Guild Wars 2

The threat that Adelbern foresaw may have been a plot mechanism to get players into a planned GW Beyond storyline in Elona, one we unfortunately never got. If that is the case then it may have involved Palawa Joko’s taking over of Elona.

I am sure that Adelbern did not have this threat on his mind when he recalled the Ebon Vanguard, but that he wanted every soldier for the defense of Ascalon, and said threat was a way to later get rid of the Ebon Vanguard, which enjoyed high popularity among the people of Ascalon.

Most likely not with Adelbern who, maybe because of their connections to Kryta, would rather send his best fighters away to an obscure corner of Ascalon. That Adelbern sent civilians who dared to question his methods into “Exile” together with the Ebon Vanguard speaks for him wanting to get rid of the Ebon Vanguard.

Not something the Adelbern of the original GW would have done, but not unlikely for the person Adelbern was turned into in preparation for GW2. It allowed something of human Ascalon to survive, ironically.

The White Mantle and the Mursaat had started to move over the Shiverpeaks during the events of GW Prophecies in 1072, while your character is busy in the Crystal Desert getting the blessing of the gods. Before that they had been in Kryta and on the Ring of Fire islands, and you had been unable to even see them. You basically stop their advance eastwards over the Shiverpeaks together with the Shining Blade.

Last time the Mursaat are to be seen in GW Prophecies is during the Ring of Fire island missions where you break through their defenses to reach the door of Komalie. During that time you kill all that you encounter (including their leader Optimus Caliph), with the Titans supposed to have killed some more. But that was not all of them, at least 8 survived.

A single Mursaat makes an appearance in GW EotN in 1078, and that is Lazarus, who gets away swearing revenge for you doing damage to a fragment of his soul which he had come to collect.

The final appearance is during the events of GW Beyond War in Kryta, which happens during 1079. There you assassinate three Mursaat, and kill four more during the final Battle of Lion’s Arch, including their then-leader Talios. That makes Lazarus the only known survivor.

I see no reason to assume that Undead Rurik wasn’t wielding Sohothin during the final mission of Prophecies. Its last known location was therefore most likely the Ring of Fire islands, and it must have been taken away from there.

There are two possibilities for this, one of the heroes of Tyria took it or it was “teleported” away like the Scepter of Orr. My characters who played through Prophecies wouldn’t have left it there, but technically only the heroes of Tyria, Mhenlo and his friends had the opportunity to do so, since the player characters from GW1 are not recognized to have existed in GW2 lore (except in the HoM, but that is a different story). I wouldn’t have left the corpse of Rurik there either, but there was a Lich to kill and afterwards one had to run for one’s life, with the volcano erupting.

So either Mhenlo or someone else had already picked it up or Glint saw to it that it got away from the island. The sword could have been given back to Adelbern since he was present in Droknar’s Forge in the aftermath of the final mission, if i remember correctly.

That’s how i imagine it happened, Mhenlo or one of his friends picking it up and returning it to King Adelbern, who took it back to the royal treasury in Ascalon City. He may have handed it out again to someone “worthy”, like Duke Barradin or Devona, to wield it. I assume that Barradin’s ghost would probably wear its ghostly version if it was given to him, but that is not the case.

My bet is Devona, and we do not know where “Devona’s Rest” exactly is, although it doesn’t seem to be in Ascalon. Surely the Charr wouldn’t respect a grave of someone of Devona’s renown, and take Sohothin away. It doesn’t look like Devona fell during the Foefire since she isn’t around as a ghost.

I do not assume that it was Rytlock in person who plundered it, but that he took it from another Charr who fell in combat, and Rytlock claimed the sword. I can’t imagine Rytlock plundering a human grave, no matter what i think about him otherwise.

This thread invites comments by griefers and people who can’t cope with having lost to YB once in a while. I doubt it will last long.

Chris.3290:

2. YB – modest 24 hr overage but I rate them #2 because their casual population is very on board with their defensive-based strategy

That’s funny because not so long ago you sounded like this:

Chris.3290:

The Bad

YB A nerf to arrowcarts would send this server to T6. Their defense culture is the only thing that is keeping them in the higher tiers.

What made you change your mind? This week’s result? Do not take that too seriously and do not count either BP or SoR out for the League.

