Guild Wars 2

The fight with Doc Howler is kitten. Whoever designed Doc Howler and thought it was ok to give a Veteran mob a poison that lasts for 30 seconds and another stacking poison was a fool of the worst kind. Nothing about this fight is fair or well balanced and nothing about “learn to play your class” will do squat against an encounter like this that isn’t fair for the player when it uses mechanics that the player cannot effectively overcome, especially because she is a ranged veteran mob with undodgeable unavoidable damage.

To begin with no Veterans or Champions should ever be made into ranged mobs with unavoidable damage, but furthermore no NPC should ever be able to apply nonstop poisons and debuffs that last for much longer than the debuffs the player can apply to the NPC.

Luckily you can cause her to get stuck in the stairs because otherwise I could not have finished this poorly designed piece of kitten quest.

Greatsword is better hands down.

Hammer is just lackluster because the skills don’t do very much in PvE. Yeah maybe you can known an enemy back once in a while but the only enemies you can knock back are the ones you dont’ need to knock back and waste your time by doing so as you then need to either wait for them to return or chase them down, not to mention that the huge cast time completely obliterates any advantage that not getting whacked on for 1.5 seconds will get you. You’d have reduced the damage you took more by kiting than using that skill. The single AOE skill does lackluster damage, the only benefit is that it recharges fairly fast and is a comba finisher. The other root skill does little damage and there isn’t really much use to rooting mobs (obviously useful in PvP). The shielding ability is pretty useful however it doesn’t really make up for the fact that 2/5 of the abilities are pretty much useless in PvE. The autoattack is super slow and if memory serves me right only hits one target at a time. So the DPS of the autoattack very low even if the individual hits do more damage than the GS.

Every ability of the GS is aoe, and they all do damage. THe GS has an AOE pull and an AOE blind/charge skill. Three of the abilities are combo finishers and 1 of the abilities creates a combo field. The autoattack does AOE damage, is much faster than the hammer autoattack and the 3rd hit of the GS ability gives you might.

When comparing the two weapons I would simply ask yourself this, “Am I going to be pvping or pveing?” And even then I’d still think about taking the GS to PvP with instead of the hammer which is very underwhelming.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Through one of the Sylvari storylines we do know that there is another Pale Tree with Sylvari. I think that the Sylvari from that pale tree doesn’t know what the dream of dreams is which suggests that is something unique to our tree.

Also the Nightmare court are initially unaware of this so they probably have no sway over this other tree.

Yes, our think our Pale Tree only grew the way it did because of the influence of the dragon sleeping at its roots.

I am guessing that if the Pale Tree were destroyed all Sylvari would become members of the night court and being unable to reproduce would eventually die out and become extinct.

“Where life goes, so too should you”
All life leads inevitably towards death. Naturally, death is something that should be explored.
Notice however that it strictly says where life goes thus implying that you shouldn’t focus on the destination, which is unknowable since life is unpredictable, but the journey. As death is the cessation of the journey of life you should avoid it. It is especially important to point out that Sylvari don’t really have a concept of death because their memories and I guess you could call them souls return to the Mother Tree where they can be given life again. So in that instance it is almost saying don’t worry about what happens to you in life because you will never know death.

“All things have a right to grow. The blossom is brother to the weed.”
Just because you find it distasteful due to cosmetic reasons, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be studied. What grows is ones knowledge.
This relates specifically to a species that considers itself to be a plant. As plants are generally stationary they are stuck next to their neighbors regardless of whether they like them or not. And some plants kitten the growth of their neighbors. Taken in the context that a Sylvari would understand this then you have saying that means something along the lines of “Don’t covet thy neighbor’s wife” or “Don’t judge others lest you judge yourself.”

Back story is that he worked as a mender. Learning from the dead how to help the living (and to understand the undead) makes sense. [How? How does that make sense?Yes it is true that doctors dissect bodies in order to learn how the organs function but our modern medicine is a very crude and inefficient thing compared to the magic that Sylvari use to heal themselves and each other]

Also, once one has died, the body is all that is left. The person is no longer present within that body, it is discard, or waste material. Re-using dead bodies and/or experimenting on them should be seen as part of the life cycle. It is material that can and should be reused for other purposes. Ppeople have been using wood for material for a long time. Tables turned!

That is complete ridiculousness given Sylvari beliefs. A Sylvari would never think or do this. For the Sylvari, their bodies were given to them by the Mother Tree so profaning the body would be profaning the Mother Tree. And since Sylvari’s bodies were made to look human it is only natural that they would tend to associate the bodies of their allies as sacred too and therefore hold that profaning any body is profaning the Mother Tree. Bodies should naturally be left to complete their cycle of birth and decay, where yesterday’s bodies are the nutrients for today’s life. Reanimating bodies breaks this sacred cycle and is to be abhorred.

I like the one that summons all the turrets and makes you invincible for 3 seconds. You can’t go wrong with that.

Millionaires.4201:

He’s being more useless, no matter what he gets stuck in that spot.
http://imgur.com/iQZ2yfy

I don’t know what his deal is.

I think “more useless” is subjective because I would consider a stuck Trahearne more useful than an unstuck Trahearne who requires constant babysitting and reviving.

Let’s just dissect your arguments.

Conclusion: A game should contain challenge
Premises:
a) Guild Wars 2 is a game
b) a game is supposed to provide fun
c) challenge is the only way to provide fun
Argument:
Since GW 2 is a game and a game is supposed to provide fun then Guild Wars 2 is supposed to provide fun. Because Guild Wars 2 is supposed to provide fun and challenge is the only way to provide fun then Guild Wars 2 needs to be challenging/provide challenge.

This argument however is easily shown to be false by demonstrating that there are ways to provide fun that are entirely passive in nature such as watching a comedy show on the telly. It necessarily follows that if there are ways to have fun other than being challenged then being challenging is only a sufficient but not necessary condition for Guild Wars to provide fun. Since it could also provide fun by becoming a comedy show then Guild Wars 2 does not need to be challenging.

