allowed your ranger to say become a Druid, you’d feel like that was a cool system?
I love this idea. Giving a character an Ascended form to get into is a great idea. I’m picturing the character hits 80 (this means you can’t up the level, though) and can choose a path to follow. So let’s go with Ranger to start:
Path 1. Druid – focuses on natural magic and spirits, gains a staff. I’m thinking some interaction with Oakhearts, healing the natural world, etc.
Path 2. Warden – focuses on beasts and their benefits, can use animals in the area to his advantage
On top of that… honestly how long would SAB actually REMAIN interesting if you could play it constantly? It’d become just like every other non-farming zone, ignored for being “boring.”
How long would Queensdale remain interesting if you could play it constantly?
2014 is going to be an amazing year for GW2 and the community!
Chris
Go on.
Is it? I don’t want to make any verdict myself. I’m just honestly asking. Because I think that AN wanted to achieve few things with living world. And I’m wondering if they’ve succeeded.
So let me ask you this:
- Does the world feel more believable to you thanks to LW content?
- Does the world feel more natural?
- Do you feel as part of the world?
- Do you feel the world is evolving around you?
- Do you feel that making content temporary is important to achieve the principals of Living World?
- Does temporary content has some advantages over permanent content?
1. Does the world feel more believable to you thanks to LW content? No. The story focuses around NPCs rather than the actions of the characters. The extremely dangerous threat of the Elder Dragons has been ignored for some petulant Sylvari.
2. Does the world feel more natural? No. The Living World has had no impact on the natural feeling of the world – if anything it’s become less natural because only one storyline progresses at a time. Given all of the conflict in the world, you’d think that multiple LW arcs would be occurring at the same time.
3. Do you feel the world is evolving around you? In some ways, yes. The changes to Kessex, Southsun Shore, and the zephyr expansion provided a sense of evolution. Unfortunately, we cannot go to the cliffs from the last one, so that diminishes that.
4. Do you feel that making content temporary is important to achieve the principals of Living World? I think the content being temporary being temporary is the worst mistake of the game.
5. Does temporary content has some advantages over permanent content? None at all.
I think you missed my point, perhaps due to missing a single word in my post. I didn’t say, “new challenges,” I said, “greater challenges.”
The distinction is important to the point I made. The character becomes more capable of overcoming tougher opposition. The character is more powerful, as can be seen by the ease with which he can now defeat opponents that would have previously challenged him. But, as is common in a game, the character moves on to challenges worthy of his new found power.
When I improve my chess game in order to be able to challenge opponents higher rated than I the progression is not illusory because I opt to play primarily opponents who are a challenge for my new level of skill.
You don’t improve your chess game by buying tougher chess pieces, you improve your knowledge of the game, your opponent’s strategies, your own skill, you know, the skills that live between your ears. This is the kind of skill progression that is far more rewarding then rehashing the same actions to get a more powerful avatar. This is one aspect that GW1 did better, something we loved about it that did not make it into GW2.
Greater challenges should require greater skill to overcome, not greater avatars.
Progression is tangibly growing in some capacity, not learning to play better.
(edited by Destai.9603)
As a long time forum lurker, I love looking to find dev posts in threads – gives me a sense of what’s going on your side. I remember prelaunch being able to find a dev post within a thread rather quickly, can we bring that back? Also, there needs to be a distinction between an actual post from ArenaNet and just forum moderation.
I want new maps because I loved exploring the ones we already have – they’re works of art. New Zones give us a chance to experience new events, stories, and even game mechanics. As mentioned by others, players returning from the first game want to see what happened to those old areas like Maguuma, the Crystal Desert, and beyond. It’s rather enticing to look at the map and wonder what those unexplored named zones contain.
Even in terms of this game, it would vindicate ArenaNet of the Living Story shortcomings and provide the long term fans something to sink their teeth into. We could also use more dungeons and world bosses. ArenaNet needs to be less focused on nerfing and subtracting from existing content and more focused on expanding it. They’re actively erasing all sense of history they’ve put in their game – adding new zones is one step towards remedying that and playing towards one of the game’s greatest strengths.
I’m really curious if ArenaNet sees threads like this and how they justify their current course when these keep popping up.
Please do not report on any farms or way to make gold here,for some reason anet likes to nerf every farm we have had.It may be just a way to make us buy gems and exchange them for gold.But please do not post farms on official guild wars forums.
I second this. The less ArenaNet knows about it, the better. They’ve shown their propensity to nerf in this game and the one before to a point that’s ridiculous. You can play the game your way, as long as it doesn’t mean making money.
We are indeed spoiled, and it will be interesting to see how the new MMOs will do, since people these days don’t give new games a chance to grow. The game either has everything at launch, or it’s a terrible game.
