Guild Wars 2

Sequel.8397:

i feel like many of our finishers are limited to leaping and projectile finishers. what if we added blast finisher to reckless dodge? IMO it wouldnt break the class since although we can might stack, we’d be wasting dodge rolls in order to time it with our fire field finisher, and waste endurance and risking damage after. what do you guys think.

I like that, very much. This would not only reinforce currently neglected bow builds with Strength (GS/Bow, Hambow…), but also offer interesting combo synergies with team mates, at an acceptable cost.

+1!

Caine.8204:

Scott.7163:

Don’t add anything new, just nerf them and make them crit. Condition/precision/ferocity stats go.

Nerf them and make them crit?

Nerf their damage by 50%!

Then give them 100% chance to crit for 50% more damage!

Net = no change.

There’s actually a big change: you need to commit to condition/precision/ferocity stats to maximize your damage output, i.e. you cannot have damage AND the sustain brought by other stats (toughness, vitality, healing power).

Since you mention melee weapons, I suppose you don’t run a longbow, so probably equip something like a GS with X/Shield, with marauder/berserker gear? In other words, something fragile but with high burst potential?

With such a setup, against a good thief, the fight usually becomes a mind game. You have two condition invulnerabilities which you can use: the superior Berserker Stance, and to a lesser extent the (debuffable) Resistance from the Healing Signet. So basically, you want to bait the opponent’s burst, pop one of the two invuls, possibly with stability (if the thief has already used Steal), and counter with your own burst. Naturally, a good thief will try to bait you in using these invuls (and Endure Pain as well), kiting while they’re up, and attacking once they’re gone. Thus timing is quite important in such fights.

Aside from your invulnerabilities, you can (must) take advantage of fast weapon rotations, leveraging Fast Hands, to regularly cleanse conditions with Brawler’s Recovery. Many combos involve swapping weapons, so you’ll naturally remove the blind, provided it’s not covered with other conditions.You may also ignore the blind when you have skills which hit many times (so only the first hit will miss), e.g. Whirlwind or Hundred Blades.

Fighting a mesmer and a thief together is… well, difficult, if not impossible. Fighting a mesmer alone is already difficult, because the class is a natural kiter, the greatest counter to a warrior. Unless the mesmer has poor skills, focus the thief first, because a good burst can down him instantly. If the two opponents are synchronized though, then you don’t really stand a chance. Staying alive is always the better option, so if possible don’t engage such fights.

EDIT: I didn’t mention it, but you must also make sure you know how blind is applied by the opponent (black powder, traited shatters, projectile finishers…), so as to react / anticipate accordingly.

Hi,

Velimere.7685:

Also, feel free to eat your own words after completing this test. Your intentionally ignorant responses to me have been of the utmost offensiveness to say the least.

If he’s wrong about Last Stand (I don’t know nor care about that bug), given your writing skills, it would have been easy to reply to him in a friendly way and convince him to test hypotheses right away. He’s actually a knowledgeable and helpful fellow.

Yet, your replies progressively included harshness and contempt, both in content and style, like a scholar admonishing children, rather than an adult explaining things to another adult.

This is of course a perception, not a fact. That it would have earned you a place in my killfile, should the forum provide for one, is however a fact, not a perception. Feel free to consider that I’m a trigger-happy intolerant person and forget about it.

I want more leaps! GS #5, Rifle #4, Mace F1 could be turned into leaps of various range and damage (but the Sword #2 type, not the Bull’s Charge one).

I want to play Cleansing Ire + Rousing Resilience and Last Stand + Rousing Resilience, as I did before the June patch!

I want a lot of other stuff, but these shall do for now

Winning conquest is about allocating the right amount and nature of resources on objectives (planning and executing node management with synergistic classes/builds) and the performance of the allocated resources (players’ ability to fight, control or disturb the opponent’s momentum).

In other words, there are many factors that can lead to suboptimal play, and seeing a combination of these at the beginning of a match is sometimes enough to tell you’re gonna lose, whatever efforts you pour in the game:

• Players on your team focus on the wrong objectives: going/dying to far, doing secondary objectives without having node control, multicapping a node, not defending a conquered node, not reacting to enemy moves (watching crossovers…), engaging in outnumbered fights, failing at +1’ing…
• At least one player is technically below average, i.e. does not master his/her class/build as well as our opponents. You’re then fighting a 4.5v5, and numbers do matter. It’s not really the fault of the lacking person here, but rather a matchmaking issue.

I never AFK (only when we’re in 5v4, to allow for a fair 4v4), and always go at full throttle, even when I know we’re gonna lose. You gain more by fighting and losing (some possible tactical enlightenment) than by not fighting and sitting on your hands.