Life also contains permadeath, but I don’t think anyone, including you, wants Guild Wars 2 to feature perma death. So if we don’t want to replicate one aspect of real life then it is also possible we don’t want to replicate other aspects of real life. We certainly don’t want to replicate the fact that there is no magic in the real world nor that injuries cannot magically heal completely within 10 especially when injuries in the real world when left untreated or even when treated can lead to death. We also don’t want to replicate that having your unarmored arm get struck squarely with a greatsword would cut your arm clean off. Video games are a form of escape, they are not real life simulators (though some video games try to be but cannot ever actually be a true reali life simulator because not only is real life incapable of being simulated but simulating it in its entirety would be undesireable).

Obviously of course every game needs to replicate real life to a certain extent in order to function and be believeable, we could hardly play GW 2 if the devs hadn’t chosen to replicate the effects of gravity.

Quite franky, I really don’t like games that grab you and refuse to let go. (which they can do by requiring an onerous amount of grinding).

Here is my favorite quote from Ghost in the Shell: Standalone complex which addresses a problem of MMOs:

Kanazuki: What do you think [of the movie]?

Major: I have to admit, for a movie it wasn’t bad- but diversionary entertainment is transitory, it just comes and goes at the viewers whim. It’s the way it should be, but a film with no beginning or end that hooks an audience and won’t let go of them is harmful no matter how wonderful you may have believed it was.

Kanazuki: Ohh, you’re a tough critic. Are you saying that we members of the audience have a reality to which we should return?

Major: Yes I am.

Kanazuki: For some who sit and watch the film, misery will be waiting for them the instant they go back to reality. You’re willing to accept responsibility for depriving these people of their dreams?

Major: No, I’m not. But dreams are meaningful [only] when you work toward them in the real world. If you merely live within the dreams of other people it’s no different from being dead.

Kanazuki: You’re a realist.

Major: If a romantic escapes from reality, then yes.

Kanazuki: A strong girl you are. If the reality you believe in ever comes about, you give me a call. When it happens, that’s the time we’ll leave this theatre.

M Steel.2574:

SPOILER ALERT – Turn Back Now

- A memorial for a fallen mentor

No. I hated Forgal’s guts. The last thing I want is a statue of him.

Syktek.7912:

Sorry to hear you can’t get on as often as you’d like, but MMOs have never been very friendly to those with time constraints.

Back in WotLK I could do the daily dungeon in a half hour or less. And which being all I intended to accomplish for the day i would log off.

emikochan.8504:

This is just part one, As was said repeatedly on the forums.

But why in the name of all things holy would they only implement something like this in parts when the changes were clearly meant to be part of a whole and never designed to be implemented in parts because that would be too stupid (if you beleive the OPer’s logic as I do and ther OPer already states that he knows Anet is releasing this in parts, that’s one of his premises!). What was the reason for releasing the worst parts now and not just waiting until the whole thing was ready? Anet’s decision denies all rational sense.

Death Henk.7143:

In addition for a person like me who did not read all books or lore, we have next to zero affinity for Sylvari. I’m sure they are lovely lads, but let me explore this new race on my own pace. Don’t let our relationship with the Sylvari go too fast. I need to think about where I want to go with them. Maybe I like Norn, maybe I stick to Humans, I don’t know. Just don’t put them in my face. Don’t let me go on a 8 month trip with the average joe23495, also known as Trahearne, who I could not care less who he is.

I think though, it’s not just Trahearne’s personality alone. It’s also the Sylvari race. You either love it or hate it. We can all relate to soft fluffy creatures such as Charr, but to plant-like creatures its just another thing. Maybe we as the players should not have cared so much about who we are set up with, but the fact is we are listening and playing with these characters for hours. It generally makes it harder for you to get into the story if you (the main character) of the story goes around with someone you cannot relate to.

I think this is a very human reaction from a perspective I never considered as my own character was Sylvari so my character was more easily able to relate to Trahearne than anyone else she could have worked with besides Caithe. The experience for me was more like a bonding experience between a big brother and a little sister where of course I would have to acquiesce to my older brother.

Quarktastic.1027:

Ellisande.5218:

Chessrook.8643:

They’re like Bruce Banner. They’re peaceful pacifists that look nice and cute and wouldn’t hurt a fly. But push them too far…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/e/ea/Enraged_Quaggan.jpg

But unlike Bruce Banner Quaggans have no ability to defend themselves. A frog’s form does not allow it to become bipedal. A frog which ws bipedal would look nothing like frog’s look now, they’d probably look like humans assuming that frogs could evolve to become bipedal and wouldn’t be more likely to become more aquatic.

The Quaggan are a completely ridiculous and utterly impossible species who would be unable to live if they actually possessed the anatomy they do.

The same is true for the Asura (because of their size they’d have very high metabolisms which would create a lot of strain on the body leading to a much earlier death than a larger species to such an extent that they would not have evolved an intelligence comparable to a humans which is why every tiny race being the smartest is utterly ridiculous because it is completely impossible) and the Charr (they would not be able to properly balance given that their heads are so far away from their torso with nothing to balance them out, they’d constantly be tripping. No species would ever evolve to constantly trip).

There’s this little thing called suspension of disbelief? I don’t suppose you’ve heard of it?

You’re making baseless assumptions based on your observations of real world creatures. For instance. Size is not an indicator of lifespan or intelligence. Some species of tropical birds can live for 60-80 years, and are not much larger than an average house cat. Elephants are immense in size, yet they lack higher intelligence.

Many quadrupedal animals can balance, and even walk on their hind legs. In case you haven’t noticed, charr drop to all fours when running at full speed. They only stand upright while walking or in combat.