I for my part do not want YB to repeat the result of 1st season (if we are capable of that), because it sent us to a post-season rating which did not reflect our strength, and into matches with Zombie horde servers for weeks, which wasn’t good for the morale of those who stayed after season 1 was over.

To sum it up, the exceptional effort of my server during season 1 was worth nothing and only had negative consequences. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, ANet.

My prediction:

1. FA 2. IoJ 3. SBI 4. HoD 5. any of the remaining

CETheLucid.3964:

There’s no proof that charr took the land from anyone so much as they’ve always been there. That they’re natives.

The GW1 Charr originally came from east of the Blazeridge mountains, they were not natives of Ascalon. It’s been turned into their ancestral homeland in GW2.

CETheLucid.3964:

How do you suppose humanity came to own Ascalon without killing or driving out every last charr and erecting a massive wall to keep them out?

It wasn’t genocidal any more than any other expansionist war. Humans do that all the time.

The Great Northern Wall was erected centuries after humans had taken Ascalon, as a purely defensive measure.

There is no proof that humans behaved towards the Charr like the Charr did towards humanity for a thousand years afterwards.

If you want to ignore GW1 lore altogether then that’s your choice. It’s being ignored in GW2. Doesn’t change that there is a notable difference between the Charr and humans in GW1. Simply put, humans are good, Charr are evil. And that is still the case in GW1.

CETheLucid.3964:

There was no more Orr to try again there and charr thought it wise not to do the Kryta thing again given that they were struggling to hold the ground they gained in Ascalon and the fact that the trip alone was exceedingly treacherous.

The Charr planned an invasion of Lion’s Arch at the time of Zhaitan’s awakening, 1219 AE. They did not think that it was wise not to attack humanity any more.

CETheLucid.3964:

The land is yet haunted by the ghosts of the Ascalonians. The humans ultimately matched the charr Searing with their Foefire in terms of casualties.

The entire charr invasion force was wiped. Incinerated. Not to mention the accumulated casualties the ghosts have inflicted since the Foefire.

That’s what may happen if you try to take a city to kill every living being inside, you may die.
Half of the population of Ascalon died in the Searing, don’t compare the Foefire to it. For which, ultimatively, the Charr bear the responsibility, they started the conflict with a genocide. Don’t tell me their actions were justified. And yes, the Charr started the Ascalonian War with the Searing, not humanity a thousand years earlier.

daydream.2938:

Borlis pass lost 2 of our 3 biggest wvwvw guilds to t1/2. so your not alone, its worth mention ur beating us in our current match up.

Yes, i noticed, and it surprised me, and it’s sad to see BP in such a state. You may notice that you are facing what is called “Militia” from YB, without any larger organized guild among them.

Straegen.2938:

Good to see several of the lower tier servers seeing some positive population growth. I was a bit afraid that BP was a sign of general attrition in the bottom tiers but it appears to be a time for a single server restructuring that other servers have experienced instead.

Seems like you are facing a situation YB had some weeks/months ago – and is working to overcome. YB did survive, we did not implode despite losing guilds. I am sure BP can do the same.
The free transfers cause some restructuring that otherwise would probably not have happened, but the general trend seems to be to transfer up to T1/2.

The entity that corrupted Scarlet must not neccesarily have been Mordremoth, and the possibility exists that it is Lazarus, the last Mursaat known to exist. However, assuming that the thorny plant strangling the Pale Tree and the entity corrupting Scarlet are one and the same, it seems more likely that it was Mordremoth, whose “theme” is nature, or the corruption of nature.

Or it was something completely different, seeing how Scarlet mentions that the Pale Tree and the Nightmare Court are part of some bigger picture, some “plan”. I am sure that the answer lies within the Maguuma Jungle, and i see three possibilities here:

1. it’s Mordremoth, meaning that the Sylvari are kinda part of the Elder Dragon’s plan, and Mordremoth had already started to assault the Pale Tree.
2. it’s Lazarus, the only known surviving Mursaat, whom people expect to return at some point. However, Anet seems to discard old lore/stories in favour of new ones.
3. it’s some powerful force that we haven’t seen yet, and Mordremoth’s awakening was only a coincidence of Scarlet’s action. It could be a corrupted Pale Tree for example, one that did not have the benefit of the teachings of Ventari.