Hotjoin could do with some more rules, for sure. The ability to join a game immediately is great, but people abuse it way too much (maintaining 4v5, switching teams…).

Unranked/ranked games have queue times, and waiting 3 minutes while doing nothing is pretty stupid already. And when you finally join a game, more than often you get unbalanced games, 4v5, people insulting one another or whining, people NOT playing Conquest (zerging, rushing secondary objectives, not planning/managing nodes control…).

There’s a lot of improvement to be made, in all types of arenas.

When running in an organized guild raid, I think I’d take the Defiant Stance, because there’s already a lot of altruistic healing and condition clearing in the group, and you might take advantage of the stance invulnerability in many situations.

When running in a regular zerg, I think I’d stick to the Healing Signet, always a solid default choice.

I was a bit surprised at the comments pointing too many useless dodges, so I watched the video again. While it’s true he dodges a lot, and sometimes only for aesthetic reasons, I found that his gameplay was actually rather inspired.

I’ve seen:

• Regular dodges to avoid taking damage (“evaded”),
• Jump-dodges when crippled, for better repositioning,
• Missed dodges on a foe animation (the opponent uses skill that does not hit, but Vaanns dodges on the tell),
• Dodges “in the air” against stealthed opponents, trying to read the flow,
• Dodges “in the flow” against certain classes, when you know a certain move is likely to come as a result of a skill rotation or positioning (e.g. against whirlwind),
• Dodges towards the opponent to trigger Reckless Dodge,
• Dodges to make sure Stick and Move is active (especially with Signet of Stamina).

I liked the video.

A class design defines a mechanics, which makes available (among other things) a certain number of skills in exchange of CD and/or resources. So far, these mechanics multiply the number of skills either with a weapon swap (warriors, guardians, thieves, rangers, mesmers, necros, revenants) or with a special management (elems, engis).

The warrior has been designed with weapon swapping. The problem is that weapon swapping isn’t enough to make the class competitive in a player-vs-player environment, because the class design principles are too weak:

• The warrior gains only one additional skill, gated behind adrenaline and CD, which limits the skill rotations which can be leveraged against other classes,
• The warrior has been made easily kitable and hittable, blessed with high HP and armor to be able to resist, but the current damage and mobility levels have become too high for this compensation to suffice. And the warrior mechanics cannot be used defensively.

Making fast weapon swap baseline would mean that the underlying paradigm of the warrior would change. That is possible, but maybe too difficult to manage in regards of balancing. Also, rather than implementing fast weapon swapping, they could consider enriching the warrior mechanics (e.g. adding a permanent F2 skill) – this would alleviate the pressure on fast weapon swapping. But again, probably too difficult / costly.

In the end, the class will probably be balanced with new super traits/skills (like we got the Healing Signet or Cleansing Ire). My bet for the next one is “Get Resistance when bled/burnt/tormented” – or maybe on physical skills usage, to revitalize physical skills (something like Demonic Defiance or Wilderness Knowledge).

It seems you had quite some fun during the beta WE! Nice video, I enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing.

I agree with your analysis of the skill: I don’t think it’s bugged, but its damage should probably be toned down a bit

nicknamenick.2437:

Btw Obindo, have you ever done a duel with Vaans? I have yet seen any better warrior then you in pvp. Vaans is more wvw player, he may be good but there are some difference between wvw and pvp duelling.

Although I appreciate that PvP provides some “fairness” in the fights by normalizing gear, I think I still prefer the WvW fights more:

• Stats being higher and food bringing more effects make for more savage fights,
• WvW builds don’t need to incorporate alien elements, such as node control (or support or whatever), and can focus solely on fighting the opponent.

In terms of players’ skills, I think the best fighters are the ones playing the most game modes, because the approaches and tactics in use in each game mode broaden their perspective of the fights. Players doing only one mode (PvP, WvW or PvE) will necessarily be exposed to fewer kinds of situations, thus decreasing their mastery.

I’ve always be puzzled, for instance, by many PvP players constantly staying in or crossing AoEs, poorly justifying that “you must prevent the decap”, and eventually dying of 30k burning damage… experienced PvE players wouldn’t make these basic fighting mistakes – quite an amusing paradox.

As Obindo as said, warriors can use Heightened Focus, Frenzy and the sigil of Rage to obtain a good access to Quickness.

The hard control you faced was probably brought by mace/shield, a good weapon combination which provides two blocks (traited to reflect), two stuns and one daze.