Wildstar better have a customizable UI or I won’t bother trying it out. The UI fills the entire screen, and I need to have my screen as clear as possible.
As much as I dislike the UI in GWII, at least you can actually see what’s going on, except for when there are spell effects.
It does.
It may appear to look as thou this is a qq thread but it’s not my intention,
The devs look like really nice peeps and im sure they are, they just have a nice way about them and i like them, i wonder thou what actually happened with gw2.Things from the manifesto are quite the opposite, grind for example, i am sure the devs have been asked this before but idk, why the change? what happened? was it necessary? was the manifesto a ideal to strive for but in reality not really possible?
Does anyone have any links to the devs explaining why the game isn’t like the manifesto?
Again this isn’t a qq thread, i guess they had to make these changes but id like to know why.
The manifesto, while appreciable was ultimately misguided. The manifesto was their naivety made manifest before they learned what a larger MMO had to have to survive. You can’t toss out roles, you can’t escape grind, and you can’t scrap endgame. This is what makes an MMO. They’ve made some nice strides to streamline the roleplaying systems and make things more accessible, but they’ve also created some hollow areas as a result.
They should have committed to adding depth and expanding upon the foundation the first game set- not selling MMO haters an MMO game. That’s just silly.
Show me where the endless gear grind is in this game and I’ll consider considering that they may have shifted from the ideas presented in the manifesto. Yes, ascended gear itself can be a bit grindy (read: Time consuming) to get. However there is no endless treadmill of tossing away old gear for newer, more powerful gear which is exactly what the manifesto was referring to.
There is no treadmill, as promised. The fact that they’ve stuck to the manifesto in that regards is commendable.
false. it’s a treadmill. and they broke their manifesto. period.
i don’t care if without dailies or monthly there would be less players online.it’s not daily itself the problem for me.
if a guy needs grinding, do it yourself.
do it for a new color or skin or just to make money.
that’s ok.that’s not ok: with dailies (or any other grind) you can craft ascended weapons and stuff.
it’s 5perc stats a very little advantage? or AR?
i don’t care. there is a difference with exotic.
(and AR is quite important for fotm.)cosmetic upgrades are still allowed and aligned with manifesto.
but not gear treadmill.You call things a treadmill yet show no indication of actually knowing what a treadmill is. Let’s put it this way… games with actual treadmills (like WoW for example) don’t need to have threads like the CDI currently open now. Why? They have an inherent treadmill to keep players hooked on a false sense of progression.
How is that progression false? How do you define true progression?
The progression is false because it’s simply an illusion. They inflate your power and the raid boss power at the same rate, resulting in a net gain of zero. Look at the older raids and gear… people blow past them these days with generic drop loot and don’t even bother going in them anymore. Only the latest dungeons and raids are valid, and only the gear from them matter due to inflated numbers all around. Net gain will always be zero. The illusion of progression and power. Actually, all that does is obsolete content that once was fun and challenging, leaving it wasted space in the game sitting dead and idle.
True progression (my opinion) is when you grow outwards. You can learn more crafting professions as an example. See more of the world. Take on and beat new content because your abilities with your character grew, not because of an artificial inflation of numbers that ultimately add up to zero. Maybe it does include building a place of your own, then building it up to be something you’re truly proud of. Maybe it’s learning all skills and weapons no matter how long it takes or what paths you follow to get there.
It’s certainly not adding numbers to both sides of the scale and saying “there you go.”.
That’s an interesting view. I consider progression to be a few things, all of which are substantiated by some form of measurement. Gaining statistical increases in power is progression – you’re progressing your own in a substantiated manner. I don’t think the deprecation of old gear or content implies illusion – it implies aging. Even in the examples you’ve stated, there is still this deprecation. While I agree that gear based progression doesn’t equate to a holistic character development, I wouldn’t go so far as calling is illusory. At some point, old content becomes old. At some point, something needs to go up in number – be it zones, skills, collections, whatever have you. That’s the idea of progression.
I’d go so far to the say that gear based progression is the most immediately satisfying to a larger number of people. I’m in agreement with you that there are many other dimensions to expand on, and ones that Guild Wars 2 ought to expand on. Yet, so many players are concerned about the reward. A new zone is released, what new gear do I get? A new dungeon, what new gear do I get that? Any systems of progression has to address the validity and gravity of new content and the rewards therein.
In the case of Guild Wars 2, I’d say that ArenaNet has eloquently addressed some of the conundrums surrounding progression. They’ve made laurels more widely obtained – allowing players to revisit old content in a new light.
Show me where the endless gear grind is in this game and I’ll consider considering that they may have shifted from the ideas presented in the manifesto. Yes, ascended gear itself can be a bit grindy (read: Time consuming) to get. However there is no endless treadmill of tossing away old gear for newer, more powerful gear which is exactly what the manifesto was referring to.
