The thing is, we’re all being treated like we have paid the bare minimum for all this, over the last 3 years.
But, some of us haven’t.
Oh I haven’t been playing for 3 years. I’ve been playing off and on for since late January. Seriously try explaining to vets how expensive things are now, and you will get no sympathy. Like dyes? Some of them are 10 to 20 times more expensive than they were when people started 3 years ago. And people just tell me, well don’t buy it. So I don’t get to look cool? Like you? Because I started later? Or how about gold to gem conversions? Also very pricey. Runes? Good ones are expensive and I can’t really go out and farm the materials for them. Some of them I can’t even make because the recipes only existed in certain events.
I have grinded my butt off to get what I have, I have converted over 1500g, 400g worth of dyes and the entire collection of dyes costs 6900, and thrown about 70 dollars at the game(no expansion yet.) And I still feel like I’m behind. I haven’t bothered crafting ascended gear because it costs as much or nearly a precursor at this point. Not very fun.
“and thrown about 70 dollars at the game” Don’t blame Anet for a system YOU created.
Your complains are valid, however you are one of the persons creating this system.
No, they didn’t.
The “system” was already in place and they just utilised it.
How long do you think this game, really, would have existed, if absolutely no one had ever bought anything from the gemstore (or wherever) for real money?
I know they called it “B2P”, but it blatantly was never actually just that.
Otherwise, why on earth can we buy gems and either use them in the gemstore, or convert them to gold?
In a sub game, like Wow, you might have a point; but this is not and has never been a sub game.
Yes they did. At launch that system was not as extensive as it is now.. also you have to look at my comment on a wider area. People making companies earn money with this sort of bad behavior (for a few years now) make companies put in such systems. It’s that simple.
When a lot of those people doing this, would not, then Anet had to change it / would not have expanded on it.
You spend cash then you make this system. Then they come, complain and leave.. Leaving us with their mess. Probably going to do exactly the same on another game.
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“I know they called it “B2P”, but it blatantly was never actually just that.”
The first half year it was, and on other elements it behaves as a B2P game like asking €50,- for an expansion. That is reasonable for a B2P game, but not for a Cash-shop game.
Also their promotions always mentioned how they have no sub-fee as if that is something special. As if that by itself makes it a special model they use. Most MMORPG have no sub fee these days. Now GW1 was indeed using a special model.. it was using B2P and if with “we have no sub fee” they mean “we are B2P” that would make sense. Also on the last big public appearance, Mike was having a speech about how great B2P is.
So yes, in many ways they behave as a B2P, but then they also have this focus on the cash-shop that makes it more a cash-shop game, and 1 expansion after 3 years is not going to fund a MMORPG, then you need an expansion once a year / 1,5 year. So it’s like they try to have the benefits of both.. what for players means they have the negatives of both.
“In a sub game, like Wow, you might have a point; but this is not and has never been a sub game.”
No.. if they had been known, and sold the game as a cash-shop game, I did not have a point.
If it would be a sub I would have a point and now that they do focus so much on B2P I do have a point.
The thing is, we’re all being treated like we have paid the bare minimum for all this, over the last 3 years.
But, some of us haven’t.
Oh I haven’t been playing for 3 years. I’ve been playing off and on for since late January. Seriously try explaining to vets how expensive things are now, and you will get no sympathy. Like dyes? Some of them are 10 to 20 times more expensive than they were when people started 3 years ago. And people just tell me, well don’t buy it. So I don’t get to look cool? Like you? Because I started later? Or how about gold to gem conversions? Also very pricey. Runes? Good ones are expensive and I can’t really go out and farm the materials for them. Some of them I can’t even make because the recipes only existed in certain events.
I have grinded my butt off to get what I have, I have converted over 1500g, 400g worth of dyes and the entire collection of dyes costs 6900, and thrown about 70 dollars at the game(no expansion yet.) And I still feel like I’m behind. I haven’t bothered crafting ascended gear because it costs as much or nearly a precursor at this point. Not very fun.
“and thrown about 70 dollars at the game” Don’t blame Anet for a system YOU created.
Your complains are valid, however you are one of the persons creating this system.
Requirements proportionate to guild size won’t work. Find another solution
Fine, you will not like it, but it will still work:
- all contribution to guild hall is tied to the player account. This means every time you put materials into upgrades your account gets “guild points” (based on their value in TP). This value is visible to all guild members
- players may be part of many guilds but their GP only apply to one guild (you can pick which one)
- if player leaves the guild, all his GP is reduced from overall guild upgrade points. In case of important member of smaller guild, a lot of guild upgrades may be lost. It wont be 100% of your contributed materials, but high enough, lets say 90%
- if new player joins the guild (or assigns the GP to current guild), these GP can be used instead of upgrade materials to pay for guild upgrades
- number of maximum guild members is equal to the guild level. Level 2 guild can only have 2 members, and those 2 need to pay for enough upgrades to reach level 3 before they can add another member. Level 20 guild can have 20 members, level 40 guild 40 members. After reaching maximum upgrades, guild can continue to raise its level to increase number of members (each extra member slot will cost more materials/GP)
The benefits compared to current system:
- guilds will grow naturally
- instead of throwing materials away into endless hole, everyone is raising their account value when contributing to guild upgrades
- people can easily switch guilds, start new guilds, merge or split guilds
- guild size and guild level are now same thing
You get guild points in the form of commendations what is more accessible to all players, not only those who prefer a game-play that gets them a lot of mats.
And how about those donating mats to people who have the required craft to make the materials a guild needs?
Not to mention that guilds might now want to keep old guild members who donated a lot but have left the game, in the guild because else they lose points.
Also you keep the problem that guilds might now be pushed to kick people who don’t donate a lot.. While that might not be a problem by itself because they might contribute to a guild in other ways. But that then suddenly does not have any value anymore.. It’s all about getting the mats.
Lastly I don’t see how this makes a difference for small guilds vs big ones when comparing it to the current system.
By far most of them had a system in place that allowed even small guilds to progress, with requirements proportionate to their size.
Requirements proportionate to guild size won’t work. Find another solution
It worked just fine in other games. I don’t really see the problem. If games 10+ years old managed, GW2 should be able to do the same. Exploiting the system could be easily prevented too… grow too fast after completing upgrades? Tsk, your upgrades just went unavailable till you pay the surplus due.
The end goal should not be a grindfest, it should be something that comes naturally as the guild does things together. And I’m not talking guild missions, though those could still be used to gain bonuses for your guild’s growth. People who e.g. prefer to just explore, do story missions or craft should still be able to contribute.
Honestly, they should never have done away with the influence system. The new system is a huge slap in the face for ‘play how you want to play’.
“People who e.g. prefer to just explore, do story missions or craft should still be able to contribute.”
Like it was you mean? Well that did not create much of a community feeling. Sure I would have liked it much better that when instead of requiring mats, it would require tasks (I hope we still get that for decorations). Want to build WVW, claim a camp, then a tower, then a keep, then SM. Want some PvE upgrade defeat Teq as a guild-spawn. While that would likely be a bigger problem for smaller guilds than this mats grind.
In fact, that might be the reason we have mats instead of such tasks, to have a method also smaller guilds can do.
@Celtic Lady
" Upgrades for a guild should be based on percentages that directly relate to a guild’s size or activity level. " – kick everyone from your guild, leave only ~6 players > upgrade your guild > invite players you’ve kicked.
Influence was the best system. It’s so sad that ANet chose guilds for their gold sink.I tend to think this wouldn’t happen nearly to the degree people say it will. The logistical nightmare of getting hundreds of people back into your guild once you’ve kicked them for any length of time is fairly prohibitive. Besides, suggestions have already been made to make this less likely to happen.
logistical nightmare? Donate the required mats (for a 6 man guild) on the guild-bank. Make an alt guild and invite everybody there. Kick everybody from main guild. Do the upgrades, invite them back.
Not that it matters. Having to pay more for exactly the same thing is extremely unfair.
In addition to that bigger guilds usually also have a higher percentage less active members (and with less active I also mean, those less willing to donate, not just those online less). So now guilds would be forced to kick members who do not donate enough.
No, this system of mats bases on members is unfair and hard to balance right.
In my honest opinion smaller guilds just have to focus on elements of the hall. Just focus on getting everything to tier 1, or getting one element maxed out. And expect to do that in the same amount of time that it takes bigger guilds to max out the complete hall (so 6 to 9 months according to Anet.. While I have my doubts about that).
And so larger guild leaders should.. you wanna become a group of numbers then that’s up to you to recruit properly and managed it effectively/efficiently.
No one forced those guilds to become weighted down with inactives and spongers.. so absolutely they should be booted.
Do you take employment so you can either stay at home and do nothing or venture into work but do nothing all day long yet at the same time expect to be rewarded just cos you signed the job acceptance forms??… no you would be handed your exit papers in a heart beat cos no one likes to support dead weights no matter what…. that’s a responsibility that comes with running something whether in a game guild or RL.
Sure there are always a few exceptions to that for genuine reasons but if they are online and not contributing.. then its boot time!Using a large guilds inability to organise themselves and get every player to contribute is no excuse when comparing the imbalance that has been handed to small guilds, where the time and efforts just to get back to where they were pre HoT is insanely out of sync if not near impossible for some… and those new players wanting to start guilds.. . enjoyable New Player Experience my backside.
Well for example, we are an international PvX guild, we want all types of players. Yeah we ask all members to donate and help along if they can, but we don’t kick somebody because they might have a play-style that does mean they simply are not able to donate a lot. He might be very helpful in other ways, like helping people with JP’s or organizing events or making sure we also have activity on times most people are offline, might be active in chat or on TS and so on.
Not all game-styles earn you a lot of materials, but that does not mean those people are not a good addition to the guild.
That’s is exactly the same in a company. You still might want security while when looking at the revenue they generate it is 0.
So no.. larger guild leaders should not (depending on the type of guild).
“Using a large guilds inability to organise themselves and get every player to contribute is no excuse when comparing the imbalance that has been handed to small guilds,” What imbalance. If we take the company example here. Bigger companies, with more employees that make more money also tent to have bigger offices with better / more advanced tools. As small guild you simply have to focus on elements.
Balancing everything around the weakest link is a really bad idea. Sure then everybody can do everything, but it would also result in extremely boring content.
I had one Ascended weapon box, but it was Rabbid what was useless for me (See why I dislike this part of MMO’s).
You can change the stats in the mystic forge.
You can Google how to do it.
Problem is, it costs gold and you lose all upgrades in the process, but it’s alright for a one time thing.
But, in general, I agree with you.