Suspension of disbelief only gets you so far. In order for suspension of disbeleif to work properly the artist needs to move the audience with gentle steps so that the audience starts in a pot of tepid water which raised to boiling so slowly the audience doesn’t notice. If at any point the audience jumps out of the pot then the artist has failed.

And quadrupeds can’t actually walk on their hind legs the same way a human walks on its hind legs because a quadruped cannot remain upright for prolonged periods of time nor can they efficiently move about while on their hindlegs.

Even pregnant bipeds have a hard time remaining upright because of the extra weight in front shifting them off balance. Consider this article:

Pregnant women do not tip over, and researchers say an evolutionary curve has a lot to do with the reason.

Anthropologists studying the human spine have found that women’s lower vertebrae evolved in ways that reduce back pressure during pregnancy, when the mass of the abdomen grows by nearly one-third and the center of mass shifts forward considerably. That increases pressure on the spinal column, strains the muscles and generally reduces stability.

Even without the benefit of advanced study in biomechanics, women tend to deal with the shift – and avoid tumbling over like a bowling pin – by leaning back.

The New York Times
Evolution throws a helpful curve toward pregnant women
By John Schwartz
Published: Monday, November 12, 2007

Charr to my mind wouldn’t stand a ghost of a chance.

toxianguardian.4850:

So…you want to buy something…and…have that item give you back…what you paid for it…huh.

Boggling.

Isn’t our current retail environment premised on the idea that you can buy something and then sell it to someone else for more than you paid for it?

And isn’t that idea behind stocks and mutual funds?

Kraggy.4169:

Vasham.2408:

If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.

FYI, the ‘G’ in MMORPG doesn’t stand for GROUP

And if it did mean GROUP that would imply that every single person would have to be grouped together. What would a10,000 person group be like? Just think of the endless loot drama.

Shanna.4762:

I get where the OP is coming from, like in SWTOR your personal story never had to have anyone else in it if you didn’t want to all the way to the end…But I think their reason for this was that you’re reaching max level so they’re trying to introduce you to finding groups for dungeons in a more seamless way than “You’re now finished with your story. Say hello to the brick wall. Now divert your attention over here indefinitely.”

What is the difference between hitting a brick wall when doing the personal stroy and hitting thr brick wall when looking for a group?

The story cannot be thought of as easing people into learning how to group because it is an abrubt departure that comes of out nowhere which takes on the exact same form as forming a normal group would however it is even harder to get a group for the personal story quest because it offers little tangible reward to players who already finished their personal story quest.

In essence by changing from soloable to group oriented material at the very last quest Anet did say, “Say hello to the brick wall. Now divert your attention over here indefinitely” because this quest could be uncompleteable if you can’t find a group for it.

A proper introduction to grouping (if such a thing were necessary but it is not because most guild wars 2 players already have sufficient MMO experience) would be offering players optional quests during their story line which took them into increasingly harder group oriented dungeons but remained completely optional and allowed the personal story to be completed without doing the optional group oriented dungeons.

Chessrook.8643:

They’re like Bruce Banner. They’re peaceful pacifists that look nice and cute and wouldn’t hurt a fly. But push them too far…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/e/ea/Enraged_Quaggan.jpg

But unlike Bruce Banner Quaggans have no ability to defend themselves. A frog’s form does not allow it to become bipedal. A frog which ws bipedal would look nothing like frog’s look now, they’d probably look like humans assuming that frogs could evolve to become bipedal and wouldn’t be more likely to become more aquatic.

The Quaggan are a completely ridiculous and utterly impossible species who would be unable to live if they actually possessed the anatomy they do.

The same is true for the Asura (because of their size they’d have very high metabolisms which would create a lot of strain on the body leading to a much earlier death than a larger species to such an extent that they would not have evolved an intelligence comparable to a humans which is why every tiny race being the smartest is utterly ridiculous because it is completely impossible) and the Charr (they would not be able to properly balance given that their heads are so far away from their torso with nothing to balance them out, they’d constantly be tripping. No species would ever evolve to constantly trip).

Mortifer.2946:

GUARDIAN CANNOT DO THIS ACHIEVEMENT BECAUSE HE HAS ONLY 2 COMBO FINISHERS WICH MAKE AURAS, NOT DAMAGE! THANK YOU ANET, AGAIN.

What about the fire bubble?

Oh I guess that’s an aura. NM.

And the hammer is probably an aura too. What a pickle we’re in.

Don’t most combos actually just result in buffs on the person creating the combo and not extra combo damage?

If that is the case then how are we expected to kill mobs with combos?

Jareth.4813:

once they’ve nailed down the daily tasks to get us out into the world.

I’m pretty sure that the old dailies already got us “out into the world” just as much as the new changes could be thought of as doing since they are essentially exactly the same thing except the new changes only make them more annoying and time consuming to do but don’t actually involve doing anything new other than crafting which actually gets us back into town and away from the world.

Dailies now require being grouped and underwater combat and crafting!?

When Anet makes decisions they really need to ask for specific community feedback about what the community wants because I’m pretty sure no one wanted to make dailies more of a pain in the butt to do and cost more money to complete (porting to a town to craft and then back).

What we wanted was something like having to complete the old dailies but in specific areas of the game which were adjusted accordingly (ex if Orr was the chosen area then the daily kill variety requirement would be removed).

Reikou.1840:

One should not expect to have a static build of two specific weapon sets, a single heal, three utility and an elite to be able to complete all content in this game. Guild Wars 2, just like it’s predecessor, is built upon “Counters”. Everything has a counter. And when your “static” build runs into it’s “counter”, you’re in for a world of hurt if you haven’t learned how to adapt.

Clearly you and the designers of this game are in disagreement here. If they had meant us to use more than what they provided and allowed us to use then they would have allowed us to have access to more than 2 sets of weapon skills (1 if you are a mage), 1 heal, 3 skills of the player’s choice and an elite skill also of the player’s choice all of which cannot be changed once the player is “in combat.”