GS+mace/shield is a known berserker setup, especially good in 1v1s. The build should however not bring any immobilization, although a player might equip Bolas (and trait it using Peak Performance) in place of one of the defensive stance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeRjMdQbIWFCehAnIGKCKtLi+owGgHIAwSoFSBA-TpBCwAbOCAAeAAYOEAXOBA52fIcZAA

Since a few days/weeks, there’s been a lot of tiny “resync” lags, where characters I see around are skipping steps every half second or so, and my skills don’t show in their entirety… This makes fights quite difficult to play, especially when you’re supposed to watch tells and act on them. Honestly, I’ve been shutting the game off more often because of that.

This happens in WvW and PvP for sure – not sure about PvE (not doing a lot of it). I’ve tried and lowered my settings to no avail. My Internet connection seems fine (as seen in my other online games or software). This is quite frustrating, all the more everything has been running so smoothly for many months/years. If you have some advice on some settings I could tweak, I’d be grateful. I’m sorry that I cannot bring more information to solve this issue, I realize it’s pretty vague, and simply hope for some miracle tip.

ozzy.8059:

well i am finding i cant kill anything lolz… i daze them they stunbreak.. 100 blades just cant do enough damage unless i have a buddy to lock them down. its just kite for days and kill me faster then i can kill them as i chase after them hitting auto attack..

I think that the best way to fight a foe begins with understanding how he thinks. If you haven’t already, then I’d suggest you invest a couple of hours playing an elem.

Here’s a possible menu:

1. Study the celestial D/D build, skills and traits, so that you get familiar with what an elem can do (direct damage, condition damage, mobility, soft control, hard control, blocks, invulnerabilities, cleansing, boon getting). Don’t forget to check out the video guide.
2. Train and stack might against a golem, until you’re able to maintain 25 stacks. Think only about stacking might, i.e. laying out fire fields and exploding in them (switching attunements, using skills, dodging in Earth…).
3. Get some light fights as an elem, so that you progressively get a feel about your skills, rotations, timing, and more generally, when to switch affinity. Start with HotM NPCs, then move on in hotjoin (avoid outnumbered fights, though).
4. Request for a few spars against a fellow warrior. Ask him to not go all out immediately, so that you can progressively understand how you get beaten. Then try variations: ask him to only defend, ask him to only attacks, and so forth. Don’t forget to ask for his feedback.
5. Switch back to warrior. Likewise, get a few spars against a fellow elem, then hop back in arenas, and test your enlightening!

Good luck.

And the taunt is bugged as hell too… I’ve just faced a ranger, and the taunt made my camera flicker/shake like mad… It was completely unplayable. I’m not going into another arena until they fix that ****

The ranger taunt post-patch has become seriously bugged. When I’m taunted, even my allies get selected… and my camera is messed up so bad, it shakes so much you can only see a blur of colors on the screen… It’s completely unplayable against

Strategist.6132:

Evan Lesh.3295:

There are two check boxes to choose whether you want to play on stronghold or conquest under the Unranked/Ranked buttons.

I just want to say thank you for this! This is a great addition! Another thing you might want to add, is a special tickbox for courtyard maybe? Since that is also different from the other modes.

I would love that. Currently, you cannot really play for CY, because not only is the map unlikely to pop and be voted for, but also you’re unlikely to be prepared to it, composition and build wise (which leads to the map being even less voted for, in a vicious circle).

If there was a dedicated tickbox, then we could not only devise a team comp and focus on learning the best strategies/tactics, but also be paired with players willing to play the mode (and thus not having to bear with the usual AFKers who don’t give a **** about other players).

Drazerg.8956:

4. “Quality of Life, Lord HP”
As it sais above, for clutch times where both lords are fighting, I would appreciate knowing how much health both teams have so it feels less Random.
It would also have other uses such as when my lord is underattack, I can see if I NEED to go home, or can leave it to my teammates.

It’s there already. The team header, at the top of your screen, has two circles, the circumference of which indicating the health level of the current obstacle (door or lord).

Nice video, these are fine fights. Well done!

You seem a bit bitter, if you could rather tell us what problem you have when you fight with a warrior, your class/build, then maybe we could provide some guidance and tactics so that you emerge victorious in your duels… As a matter of fact, there’s a lot of misinformation in your post, a warrior can hit hard for sure, but has lots of serious weaknesses you can exploit.

But I don’t think you’ll receive any constructive post after so much QQ, whether you’re serious or simply trolling, so you’ve basically just wasted an opportunity to get acquainted with a class community, and ultimately become better at the game.