There is no treadmill, as promised. The fact that they’ve stuck to the manifesto in that regards is commendable.
false. it’s a treadmill. and they broke their manifesto. period.
i don’t care if without dailies or monthly there would be less players online.it’s not daily itself the problem for me.
if a guy needs grinding, do it yourself.
do it for a new color or skin or just to make money.
that’s ok.that’s not ok: with dailies (or any other grind) you can craft ascended weapons and stuff.
it’s 5perc stats a very little advantage? or AR?
i don’t care. there is a difference with exotic.
(and AR is quite important for fotm.)cosmetic upgrades are still allowed and aligned with manifesto.
but not gear treadmill.You call things a treadmill yet show no indication of actually knowing what a treadmill is. Let’s put it this way… games with actual treadmills (like WoW for example) don’t need to have threads like the CDI currently open now. Why? They have an inherent treadmill to keep players hooked on a false sense of progression.
How is that progression false? How do you define true progression?
More like:
1. SPvP is a huge step down from the acclaimed GvG fights that gave GW1 it’s competitive reputation.
2. The build system is made even more restriction by the stupidly low selection of weapons, utilities, healing skills, and elites available to each profession.
3. Too many resources are being used on the wrong things. Instead of improving the core experience, so much development time and talent has been wasted on a lackluster living story arc.
4. Too much emphasis on twitch reactions as a form of skill and not nearly enough emphasis on intelligent skill choice, skill usage, and team coordination. (PvE)
5. Too much emphasis on zerging. Not enough emphasis on small group roaming. (WvW)
6. Rewards for dynamic events, fractals, and many of the more difficult dungeon paths are pitiful.
7. The balance team does next to nothing.
8. Poor stat nomenclature balance – especially in PvE. Con damage is too worthless in PvE, while being overpowered in pvp formats. Berserker is too valuable in PvE content. Healing power is all around meh – unless you’re an SPvP bunker.
9. Underwater combat still feels like an alpha product.
And…. despite it all…..
10. Too many critics. You have to acknowledge your shortcomings, but it’s easy to get sick of all the whining posts. We need some balance in the force.
11. Too many unfinished details. For instance, the personal story is only instanced adventure we can partake. There are no arcs for the orders, for other factions, it’s just that one. Even the supporting systems, such as charm and dignity fall to the side. The cities are empty – no minimgames or storylines to partake in. Southsun cove is a wasted idea – there’s no reason to go there. They stopped the story destiny’s edge, as bad as it was, and now we’re onto living story. All of this adds to a sense of incompleteness in a world ripe with potential.
12. Bucking tradition. There are certain things in MMOs that exist for a reason. The trinity existed to support roles, the very cornerstone of roleplaying games. Without it, the game becomes a race to burn down foes, rather than enjoying the style of your role. The abilities between professions (why can’t they be called classes?) becomes amorphis after a while when the focus is on zerging. Their refusal to add raids negates any change at having a meaningful team fight, and when an efficient method of beating a boss is found, it’s nerfed. Their refusal to add additional permanent dungeons further inhibits. Everything that makes an MMO what it is, is being denied in favour of a living world – an even more shallow product than the vanilla game. They had a great product at launch, and rather than strengthening it and adding more of what players love, we’re given achievements. So many MMOs add dungeons and zones in patchs – and leave the kitten things in there – so those games have a sense of history and don’t rush players to eshew their long term goals.
This game is better because of its critics. We could just go elsewhere, we could ask for a refund. Instead we stick around because we believe in the game and want to see it become as fulfilling as it can be.
This.
So GW1 wasn’t actually good enough to stand on its own then, and lost the appeal when they no longer developed new stuff for it?
Wouldn’t that suggest that the game wasn’t as superior as people want to suggest?
I mean, I can still play games that haven’t seen development for 10 years without much trouble, but apparently you guys, who want GW2 to be GW1 was better graphics, can’t play GW1 due to it not having active development.So people are supposed to enjoy the same content forever? They’re not supposed to want more because they actually enjoy the setting. A game’s quality isn’t invalidated because people want new content in it – if anything it speaks to the quality and legacy of the existing content that they want it in the same flavour. It’s nice that you can still play a game and not expect or want new content. Some of us actually wanted Guild Wars 1 to continue. At least its additions were permanent. At least we can revisit those additions at anytime.
Enjoying the same content for a year and a half with GW2 is different somehow from enjoying the content on GW1 for extended periods of time?
It’s not like they have added anything tangible to the game permanently, in all aspects the game really has changed very little since release.
I still go back and play EQ all the time. Same zones. Same alts. Same everything, for 14 years. I haven’t seen the past 4 expansions worth of raids, because I’m still in the old content. Just because a game is no longer developing new content does not mean the old is automatically no fun anymore.
