Guild Wars 2

Duncanmix.5238:

Devata.6589:

Well I did multiple CoE runs without any of those drops. But let’s say you are right that is 30 hours and 26 min just to farm the mats. Where in those hours of grinding you slowly see the number of mats go up (really, those mats have now become a currency and is a boring time of grind) what would make Silverwaste still a little more efficient.

Just see what you say here.. A run takes 10 to 15 min. By doing it daily 30 min (as you suggest) means 2 – 3 runs a day. 2 months is about 61 days. 2,5 * 61 = 152,5 runs. So that is 2 Charged Lodestones for 3 runs?

Sadly my experience is not that I could this drop-rate of lodestones with COF runs. Maybe you mean that you also use the gold you earn to buy the charged lodestones (while the hole point was to prevent gold-grinding) not to mention that you might need some of that to turn charged cores into charged lodestones. That is on average (for 30 min if a run takes 10 to 15 min) 50 silver per day from CoE. So that does also not get us far as the gold we earn with 2 months of CoE buys us 10,5 charged lodestones. Let’s say we sell all the other stuff we get, maybe 15.

Not to mention that this gold (the thing we tried to prevent in the first place) is time-gated. You can keep running Silverwaste to earn gold but you can do the dungeon only once a day for the gold reward (other than the mats).

Anyway, let’s say we take that gold to buy those 15 charged lodestones. Then we need 85 more CoE would still have to drop. So now I would only need 1 charged lodestone to drop every 2 runs.

Still not my experience at all (more like 1 charged core every 2 runs). But even if you are right here, grinding Silverwaste (when going by the 10 gold an hour people seem to get) is a little faster, less effort and not / less time-gated.

So I am sorry, but you did not convince me that this is a viable way to farm them. And that is when I use your drop-rates that are way better then what I have experienced.

I will go test the new option of farming maps by doing events in a map so can’t say much about that yet.

Of course I’m counting 1g + cores/lodestone + rest of drops in my coe runs. Would it be better if anet instead of giving u 1g gave you 1 charged core? Wouldn’t that be same? U do coe and u end up with 1 core either way.
Your problem is that u don’t prefer dungeon runs. You don’t like silverwastes. You seem to not like bunch of stuff. And another thing, before hot dungeon runs were fast way to get gold. Silverwaste is not some king of money making. Its up to players to decide how they gonna farm things.
You have goal which is legendary and then u go and get it. Don’t have to be fastest way, don’t have to be most efficient way either. Get it the way u want to play game. Options are out there. U making it sound as if silverwaste is only way, and I didn’t farm that map at all for gold. I don’t really have numbers for silverwaste gold per hour, but I’m sure dungeons are up there, if not better. Well not anymore, but point stays… people who want legendary and are willing to put work will find a way. People who are not willing to put work, well keep your whine coming its entertaining to read.

“Of course I’m counting 1g + cores/lodestone + rest of drops in my coe runs. Would it be better if Anet instead of giving u 1g gave you 1 charged core? Wouldn’t that be same?”

Nope, huge difference. I will keep it general in the example. If there is some specific content that rewards specific items but not (also) overall ‘good’ loot. Then that because the most viable way to get that item.

If items drop from many places, or from places that get farmed for their general good loot, that means you have to lower the drop-rate of the specific items. Because many people grind that for the general good loot what would mean to many of those items end up on the TP. But by lowering those drops while still having general good loot it means working directly for that item becomes harder. This will then result in the fact that you are better off buying it from the TP then farming for it.

A perfect example of this are some of the special World Boss drops. Many people farm the bosses because they have general good loot. Because of this the drop-rate on specific items have to be very low because else the TP would be flooded with those items. Now you still get many people getting it (who are not after it) because it’s farmed by so many and they put in on the TP. But getting it yourself when that is your goal has become harder.. Well as direct drop, buying it becomes the more viable option.

So let’s say somebody wants the Mini Tequatl the Sunless. This is a rare drop from Tequatl the Sunless. Exactly what I want right? Specific drop from specific content. But this is destroyed by the fact that Tequatl drops overall good loot and so people farm it. If anybody was now to ask you how to get the Mini Tequatl, would you suggest him to kill Tequatl. No obviously not. What I read about it, it looks like the drop-rate is about 1/50. So if you would suggest your friend to do that it means he would need an average of 50 kills to get the mini. He might be able to make it to 3 spawns a day. So going full out for that it would might take him on average about 17 days. Let’s say one battle takes 20 min? So about 5,7 hour spread out over 17 days.

Or you send him to Silverwaste, where he grinds for 17 min to get the 2 gold, 72 silver and 31 copper it costs at the TP.

Perfect example of how this works.

So to go back to your question. If we would do it so it dropped 1 core that means directly farming the cores becomes a more viable option then it’s now. With 1 gold instead of 1 core it results in grinding gold (not just by doing that dungeon) because the more viable option and farming directly becomes harder or in some cases even unreasonably hard.

So yes, it’s a huge difference. Now I don’t think mats are something that should the ‘the’ reward for dungeons. That is more something for nodes. But I hope you get the logic.

“Your problem is that u don’t prefer dungeon runs. You don’t like silverwastes. You seem to not like bunch of stuff.” CoE is not one of my favorite dungeon, I like TA Aetherblade better. But it’s nonsense to put it on “you just don’t like those things”. I like almost everything, as long as it has good goals for me. So like “I want X”, ok then “go do Y”. That makes Y much more interesting for me. However because of the way it’s implemented (and I proved by the example above) the way it works is mainly: You want X? Grind some currency. You want Y? Grind some currency. You want Z? Grind some currency. That is what I do not like.

You can say, it does not have to be the most efficient way, but I do think going for something directly should by its nature be the most efficient way. Not doing that means you get punished by going directly for it.. and then there are those things where it’s literally impossible or just not reasonably doable.

Kraggy.4169:

Lusts.3890:

Think about it, someone can go and save an insane amount of gold (if they are that insane) and buy said skin from say 2013, and then claim they were there from day one and got it the first year

So what if they do?

No, seriously what’s the problem here?

Do you REALLY think there are any bragging rights associated with happening to be playing a VIDEO GAME at a particular point in time?

Really?

It’s not about bragging rights. More a token of participation / completion. There is a game-value linked to an item that only comes from one source.

It means you where there and completed that content. Once you make an item tradable you completely remove that value from the item.

This is an subject I talk a lot about (as it’s related to grinding gold vs going directly for the item) because I also find it important item represent something. That type of value is important imho. Maybe not for you, but for many It is. Even Anet sees that and basically said that it was a mistake to make the Legendary weapons tradable because of this reason.

The only problem with OP’s statement is that he is talking about a temporary event in combination with RNG drops. And then you have to be careful. If you want to give the item the meaning of “he was here” or “He completed this content” then it has to be a guaranteed drop.

A nice way to do this is to put one special guaranteed drop for all the content (one for the clock-tower, one for the lab, one for the mad king and so on). These change every year and are account-bound. In addition you add some RNG-drops but they return every year.

I agree for the most part, however:

“If you keep them tradeable, then re-release these skins for everyone to earn again. And for those who get angry with this opinion, I don’t care. It’s a dumb idea to make exclusives tradeable. It devalues the actual item.”

More items (not all) should come from one source to give them more game value. However if you do this with holiday events that means even more you should bring them back. Because else it just means somebody was lucky or not, and if he was not then there is not another opportunity to go for that item.

Let’s say the pumpkin smasher skin was a possible drop from the Mad King, account-bound and only available this year. What would it then mean if you did see anybody with that hammer..? That he was here this year and did the content.

But what does it mean that somebody else does not have it? He might still have been here, and done the content but basically run out of time because it was a temporary event. And then there will be no way he will ever be able to get that item again what might be very frustrating for him if he really wants that item a lot.

So you say they need to come back every year if they are tradable as if that is less important then when they are account-bound. But if it’s account-bound this is even more important.

The problem then is that the item does not anymore show that a person joined for this year’s Halloween vs Next year. The only way to make an item that has that goal, is to give that item for free just for logging in during the festival or make it a guaranteed drop from some content.

Duncanmix.5238:

Devata.6589:

I did not do research into the precursor crafting no and even said I did not start that yet just to be clear about that. I also said it’s the subject itself of people not wanting to have grind gold is more what is why I am interested in this topic. And that I did do my research for.

