Yeah being situational the port can be well placed and save your bacon from lazy opponents. Bring a pet or illusion into the frey and their auto targeting will sniff you out however, and that’s a bummer. It can work however not all down state actions are awesome. Ele’s mist form in sPvP is pointless and I evil laugh when I see it where as in WvW it can be pretty good. The self res is about the best.
Well you are right in that some builds/classes are more effective than others at differing times this has always been the way in mmo’s – AOE often becoming the winner here. Personally I enjoy the thief and think there are fun variations on playing it. I don’t need to be spamming out large numbers in damage and at the moment I feel slightly kitten with S/P but I like a challenge always winning easy is no fun.
I think people have gotten used to stealth ocurring so very frequently both in attack and defense. I wonder does this particular problem affect heavily those who use D/D?
Nice thread, I used Shadowstep, infiltrators strike, PW, Steal Combo for ages in WvW allowing me to attack over huge distances instantly – plus two shadow returns if required. I play exclusively sPvP atm and there’s just not really the space for this nice chain.
Sounds reasonable ^^
Dunno if it’s just me but I find the cooldown animations a tad annoying at times, the icon will countdown it’s cooldown using the blackout animation – then go a reduced and paler version of the icon then full and ready.
I wish the middle step could really be left out, alot does be happening on screen and this is misileading at a glance.
Black countdown then simply full icon, or black then full, none of this half measure stuff.
Messies are annoying sure, but they can be beat and I’m afraid my approach involves killing their illusions because they will hit me and take me down. Locking down the Messie is also essential. They are messy however and the amount of times I would have survived had some illusion not found me wherever I as hiding… So take em’out. It’s one reason at least for thieves to use swords=cleave.
I can see what you are saying, I tend to use shadowsteps, RFI and dodge to get out of trouble. So therefore my stealth comes at moments I’m away from anyone I’d attack so this may be proccing and not bothering me in some situations and others saving my skin visibly.
I kinda play a supportish role I think, laying out aoe blasts and stinky cloud from the sb and blindness/fields and some control from S/P shaddow stepping all around (and usually end up locking down that pesky mesmer). Always equipping Refuge and using Black Powder for down allies.
I got called a noob heartseeking spammer today. Which was impressive with my sword, pistol and shortbow.
Doesn’t pose a problem for me I have to say. Pyroatheist has got the jist of it I think.
Maybe not spamming buttons could be an answer.
Hmm I dunno I could swear a warrior hit me with 16k with 100b recently when I wasn’t paying attention. PW dooes not hit for 16K. It barely hits for more than the autoattack. Just..so.slow…
Well poster you are indeed correct. I think most of the upset peeps were in WvW and and not aware a little defence goes along way. If the thief misses that whole combo that’s alot blown in one go and there’s plenty abilities to help do that for classes. It is a one trick wonder and not going to be doing other things such as stopping stomps, healing downed team mates though. I do kinda hit like a wet blanket in comparison tho, but ah well.
Well those players did not seem to be understanding of what to do with that Ele running rings round them. No better class to demonstrate that. Poster is correct in that Elmentalist has its moments – in sPvP in Spirit Watch two Ele’s running the spirit are hilarious – ride the lightning heals and whatnot, near unstoppable. These things happen however.
Yeah this has saved my bacon quite a number of times, however i don’t use CnD or rely on stealth s much. I can see however what a pain it could be, in that scenario it’s quite a borked mechanic.
I must look up this perma-evade build, its actually the way I rolled (mind the pun!) in WvW although I used food to assist that.
Yeah you have me convinced I’ll try withdraw again. I started with it then dumped it for HiS – I was noting in spvp the cast time was becoming awkward.
The good thing is that there are really many ways to play the thief which is great and keeps things fun and fresh.
As a thief I do not find thieves OP – I know what thieves do so when attacked by one I can deal with it. So much has been said about 3 shoting people and that is understandable, before the quickness nerf I did use pistol whip and found things a little easy then – however to be honest other classes hit just as hard if not harder. So at this stage as I don’t like the narrow Backstab route I’m still running D/P and S/B and do not front load much damage at all in fact most hit me harder, it is fun though and I’m kinda trying to feel for a build that sits well. I don’t think things are easy at the moment for my playstyle. One downside that’s a challenge in sPvP is dealing with mesmers – their images auto target and attack very quickly – making the slippy thief who’s manage to make the mesmer loose track of where he is vulnerable. This would be a downside of being a thief most certainly as we thrive on avoidance – any illusion/pet in the smaller confines of sPvP can be right annoying, without much effort.
Ambush would also be pretty interesting if we could position it within a range.