I know I can, but like you say, it cost gold.. just as everything. And because everything cost gold (And I’m not a grinder) I never have gold. So then I can better wait until I somehow get the weapon with the stats I need.
@Celtic Lady
" Upgrades for a guild should be based on percentages that directly relate to a guild’s size or activity level. " – kick everyone from your guild, leave only ~6 players > upgrade your guild > invite players you’ve kicked.
Influence was the best system. It’s so sad that ANet chose guilds for their gold sink.I tend to think this wouldn’t happen nearly to the degree people say it will. The logistical nightmare of getting hundreds of people back into your guild once you’ve kicked them for any length of time is fairly prohibitive. Besides, suggestions have already been made to make this less likely to happen.
logistical nightmare? Donate the required mats (for a 6 man guild) on the guild-bank. Make an alt guild and invite everybody there. Kick everybody from main guild. Do the upgrades, invite them back.
Not that it matters. Having to pay more for exactly the same thing is extremely unfair.
In addition to that bigger guilds usually also have a higher percentage less active members (and with less active I also mean, those less willing to donate, not just those online less). So now guilds would be forced to kick members who do not donate enough.
No, this system of mats bases on members is unfair and hard to balance right.
In my honest opinion smaller guilds just have to focus on elements of the hall. Just focus on getting everything to tier 1, or getting one element maxed out. And expect to do that in the same amount of time that it takes bigger guilds to max out the complete hall (so 6 to 9 months according to Anet.. While I have my doubts about that).
“A crafting profession is one that any player can pick up and within a few days or a few weeks, make their way to the max.”
Well it’s true that normally any player can pick up a craft, but they stated form the beginning scribing was really build around guilds. So I do not see that as a problem.
The ability to level it fast is also not a requirement imho. If I look to WoW, I did a very long over leveling the engineering craft and that was basically my road to max level.
I don’t know the future required mats, but things like Oil you can get by farming seeds. Now those seeds go to the Guild-Hall itself but once the hall it completed you can use the seeds for crafting. The only real expensive part is the gold you have to pay for things like a basic chair. 50 silver.. That is a lot considering you do not need 1 chair but more like 60, and 15 tables, and..
But overall I don’t think that (eventually) you don’t need the complete guild to pay to level a scriber. They might have to pay to get the decorations.
Overall I like the new Guild-Hall system. The only change I would like to see for smaller guilds, is lowering the required guild level for upgrades. So a smaller guild can focus on PvP or WvW or scribing (decorations) or.. That is now impossible because by only doing all available WvW upgrades you will run into a problem where you can’t do upgrades because your guild-level is to low.
People donating and working together on a hall also creates more of a community, it bounds people more to a guild. Something that was missing.
(edited by Devata.6589)
About the raids and ascended requirement. Basically ArenaNet made a problem for themselves here back when they introduced Ascended.
Personally I think it’s great that Raids are designed around ascended gear. They have to. Designing them around Exotic would mean they would become too easy with ascended and that would remove what raids are all about.
On the other hand I hate it. Anet clearly stated Ascended gear would only be required for the highest level fractals. Because of this I never got into Ascended gear, heck I don’t even have any of the crafts at level 400 (because until the addition of Scribing I did not like the crafts available in GW2).
If there is one element in an MMORPG that I dislike, it’s the builds. So when Anet said I don’t have to bother with ascended gear I didn’t. I got two rings and that was it. Yesterday (because of the raids) I got myself the other accessories. I had one Ascended weapon box, but it was Rabbid what was useless for me (See why I dislike this part of MMO’s).
So because of this my build is not yet great for raids. Usually not a problem, I manage to do any content, don’t go down much and do decent damage. But with Raids, especially because there is a time-limited the additional stats are very much appreciated.
And then of course as a Ranger you basically need a healing set (for when using the druid), a berserker (for when going DPS) and a condition set to be really useful in raids.
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About scribing, I think prizes for it will start becoming more acceptable when most guilds are done with the guild-hall. Also most mats are attainable in-game. Oil now seems expensive, but farming for it is not a big issue. Only now you donate all those seeds to the guild. (Maybe there will be also recipes that require mats that are not as easy to get like Charged Lodestones or globs of ectoplasm, but we will see)
The only element that is really bad there is that for many of the items you have to buy something (like a simple chair) that requires gold. Because for some reason, Anet wants you to always spend gold. Well that some reason is likely because they sell gold.
But that just makes it more of a gold grind, what has always been the major issue with GW2 in the first place.
Other than that I don’t think there is anything wrong with the scribing craft itself. Sure, that you need to scribe things for WvW (and other unlocks) instead of getting it with Atherium is bad. But the craft itself is great, the first fun craft in GW2. Been waiting for that since launch.
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Lastly about Anet doing this to sell gold. Well that has been a problem also with GW2, only now it might hit another group of people. Before it hit those who liked chasing fun items (skins, mini’s and so on). You basically could buy them with cash or grind gold for it. One it not a game-play element, and the other is a boring. When people complained about it, you got other players saying they should not complain because skins where optional. As if that matters, the game in total is optional.
Anyway, now it looks like it hurts some more people. I had not notice that myself yet, but reading the comments here it seems like it does.
The biggest issue with that is that GW2 was supposed to be a B2P game, the model that made GW1 big, and by doing so made GW2 what it is. At the last big announcement about HoT, Mike had a big speech about how great B2P was so one would hope with HoT, GW2 would move back towards that again. It also seemed to do so the first week (having the Halloween skins ingame, with exception of the wings). But since, they seem to be going back to the cash-shop focus again.
I hope they change that soon. Because they don’t want to scare people away again. Those leaving with the first expansion are not likely to ever come back. So imho they have about 5 more months (as it’s the first half year after an expansion that people slowly start to leave… or not) to fix these grind issues. We will see. It’s a great game, but it also has flaws. Let’s hope it will not be the next game on the list going down (not as in completely dead) because of the cash-shop focus.
(edited by Devata.6589)
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.
Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.
Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.
More examples:
Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.
Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.
If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
If it comes to helping smaller guilds, what they could do is lower the required levels for upgrades. This allows guilds to focus on one part of the guild-hall (like the arena, or the war-room or the workshop. They make a choice what is more important for them and then go for those elements while bigger guilds go for everything.
That is pretty much the only thing I would change, other than that I think Guild-halls are fine for bigger and smaller guilds.
There is also a flaw in the following reasoning.
“specially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.”
Many bigger guilds basically have a strong core of players and those donate a lot.
But many of the other members are less involved, donate less, are less active in chat and so on. While with smaller guilds a higher percentage tents to be strongly involved.
Sure for a 500 man guild that group of core players is still around 30 up towards 60 so not comparable with a small guild of 15 people. However you can also not just make the sum of required mats divided by the number of members. The more members, the less true this is.
I am a huge GW2 fan – I’ve brought many people to the game and have been playing since beta, but the reasons I’ve had to come back to this game between every other MMO are pretty much gone.
I’ve played every major MMO from it’s launch through it’s content at launch. Some games (SWTOR, for instance) I get done with all available content before they’ve even finished the intended starting content, so I leave… and I don’t come back. Ever. Other games take a while longer (like WoW expansions, which I stopped buying after Cataclysm or Rift), but when I left, I left. It was done. Finished. Over. GW2 has been my mainstay since it’s launch and, sadly, it won’t be for much longer due to the fact that I can no longer experience all it’s content without being in a guild. A big guild, at that.
The primary reason I kept coming back to GW2 was that I could see all of it’s content without having to deal with people (I’m always a guild/raid leader in other games and that just wears me down) and still be as relevant as I was when I started a break – sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a couple of months; I knew the same great game would be waiting for me when I came back. And I put a lot of hard-earned cash into this game because I loved it so much and it earned it.
That has changed and this is why:
https://goo.gl/ZXBiva
I made a little spreadsheet of the required materials just for Resotration 1-affiliated builds in the Guild Hall. This isn’t nearly a quarter of the materials needed to get to the actual content like Weaponsmith 2’s, which require completion of nearly all builds in restoration 2 and a guild level of 40.So, basically, not only can my small guild not even claim it’s own Guild Hall with it’s 2 or 3 people (family – pretty much the only people I can stand any more), but we have to get to guild level 40 and get an insane amount of materials – like completely impossible within the expected lifetime of this game (my kids will be through college before I was able to grind out all materials)- in order to fully experience the game.
I’m done.
I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back. Right now, the MMO field is pretty sparse and dry, so I’m good for a while…. But I’m extremely disappointed that my refuge game is now just another game in a pile of grindy games that require I pretend to like other people. I just won’t do it. Unlike some people, I’m not a pretender… I really am incapable of feigning interest any more.
Wait.. just to get this right.. You don’t like GW2 anymore because you cannot get / upgrade a guild-hall without being in a guild and because of that there is nothing to come back to…
While before (when we did not have guild-halls yet) there was stuff to do.
In any MMORPG there are a few things that pretty much require you to be in a guild, that are Raids and Guild Halls.
Also you say you play other MMO’s content and then leave, but honestly then you don’t play an MMORPG as it supposed to be played imho.
Sure that is a way to play an MMORPG but what usually keeps people playing is chasing rewards. Go for that mini, go for those stats, go for that skin. (One element where GW2 is lacking btw, because it does have many of those items but most just require you to grind gold (for a big part because of the cash-shop). Making it feel grindy on the long run. While with many other MMO’s it requires mostly specific content, so it sends you all over the world doing different task).
There is still a lot of things you can do solo, chase rewards (while like I said, that is grindy, but always has been.) So if there is one thing to complain about when you talk about content that keeps you busy as a solo player it should be that those things are too much of grinding gold instead of multiple different interesting challenges.
But the fact that you as a solo player cannot upgrade a guild-hall is not one of them. That is why it’s a guild-hall. It’s not personal housing, it’s a guild-hall. Complaining about not being able to build up a guild-hall without being in a guild is as complaining you are not able to do WvW without going to a WvW map, not being able to do PvP without going to the PvP area or complaining you can’t do a dungeon without going into a dungeon.
“I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back.” The reasons you had before are still there you know. Guild-Halls where an addition to that what was before.
(edited by Devata.6589)
All these threads abut having problem making gold. Since HoT came out I:
- Bought the 3.5k gem pack (the Tron foraging tools, inventory slots and copper salvager).
- Bought the 800 gems Heavy Aether armor (I just wanted the gloves. Pity I didn’t know about the 20% off sale that came afterwards).
- Bought the 560 gems monk outfit (usually at 700 gems).So that’s around… 670 gold or something? I’ll agree if you’re after a precursor it’s peanuts, but that was me just playing HoT, doing the events and exploring the map.
