Guild Wars 2

I’m saying the speedrunning dungeons is a niche thing. The entire meta revolves around them, but ignores the fact that not everyone is trying to break records. Why does it matter to the average player if your CoF1 run can either take 5 mins or 15 mins?

On top of that, higher level fractal content really can’t be sped up or cheesed as the mechanics of the fight warrant a different style of play entirely.

The relevancy of difficulty is in regards to the BUILD of the professions. And if you actually read what Anet says about the Mesmer, they do care about the difficulty of the professions in relation to one another.

The issue with the 2~3 kit meta build has two factors to it: 1) its high APM and skill requirement which leads to 2) it’s the only build that’s linked where other classes have different builds that are considered viable at end-game.

This creates artificially difficulty for someone wanting to pick up the class. But unlike the Mesmer that the devs have stated that they design the profession to be more difficult to play, this is created by the community who only links one build. Not only that, but again…some players might not like the playstyle.

There is always 1 optimal build but always a variety of viable builds. The point of this thread was to fix the issue the community created with the all or nothing build that engineers use. I knew the SD build was good enough to finish up world completion, but I didn’t think it was still considered viable for dungeons. And now i know. I like to play non-optimal, but viable builds as I can’t always rely on a steady connection or computer throughout a fight.

You’re reading things that don’t exist. The devs literally said that Mortar Kit will be long range with fields. Just because it has fields doesn’t mean that it’s support. One of the strongest Ele abilities is a field, but it does a ton of damage (comparable to 100b over the course of a fight).

And…according to…the wiki, and the game, kits are listed under utility, not weapons. And none of those kits listed have cleave. AE? Yes. Cleave? No.

At the end of the day, we don’t know (at least until Monday’s livestream) what’s coming with Mortar Kit.

Terrahero.9358:

Grenade kit was a good kit. It was optimal at close range, but safe at long range, exactly as the devs intented melee vs range to work. All build into one kit. Mortar kit will likely be the same anyway with those slow projectiles.

But that means we’re trading a kit that we know worked, and worked for both power and condition builds (even hybrids) and took up a utility slot, to now using our elite slot and hopefully getting something that is just as good as the Grenades were.

They gutted the Grenade kit to make the Mortar more interesting. I don’t applaud that, that’s just lazy imo. “One of their elites is aweful. Lets just take something good they have that isnt an elite and make it an elite”.
Mortar kit could’ve been made just the way they are now without gimping Grenades.

This whole thing also doesn’t sit well when they say they give Guardians ranged because they think Guardians lacked range. But a profession that is even more limited in range has it’s range nerfed, and the spec is another melee range weapon. They did exactly what Engineers did not need.

I’d have to disagree with this. The issue is that putting all those eggs into one basket makes everything else lackluster in comparison. Grenades were good in comparison to everything else, but they did have some fundamentally prevalent weaknesses (at least if you’re like me and run a ton of Fractals).

Projectile reflection completely screws the kit over. It’s the hard counter to the kit. (Not that I’m complaining about that, just a fact.) It relies on your target staying in one place and/or having predictable movement patterns. (There are a few bosses that teleport around randomly, and sometimes my own group has screwed me over with poor range tactics.)

As far as I recall, the only skill Grenade kit is losing is the 5 skill. Really, putting those on a dedicate kit to launch fields is better because grenades are unpredictable in their landing. Secondly, the shorter range with the ability to speed up the time of flight reduces the impact that unpredictable movement has on the kit. It’ll be MORE effective at longer range than now.

From what the devs have made clear is that they don’t want Grenades to be our ranged kit. They are building a kit that’s specific for ranged (mortar). We don’t know how that will act and interact with everything else so it’s too kitten early to judge its worth.

Lastly, I COMPLETELY disagree that Hammer wasn’t needed. The only real AE builds that Engineer has are reliant on kits. We lack any real melee cleave outside of them. That’s fine IF you want to run kits, but then that limits players who don’t want to run kits. Personally, I don’t mind running kits every once in awhile in PvE or any time I hop into WvW, but I’m excited for a new possible kit-less build. IDC if it’s not the optimal build. As long as it’s viable and looks cool, that’s good enough for me.

robertul.3679:

Why do these threads exist? You want to run a good build run meta. You refuse to do that, just run whatever the kitten you want.

The issue is that “meta” is for speed-running dungeons which focuses on high burst damage and killing mobs as quickly as possible. In reality, it’s a very niche set-up where you can control the bosses movements and have players stack on a boss. The 3 kit meta HAS to have these in order to work. Hell, even Nades alone need this to work.

The problem is that this isn’t a feasible assumption in Fractals (of any level) and some dungeon PUGs. The other issue is that most other professions have alternative builds that can yield more practical DPS in the hands of a casual to midcore player not in an organized group. Engineer only has the 3 kit build that is on meta-battle.

The third issue is that the build is a unique playstyle. Normally, I play an Elementalist, so I’m used to a similar playstyle. However, I’d like to play something else as an Engineer. Not only that, but I don’t find multi-kits to be fun. I find the builds to be very tedious to learn the rotation itself, on top of relying on the rest of my group to keep the boss in one place as much as possible so I can get the maximum effectiveness out of the build.

There should be alternative builds that are still viable AND shared by the community. Otherwise the barrier to entry for engineers is going to be artificially inflated. That’s bad because as Anet is a metric heavy company Engineers will have less data. Sure, you might not get more people playing the meta, but having multiple builds to build up to the meta build in terms of difficulty will be infinitely more helpful than having a PLAY ONLY THIS ONE SPECIFIC BUILD attitude.

sorrychief.2563:

Post a few pics of flamethrower 11111 dps getting up to 10-20k+ and newer players might assume flamethrower autoattack is a high dps weapon.