Either way, I feel like GW1 development should of continued till they shut down the servers. It makes no sense to not touch the game at all.
It was certainly a sad moment when they stopped development on GW1. There’s so much there to expand upon. I would have love to have seen Utopia, rather than what it’s been morphed into in GW2.
In regards to time time, A year and a half is one thing – it’s still a young game, even if they are far overdue for an expansion. GW1 hasn’t seen anything since 2008. Even Everquest 1 gets updates, GW1 has been abandoned and during its prime.
I think people are upset that GW1 did stop development and their hopes didn’t transfer. At least with the Everquest series both games are still developed and worked on.
This.
So GW1 wasn’t actually good enough to stand on its own then, and lost the appeal when they no longer developed new stuff for it?
Wouldn’t that suggest that the game wasn’t as superior as people want to suggest?
I mean, I can still play games that haven’t seen development for 10 years without much trouble, but apparently you guys, who want GW2 to be GW1 was better graphics, can’t play GW1 due to it not having active development.
So people are supposed to enjoy the same content forever? They’re not supposed to want more because they actually enjoy the setting. A game’s quality isn’t invalidated because people want new content in it – if anything it speaks to the quality and legacy of the existing content that they want it in the same flavour. It’s nice that you can still play a game and not expect or want new content. Some of us actually wanted Guild Wars 1 to continue. At least its additions were permanent. At least we can revisit those additions at anytime.
1. The World. The people who crafted the zones are truly artists and set the bar for me on what an MMO world should look like. I love exploring it and the level scaling helps extend the game’s shelf life past 80.
2. Quality of Life UI – the wallet, the deposit collectibles, all of it is masterfully done.
3. The Guardian. It’s just a fun class, one of my favorites in any game.
4. Jumping puzzles.
5. No monthly fee. I’m happy to buy a game, but I don’t always want to pay to play. I love taking a break and then coming back.
Because it’s antiquated. Since I occasionally have the sentiment you’ve mentioned, I can at least explain where it comes from.
First, I don’t want to play Guild Wars 1 anymore. After sinking 2000+ hours into it, leveling up 8 characters, beating the campaigns a dozen times through, I’m just spent on it. Yet, the ideas the game presented were valuable and should be ensconced in Guild Wars 2 as its ancestor.
1. The skill system in Guild Wars 1 was unrivaled, in my opinion. One could spend hours pouring over the skills and potential synergy between them. There was so much creativity, and the attribute system only enhanced that.
How could Guild Wars 2 address this?
They could first allow more flexibility in the trait system. I can’t see reason why we’re not allowed to adjust are traits up and down – that’s basic functionality. The ability to save gear and skill templates would also be greatly desired. I’d love to see gear function the same way it does in PVP, but that’s pushing it. The skill system in GW2 needs to have the same flexibility seen in GW1 and it falls short of that for me. There’s always this pervasive feeling of restraint among the skills, as if they don’t want a class to be fully sufficient at anything – healing, damage, control. The lack of specialization in this game hinders the variety that was seen in the first game.
2. The trinity. I really believe that ArenaNet threw the baby out with bathwater by removing the trinity ( and questing, but that’s a whole ’nother topic). I loved healing, on both my Ritualist and Monk. I had hoped the Monk to carry over, but it was reincarnated as the Guardian. They could have done a lot with the classes by allowing full on healing – the Guardian, the Elementalist, and the Necromancer all naturally lend themselves to healing.
How could Guild Wars 2 address this?
They need to allow specialization, remove the restraints, and allow characters to actually play the way they want. All of the classes at this point are so close to each other that there is lack of coordination, leaving the game feeling chaotic or zergy during group content.
3. Quests and Missions.
Call me old fashioned, but I love quests. The way the original game presented them was fantastic, and you got to experience the lore more vividly. The profession each had their own classes, and I loved how the ascension worked. It really pulled me in. The missions were great for groups as well, they’re far superior to the inconsequential personal story.
How could Guild Wars 2 address this?
Allow quests and mission to flesh out storylines, particular the heavy hitters of lore. The factions in particular could benefit from mission arcs and daily quests, player could even work towards a dwelling in the base of their faction. There could be research quests by the Pact or minigames in the cities. There needs to be more concrete gameplay than Hearts. It’s not enough.
Sounds good! I’ll send you a message when I’m in game next. Thanks!
Hey there! So I’ve come back to the game after a few months absence and I find that my old guild is all but inactive. This leaves me looking for a new home and I’m excited to meet some new people.
So what can I offer? I’m a pretty experienced Guardian, in terms of dungeons and playstyle. I typically play a tank/support hybrid on him – I’ve got Dungeon Master and Master Crafter on him. I’m happy to help clear zones, run dungeons, and I’ve been itching to try fractals with a good group. I also have a max level ranger, and an Ele and Warrior north of 60.