You are subsituting your own opinion for how you think the game should be played for how the game was actually designed to be played and no one is being fooled by this deception. Your idea of “counters” is even worse. It implies that some classes and builds were intentionally poorly designed so that other people could take advantages of the deficiency and that the player of that build was intended to never stand a chance against someone else when they randomly encounter each other. I highly doubt that such “counters” are intentional since PvP is designed to have some random qualities to it and the idea of counters would therefore be incomplete since you’d end up with a system where A is good against B but only good against B, B is good againt C but only good against C, and C is good against A but only good against A and then D who will fair decently agaisnt all of them. If PvP is intentionally designed in such a way that you never know whether you will be facing A, B, C or D then how could any good developer create a system where you randomly lose 1.5 out of 3 matchups just because your build was only intended to be good against one particular class whose only purpose was to be good against some other class that was only intendeds to be good against your class and all of which could be trumped by D? Why would any rational person design such a clearly flawed system that causes players to lose? And why would any rational person encourage games to be designed using such a flawed system? The more likely idea behind "counters’ were simply design defects or inevitable inabilities to balance certain classes against each other becuase there was simply too much on the table to allow perfect balancing to be possible so some large imbalances were left in the game because they could not easily be fixed and determined to involve such infrequent matchups as to not be worth devoting time to addressing. Whether these deficicencies actually played were minor or turned out to be major problems is a seperate area of inquiry.

This is an especially ludicrous assumption to maintain when talking about a part of a game that was designed to be played solo and designed around the gameplay restrictions that the designers introduced.

And of course we do have hard evidence that proves you are wrong. Elementalists can go D/D the entire game and be perfectly peachy. Necros can use Staff, Guardians can use Greatsword etc. Each class likely has at least one good build they could use throughout the story campaign. Coincidentally these are also some of the most popular weapon choices for these classes. I would classify these as the D from above, where they are pretty good against everything rather than suffering from over or under-specialization. I would even go further and argue that if the OP is having problems it might not be that they don’t know how to play but because the weapons they chose to use, and the devs said they should be able to use by including them in a game that restricts players to using only what they have equipped, simply are not fully functional at present and need to be fixed.

It’s the complete opposite of the implementation of DS/LS in SWTOR or Charm/Intimidate in Mass Effect 2/3 where your choice actually determines what happens in the immediate story and makes your character increasingly deformed and pale if you keep picking the evil option.

Maybe Anet should have played some Bioware games before implementing this.

I think the only character I really cared about in the story was Caithe probably in no small part because I spent so much time with her from the time I first stepped into the game since I started as a Sylvari.

Which I think just adds credence to the point already made that continuing to kill off characters left and right creates not emotion but detachment. Killing off characters is a lot like eating a delicacy, that first bite is exquisite but every bite after that becomes less and less enjoyable until by the end you don’t even taste it and are left sitting at your table chewing on this tasteless gray goo in your mouth trying to flag down the waiter so you can pay your bill and rush back home to catch the new episode of 2 Broke Girls. (don’t be hating, I love that show!)

Zionka.6897:

Well, this is an opinion thread. Personally, I have been spending a ton of time on my armors making them look “just right” If I wasn’t so lazy, I’d figgure out how to post a screenshot of my Sylvan ele’s costume. Playing around with dyes can make a huge difference. I love the armor here, especially the cultural. Ugly? Not by a long shot, to me. I actually have come to think it’s the most awesome looking armor online Everyone has different tastes. Now the weapons on the otherhand I think border on silly looking, especially those gargantuan greatswords others think look cool. I’d like to see more attention paid to fine detailing rather than size, but whatever. Some look nice.

But isn’t the Sylvari cultural armor some of the best looking in the game?

The problem is that only Sylvari have access to Sylvari cultural armor, the rest have the standard looking armor and cultural armor that looks like standard armor.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

I have to say that overall I am fairly disappointed with the Armor styles. The dungeon sets are just horrible in my opinion (this is simply my opinion). On those I am going to mix and match them the best I can to make a “decent” overall look. Even most of the cultural armors are filled with “meh” looks. For instance the NPC armor sets of the Norn far far far outweigh in looks compared to their cultural armor. Likewise for the humans. The human t3 heavy armor just makes you look like you are a fat chubby warrior.

The armor designs seemed to be addicted to trench coats for medium and for heavy they are addicted to skirts and butt capes. The simple chainmail sets look great and realistic but the helms are horrible. The move to plate went straight from the realistic chainmail to over the top spikes and rediculousness. There are ways to make plate look ornate and awesome without going over the top WoW shoulders and such.

I know this is harsh commentary on them but it’s my opinion. I love the game but I was honestly shocked that they saved the good armor for the npcs and gave us this very meh armor.

You are forgetting the scalemail in between chain and heavy that mostly looks very nice.

But yeah I hate the spikey shoulders to

Metal.3826:

I liked the Masterwork heavy armor I was buying from the trading post while leveling, particularly after level 60. There’s also armor skins. You want glowy stuff like WoW?

There already is glowy stuff with big shoulders like you’d find in WoW (which also has armor sets that aren’t glowy with big shoulders).

This isn’t 2005 where all the mages were complaining about wearing purple and blue dresses with water coolers coming out of their shoulders.

Amen.2630:

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

the funniest thing is mesmers. they should only played by girls, or guys who aren’t really sure if they are girls or not.

you know that GIRL means = Guy in real life

they pick them cause mesmers have the most barbie design of all the proffessions

That’s why the chart asks if you are sure

I guess its a good thing that I play an elementarist.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Yep, ArenaNet sold their three million units and are packing it up. The servers go down next week, and development on GW3 will commence shortly. Suggestions for new classes, anyone? I’ve really got my hopes up for a Mathemagician.