I tend to assume that the easiest/most apparent solution is the correct one, which means Mordremoth has the highest likelyhood, as we do not have any proof otherwise, and every ambiguity in the information given to us is the result of several teams working on the Living World updates. Which means that Scarlet got manipulated into speeding up the Elder Dragon’s awakening.

Some inconsistencies remain that are a bit harder to overlook, like Scarlet’s wish to control her own destiny and shape the world, and her being aware that there was some “master” whom she helped gain power.
Concerning Mordremoth’s knowledge, i am sure that it is completely aware of the state of affairs in Tyria, including technology. Zhaitan was aware of it, why should it be any different with Mordremoth? Such a powerful creature must not be awake/physically active/gain new minions for that. Most likely Mordremoth already has plentiful of minions.

So imo there is a likelyhood for it not being Mordremoth, but at the moment i assume that the most obvious answer is the correct one. We saw Mordremoth in the cutscene, it’s Mordremoth that is “Tyria’s new master”.

Scarlet may have believed that her actions would give her control over her destiny and make her “Queen of the world”, but in the end her ultimate goal became unimportant. So it is likely that there isn’t anything more to be revealed about her plans.

You know how things are on YB, you’ve been facing us for weeks. Large WvW guilds had already left for T1/2, so there wasn’t much left that we could lose to free-transfer-servers. Still, we lost one or the other small guild to HoD, one rank beneath us. We got one guild from SoR, so since the last larger WvW guild left us we’ve been roughly holding steady.

I’m wondering what people from Kaineng or SoR or Ehmry may think about the discussion in here – my own server had all larger WvW guilds and several smaller ones leave, and plenty of other servers in Silver and Bronze are in a similar position. There’s the opposite from what i can hear, like HoD getting stacked from free transfers, it doesn’t change that you guys should thank ANet for messing things up again instead of blaming each other.

There are some servers that will roll over you no matter how many people you field, but that goes for everyone in Silver. Don’t assume that whoever of you goes to Silver will be in a worse position than the majority of servers there. It means getting steamrolled by DB and IoJ, if you happen to be unfortunate enough to face one of these, and having far more equal matches against the other servers. Whoever of you gets into Silver will be in the same boat as almost all the rest of us.

And do not forget that the rewards do not look like they are worth getting excited about the League. Tournament. Whatever they call it.

I think that the important points here are that
1. many Charr did believe what their shamans told them and were let down
2. their “gods” were actually false, not as powerful as the human gods and
3. they were trying to control the Charr (it was Abbadon through the Titans, but the Charr do not seem to be aware of that), and the Charr dislike the idea of outside control over their destiny.

From the Quest “A Flickering Flame”, GW1, Realm of Torment:

Straegen.2938:

YB had a good ride in the last league system. If we do plummet we can do it together.

In the end it only worked against us making 2nd place in Silver League. The reward for putting in overtime and giving our all was a silly reward chest and having to face stronger servers for months afterwards, causing all remaining WvW guilds to eventually leave for greener pastures. Those of us who are left on YB won’t be able to repeat the success of season 1, and i think there are very few people who actually care what result we will get. Season 1 killed WvW on YB.

So, what do i think about free transfers…
Free transfers for certain ranks means absolutely nothing, as no one will go to these servers. WvW guilds are transferring up, not down, because the tournament is not an important factor for their decision to transfer. They go to servers that give them a chance to be competitive and get the fights they want after the tournament has long ended.

If anything this tournament will accelerate the trend of some servers getting more stacked and all others turning into ghost towns in WvW.

Congratulations to JQ, DB and SF for winning in their respective (US) groups!

There, Tournament done.

Dustfinger.9510:

…and it seems to be what Frosch was defending. I was merely pointing out the irony of that comment in this thread.

It only seems to be that way. I’ve said several times already that i can live with how things are in GW2.

I react when people (not pointing at anyone in particular) try to redeem the GW1 Charr, which in my opinion is not possible.

CETheLucid.3964:

Hehehehehehehehaahahahahaahaha.. nah.

That is really a convincing argument you got there. sarcasm off

Simply repeating an opinion does not turn it into an argument.

There is nothing wrong with being a Charr fan, you need not be ashamed of it.
But an opinion does not necessarily put you in a morally superior position.

Dustfinger.9510:

…….. Interesting. How one group will be sour losers who can’t accept that they lost a war. XP

It is obvious which side can hold a grudge longer than the other. To be on equal terms with the Charr humanity got about a thousand years left to hold a grudge. How many still do so after 250 years?