What am I looking for? I’d like to be a part of a structured, yet friendly guild that’s pretty fairly sized. I prefer the guild to be PVE focused, as PVP doesn’t really interest me. I’m looking for a friendly, non-politically group that loves experiencing and exploring the game. Vent or Mumble is a must.
I’m kinda hoping for a bilingual German/English guild so I can relearn my Deutsch, but that’s not required.
Good job anet its definitely a deserved award. Im so glad they could give gw2 its props without even mentioning wow. The naysayers get over it. Its over with and no mmo out nor that will come out next year will be able to compete with the sheer level of injected content at the pace they manage to keep up with. Wildstar. Teso. They wont be able to keep up. Anet has a gold star that wont be beaten for a long time.
Too bad quantity =/= quality. As long as Wildstar and TESO don’t follow Anet’s method of delivering ‘content’ then they have nothing to worry about.
Amen. By all things I’ve seen, Wildstar can justify its subscription. They have the content, they have the polish – the things that have been missing from a lot of recent MMOs. TESO doesn’t seem to be well received even now – to many it’s the game no one asked for. The problem isn’t the business model, it’s the game themselves.
First, I found SAB to be one of the best updates of the game, next to the Flame and Frost dungeon.
As Living Story rolls, we’re left with either missed dungeons/events or being forced through fractals to experience those events. There’s quite a few players that don’t want to do Fractals, but want to be able to experience the content. This is where Super Adventure Box comes in – it could be configured to allow players to simulate those activites. Essentially, it can become a dungeon generator. There could be several modes:
Simulation Mode: Experience new SAB content as traditionally seen before
Research Mode: Experience all dungeons and previous living story content
Creative Mode: Give players the chance to create their own dungeons and content and share with others in the SAB module.
I’d love to know how they think Living World is successful when the players are resounding in their dissatisfaction. Can you explain that ArenaNet? Can you please explain why you feel this direction is right when the forums are echoing cries for something different?
I’d be surprised if it was any less than 85% of the player base that would vastly prefer to see large scale content like new zones and dungeons over gimmicky monthly events and mini-stories.
Frankly they’ve wasted a lot of time year one, let’s hope they’re getting their act together.
And I am surprised that some people still seems to prefer getting content once every six months that can be completed in less than a month instead of content every two weeks.
I’d rather have that content and have it be meaningful than have content which can be beat in 5 hours.
We feel like our fractals dungeon is the perfect fit for this kind of “historical” experience, similar to the way the BMP worked in Gw1. Even better, it already exists and has explanations behind why these slices of time are available to discover and experience within.
In the future, you’ll see certain types of content that was part of larger story experiences be updated to work within the fractals dungeon and return there where it makes sense to do so. Of course, the specific rewards and achievements will not return since those are intended to be completed as the story unfolds, but the content itself will be used to expand out our fractals experience and serve as a place to continue to experience great (and strange) moments in history.
You’re missing the point. Fractals aren’t for everyone, and that should be apparent. There needs to a neutral medium to experience the historical events, and it needs to be easily accessible.
Why is it so hard to have a dungeon finder? Why is it so hard to make this game a bit clearer and straightforward? That’s all that’s needed here. I don’t get ArenaNet’s insistence on being different past the point of practicality.
(edited by Destai.9603)
Oh thank God. I was worried there for a second!
You mean a raid? Like real MMORPGs have? What…
Agreed. While I like open world bosses, it’d be nice to have something larger groups could do, uninterrupted.
You’re hitting the nail right on the head and even though they’ve stated they’ve heard it, I don’t believe that. I will believe it when I see new content stay in the game.
I think the problem with the “tidbits” is the pacing and temporariness. And that they’re a bit too subtle in cases (made worse with the temporariness).
Things need to be in the game longer, especially the more subtle things. And things happen with too much in too little time. You basically give us 10-20 achievements to do, on top of the story itself, which again is on top of the “subtle tidbits” – which in turn is on top of the mini-games you introduce each month (sometimes more than one), and effectively give us only two weeks to do all of that.
The hardcore players will end up skipping over those tidbits. The casual players won’t have the chance to get at them because they’re too busy doing the more obviously-to-do things.
I cannot think of any system that can explain it, other than you telling us everything and not giving us a chance to find it out for ourselves. Like those guides you post for the content, before the content’s even released.
Understood. I am hopeful that some of the new systems that we have in development (the LW tracking system, journal tracking, etc.) will make it easier for folks to make sense of the long-term story.
I think the biggest challenge for the writers right now is getting enough story into each release such that people can understand where we’re going with everything. The fact of the matter is that we have a short amount of time to write, voice, and implement the content for each LW release (3 months on average up to maybe 4 months under ideal conditions). We also have limits in how much written and voiced content we can handle each month (text and VO budgets, essentially) due to limited resources (i.e. people) and a fixed deadline.