Hah! Until retal in HotW and CoE ends up killing them!

Arantheal.7396:

Keep in mind that all decent engi builds come with high APM-requirements, but nothing a gaming-wouse couldn’t fix instantly for you.

Here are a couple of niche builds (exotic) that work for various situations.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErtdx8KseNSbBNqwA6TMi2+5CEgjC-TRSBwAFV6FRJoUlBDV/h4+Do0Bgw8HgLAQ+HAApAiYoF-e
A simple nade-spammer that keeps vuln on 25 stacks and comes with a wall of reflection. Decent compensation for a lacking guardian. If a guardian is in the group, wait until his wall of reflection has timed out before you try with toss elixir U. Keep in mind that you should keep blunderbus and jumpshot on cd as well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrtdxLLseNSbBNqwA6TMiW/5FEgkC-TRSBwAFV6FRJoUlBDV/h4+Do0Bgw8HgLAQ+HAApAiYoF-e
A simple bombkit build with bunker down and automated bomb dispenser. Awesome blind uptime, defiance/boon rip and might stacking. While bunker down is useless against static (or properly stacked) bosses, subject alpha in CoE will trigger all mines quite regularly when spawning his grubs, so this build features one of the highest dps you can get against him on engi. throw mine should be used when the boss has no defiance and be thrown outside of the stack to push the boss into the wall, so you can continue using BoB without fearing of breaking the stack.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpkrtdxmKseNSeBN6kclpA6Asgq+p6B-TRSBwAFV6FRJoUlBDV/h4+Do0Bgw8HgLAQ+HAApAiYoF-e
A PvE-viable s/d variant that should solve your issue with mobile bosses. The dmg increases if there are multiple targets for s/d to bounce from, else it delivers above average, but reliable dps.

Awesome! Thanks for the builds! I didn’t know if SD builds were still viable in PvE. I use a modified version (change traits around to get Power Shoes) for finishing map completion on my Engie. Much appreciated

Besides the 2~3 kit builds, what are some alternative builds for PvE engineers? The last time I tried to play engineer inside of a Fractal, the group was so uncoordinated that the boss was moving around too much for the majority of my grenades to land. I don’t come up with this issue in dungeons (or at least the few I do) since the majority of players know how to stack.

On top of that, there really are no builds that I can recommend to my friends who want to get into engineer more as they play it very casually, but would like to do dungeons.

Are there any builds that we can all come up with for lower end PvE for now to start getting people interested in Engineer?

I doubt it. Everyone says how FGS was nerfed to the ground, but, when I started playing Ele a couple years ago, it was known that the 4 skill was not implemented as intended. I recall the majority of the Ele forums at the time saying that it was good to learn how to use it, but that it wouldn’t last long.

There are three major differences between the changes that happened to the FGS and the one that will happen to LH. While the LH isn’t being used as intended, it’s not breaking mechanics. To this day, people still stack bosses on a wall even though just stacking out in the open is a better strategy (so thieves can backstab easier). The LH isn’t exploiting a flaw like FGS was. The second is that the FGS nerf came in a balance patch while the LH nerf is coming in a pre-xpac patch. Generally, an expansion is where the developers can do a LOT of changes to the base code. It’s a much bigger and more extensive patch than any feature pack ever can be. This leads to the third difference is that the devs have stated, according to Rising Dusk, that they don’t want to remove the current Sc/F + LH build. This nerf will focus more on balancing the LH than removing an exploit like FGS. Yes, I’m being optimistic with things because none of this is implemented yet and there’s no point in being so kitten ed negative about it. Once it’s out, then feel free to critique it as harshly as possible.

I don’t take anything from a PvP point of view. I’m not good at sPvP and really don’t like small-scale PvP (though it’s more fun in this game than most).

I’d still have to agree that the nerf for conjures (at least IB and LH) is justified. I’ve given my opinion on what should be done to IB to keep its utility (keeping the 4 ability strong against structures and world bosses as well as CC) while nerfing it’s overall damage for normal mobs.

What LH needs is something useful besides the auto-attack. That’s just boring and cheesy. This is why I recommended removing the charges and nerfing the auto-attack by spreading the AE blind and blast finisher to other abilities. (Maybe put one on the two ability and change the 4). If you can use the LH to give another party member a blast finisher or AE blind, then it increases its group utility without completely destroying the use for the conjured weapon.

The issue I think that Anet has with IB (at least in PvE) is that it’s a mandatory damage increase for the Elementalist (and the group). The standard utility set up of Arcane Blast, Glyph of Storms, and IB has group coordination and flexibility with the first two…and REALLY selfish and mandatory in the latter. Blast is a blast finisher, so while a bit boring, it does require some coordination to use properly to give the maximum benefit. Even if someone puts another field on top of yours, it still aids the team (even if it is less damage). Glyph of Storms having two main uses (vulnerability stack in air and blind in earth) can be supplanted by other professions. Put an engineer in the group, and the Ele can grab a different skill in that slot.

Really, change how the IB4 does its damage and don’t let the 5th ability count towards the 20% increase to CC’d mobs (at least in PvE), and that should remove it being mandatory for almost every fight. At that point it’ll be most useful in say CoF2’s final boss which is a structure. (So niche use)

Laraley.7695:

Fade.1743:

I’d agree with this if and only if conjures weren’t balanced or played around near 100% upkeep. This makes them too close to being like kits for engineers. If they acted more as a cooldown for some increased damage in certain situations, then I’d totally agree with you.