And unless they recently changed the drop-rate, I DID try (researched) charged lodestones farms. Tried to farm sparks but did not get 1 after 3 hour of killing them (also they disappear based on the event). I also did multiple runs of COE without any charged lodestones.

Not saying they don’t drop there, I know that are places where they drop ‘more’. But if on average you have no drop after multiple runs, and you need 100 / 250 of it then that is not a realistic way of farming them. Especially not when you could brainlessly grind Silverwaste and earn the gold to buy them much faster that way.

So stop saying people don’t do research and then come with a false representation because it looks like you did not do the research yourself.

Or was in your case reading Killthehealersffs comment the research?

Skelk farm? Yes that was a viable option for a short while when they introduced Southsun 2.0 but that got nerfed very fast again making grinding gold a much more reliable option. Laurels is a currency, that is not life from the land. The hole point was here to farm the items directly. Laurels fit the same category as gold.

Did not do the troll farm so cannot say much about that.

I know how to get globs, salvaging rares. I said I don’t know a way to directly farm globs. Even if you use the salvage method that means you need a good way to farm rares. So I know how to get globs but the best way to farm them that I know of, is grinding gold and then buying rares to salvage them.

Well you did very poor research job. But again as someone who clearly has much more experience in this then you, let me enlighten you yet again.

Charged lodestones were done through coe run before hot. You would do coe runs which were 10-15 minutes, depending on luck u get some cores or lodestone. But also each run would net u over 1g + bags which also drop lodestones. This was viable way of farming charged lodestones + gold. Now this might not be viable to you, or someone who cant stand dungeons for long time. But I can guarantee you if u did 30 minutes of coe for 2 months each day, you would have your charged lodestones.
After hot, anet introduced new way of obtaining materials. U can go do events on maps which reward charged lodestones. If you click M, you can hover over each map and see prize pool.

Before you could farm t6 mats directly, like I said on skelks/trolls etc… It was viable way. Now all u have to do is find map which reward desired t6 mats. And u gain karma by doing events. Did u know, you need 1m karma for legendary? Well now u do, and u can kill 2 birds with one stone.

Laurels are not gold, what a nonsense. U just have to log daily to get a lot of laurels. In few months u would have many t6 mats just by doing so. There is no grind for gold which u are very against here. Unless you counting login in as grind.

And as for direct farm of globs… U go world bosses runs, get plenty of rares – salvage those and u got it. Champion loot bag hunt was full of rares, any farm involving many bags actually will get u plenty of rares to salvage. But by the time u are done with your legendary, u will simply have so much globs that wont even be problem.

Your problem is, your think your views are some set objective truths.
When you say running multiple coe runs is not realistic, that’s your view. But plenty of people did it, including me. And the truth is, its all subjective.

You might find person who don’t enjoy dungeon runs. So he will have to farm gold for lodesones, or person who hate world bosses, so he will obtain some item other way.
Crafting legendary will require farming many different things, and for most of them, there are ways to do it. Anet wont design legendary based on what u think. They should now come read that u think farming coe is not reasonable, and come up with different activity that will suit Devata. Oh hey guys Devata don’t like t6 farming, lets find what he likes… You are not center of universe. Your views are not objective truth.
When you say coe run is not reasonable, add FOR ME at the end of that phrase and then conclude that farming legendary might not be content designed for you.

Well I did multiple CoE runs without any of those drops. But let’s say you are right that is 30 hours and 26 min just to farm the mats. Where in those hours of grinding you slowly see the number of mats go up (really, those mats have now become a currency and is a boring time of grind) what would make Silverwaste still a little more efficient.

Just see what you say here.. A run takes 10 to 15 min. By doing it daily 30 min (as you suggest) means 2 – 3 runs a day. 2 months is about 61 days. 2,5 * 61 = 152,5 runs. So that is 2 Charged Lodestones for 3 runs?

Sadly my experience is not that I could this drop-rate of lodestones with COF runs. Maybe you mean that you also use the gold you earn to buy the charged lodestones (while the hole point was to prevent gold-grinding) not to mention that you might need some of that to turn charged cores into charged lodestones. That is on average (for 30 min if a run takes 10 to 15 min) 50 silver per day from CoE. So that does also not get us far as the gold we earn with 2 months of CoE buys us 10,5 charged lodestones. Let’s say we sell all the other stuff we get, maybe 15.

Not to mention that this gold (the thing we tried to prevent in the first place) is time-gated. You can keep running Silverwaste to earn gold but you can do the dungeon only once a day for the gold reward (other than the mats).

Anyway, let’s say we take that gold to buy those 15 charged lodestones. Then we need 85 more CoE would still have to drop. So now I would only need 1 charged lodestone to drop every 2 runs.

Still not my experience at all (more like 1 charged core every 2 runs). But even if you are right here, grinding Silverwaste (when going by the 10 gold an hour people seem to get) is a little faster, less effort and not / less time-gated.

So I am sorry, but you did not convince me that this is a viable way to farm them. And that is when I use your drop-rates that are way better then what I have experienced.

I will go test the new option of farming maps by doing events in a map so can’t say much about that yet.

Linken.6345:

Devata.6589:

Jana.6831:

Devata.6589:

Well I also think that it was bad that Legendaries where tradable, when I found that out 3 years ago I was like WTF? Precursors should have a system like now and should indeed also have been account-bound. It just made no sense that they were tradable from a game-play perspective. Luckily Anet eventually came to that same conclusion and made the new ones account-bound. I also agree they cannot now make the first ones account bound as well.

I agree on legendaries and explained the problem with non tradeable precursers – I don’t want a GS, I want a dagger. So I end up filling my bank with stuff I don’t want. I guess that’s why they were tradeable. No idea why legendaries are.

Devata.6589:

However I disagree that only that part is the problem. That part completely devalues the game-play value of the item, and you solve that by making is account-bound.

Not sure if I got you right, but I tried to explain it above: I’m pretty sure they hadn’t had the resources to make a legendary journey at launch.

The rest of what you wrote is an idealization of what legendaries should be, but again: Then they should’ve been “journeys” all along and if anet hadn’t had the resources to make them right at launch, then the only possible solution would’ve been to make them a) drops, b) never get them into the game (since I bet it takes quite a bit to create challenging unique stories for 20? weapons) – what would you prefer?

But since we already have precursers/legendaries in game and a lot of you wanted a “journey” this is the best what “you” could get.

Funny thing is, that you end up with a GS instead of a dagger is because of this system where stuff is dropping generally also resulting in you not being able to directly work towards getting it but being forced to just grind stuff to sell to buy what you want.

If in the first place it would be so that you could work directly towards the item you want (like now with the precursor-crafting) then you would not end up with the GS instead of the dagger. You know, you want the dagger and that boss can drop the dagger so you kill that boss. Not the boss that can drop the GS.

I also want to repeat that I like the precursor crafting. I just don’t know if it’s the best we could get.. If it still required grinding gold for items, because you can’t really get those items any other way then it’s not. As it should be so that you can get those items yourself. And that is true for everything in the game imho not only the precursors.

And this here people is the perfect example of a grind you have to kill the same boss over and over and over then pray he drop what ever weapon drop the game have put on him clap just what people dont want mate

Edit
To the guy I quoted is it ok to quote you in every grind topic that gets made?
Its always good to have a handy example to show the complainers what a grind is.

Yeah that is farming yes, you are right (as I see it, you grind currency and farm an item). There is however a difference. For weapon 1 you farm dungeon x, for weapon 2 dungeon y for skin 1 boss z. This sends you all over the world doing many different things.

Then the grind-gold.. There are x number of good gold-grind and for everything, you grind those same 5 things. You want some mat you can’t farm? Grind gold, want a special weapon, grind gold, want that skin, grind gold, want that mini? Grind gold.

You are focusing on one item and then say.. well you don’t want to grind, but suggest a farm.. Does not matter if you farm a dungeon or grind gold.

Even then there is a difference because when a boss drops an item the reward it linked to the content and when you grind some currency it’s a number you slowly see going up, while when farming a boss for a rare drop there is always this rush of will it drop now. So even then it’s a difference. But if you then look over multiple items it becomes an even bigger difference where with my version you do many different things while in the gold approach there are a few thing you do for everything.