Hi there,

I’ve been playing the following PvP build lately. I find it quite efficient in the current meta, and it will be buffed next patch, with the all the love we’ll get for the Shield and Rousing Resilience.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRBMhd21ITHUGideglHwJihrgSzhWvFyVIrLBMAu6UH-TpBBwAAOCAdOBAeeAAV3fYzBBocZAA

Principles:

• Berserker gear, good pressure with the Axe AA, two strong bursts with Axe F1 and sword #3 (can be chained),
• Decent control, with some immobilize, cripple and stun,
• Decent mobility, with Sword #2,
• Excellent altruistic condition clear with soldier shouts and traited warhorn,
• Sustain is surprisingly good, thanks to Rousing Resilience. Rousing Resilience procs either on stun break or on demand with Balanced Stance, and we have a good uptime on stun breakers. Also, the Weakness from the warhorn and the block from the shield contribute nicely to the defense.

Everything in the build should be fairly obvious, except for Armored Attack: I take it because of its synergy with Rousing Resilience. Sigils could maybe be improved, I don’t know. I’ve tried many successful variations so far.

Thoughts?

I don’t understand the Ring of Fire thing. Currently, you can avoid the burning by not walking through it, but with the new skills, you’ll get some initial burn unconditionally?

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Serious though, I’ll I want for Christmas is a reveal skill. Too much stealth.

In WvW, I’ve been using stealth disruptor traps a lot. However, experienced thieves and mesmers simply kite away during the 30s reveal, and you cannot really do anything to catch them up. Still, it can be a lot of fun for quite a cheap price

[from a PvP and WvW Roaming Perspective]

When I first saw the elite specialization, I was a disappointed. When I tried it, I only spent a couple of hours on it, because I couldn’t make it work efficiently. There are many issues with the current warrior, the combination of which making the class perform poorly against skilled opponents. I hoped that the Berserker Specialization would help fight them, but it did not.

We have a mobility problem now. I didn’t think that the nerf of movement skills would hurt that bad, but it did. I cannot catch up to a staff mesmer anymore when wielding a single GS. When you add no teleport, no stealth, mediocre ranged options to the equation, then you get the most kitable class of all.

Being kitable is the fate of the warrior, I get that. But now, we’ve become excessingly kitable. If you cannot hit your opponents, you don’t build adrenaline, and don’t really use your burst skills. If you can be easily targeted, then you become vulnerable to bursts. Physical bursts are somehow manageable with Endure Pain and blocks, I guess (altough more blinds would be welcome). But steath/teleport condi-bombs are not. Using the Berserker Stance is working only against players that don’t monitor your buffs. The Healing Signet is good, but we need more access to Resistance.

The Discipline line has always been necessary to the warrior, it’s not a nice-to-have. Fast Hands helps us supplement the warrior’s mechanics. Without it, your rotations would be so slow you wouldn’t be able hit enough to use your core mechanics, or prepare your bursts decently. Brawler’s Recovery helps you alleviate the pressure of conditions; but it’s poor. How to hit when a mesmer can simply F1-F4 and blind you, even if you have stunned him, to prevent your burst? Versatile Rage gives you adrenaline at weapon swap. This is probably the most significant component in our adrenaline building. And note that many rotations can/should use burst skills even with less than 3 bars filled.

In short, to be usable, in my honest opinion, the Berserker Specialization should at least bring an access to Resistance, and Rage/Torch skills should also provide one block, one gap closer, and one blind. And of course, you still have the problem/opportunity of making Fast Hands and Embrace the Pain baseline.

Brawl.5178:

Just out of curiosity, what would replace fast hands as a minor trait?

Fast Legs

It’s the Discipline line, so anything related to weapon swap (e.g. gaining 10 endurance on weapon swap).

The V.8759:

I’ve been noticing lately whirlwind (Greatsword 3) is hitting much harder as it used to (PvP). Have they made changes to it?

As far as I know, nope.

It could be that GS warriors now systematically use Forceful Greatsword, so possibly have a few more might stacks than pre-patch with the GS? Or maybe players have simply improved their play with the current meta, getting used to marauder/berserker GS builds, learning how to maximize the output of their GS skills.

EDIT: of course, builds have changed with the patch, and we have gained access to interesting damage modifiers, such as Berserker’s Power. So the overall damage output of the power warrior has increased (and as a consequence, GS #3 as well).

@Caedmon

Endure Pain only blocks physical attacks. Life steal (necros, thieves…), retaliation, conditions and hard control are all let through. As a matter of fact, warriors only have partial invulnerabilities, no full invulnerabilities.

In the video by Vaanns, you can see that the opposite warrior takes a full evisceration despite having Endure Pain proccing. This is a bug related to the activation of Endure Pain (or Defy Pain, or stances traiting).