I’d say the best way around this would be for the Ele to only be able to use the conjured weapon that automatically equips (that way group members can always be free to pick up the second one), remove the charges and make the duration between 50~75% of the CD. On top of actually changing the abilities of the conjures themselves.

I don’t mind if a weapon set (like Sc/F) is built around using LH. I just don’t want to end up in a situation like engineers where the only viable build in PvE (at least that anyone talks about) ends up being a 2-3 conjure weapon build. That was my main concern in the first post.

Hm, no. Engis use all skills in kits, every ele uses only #4 on IB and then drops it. It’s 20 sec cd, how is that 100% uptime?

LH is a different story, but IB and LH are the only usable conjure weapons along with fgs. Two of these weapons are used only for one or two skills. Quite long cds if you ask me.

Actually, they only use a few skills, but regardless, the issue that I have is in order to play an engineer in PvE you have to use kits. I don’t want conjures to be in the same boat. I’m not saying if you want to use conjures that you should be punished for it. Yes, there’s always going to be one optimal option, but there shouldn’t only be one viable one as well. (At least one viable one that the community only talks about)

I know the IB is currently used for 3~5 in the current version before being dropped. My comments about upkeep were in regards to LH. Sorry for confusion on that.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Fade.1743:

I’d have to disagree almost entirely up until that last sentence. If conjured weapons do more damage than our normal attunements, then they will be required in order to builds for damage. Not only that, but since we have to use both of them to get our highest damage output in this scenario, then someone grabbing our second conjure and using it lowers our output.

I appreciate your sentiment, but I think you have it backwards. Because of the long cooldowns associated with conjured weapons, they need to—while active—be stronger than our other options. If that is not the case, then they are neither worth the utility slot nor the DPS/utility loss. This is especially true on an Elementalist who already has four attunements worth of skills to utilize without cutting into their utility usage.

Anet just hasn’t found the sweet spot where a conjured weapon is worth taking for certain situations or certain builds without deadening the playstyle of the rest of the Elementalist. Certain skills on them are too strong compared to other skills, resulting in them carrying the value of the weapon and turning into a singular-use utility when it was not intended to be so.

For everyone’s benefit here, I’ll quote something I said in the dungeon forum the other day.

Rising Dusk.2408:

For reference, Lightning Hammer is something I’ve already talked to them [developers] about and they had this to say:

• They don’t want to remove builds (ie. S/F) from play.
• They recognize the impact a nerf to LH would have on the S/F build’s viability in PvE.
• The balance team is making changes to the Elementalist based on player feedback.

I’d agree with this if and only if conjures weren’t balanced or played around near 100% upkeep. This makes them too close to being like kits for engineers. If they acted more as a cooldown for some increased damage in certain situations, then I’d totally agree with you.

I’d say the best way around this would be for the Ele to only be able to use the conjured weapon that automatically equips (that way group members can always be free to pick up the second one), remove the charges and make the duration between 50~75% of the CD. On top of actually changing the abilities of the conjures themselves.

I don’t mind if a weapon set (like Sc/F) is built around using LH. I just don’t want to end up in a situation like engineers where the only viable build in PvE (at least that anyone talks about) ends up being a 2-3 conjure weapon build. That was my main concern in the first post.

Spyritdragon.6048:

I’m honestly very scared for these nerfs. Not because i dont think they need nerfs, but because they shouldn’t be overnerfed.
In my opinin, though, these conjure weapons -should- be powerful! Any conjure weapon should make your first 5 skills worth more, have some improvement over any regular weapon. Youre sacrificing a utility slot to access a temporary skill bar you cant swap back and forth to with limited uses, so in my opinion this bar should be significantly better than your normal attunement bars, and i’m afraid they’ll just nerf it to the ground. Just like many of the transform elites.
When you replace your skill bar for a fixed one you can’t swap with, and sacrificing a utility slot to do so, you should gain a very significant boost to the power of that skill bar. Or at least get crazy utility or so.

I’d have to disagree almost entirely up until that last sentence. If conjured weapons do more damage than our normal attunements, then they will be required in order to builds for damage. Not only that, but since we have to use both of them to get our highest damage output in this scenario, then someone grabbing our second conjure and using it lowers our output.

I agree that LH and IB need to be nerfed damage-wise. Really, what’s super-strong on IB in PvE at least is the 4 ability. The simple solution would be to make it unable to crit and remove the bleed stacks (while increasing the raw damage). This will allow it to retain its utility for being able to destroy structures better than any other ability without making it better in a larger sense.

LH needs to have its utility and damage moved away from the autoattack and spread out more. The blind and blast on auto-attack should be moved to their own ability. While this won’t increase its use in general PvE groups, that’s a good thing.

IMO, conjures should each have their own niche uses. The Elementalist should sacrifice damage in order to bring some extra utility to a certain fight and on top of that allow another party member to bring that utility as well. No conjure build should EVER be built around hogging both of the conjures.

As long as we get something that can compete with 2-3 kit builds in PvE (though not outshine them completely), I’d be happy for whatever. (Or just give the grenade kit it’s kitten ed auto-attack.)