One if more of a life of the land mentality while the other is more or a work for money to buy mentality.

I have no illusion that an MMORPG will not have a form of repetition. While you should mix this with journey’s like quest chains and guaranteed drops and such. The question is what type of repetition. Killing one boss multiple times to get one item to then move on to another boss, is a big difference than doing a few brainless grind (unrelated to the item you want!) to get everything.

See the difference?

Khisanth.2948:

Devata.6589:

You do understand that was an example. I also know it involves more than those charged lodestones. The thing is that there is no resendable / doable way to get those lodestones other than grinding gold.

You can get them through the new map bonus system by doing events in the appropriate map which conveniently also levels your legendary crafting mastery at the same time.

You also need to buy crystals that cost about 1 gold and you can only buy (I think you could also get them by doing SAB, but not at this moment).

What crystals?

The only crystal I am aware of that is related to legendary crafting is the Mystic Crystal and you buy those with Spirit Shards.

Not sure if there is a decent way to farm Globs of Ectoplasm?

World boss train (fractals isn’t bad either). Salvage all the rares.

Some of the T6 materials you cannot farm (maybe that got better with HoT, have not tested that yet).

Same situation as Charged Lodestones. Map bonus system includes these.

You might also need Unidentified Dyes, but where to farm those? As far as I know they can drop from many places (so will end up on the TP) but there are no real ways to in any reasonable rate farm them.

These are a bit tougher. Basically you need to do the same as black lion key farmers and farm the personal story but I don’t think the source of the dyes has a weekly limit(yet?).

I said I was very happy with HoT moving towards the Life of the Land mentality (somehow some people seem to forget that and purely focus on the fact that I say that it’s also holds true that for many things grinding gold is still the only viable option).

Testing the map bonus is high on my to-do list and something I did really look forward to with HoT (and something I praised). So hope you are right and this has now become (the most) viable option.

But your post perfectly displays the point what I am trying to make. HoT was good a step in the right direction, but it’s not there yet.

Duncanmix.5238:

Devata.6589:

You do understand that was an example. I also know it involves more than those charged lodestones. The thing is that there is no resendable / doable way to get those lodestones other than grinding gold.

You also need to buy crystals that cost about 1 gold and you can only buy (I think you could also get them by doing SAB, but not at this moment).

Not sure if there is a decent way to farm Globs of Ectoplasm?

Some of the T6 materials you cannot farm (maybe that got better with HoT, have not tested that yet).

You might also need Unidentified Dyes, but where to farm those? As far as I know they can drop from many places (so will end up on the TP) but there are no real ways to in any reasonable rate farm them.

For those things the only reasonable way to get them is to grind gold and buy them.

Same is true for many items (so the complaint is bigger than legendaries, and some people care more about skins that about stats) in this games, from gem-store items to items you craft yourself. And that is the complaint. It’s not that it’s hard, or that it takes long or that it requires a lot of effort. Those things are to be expected.

The problem is that for many items, grinding gold is a requirement, the only viable / reasonable option. And that is the complaint.

I am also happy with the precursor crafting (It’s for me one of the important elements of HoT, in combination with many difference that should reduce this gold-grind requirement), but if it’s true that there are items required that still require you to grind gold to buy them, the complains about it are also valid.

For someone who has very little knowledge about actually crafting legendary item, u do voice your opinions quite strongly here. I’d generally not reply further cause you seem the type of person to write walls of text without some research, but I would hate that some new player run into this thread and think what u wrote is true.
As someone who crafted 6 legendary weapons so far I can say that big majority of the things you can farm. To name a few:

- charged lodestones ( coe runs)
- t6 mats ( ever heard of troll farm? ever heard of skelk farm? ever heard of laurels?)
- globs? u don’t know how to get globs? by the time u are done with your legendary, u will have enough globs but how would u know that…
- the other guy complaining about 10k ores… guys legendary weapon is not meant to be farmed in a day. Its long term project. It might take 3 or 4 months, or even half year depending how much time u dedicate to it. Its grind and its not for everyone, but so many people whine too much here. Its really long journey and u can craft it however u want. But your legendary journey wont start by whining and camping forum and complaining. Roll up your sleeves, pop those magic find boosters and dig my friends. If u cant do that, cheaper skins are available. Legendary weapons are gonna stay like this and no crying and whining will change that.

I did not do research into the precursor crafting no and even said I did not start that yet just to be clear about that. I also said it’s the subject itself of people not wanting to have to grind gold is more what is why I am interested in this topic. And that I did do my research for.

Unless they recently changed the drop-rate, I DID try (researched) charged lodestones farms. Tried to farm sparks but did not get 1 after 3 hour of killing them (also they disappear based on the event). I also did multiple runs of COE without any charged lodestones.

Not saying they don’t drop there, I know that are places where they drop ‘more’. But if on average you have no drop after multiple runs, and you need 100 / 250 of it then that is not a realistic way of farming them. Especially not when you could brainlessly grind Silverwaste and earn the gold to buy them much faster that way.

So stop saying people don’t do research and then come with a false representation because it looks like you did not do the research yourself.

Or was in your case reading Killthehealersffs comment the research?

Skelk farm? Yes that was a viable option for a short while when they introduced Southsun 2.0 but that got nerfed very fast again making grinding gold a much more reliable option. Laurels is a currency, that is not life from the land. The hole point was here to farm the items directly. Laurels fit the same category as gold.

Did not do the troll farm so cannot say much about that.

I know how to get globs, salvaging rares. I said I don’t know a way to directly farm globs. Even if you use the salvage method that means you need a good way to farm rares. So I know how to get globs but the best way to farm them that I know of, is grinding gold and then buying rares to salvage them.

Fenris Amarok.4052:

Having lots of bags is actually brilliant for a couple of reasons.

1. It saves inventory space during play time. Instead of your inventory getting completely clogged if all the items in bags were just given to you, it puts then all into one unified, stackable item space.

2. It allows mobs to have a ton of drop variety without making their loot tables ridiculous.

Having lots of bags is a great thing. So what if you have to clear your inventory? It would be way worse if you didn’t have bags.

Lol,
1 Is only a problem if mobs drop a lot of different things.. the point you praise at 2.
2 Is bad because it makes it harder to go directly for the stuff you want but are forced into a generic grind where you just get stuff, you then sell so you can then get the items you really want. What basically is the grind so many complain about.

Played other MMO’s with way les bags and had less bag-space problem but that’s because they went for the approach where items are more specifically locked behind a group of mobs and zones and so on.

Jordy.1570:

People dont seem to understand that everything they do is for a reason. The hole game is centered around the gem shop….. Only subsriber based games can give u a more meaningful gaming experience.

watch this to understand:

The Evil Game Design Challenge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_duqqVHTGRA

Maximizing Monetization in Free to Play Games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_deFej73vr8

Once you understand how this works u will hate most of the developers…..

Only subscriber based games and B2P game. F2P games however not. Wasn’t this supposed to be a B2P game?

If the reason they do things is to get people to buy gems (what I agree with you, is a big reason for many decision) instead of the reason creating the best game / most fun experience that it is a bad decision, from a game-play perspective.

And if you do not mind I look at it from a game-play perspective.

Luckily however there is this one model that really forces the developer to focus on making a fun experience and that is the B2P model as only a fun game is wat people will keep buying, expansion after expansion. (Those game are getting paid by expansions / sequels).

So if Anet keeps true on the model they promote the game with, everything is fine. Of course that also means they need to push out an expansion every year to 1,5 year. Not once ever >3 years.

The LS approach only lose people while the expansion created a huge spike in number of players, proving this is also a very profitable model. So it’s really, really time for Anet to do the calculations and come back to B2P. More items in-game, less gem-store and announcing the next expansion within the next 6 months (to be released within a year of that announcement).

Then there is also les need to make things such a (currency) grind. We benefit and they benefit.

Guhracie.3419:

This is a system that’s been pushed back for almost three years now, and a grocery list is the best answer?

Well this is because they are fighting against the limitations of events. They event said that in the livestream about this subject.

Events are not able to do this like traditional quest would so we came with the collection solution.

I am not sure why they don’t just implement traditional quest as well. Again something I ask for since release.