I see many of these comments but do then always wonder what they consider “just playing”. By just playing at best I make 100 gold in 2 weeks, at worse 10 gold. On average something in-between.
Maybe it depends on your preferred game-elements.
‘Just playing’ is:
- Everyday run both flax farms. I have eight levels 80 so it used to net 20+g a day and nowadays around 12g or so. It was a lot of hassle ferrying them across three maps and some of them I have not played in literally years.
– Try for a Tarir and a VB meta each day. More Tarirs aren’t bad. Neither are more VBs. Making an effort to pick the crates floating in the air as well even at the cost of a boss or two.
- Mine everything, forage everything. Even stuff at 20c I was throwing at the TP.An average a day goes between 40 to 50g but I’m burning out. I still want the Crystal Arbiter pack mostly for the immortal skin which means another 372g or so.
Silverwastes might work better but I’m not fond of that map.
“Everyday run both flax farms.” Oke so if it comes to this point, farming to sell to make gold is ‘just playing’.
That explains a lot. I would define that as grinding for gold, not ‘just playing’.
So that means that in a discussion with somebody where he says “You can earn it by just playing” while the other says “You need to grind for everything”, what the one considers ‘grinding for gold’, the other considers ‘Just playing’.
Btw, I also farm the seeds daily, but that goes to the guild.
For your other examples I do also notice at least the idea in the back of your head of.. I should do this because it makes me gold and I should do this because it makes me gold.
Not saying that is a problem, but it does examples the differences in idea about grinding vs just playing.
All these threads abut having problem making gold. Since HoT came out I:
- Bought the 3.5k gem pack (the Tron foraging tools, inventory slots and copper salvager).
- Bought the 800 gems Heavy Aether armor (I just wanted the gloves. Pity I didn’t know about the 20% off sale that came afterwards).
- Bought the 560 gems monk outfit (usually at 700 gems).So that’s around… 670 gold or something? I’ll agree if you’re after a precursor it’s peanuts, but that was me just playing HoT, doing the events and exploring the map.
I see many of these comments but do then always wonder what they consider “just playing”. By just playing at best I make 100 gold in 2 weeks, at worse 10 gold. On average something in-between.
Maybe it depends on your preferred game-elements.
I think you look at it from the wrong perspective. You should not ask where to get gold, but you should ask why so many things require gold.
Even many of the things you craft yourself require at least one item you need to buy with gold (taking away the ability to get all mats from the game and make it that way).
Like you say “Farming the material takes forever.”. that is not true for all mats, but for a large enough number it is… and not only mats. This is true for skins, weapons, toys, mini’s.
If you could do this quest for that mini, kill that mob for some skin, do this dungeon for that weapon, farm these mats to craft that toy and so on.. there would be no problem. The problem is not where to get gold but that you need to get gold.
Your preferred way to get gold might have been dungeon, for some it’s silver waste, for other it where the champ-trains and for other it are farming the world-bosses. As it had a high probability that getting anything you like required to get gold, you were pretty much forced to do any of those. (they usually say.. nah just play the way you want and you earn the money. But unless you liked any of those things, playing the way you want was an unrealistic way to earn the money…. ,maybe for one item but considering there are always other items you also want it just is not a reasonable option).
Of course many interesting items just come to the Gem-Store (so much for B2P) what also does not help as the only game-mechanic to earn those is grinding gold.
So I see your point but maybe you should consider putting the question different. Unless you happened to love grinding x for gold.
I will probably never understand why some people want skins in the gem-store.
When you see such a skin, don’t you think.. Nice, I wonder how to get them (you know, as in, what content will reward them).
What is the fun in buying a skin? I do not buy a game to be able to buy additional skin for in that game. I buy a game to play it. Playing an MMO is for a big part, in fact personally for me the biggest part, hunting down these types of skins in the world.
Like how you could go for Night Fury (minus the fact that there is not real reliable way to get the tonic) or how you could go for the Liadri mini, or how can do the journey to get a legendary (if the required items all have a viable non-grind-gold way to be obtained), or how you can do raid to earn legendary armor. Having it as a gem-store item removes this fun and the value that this adds to a skin. It just becomes something you can buy for money or grind gold for to buy.
Anyway, maybe these skins will be added to the game? Did you think about that? Maybe they are already in the game but a reward from some Raid boos nobody killed yet?
One could only hope it’s something like that and not just another boring non game-play related item.
Not that I do like these specific skins so much, but you get the idea.
I do no watch a lot people gaming (I prefer to play myself) so maybe my opinion here is not a good representation of the status quo.
However, I think also the game-types are important and the sPvP type is just not very fun to watch imho.
Other games I did watch a little on Twitch or Youtube where Landmark and DayZ. Those types of games imho just lent themselves much better to be watched. That said, GW2 does unofficially also have a game-mode that is much more fun to watch and that is GvG.
Maybe they should try to not only look at sPvP if they want to focus on E-sports. I know that are the type game-modes that you see a lot on E-sports, but maybe that is then also the reason that quite some people don’t find E-sports very interesting to begin with.
(edited by Devata.6589)
There is also a bug. The updraft works shorten then it did before. You do still see the updraft animation for the correct period but it does not do anything anymore.
This is annoying because if you see the updraft you expect it to work.
A switch to permanent turn them all on or off, or per pad would indeed also be useful.
However, there might be a other problem making this harder as it seems. The server does not seem to save the statue of objects after an instance has been removed. I notice this with some of the decorations.
There are some of the decorations (Those that come with the Deluxe edition) that I want to always have turned off or always have turned on. However it looks like it does not save this information.
This is something that would have to be fixed anyway for future animations. If you for example add a door animation you would want to be able to save the state of that door. Same for lights or many other decoration that can have multiple states. Not saving this would limit the abilities greatly.
It then has nothing to do with those in big guilds thinking they were god’s gift. Suggesting that only makes you look a little silly imho.
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Talking about size 15 or talking about size 2 doesn’t automatically change the attitude of the sort of people I was referring to. It makes no difference to them. They are interested in using the efforts of their team to lift themselves up and brag. That’s their shtick.
It’s a huge difference, it’s the difference between just wanting to brag (as you put it) or just having a founded opinion about what guilds are supposed to be.
I think it’s best to give up arguing the point. Anet has made it clear that they consider a tiny group to barely even count as a group, much less a guild. They want people to zerg together, I guess.
And it’s not worth the time and energy arguing with all the people who insist that it’s fine for inexplicable reasons, when many of those same people are probably yawning in a big guild, getting benefits from the work of tons of other people.
I remember in the raiding game I used to play, every so often, you’d see one of those people who played in a hardcore-ish guild and acted like they were god’s gift to creation, but if you got in a raid with them, their skill level was incredibly mediocre. I imagine it’s much the same thing here. Lot of people who think they’re amazing because their guild has good progress, when they’re mostly being carried.
No, I for example made a suggestion that would help smaller guilds (lower required level, so smaller guilds can focus on one element). When that is done I think the system is good for bigger and for smaller guilds.
But when I see a complain then somebody basically is unable to build a hall all by himself then I think it’s taking it a little to far.
There is a big difference between big guilds (500) and small guilds imho (15). But if you than start talking about personal guilds you take it to completely other level, outside the realm of guilds.
It then has nothing to do with those in big guilds thinking they were god’s gift. Suggesting that only makes you look a little silly imho.
We all paid money for the game, and equal access to all benifits should be provided.
Just because a guild is small, is no excuse…………. Guilds Matter……….
That is the same as saying all raids should be able to be done alone.
I’m MG in my small and lovely guild and I don’t want a full and free Hall Guild. It’s not that we claim.
On GW1, I was MG in the same small guild and i remember that the hall was very expensive for us. But with the time (and gold coins!), we have bought all the ameliorations. It was possible but slowly -because we have done the choice to be small-.On GW2, before HoT,create banners or ameliorations required points of influence. We won this points with lot of patience, account’s connexions and many activities (together or alone). But it was possible to be a small guild and to have fun like big guilds,it just took time. No problems. It was our choice for our confort.
Since HoT, the only way to gain points of favor is to play missions guild, that’s sometimes impossible for small guild by lack of online players.
So… do you suggest us to leave our small guild and joining a biggest? It’s your solution? Are you serious? Do you think the fun of this game is to have only big guilds? One model? One gameplay?Having a guild hall is a privilege. Right. We have bought the extension for it, so we should have the right to obtain it too. No preference about the cost in gold coins, this system existed on GW1 and veterants players knew that. Small guilds must be patients to complete their hall.
But WHY it needs points of favor who can only be won on missions guild? Why only this way?There are also small mission doable for a small group of payers. You will make slower progress (however, you said that was not a problem) because you cannot do all missions available. But you can still make progress. or what am I missing?
Well, for a start, a “small group” of players isn’t just one player alone, is it?
Previously, I could (slowly) level my bank guild, by just playing normally, on my own.
Now I can’t; simple as that.
Not only that, but I have just lost the 10K influence I had already spent on an upgrade and the other 2.5 – 3K (maybe slightly higher) influence I was on, which I intended to use to build the final bank upgrade.
It’s just gone.
Maybe some people don’t care?
Maybe some people don’t think anyone should be able to build up a guild alone, in this game?
Even though it’s a game where you can join up to 5 guilds, simultaneously.
So, being able to do so shouldn’t (and didn’t) stop anyone joining bigger guilds, as well.
But, either way, that is the situation we are in and some of us are less than impressed.
ETA: You know what?
I’m just sick of this kitten in games, lately.
I came here from WoW, where I spent months fruitlessly trying to persuade them to reinstate things like LFR difficulty and rewards, personal loot and flying at max level.
I’m sick of being expected to beg for things we had previously and that were removed for no good reason and to the detriment of the game, as a whole.
It’s NOT OK and it is also not the job of people like me to have to try to make developers see sense, when they appear to have lost the plot entirely.
This is not why we play games.
It sucks that you lost abilities you had before. That said, we are talking about guilds here, not personal housing.
Basically you complain that you can build up your guild-hall all by yourself. Well your not supposed to, thats why it’s considered a guild-hall, not personal housing.
I’m MG in my small and lovely guild and I don’t want a full and free Hall Guild. It’s not that we claim.
On GW1, I was MG in the same small guild and i remember that the hall was very expensive for us. But with the time (and gold coins!), we have bought all the ameliorations. It was possible but slowly -because we have done the choice to be small-.On GW2, before HoT,create banners or ameliorations required points of influence. We won this points with lot of patience, account’s connexions and many activities (together or alone). But it was possible to be a small guild and to have fun like big guilds,it just took time. No problems. It was our choice for our confort.