The LW story pacing is very slow in that it takes months for all the pieces to come together, whereas in the core game everything is available at once and you simply play through it in the proper order until you reach the conclusion. You consume it at your own pace. In the LW, you consume it at ours and I think that’s hard for many people to get used to, especially since we don’t have the right tracking system in place yet.
You’re right in that the temporary nature of the previous content also made it hard to experience at a comfortable pace. Some people raced through the content in an hour or two and then complained that the update wasn’t big enough. Others didn’t know where to go or what to do first. Some people missed it completely and lost out on a piece of the story that they can’t experience unless we bring it back or give them a mechanism to play it outside of the release window.
I’m happy to say that these comments haven’t fallen on deaf ears. I’ve been in many meetings about these very concerns. We have some solutions planned, but they will take time to build. I can’t be more specific than that.
I don’t expect you or anyone else to change your opinions based on this information. You’ll just have to wait and see what happens. If these new story bits and features improve the game for you, then I’ll be happy that we’re making the game better for everyone. If they don’t, then I’d like to know why so we can figure out ways to improve.
Everything you’re saying really punctuates the downside to the two week release approach. It’s so evident that you need to slow down and let people experience the game, while giving yourselves sometime to develop some meaningful content. The shallowness of the content and the discontentment over its temporal nature need not be reiterated. I’m not sure who is in charge of these things from your end, but they must realize they’re missing the mark here. By your words alone, that should be telling that it needs to slow down. Please hammer this point home to whoever needs it. Please rally support at ArenaNet to get things slowed down. Combining your sentiment with the fact that we STILL don’t have new permanent content should be a sign to the powers that be. Something needs to change. I’m glad at least you acknowledge that.
I created mine because it spoke to me. The playstyle, the skills, the overall feel of the class – it encompassed everything I wanted in a character. Then I played beta – I was sold. So far I’ve got 350+ hours into him and can’t stop playing him.
Will SAB actually stay in the game this time?
in Super Adventure Box: Back to School
Posted by: Destai.9603
Other than its reminder of gaming generations gone by, I think it offers a great end game experience. It may seem out of place, but it adds a nice touch of levity to the game. I’d take SAB over Living Story any day.
The innovation seen in GW2 is the successful integration and improvement of existing ideas. Of course, the ideas of jumping puzzles, open world events, and action combat aren’t new.
Agreed.
But, they’ve added a very graceful combat system and use it as a benchmark for some many ideas in the game, such as siege weapons and environmental weapons. The game satisfies, or at least attempts to, several different playstyles. It rewards exploration, it rewards cooperation, it provides competitive areas, and it has a pretty flexible trait system.
Not agreed so much.
It’s a matter of opinion but I do not think the combat system is very graceful and I don’t consider the trait system that flexible. I often find that a trait line combines the wrong stat bonuses and don’t always jive with the weapon selection either. In essence they took away freedoms by deciding how you should play certain classes.
I often find myself cursing when leveling a character because I need a certain trait line for one thing that is essential but the rest of it I don’t want at all or a trait line that makes sense mostly has a stat boost that I don’t need etc.
Somehow, the way the skill bar, weapon choice and trait system interact makes it feel like a rather rigid and limiting experience to me.
Fair enough. I doubt I’d say that if I started with a different class. For me, the Guardian felt so natural and well put together; it set the bar for my combat expectations in many other games. Had I started with the ranger, my second character, I may have disagreed. Yet, in comparison to say a game like Rift or even WoW, it’s more natural. Of course, it can easily be improved. Aside from traits – which stand to have a lot of work done – the combat itself is pretty responsive. Cast times are minimal, skills are responsive, and most are tactile – offering some feeling response. The problem I see is that traits forget once principle – a class should be fun from the start, not starting at 40, 50, or max level. Some professions in this game still struggle under that.
The innovation seen in GW2 is the successful integration and improvement of existing ideas. Of course, the ideas of jumping puzzles, open world events, and action combat aren’t new. But, they’ve added a very graceful combat system and use it as a benchmark for some many ideas in the game, such as siege weapons and environmental weapons. The game satisfies, or at least attempts to, several different playstyles. It rewards exploration, it rewards cooperation, it provides competitive areas, and it has a pretty flexible trait system.
Of course, there are areas where it can improve. Crafting could be more meaningful, which is being looked at, along with the trait system. However, the core of the gameplay feels so much more fresh than its peers.
Pretty much everything but heroes and the lack of a z-axis.