They aren’t remaking Final Fantasy Tactics.

tkalamba.2541:

Exotics aren’t meant to be handed to you on a silver platter. Get the Rare, transmute it to your exotic. There, problem solved. It’s what I plan on doing with mine.

The Mother Tree disagrees with you.

aurora.3765:

I have to agree completely. I was so excited to finish and then open the bags. When I ended up with level thirty blues, I felt incredibly disappointed. I had to resort to a chocolate binge.

So would the appropriate fix for you be a new set of bags that give an appropriate level reward or the value of the lost chocolate?

Arcalithe.6057:

In order to understand a position you don’t have to believe in that position itself you just have to understand the argument which is being made, something that you have refused to do and therefore resorted to calling it “irrational” as a means to avoid having to meet it head on. But you can’t simply dodge addressing the issue just because you don’t want to put the time into reading the points that were being made.

Wow, people get touchy when you introduce a differing opinion. :V

Guess I’ll get back to playing instead of duking it out over the internet. You can say “woo I won” if you want. What do you want me to say? Congratulations, you won an internet argument? Well, if that “victory” is all you want, then by all means, have it.

I still like Trahearne and I think people are overreacting to him.

Yeah you totally stuck it to the man, Arca

SHUT IT, YOU. >:C

I don’t get touchy when people hold a differing opinion. I get touchy when people call my opinion irrational because they do not put the leg work into reading the posts that would have allowed them to understand the position.\

And I thought maybe my memory was hazed or I was under stress or something at the time so I watched this scene play out again and it was still just as bad.

In the previous mission Trahearne is all like “Oh no we’re never going to be able to do this because we don’t have the manpower” and your character is all like “just chill dude I totally got this. we can just get all the orders to join together” then trahearne replies "wow you’re totally one smart cookie I wish I would have thought of that.

Then you go to your order representative (who is being voiced by a completely different voice actress at this point if you chose to go vigil) to propose YOUR plan and your leader is like "wow what a great plan [player character]. if anyone but Trahearne was telling me that [never mind that it was your character telling them this after your character had just saved the day with by coming up with the plan that routed the undead army and was so awesome and beloved by this leader that they rose to the top of the ranks within 3 missions!?] I would have cut them down where they stand [even though your character and not Trahearne was the one who told them this]. I totally love this Trahearne guy who had absolutely no presence within the story and was completely unknown by anyone up until Claw Island [unless you were a Sylvari then he gets introduced as a bit character who was easily forgettable outside of being Caithe’s “brother” but of course all Sylvari are actually born from the same mother so he is also your older brother and you are his younger sister/brother] and still comes off as a bit character."

Then the next mission is you going to the meeting of the order leaders where they predictably are bickering like children, Trahearne gets in, opens his stupid mouth and says something very unpolitical that threatens to throw your characters plan into jeopardy when your character appeals to each of the order leaders who finally agree to work together. Then the vigil leader says that strong leadership is needed and out of the blue and for no apparent reason another order leader says that the leader will have to be a neutral party and the stupid Asura guy I can’t stand (i hate all of the asura because they are basically just young teenagers spuutering stupid catch phrases) says that yes being neutral is the only qualification that matters and not actual ability to lead, get the orders to truly work well together, or not die to a mob every 2 seconds. So Trahearne gets nominated for the job even though he very clearly demonstrated just 5 seconds ago that he wasn’t up to the task. The more appropriate thing to do would have been to not make your character join an order (which never made any sense anyways because being in an order had nothing to do with the mission that brought you to lion’s arch in the first place and everything you do in that order has nothing to do with that original goal as well) from the getgo or take your character out of the order they were in and have the character readopt the neutral leadership position they held when they first worked with the three orders 15 or so levels ago.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Hellkaiser.6025:

I’m expecting that last one as an answer to be honest. Either that or “stop working towards a goal and just have fun” etc.

What if working toward a particular goal IS your definition of having fun? Or it would be if you hadn’t encountered a grind. Sometimes, in the course of having fun in a game, grinds are encountered. When one is, the choices are to give up and find something else to do or work through the grind until you’re on the other side again.

But what exactly is on the other side? It seems like in MMOs you end up grinding so that you can grind. (grinding for better gear so you can grind for better gear).

It seems to me like grinding should be defined as content which is completed for the purpose of being able to participate in conduct elsewhere and content which shouldn’t be considered a grind is content that is completed for its own sake.

Of course that leaves you with a subjective determination of what is completed for its own sake and what is completed for the sake of something else. Certainly an avid PvPer who enjoys PvPing would view PvP content as the means to an end and the end in itself whereas a PvEer might view PvP content only as the means to getting a certain piece of gear that they intend to use elsewhere.

Lifeson.4352:

Imagine a world where magic find doesn’t exist, and drop rates are adjusted to full magic find level. Everyone gets to use their armor and not have to screw around with a second set that clogs up your bags, everyone gets equal drop rates. That’s why I hate magic find, cause it’s pointless and annoying.

What he said. Or she said.

killcannon.2576:

Because guilds would never get together to make a legendary, and then sell it for the guild.

Sell it to get what for the guild? Money that they need to buy perks? Money that they need to buy gear for one of the players in the guild?

By continuously working to get money by repeating the same activity over and over again aren’t the guild members grinding?

And even if you say that no they are not grinding because they are doing activities which taken alone are not grinding because each member is not repating the same actions to such an extent that each action has become mindless and repetitive, yet taken together the actions do constitute grinding. Because once they meet their first goal, what then? Presumeably they will have to move onto goal 2 which is basically the same as goal 1 except for it is either for a different perk of a different player. By having to do all those same actions a second time the actions will probably have become mindless and repetitive since they are the exact same actions as everyone took the first time being completed in the exact same way and will thus be considered mindless and repetitive.

I realize that you tried to define grinding as a flexible unit of time and not mindless repeitition however your definition of grinding simply does not make sense as grinding was never the measure of time over which repetition occured, rather it was a measure of the enjoyment derived from repeating the same activity/ies over a period of time and not the measure of time itself.