Since HoT, the only way to gain points of favor is to play missions guild, that’s sometimes impossible for small guild by lack of online players.
So… do you suggest us to leave our small guild and joining a biggest? It’s your solution? Are you serious? Do you think the fun of this game is to have only big guilds? One model? One gameplay?Having a guild hall is a privilege. Right. We have bought the extension for it, so we should have the right to obtain it too. No preference about the cost in gold coins, this system existed on GW1 and veterants players knew that. Small guilds must be patients to complete their hall.
But WHY it needs points of favor who can only be won on missions guild? Why only this way?
There are also small mission doable for a small group of payers. You will make slower progress (however, you said that was not a problem) because you cannot do all missions available. But you can still make progress. or what am I missing?
i knew it from the beginning. u will never get a good gaming experience if a game is centered around a cash shop.
im really disapointed. it was nearly the same price as the original game but its soooo much smaller. its more like a dlc than an addon.this addon added nothing else than 4 map with living story crap. look at it…. we didnt get anything else. no new dungeons, fractals. no new weapon and armor skins except a few really uggly ones. still no access to sinister gear except by doing stupid living story. precurser crafting is really bad.
we got mega events with an server system that doenst really support this kind of events since u cant join with a big guild of ~100 ppl.
we got adventure that i did once to get mastery points. will never do them again. they suck!
While I disagree about the size of the expansion. Yes a problem is that it’s centered around a cash shop.
What is sad because it’s not supposed to. It’s supposed to be a B2P game, so centered around the game and expansion-sales.
The price of HoT was also more in line with that, while the release date (3 years after GW2) was way off as for a B2P model to work (comparing income to the cash-shop model) you would need a release every year to 1,5 years.
Anet clearly sees that their game is too much of a grind-game where people grind gold to get the items they want instead of working directly for them. That is likely why they implemented the mats for map events system (so directly farming mats is more viable.. or should be) and precursor-crafting, legendary armor from raids. On the other hand, as long as some of the best skins will stay available in the gem-store you will keep the grind.
So let’s hope that now they see that the LS approach did not really work (income dropped) while releasing a new expansion does (income raise a lot, while I still have to see the exact numbers) they might move back to their GW1 model.
reading this I get one thing, people are just too obsessed with rewards. Rewards rewards rewards… How I am going to get them as quickly as possible? There is like 0 care about the gameplay itself.
Worst yet people dont even realize what they’re wishing for. Do you really want farms that give 30+g per hour to remain untouched? do you honestly believe nerfing that was so that people would by HoT (as if there is anything that gives anywhere close to 30+g / h in HoT? Nerfing things like dungeons actually keeps old content in play people not the other way round.
Think about it… so lets say they never touched dungeons rewards. Well Anet arent stupid if they take the time to develop an expansion they want it to sell.. they’re going to do what they can to ensure it sells. People like to play the most rewarding content (see first paragraph) thus for any expansion to sell it has to have content that pays more then anything else that comes before it. Slowly as new content is released that 30g/h will rise and rise and rise which gets us to something mind boggling I read.
someone in reference to another MMO said it was super easy to make 25k gold in that game, that 25k gold is nothing which is funny to me cause i did play that game for a very little while before any of its expansions and I remember when once I helped a player find a certain npc he was looking for an gave me something like 2 or 10 gold I dont remember and was crashed cause that was orders of magnitude more gold I ever had till then. I am not sure how that game changes in the years after but I dont think rewards in the core game where expanded so much that someone who never bought any of the expansions could still play the game and enjoy himself.
Our of curiousity I went youtube and checked out some farming guides based on their years…
6 years ago…. 200g/h
2 years ago – 2600g/h
1 year ago – 10000g/h
2 months ago – 75k-120k /hso anyone can tell me whats the problem there? You think HoT is a paygate to enjoyment? If I decided to play in the core game today what items will I never be able to afford? if every expansion increased income by a factor of 10 then it would be a problem. not farming the in the latest expansion means I am pretty much cut out of the auction house.
Keeping things in check ensure you’re not forced to play specific content which is good and like the opposite of most complains in this thread!
Also can we stop comparing Gw2 expansion to Gw1 Expansions? It takes ~8 months a build a house but ~4 years to build a sky scrapper. they’re both buildings, they may both be work of art but the work required to build one is just orders of magnitude more then building the other one.
For me a big part of the way I play an MMO-RPG is indeed reward base. In an MMO there is not really one big goal like finishing the main story. You hunt down those fun items.. that is the game-play. So yes it’s rewards, rewards and more rewards.
That is also a good thing because it helps to create replay-ability.
But not now, and I personally also don’t mind them nerfing the gold-grind (while when if you nerf dungeons would be the last thing they should nerf imho).
But if then they nerf dungeon gold rewards they need to put in specific rewards or where that already is the case (TA:A) higher their drop-rate.
The problem some people have is that they got used to grind and GW2 was grindy to get items. Now that according to them some grind has moved to HoT (while I am not sure that is true.) they feel required to do more grind. I think HoT made progression with losing some of the grind by making more direct approached available. But it’s still something they need to work on, and the gem-store is not helping.
About the GW1 vs GW2 comparison. Yeah GW2 is bigger but it also has a bigger team and more players. That should even out everything.
Thanks!
The same!
We want to gain points of favor like we won points of influence.
The first word of the name of this game is “guild” and before HoT it was possible to play with your guild on many activities and rewarded for that.Since HoT there is only ONE way: doing missions guild. That’s all.
That’s not fun and fair for small guilds.
Why this limit?
Honestly I think it’s a positive. This makes guilds more like.. well a guild. You do things together to build something up together.
The old system was less personal.. influence came rolling in from members doing stuff even if he never did anything together with guild-members.
I think they can add in more things to earn favor, don’t get me wrong. When doing a raids with >50% guild-members or doing a World-boss activated as guild. That should also give favor or benefits to the guild in another way. (Like the decorations some world-bosses can reward).
But the idea that you get things for completely guild-unrelated stuff was imho bad.
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More on the topic. Maybe the question should be when you are talking about a guild. Personally I would say 15. I think Anet said something like 10 or maybe 5. They said something about this when talking about claiming the hall.
The 3 – 4 that OP talk about is simply not considered a guild by ArenaNet (and honestly I agree with that). It’s a group a friend.. a party. But not a guild.
Of course this is something you can have different idea’s over and none are factual true or false, it’s an opinion. Discussion this further is useless. But I think this is something to take into consideration when having this discussion.. From how many members are you considered a guild.
I think the current system is in fact pretty good for bigger and smaller guilds. People just have to change their expectations. As a smaller guild you might want to focus on one element.. the arena or the workshop or the tavern. You should not expect to get exactly the same as a bigger guild that has more resources.
The only improvement that I could see, is changing the required guild-level for some of the upgrades. So you can in fact max out the mine and one element of the guild (like the Workshop) while ignoring the rest. I am pretty sure that it’s now impossible because some upgrades require some level higher then what you could get by just upgrading the mine and the work-shop (as an example).
The easy fix would be to just lower that requirement, a harder but maybe better solution would be to start with lower required levels, but as soon as you unlock a upgrade for one element, the required level for another part of the hall increases. So when you would go for everything you still had the same level requirements while going for one is also a possibility.
It’s not that I completely dislike the level-system. I think locking something like the guild-hall expansion behind level 40 is in fact a positive thing.
Mythic raiding and collecting mounts (or other cosmetics) is the preferred game-play (play time) for many MMO-players.
Well no, it’s not.
The vast majority of WoW players don’t raid, at all (past LFR, anyway); let alone Mythic raid.
A lot of people like collecting mounts, it’s true.
Although, not all of us.
I was far more of a pet collector.
I also liked transmog but, in terms of gear, I tend to like simpler things; so, greens were generally more my style.
WoW gear style is, generally, pretty flashy…
I liked mounts, too, but only some of them and very few enough to run old dungeons/raids repeatedly for.
You are right.. I said ‘and’ but did mean ‘or’. What is a big difference.
“Mythic raiding or collecting mounts (or other cosmetics) is the preferred game-play (play time) for many MMO-players.”
Other than that, you do exactly show what I mean.
I also had the same with pets (you mean, ranger pets right?). Loved going into the world collecting those special ones. Also requested that to be something in GW2.
But this exactly shows what I mean. Play-time for people like us was for a (big) part, going into the world doing these things. In GW2 that has been removed.
You can still get those things by grinding gold (or some other currency) but that is something else. Grinding gold to get items != as directly working towards those items.
So if somebody says it’s fine because you can still get those items by grinding, or spending money than the is wrong.
Anet does a great job of having their overblow microtransactions set up in such a way that they don’t measurable impact the ability to play and succeed in the game itself, which is why it’s one of the only games that I still tolerate despite the heavy handed lean on the gem store.
(Not sure how this is relevant to the topic, but will react on it anyway.)
Depends really. In an MMO hunting down cosmetic items is a big part of what many players like to do. This MMO is completely skin-bases / about horizontal progression so has those people as target audience.
If you then put most or best skins behind a pay-wall then that does effect the game-play enormously.
Sure you can still get them but by a lot of grinding for gold.
If you happen to like grind, or you are not into skins then the approach they take is great as it does not affect you negatively, maybe even positively. If you however like collecting skins ankitten ot a active gold grinder then it impacts the game enormously. The game-play of going for those skins directly has effectively for the biggest part been removed from the game for you.
HoT did make positive steps here. For example this year’s Halloween skins you could earn in-game, while the only rewards you could really effetely work towards where the Tattered Wings, not the skins. Also precursor-crafting crafting (while it seems that still has some issues), Legendary armor and mats for specific maps are steps in the right direction.
But I can’t say it don’t measurable impact the ability to play, because depending on your preferred game-play is measurably does extremely impact that ability.
One example: Hunting down mini’s is for most mini’s in this game only possible by grinding gold to buy them, or buying them with cash. There are some rewarded for achievements or special content (like Liadri) but even some of them are not viable to go for directly and grinding gold is still your main option.
You can compare that to some other games where most mini’s are available as quest rewards, or from dungeons or cheap vendor sales or mob-drops.
That is a clearly measurable difference and if you happen to prefer directly hunting down mini’s in game by doing quest, killing mobs, doing dungeons then that seriously effects your ability to play as you want.
Going back to the topic.
Like I said, I think that overall halls are fine, for smaller and bigger guilds. Smaller guilds should just focus on one or some elements of the hall instead of expecting to upgrading all, and also expect to have those unlocked in the same time as a large guild takes to fully upgrade the hall (according to Anet 6 to 9 months, while I feel the fastest is more like 2 months, but that’s another discussion).