No cast time would be great, for sure – and it’s probably needed, too. As for the taunt, I don’t know – the skill lasts 4s max, during which you want to take on big attacks, not auto-attacks…

Incidentally, I’ve been using Defiant Stance right after reading this topic, and it works nicely against condi burst classes (e.g. staying on fire rings and zones on purpose…).

Caedmon.6798:

The only way you can fully land this skill is to skullcrack someone or pindown him,1on1 speaking.In a 1vx scenario there’s too much evades,blocks,blinds,retal,interrupts and able to port out /stealth and gain distance going on to ever make this skill viable as it currently is.Just to use it as an adren filler shouldnt be the purpose of the skill.

As a matter of fact, I agree with that analysis. I very rarely hit all 15 strikes of the Whirling Axe, and when I manage to do so, it’s indeed thanks to successful skullcrack. In average, what I consistently get is about 8-9k damage, and 1 bar of adrenaline. I usually prepare the skill with stability and cripple (sword #2, good to close in). The short CD of Whirling Axe (15s untraited) allows for quite a sustained aggression.

While I welcome 1v1, I rarely do 1vX, because I run Berserker and it’ better for the team if I seek and +1 elsewhere. In group fights (XvX), the Whirling Axe can shine a lot though – damage can be applied to many targets (players and adds), adrenaline is replenished at a faster rate, and you can combo with friendly combo fields.

Caedmon.6798:

Look at thieves daggerstorm for instance which gives stabi on a 3 sec interval/bleed and cripple and reflecting projectiles on top of that the daggers can bounce between targets and ( from wiki ) One foe may be hit directly by up to 8 projectiles, at the rate of about one per second. The number of hits is inversely related to the distance between the foe and the thief, with one dagger hit from the skill’s maximum 900 range distance, and 8 hits while standing directly on target.
Now compare this to our whirl.

There’s no denying the Daggerstorm is a nice skill, but it’s an elite with 90s CD, so I don’t think the comparison is valid. One could compare the stolen Whirling Axe of the thief with our own, to advocate for some buff (reflecting or destroying projectiles). But the thief can only acquire the skill against a warrior class, and the CD of his steal reduces the frequency of this acquisition – something that could reasonably legitimate the difference.

I’m not saying Axe #5 is the ultimate skill of the warrior, nor that Sword/Axe is superior to the GS! However, I do believe that Sword/Axe is a potent setup, unfairly frowned at by other warriors.

Yes, there seems to be a bug. It was actually captured by Vaanss in his latest videos, around 9:49.

https://youtu.be/06LZPSJAa6M?t=9m49s

Purple Miku.7032:

Elegie.3620:

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

I should have been more specific, sorry. My point is made in a PvP context, not a PvE context (or even a WvW one). In PvP, and PvP only, Axe #5 receives a 50% damage bonus, compared to other game modes.

As the damage of Axe #5 may easily represent more than half of your opponent’s health, I consider it significant. Taking into account other factors, such as adrenaline building or combos, my opinion (based on several hundred of PvP games with this setup) is that developing and applying rotations based around Axe #5 can be quite effective. YMMV.

Caedmon.6798:

Low dmg,easily interrupted or evaded,killing yourself on retal or your enemy gaining distance untill it ends.Whirl reflecting projectiles Or being put in an evade state would make this skill atleast a bit more viable.Adding a cripple effect or immob even,currently it’s just weak and easy avoidable

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

If you execute the skill “as is”, of course it’s gonna be interrupted or evaded. But any decent warrior would prepare the skill a bit (stability, control if only cripple…) – like you’d do for any other significant skill / rotation. You can move while channeling the skill, which is something that can be easily taken advantage of.

The retaliation is a real issue. Hitting 15 times is also bad for sustained damage, because missed hits or non-crit hits reduce your overall damage output. However, in compensation, hitting 15 times is strong as a whirl finisher, and even stronger at replenishing adrenaline (ideal for burst-based builds). It’s a trade-off.

The skill has some issues, but it’s a good skill nevertheless, provided you adjust your rotations accordingly and don’t blindly use/spam it. Any buff would make it it overpowered, and would require a nerf otherwise (like reducing the damage).

This is coming from someone who thought the skill was trash for many years, without bothering to try it – then gave it a try on a whim, and realized it had more potential than originally thought. The loss of the synergy with Reckless Dodge did reduce the skill value a bit, though.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah after reading through the first page I’m not really convinced. Most of the arguments that supported fast hands were, “we should have this baseline becuase its a warrior thing”. And I don’t think that’s a good argument, especially since it doesn’t tie into warrior class mechanics on your own. Its just a way to avoid using autoattacks when things are on cooldown.

The thing is, the warrior would have to use the AA more than the other classes, because it is the class which has the less skills available in a window of 10s (thief has the same amount, but can x-tap weapon skills thanks to initiative).

