An attack that has no cooldown, that blinds the target on attack and every second to any target within the area of its effect.
its pretty much Iwin vs any melee class, and can be just as powerful on ranged players if used well.
it has quite a low initiate cost, but can be spammed all the time while using the fotm d/p build.
that in of it self is more powerful than most other classes defence skills but still skill does even more, its a combo field that anyone with a leap can spam to stack stealth, its just totally over the top.
I don’t suggest changing it, it simply needs to cost more, atm its being used like an auto attack, the skill needs to cost a lot more, the skill needs to be a costly strategic skill, not some monkey stomping trolling skill of power
It has low initiative? What? It is being used as an auto attack? WTKitten?
You can’t be attacked because they enemy can’t target you…now if you get caught in an AOE how is that NOT your fault.
Just because you can’t be targeted in stealth doesn’t mean you can’t be attacked, and not only by AoE. Use a melee weapon and attack where the thief would be going. Watch your auto attack chain progress through the chain.
Step into the blind field while a thief is trying to get his perma stealth going. Laugh as his heartseeker tickles you, he gets revealed, then proceed to punch him in the face. If he is smart and doesn’t try to heartseeker back into the blind field (where you will be standing), then his stealth will run out and he will be low on initiative.
This is a perfect example of how someone should learn how to play. Facepalm and complain all you want, but it works.
Edit: I noticed you post a lot in the engineer forums, so I assume you are an engineer. If that is the case, you should have ZERO problems versus a thief.
@evil – I can agree with that and I also like Sir Vincent’s idea about more initiative refunding/discounting traits.
But what I was refering to in my post was that initiative traits only feel necessary on certain weaponsets, such as S/D and D/P. I am very comfortable using D/D, P/D, or SB without taking any initiative regeneration traits at all.
Strangely it didn’t break stealthers in most of the other MMO’s with Stealth Breaking on Damage, and they didn’t have the option of instantly restealthing.
This isn’t “other MMO’s”. Currently, this is the hand that thieves are dealt and we are using the mechanics as they were implemented. Stealth has plenty of counters in this game, believe it or not. Perma stealth thieves in particular can be stopped dead in their tracks by using their blind field against them.
Recently I swapped the “regain initiative faster while in stealth” for the “gain 2 stacks of might when using a skill that stealths you” trait and after about half an hour I wasn’t having problems with the lack of initiative gain.
The trait that gives might stacks is a minor trait after specing 25 points into the SA tree, you can’t swap it, so I am not sure what you are talking about here.
Overall I did agree with the rest of your post, though. If I am playing D/P, I feel it is absolutely necessary to take the +2 initiative on stealth.
To the OP: I think that our initiative regeneration is fine. All of our trait trees have relatively easy to get initiative regeneration, except deadly arts, and we really only have 2 heavy initiative spending weapon sets – S/D and D/P (I guess P/P but that needs a massive rework in my opinion.) I don’t think that we should be able to constantly spam skills and turn this class into a truly brain dead class, that people so often think that we are.
In our current stage, I like that we have to manage our initiative. Sure we need some minor tweaks, but I don’t think initiative regeneration is one of them.
personaly i don’t have any problems with initiative, and i do not use any utility’ or traits that boost initiative. You might need those traits on popular P/D build if you spam black powder.
~19k hp
2.1k Armor
3k Power
~60% crit chance
103% crit damage
Impossible stats bro =) Here is me stats with full ascendent gear 25/30/0/0/15 trait with signet 5/6 berserker accessories 50:50 berserker/knight armor
Yeah, I was a little off on my stats as I was away from my computer when I posted my reply to him, but I was close lol.
Anyways, here is a pic of my current stats. This is the mostly valkyrie/some berserker setup that I am running with my traits set as 0/30/10/30/0 as S/D.
Ross you don’t know the game very well boyo. Stability doesn’t impact the ability to Immob someone or not.
There are many things that are condition removals OP, and many things that reduce duration, food, runes, traits. On top of traits that remove xyz on use. Groups will have a good amount of condition removal.
Thanks, this could have been an interesting thread but you ruined it.
Hi there. Can anyone tell me, which gear should i buy for this build in wvw? I’m almost level 80, but still noob in pve and wvw. That build works pretty good for me in tpvp and i wanna use it in wvw. Thanks and sorry for my english.
I’m using a mix of mostly valkyrie gear (chest, legs, all accessories) and the rest is berserkers with ruby orbs added to my armor. For food, I use the omnomberry pie (66% chance to steal life and +70 Precision) and Quality Maintenance Oil.
This allows me to run with these stats:
~19k hp
2.1k Armor
3k Power
~60% crit chance
103% crit damage
I also keep a few extra pieces of berserkers/valkyries for various other slots for when I want to get a certain amount of crit chance or HP.