However, while I did think they were completely fine for smaller guilds before I might have been mistaken there a little. Because there is one element that messes with what I say here, and that is the XP.
Let’s say as smaller guild you want to purely focus on the Work-shop. I did not do the math bas as far as I know, some of the highest tier upgrades are directly or indirectly not available without getting to level 40. But by only leveling the mine and the workshop you will likely not get up to level 40. That would require you to also start upgrading other things effectively removing your ability to focus on specific parts of the hall.
While I think the level system is good for some things, XP seems to go on a good rate and things like guild-hall-expansion should be locked behind a level 40 guild. I also think that they might want to drop the required level for other upgrades giving smaller guilds the ability to focus on parts of the guild-hall.
Basically it should be possible to only unlocks the mine and the Arena, or the mine and the tavern or the mine and the work-station by lowering the required levels for their upgrades. That should help the smaller guilds. But other than this change I think everything is indeed fine for smaller and bigger guilds.
Wow you really refuse to understand anything I am saying.
If you need it now you grind, if you want to hunt it down while you play and enjoy the content of the game you will get it someday,
No you refuse to understand it..
Hunting them down IS what some like to do.. that IS playing for them. It’s not something they do while they play and enjoy the game, it IS their preferred content.
In some games that do have this content they do a quest to get that item and that works both ways. The quest is more fun because it rewards better and getting the reward is more fun because it’s behind that quest.
If the quest would not reward that item they would not do the quest, and if they could get the item by just grinding for it they would not get that reward.
Because that hunt for that item IS the content they like.
I never claimed to have a “solution” because the game doesn’t need one
When you look at it from a (gold) grinders perspective.
(edited by Devata.6589)
I am sorry I never meant that you did actually say ‘I want it now’, I meant that iether you can enjoy the game and it’s content and eventually you get what you want or you farm for gold to more quickly get your hands on what you want.
Also first statement you say only works on paper? Well it works for me, thats how I have played GW2 since it was released and I still enjoy it and I have never farmed for gold in the game. And I have also bought most stuff for real cash and I have a few dollars put aside to be used on MMO’s. I don’t put money on other MMO’s just to be able to play them now and I can buy lots of gems instead.
After this has been said I am going to leave it at that as you want. I beleave we won’t get anywhere with this.
“I meant that iether you can enjoy the game” There are many things in this game that I do enjoy, however one big element I enjoy doing in MMO’s is hunting down all those items. Special mounts, mini’ s, skins, toys, ranger pets. But not by grinding gold for them all, no by them giving me many different challenges.
However that part is for the biggest part grind gold (or some other currency). So that would for a big part be enjoying the game, and that is true for many people. Look at the guy who was talking about WoW and how many people were doing raids for special mounts.
“Also first statement you say only works on paper? ~ And I have also bought most stuff for real cash”
So it did not work for you. The content of hunting those items was removed from you and you payed your way out of the grind. You were not able to get them by playing the game or by directly hunting them down. We are talking here about playing right. Buying items with cash does not count as playing to me.
“I don’t put money on other MMO’s just to be able to play them now and I can buy lots of gems instead.”
Well that’s why it’s designed as it is, to get people to buy gems. I however look at it from a game-play perspective.
These threads are ridiculous. MMO developers normally force players to buy new expansions by raising the level cap and introducing more powerful gear, which makes core game obsolete. Anet did not raise level cap so they had to make core game obsolete in other ways.
You are not supposed to continue play and fully enjoy the game if you do not buy expansion. Anet needs you to buy the expansion because developing and maintaining the game is not free, it costs money.
The issue is one of the core game things they substantially nerfed (probably more than dungeons) was Fractals, which is currently the main PVE end-game for HoT as well.
It really makes no sense.
Well, they also make those rewards not account-bound anymore if I am correct? So then it makes a lot of sense because else the TP would be flooded with them and they would lose their value. Especially because Fractals is supposed to be one of the core things GW2 players do.
That is what I said before. When you make items more accessible with gold, you also reduce the ability to work for them directly (like by doing fractals). Those things are related.
That is why I said you have to put specific items behind specific content. And when that content is being farmed a lot (like also with World-bosses) you will need to make them account-bound so you can keep having accessible drop-rates while keeping the item rare.
Not doing that will mean working directly becomes impossible because you will have to make the drop-rate to low or will remove the rarity of the items.
If I would answer this problem as how it was answered to me when I complained about not being able to work directly towards many of the rewards. You want those rewards? Just play the game as you like, you will earn gold that way and then you can buy them. No need for these items to be best accessible with Fractals.
Just for the record, I do not agree with that last paragraph, but it shows the mentality and how things are related.
Of course there is not much in core game, that’s what expansions do. Where do you guys come from. First MMO or what?
I come from WoW.
Expansions don’t, generally, strip the content/rewards from the core game, there.
OK, admittedly, they have recently been going down the shady path of removing mounts and stuff from old content.
Which I don’t approve of, either – even (especially) in the case of mounts I managed to get in current content.
Everyone should have a chance to get everything, in an MMO, sooner or later.
But, overall, WoW doesn’t remove stuff.
What happens there is that stuff eventually gets outlevelled/outgeared and the rewards seem less, due to inflation.
But, actually, as people are soloing old content, rather than doing it in a large group, they are generally getting more rewards than they can in current content and certainly more than they were previously, when that older content was current.
In this game, you don’t outlevel stuff, so everything is supposed to be current and yet, almost all older/existing content’s rewards have been nerfed.
Including things that were never particularly rewarding and simple things, like levelling guilds, which are now impossible to level on your own.
This is not normal, typical, or good.
First of all, it takes months and months of VERY hardcore raiding in a great guild to acquire the best gear in WoW, and when every expansion is released, the gear becomes worse than quest greens and is useless. That’s much worse than getting a few less gold for content than you got a month and a half ago.
Sure you can go back and solo old raids, but if you think that is a significant way to gain anything of substance outside of achievement rewards then you are sorely mistaken. The items like mounts have an atrociously low drop rate (I would know, I have 259 mounts) and are almost always account bound, and the pets you get were only very valuable for a short time in MoP. On a high pop server you are lucky to see 2 people while leveling through a zone, look at WoD right now, even the “current” content is barren and mounts in the xpack are a dime a dozen.
The only thing that sets you apart is your gear, and guess what, not only do they make it useless to 99% of the players each expansion, they make it useless almost every patch.
Frankly, if everything in gw2 was as it is now, minus the cash shop, I would feel like things are a little too accessible. it takes maybe 60 hours to level to 80 with only the boosts they GIVE you, and it took me maybe an hour and a half after hitting 80 to get masteries and gliding unlocked. Not to mention just from salvaging and harvesting nodes I was able to level two crafting profs to kitten near max.
This game has a lot of things going for it, I truly believe people just get hung up on minutiae when there are ways to get things that involves paying real life money. Because honestly, take away the cash shop, and in my opinion, it’s too easy to get really good stuff.
I can’t imagine how badly people would rage if they couldn’t even touch the best stuff in the game without 19 other incredible players and hundreds of thousands of gold.
All of the complaints here aren’t invalid, they just come off to people who have been playing MMOs for years as the incoherent ramblings of people who either haven’t played an MMO before, or someone who dabbled in the past and never stuck with one long enough to see the nature of MMO end game.
Unless they’ve changed it in the last 6 months you can get a lot of gold from doing older raids in WoW.
And as you know, you can now buy play time with gold in WoW. So it’s wrong saying you don’t get anything out of playing older content in that particular game.
I’m not sure you know what “a lot of gold is” in that game. making the ~25k it takes to buy a token (which is, by the way, a system that literally allows the buying of gold) is silly easy. But if you think you’re going to make enough money to buy rare mounts or fund what it takes to make a strong push in Mythic content by running DS, ICC, or Sunwell once a week then you obviously played a different game. Running old raids for gold in WoW is one of the most inefficient ways to make gold. The only real gold reward of significance from doing those was pets, but now that doing pet battles is just an achievement dump pet prices have dropped immensely.
I also hear a lot of mention about how “grindy” GW2 is for rewards. Well the main reason people run old raids are for account bound mounts, and as someone who has run sunwell every week for 3 years and still doesn’t have ashes of al’ar all I have to say is take a step back and stop getting caught in the “grass is always greener” trap.
I never said it would fund a mythic raider or a mount collector. I said it would fund play time and that’s it.
Like, were my words not clear or something? I’m genuinely confused.
Mythic raiding or collecting mounts (or other cosmetics) is the preferred game-play (play time) for many MMO-players.
Edit: and to> or
(edited by Devata.6589)
I’m not sure you know what “a lot of gold is” in that game. making the ~25k it takes to buy a token (which is, by the way, a system that literally allows the buying of gold) is silly easy. But if you think you’re going to make enough money to buy rare mounts or fund what it takes to make a strong push in Mythic content by running DS, ICC, or Sunwell once a week then you obviously played a different game. Running old raids for gold in WoW is one of the most inefficient ways to make gold. The only real gold reward of significance from doing those was pets, but now that doing pet battles is just an achievement dump pet prices have dropped immensely.
I also hear a lot of mention about how “grindy” GW2 is for rewards. Well the main reason people run old raids are for account bound mounts, and as someone who has run sunwell every week for 3 years and still doesn’t have ashes of al’ar all I have to say is take a step back and stop getting caught in the “grass is always greener” trap.
Well your opinion is clearly from a grinders perspective. All your solutions are based on grinding gold so no wonder you like that better in GW2 as that is a good way to get most interesting rewards, in many a cases even the only one.
If grinding gold is a solution to you (what it is for a group of people) then there is not a problem with GW2 at all. But when you are in the group of people that likes to go directly for the items its different.
In WoW you could get most companions, mounts and skins by working directly towards them. Yes that sometimes means doing 1 dungeon for one mount 100 times. But then the next mount it’s a quest, the next one it’s defeating some boss, the next one is another dungeon. In GW2 in most cases it’s just grind gold, and there are a few ways to best grind gold.
Sure your example of ashes of al’ar is a bad one where the drop-rate might be way to low, especially for content that is time-gated. But that does not mean locking items this way (with better RNG) is a bad thing.
In fact. “Well the main reason people run old raids are for account bound mounts”. My point.. chasing these type of items is very important in an MMO and it’s something that keeps many people busy. Not if the way to get them is almost always by grinding gold, you will scare off many people. Not the grinders but others.