And to be frank I feel that nothing is worse than grinding simply to get an item for someone else because then you no longer get to enjoy the fruits of your labor which only makes a grind an even larger waste of time. To be frank I’d rather be fishing than doing someone elses grinding for them, and I hate fishing.

Arcalithe.6057:

Ellisande.5218:

Arcalithe.6057:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Arcalithe.6057:

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

You’re missing my point.

I think you’re missing mine. :V

My opinion is that, so far (with maybe two story missions left to go), I like Trahearne, and that you guys are being irrational about him. I intended “proven otherwise” to be taken as “I’ll admit I was naive” if I turn out to hate his guts soon, not that preference can be “proven”.

:V

Considering that you provided no evidence in support of your assertions and actually resorted to an ad hominen attack on your opponents by saying that they must be “irrational” for taking the position they chose, and then tried to beat a hasty retreat by using the “I don’t expect an internet debate like this to end, since neither side ever seems willing to end it, so I’m not sure why I’m still replying,” you have all but affirmed that your position is untenable and that you have lost the debate.

Wait, what? I haven’t called her irrational in any way for her argument. My opinion on this Trahearne issue is that people are being irrational about their hate for him, since I don’t see what people are talking about. “Irrational” is not a bad term in this sense. It’s just my opinion that I feel like people are overreacting to him. :V Plus, how can I give proof of my personal opinion? Guess I can try.

So far it seems that he’s just been the underdog since he was introduced into the story. He hasn’t had much time to shine since it was relatively late into the story when he came in, and he’s handled himself well up to this point (which, like I said, is with maybe two missions left in the personal story for me). I feel like he’s doing the best he can, for being a scholar thrown (willingly, yes) into the position of Marshal for the combined armies of The Pact. I just think people are being too hard on him as a character. Sure, the voice acting can be iffy, but if that’s what annoys some people about him, I’d say that’s a rather trivial point to debate. Just turn off the sound and imagine the lines in Morgan Freeman’s voice, for all it matters. :P

I realize that that’s not even a reason most people give, but I have heard it said.

I’m just insulted that you think I was calling people irrational out of spite. :c I just feel that they’re overreacting to Trahearne, not calling them irrational folks in general. :c I’ve had a good time playing with the people in this game, much more so than any other MMO I’ve played thus far. The community is healthy and still gets along quite nicely! We all have our opinions, but that doesn’t keep me from getting to know someone in my guild or over map chat or something.

Sorry that I said anything. I just wanted to state my opinion. :c

“So far it seems that he’s just been the underdog since he was introduced into the story … [so] late into the story.” That’s the beginning of the problem. The problem was the way in which he was introduced, how he seizes control of the story which up until then was being directed by and for our character, the ridiculous heavy handed writing that makes him the leader of the pact even though he lacks any credentials for being chosen as the leader over our character who the story is supposed to be about. I could go on and on and on but really a good portion of the evidence was already adduced and it is not fault of ours that you refused or would unable to understand it despite there being 7 pages of it.

In order to understand a position you don’t have to believe in that position itself you just have to understand the argument which is being made, something that you have refused to do and therefore resorted to calling it “irrational” as a means to avoid having to meet it head on. But you can’t simply dodge addressing the issue just because you don’t want to put the time into reading the points that were being made.

benda.4893:

I just like how you assume that you’ve any idea what a smart developer would do.

Get over yourself.

At least I actually present an argument to support my opinion. All you did was try to belittle me.

Come back when you actually feel like presenting more than a quick jab.

I hate magic find because it makes changes to a part of the game that should already ahve been at maximum.

We shouldn’t need a special stat to have a chance at getting a drop. We should have the complete chance at the drop simply because we kill the mob.

Magic is essentially a stat that exists for its own purpose that really doesn’t add anything to the gameplay experience and which we would all be made better off by having it removed and everyone’s chance to get a good drop increased accordingly.

Stats like Vit, Healing, Precision, Power have an actual effect on the game and it is by choosing these stats that your character’s maximum effective playstyle will be determined. But magic find has no effect on how your character performs.

Jovel.5706:

Guild Wars 2 is only grindy for the people who feel entitled to a Legendary weapon. They were designed to take years to make, at least a solid year of play time to gather up all the materials and requirements to craft them. But nowadays all you have to do is spend a few hundred at an illegal gold selling website to buy them straight off the TP. So Legendary.

Now we have all these babies crying because they didn’t get their precursors in 1-2 months of playtime, wow. That’s basically the only reason why Guild Wars 2 is “SUCH A GRINDFEST AMAGAWD I’M GETTING A REFUND ARENANET YOU SUCK!”

I mean, getting exotic armor and weapons from dungeons isn’t a grind. You need 1200 per armor set? Wow, I bet that will take YEARS to achieve, huh? lol. So there’s barely a gear grind, what could be making all these babies cry so kitten hard?

Brace for it.

Cosmetic progression.

You heard right. COSMETIC progression. Boo hoo I didn’t get an unbreakable choir bell! Booooo hooo I didn’t get a everlasting/endless tonic! Booooo hoooo I didn’t get a minipet! OH MY GOD THIS TITLE IS SOOOOOO HARD . No worries though, the babies who were crying about exotic gear being too easy are now getting Ascended gear to suck up before they’re covered head to toe in Ascended gear, in which they will continue to complain for a harder, brand new tier in the treadmill.

I don’t think you could have possibly contradicted yourself more.

If Legendaries actually took a year to obtain (and were meant to take a year to obtain_ then they wouldn’t be selling regularly before the game is even one year old.

If Legendaries actually took a year of gathering materials then they take a year of grinding because a year of gathering the same materials means a year of killing the same mob over and over which is what grinding is.