CETheLucid.3964:

My inner charr beckons me to say: You’re welcome little mouse. Need a hand with those ogres, m8?

Ah, the old argument that the Charr are generously letting humanity stay in Ebonhawke.
Overlooking that they tried for 250 years to take the city and failed. It’s understandable, there are no Titans around any more.
But yes, compared to the Charr the Ogres are really a terrible threat.

Thank you ANet for making those available, even if it is through tickets. I had 2 tickets ready and got me the Longbow and the Shield. Now give me Obby armor skin for my Ranger please and i’m quite happy.

CETheLucid.3964:

No. It belongs to the charr because it was theirs to begin with 1250 years ago.

The humans were victorious invaders and pushed them back, and a bit later, yes, through millitary might, the charr reclaimed their ancestral homeland.

They win out for reason of both. Ancestry and millitary might.

It is enough to build a nation based on millitary might alone as you yourself insinuate with your comment there about ancient claims.

That’s what humans did with Ascalon after all.

The charr satisfy both. You wanna argue ancestry? Charr predate humans in the land of Ascalon by a landslide. Wanna argue right of war? Charr won.

It’s their land.

If selecting a point in time to justify claims to the land then only the very beginning of settlement of Ascalon can count, and any following occupations of Ascalon don’t.

And that means the Charr invaded Ascalon long before humanity and the land is not theirs, it’s the land of the Forgotten, Dwarves, Grawl, or whoever was there first.

Now about the length of time of settlement as basis for claims to the land:

The current Charr population of Ascalon can’t be blamed for what their ancestors did. The land is theirs by their tradition of living there for 250 years.

Neither can the human population at the time of the Searing be blamed for anything their ancestors supposedly did, they were victims of Charr aggression, and Ascalon was human land after 1000 years.

And no, we can’t tell for how long the Charr had been in Ascalon before humanity arrived.

Now if we want to bring morality into the argument about who owns the land then we better not compare the Charr with humanity because the Charr would lose badly.

The Charr strike me as sour losers who could not accept that they had lost a war against humanity.

By the way, humanity is still in Ascalon today, it is not gone.

CETheLucid.3964:

Heritage? Charr heritage in the land is vastly superior to that of humanities. Charr win out by war and by heritage. It’s their land.

It’s their land again, before that it was human land. I can actually live with how things are now, it’s a game after all. Should it happen ingame that there will be another conflict between humanity and the Charr i know for which side i would fight, but given the theme of cooperation between nations and species it will most likely not happen.

I am sure that there are enough old GW1 players, me among them, who got the feeling that their efforts in GW1 were for naught for the sake of turning the Charr from monsters into a playable species.

The Charr hold the land through military might, not because they got a right to hold it because it was already theirs 1250 years ago. If such ancient claims would still be valid in our real world plenty of nations would cease to exist. And the Grawl would have the strongest claim to Ascalon by the way.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

If a predatory species eating their slain enemies is considered a atrocity than humanity using the hides of their enemies to craft armor is also a atrocity. Also seeing how Ascalon needed the aid of the gods to conquer the land and then the wall to hold it, I say the charr are indeed the better fighters.

You can see using the hides of evil monsters as armor as an atrocity. By no means does this compare to Charr actions of genocide, ecocide, eating humans, using their skulls as ornaments, burning people alive etc.

Humanity was told by the gods to take the lands for them, if anything then humanity helped the gods and not the other way around. Charr are physically superior, making a human able to defeat a Charr the better fighter.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Actually I’m not. I’m just pointing out that it is likely that Kryta seems to still consider the Charr as enemies. When two enemies are forced to work together against a common threat, the most logical solution is to expect the other side to betray the other when it is more convenient for them. Seeing how the Renegades and Separatists are relatively allowed free reign, it can be assumed that both Charr and Humans plan to resume the war once all other threats have been neutralized.

Why shouldn’t Kryta consider the Charr a possible enemy? They enjoy war too much, and went on with it even after the Foefire, till just recently. Though it was Jennah who started the peace negotiations. The Charr enjoy conflict far more than humanity, so it’s more likely that they will look for a new war to fight, should their current enemies be defeated.