So yeah, if you take the ashes of al’ar example where you still not have it after consistently doing that raid for 3 years it’s a step back. But if you take that extremely bad RNG / time-gate out of the loop it’s a step forward. It lets people go over the world, do all kinds of content and keeps them playing for a long time. While the grind-way is fine for the grinders, but not for many other players.
If you want these fluffy mounts in GW2 can pay a one time cost and then you have that mount or you can play the game and enjoy it save your gold that you get during your journey
Works on paper, but not in reality as there are always multiple mounts you want to go for. The hunt for those items in general is game-play. That is how many enjoy playing an MMO. They said them self a goal (like a mount) and go do whatever they need to do to get that. In these examples that is always grind instead of different quest lines.
Now you say But I want that thing now!,
I should basically stop this debate with you right now, as you are saying I said something I did completely did not say. Heck I would hate it to just get items now as that completely removes the game-play value of them (just as the ability to get them by brainlessly grinding gold btw). Not only you act as if I said something I did not, you even make it bold.
My friend, if you try to win an argument by using a quote that never has been said you did lose the argument already as you show you can not make your point without making up things.
Will react on your other comments anyway.
In WoW and many other MMOrpg’s you are forced to do one or a few different instances or places to get an RNG drop and this drop is crusial to have to be able to enjoy the next bit of content.
We where talking about mounts, not about horizontal vs vertical progression. So not really relevant. But thanks for sharing..
With every game there is Hype and when the Hype dies so leaves the bad eggs also. I doubt GW2 has been in any danger of dying and I have seen constant updates and new story for GW2. So yes, less WoW players complaining that GW2 isn’t WoW is a good thing for me even if it means that GW2 looses alot of players back to WoW. It’s not a good thing to listen to Hype trains.
You are absolutely right about a game having spikes. I was more referring to the longer trend. So just after the ‘hype’ has ended. Lets say 6 months from now. You would still want to have a certain numbers of players.. not the amount you have now but still. So when I refer to people walking away I basically the number of players dropping under that what you want (after the hype).
I am also not really referring to WoW players but to players who like to hunt cosmetics. What might be a big part of the player-base for a game that is focused on cosmetics, you know like GW2.
Very few is actually complaining about any grind at all at this game.
There is this thread, there are multiple threads about the pre-cursor crafting being to grindy there are indeed people complaining about guild-hall being to grindy. And thats just now that HoT is just new and people have many more things to go for.
Again, grind is not the problem with OP’s post it is about so called Paywalls.
With many of these topics where grind is an element, the topic itself is not “stop the grind”. If you however look at the post he clearly states multiple times how you can buy the gold you need.. You see, there is a paywall to get rid of the grind.
Let’s do a comparison with WoW. Let’s say that you want some epic mount in GW2. Most of them are locked behind quest (not at all grindy) or behind a RNG drop from a dungeon (that might mean farming that dungeon).
Now let’s take GW2’s mounts next to that. The toy mounts, or the gliders. What is the in-game method to get them?
This grind (for a big part because of the gem-store) being a problem is what I have been talking about a lot in the forums for the last 2 years.
a) In January of 2015 we had 3 Devate Megathreads where ’’he’’* WAS SPEAKING IN BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY , and she asking to remove the CashShop and implanted more yearly x-packs .
We had a riot about yearly x-packs …. and ohh well the EMBASINDOT OF THE COMMUNITY FLOPPEDif i remember correclty he said :
‘’If the game dont sell many copies , myself and many others wont come back and i will come back to say I TOLD YOU SO’’b)Learn to read 6 months now ….not 2 years that you proclaim …. that WoW and other games sells Cashop items too , without the ability to gold>gems
BrB see in 2 houirs :p
Got work :P
Let remember the pasts …my Crysis 2 player …. and they didnt make Crysis 4 because they didnt catter to the hardcore :P
I am afraid you don’t remember correctly. I said if they continue to keep the grind (and may I repeat they did make progress, so we are going in the good direction with th precursor-crafting and the legendary armor from raids and the mats for map-events and this years Halloween skins being in-game rewards, Guild-hall giving long-term rewards) the second expansion will not sell well because those who left after GW2 and HoT will then not come back for the second expansion.
Also blaming the grind for a big part on the focus of the cash-shop. Not saying they would have to remove it completely.
Crysis was about Crytec possibly alienating PC-gamers (and what many did see as no problem because it was the smaller community anyway. But they didn’t see the PC-gamers where basically the billboard for Crysis 2) with Crysis 2. So I said, if you do this Crysis 3 will sell bad and we won’t have a Crysis 4. Exactly as happened. What was a response of me on somebody who was basically saying Anet knew what they did because they where the a big company and we where just gamers. So I showed that example to show that companies can make mistakes and sometimes gamers are correct while the big company is not. Not really relevant in this thread, but anyway, just to fresh up your memory.
I have no problem you trying to keep me on my words, but it helps if you then also remember the things as they where said.
Anyway yes I still stand with what I said. I am fine if they solving this grind problem without moving away from focusing on the cash-shop, instead of the focusing on yearly to 1,5 year expansions (as I suggested). But so far I do not see it happening enough.
What happens when 6 months from now everybody has completed most content and the new things being added is basically (as it was, as that was the situation I was referring to) some story with most cool items themed around that story being in the cash-shop? So if people want to get any of those new items it means, grind grind grind.. No expansion on the horizon and not many interesting things (like skins) to work towards other then grind?
Will the guild-hall decorations keep incoming and will that keep most people busy.
Idk, I hope so as the people who like skins will also like that sort of things but idk. You tell me.
HoT made clear steps trying to reduce this “grind for gold for everything” mentality. So it shows ArenaNet also see it as a problem themselves (finally and luckily). But there are still steps to take because if things will keep grindy I do indeed fear for the sales of the next expansion.
When huge wings came in the game the anti-mount part of the community did not go wild because of the clutter while they clutter the screen more than most mounts.
Some of the community, me included, HATE those wings with a burning passion. In fact, there have been a huge number of requests for an option to toggle off showing other peoples back pieces as a result.
Oh, and we don’t hate mounts because WoW had them, we hate mounts because they are tacky enormous stupid status symbols in 99.9% of the MMOs they’re implemented in. They’re tasteless and immersion breaking unless the devs work really hard to keep them as low key as possible. I absolutely can’t stand seeing people pull ridiculous 5 ton winged lions out of their pockets by magic that then disappear in a flash the moment they go in to combat.
If you seriously can’t live without that kind of stupid, just go play almost every other MMO ever.
Sure, some people don’t like wings, but there was such a heavy outcry over them as you see people debate over mounts.
“we hate mounts because they are tacky enormous stupid status symbols in 99.9% of the MMOs” there are also items and numbers and titles status symbols in GW2. So you must that also hale all those things but when they would all be removed much of the fun of an MMO is gone and the hunt for these items is a big part of a MMO.
“They’re tasteless” That is a personal opinion. Some might find Asura tasteless as well.
“I absolutely can’t stand seeing people pull ridiculous 5 ton winged lions out of their pockets by magic that then disappear in a flash the moment they go in to combat.” I agree it would be better if you mount came running to you, and run away again (like in the Witcher 3). But that already happens in GW2. Ranger pets, weapon swapping, gliders and so on.
That was the point.. all these complains make no sense. In the end it comes down to “just go play almost every other MMO ever.”. You refer to “every other MMO”, most specifically point to WoW.
ArenaNet never was really against mounts, but because GW2 did try so hard to be ‘different’ it got also a lot of people that are extremely anti WoW and see any change that GW2 could make that is something WoW has, as a move towards WoW.
So even since release there has be a substantial part of the player base that does not want mounts ‘because WoW’. I have seen many threads about this and really the only real reason they don’t want mounts is “because WoW” and they are very strickt with that opinion (well sort of, will come back to that later). All the other reasons they did give against mounts where not more than excuses as they did understand that the real reason “Because WoW” was not a very good one.
The main argument I have seen against mounts is that players would rather see the developers dedicate the resources needed to implement mounts elsewhere. Like new content, bug fixes and skin designs.
Mounts is new content.. or better said, it was. They are now implemented for NPC’s so depending on how they implemented that, the core mechanism might already be there and implementing it for players might not be a big addition at this point.
This game is not about grinding (you may think so but it is not), you can choose to grind your gold if it is better in HoT or not is just stupid. I dislike grinding so I don’t do that and I have been playing since release and still have things to do.
Let’s do a comparison with WoW. Let’s say that you want some epic mount in GW2. Most of them are locked behind quest (not at all grindy) or behind a RNG drop from a dungeon (that might mean farming that dungeon).
Now let’s take GW2’s mounts next to that. The toy mounts, or the gliders. What is the in-game method to get them?
This grind (for a big part because of the gem-store) being a problem is what I have been talking about a lot in the forums for the last 2 years. By putting (the best) items (in a horizontal progression game that includes skins) in the gem-store or making it general drops you effectively remove part of the game-play and (the hunt for those items) and replace it by grind.
With the number of players dropping you did also see the numbers of complains about this dropping. Likely because those not affected by it where left.
Now with HoT here, many old players have returned (including those that left because of the grind) so you now see once again an increase in threads complaining about the grind (directly or indirectly). And honestly, I think HoT did make steps in the right direction here. Just not enough I guess.
It’s now up to Anet to make sure they make the steps needed to solve this grind or they will leave again within the upcoming 6 months. And they will not come back for the second expansion.
And honestly it boggles why they not just implemented traditional quest for this. Those quest could send you on epic challenges to get the items you need. That would in total be a epic journey to get your precursor. Colin even said in the stream that quest would be better suited for this then events.. so they came up with collections. No wonder that for many it does not feel much as an epic journey. If you acknowledge that traditional quest very well suited for these things then implement them instead of being stubborn about it and doing anything in your power to work around quests.
Reading all this I recalled vanilla WoW and the hunter class quest for the epic bow. You got the quest from the second to last boss in Molten Core, WoWs first raid instance (which meant it was RARE… but that is not the part they got right). Once you had it you had to defeat 4 demons which were desinged to test your skills at playing the class. And these were actually difficult bosses with some nifty mechanics. Each spawned in a different location and you had to solo them within a limited time or they despawned for several hours (also despawned when someone helped you). I remember how much I enjoyed it. Took me a week or two to get them all down but it was a challenge and an adventure. It was exciting. You usually even had a crowd of spectators from both factions cheering you on (and surprisingly rarely being kittens and screwing up your attempts).
I think these are also the type of things people want from it. While likely with a longer quest-line but ending with a challenge as you explain here. The NPC giving the quest could also tell more lore about them and the weapon.