If some of our skills were godlike, or if the mechanics somehow compensated for that low amount of skills, then why not? But nope. Also, the warrior is one of the most kitable class of all (no teleport, no stealth, no adds, telegraphed skills, melee-orientation). All this makes the warrior pretty weak.

Fast Hands structurally compensates for these weaknesses, by providing the warrior with better rotations, on par with its opponents. You might be viable without it, I don’t know – maybe some conditank thing, where you’d stay in your fire field and resist… But competitive? I think not.

Don’t hesitate to read on the thread I’ve referenced if the topic interests you, there are many interesting posts coming later.

nearlight.3064:

Something like Ilusionary Persona on the other hand needed to be baseline because the mesmer class mechanic was unviable weak and inflexible without it. With fast hands, that logic doesn’t make sense.

I’m afraid I disagree here. There were many strong builds not investing in Illusions, e.g. Domination / Duel / Chaos, like Blackwater for PU conditions, or lock-down builds.

I’ve only played about 15-20 hours on my Revenant, so am not sure I could really comment in depth on your feedback. However, I find your points well explained and relevant, making sense. Nice job.

I’ve enjoyed the video very much too, made me want to play right again… Too bad I’ll have to wait for the next beta WE!

Hi,

nearlight.3064:

I don’t see how you’d need fast hands. All the other classes deal with the normal weapon swap cooldown just fine. You can make a more compelling argument for discipline as a whole. But saying you need fast hands baseline seems to be a bit much.

However I cannot properly make a counterpoint without understanding the argument for it, so if someone can show me exactly why just fast hands being baseline is needed for the warrior, then I’ll see if your argument compels me, a nonwarrior player about it.

This topic was discussed a few months ago in a lengthy thread. There were many good (and bad) inputs in the thread, feel free to scan it if you want to know more.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Make-Fast-Hands-Warrior-Sprint-Baseline/first

I don’t know if Fast Hands should be made baseline or not. I know, however, that I couldn’t play competitively without it (PvP-wise), because my skill rotations would suffer too much (you can just use the AA once your skills are on CD, the adrenaline-based mechanics is very simple, almost poor, it does not enhance much the basic gameplay – so I’d be kited to death without aggressive rotations).

I’ve been playing offhand axe a lot in PvP (see “the finisher” build in my sig, if interested). It is very fun to play, and has many good points, but it does have some issues as well. Is is also a misunderstood weapon, with a bad reputation – and many players tend to trust reputations rather than test by themselves.

The skill had (has) a bad reputation for many reasons. In the past, it did less damage (-17%) and its whirl finisher was broken. PvE players often don’t know there’s a 50% damage bonus in PvP, thus don’t even try playing it. The Whirling Axe stolen by the thief reflects projectiles, but the warrior’s does not.

The skill hits 15 times, which is great and no-so-great. It’s great because you can replenish adrenaline in a fast way, and benefit from the whirl finisher when standing on a combo field (situational though, because the warrior lacks combo fields). It’s not-so-great because each of this hit can trigger retaliation. Also, the overall damage is spread on all the hits – if you miss some, or don’t crit some, then the damage falls (if you hit/crit enough though, you can easily 10k+ in less than 2s, which is not bad DPS for PvP).

As to why it is not played at high level, I’d say it’s because players compare the GS to the sword/axe setup. The GS offers more mobility and has an evade; even if you don’t use Hundred Blades, you still hit hard. Sword/Axe has less mobility, but bring a burst (#3, possibly hard to place) and more soft control (countered by cleanses, blocks, teleports or immo-breaks). So the trade-off might not be worth it, especially in the current meta. Of course, you can pair the OH axe with something else than a sword, but your overall output (mobility, damage, control, survivability) is unlikely to reach the level of meta power builds anyway.

Note: comparing the skill with the axe AA is possible, but has issues. Firstly, only the damage is taken into account in the comparison, not the utility (finisher, adrenaline…). Secondly, the comparison suggests you equip a MH axe, which is damage-oriented, but lacks mobility, raising the issue of how you get close to your opponent (and keep him at hand) to apply the damage. OH axe has less pressure in that regard, because you can “naturally” complement it with a sword, which offers mobility, cripple and immobilize.

Hi,

Kravick.4906:

Are these at all viable now for PVE/PVP/WVW? I’ve been a way for a while. I realize its not likely meta, but is it something that you can at least get good mileage out of?

Sword/Sword is a setup mainly used for condition/hybrid builds. Their efficiency directly depends on the target’s ability to manage conditions, i.e. dodging critical skills, and resisting, transferring or cleansing conditions.