Will SAB actually stay in the game this time?
in Super Adventure Box: Back to School
Posted by: Destai.9603
Please, it’s well loved…
The gods were not aware of their location. There’s a difference. (Yes, I’m not denying the possibility of them not knowing of the dragons at all, but that one line from Randall – who’s starting to go nuts by that point – isn’t to convey the Six were ignorant of the ED.) Even if it sounds a bit stupid that the elder races found no trace of the dragons after they’d returned from hiding (Kralkatorrik was half-visible… >.>), it is still the case. If the races didn’t know – including the gods’ most loyal allies, the Forgotten – why should’ve they know? Especially when they came after the end of the previous dragon war.
Personally, I think their departure has more to do with the real reason for Abaddon’s betrayal and the threat that might be harrowing them through the Mists. They might’ve left so humanity and Tyria’s other inhabitants wouldn’t be wiped out by the thing that’d forced them to flee with the human race in the first place.
And to be honest, I’m not so sure the gods would be done for if they met an ED face to face. For instance, Balthazar could kill one without using much magic: decapitating/eviscerating the beastie with his flaming greatsword. Certainly, such battles could ravage huge swaths of land and the risks are definitely tremendous (gods blowing up/getting corrupted into a dragon’s servitude), it’s not impossible they could win one-on-one.
What do you mean by the real reason for Abaddon’s betrayal? Can you elaborate?
I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.
Can you list the features that you think we’re expecting? Will Living Story add new races, new classes, zones, entire new personal campaigns? The track record isn’t that bright so far.
You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.
Well, time to start grinding laurels.
Sad to say, but the game would have been better off if they had been more like other studios, only pushing holidays and a few new dungeons as live content, while devoting the vast majority of development resources on an expansion.
The game world is so vast and the potential for an evolution of content via progression of Dynamic Events so great, that maybe the best model for this game would have been twice yearly expansions that only offered an additional zone or two, with most of the expansion focused on changing the existing game world.
LS has been a huge waste of resources, IMO and as we near the 1 year mark, I really hope they will just recycle what makes sense during year two and otherwise abandon LS entirely.
I agree, entirely. I feel like ArenaNet is trying to be too different, almost to a fault. There’s an established culture of what MMO updates should be and I don’t feel like they’re adhering to that. People are expecting new zones or instances to play around with. Thus far, they’ve only said they’re adding permanent content going forward. I’d like to know when we’ll start seeing that. I’d appreciate if they’d at least say what type of content they’re releasing. It’d stem the tide of doubt so many of us are experiencing. It’s a shame to have such a beautiful game crafted by such talented artists that goes to waste.
Absolutely. I asked myself two questions about, “Would I play the game if it were only LS content?” and “Would I play the game if it were only vanilla style content?”. The first one is a “no” and the second is a “yes”. I’m not sure what value this content adds, some of it has been interesting and is a good weekend’s worth of content.
The problem I’m having, and could be entirely personal taste, is that the game doesn’t feel like an MMO to me. There are just certain features that are lacking, which I’ve experienced in almost every other MMO I’ve played. The way they release content doesn’t feel like an MMO release, to me. I’m still scratching my head on what the game’s direction is shaping to be.
By any means the most annoying and infuriating “feature” of GW2 is the asinine reasons why one must slow down to 50% speed when being attacked by NPC.
There is no logic to this besides the devs wanting the person to be forced to fight as fleeing would be annoying. It is a bad mechanic that other mmos as well use. It makes no sense and it is really annoying especially in a group when you are the only person hit with an attack an you slow down while everybody runs away with speed buffs.
Get rid of this
Yeah, I’m completely with you on this one. No logical reason to use it.
This content and all other temporary content is optional………….. There is still the rest of the game. If you don’t want to put in the time , you won’t get the rewards. This is by far the best update they have released. Seems like every update that is tied to LS keeps on improving.
Also if you don’t like the whole Living Story concept , then just don’t participate in them. There are many players out there that don’t give two craps about LS, at least they don’t come on the forums and cry about it.
The problem is that those who don’t have nothing new to play.
Tyria is huge and since you can’t out level a zone all of it is always available to play in. I almost guarantee that there is some event somewhere that you’ve never seen before and didn’t realize existed. If you don’t like LS, go find that event. Go play in zones you don’t typically spend time in. Go play the game.
If you’re not interested in playing the game, then why exactly are you?
Furthermore, I’m doing that and that adds some depth. But what about alts? I have two 80s, and two characters I’m leveling. Those leveling experiences are hardly going to be different than the previous. There’s not enough zones. There’s not enough dungeons. There were when the game launched, but they need to add more.
I’m hopeful something interesting will be added by the end of the year, given their latest blog regarding it.
This content and all other temporary content is optional………….. There is still the rest of the game. If you don’t want to put in the time , you won’t get the rewards. This is by far the best update they have released. Seems like every update that is tied to LS keeps on improving.