ArenaNet clearly did try to do this btw. The weapons have lore and the collections are based on that lore. But the question is, if the collection really gives the same experience and remove the grind making it a journey.
Looking at the complains I guess not.
And of course this holds true for more items. I cannot say that enough. Just look at the gliders. This was such a great opportunity to add a lot of gameplay value. Earning epic gliders with interesting quest-lines or challenges. That sort of things keep people playing until the next expansion.
But how is it implemented. One you got for free, One came with the Deluxe edition and 4 other you could buy from the gem-store. So the in-game way of getting them is by grinding gold. That is such a waste of good game-play value.
This game is great on many parts, but especially for a game that is supposed to be about horizontal progression (so getting cool skins and toys) it’s lagging a lot because those parts are for 90% just too much grinding some currency.
HoT made big steps with this, but it still needs to make many more steps and need to do so within the next half year.
There was always a non-RNG way to get the items, and that was grinding gold and buying it. (like with too many items in this game).
No, you were still dependend on the RNG and work of those selling these precursers.
Not really. Because of the system as it was, they did drop to people who did not want them and so would end up on the TP anyway. So yes, while there is RNG somewhere in the process, it’s not something you had to deal with per se.
Then grinding gold does also involve some RNG, but as with RNG, higher numbers make it more predictable. So you could pretty accurate grind x gold per y time. Effectively taking away that RNG as well.
So yeah somewhere in the process there was RNG, but not in a way that you actively had to deal with it.
If grinding gold was something you liked to do.
Never actually heard why there cant be mounts. Theres NPC MOUNTS, but no player mounts? Im not talking about skipping all the content and flying to lv 80 zones and grinding all vistas with my mount, but just something I can ride thats cool. This is fashion wars, but theres no mounts?
ArenaNet never was really against mounts, but because GW2 did try so hard to be ‘different’ it got also a lot of people that are extremely anti WoW and see any change that GW2 could make that is something WoW has, as a move towards WoW.
So even since release there has be a substantial part of the player base that does not want mounts ‘because WoW’. I have seen many threads about this and really the only real reason they don’t want mounts is “because WoW” and they are very strickt with that opinion (well sort of, will come back to that later). All the other reasons they did give against mounts where not more than excuses as they did understand that the real reason “Because WoW” was not a very good one.
So we have seen excuses as “it did not fit in the lore”, what makes no sense as GW1 had mounts, there where horse carriages since release in GW2, just as char copters, char vehicles, airships, submarines and so on. Also it would just look stupid and clutter the screen and flying was completely unthinkable.
However when Anet implemented the first mounts in the form of toys no complains did come in. the excuses simply changed. It was a toy, not a mount and did not give a speed-boost. When huge wings came in the game the anti-mount part of the community did not go wild because of the clutter while they clutter the screen more than most mounts. Now we have NPC’s on mounts what completely puts the nail in the coffin of the lore debate and nobody complains. And of course we have WvW mounts (but they don’t count because it’s for WvW) and then the gliders what are a form of flying mounts.. but now they are fine because they have some limitations compared to normal flying skins.
So basically, Anet does not want to kitten of that part of the player base but clearly does want mounts so basically introduce them slowly. And as long as you give that part of the player base an excuse they can tell them-selves why these mounts are not really mounts, they are just fine with mounts and use them.
So I think those mounts are coming soon, probably in the form of masteries. Because then it’s not just a mount but a mastery.. you see..
And then the playerbase can finally enjoy the fun of mounts.. uhhm I mean of that mastery.
I just hope, getting those mounts will also involve interesting game-play in the world. Not more gem-store mounts. This being a B2P game, not a cash-shop game. But so far Anet does have a very bad track-record. So while we might have the joy of riding mounts soon, we likely don’t have the game-play element so many enjoy that goes with it.
ehm… here are just my 2 cents but what if Anet would just make a third smaller guild hall which is cheaper to upgrade but also 1/4 of the size? Same size arena but everything else would be smaller. Even though I’m part of a 1 man guild I would still keep my large hall but at least the 6 man guilds and such can get easier acces to certain features.
The real functions from the guild-hall come from the upgrades, not from the size. So that does not seem to be a very fair trait.
But maybe a smaller guild-hall that also has 1/4th of the available upgrades? Then again, you now already have the ability to only take 1/4th of the upgrades. So that possibility already exists.
I don’t want a fully upgraded guild hall, but as a small wvw guild i want a arena in our guildhall so that we can use it for the purpose it is there. I certainly don’t want to merge in to a big guild, that is ridiculous, i am in a guild with a certain aim, and joining a blobby guild with milions of people having to share the arena with them, well sorry that is not working for us, we want to have the arena to be able to invite other guilds to fight with us when ever we want and the enemies are avaiable, not when the arena might be free and not full of 300 members that create lag.
At this point this will take ages for us to get a fully upgraded arena, and we are punished because we are small with a aim, a aim that the guild halls are meant to be used for.
This is imho the correct attitude towards guild-halls for smaller guilds but with one exception.
Smaller guilds should indeed imho focus on parts of the hall. PvP or WvW or Decorations (scribing) or PvE. You could go for more, but on a way longer term.
However, you should see that in the same scope as for a big guild to build up the full hall (what according to Anet takes 6 to 9 months). And then I think t’s easily doable.
Also don’t think it’s per definition much easier for bigger guilds then for smaller guilds. Even when trying to set up a real good community of people with bigger guilds, you will always have people who will not be so invested in the guild and rather sell their mats then donate them to the guild-hall.
In fact, if you happen to have a smaller guild that exist mainly of people who grind a lot (and so have many mats) it might even be easier to build up the guild-hall.
But overall I think depending of the size of your guild you should have another attitude towards guild-halls. Also don’t forget that mat prices will start dropping once the bigger guilds have their hall fully upgraded.
precursor crafting was never meant to be a way to get the precursor cheaper than the tp it is just a way to get a precursor out of RNG something you can work towards rather than hoping it would randomly drop.
get it through your thick skulls devs never ever mentioned it to be cheap or free it was stated multiple times it will retain the cost of the precursor in the market.
There was always a non-RNG way to get the items, and that was grinding gold and buying it. (like with too many items in this game).
It was now indeed supposed to become a item you could work towards, it had to be a journey.
However as many here suggest (and I still have to test it myself) you now need to gather materials that are not really viable to get directly (just like the precursor itself was not really something you could go for other then buying it after grinding gold).
Resulting in people still needing to grind gold to buy the materials. So the thing people wanted to avoid they now still need to do.
Other people say you can get the materials you need for the precursor easy, I will find our soon enough I guess.
I still find this thread (and many like it) mainly interested because it shows how many people dislike grinding for gold to buy items, but prefer the life of the land mentality.
Imho that grind for currency mentality is what did scare of most people from GW2. Those did come back with HoT resulting in so many topic where this subject gets touched. HoT made big steps if it comes to life of the land, but also added even more currencies, more gem-store items and more grindy content. So they better do that before those people walk away again.
If that means the precursor hunt also needs some adjustments then so be it.
I love that they implemented it, and it’s one of the things what I looked forward to with HoT. More then the new specializations. However if so many people feel it’s still grinding gold to buy what they need it clearly needs some tweaking.
And honestly it boggles my mind why they not just implemented traditional quest for this. Those quest could send you on epic challenges to get the items you need. That would in total be a epic journey to get your precursor. Colin even said in the stream that quest would be better suited for this then events.. so they came up with collections. No wonder that for many it does not feel much as an epic journey. If you acknowledge that traditional quest are very well suited for these things then implement them instead of being stubborn about it and doing anything in your power to work around quests.
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This game has far less loot than all of my other MMOs. So, no, I don’t have any trouble opening what little loot I get around here.
Not sure what other MMO you played but I never got so many loot in any other MMO. Not even close.
It does however not feel rewarding, in those other MMO’s you might do a quest and for completing that quest you then got a mini, or a new skin or a recipe. That then feel rewarding.
In GW2 in the MKD getting a Tattered Wing did feel rewarding.
These bags full of loot do not.
So in quantity I can not say I did ever see a other MMO with so many loot. In quality it’s the other way around. Most things that have quality (value / look nice / are fun) you usually just need to buy with gold from the TP, create with a craft after a lot of boring grinding to get the mats or are on the gem-store. But they do not come a lot in the form of drops.
Well they can, but then it feels completely random.. it’s one of the items in your bags full of junk. It’s not a reward for doing something really. Even if you got the endless bat tonic to drop now from a few ToT bags, while rewarding, it does not feel as rewarding as it would when it was a drop from some challenging content itself. Like the quest in the other mmo example, or killing the Mad King in the MKD example.
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You do understand that was an example. I also know it involves more than those charged lodestones. The thing is that there is no resendable / doable way to get those lodestones other than grinding gold.
You can get them through the new map bonus system by doing events in the appropriate map which conveniently also levels your legendary crafting mastery at the same time.
You also need to buy crystals that cost about 1 gold and you can only buy (I think you could also get them by doing SAB, but not at this moment).
What crystals?
The only crystal I am aware of that is related to legendary crafting is the Mystic Crystal and you buy those with Spirit Shards.
Not sure if there is a decent way to farm Globs of Ectoplasm?
World boss train (fractals isn’t bad either). Salvage all the rares.
Some of the T6 materials you cannot farm (maybe that got better with HoT, have not tested that yet).
Same situation as Charged Lodestones. Map bonus system includes these.
You might also need Unidentified Dyes, but where to farm those? As far as I know they can drop from many places (so will end up on the TP) but there are no real ways to in any reasonable rate farm them.
These are a bit tougher. Basically you need to do the same as black lion key farmers and farm the personal story but I don’t think the source of the dyes has a weekly limit(yet?).
I said I was very happy with HoT moving towards the Life of the Land mentality (somehow some people seem to forget that and purely focus on the fact that I say that it’s also holds true that for many things grinding gold is still the only viable option).
Testing the map bonus is high on my to-do list and something I did really look forward to with HoT (and something I praised). So hope you are right and this has now become (the most) viable option.
But your post perfectly displays the point what I am trying to make. HoT was good a step in the right direction, but it’s not there yet.
Well on the other end of this is … Armored Scales. Those are in Southsun Cove currently and trying to get them from doing events in Southsun Cove is definitely not worth it.
This I still have to test, but it is disappointing to me if this is true.. you are referring to the new ‘mats from map’ system right?
What would then be a good way to get Armored Scales.. other then grinding gold?
Also see from how many places it drops: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armored_Scale
They even drop from ToT bags and Wintersday gift. If you make it drop from so many places drop-rates need to be extremely low.