So far, this setup has been working out pretty nicely.
Just watch some of Jumper X’s video’s. The S/D set isn’t a burst build, it’s a harass and boon strip set, with a built in condition removal to open up new builds (instead of relying on shadow arts).
If you time your auto attacks well enough after using a flanking strike, you can get some decent bursts.
One way that I close a gap is by baiting the enemy to come at you. Pull away or break LoS, let your cooldowns/initiative regen, then watch what they do. If they push toward you and over commit then you can surprise them with a dancing dagger and keep them in melee range. If they run away, let them because it probably isn’t worth chasing.
Also, for gap closing, I’ve ditched shortbow all together and I use S/D or D/P as my secondary weapon set. Use D/D when you know you can burst the enemy down, then switch out to use the utilities that the other weapon sets provide.
It is very easy to define the weakest server…the one with the least points in the weakest server….you do understand game mechanics right?
So you’re saying that Blackgate is the weakest server? I think both SoR and JQ would take issue with that claim and giving them (us) a considerable stat bonus. In some tiers its pretty easy to define, in others? Not so much. (Its easy in the TC/DB/MG case because TC is a limbo-T1 server.)
Its Friday morning, NA, and three servers are neck and neck, but one server let’s its PPT dip for a moment to gain the buff and then flip EVERYTHING to paper before the point totals equilibrate to remove the buff again.
Its not easy, and anything that is simply “given” asks to be abused. And while we’re at it, why not just give the “weakest” server Determined lords on their keeps? People dislike owning nothing but camps just as much as they dislike orbs.
You logic is flawed in saying 80/3….the point is that the server that can field 250 people on all their maps….say TC can have 100 people in eternal, 100 people in DB BL and 50 people in TC BL vs DB who only have 100 people in eternal and 50 ppl in DB BL…cannot afford to fight for the orb as well as the higher population server..that means MOST OF THE TIME…the HIGHER population or “Stronger” server will hold it throughout the day….giving them a buff…im not saying that a smaller server couldn’t take it…i’m just saying OVERALL ON AVERAGE throughout the day….the stronger server will more than likely hold it longer than the other two servers…making it more lopsided…
If DB can afford to have 50 people in their BL, and the orb requires the control of three individual control points, for example, all in the open field. How exactly is TC’s 80/3 going to stop your 50 from simply wiping out one of the orb nodes and nullifying the bonus? Are they going to camp all 80 people on one node? Then who’s scouting their towers or keeps? Who’s on the other nodes? Why isn’t MG doing the same on their BL? Or if its just one KotH node, and they just park 80 people on top of it, who’s scouting their keeps and towers? Why aren’t your havoc groups doing something?
And still, this comparison remains utterly flawed because TC is not a T2 server. It cannot be helped that there are four T1~ish servers for three slots of T1. But I doubt a bit more flavor to the day would be bad for T1/4/5/6 who consistently have decent matches.
The whole idea behind the orb was to inspire the three worlds dynamic to actually be about three worlds, not “I have my share of the pie, now I will leave this map because it serves no other purpose”. Right now, the Borderlands are pointless.
It’s really a simply concept I don’t understand what you fail to understand about it…
even in the T1 example…yes at the time if BG is the lowest point total they are the weakest server at that point in time…. it’s not saying overall EVER bg is the weakest of the 3, but at this moment in time for whatever reason they are.
Once again… if their is a specific objective to be held on ANY map (if there is sufficient reason to hold it), on average throughout the day more often than not the larger server (strongest whatever, the one with the most points) is more likely to hold that objective longer than the other servers… that’s it…
I was just saying buff the lowest server and then remove it when they are not the lowest server anymore…in fact I will make MARIO KART example to illustrate my point..
Whoever in last place ALWAYS will get a speed buff to drive faster to catch up to the pack…that way he can almost never fall so far behind he can’t get back to the pack to stay in the race…. this is the example I am saying for the lowest server… to prevent it from falling SO FAR BEHIND that it doesn’t matter what they do…buff them until they get back to the pack and if they pass the 2nd place server… they lose it…right?
This kind of thinking is terrible for any competitive environment. Basically what you are saying is, instead of figuring out how to make a comeback or finding out where a strategy went wrong, just buff the server that is losing.
1) Scouts are extremely useful to commanders. Getting to an area quickly and while staying hidden to provide enemy movements/numbers to a commander can be essential to a successful attack or defense. This can even be done while roaming and you notice an enemy force moving in a certain direction (maybe your Waypointed Garrison?), call it out to create time for the defenses to get ready.
2) Keep a zerg busy with your troll specs! I’ve successfully kept 15-20 people busy chasing me around a field for absurd amounts of time, sometimes 5-10 minutes. This kept those people from doing anything else useful in the meantime.