It is possible that either or both sides plan to renew the war in the future, but by then they will have learned to cooperate, through standing up to common enemies, and see how futile a new war would be.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Oh and what would that be?

I have become wary of discussion concerning this topic, it can turn ugly very quickly, like i saw it happen several times in the past. You seem to prefer to side with the Charr, i prefer to side with humanity.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

In both versions of the tale the blame lays with King Adelbern.

The chain of events started with the Searing, with the human population of Ascalon being innocent victims. The Charr caused it, they bear the responsibility for the Foefire. The Charr themselves should understand the determination of no giving up. I do not approve of what Adelbern did, but i do not pity the Charr either for having to deal with the ghosts. Their ghost problem is entirely self-made. If anything i pity the ghosts.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I am not the other person, I will not resort to petty name calling. If I truly can’t counter your argument I am more than willing to concede and admit defeat. However for the time being there seems to be plenty to discuss.

I see that you are not like that, but i do not see the need to continue the discussion to the point where one or the other has to “admit defeat”. There are different opinions, but not “right” or “wrong” ones.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Actually it is a matter of logic, because humanity has more pressing matters. If all it took was heart then there would be no Elder Dragons, no Centaur, and no Ministry trying to usurp the queen.

Be so kind as to look at the title of the thread. The question is aimed at players, not ingame NPC’s. Those who would fight to reclaim Ascalon decide so with their hearts.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

However I should advise you attempting to turn the argument on me in the method you appear to be using, is pointless. As I have said both Charr and humanity have committed atrocities to the other, whether or not either side cares is a matter of personal preference. Even after learning the lands were originally theirs I didn’t feel sorry for what my Ascalonian characters had done, nor did I feel the Charr were monsters. Both sides had legitimate reasons to fight, both sides used that to commit atrocities to the other, and both sides refuse to yield. I do not expect the Charr to apologize or to provide compensation for the Ascalonians they eaten and I would say the Charr don’t expect similar from me for the hides I took from their dead. In the end the Charr proved to be the better fighters, as the Ascalonians who refused to retreat are now ghosts forever trapped on Tyria and forced to forever war with the Charr.

To make this short, there are no atrocities committed by humanity agains the charr in either GW1 or 2. Ascalon was no longer Charr land after a thousand years of humanity living there. It is Charr land again today. The Charr could not conquer human Ascalon without the help of the Titans, which does not exactly make them the “better” fighters.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

So I should believe it was coincidental that the queen mentioned about humanity’s enemies right before the transformation? Also I’m not turning the Charr into victims, that would be insulting them. I however an pointing out how the Queen’s Jubilee seems to indicate humanity’s future plans for the Charr after the Elder Dragons have been defeated.

You are exactly doing this, trying to turn the Charr into victims by implying that Kryta plans to attack them in the future. Maybe ask Lady Althea about which side was the victim.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

You do understand the two and half centuries take place following the conclusion of Eyes of the North? This means the Searing had already occurred thus the Great Northern Wall had already fallen.

250 years during which the Charr could not take Ebonhawke despite their best efforts. It shows what the Charr are capable of on their own without the help from some Titans.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Ascalon’s fate was of its own doing, not the Charr’s. Foefire didn’t have to be called upon, but it was. Those unfortunate souls have only themselves to blame for their fate as they choose to listen to a King who stubbornness overruled reason.

Wow. I think i got the measure of you now. Took me some time.

Again you are confusing cause and effect. The responsibility for the Foefire lays solely with the Charr.

I’ve had this discussion before, it ended with the other guy calling me a racist for lack of further arguments from his side. Therefore i will just end my contribution to this discussion here. Feel free to reply and have a nice day.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Dead is dead. So maybe the humans did not eat Charr (do you have evidence that supports that Charr ate humans though), but they still killed them.

Take a look at this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/charr/Do-Charrs-eat-humans/first#post1956694

Yes, eating a sentient being after killing it is worse imo. Killing a monster in GW1 is no big deal, and there the Charr are just monsters. Don’t confuse action and reaction, it is legitimate to defend yourself against someone trying to kill you in a fantasy game.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

The Charr in game are not different from their background infromation. You’re forgetting one crucial fact – the dragons. The Charr would still be warring against the humans if the dragons hadn’t come along. But the threat of the Branded on Charr lands and the threat that all of the dragons pose to every single race of Tyria has necessitated alliances. Throughout the game the human-charr alliance is presented as uneasy, you only have to listen to ambient dialogue in the Ascalon area or talk to the Charr around Ebonhawke to realise that a lot of them are not that happy about it.