PW + Haste as it was, was indeed pretty powerful but the ability without it is pretty bad, like slomo without the cool effect. Now its not as good either and verging on the useless section once more. Remove the root. Auto-attacking backstabs that do double damage are probably the most OP about thieves and it almost seems we’re being corralled into using that. But no worries I’ll just try different things – the mighty Ambush was out in sPvP last night – FEAR ME COWARDS….lol, was interesting though.
It won’t matter a dandy to me. A fellow player whispered me (all in good nature) that I was a back stabbin mother___ makin’ him mad. Well with a flash of my sword and a bang of my pistol I shadow stepped away again.
lol Sovn – I played a Smuggler in SWTOR and thieves in GW2 are nothing like that – none of this wandering around in yer stealth pyjamas doing the shopping right under everybodies nose. Its a hip de hop a hippity hop business, much faster and more about mobility and shadow stepping for me. Stealth in my play style is more defensive/evasive/situational. Gw2 is much faster imo. Mind you HUTTBALL! Gw2 could almost have something like that. The only thing I miss about that game.
True indeed – D/D thieves can go down very easily. If their attention is on another target they’re dead from any one else. I’d say there are plenty other classes doing damage that don’t go down so easy.
The culling was always an issue in WvW – this doesn’t occur in sPvP, and correct it needs to be addressed as it is just silly. Backstab I would say may be a tad out of balance for an attack in an auto chain however I’ve had plenty of other classes hit me harder than a thief backstab. All said and done I don’t know what all the fuss is about, I see other classes looking strong and well played and D/D thieves who have caused all the ruckus don’t really register too much on my Kablammo scale.
Dunno mate you may be running the wrong build for zerg work. I’ve never ran D/D btw not a fan of that kinda one track spec- WvW always requires for me defensive aspects for survival. I wouldn’t be running around with less than 16K health – and I always equip some escape skills – my Spvp build is different. In WvW I use mango pie thingy and enable myself with being able to evade with rolls getting swiftness like a monkey stacking might at the same time. I think escaping alive is about as essential as killing so shadow step is a staple survival skill along with that. With that tbh I rarely die in WvW, well that and positional awareness. Shadowsteps not only enable me to attack over distance extremely fast but to get out darn quickly too if it goes pies up. Especially if you’re a part of a zerg you need ports back out stealth in AOE is still getting hit.
I used to WvW exclusively and not sPvP – because WvW is why I played mmo’s and I never really got the hang of my thief class in sPvP, however I changed recently and have been playing sPvP exclusively OP, its a blast. I got fed up running around in WvW for about 3 minutes before finding a fight I guess. Whether I’m a rubbish thief or not doesn’t matter I top charts and sometimes bottom them, but I find it great fun. I run S/P and SB (I have never been able to bring myself to play the very over subscribed D/D) – using Basilisk Venom and Haste (which I never used in WvW) with shadowstep and Refuge. I think its an all rounder helping me rez downed team mates as well as dish out decent damage with mobility. I think PW is unfortunately not so useful without Haste and that’s not ideal but it works for me. I use SB probably to do most of my damage in certain situations I’m banging out the damage and people are ignoring the guy with the tiny bow. Tournament PvP is different and I’ve never played that and I’d assume it would require very different skillsets and playstyle in co-ordination. I think sPvP is kinda hectic and fun and whether you play a certain build or class may not be as important – it seems to me – mostly people queue up individually. So try out sPvP with your thief its quick and fun. Tournament PvP may require more of a rethink, but I consider sPvP just plain old fun.
Yeah its not so much stealth as in running around and other classes have abilities that make them disappear too, so I don’t feel particularly stealthy. I use stealth usually defensively, shadow stepping I would consider more integral to my playing. Attacks from stealth occur off the hip very much not a case of a stealth assassin setting a killer attack. When Backstab thieves do this on me there’s alot that can be done to avoid it so nope I don’t consider thieves particularly stealthy by nature – more slippy just. Some don’t even use it.
Someone’s actually using traps – must try that again sometime.
Porbably should change the name from last Refuge to – Yer Buggeredd.
Yeah sounds bad – with the latest changes I’ve noticed the revealed debuff much more. Its no biggie but it does make this trait a problem child, very much so.
On the other hand we should also make everyone have the same downed skills, lets face it mesmers seem to in the lead here as well – thieves’ very predictable port then blinding powder is very easy to deal with. the downed state is something I have a love hate relationship with. Sometimes i think its good other times its just so annoying. As stated many classes have tools to down the downed however.