3) Get to the back lines and pick off the support specs that are keeping their zerg alive.
4) Blast finish those fields in the middle of a fight.
5) If you notice the enemy zerg doesn’t have any retaliation, stealth, quickly get to the middle of their zerg then dagger storm. This can break a zerg in half sometimes and allow your own commander to create a mismatch in numbers between the zergs.
I really like the idea of taking a point then getting the initial points, with no PPT, along with more points for each additional upgrade completed. On the flip side, make upgraded enemy structures worth more to take, and then make kills incorporate somewhere into the scheme of things.
We don’t have evidence about how the orb is gonna work, so all we can do Is say what we do not want it to be
So make our voices heard now (before the changes)and tell the devs what we don’t want. I enjoy world versus world for it’s open world pvp, and I don’t want it to die. It is the only reason I even log into this game.
+1 to no combat related stat bonuses. I’m excited for changes as much as anyone else, but making one server stronger than another is a bad direction to take world versus world, in my opinion.
Build for mobility, every trait, and every single utility spot for it.
In GvGs stealth is absolutely a no go. Since stealth was meant to be a big part of the classes defense at first it would seem like there would be no place at all for thieves in GvG.
But there are ways to boost the other mechanic, mobility, to levels that can make you tanky enough to be a part of the melee train while still glass enough to dish out extreme aoe punishment.
The role in gvgs is not completely melee train but not fully caster backline either. Using your mobility you can be an excellent harasser (think poison cloud on enemy regroups) and completely shut down any oposing team’s harass player too. Use whatever off weapon set your comfortable with: s/d, d/d, d/p all good options.
Then retreat back to the train often to dish out amazing pressure on their melee via SB. The blast finishers for short bow are most effective MID fight not before the round starts which is a common misconception.
I cant really go into detail about specific build questions, but just know that thief can be a very effective class in GvG but you have to put in the work to get there.
bonus tip: get used to what the enemy team’s mesmer looks like, because the only time you should be stealing is taking that precious and wonderful plasma.
This is interesting, are there any videos from Agg doing GvG from a thieves PoV? Or would it be possible to have one made during one of your matchups?
What is the best strategy to reliably land it (in sPvP)?
Somehow the way I’m using it, this thing seems to be dodged a lot if not an out right miss. Not to mention the recent spats of lags makes landing one a total PITA.
I usually set it up with HS, and then CnD, but between the aftercast and lag, I end up not getting a clean hit. Is there a bettter tactic for successfully landing one – preferably something that doesn’t involve steal because the cool down on that is a tad excessive and there’re really better traits to take than 30% faster steal.
At 6 init, it’s really hard to afford a miss.
You just made a post that was saying HS spam is overpowered, and now you post this…But I’ll bite anyways.
Honestly, the best way to learn to land CnD is to learn its range and learn when to pre-cast it while running up to someone for the best results in my experience.
Some more obvious tips:
1. Don’t keyboard turn
2. Don’t click your skills.
3. Go into a pve setting so that you can learn the range of CnD.
It’s not overpowered in a way that it needs a straight up nerf. It’s more correct to say HS is decent rewarding skill that a monkey can use. It needs to be a great skill, that requires a human to use.
That out of the way, why running to someone isn’t a great idea:
1) The caster types, will usually run away from you. Mesmers will nuke you to death in the process and eles will kite you until you say uncle…
2) Warriors will daze and wipe the floor with your corpse – even if manage to land C&D.
3) Rangers will push you back and you start from square 1 while sprouting 3 feathers every second.
4) Engineers will gladly let you get to them only to blast you away and set you on fire.
5) Necro… will o well, I guess Necros will stand there so you can safely land C&D on them if not 1 of their minions.
Bottom line, running up to anyone in thief armor and health tends to be… rather unhealthy shall we say.
If you think I implied to just “walk up and CnD”, then I don’t know what to say. I use CnD very well to weave in and out of stealth, creating plenty of disorientation, and throwing opponents off guard in WvW and sPvP. I do agree, it can be unreliable with all the counters such as blocks and dodges, but that is part of learning how to fight other classes. You need to learn when to use certain skills in certain situations. That is the great thing about thieves, they are pretty adaptable to different situations if you understand the class and it’s mechanics.
Of course the most reliable way is to use a shadowstep while precasting CnD, but if you are like me and stingy with cooldowns, then learning how to use it in melee range can be an amazing alternative.
I gave you an option to learn, which works for me often enough to be confident with it’s use, and if you refuse the advice, that’s cool.
What is the best strategy to reliably land it (in sPvP)?
Somehow the way I’m using it, this thing seems to be dodged a lot if not an out right miss. Not to mention the recent spats of lags makes landing one a total PITA.