I don’t like being shoe-horned into only 1 build per profession. Yeah, I know that every profession has one optimal build, but they all have variations of viable builds that are easier to learn. I like the engie has high skill cap to play to its best…I don’t like that there’s no way to climb up to that skill cap without going up a cliff. Especially since I don’t run with consistently good groups. So even a full grenade build is…almost pointless.

Raif.9507:

Mantras? Definitely not. Too long of a cast time and mesmers would have a fit the size of Texas if they made them instacast or shorter casts. Deceptions/Tricks on the other hand would fit in great with the main hand sword as it could give elementalists access to much needed mobility/evades to pull off a true melee weapon.

Umm…two things:

1. You’re supposed to cast mantras before combat to have them ready. They activate instantly once readied…so idk wtf you’re going on about with cast times.

2. At least for PvE the main Mesmer mantras are the healing one, the cleansing one, and the stun-break/AE stability one. (I don’t remember the names really.) Again, I take everything from a PvE standpoint because I hate sPvP and don’t do enough WvW. Also the majority of the playerbase is PvE oriented so that’ll have more weight than the other two.

My suggestion is to give us long range damage and/or condition options. These would not overlap with the main mesmer mantras as those are support mantras. Not only that, but also Mesmers would have stronger mantras regardless due to having more specializations with traits to improve them. Essentially, what I’m saying is comparing my idea for mantras is like comparing Reaper shouts to Guardian shouts. Two different beasts. (Yes, they can be compared but fewer similarities).

As for mobility, yes, I agree. But I don’t think it should come from utilities. I think the mobility should be baked into the Sword (or w/e melee weapon we get). This is because making it a utility would allow D/D to get an entire slew of mobility while it has good enough. I’d agree that yes it could have more…however…let’s remember the playerbase…and that nerfs come from the lowest common denominator.

Between Dagger and Focus, we’ve got a wide variety of offhand skills. However, we lack real melee cleave. Lightning Whip is fine, but that’s all we have outside of conjures. And even then, it’s not really that good of a melee cleave.

Our main-hands (at least from a PvE point of view) are quite…lacking. D/F is a great build; however, it requires the rest of your team to do their job in order to pull off the rotation. And in PvE it’s only really used for 3 abilities, Fire 3 for fire field, water 3 for blast finisher, and Lightning Whip. I know it’s much more versatile in PvP and WvW, but the majority of the players are in PvE so that should be taken into consideration.

Scepter…really is not that great. It’s great for might stacking, but D/F can compete with it without worrying about someone picking up your second lightning hammer. Great for burst, but only speed-running really focuses on burst and Staff does that super well.

I’m not really going to comment on Staff. Mostly because even if Tempest SUCKS for PvE, the standard staff build is getting a buff in the specializations. So the playstyle can stay the same…if not become better.

As for Tempest, I hope for Sword. Mostly because I want to be a battle-mage. As for traits, while I think traps would work, I’d hope for mantras. Mostly because we have enough long range AE abilities. What we need is some ranged single target. And mantras could…say…have different effects depending on which attunement they were cast in like glyphs. However, unlike glyphs, you can “store” the effect. So say we have a condition mantra. If you cast it in earth, it stores the ability to make your target bleed. Swap to air (which has no bleeds at all) and use the mantra. Now we’ve got access to conditions no matter what spec we’re in.

Besides the skin unlocks, it’s really not worth it to get the Karma gear in the Orr temples on an Ele. It’d be better to get either a full set of exotic berserker armor and weapons (or what I do is Valk armor with zerker weapons and trinkets). If you can’t afford that, rare armor works as well. Most dungeons are balanced around using rare armor (regardless of what people want).

I don’t see the point in giving us ANOTHER button (or group of buttons) to use. That’s just more they have to balance and more for us to learn.

Really, they need to just tighten up our current mechanics and balance them better (as in, split PvE and PvP). Our profession mechanic is a pretty solid and interesting one as it is.

Probably best to do 3 first that way you’ve got burning on the target for extra damage on other abilities.

Gorani.7205:

I know it is not much, but as I said: There is not many new game mechanics out there (already teased) that are left for the flavour of the Ele or Tempest class that got people super excited.

Condi cap reworked => Ele still is bad at condis
Taunt => seems to fit other classes better, we know a few core classes get it (+ Revenant)
Alacrity / Haste / Quickness => whatever you want to call it in the end, this is the field of the Mesmer / Chronomancer

Resistance is missing from the trait revamp from the core Elementalist (other professions like the Thief or the Warrior get it in some form) and could be an option for the Tempest – but is that really exciting?
The current Cantrip meta (instant cast, might as the most important offensive boon coupled with the defensive orientation of most Cantrips etc.) already has a tendency to “bunker” without losing too much offensive abilities. Do we need another variant of that with Tempest?

Tempest sounds like high speed and/or transformations, perhaps summons of small storm fields. But if you look at how adamantly the Devs kept the double cool down on Ride the Lightning and the un-noticeable 10% speed increase in Air for the minor trait, it is fair to allow me some doubts for the “high speed” Ele variant.
The also took away mobile Ranger spirits. I don’t think they would put things they don’t like on the Tempest (mobile storm fields).

Perhaps I am awed by the reveal. I don’t know yet.
I would love to be, because the Tempest might be the only thing that gets the Ele out of the corner it currently is.

Few things:
The changes to condition caps aren’t guaranteed. The changes to burn and poison aren’t guaranteed. Anet is playing around with the idea.

I agree with the idea for taunt, though.