In PvE, many people have reported success in using sinister-geared setups. I haven’t tried it myself, but I did solo some dungeon parts in the past, using condition builds, and it wasn’t that bad. Still, from what I’ve read, power builds remain king in that area.

In WvW, condition builds are very good for roaming, because many players don’t equip the tools to properly fight conditions (or don’t have the skills to). Condition builds are however useless in zerging or guild-run, because group composition provide frequent altruistic condition cleansing.

In PvP, sword/sword is rarely seen nowadays. While the current meta has a lots of conditions, there are actually many classes that perform better than the warrior in that regards, notably because the warrior does not have condition bursts (the Berserker line might change that, I haven’t tried). Aside from power warriors, you may find celestial / settler warriors, but they’d use shield/warhorn, for their utility.

In any case, if you have never played condition or hybrid builds before, give them a try. The game play is different from the usual power warrior, but you might like it – in which case you’d be viable in many game modes (although admittedly not optimal).

Regards.

@Nier

I’ve won a 1v2 yesterday as a marauder GS/Bow warrior, in an unranked game. Hey, the warrior is overpowered, please nerf?

Come on, you don’t get that winning a 1v2 has more to it than the classes in use? Builds and counter-builds? Knowledge of the enemy strengths/weaknesses? Player’s skills? Anyway, you seem quite bitter, to the point of openly insulting people you don’t know. Since you cannot refrain from going personal, I’m not interested in interacting with you anymore.

It’s a loss for both of us, you know. You could have convinced me with some good points, and I could have helped spread them – or the other way around.

Hi,

@Nier

Why so aggressive? I’ll give you a proper answer below, but if you cannot demonstrate some basic level of civility, then it’s good bye. I’m interested in constructive discussions, not into pointless personal arguments or flame wars. Your choice.

Your assimilating “winning 1v2 = class is OP” looks simplistic to me. Don’t you forget about builds, counter-builds, players’ class knowledge and players’ skill? I used a power Shiro/Glint setup, efficient against power classes with low closing mechanics. I played when the revenant was freshly out, so my opponents weren’t familiar with the class yet. Of course I’d win fights – not doing so would be pretty shameful, don’t you think? But don’t worry, I got trashed a lot too – especially against heavy condition users, as Shiro/Glint has minimal condition management.

If your current experience has led you to think that the Revenant is overpowered, then feel free to point out the issues in the Revenant forum, as the dev in charge reads it regularly. Naturally, I’d expect you’ve tried playing Revenant yourself before that, so as to understand its forces / weaknesses, and formulate an adequate strategy on how to act accordingly when meeting one, based on the legends equipped. There are been a lot of players failing to do so, yet posting negative comments on the forum, thus decreasing the credibility of their claims.

@nearlight

Sorry I misunderstood, then. Carrion Glint/Mallyx is something I definitely wanted to try, but had no time to. It looked quite promising indeed, and I’ll be trying it next beta for sure.

Regards.

Quite funny. I imagine someone facing that team:

• Beware the guard, he’s burning like the sun…
• What guard?
• The Asura…
• Dude, they’re all Asuras…
• Ah… Well, the guard named… WTF…
• No guard named that way, you idiot.

@Saiyan: Game’s free-to-play now

nearlight.3064:

What? Infuse light only lasts for 4 seconds.

It’s also the revenant’s only form of active defense aside from evades that cost too much energy in Shiro, without this heal, the class has no chance to survive focus fire in a teamfight.

Infuse Light lasts 4 seconds, has no cast time, has a passive regeneration for a cost of one energy. Defiant Stance lasts 3 seconds, has a 1/4s cast time. As a Stance, it can be traited with Last Stand (GM trait in Defense, competing with Cleansing Ire) to last 4 seconds as well, and provide 6s of vigor on use.

One could argue that one is better than the other, but there’s actually no definite answer to that. Comparing skills between classes is a useless exercise. A class balance is made of all its skills and mechanics, one cannot compare their individual components.

I’ve played the revenant all the week-end, and plan to switch from my warrior main to revenant when HoT comes out. Since the last patch, the warrior has become merely viable in PvP, and the elite specialization is not useful at all. It does not address the current issues of the warrior, and it degrades the skill rotations, by introducing the need to preserve adrenaline.

When playing as a revenant, I had no problem sustaining, though. I don’t know what build you played; I went Glint/Shiro with Marauder, and could manage several 1v2 already. Shiro/Mallyx was okay, Glint/Mallyx was strong, and I didn’t really play Ventari or Jalis (not my style). Don’t hesitate to discuss your sustain options on the Revenant forum, people look quite helpful there.