I usually set it up with HS, and then CnD, but between the aftercast and lag, I end up not getting a clean hit. Is there a bettter tactic for successfully landing one – preferably something that doesn’t involve steal because the cool down on that is a tad excessive and there’re really better traits to take than 30% faster steal.
At 6 init, it’s really hard to afford a miss.
You just made a post that was saying HS spam is overpowered, and now you post this…But I’ll bite anyways.
Honestly, the best way to learn to land CnD is to learn its range and learn when to pre-cast it while running up to someone for the best results in my experience.
Some more obvious tips:
1. Don’t keyboard turn
2. Don’t click your skills.
3. Go into a pve setting so that you can learn the range of CnD.
Why are you shifting the HS spam complaint into a different direction??? First you were complaining that you were dying to often to it, now it makes them too mobile?
If a thief is spamming HS to be mobile in a fight, then they won’t have the firepower to take anyone down…
Your arguments are flawed and I don’t see the point of this thread.
Duh it deals better than mediocre damage while closing gaps and is very spammable.
It’s basically a decent reward, no risk involved skill against the right classes, for thieves that are so traited. You need to add some element of risk to it, and may be a buff so not just any zombie can use it.
Why are you shifting the HS spam complaint into a different direction??? First you were complaining that you were dying to often to it, now it makes them too mobile?
If a thief is spamming HS to be mobile in a fight, then they won’t have the firepower to take anyone down…
Your arguments are flawed and I don’t see the point of this thread.
Thieves are fine in Zerg vs Zerg battles. A spammable blast finisher is always appreciated, even when others don’t say so (and continue to call us useless).
GvG on the other hand is a different story though. Currently, we don’t bring much to the table to warrant a spot in a GvG fight. If we spec to be bursty, we go down way to fast in the midst of the fight. If we spec to be able to take front line punishment, we don’t dish out much damage.
I would love to use my thief in GvG also, but unless we get a 1200 range attack, don’t count on being called on by a guild to participate.
To their credit, having spent a bit of time on my thief and leveled to 75ish, I can say it’s pretty easy to spam HS accidentally. It only has an animation CD you know, so it’s not hard to miss press in the heat of combat.
And this has nothing to do with the discussion here.
I dunno how to fix it, it may be balanced, but it’s so effective despite being skill-less I dunno what to make of it. It seems to be begging for a dmg and initiative increase, so it’ll be just as powerful, but won’t be as spamable.
how is it effective???
it’s called dodging the heart seekers. try it sometime it works good.
Yes except that other classes besides thieves don’t have as many dodges perhaps? You’re thinking a thief vs. thief fight, which’s a no brainer unless they get the jump on you while you’re busy fighting.
Regardless there needs to be a bit more thought to using the skill than spamming 2. I rather see the damage goes up along with initiative to give it a bit more risk to using it. It should at least be 4 init, and move the damage to the way it was pre-nerf. It’ll be more effective, but at the same time you can’t just spam your way to glory like now.
Every class has the ability to dodge twice. Spamming 2 (or any initiative spender for that matter) is not effective, everyone is this thread is telling you this. You sound like an extremely desperate troll that doesn’t want to learn how to play.
The thing about the Liadri fight is that you don’t need to re-gear to fight her. I was in full zerker gear and specced into a pistol condition build and did just fine.
Focus on getting to the safe area and CnD when she gets close, then sneak attack when you have an opening. Let the bleeds work for you.
@OP Sigh. Another thread like this. If obviously are not main as a thief. First, there are not a lot of HS spammers. Second, you should be happy if you see a HS spammer. They are easy to kill.
A lot of people still don’t understand the importance of positioning in open world fighting and using the terrain to a groups advantage. The first video is good at demonstrating how the use of terrain can help even the numbers.
Spying is a seperate issue that Anet really hasn’t bother to deal with, but this takes the cake.
“Don’t take Supply from Towers or Keeps unless a commander says it is okay. "
Just because they spent 100 gold doesnt make them a god. I actually can play toward wvw and not have to do a thing a commander tells me. That tag helps lead groups of players, and, in the end, it will be my own judgement whether to follow what they do or say. If a keep is the closest thing to me and I need supply, I will use supply. That isn’t match fixing, that is an inconvenience to those trying to run a specific strategy. Same way that not everyone follows a dungeon meta for loadouts and gear, not everyone has to bend over backwards to someone who shelled out 100 gold.
This is a very selfish post that goes against what world versus world stands for. Some commanders are actually very good at creating strategies that require cooperation, but people like you tend to create a problem for them.
Stop thinking only about me me me. Did you stop to think that the supply you took from the keep prevented a waypoint from being upgraded? That would have helped out you, but you don’t have the foresight to consider that.