Events are great and allow for things that traditional quest cannot. However, the other way around it also true. Quest can be great and allow for things events can’t.

There is too much focus on quest as if they always are kill 5 of x. Yeah those quest are bad, but there are also events like that and they are just as bad. On the other hand, you can also have quest that are no like that.

The game imho would benefit greatly from a nice mix of quests and events. That would also help to solve this problem.

Not sure why they are so strongly against adding traditional quest, especially now they even came to the conclusion themselves that events have some limitations that quest would be able to fill in.

Maybe it’s a marketing thing as it would make it harder to say the game is so completely different, or because they spoke so negatively of quest during promotion of GW2 that it would be a bid of a fail to now implement them anyway.

I don’t know, but I think the game could benefit from it, if Anet would set these type of reasons for not implementing quests aside, and implement them in good ways where they fit well. I would love to do some nice interesting quest chains, and learn something about all those NPC’s. I have always been more interested in these micro stories then about the big story. It makes you feel more attached to the world and the NPC’s in it.

That would also allow for great precursor journeys that might feel less as a _ grocery list_. While honestly I do not yet know if it feels like a grocery list at this moment. Cannot know that until I play it, but it does look like a grocery list.

Not really on-topic but wanted to add it anyway.

I like that bug, hope they keep it in. If you want more bats you might want to take last year’s Halloween great sword. Take the bat mini and if that still is not enough and you are a Asura then you take the bat wings, that adds another bat to the group. Still not enough?
Still want more, then we need to get tricky. Make sure you’re also a Mesmer and spawn clones. Still not enough? Give the bat tonic to friends and let them use it and stand at your location.

Jana.6831:

You don’t want to get my points, do you?

Edit:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

The next set of precursers won’t drop, but i couldn’t find if they or the ready made will be account bound. The story behind it might also be interesting.

I get your point perfectly, I already said that.

I only added one additional point you seem to not get.

The next precursors are account-bound and that part is great.

However, if making the legendary still involves grinding gold because you need items you cannot get reasonably in another way. Then that part is still bad.

Now if the journey involves epic hard challenging battles, farming some mats in a reasonably way, maybe also getting some rare RNG (but reasonably) account bound item and so on. But at no point forces you to grind gold to buy items you need because you cannot get those items in any other decent way… Then that part is also good.

Jana.6831:

Devata.6589:

Well I also think that it was bad that Legendaries where tradable, when I found that out 3 years ago I was like WTF? Precursors should have a system like now and should indeed also have been account-bound. It just made no sense that they were tradable from a game-play perspective. Luckily Anet eventually came to that same conclusion and made the new ones account-bound. I also agree they cannot now make the first ones account bound as well.

I agree on legendaries and explained the problem with non tradeable precursers – I don’t want a GS, I want a dagger. So I end up filling my bank with stuff I don’t want. I guess that’s why they were tradeable. No idea why legendaries are.

Devata.6589:

However I disagree that only that part is the problem. That part completely devalues the game-play value of the item, and you solve that by making is account-bound.

Not sure if I got you right, but I tried to explain it above: I’m pretty sure they hadn’t had the resources to make a legendary journey at launch.

The rest of what you wrote is an idealization of what legendaries should be, but again: Then they should’ve been “journeys” all along and if anet hadn’t had the resources to make them right at launch, then the only possible solution would’ve been to make them a) drops, b) never get them into the game (since I bet it takes quite a bit to create challenging unique stories for 20? weapons) – what would you prefer?

But since we already have precursers/legendaries in game and a lot of you wanted a “journey” this is the best what “you” could get.

Funny thing is, that you end up with a GS instead of a dagger is because of this system where stuff is dropping generally also resulting in you not being able to directly work towards getting it but being forced to just grind stuff to sell to buy what you want.

If in the first place it would be so that you could work directly towards the item you want (like now with the precursor-crafting) then you would not end up with the GS instead of the dagger. You know, you want the dagger and that boss can drop the dagger so you kill that boss. Not the boss that can drop the GS.

I also want to repeat that I like the precursor crafting. I just don’t know if it’s the best we could get.. If it still required grinding gold for items, because you can’t really get those items any other way then it’s not. As it should be so that you can get those items yourself. And that is true for everything in the game imho not only the precursors.

fireflyry.7023:

Carighan.6758:

Just… stop it, devs. Give me the contents directly.

I’d find this worse.

I can stack bags and chests to the side and worry about them later and carry on playing. If the crap in the bags just dropped freely I’d be dealing with a full inventory every 2 minutes.

But that’s because you are expecting the crap that usually comes from bags. I played some other MMO’s where there where less bags and I had less trouble placing everything in my inventory and it still did feel more rewarding.

Usually in those games there are less items (different types) that drop from one group of enemies. It’s more specific.

You want candy-corn, kill walking candy-corn that you find in another place as where you find bats. And you want those teeth things then you kill bats. You want skulls? Then you kill zombies.

So there you want x, so you go for x and because of that there is also not really this problem of things piling up. In GW2 however it’s done so that all those items drop from all those mobs, just in a lower quantity, or with a lower value per item.

The problem you are afraid of, is related to the way it’s implemented. But when implemented differently you would not have to have this problem. Even better, if you want something specific you can focus on getting that instead of focusing on getting as many bags as possible, hoping the things you want are in there.

DoctorDing.5890:

Tired of loot? That’s just crazy talk. Loot is Life.

Every double-click might bring that thing you have always dreamed of, or something you can sell for more gold than you have ever owned, or, oh wait, it’s another green.

Ah yes! But here is another bag. Just think what it might contain…

I think this is the feeling it is supposed to give. (and the guy who mentioned it was to cut out magic find is also right. That was also a reason for bags and chests)

But with 100 bags that are mainly filled with junk this does not work. A boss that can have a rare drop does have this effect of “Will it drop”, but opening 100 bags does not.

You know what is also bad. When your characters screams it’s something rare, and it’s some junk like ascended mats that are already filling up your bags.

Aodlop.1907:

Chests, bags, caches, sacs, again and again, all the time…
I spend my time looting bags on this game. Sometimes when I open bags, I can even find another bag inside…Toooo muuuuuuch baaaags…

Yeah a really bad system imho. I rather loot items from the thing I kill. That also feels like it makes more sense.

Was talking about this with a guild-member some time ago and he said that he ones did see or read an interview where Anet even talked about this. Apparently ArenaNet hired some shrink type of guy (I don’t know what’s that profession is named) and he came up with this bag approach because people would then feel more rewarded or something. Some psychological effect.

I have not seen that interview or article myself, so don’t know how true it is.

I can only say it does not work like this for me. (So I am different here, or he is not very good at being whatever he is) It’s just annoying to open all those bags that are filled with junk and sometimes have something nice. There is no living towards that moment the cool item can drop, you are just clicking and if you are lucky the item you wants is suddenly in your bag between all other crap. I even find chest at bosses kind of stupid. Why does there suddenly pop up some chest?

I killed that boss, I want to loot HIS body for a chance to get the sword he used in the fight (or some other rare item related to him). That sort of rare drops give me a rush, not opening 500 bags. That gives me carpal syndrome.

Jana.6831:

Devata.6589:

I am also happy with the precursor crafting (It’s for me one of the important elements of HoT, in combination with many difference that should reduce this gold-grind requirement), but if it’s true that there are items required that still require you to grind gold to buy them, the complains about it are also valid.

(I have said it before)
The only way to make you not grind would’ve been if precursers had never been tradeable at all – and at best never been loot. As in the end a thief main might end up with 4 GS precursers. So what should’ve been in game from the start to prevent you from grinding would’ve been the legendary journey as a LS – and I kind of guess that was a bit much to ask for – so in the end what should’ve been so no one had to grind: No legendaries at all.
I think the journey as you (and maybe I as well) want it will come withthe second set of legendaries, right? Not too informed about HoT as I’m not that much into pve and have the legendaries I wanted.

Well I also think that it was bad that Legendaries where tradable, when I found that out 3 years ago I was like WTF? Precursors should have a system like now and should indeed also have been account-bound. It just made no sense that they were tradable from a game-play perspective. Luckily Anet eventually came to that same conclusion and made the new ones account-bound. I also agree they cannot now make the first ones account bound as well.