Also if you don’t like the whole Living Story concept , then just don’t participate in them. There are many players out there that don’t give two craps about LS, at least they don’t come on the forums and cry about it.
The problem is that those who don’t have nothing new to play.
Tyria is huge and since you can’t out level a zone all of it is always available to play in. I almost guarantee that there is some event somewhere that you’ve never seen before and didn’t realize existed. If you don’t like LS, go find that event. Go play in zones you don’t typically spend time in. Go play the game.
If you’re not interested in playing the game, then why exactly are you?
I am interested in playing the game. I do enjoy the existing content – that’s why I want more of it. Not some b.s. living story achievement merry-go-round. They had the right idea when the game was in beta. They had the right idea when the game launched. I’d even say they have the right with Ascended Items. The Living Story direction is ruining the game for myself and probably others. Eventually those 25 zones and their content will get boring. Eventually, I want to explore new zones. Eventually, I want to experience new dungeons. They talk about strengthening the core gameplay – I fail to see how. Oh wow, I get to go click on signs. That’s fun. That lets me use my skills that spent 80 levels acquiring.
If the living story were the entire game, would you still play it?
This content and all other temporary content is optional………….. There is still the rest of the game. If you don’t want to put in the time , you won’t get the rewards. This is by far the best update they have released. Seems like every update that is tied to LS keeps on improving.
Also if you don’t like the whole Living Story concept , then just don’t participate in them. There are many players out there that don’t give two craps about LS, at least they don’t come on the forums and cry about it.
The problem is that those who don’t have nothing new to play.
Thanks for the feedback everyone and please keep it coming. Personally, I find that one of the hardest parts of being a desginer on GW2 Live is coming to terms with the fact that not every update will please every player. We do our best to deliver appealing content with enough variety to keep as many people as satisfied as possible. And If there’s one thing we can do consistently, it’s improving the experience of said content each time. I think we made some great strides with the Jubilee. I think we have a lot of room to keep growing. But our team isn’t done yet. We’ve got some exciting things coming later this month. Things you’ve never seen in this game before.
But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking. We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative. Despite this, there are many events I would still like to add. Many zones and bosses I would love to revisit. As we get better at the living world, I strongly suspect we’ll have room to get around to them as well. Assuming that’s what our players really want. You are all the second half of the collaborative process, so thanks for helping!
I appreciate you sharing your feelings on the matter. First, addressing your statements about the content met with little interest – did you tell us about it? Did you advertise it or did you advertise the next achievement chase instead? The priorities here are misaligned. Week after week, a release is doled out and we’re expected to chase after a set of achievements. There are so many problems with the current approach in GW2:
I don’t want content every two weeks. I don’t want to rush through it and eschew my long term goals. Making long term, permanent content should be the first goal of the content delivery. This will keep players entertained and keep them buying things. If you’re going to release Living Story content, do it once a month. If there’s a dungeon or something incredibly well received, leave it in the game. Tell us the Asuras have found a way to preserve those memories or events – something, whatever lore you have to stretch. When you look at other games, especially WoW, LoTRO, and Rift, there’s a wealth of content that is legacy content, yet it fills the gaps.
To further discuss the topic of disinterest. Ask yourself, why should I care about this content? There is a decided lack of incentives to explore the world once you’ve leveled one character. Living Story should address this. Living Story should slow down on the releases and expand the regional stories. I don’t care about achievements. I care about using the skills my character has with other players.
There is no personal character development in the Living Story. We’re chasing the shadow of someone else. That’s cool for a while – but one of your main selling points was the Personal Story. That’s all been forgotten about it, seemingly. Furthermore, as I mentioned before my skills are not used in the Living Story – at least not to the extent that they’d be used in Orr or WvW. That’s not fun.
Mini-games add to culture, but the game’s culture needs to rest around its core systems. I love mini-games, they’re a nice break from dungeons, pvping, and otherwise combat driven activities. However, they cannot take the place of core gameplay – dynamic combat, open world bosses, and dungeons. Chasing achievements does not leave a lasting legacy on the game and should not be the primary focus.
The mystery isn’t necessary. Throw out some ideas to players, get our feedback. I know you’re trying to temper expectations, but it’s painfully evident that ArenaNet is unsure of themselves. There are so many philosophical hindrances to implementing standard MMO features. Just because something has been done before, doesn’t make it bad. That doesn’t mean you should not do it or throw it away. Case in point – raids. I’m sure many of us would love to play with more than 5 people in an instance. Yet we’re told that doens’t fit into the game philosophy. When looking at what content to implement, look at what a lot of players already love. I’m a PVEer, so I love the Orr events, the Dungeons, open world bosses. Give us a open world boss with multiple boss fights or waves, give us a 10-man, 2 team dungeon. Look at what players spend their time doing and what their long term goals rest around and you’ll know the direction you should go.