Alacrity, Haste, and Quickness are different things. Alacrity is a Mesmer only buff (not boon) that reduces cooldowns by 66%. Quickness is a boon that decreases activation time of abilities by 50%. Haste is a Thief skill that grants Quickness and prevents Endurance from regeneration. (Nitpicky on the last part)

Quickness is something I can see Tempests getting a lot.

As for Resistance, given how many condition cleanses we have, I doubt we’ll ever have more than a couple sources of it. To me, it seems like a boon for professions that want to keep conditions on them, like Mallyx Revenants and Necromancers.

I do agree that Tempest will most likely be high mobility damage. I doubt it’d be transformation based as then we’d run into the same issues we have with conjures. My guess is that the sword will have a few finishers since all main hand weapons do, but unlike dagger, it’ll actually be a full melee weapon, not close range magic weapon. So we’ll actually (hopefully) have some cleave and chain effects (so we have an AA worth using).

I get the feeling that Elite specializations might be revealed in the reverse order of profession reveals so Tempest could be the last. To me, this would explain why they showed the specialization stuff in terms of Elementalist initially. (That, and/or because the different specializations make more sense on an Ele as an initial example)

Really, I’m just excited for something new to run around in for PvE.

I’m hoping the Elite spec gives an alternative option to the 3 kit (which will probably morph to 4 kit with Mortar) build in PvE. I like that there is a difficult build that is rewarding to those that want to play it, but there should be an alternative (that’s not the optimal build, but still viable) that doesn’t use 3 utility kits.

I do like the Invention Blast+Heal support. While it does seem broken on paper, I think this could be a new type of support. From a PvE point of view, that setup compliments the fire field blasting support while providing its own.

At the end of the day, I just want to smash things with a hammer, use non-kit utilities, and still be viable in dungeons and Fractals.

Ah, welp that sucks. Thanks for the advice.

Right now, I run my engineer as an alt and I’d like to occasionally dip into dungeons and some lower level Fractals (1~29). The current meta build is a bit too complex for my tastes and I don’t run in a dedicated team so I can’t guarantee that the boss will be able to stay on the bombs. (In fact I PuG most content.)

Since there are no alternate builds with a lower skill cap (and better suited for PuGs), I was curious as to the opinion on a build an Alternate Grenadier build.

I know it’s not going to give near the amount of benefits as the 3 kit build, but most groups I run into usually have better sources of might than Fire Bomb. I’m just looking for a viable alternative to the more complex meta that I can dip in and out of.

((Note: I did TRY to learn the meta. It’s just a bit too much and I’d like to have an easier build to play with until Hammer Engie drops))

We don’t know what Anet is going to do exactly. We know they’re nerfing damage because conjures in some parts just cheesed mechanics. I disagree completely that conjures NEED to be broken in order to be worth the utility slot. We can’t ask for challenging content AND defend methods of cheesing the challenge out of the content.

I do agree that each conjure needs to have a niche. Something that our weapons alone can’t fill. But they don’t need to be broken to do so.

For instance, I think the best way to nerf IB 4 without removing the utility is not allowing it to crit, removing the bleed component, and increasing the base damage to compensate. This way it’s still a good ability against structures and world bosses, but on regular bosses, Meteor Storm will be better for an Elementalist. (Though you CAN still use IB4 between Meteor Storms and get another one from another player).

So, you guys have some insight as to the exact changes for the Ice Bow other than what was said in the AMA yesterday?

Because all I heard is that they’re removing the cheese of push 4 then ignore. Considering the new, shiny Defiance bar…you don’t think that Ice Bow might end up doing something more than push a button to use before having an empty utility slot?

“If your build is still intact by the end of this, let us know so we can break it.”

I’d also add in that I haven’t played S/F and mostly played S/D when I did run around with a Scepter. (And I spent a LOT of time with that build. Also I come from a PvE perspective of this, mostly doing a few dungeons and a LOT of Fractals.)

I honestly don’t think the new air talents would work well with Scepter in general. In any case, I’m just saying that we shouldn’t keep such a negative attitude until we get our hands on things. On paper, this all looks like crap. In the game, it might be completely different.

It isn’t in its current form. Seeing as utilities and traits are getting a look over to be more viable, do you really think that weapon skills aren’t as well?

Honestly, the way to keep Scepter relevant in PvE is to focus it around conditions since conditions are getting a huge look over as well. The majority of the time I spent on my Ele was playing a S/D FA build. (No conjures.) Was it sub-optimal? Yeah. Did I have fun with a viable build? Absolutely. However, we also need to keep it different from what’s coming in the future. I think conjures should have the role of on-demand burst instead of Scepter.

The thing is that they want to change how LH and IB are used. LH is used to spam autoattack. Boring. Why do we waste a utility slot to spam an auto-attack? Yes, I know that it has AE blind and a blast finisher at the end. That doesn’t mean it’s a cheesy set-up that’s boring. Ice bow (at least in PvE) is usually cast 4 on boss and then drop. Useful on structures, but still…boring.

People complain about no changes to dungeons. The reason there aren’t changes to dungeons is because the entire meta is built around cheesing bosses as quickly as possible. Now there might other changes coming down the road. We’ve got a new Elite spec we know very little about. We should not look at one change in a vacuum.

An expansion is supposed to shake the game’s very foundation. You can’t build a second story on a house whose foundation can only sustain one story. Treat an expansion like almost a new game rather than a feature pack.

Devildoc.6721:

Fade.1743:

Lightning Hammer was boring as hell and you only used it for the auto-attack.