However I disagree that only that part is the problem. That part completely devalues the game-play value of the item, and you solve that by making is account-bound.

But that is separated from the requirement to grind gold because you need materials you can only (realistically or factually) buy for gold instead of going for them yourself in any reasonable way.

These are two separated, while also related problem.

Making Legendaries and precursors means you know the person did the work himself. Still, if grinding gold to get all the mats is an option or even required it does not say much. He did not have to complete hard challenge, he could just as well just hang around in Silverwaste all time. If the hunt would be implemented like that’s (as far as I know it’s not, it also requires items you have to get yourself).

But then there still is the complain that people need to grind gold for some of the ingredients because there is no viable option to get them directly.

So that are different problems with different reasons that have different solutions.

So I agree with what you say if it comes to the game-play-value. But I also see this other problem of where people don’t like it to grind gold to buy items, because there is no good way to get those items themselves.

Kyle.5931:

Devata.6589:

The person who takes a spot gets the reward, but I think only if they all get found eventually.

The way to solve this problem of not everybody getting a reward, is to simply keep starting the trek once it’s completed.

One thing I noticed with the rush and I think also with the trek is that players only get the reward if the complete mission was a success.

This is extremely good, as it means people care for completing it but also bad as people who need to do it on another time or like with the trek, when you have a trek with many locations but only a few people left who did not yet get a reward they are out of luck.

What I would suggest is that the first time you can only get a personal reward when you complete the full mission, but once it’s completed for the guild then rewards are all personal and it does not matter of that mission is successful.

Talking about rushes.. they are bugged and a pain to play, hope that get fixed this week.

Yes, everyone gets the rewards after all points are found. the best and least troublesome way is to make sure everyone gets theirs the first run.

That only works if you have less or the same number of members as locations. When you have 25 members and need 30 locations that is a problem. 5 Will always miss out and when you start it a second time for them you will need to get 30 locations again, just so those 5 can get the reward.

That is why I suggested, for the first run you will need to complete everything before members get the reward. But once the guild has completed it, it becomes a personal thing. As soon as you then get a location or finish the rush you get your personal reward. That would make much more sense and solve a lot of problems.

Duncanmix.5238:

Devata.6589:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Wow, all you people complaining about the mats needed to craft precursors. Do you have any idea what’s needed to make a legendary?

Yeah, 100 charged lodestones (for some). You can realistically only get them by grinding gold.

I think a lot of people don’t know just how much more gold u need, after u get precursor… 100 charged lodestones is nothing. If all I needed for legendary was 100 charged lodestones and precursor, I’d have 15 legendaries by now… Precursor is not even half of legendary, not even close.

Kind of happy how prec hunt turned out. But I also knew this would happen. People expected it will be bunch of running around, killing some silly weird bosses, dancing and playing pranks…
Also I don’t understand obsession with legendary weapon. I mean its just one skin in a game. GW2 game is full of beautiful, rare, amazing, different skins for every taste. If u don’t have it in you to grind, why just not get any other skin? Why u guys stubbornly want legendary?

Legendary wont make u a better player, a guy with ugliest wooden sword can beat any legendary player if he has skills. Go to spvp and see for yourself. And in pve u can just get exotic or ascendant weapons which are super cheap. People going crazy over hand full of skins in game that literally filled with amazing skins, 1000s of skins… I will never understand this.

You do understand that was an example. I also know it involves more than those charged lodestones. The thing is that there is no resendable / doable way to get those lodestones other than grinding gold.

You also need to buy crystals that cost about 1 gold and you can only buy (I think you could also get them by doing SAB, but not at this moment).

Not sure if there is a decent way to farm Globs of Ectoplasm?

Some of the T6 materials you cannot farm (maybe that got better with HoT, have not tested that yet).

You might also need Unidentified Dyes, but where to farm those? As far as I know they can drop from many places (so will end up on the TP) but there are no real ways to in any reasonable rate farm them.

For those things the only reasonable way to get them is to grind gold and buy them.

Same is true for many items (so the complaint is bigger than legendaries, and some people care more about skins that about stats) in this games, from gem-store items to items you craft yourself. And that is the complaint. It’s not that it’s hard, or that it takes long or that it requires a lot of effort. Those things are to be expected.

The problem is that for many items, grinding gold is a requirement, the only viable / reasonable option. And that is the complaint.

I am also happy with the precursor crafting (It’s for me one of the important elements of HoT, in combination with many difference that should reduce this gold-grind requirement), but if it’s true that there are items required that still require you to grind gold to buy them, the complains about it are also valid.

The person who takes a spot gets the reward, but I think only if they all get found eventually.

The way to solve this problem of not everybody getting a reward, is to simply keep starting the trek once it’s completed.

One thing I noticed with the rush and I think also with the trek is that players only get the reward if the complete mission was a success.

This is extremely good, as it means people care for completing it but also bad as people who need to do it on another time or like with the trek, when you have a trek with many locations but only a few people left who did not yet get a reward they are out of luck.

What I would suggest is that the first time you can only get a personal reward when you complete the full mission, but once it’s completed for the guild then rewards are all personal and it does not matter of that mission is successful.

Talking about rushes.. they are bugged and a pain to play, hope that get fixed this week.

Arrowofchaos.1254:

MiniEquine.6014:

quaniesan.8497:

oh good god, people like to be spoon-fed everything these days. There’s a reason legendary weapon being called ‘legendary’: it’s rare, it’s worth alot of effort, else they are no different than the starter weapons if everyone has one.
Ok, first you were yelling “it’s too rare, give a way to make one, I’m ENTITLED to a precursor”. Now you got a sure way to make one, now it’s “NOT FUN, TOO HARD!” , give me a break. If you are not willing to do all the work, then you are not deserved to wield one, simple as that. Do me a favor, recite the word “legendary” 1000 times before bed each night and contemplate what it means and then make a demand for your… entitlement.
Regarding the TP, no one forces you to use it. If other people do it the TP way, it’s their problem. You have the free will of doing it the “right” way. Don’t make the fake argument that you are forced to use the TP to make a legendary. If you don’t make a legendary effort, no legendary for you. Stop being a spoiled kid at everything, be glad that there is a SURE way at all that you can obtain one without touching the TP. If you resort to the quick way with the TP, it’s your own free-will and laziness, don’t blame on the game mechanics.

Very few people are complaining about the difficulty. In fact, it’s not really difficult, it just costs either a lot of time (not really an issue) or a lot of money (kind of an issue). It’s certainly not difficult for me to run around a map farming nodes or generating gold, but the fact that somebody could just bust out their credit card to exchange gems to gold just to bypass the huge gold gates in the precursor crafting sections really devalues the journey.

You are rewarded with a precursor largely because of persistence, not skill. This is what many are upset by. I’m irked by it too, but I’m still logging in every day to craft my ascended mats because I am going to make at least some of these precursors. I just sincerely hope it doesn’t end up taking years to just make a couple of them though. Don’t forget, you still have to craft the legendaries afterward which take a fair amount of time and gold too.

^this. I don’t think anyone here who are complaining about the ones complaining have seen the collections or the recipes. They’re not difficult, they’re not as advertised. The only difficulty out of the collections (just the collections) is that a lot of them are rng drops and then the difficulty of the recipe is that they’re either timegated or expensive. and what part of that equates to “a legendary journey” if I’m basically doing exactly what I would have done to buy the pre on the tp just with a kittenton more running around. I already have to do that with the rest of incinerator for the t6 and the gift of, I had to do that with the other 4 legendaries I made, I was told this was going to be different and, well, fun, but no this is exactly the same mat grind that is giving me less and less incentive to do it and just buy the stupid thing like I always have been.

Honestly, yeah I am going here by what people say, have not started working on it. For me the discussion itself is more important (as it shows many people prefer getting items themselves over grinding gold to buy) and even if it would not be so bad for precursors it’s still true for many other things in the game.

In fact I am happy with them implementing the precursor crafting as it’s at least a step in the right direction while it still night not be perfect.

RNG drops are no problem.. If there still is a good way to get them (that dungeon drops it, or that boss, or that event) and these type of things you need 1 of. I still think mats are something that should always be easy to get as else farming mats will be boring. The rarity of an item should not come from mats but from single items like a recipe that is very hard to get (but doable) or any type of precursor.