In my view, the Revenant is pretty much balanced, except for a couple of skills which should be toned down. The warrior forum isn’t the place to discuss them, though. I think you’ve misunderstood the OP’s post as a request to nerf the Revenant, rather than for what it is (a request to buff the Warrior, and a relevant one at that).

Thank you very much for the build. I’ve had a blast with it, it’s so good…

will not use

/char15

I’ve only played a couple of hours of the Revenant, but I have to say I’m very pleased with the class. I particularly like that it offers swift gameplay, not only with all the teleports, but in a more fundamental way, with the ability to swap weapons and legends “orthogonally”, allowing many fighting tactics. I’ve been enjoying myself a lot, so I offer my enthusiastic thanks to the people behind the design of the class. Cheers.

Aside from using it with a control skill or in cleaving down players, I also use it in double exchanges, against classes that have long bursts (e.g. GS guardian, Whirling thieves, other GS warriors…) – making sure Endure Pain or Rousing Resilience is up before the exchange.

Hi there,

I was wondering what your current experience is in regards of the Celestial Hambow. I’ve been experiencing a bit with the following version:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASTjMdQZIWFCehApIGICM9LM92CWA4DOAwWwLYEA-TpBHwAFuAAAeAAd2fQwRAYwhAAZZAA

Body Blow helps the defense with the weakness, increases the value of the hammer by reducing the opponent’s regeneration (less dodges) and mixing in a flew bleeds.

Berserker’s Power buffs the damage of the celestial gear, in my view more interesting than Distracting Strikes. I find Distracting Strikes is a bit lacking as a GM trait.

Cull the Weak focuses even more on Weakness, providing another 5% damage modifier, working nicely with the Hammer and Body Blow.

Burst Mastery allows for successive bursts to build might, but I suspect Merciless Hammer might be viable as well.

Do you think the Hambow could still be useful in the current metagame? Or is it that the warrior, if played, cannot really be played in another fashion than a Berserker/Marauder GS wielder?

WindGodGirl.6405:

Why not use it in melee range? Using it at range seems like something you’d do to poke/annoy someone.

Using it a melee certainly looks better. Still, sometimes I’m really annoyed to be kited like a chicken, because most of my attacks are telegraphed and I’m always visible to the enemy, without any position break (stealth/teleport). A ranged attack somehow alleviates the pressure put by kiters.

Also, Flaming Flurry being ranged brings the question of Cleansing Ire and Berserker’s Power. If only one hit of the Flurry needs to reach the target to trigger those traits, then using the Flurry from afar can still be interesting.

Hi,

Cygnus.6903:

Dude, your build just got viable with Torch.

I have been reading about the Torch with a lot of interest, you bet

Cygnus.6903:

Also, take geomancy instead of earth. It will immediately proc doom if you land it, it’s AoE, and swapping to hammer will often be close to your target thanks to sword leap. The duration is 10 seconds base, which is a lot better then earth on a slow hitting weapon, especially if your crit chance gets lower.

That makes sense, thanks for the advice.

Cygnus.6903:

It might be worth it to go celestial after Berserker goes live. Sword Torch Hammer will be very strong I believe. The reason being that one can use the Torch 5 to stack might with Sword Leap and Earthshaker.

Yes, indeed. Current hybrid builds either lack punch (shoutbow) or mobility (hambow), mainly because they need the longbow. An hybrid Sword/Torch+Hammer sounds quite promising. Also, physical skills might become more usable as well, because they’d work with Body Blow, Distracting Strikes, Warrior’s Sprint and as Combo Finishers – not mentioning Rage skills.

I also wonder to what extent the new Specialization might provide new options for defense – because going Strength + Discipline + Berserker is something I really look forward to.

@Darkaheart

Nope, I don’t have any sinister gear. I haven’t really played in the new maps, but I can see myself farming a bit if needed (I already did so to get the beta portal, and I liked the maps very much). I’ll have to check out recipes, if it’s such a bother then I’ll consider using rampager instead.

I believe there’s a slight misunderstanding, though. Both you and Cygnus seem to believe that the build isn’t working well enough. As a matter of fact, I have spent many hours in the testing, in Eotm of course as you’ve pointed out, but also in Borderlands. While I still have a lot more to experiment, I deemed my initial results satisfying enough to propose the build to the community. In other words, while the build does have many weaknesses, I believe in its potential, and have had pretty good fights with it already.

I’m pretty sure the Defense line can work nicely, though. As a matter of fact, I’ve already played condition builds using Strength / Defense / Discipline before, although not with the hammer and the runes of Perplexity. I’ll give a try using the same armor, but just switching the trait line and the utilities (going with stances), to see how it fares!

Cheers.