If the map system does not work then basically only killing the Karka Queen is a somewhat doable way but heavily time-gates.
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snip
First you should learn to use forum properly, not only your quoting is bad but its clogging up half of page.
Second, about tequatl, I did explain why its stupid. Its you who has no ability to understand it. U compare tequatl with charged lodestones which is ridiculous. One obviously has way less drop % and is not something u need to farm. Buying mini teq for gold is ok, so is buying charged lodestones/cores but its also reasonable to farm charged cores but is not reasonable to farm mini tequatl. What u saying is nonsense because u claim that farming cores is not reasonable, that’s simply not true. U are one lazy individual who don’t want to invest time into farming, and come here to whine cause of crazy amount of mats needed to get legendary.
Since u don’t have decent arguments, u took extremely silly argument that only way to farm things is silverwastes and that its so much better compared to alternatives, that other ways are not realistic ( this is not truth). As someone who has farmed in many ways including charged cores in coe , and as someone who made 6 legendary weapons, I came here to explain to everyone who have doubts.
Farming gold and trading it for mats is viable.
Farming mats needed is viable and realistic in big majority of things.
I’ve done all that. Bring more of whine, I’ll be ready whenever.
Well I tried farming charged lodestones (and also some other mats) and it was not at all a viable option. (some are btw)
The Tequatl was just a good example to show how a system works, it was not about Tequatl or the mini, it was about the system.. How one thing effects the other.
You see, because Anet knew Teq was getting farmed, the drop-rate for the mini had to be adjusted to that “what needs to be the drop-rate to prevent a overload of mini’s on the TP within a week”, and not to the question “what would be a reasonable drop-rate for a player going for that mini”.
The answer to the first question results in lower drop-rates making it harder to go for it directly and making grinding gold for it the better option.
If the mini would have been account-bound or lets say Teq would only drop that mini and so would not be farmed so much for it’s loot, then the drop-rate could be much higher.
It looks like something like this also happened to Fractals, that also shows this effect. WoodenPatatoes talked about how the drop-rate in fractals had gone down a lot. But that the chest could now be sold on the TP.
This can eventually also result in the situation where doing the most optimal gold-grind in GW2 gives you a better way to obtaining those chest then to do fractals itself.
The same holds true for mats or any other item really. When items drop from one specific place and that placed is not being farmed for other things as well, or if items are account-bound, you can make higher drop-rates while keeping the same rarity / value on for that item. (simple math really)
If items drops from many places or a place that also gets farmed for other things (so general good loot) and those items are not account-bound then you need way lower drop-rates to keep the same value / rarity to that item (until demands drop).
However, those different approaches result in the fact that farming items directly becomes harder / less viable versus going for the most optimal currency grind.
It’s that simple. If you can not understand this that I can’t help you with that.
I am not lazy if it comes to ‘farming’ mats. But I am lazy if it comes to grinding currency. That just bores my to death. While I do think mats (items you need many of in a recipe) is something I think you should not need to have a heavy farm for. Mats should be easy to get.
You should put in items you only need 1 of that are really hard to get. A recipe or a precursor item (like the brew for Nightfury, while that has the problem that it’s time-limited. But lets say the brew was an extremely hard drop from the MKD and that dungeon was here all year round. Then that was a great system. Those mats (seeds) you need for Nightfury are in fact easy to farm)
You can keep saying it’s viable to farm all those T6 mats / charged lodestones. However, this thread and many like it show that many people disagree with that idea. Going more into this would only make it a yes / no game.
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First… 1 core = 1g… and the thing they give u 1g sure as reward is one of best things that happened. So that people like you, who hate coe don’t actually have to go coe to get core, instead u can get 1g in TA and buy core needed.
But Devata wants that things are farmed at specifics spots, which are preferably by his taste. Again arrogance is big this one. You are not center of universe. There’s bunch of content I don’t prefer and its giving rewards that I don’t need. Yea then universal currency called gold is great. I can go get gold from place that I actually enjoy. Nothing wrong with that. But Devata wants to farm specific mats directly, not gold (which is pure nonsense) and that spot must be to his taste. It cant be COE, it cant be silverwaste, and who knows what else this Devata don’t like. So anet go rush, redo all content to needs of one Devata. U see what nonsense u are asking?
There are million players, each with different needs, tastes. Of course farming gold is not changeable. We cant pidgeon hole farming things to specific like u want. Be happy that everything reward gold. That means u can do whatever u want, and buy whatever u need. And in the end, if u want, u can go farm it directly if it suits you. But having option to get items for gold, that’s one of the best things here.Second… your example of tequtl is just stupid. Chances of mini teq dropping are lower then charged core. It just show how u have no idea how often charged cores are dropped.
I can argue with you forever on this, you are just lazy person who loves to whine instead of working towards his goals. I’m waiting for your more replies, bring it on.
“First… 1 core = 1g… and the thing they give u 1g sure as reward is one of best things that happened. So that people like you, who hate coe don’t actually have to go coe to get core, instead u can get 1g in TA and buy core needed.“
What has the negative effect I did show with the Tequatl example.
“But Devata wants that things are farmed at specifics spots” Yes “which are preferably by his taste.” Never said that. No they do not all have to be dropped from content I like.
Trying to proof your point by commenting on something that I did not say only disproof’s your point.
“Again arrogance is big this one.” Wanting items to drop from specific places is then just as arrogant as wanting it to drop from specific places. What I want frustrates those who prefer to just grind gold to buy it. While wanting it to not being this ways frustrates those who want to farm in specific spots (as that becomes harder) and those that like the game-play value of an item.
“You are not center of universe.” What would only be relevant if the “which are preferably by his taste.” Is something I did in fact say. Only it wasn’t.
“There’s bunch of content I don’t prefer and its giving rewards that I do (edit) need. Yea then universal currency called gold is great. I can go get gold from place that I actually enjoy.” If getting the items by grinding gold is something you like and you don’t care about the game-play value for that item. So it’s good because this is something you like… What was that about arrogance again?
“Nothing wrong with that.” Because that is how Duncanmix likes it.
“. But Devata wants to farm specific mats directly, not gold (which is pure nonsense)” Pure nonsense because that is how Duncanmix likes it.
“and that spot must be to his taste.” Something that is false and nothing I did say.
“It cant be COE” something I did not say.
“it cant be silverwaste,” something I did not say.
“and who knows what else this Devata don’t like.” something I did not say.
“There are million players, each with different needs, tastes.” However looking at those that like to go for mats directly and like the game-play value of items should be ignored?
You know what. If you have anything to say about what I actually said let me know. ?
Also the fact that the best you can come up with about the teq example is that it’s “stupid” says enough.
Think about it, someone can go and save an insane amount of gold (if they are that insane) and buy said skin from say 2013, and then claim they were there from day one and got it the first year
So what if they do?
No, seriously what’s the problem here?
Do you REALLY think there are any bragging rights associated with happening to be playing a VIDEO GAME at a particular point in time?
Really?
It’s not about bragging rights. More a token of participation / completion. There is a game-value linked to an item that only comes from one source.
It means you where there and completed that content. Once you make an item tradable you completely remove that value from the item.
I perceive two possible ‘values’:
1) the personal value you place the sense of achievement YOU feel for having obtained that item and participating in the event when it happened – ergo, you were lucky to be playing the game at a particular moment in time and you enjoy having a momento of that, I ‘get’ that view, what I don’t ‘get’ is why YOUR personal sense of value is in any way affected by someone else being able to buy it, that IN NO WAY diminishes YOUR achievement …
… but it WILL DO if you subscribe to …
2) the bragging rights which possessing it and flaunting it you think it give, I entirely reject that view.
I see no other ‘value’ in something like this, and I’m sure it’s the latter for those arguing the OP’s view.
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BTW, I’m using ‘bragging rights’ because the ‘e’ word is censored but I consider that word far more applicable in this context.
Nice that you enlighten us of the fact that you don’t see it. I can tell you many do.
“YOU feel for having obtained that item and participating in the event when it happened” This can indeed be a perceived value. The item only being available from that content is a factual value. The value of the item is now the accomplishment of that content.. factual, not perceived.
Caps are not going to change this fact.
And yes, how somebody else got it is also relevant. If you got some item by completing some extremely hard content, while somebody else got it from some brainless grind then that feels / is perceived by many as unfair or bad. A feeling that you cannot see I guess. But the item also misses that factual value I talked about before.
Hope this enlightens you a little more.
Still not my experience at all (more like 1 charged core every 2 runs). But even if you are right here, grinding Silverwaste (when going by the 10 gold an hour people seem to get) is a little faster, less effort and not / less time-gated.
And what you people don’t seem to get is that this would still be true even if precursor crafting didn’t involve massing large amounts of crafting materials. Even IF the process instead involved months of completing various “legendary challenges” (we’ll ignore that the forms of ingame PvE content that is actually challenging and can’t be facerolled through zerg surfing is minuscule), as you guys like to say, it would still be more efficient and quicker to just farm Silverwastes at the 10 gold an hour you’re quoting and buy it off the TP. The only way this would cease to be true is if the “legendary journey” was laughably easy/short, if precursors were removed from all drop tables, or if precursor prices on the TP shoot up.
So, as I argued in my previous post, it really comes down to people being upset that the new method isn’t easier/faster than the old method. You’re able to earn the materials through “normal” ingame content, but you dismiss those methods because they aren’t “as efficient” as farming Silverwastes. And I’m still predicting that a large number of people arguing for this supposed “legendary journey” will also be arguing how unfair it is that legendary armor components are earned through raids which they can’t/won’t do for whatever reason.
“as you guys like to say, it would still be more efficient and quicker to just farm Silverwastes
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the only way this would cease to be true is if the “legendary journey” was laughably easy/short, if precursors were removed from all drop tables, or if precursor prices on the TP shoot up.”
No you clearly don’t get it, It’s true that the fact that the journey should be a more efficient way then grinding gold is part of the complaint.. but it has nothing to do with the journey being too long or too hard.
Let’s take some of these things out of the equation to show that.
First of all, let’s say they are not tradable anymore (like the new ones). However for many of the mats you need for them, it’s still true that you are basically getting forced, or pushed towards grinding gold because that is the most profitable or viable option to get those mats? Well then the complaint would still be there.
But now let’s say getting those mats would be just as viable as grinding gold, and not only that but you cannot even get those mats with gold.
In this scenario the journey would still be just as long and just as hard. But these complains would be gone (sure some people might want is easy, but that’s not what people talk about here).
So it’s not at all related to the length of the journey by itself, it however is related to being pushed to grind gold or grinding gold being at least the most viable option.
That is a big difference.