Remember that the nerfs and buffs are being considered in conjunction with the Elite Spec. Which we only know is called Tempest and MAY wield a sword that’s an actual melee weapon. Considering that possibility, I can see why LH was brought down.

It absolutely kills scepter builds that focus on stacking might though, because scepter sustained damage is A WkittenL.

Since the advent of Phalanx Strength, Staff Ele meta, and Zehlyn’s D/F build, what life did Scepter builds have in PvE? They had the burst of LH, but that was not unique to Scepter.

Now, remember there are a lot of changes coming to condition builds and Scepter could be retuned to be our Condition weapon (since Burning now stacks as well). We also don’t know the full range of changes made to Ele and the entire game.

Until we get into an actual beta weekend event, there’s NO reason to judge the future of the profession based on changes that aren’t finalized. It’s an exercise in futility at this point. Once a large playerbase gets to interact with everything, THEN we should look to judge and critique how things ACTUALLY play rather than how we THINK they’ll play.

Lightning Hammer was boring as hell and you only used it for the auto-attack.

Remember that the nerfs and buffs are being considered in conjunction with the Elite Spec. Which we only know is called Tempest and MAY wield a sword that’s an actual melee weapon. Considering that possibility, I can see why LH was brought down.

I’d prefer just a Main Hand Sword.

Mostly because our two off-hands (Dagger and Focus) have a very broad range of utility that I don’t see what another off-hand could add. Dagger could compliment a playstyle that focuses more on leaps and heavy offense (which I’d presume sword would have) while Focus compliments needing defense and blast finishers (which main hand Dagger has)

Astralporing.1957:

At least some of the dev statements seem to imply, that the core areas of the game will no longer be changed at all, and future changes will be limited to HoT (and possible next expansions) regions.

Except mastery lines. Those will be added in. And areas to unlock masteries. Those will be added in. And the devs have stated that they might want to add in some of the new things in HoT zones into the base zones. Plus the updates to Fractals coming with their mastery line. Also Precursor hunting.

The core area of the game will be getting updated in this expansion. Is it as much as new areas and areas to come? No. Is it being ignored? No.

Initially, I made my current Ele when Celestial Gear was coming to the game. After seeing what a good D/D Ele could pull off in terms of group content, it appealed to me than other classes. Once I hit level cap, I swapped to a Fresh Air S/D build (no conjures) and played that until my keyboard quit working.

Once I came back after a break from the game, I started playing Staff Ele. While a good deal simpler, I’ve really gotten into it. I always like playing mages, but what bored me was that I was stuck in one spot and casting from safety. Staff Ele has what I like about the classic MMO mage and removes the one thing I hate.

I’m VERY eager to see what our specialization will be. I’m really hoping we get a sword for a proper melee weapon. (And it’d fit my character more than any weapon we currently have)

We had a stress test in PvE. We did NOT have a beta (PvE-wise). It was just the PAX demo.

I’m waiting for Gamescon to see some good reveals. Five years ago (or…was it six) they showed off the Shatterer there. I really hope they make a new reveal there.

Honestly, I read this thread and see exactly why any level-headed game developer should be close-lipped about information until they can confirm that there’s a 90% chance it will stay the same.

The problem with Necros lies in PvE only. Honestly, not every class needs to be good at all game types. I like one person’s description of what the specializations could be. That the specialization sacrifices one of the benefits of the base class to get a new benefit for the specialization. This would allow the specialization to be comparatively equal to the base class. Yes, some specializations will probably be better in different game types. That already happens with professions and that’s just the design of them.

The Revenant (from a condition standpoint) plays in a different way than Necro. It’s similar in the fact that they can draw conditions to themselves to empower their own abilities. The difference is that a Necromancer will still control the conditions and move them around while a Revenant will grab conditions to copy them.

HOWEVER, that’s just how they play condition-wise. (Which in PvP and WvW, Necro is in a good enough spot.) I doubt there will be much more overlap between these two professions outside of condition control specs. Honestly, I still think with a superior health pool and better heals that Necro will outclass the Revenant in this for combat against larger groups while the Revenant with superior mobility will outclass the Necromancer in small scale skirmishes. (Basically, Necro is good for zerg and Rev is better for roaming)

I think it just meant 50% more benefit from fury (making fury go up to 30%) rather than making fury itself go up to 50%.

It’d be nice to shake up the meta and free people to explore other builds, but the trait would be too powerful and thus mandatory.

Tyria is a large world and there is a possibility that Dwarves exist in other parts. However, if we go to far enough away, I highly doubt the devs would spend time to do Dwarves again. New place? Why not a new race?

It depends on the fight. I’d say the base version is 64×2x (exception is Mai Trin). If you can hit at close range 64220, if you can’t 64022. The only time I’d run 62222 is if I was attacking an object at close range. (Think like a world boss, or CoF2 final boss)

Legendary Grawl Shaman and Mai Trin should be more…personalized and given a bit more defense and cleansing power, but that’s just how I try to play.

Thaddeus.4891:

Fade.1743:

While D/F itself is flexible in solo and pug situations, it’s not so much in organized groups.

All i’m saying is that on the list of things that you don’t want in your run, D/F is at the bottom of it. A lot of stuff need to be checked before the presence of D/F ele if you want to optimize your group.

And we are talking about pugs here don’t we? In that case, there is zero reason to ask someone to not use D/F Ele.