Okay, so i can still see the Charr as bloodthirsty warmongers in GW2? One of my characters is a Charr Warrior, and my personal experience is different.

Of course there are those among both species that are not happy about it, forgetting about old grievances takes a long time. But which side got more reasons to still cling to it? Probably the side that had to defend till recently.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

There is no point in retaking Ascalon if the Elder Dragons will simply destroy it. Neither is there any point in retaking Ascalon if it leaves humanity weaker as a whole.

It is not a matter of logic if people would fight to reclaim Ascalon or not, but a matter of the heart.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

As for the last portion of your argument, no humanity didn’t eat Charr but they did make armor out of their hides and probably even decorated their homes and Guild Halls with them. Humanity has committed just as many unforgivable atrocities as the Charr.

I beg to differ here, in GW1 the Charr are simply evil and humanity is defending itself against a foe that wants to eradicate them all. Some things were retconned for GW2, for example the charr eating humans. The Charr were turned from monsters into characters, simply put. GW1 was “black and white” about it, GW2 is different concerning the Charr. Do you feel bad about taking hooves as trophies from centaurs? Or Krait skins? I don’t. Neither did i feel bad about getting Charr hides as trophies in GW1.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I disagree with the minority part, I believe they just the portion that doesn’t like the plan of playing nice for the time being. Queen Jennah’s words from the Jubilee and the fact the Watch Knight was made to appear as Rytlock, a high ranking Charr, suggests the humans will resume the war once the Elder Dragon threat has been neutralized and no other threat has arisen to contest their rule.

Anise did this to shock Logan, it is not an indication that Kryta plans to start a war against the Charr. Don’t try to turn the Charr into victims while they have been the aggressors for the last 1250 years.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

The Charr struck from a better position than the humans, the Charr homelands weren’t ravaged like Ascalon

So you agree that Ascalon was not part of the Charr homelands?

Darkbattlemage.9612:

If the Charr had two and half centuries to simply focus on Ascalon, they would of eventually won through attrition as Ascalonians already had suffered grievous blows to their population thanks to the Searing.

The Charr were held back for generations by the Great Northern Wall and could not overcome it without help from the Titans, and through them, from Abbadon. In GW1 there is no sign that the charr would eventually have won, one can actually find evidence for the opposite, like the quest “The last day dawns” where you beat the Charr “army” (it’s some Charr representing their army) plus their masters the Titans. GW1 is actually a stalemate, with neither side gaining the upper hand. It was changed for GW2.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Can’t speak for the others but I’m not ignoring the fact the humans of Ascalon have occupied that area for at least a millennium prior to the war with the Charr. The Charr did claim the land prior to the humans settling the area and thus their claims are as legitimate now as the humans. The Charr do have one thing that seems to be lacking in the old Ascalonians that remained as well as certain players who are for this action, common sense. When the humans first invaded, the Charr didn’t blindly throw themselves at the humans. On the contrary they retreated in order to strike from a more defensible position. They searched for their own gods to counter the human gods, which led to them developing scientific based technologies to replace said gods.

Humanity, for the time being, is not in the position to strike at the Charr. They only have one fortress in that particular region, to my knowledge anyways, as well as various problems. It is wiser to accept Ascalon as a defeat and focus on the current problems.

A renewed conflict for Ascalon seems to be very unlikely. Players become the commander of the Pact and as such they would most likely be in a situation to negotiate, and not fight for one or the other side.

I disagree that players who would fight to reclaim Ascalon lack common sense though. If given a choice i would fight, too. One should not easily forget all the things the Charr did, and until recently, while the human conquest of Ascalon was 1250 years ago. Humans never ate Charr for example.

The citizens of Ebonhawke have lived under siege till 2 or so years ago, it is understandable that they stay distrustful of the Charr. Especially since they still have to defend against Charr Renegades. The ones among humanity whose behaviour is not acceptable are the Separatists, but they appear to be a minority.

And trying to regain lost territory for centuries by waging war against human Ascalon, or laying siege to Ebonhawke for 250 years is not really showing any common sense on the Charr’s side either imo, but GW1’s Charr were simply different – they wanted to eradicate humanity, and not just reclaim Ascalon.