Time gating is always bad imho as it’s fake and in the end does not do anything, it just delays it. And expensive recipe’s. Well that depends, again if you can pretty easily farms the mats and take a long time for a recipe but it is in fact reasonably doable to get that yourself (not to absurd RNG resulting in you having to buy the recipe). Now if it’s expensive because you have to use an items you can only buy for gold (like the example I gave with making bags) then it’s extremely bad.

Basically it’s easy to easy to summarize it. Can you life from the land in a reasonable and doable way and also without grinding for ages to get 100 of x (as mats like that become a currency) then it’s good.

Are you forced to grind for some currency because it’s not possible to get some of the required items reality / doable in the world (or because they become the currency, as happens with hard to get mats) then it’s bad.

And that holds true for getting any items, no matter what. Precursor, legendary, wings, skins, gliders, weapons, toys, mini’s it does not matter.

Want to make it hard to get, make that one item hard (but doable) to get, or place something behind challenging content or behind a (extreem) long quest-chain.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Wow, all you people complaining about the mats needed to craft precursors. Do you have any idea what’s needed to make a legendary?

Yeah, 100 charged lodestones (for some). You can realistically only get them by grinding gold.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Fuji.6284:

You had plenty of time to enjoy the Halloween event but probably chose to play the expansion instead. HoT isn’t going anywhere soon. I knew that and prioritized my time enjoying the festival.

He has a point though.

Halloween went live 10/23. We have notice that it ends tomorrow, 11/4. Two weeks would have gone through server reset on the 6th at the very least.

Not really.

I completely prioritized Halloween, and when those gem-store item timers came up I even shortened my schedule. I did complete all achievements and got my main Halloween goals by now.

But I do not at all feel like I am ready with Halloween and still have stuff to go for.

So even if you calculated this date, it’s still (too) short.

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.

That is the complain they talk about.

So to add to you list..

Grind gold to buy materials. Check

It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.

You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.

You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.

Please elaborate on what those items are or just admit to the hyperbole.

If that was supposed to be a hyperbole you use it wrong.

Example.. well Charged Lodestone? Examples? I should go check out the current drop-rates of everything but I am pretty sure Karka shells and Passion Flowers are one of these mats that you are way better of grinding gold to buy them then to farm the mats yourself because there is no real decent way to get them.

All easy to find:
Charged lodestone – For Spark you need 1. One. Map rewards are a guaranteed option.
Karka Shells – Guaranteed 5 for KQ kill. Karka train racks them up nice and quick, with bloods as a bonus.
Passion Flowers – Guaranteed from blooming passiflora.

Well, I will notice soon enough if these complains are true or not. For me it’s more important that that this way of doing things (grind gold being the only viable option) is still a lot in the game, and these threads show many people disliking it.

I will also repeat it again. I Like the precursor hunt. These parts where you basically still have to grind gold not, but for the rest I do.

It’s exactly what this game needs.

I am more interested in this thread as it shows that there are in fact many people who prefer this life of the land mentality over the grind gold to buy what you need.

And sadly, for many items in the game that still is the only viable option, making things to grindy and scaring away people.

There are recipe’s that require 250 charged lodestones but there is no way to farm them, and especially when you need 250 that part should be easy or it will feel like a boring grind. You want to make the item special, then require 1 item that is extremely hard to get instead of 250 that are very hard to get.. so hard that grinding gold to buy them is the real viable option.

If you make a backpack, you are required to buy an item for 6 gold so even if you make gold yourself you are required to get gold first.

They do there best to put the best items in the gem-store and the only in-game option to get those is to grind gold.

So this is a problem that extents beyond precursors, but what this thread does is proving that many peoples dislike that approach. Now if you don’t want to scare those people away again you need to stop with this approach.

ArenaNet clearly did acknowledge this problem as they did a lot of things with HoT to solve it. For example making mats better farmable (linking them to map events) and by implementing the precursor farming, but at the same time the problem is not yet solved completely proven by that same precursor crafting and the many new gem-store items. There are many of these examples and they all add up.

While clearly a huge part of the player-base (at this moment) dislikes that.

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.

That is the complain they talk about.

So to add to you list..

Grind gold to buy materials. Check

It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.

You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.

You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.

Please elaborate on what those items are or just admit to the hyperbole.

If that was supposed to be a hyperbole you use it wrong.

Example.. well Charged Lodestone? Examples? I should go check out the current drop-rates of everything but I am pretty sure Karka shells and Passion Flowers are one of these mats that you are way better of grinding gold to buy them then to farm the mats yourself because there is no real decent way to get them.

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.

That is the complain they talk about.

So to add to you list..

Grind gold to buy materials. Check

It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.

You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.

You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.

Guilho.1265:

As an MMO player who doesn’t like platform, I great dislike jump puzzles. For me MMOs are RPG/combat oriented. But if GW2 have or not jumpe puzzles I used to not care…

But with new Mastery points (central Tyria) mechanic, the game requires you to do jump puzzles to progress. I never hated an MMO as I’m hating playing GW2 now. It’s very frustrating to play a game that forces you to play a way it’s not the core gameplay.

I would love to see JP’s unlocks special rewards. Having some mastery points locked behind them is a step in the right direction. Anyway, there are other ways to get them as well so don’t really get the complain.

Draknar.5748:

So Anet made it so you can get precursors without RNG, it just takes a significant amount of legwork.

The community decides, nope, I don’t want to do all of that legwork, I want my precursor without RNG, and without having to do legwork outside.

Complete utter nonsense.

The community says.. “I still need to grind (Silverwaste) to buy the items I need”. That is something else.

Many people here who complained about the precursor crafting stated it was ok te be hard, it just should not be the same grind.

Then many of those defending say they “Just want it for free”. Pretty much the same argument I have seen for 3 years here on the forum with these types of discussions and it’s a straw-man. You are making your own truth by suggesting they ask for something that in fact they do not ask for.

That does not proof your point because you are dismissing something nobody is saying in the first place.

But yeah you are right.. It would be bad if they make it easy, and Anet also never said it would be easy. So for those who want it to be easy (what is close to nobody.. who complains about the grind) they are wrong.

So there you go, you proven the point to.. well to those wanting is easy. To bad they are not here in this thread.

chemiclord.3978:

If you make it too easy to acquire (that doesn’t require much grind), then you get the legions of players who already have a legendary throwing a fit (imagine the “Twice-Told Legend” fury x 1000).

But they couldn’t make it too difficult either. Tie precursor hunts with something difficult like raid challenges and you get legions moaning that it’s “too hard” and “not fun.”

I’m not convinced there is a solution that will satisfy even a simple majority of players here.

Yet the question is not to make it easy. They ask to remove the grind for gold to buy the items… because then they could just as will buy the precursor. But that does not mean you could replace that with some other hard content or farming one specific item or something like that.

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

slamfunction.7462:

Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm

That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.

And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.

All it shows is that far too many people thought that they could do an event, kill a vet spider, commune with a hero point and have a 900gold weapon dropped in their lap. The delusion is strong.

This is the default, but untrue response you get in a lot in these topics. In fact, if anything, they are asking for the opposite.

They want a journey or a challenge.. not a brainless gold-grind.

So tell me Mr. not-so-brainless – what would a journey be that doesn’t tank the economy?
Doing events? – check
Crafting things? – check
Going to out of the way places? – check
Killing strange foes and finding new loot? – check
Having to actually invest some shred of time into it so everyone doesn’t rush it within 10 days and simultaneously nuke the entire ingame economy? -check

The only gold you seem to need is 5g to unlock then some cash for thermo reagents and ancillary things. But you want it NOW and don’t want to put in effort, so you complain gold grind.

Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.

That is the complain they talk about.

So to add to you list..

Grind gold to buy materials. Check

It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.

Grim Jr.8946:

the funny thing is im sure if they did something like all the mats needed you cant buy from the tp but is still “gated” as you guys say it is but you have to farm it for like 7 months people would still complain and say it’s too long bla bla people just want their precursors handed to them

If you had to grind mats the complains would indeed be the same as it’s then basically the same as grinding gold. Mats are something that should indeed be easy to get.

however putting in some other extremely hard to get items and people did not complain so much as they DO NOT want their precursors to be handed to them. They just do not want this currency-grind. (In you example, the mats become the new currency)

thehipone.6812:

Devata.6589:

slamfunction.7462:

Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm

That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.