Absolutely! The only reason I don’t play it is being unable to pull off the combo and feel like I’m not doing my job. That’s the only reason I hesitate to recommend D/F in PuGs. Other than that, you’re right. It’s a fantastic build that can be tweaked for higher level gameplay and in the hands of a skilled player can do wonderful things. (Do note I’ve only done one 30+ Fractal before, so I don’t speak from experience in that)

I recommend Staff over it for new players because you can more easily get into the class and learn how to play it. While it’s fun to feel like the Archmage of the entire freakin’ multiverse, D/F offers something completely different that takes barely any change in gear and traits to swap. (Mostly, just swapping weapons)

Jerus.4350:

Thaddeus.4891:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Staff ele can’t be glass dps? And how do you know the pugs are non-zerkers?

To me, it sounds like you are too salty about others wanting you to play something else then what you want.

You can either stay d/f and find a group that doesn’t care or switch to want they want. Contrary to want you are trying to imply here, it’s zerker groups that ask me to switch weps most often.

The problem with that is that D/F zerker ele is one of the most powerful build anyway. That make no sense to attack a D/F ele, since it does more damage than Guardian, Warrior, Mesmer and Necro (around the same damage as a Ranger). I can understand if there is already a Warrior PS, but otherwise.

This, I mean even with a PS war having swirling winds ready as well as things like ring of earth or magnetic wave all right at your finger tips without getting stuck in the wrong attunement… there’s nothing to complain about. Especially when many fights are doable with the majority of it being channeling Ice Bow/Glyph of Storms, then quick swap to whips to finish it off. The beauty of D/F is that it’s flexible and can do well in any situation, that’s not quite the same for staff or scepter+LH builds which are more specialized (no moving targets with staff, and LH dependancy on scepter just for example). DF may not be ideal in many situations but it’s never a bad option. And, it’s the most fun so…

While D/F itself is flexible in solo and pug situations, it’s not so much in organized groups. If the group has a Mesmer and/or a guardian, their reflects are better than Swirling Winds. It can be a bad option if the two major things it brings (might/fury stacking and projectile destruction) are brought by other players who do it better. (Again in an organized group).

I’d argue that Staff is just as flexible if not more so because it can work over two game types very well (PvE and WvW). It’s much more reliant on traits than D/F, but at 80 it’s not an issue. It’s also a bit easier to level with as D/F does need FA in order to be interesting.

I’d argue staff is the general purpose build for PvE with the rise of EA-PS warriors for might stacking. D/F focuses more on might stacking than pure offensive capabilities. The only fight I can think where I’d say it’s necessary is Legendary Grawl Shaman if your party has no other source of reflects.

Staff is good for support if you’re running either of the two main meta builds (66xxx or 64220) because you’ll have 2 blast finishers (Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Blast) and a constant fire field that provides 3 stacks of might and fury each blast. The former build you add in Ice Bow and Glyph of storms as well as doing Vuln on crit. Lightning Storm stacks vulnerability as well and ice bow is just great.

It’s not about hate, but about efficiency. As a staff Ele, your job is usually to deal damage and provide a constant fire field. I don’t actually play the build on meta battle since I don’t like having only offensive utils and I don’t play with a consistent group. Staff also has an easier rotation so you can focus more on the fight instead of your rotation. (Dead DPS = No DPS)

if your GM is bringing a warrior and you’re running D/F, you’ve got 2 characters who do the same job…and arguably the warrior will do it better while you do the pure damage set up better. For your guild, I’d advise talking to your GM about this and hear his/her reasoning behind it. For PuGs, IMO you should always be flexible.

It’s basically that if a mob sneezes on you…there goes half your HP.

I’d recommend swapping over to Valk armor as well as the suggestions above. It’s about a 2k HP gain…but that’s saved my life more than I can count. Honestly, if you’ve got a way to keep fury up, then you won’t feel a huge difference in fewer critical hits.

I’d say D/F can be a “meta” build with the right gear and party setup. Meta refers to either speed-running dungeons or Fractals. Like cursE said, it’s a level 80 thing. Don’t worry about it before then.

The only reason D/F is not being called meta by some is that Ele with the right setup can bring a CRAPTON of damage (usually with a staff). But you sacrifice all forms of defense save for dodging and rely on party members for the rest.

Personally, I had great fun with D/F, but the biggest issue was pulling off the full combo in pick-up groups. I’d start the combo…then mobs would immediately target me or group members wouldn’t do their job. I pulled it off once and it felt fantastic…but not a common thing outside of pre-organized groups.

Really, play what you want. Now that we can swap traits on the fly and we only need 5 weapons for every combo (2 daggers, 1 scepter, 1 focus, and 1 Staff), you can experiment a bit if you’re just running around the open world.

While I won’t go into detail on dungeons, I will advise that you also keep at least a set of PVT armor on you if you want to do world bosses. You can’t do critical strikes against most of them and the extra defense helps out. Those fights are more about surviving and doing non-crit damage so…this helps. (I’ve yet to do the worm in Bloodtide though)

The Legendary process was never supposed to be challenging. Just time consuming. Something to build towards over a long period of time.

Our characters have yet to be able to go to the Heart of Maguuma in-game. All Sylvari PCs are safe until the xpac launches. I’ve also hypothesized that Caithe and the Sylvari PC are immune (or have more resistance) to the influence of Mordremoth because both of them fought the Shadow of the Dragon in their Dreams. (Caithe did it twice.)

If your RP is already heading to the jungle, then your characters should be affected in some way. This shouldn’t cause a retcon. Corruption is not always instantaneous. It’s usually very small and very constant. You could always write it as being able to hold off corruption until you actually get to experience the story and learn what it really does.