I think the mechanics are fine the way they are – we could suggest an ability that makes the next attack unblockable but that would be far too much. When I see a guardian blocking and I’m able to, I’m waiting for the right time to use my attacks. Although many think they must use D/D because backstab is the biggets hitter I think there are lots of ways a thief can be played and don’t feel we need anything additional like striking through blocking. Stealth is there and we can wait for opportune attacks – like a thief. I feel in Warhammer Online the % mechanics such as parry and the “can not be blocked” Pocket Items just dumbed down the playing greatly. GW2 is a much more fluid and fun game.
Oddly I have started playing sPvP again – rather than WvW – man it’s a hectic different game. My weapons of choice there currently are sword/pistol – Although I switched from S/P in WvW to S/D. I still find the root associated with Pistol Whip annoying however I’m running Haste in sPvP. In WvW I think haste is a waste in the bigger picture and being rooted by your own attack in a cluster kitten of aoe is deadly. So nope S/P isn’t dead just D/D damage is so much higher in burst. However topping sPvP score sometimes due to not actually dying, ressing other players killing and capturing points is done by having S/P which has multiple uses i.e. shadowstep – black powder – →stoppastomp. Hitting PW with haste can hit pretty hard too when applied correctly with a Steal in the middle specced with Sleight of Hand .
If there aren’t any by this stage there won’t be, however there are indeed many have another look. Google is your friend.
Edenwolf – having played S/P for quite sometime it roots and controls the thief more than the enemy. It’s most useful when combined with haste or a venom. if you like double tapping abilities. Smart players are rolling out of it’s range. It’s good against mobs at most and in some situations; going through the sword Slice combo keeps you moving and does as much damage as pistol whip. Another alternative would be pistol whip combo with Mug traited with the 1 second stun from Trickery – haven’t tried that one yet.
I like potatoes
My things break mighty easy round here. Backstabbing is for Kittens, pistol whip is just not practical no matter what you eat the point of a thief is NOT to stand still.
Someone in my guild once said WvW was the same at lvl 12 as lvl 80. Well that was a load of rubbish the early levels are far too early to judge and after playing a thief since pre-launch it takes time to learn about any class. As for the thief being played – its fun edge of your seat type stuff, I think other classes would be more straight forward hence I’ve never been tempted to play another – its all about keeping moving and dancing about and reactions are important. Gw2 never ceases to amaze me that when lag isn’t happening the gameplay is so arcade like and fast.
3 hour stealth would eliminate the culling issue. There just wouldn’t be one.
Good points I’ve meaning to try this skill again, I use ShadowStep all the time.
Always good to hear of alternative builds. When I played Warhammer Online I had 36 key binds however I feel Gw2 is a vastly more fluid and varied game with 10 key binds. There is always more than one way to play a class I believe in Gw2.
Oddly I died rarely when leveling in WvW, this I assume is because I played a WH in Warhammer. The guys are right rock the SB and partake of events and take pistol and sword along for taking control points and camps. With Black Powder I wonder how low you could actually be to take a camp solo. You’ll level 80 in no time. PvE lvl 80 on the other hand..yawn…
Who is thieve, is he some dude on a French server? Well I don’t know either because I stomped him and dated his auntie before the culling wore off.
Yes should really say on dodge – I always assumed that’s what is was anyway and I use it all the time.
Having read a few posts I may actually try RFI again, and maybe a few others. Its always good to change up for the fun.
I tried RFI at the start as it does look great on paper but I found it eventually quite limiting. With Shadowstep it is boogie nights, I certainly don’t hit hard at all but I sure do survive better than most. Started using mango something or other for might stack and 40% vigor regen – it’s quite fun. Doing the boogiestep switching and plying SB trickshots keeps the pressure on loads. I’m sure I do most of my damage with the SB. Peeps are getting wise now laying down the aoe attacks so I think it must be harder running around in stealth. Boogie steppin in and out like the hokey kokey is what its all about.
Took a while but I wouldn’t event consider slotting SOS now even when running across empty map using a bow, shadowstep and swiftness from my dodge’s gets me there pretty quick. Shadowstep is certainly a life saver for me and I use it as an offensive and defensive ability with it and number 2 from sword I can make some serious swift ground when ambushing someone and get out if the cull has surprised a zerg around me. refuge I think is a WvW team choice it can be countered however i revive many many allies with this as well as using it for other reasons. I run the Agility signet for precision, refilling endurance (for more dodge/swiftness/might) and removing a condition. Works nicely. Might throw in Haste the odd time, but its pretty constant in WvW – so yeah agree I wouldn’t run without Refuge and Shadowstep – RFI just seems clunky in comparison.
I like to do The Hustle – so shadow stepping is much more fun than back stabbing for me
Correct because the AI breaks combat when you stealth. ^^ is the way to go.