And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.

All it shows is that far too many people thought that they could do an event, kill a vet spider, commune with a hero point and have a 900gold weapon dropped in their lap. The delusion is strong.

This is the default, but untrue response you get in a lot in these topics. In fact, if anything, they are asking for the opposite.

They want a journey or a challenge.. not a brainless gold-grind.

Did this already move up a little in priority? I rather make a timer based on the API then on basic times.

I don’t know if this is still true, but some time ago I noticed that many of the public timers often where not very accurate, so it looks like the timers in fact are not always as they should be. Getting the actual timers should solve that.

slamfunction.7462:

Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm

That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.

And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.

Well them nerving dungeons is pretty bad.. Mainly because it was the least braindead gold grind there was in the game. Sure might be better for the economy, but the economy focus is already troubling for the game-play.

Still I could imagine they would reduce COF P1 to 50 silver but that is 1 gold 5 silver now according to wiki?
On the other hand, the Aetherpath was already way under rewarded and they reduced that from 3 gold to 2 gold.

Better they had left the 3 gold there and even upped the drop-rate for those weapons a little. So at least there nerving would result in a better balance. That would then also mean a few paths would indeed even get upped a little. But they just took away some gold everywhere.

VaLee.5102:

Everyone who is defending the precursor crafting is missing the point.

You have 2 choices atm:
1) farm gold and buy precursor from TP
2) farm gold, farm mats, farm trophies, invest kittenloads of time in it and get a precursor

The final price is more or less the same with small variations.

What would you choose?

And if only the ‘grind gold’ would be removed from option 2 (by making the items better available in-game), a lot more people would be happy.

this would also hold truth for a lot of other things in the game, not only precursor crafting.

One of the things I notice in this game vs many other MMORPG’s is that high tier mats can in fact by hard to get and might realistily not be farmable. (same is true for other items as well). Usually you see that high tier mats are in fact easy to get, they are just in high level maps. What reduce the feeling of grind because you do need many of those mats. (They are placed for example in nodes, that keep spawning and are ordered in such a way that you can run in a circle farming the nodes until you have what you need)

In those games the time-gate / thing that is hard to get usually is a precursor item / recipe. Still there is a direct approach to getting it. It drops form some specific boss or in a dungeon and might even be account-bound.

Both ways make sure the items are rare but one feels like a grind and results in people grinding gold in the most efficient way (playing only a small part of the game) while the other results in people going all over the world to do the content they need to get that one item they need. Farming mats is just a side activity that takes you a few min.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

“We’ve reached a point where these will come bundled together in larger, less frequent updates”. Way to premature. Many people still experience regular game-crashes.

They are focusing too much on keeping on the schedule instead of delaying that a week or so, so they can first get things realty fixed.

I have a feeling it has to do with the Pro League Open Qualifier. They might have contracts about this already, but in reality the Pro Leagues should be even more reason to delay the schedule and fix things first. How will the public react if the best team loses because one of their members crashed? Some might not even be able to qualify because some of their members have a lot of these crashes.

I really like all the announcements here and can’t wait for them to come, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s not smart to do that while the game is still so extremely unstable for many players.

I’m 100% sure the people working on the crashes are very different from the people making the PvP leagues, or the raids for that matter. Other teams creating more content isn’t going to stop the people from working on the crashing. They’re simply different people.

Yeah, I know that. I did not say I expected the bug-fixes would stop coming in because the focus would move away from that.

Not sure where you got that idea from.

I just say that I think it’s better to have the bugs / crashes solved before putting in new content and possibly even adding in new / more bugs with the new content.

It’s frustrating to do MKS and the game crashes, but it’s even more frustrating when that happens in an important PvP match or during a raid.

So if it takes the months to track down all the problems, you think we should not have raids before then? Or leagues.

Because people wouldn’t be up in arms about that.

Realistically they really have no choice but to add the content.

If this takes months there is a way bigger issue.

No, if they take 1 extra week, one should hope they would have also fixed much of those crashes, especially if all effort go’s into that what is possible because you have an extra week.

The other teams can use that time to add in those functionality’s on their “if we have time over” list (A famous list all dev’s have but almost never come around doing) and to make sure there are less bugs in the new content.

That would likely give a better end result then when they introduce new content that for sure will also introduce new bugs that add to the bile of bugs they still needed to fix (like those crashes) and will take away from the enjoyment of that new content.

Gene Archer.8560:

Guhracie.3419:

All this talk about banks and loans in order to purchase a house, as well as getting lectured about economics is supremely depressing. I know how the real world works. Games are supposed to be a place to set that aside; a place where we get to dream and achieve and have fun.

Honestly, if making a precursor is analogous to taking out a loan from a bank, there’s something deeply wrong with the system. There’s nothing fun about having a mortgage.

I don’t think anyone expected ANET to mail them a precursor for purchasing HoT, but I do think people expected the “legendary journey” to be fun. At the very least, more than just an endless grocery list.

This is what happens when you let an economist run the show.

Yeah sadly to much focus on that. Their economy guy is also active on the forum and he is a nice guy and I appreciate it a lot that he takes the time to talk to the player base.

I also think he knows a lot about the economy. But the problem is that this controlling of the economy (in combination of trying to earn money with items vs the game) does not benefit the game itself. Well only for those who like to grind gold.

From an economic standpoint everything makes a lot of sense. Economy does not work with a “life of the land” mentality, it works with currency that you control with currency skins (And we have a lot of both on this game). But many games want to experience this life of the land experience. Also shown by the many threads like this one.

These topics also spiked with the release of HoT, something I in a way predicted. I said this grind gold to buy what you want needed to go (or be way less) with HoT because those that got scared away by this mentality would come back with HoT. And you do not want to scare them away again as they won’ come back.

2 months or so ago the major part of the players base (that cared about these things) where the grinders so you did see less of these topics. Now with HoT also the ones that don’t are back, and that is a big number in MMORPG games.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

“We’ve reached a point where these will come bundled together in larger, less frequent updates”. Way to premature. Many people still experience regular game-crashes.

They are focusing too much on keeping on the schedule instead of delaying that a week or so, so they can first get things realty fixed.

I have a feeling it has to do with the Pro League Open Qualifier. They might have contracts about this already, but in reality the Pro Leagues should be even more reason to delay the schedule and fix things first. How will the public react if the best team loses because one of their members crashed? Some might not even be able to qualify because some of their members have a lot of these crashes.

I really like all the announcements here and can’t wait for them to come, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s not smart to do that while the game is still so extremely unstable for many players.

I’m 100% sure the people working on the crashes are very different from the people making the PvP leagues, or the raids for that matter. Other teams creating more content isn’t going to stop the people from working on the crashing. They’re simply different people.

Yeah, I know that. I did not say I expected the bug-fixes would stop coming in because the focus would move away from that.

Not sure where you got that idea from.

I just say that I think it’s better to have the bugs / crashes solved before putting in new content and possibly even adding in new / more bugs with the new content.

It’s frustrating to do MKS and the game crashes, but it’s even more frustrating when that happens in an important PvP match or during a raid.

Btw, just like to add that I do like the scavenger hunt they implemented, and I will start doing it (until I reach a point where I might need to start grinding gold to buy the items I need).

But I also think something is wrong if you do get to that point where you have to grind gold to buy mats, and / or if grinding gold to buy a precursor in total still is the most efficient way.

“We’ve reached a point where these will come bundled together in larger, less frequent updates”. Way to premature. Many people still experience regular game-crashes.

They are focusing too much on keeping on the schedule instead of delaying that a week or so, so they can first get things realty fixed.

I have a feeling it has to do with the Pro League Open Qualifier. They might have contracts about this already, but in reality the Pro Leagues should be even more reason to delay the schedule and fix things first. How will the public react if the best team loses because one of their members crashed? Some might not even be able to qualify because some of their members have a lot of these crashes.

I really like all the announcements here and can’t wait for them to come, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s not smart to do that while the game is still so extremely unstable for many players.

Lawton Campbell.8517:

There isn’t currently, but it’s something I’d like to see done. There’s a whole slew of unreleased guild-related endpoints that have bitrotted a bit since HoT launched. I’ll be looking over them later this month and see if I can get them working again and deployed.