The dungeon issue is not specific to GW2. Or MMORPGs. Or RPGs. Seriously, watch a tabletop game. Players do everything they can to safely win even if it involves abusing the rules. No game designer can break that mentality.

HOWEVER, if you want a more challenging, non-stacking dungeon experience, play in the Fractals. There’s really only a few fights that you can stack on to cheese it…and those fights are….horribly designed for GW2. (the non-boss Aether fractal)

Explorable modes are played for a quick burst of dungeon running. The challenge of a dungeon comes from setting up and preparing rather than the fights. A good group can kill the bosses in a matter of seconds.

The only way to remove stacking is to make boon-sharing and blast fields have a longer range and range damage being closer to melee damage. HOWEVER, this creates a problem that other MMOs have. It’s pointless to be melee then.

Your problems with the game boil down to player mentality. No matter what changes that’s how people are going to play. Finding the easiest solution to get the most rewards

I doubt Shiro Tagachi will be called Legendary Human. He’d probably be either known as Legendary Assassin (since one part of his legend comes from assassinating a Canthan emperor) or Legendary Envoy (which I think is MUCH more likely).

Outside of maybe King Doric, I doubt any future human legends would be called Legendary Human. It’d be too confusing if we had multiple human legends (which is a fair assumption to make since there are plans for more specializations in the future) and one was named Legendary human and the rest were named legendary _.

Konig Des Todes.2086

Fade.1743:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Windsagio.1340:

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

Regardless of protection or not, it was stated that sylvari could not be corrupted by elder dragons due to their natural good will and spirit (atleast from an interview a couple years ago). If that of course changes throughout their lifespan then the likely hood of that happening will change. The teachings of the ventari tablet teach just that, good will and spirit.

This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.

That was more of a hypothesis than an absolute. Dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons.

-Sigh-
Nothing ever said dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. In fact, Subject Alpha and the entire Crucible of Eternity purpose indicates otherwise.

We don’t know why the sylvari are protected, but the indication is that it is a combination of the Dream (unique to the Pale Tree and her sylvari – Malyck has no Dream connection) and willpower. Per this article, proximity to Mordremoth’s corruption strengthens his ability to overcome their corruption.

Furthermore it is implied that without the Dream, sylvari can be corrupted by ANY Elder Dragon.

Subject Alpha was an Inquest experiment. It is NOT a naturally occurring dragon minion. Therefore, that point is rendered irrelevant. The rest of the Crucible has NO dragon minion hybrids. In fact, hybrids can’t exist.

Sylvari couldn’t become Risen because Zhaitan could only corrupt beings made of flesh. Either living or dead. We’ve yet to see anything turn into Branded since Kralk’s revival. So, there’s a good chance that the Branded were only created when the Brand itself was. Destroyers are made from molten rock and lava…which would…well…be obvious why that doesn’t work. Icebrood have all come from northern ice races (Norn, Kodan, and Quaggan). It can be hypothesized that Jormag can only corrupt living beings that are more accustomed to harsh, cold environments. Otherwise, they’d die during corruption.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Windsagio.1340:

Sodeni.6041:

IrishPotato.6327:

Keep in mind they also pointed out Aerin was someone who disconnected himself from the dream and was able to be influenced by Mordremoth. To our awareness Trahearne is still very connected to the Pale Tree and her protection. (As far as we know). Honestly though if Trahearne ended up being a traitor…I think we’d all be very happy

But why did the pact soldiers turn against all others? They should be under the mothertrees’ protection too? So why did they currupt and not Trahearne?

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

Regardless of protection or not, it was stated that sylvari could not be corrupted by elder dragons due to their natural good will and spirit (atleast from an interview a couple years ago). If that of course changes throughout their lifespan then the likely hood of that happening will change. The teachings of the ventari tablet teach just that, good will and spirit.

This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.

That was more of a hypothesis than an absolute. Dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons.

The ghosts don’t “die”. They reform in Ascalon where they stood when their spirits were removed from their bodies in the Foefire. That’s why Rytlok went into the Mists. He wanted to break the curse of the Foefire.

Also, Rytlok entered the Mists in the Barradin estate, not AC. If anything, he MAY be able to channel Duke Barradin.

In terms of someone being legendary, it only matters that they have a legend behind them (which Rurik has). Rurik would also make more sense to channel by Rytlok. However, I doubt we’ll see anything to do with Rytlok messing with the Foefire until the next Living Story season. It’s a good filler story since it has a ton of lore behind it.

Personally I think we’ll end up having Legendary Vizier: Khilbron, Legendary Mesmer: Gwen Thackery, Legendary Asura: Vekk, and then the Legendary Ascended Hero (aka, something to connect to the GW1 player characters). At least for future specialization.

witcher.3197:

Ralanost.8913:

I forgot his name, but the King of Orr before it sunk into the sea was more impressive than Adelbern. Just saying.

We barely know anything about the Kings of Orr. The guy who sank Orr was a Vizier called Khilbron not a king, I think you are talking about him.

According to the Personal Story, Reza was the most powerful (magically) ruler of Orr by the time of the Cataclysm. We know he is a descendant of King Doric (like King Addledbrains, Prince Rurik, and Duke Barradin).

Also, Ralanost was talking about the last king of Orr, he/she didn’t say that Reza sunk Orr. Without the powers of Abaddon and the Scroll of magic used to summon the Cataclysm, it’s most likely that Reza is more powerful than Khilbron. Not only that, all player characters have a connection to him through the personal story.