Bukkebruse.2810:

Stories usually give green equipment appropriate to the story’s level requirement

You mean blue equipment one to three levels lower than the stories listed level. Somestimes you do get the odd piece of green jewelry but its mostly just blue gear and some odds and ends.

Arcalithe.6057:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Arcalithe.6057:

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

You’re missing my point.

I think you’re missing mine. :V

My opinion is that, so far (with maybe two story missions left to go), I like Trahearne, and that you guys are being irrational about him. I intended “proven otherwise” to be taken as “I’ll admit I was naive” if I turn out to hate his guts soon, not that preference can be “proven”.

:V

Considering that you provided no evidence in support of your assertions and actually resorted to an ad hominen attack on your opponents by saying that they must be “irrational” for taking the position they chose, and then tried to beat a hasty retreat by using the “I don’t expect an internet debate like this to end, since neither side ever seems willing to end it, so I’m not sure why I’m still replying,” you have all but affirmed that your position is untenable and that you have lost the debate.

Vasham.2408:

Arsenic Touch.7960:

Vasham.2408:

If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.

That would be lovely if this game actually promoted grouping, which it does not. Majority of PVE is done solo, all of your personal story except the last mission is done solo. There really is no incentive to group up at all in this game except for dungeons and those have become repetitive activities.

No excuse. There is nothing preventing you from finishing the personal story except you. You don’t want to group, so it’s your fault that you can’t complete the story. When you buy a game in a genre called “Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game” then you should not be surprised or offended when you are required at some point to play with other people.

As people far more eloquent than myself have said in the past: QQ moar, l2p

No excuse? BS!

But I shouldn’t be surprised that your entire post is nothing more than opinion given that your definition of MMORPG is actually just an incorrect opinion as well. MMORGP relates to and is defined by the simultaneous number of players logged in and does is in no way defined by how they interact with each other. While it is true that some of the first MMOs were built to require players to group up if they wanted to progress through the content or in many cases even play the game, the fact is that the genre has evolved since those first MMOs. Now it is standard for players to solo when progressing when they level. In mature MMOs it might even be impossible for players to find groups to complete group content that was easy to do when the game was new, and this is a problem that MMO developers have actually recognized and in some cases solved by either converting previous group content in low level areas into solo content, removing that content or in some way making it easier for players to group up in order to complete that content.

Obviously some newer MMOs have been released with group content in low level areas but this content was horribly implemented and was uncompleteable a few months after the game was released because it was impossible to find enough people to group with in order to finish this content (Aion). This serves as reinforcement and not refutation of the assertion that content meant to be used by players while they are leveling should not require grouping because it will become uncompleteable as players move on and there isn’t a high enough density of players in that level range and area to form a group to complete that content with.

Since this quest is part of a long quest chain that players are expected to complete while leveling then it follows that a good developer would recognize the inability of player’s to find other player’s to do this quest with and therefore inability to complete this quest and would have properly decided not to make this quest a group quest. Furthermore a smart developer would not have made group events in any areas other than the areas for maximum level characters for the same reason.

It also follows that when a quest is meant to be part of a “personal story” then it would not only be soloable but only be soloable because anything else would be impersonal and counter to the idea of being your character’s story. If you see any other player character’s character instead of yours then the story immediately ceases to be a personal story. This is also why the personal story should not have revolved around Trahearne who was clearly the developer’s player character.

Kashrlyyk.5364:

CC Meinke.2749:

This thread is meant to collect feedback regarding Trahearne and includes spoilers.

Reading the first page reminded me of this article: http://nightmaremode.net/2012/06/why-blizzards-surrogate-ruins-diablo-3-19642/

…You get the feeling from both that they’re here because one of the writers thought they were really cool and compelling and demanded they exist in this universe. And they are both the worst kind of character: the one without flaw, the one who exists solely to remind you,The Coolest Person in the Universe, that you aren’t so great.

both = Leah in Diablo 3 and Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3

I don’t think Leah in Diablo 3 and Kai Leng are equivalent. Leah is the means by which the plot revolves and allows the developer to make awesome cinematics whereas Kai Leng is your surrogate archnemesis who operates using the strongest plot armor that really does nothing more than make one plot hole after another. Kai Leng denies the player the ability to make meaningful choices within the game whereas Leah and her struggle is the plot itself.

In that instance Leah is similar to Trahearne insofar as Trahearne is what the plot comes to revolve around but dissimilar in that the plot of the personal story revolves around the player character up until you get back from Claw Island. Leah however is always the focus of Diablo 3’s plot so there isn’t really a plot hole so much as player dissapointment.

And Trahearne really does create a huge plot hole. Especially if your character is a Sylvari whose Wyld Hunt was to kill the dragons. If you are a Sylvari then you are the one who reclaimed and wielded Caladbholg, you are the one whose Wyld Hunt was slaying the Dragons and you are the Sylvari representative to the 3 orders. So why exactly does the Mother Tree give Trahearne, a necromancer, Caladbholg and not my character who is a Sylvari Guardian specialized in using Great Swords, the one who first retrieved and then used the sword? As a necromancer, Trahearne is specialized in using necromantic arts that are antithetical to the Mother’s Trees powers of life and nature which were encapsulated in the sword. Trahearne doesn’t even wear armor appropriate for fighting in melee range as necessitated by wielding a sword. He uses magic that is based on reanimating dead corpses against the will of nature. In no way does he have experience using great swords nor does he have armor appropriate for fighting enemies toe to toe.

And why does Trahearne become the Leader of the Pact and not my character? There was no sufficient justification for this plot twist when all the signs necessitated making my character the leader. While I do not argue that the story could have been written around my character not being the leader (and was) my argument is that this decision just doesn’t make any sense given the player’s expectations and desires.

Making Trahearne the wielder of Caladbholg and leader of the Pact would be like if Arthur pulled Excalibur out of the stone, handed it to Kay and then went on to live an unremarkable life as a stablehand. Actually that is exactly what happened.