The current in-dev implementation doesn’t expose the new resources but I’ll see if I can change that.

Yeah that would be great. Have been following the API things mainly for the guild-related options. If possible also return the guild and guild-bank log.

This would allow us to store it in our own DB and keep better track of things.

DavyMcB.1603:

Labjax.2465:

DavyMcB.1603:

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

Economics is gated behind classes that cost money. They are P2W.

In all seriousness though, it is absolutely, positively ridiculous to expect a bunch of people playing an MMO to understand how economies work. People come from all walks of life and all jobs and talents. No doubt the people who are ignorant of economics have some skill or talent that you don’t.

Be proud of your knowledge of economics, but don’t put down others for not knowing, is what I’m driving at.

I know. I got carried away. But I mean, some people are really refusing to understand even if you shove it in their throat.

I think a lot of people understand how it works, but that is not the point. People want the ability to life of the land, basically getting separated from the economy as total. This is a game, they want some experience and that is irrelevant to economy.

But then they run into the problem that some items they need cannot be earned directly and so they pretty much get forced into the grind-gold and buy.

When you then put effort into the equation it turns out that some ways (usually grinding some currency) are better to earn an item, then others. So here the economy go’s wrong and can’t be compared to the economy you had at school because you are dealing with scenario’s here that do not exist in reality.

See this example, and see gold as “a reward”, not the currency in game.
Mining for gold in the real world, is (as long as there is a ongoing demand for gold) the most efficient way to get gold, as the price of gold is based (in combination with demand) on that.

However trying to compare that to GW2’s world is like still having this mining for gold, however people will also randomly find gold all the time at their desk job.. just coming from nowhere.
Once in a while somebody might find some gold laying on his desk or whatever job he does.. and it does not come from mining, it just appears there. It’s very rare like one in 10.000 but with millions of people working it adds up. Many of these people might not be interested in the gold, so now the market gets flooded with gold not only from the mining but also from people just getting it.
This then results in the fact that mining might not become the most efficient way anymore. In fact for many of the items in GW2 there is not even this mine.. It’s just hoping you find it at your desk job or buying it and for some items even that is not possible, you can only buy them.

People however don’t only find gold, they also find all types of other materials at their desk. So now going to the office as much as possible is the most efficient way to earn money to buy the things you want other people found at their desk.

This is basically how it works at GW2, and your desk-job is the ‘grind’ in GW2. So it’s nice you did get some economy lessons but then you simply did learn what was told, not the logic behind it meaning you fail to apply it to this fictional world that works completely different.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Christonya.3856:

The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.

This is your main problem. You have the option of playing the game, but you choose not to, so you feel “forced” to use the TP. All you need to do is level to 80, go to Orr and mine Mithril nodes. If you want Iron, you go to a lower level map, and mine nodes. The TP was designed to allow players to trade with one another, thus allowing for the movement of goods game wide. TP players are doing their part by offering to sell materials that other players need. You, being a player in need or materials, can get them faster buy paying the prices listed on the TP. If the prices are too high, the other option is to mine or gather yourself.

This is true for some mats but not for others.

Anet please see all these posts about people wanting direct ways of getting items instead of having some currency in the way. They now pop up a lot mainly related to the precursors because 1 people who don’t like to grind currency did come back for HoT and 2 people who did not like this grind gold to buy are the most interested in the scavenger hunts.

I have been spamming you guys about this problem for over 2 years and you did eventually realize it was a problem, making some progress in HoT, but it still need more works. It’s a mentality change we need at Anet HQ where they want people to be able to work directly work towards items and also stop putting in more and more currencies because that is the best way to balance things / control the economy. Game-play should be more important than balancing the economy.

Grinding gold as an option is fine, but in an MMORPG there should always be the Life of the Land ability. That is how a huge part of MMORPG players like the content. Many of who did come (back) to HoT. Don’t scare them away again (again).

@Christonya.3856
It’s indeed still a problem however some steps have been made in HoT. It’s for example now better possible to farms for specific mats. On the map you can see what mats drop in what maps. Doing events in those maps should help you. I have not yet tested how efficient that is, but maybe that will work good enough for you being able to get the mats directly instead of buying them with gold you grinded.

Last day of Halloween (already and to soon). Anybody found an of the other decoration?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

For those that would rather not buy specific items from others that do the content because it would be more rewarding, why don’t they just do the content? Then, both sides of the camp can be satisfied.

Or is it that they don’t want anyone to have said rewards if they didn’t do the content themselves?

1. For many of the items there is no content to do. There is not that dungeon that drops the item. At best it’s some world-boss that gets farmed resulting is extremely low-drop rates.

2. Doing “what you like” or “the content” is usually punishing yourself as doing whatever rewards the best gold is way more efficient. Let’s take the word bosses. Farming the boss that drops it will usually get you the gold to buy it sooner then that the item drops. It should be the other way around. But that’s because it’s content that gets grinded because of overall good loot. Farming sparks for charged lodestones is slower then grinding gold and buying them. Grinding gold to buy the TA Aetherblade weapons, is faster than farming TA Aetherblade.

3. Simply the fact that you can get it in any other way devalues the item. It removes the content related value from the item. It does not stand for anything anymore. It’s not a token for killing that boss.

“Or is it that they don’t want anyone to have said rewards if they didn’t do the content themselves?” That as well of course, as by allowing that it removes that value I talked about.

Tasao.4623:

Gaile Gray.6029:

We wanted to let you know that this year’s Halloween Festival will be ending on Wednesday, November 4.

We hope you enjoyed the celebration! I know I had a blast!

Unless Endless Batwing Brew drops are upped or a forge recipe is added to convert the normal brews to endless brews, almost no one is going to have time to farm the absurd 25,000 bags needed in time. You could add a week to the event and that’d still be the case.

There’s no reliable way to earn the tonic with cobs or lesser batwing tonics, so you’re forced to grind bags or grind gold. So much for that mighty anti-grinding manifesto 3 years ago, huh?

While I completely agree this should have been the case for the ‘precursor’ for Nightwing (what now happens to be that tonic) it’s also bad to change that now as you then are basically screwing over everybody who did spend all the gold it is cost because of how it works now.

But in general this is something Anet has to work on. If you make special rewards, or let people craft things then the precursor item, or the special item itself should be something you can effectively directly work towards. It could have been a drop from the MKD with 1/5th of the drop-rate of the tattered wings (while you then still have the problem that this is a temporary event) or a reward from some scavenger hunt, or a reward from some hard challenge you have to overcome.

It should not all just be grind. For most items in GW2 it’s just grind gold and buy, because there is no real way to directly work towards getting these items. Instead of specific rewards behind specific content you can directly work towards. Anet made some progress in this with HoT but it’s still the biggest issue for GW2. And al the gem-store items that you can also only get by gold does also not help to solve this problem. Let’s hope Anet makes more steps with solving this and we will see better methods of getting new high prestige items.

Anyway, back to the Halloween end date.

I had hoped they extended it a little longer. (Still do)

Randulf.7614:

You’re right Devata, however in their defence, the official release page did say just under two weeks.

I’m hoping Wintersday will have a good run this year. I know it starts on Dec 15th, but hopefully it will run into Jan for a bit too. Keep that old Xmas spirit going! Working right up til 9pm Xmas EVe then 2 days off and back to the grind….gonna need it!

Well I have always liked the Halloween festival the best in GW2. It’s right up there with SAB for me. Wintersday is nice, but just a little lower. This year is especially good as they did bring back the the Mad King Dungeon, just as I like it. Something I wanted back from the second year on… Lets hope it returns next year. (In addition, the dungeon also had content specific rewards, exactly like I want it)

Anyway, then it turned out it was only two weeks what was kinda short.. it will be gone for another year. Not instead of 2 weeks it’s even less. People have not even been able to get the Halloween decoration.

Completely separated from that, there are all the crash problems. It’s much better to get that fixed before adding more stuff in because they want to keep their schedule. Forget the schedule fix all the problems first instead of likely introducing even more and keep us busy with the Halloween event.

Imho that would be the most logical solution here.

….

And while typing this I was doing MKS.. of-course 3 quarters in the game crashed. Losing my stacks, getting nothing. And there is another reason why it should be extended.