I chose the vigil line too but my opinion is the complete opposite.

There I was a decorated Sylvari war hero and this uncouth Norn yokel had the audacity to call me a recruit? Me!? the character who was 12 levels higher than him and had 30 hours more combat experience than his zero hours of combat experience? If there were real RPG elements I would have killed the stinking knave for insulting me.

At that point I really couldn’t care less what he said and when he started giving his legacy speech on claw island my only thought was, “Thank god this guy’s unbearable trap is finally going to be permanently nailed shut.” And then he got replaced by my Trahearne.

My poor Sylvari probably thought she was stuck in an episode of the Twilight Zone.

Twill.6217:

I don’t know where this hate is coming from!

yes, Trahearne is not a very appealing character at first but he grows on you. he always refers to you as a “friend” and follows you everywhere. in the end, i did feel like there was a sort of bond between my character and Trahearne. although, i had wished it were more personal and less “comrade in arms” sort of way, but it is what it is.

He’s a very flawed hero and that’s the fun part in it, to be honest.

btw, i love his voice and the manner of his speech. i think it fits.

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

I could make an equally offensive sexist and illformed remark about female passivity but I at least will show some restraint.

When it comes to fiction since nothing is real and everything can only go forward by so much as it can believed, then an “inferior” male being randomly elevated into a leading role when there is a much more obvious and fitting character who actually necessitates and will be treated as if they occupied the leading role, even when it is denied them for no adequately explained reason, creates an unbelieveable progression that ruins the beleiveability of the fiction.

As was said before, everyone treats our hero as if they were the real leader, as if they were the real hero. We progress through so much of the earlier part of the game as a very, no as the most important character in the unfolding story, the one that everyone looks to for guidance and decision making. When a choice about which plan of the 3 organizations must be chosen it is our character who makes that choice. When the representatives of the 5 species are gathered to decide how to confront Zhaitan it is our character who is chosen to attend. At every turn it is our character around which the story revolves. So why does Trahearne, a man with no leadership ability, no affiliation with any of the organizations, no assocaition with any of the species leaders, no divine right or any other claim to the position other than that he was there and he wasn’t us, get the leadership position and become the fake hero?

This is even more unsightly than the Gore vs Bush election where everyone knew Gore had won yet for some strange and unfathomable reason Bush was the one inaugurated into office.

I suppose you would be ok with a mystery novel where in order to have an ending that would surprise even the sharpest and most devout mystery fan by revealing the killer to be the only person who was completely innocent and not the actual villain that the reader saw holding the smoking gun. While that certainly would be a big plot twist it would also be a complete failure of the genre where the villain has to actually be capable of being found culpable based on the tricky trail layed out by the author.

And if you cannot tell I really hate the idea of a flawed hero. The story always seems forced, as if you are reading this and nodding ok ok but always in the back of your mind is this little voice saying that it just doesn’t make sense. If the hero is flawed then by their own nature they would not be able to do what is asked of them and the only way they do manage to accomplish it is by the handwaving of the author by whos hand this character was made into a flawed hero in the first place. Authors should either make heroes who the audience believes capable of performing the task by their own natures or else they should make heroes who fail to accomplish the task because of their own flawed nature.

Also in my hate list is heavy handed story telling and unnecessary and ridiculous sacrifices. Ex when your mentor dies on claw island. There were like 300 hundred undead vaunting for that gate, it was pretty obvious that leaving one person behind the locked gate wasn’t even going to buy us one extra millisecond of time. My actual reactiion leading up to this scene was “Really Anet? Really?” I don’t even know why the undead wasted time attacking claw island. It would have been sound to simply keep their ships underwater until they reached their actual destination where they could have unloaded their entire army unmolested and then launched a surprise attack. And that clearly was the purpose and reason why they were using submersible ships.

BernardoOrel.5936:

Jennifer Hale.

Mostly this.

Also the artwork.

Corth.7069:

Just because it’s not easily accessible, doesn’t mean it’s not fair, it just means you have to work for it.

That’s like saying “I’m level 80, where’s my legendary?!” but to a lesser extent. It’s in the game, it’s available, so go get it!

And what if the only way to get a legendary was to participate in lottery where the change of winning was only 0.000001% per try. Can you still consider that available given that there is a large chance someone will never be able to acquire it simply because they weren’t lucky enough?

A lot of these complaints I see, other than Trahearne, is how Act 1 doesn’t finish the story and leaves questions.

Well that is the point of Act 1. This part of the Personal Story is to set the stage for Future Personal Stories. Act 1 was never meant to be a complete book but only the first chapter of the Book.

Where a story is supposed to be one continuous chain of events then the events which were of immediate importance in one act must maintain the same immediate importance in the next act.

Similarly some problem of high importance which was the sole cause of action in one act cannot be completely forgotten of and replaced by some problem of little or no importance in the next act because the act.

When the acts are not presented as independent storylines but instead follow a continuous chain of events then the designation of acts is simply arbitrary and potentially should not be made at all.

IceBlink.4317:

For me, the most hilarious moment after knowing a little about Destiny’s Edge is when you first properly go to Lion’s Arch, and as you go up the stairs, you see a bunch of kids of all races playing with each showing, showing how racially diverse Lion’s Arch is.

Then you stop to listen to the kids and realise they’re roleplaying as Destiny’s Edge, and picking roles… and the charr kid goes “I’m Logan, and I’m gonna run away.”

Total spit-out-drink moment there. XD

Also, after their argument and they all walk away in different directions… HEY EIR! YOU FORGOT YOUR DOG! Maybe it’s a bug or something, but Garm just stays there. XD

This was the one piece of sheer brilliance in the entire personal story.

Interestingly this also marks the high point for the personal storyline because the unnecessary deviation into the pointless organization part that occurs imeddiately after this marks the beginning of the lowest point in the personal storyline.