The Charr of GW2 would most likely negotiate, like they are currently doing with Kryta. But this is ingame “reality”, different yet from the background information about the Charr, which shows them in a way that it is more likely that they would start another war if not for all their problems, because conflict is an essential part of their culture. But as i said, “reality” ingame is different.

LA is destroyed, many of its inhabitants being dead. The council will need outside help to rebuild the city (hopefully in stone this time), and i am not sure that a lot of LA’s ships have survived. That means that materials for rebuilding will have to come over land and therefore through Kryta. Which gives Kryta a strong negotiating hand. Any great power offering help to rebuild LA would not let the opportunity pass to gain more influence.

And what would speak against Kryta ruling over LA? Every species can come and go in the Black Citadel, in Rata Sum, in Divinity’s Reach, as long as they obey the local laws.

So i assume that, should LA be rebuild (and i am pretty sure of that), Kryta would offer help on the condition of negotiating a new treaty which is more in their favour than the one forced onto Kryta by Cobiah Marriner.

Kalavier.1097:

There is no war between races to be had, and at most it’d be Charr attacking Ebonhawke and… that’s it. They literally didn’t care about Kryta.

The Charr planned an attack on LA from the sea as late as the time of Zhaitan’s awakening – their scoutship survives the Tsunami and fishes Cobiah Marriner out of the sea, so that a human could negotiate for them at LA (they badly needed to reach a port), without them getting lynched immediately. But true, today the Charr got no interest in Kryta any more – they got their hands full with too many other opponents.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Lion’s Arch has a treaty with the Centaurs, just like the Charr and humans have a treaty with one another. How I understand this treaty so long as the Centaur do not actively harm or otherwise hinder Lionguard protected caravans, the Lionguard will not attack the Centaur. This itself is not reason enough for Divinity’s Reach to seize Lion’s Arch.

You mean Lion’s Arch HAD a treaty with the centaurs. LA is gone, and i do not shed a tear for it. Only for the few remains of old LA that are getting destroyed by Scarlet’s drill. LA was able to keep its independence because Kryta was too busy elsewhere (and because it was meant to be a meeting place for all species, game mechanic wise). LA’s position has drastically changed, i would not be surprised if the pirate council will be forced to negotiate a…less favourable agreement with Kryta now.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I misunderstood that you were implying Ascalon wasn’t part of the Charr homeland.

Ascalon wasn’t part of the Charr homelands in GW1, that was changed for GW2. The Charr originally came from east of the Blazeridge mountains, and take a look at the GW1 EotN map – it shows the Charr homelands, and it is not Ascalon.

People also conveniently ignore the fact that humanity had been living in Ascalon for a thousand years. If that is not enough to have turned Ascalon into human land then today’s Ascalon is not Charr land either. The Charr’s hold on Ascalon is not justified by a moral claim to the land, but because they conquered it.

Are people seriously complaining about some part of a Ranger’s build being overpowered? Rangers do not have a choice if they want a pet or not, so they make the best out if it – just like pretty much every other class got mechanisms that people complain about.

But this is the first time i see someone complain about Rangers being OP (there is no distinction between the Ranger and the pet, they are part of one build only).

If a Ranger is capable of killing you then start thinking about what you can do against it. There are plenty of WvW guilds that do not want Rangers among them because they are seen as being weak.

Seriously, adapt to the situation, find out how to deal with pets in the best possible way for your class, but do not ask for a nerf. Ranger is the last class that needs that.

Uruz Six.6594:

I repeat again: ‘What does God need with a starship?’ The other dragons woke up just fine on their own, why does Mordremoth need a giant drill?

Do you expect logical explanations in a Fantasy setting where magic exists (and where multiple writers are working on the storyline)?

I do get your Star Trek reference though. If you compare that powerless being from the movie with an Elder Dragon you can see the answer: God doesn’t need a starship.

Mordremoth doesn’t need a drill or the Ethercannon to wake up, it is most likely perfectly capable of rising on its own. It’s Scarlet who needs the drill to reach it and attempt to kill it.

Since the end of Zhaitan hasn’t happened in the Living Story timeline it doesn’t know that a big cannon shot (or will shoot) Zhaitan’s tail off. Mordremoth probably doesn’t know what up-to-date technology can do to it, or it could be that a shot from the Ethercannon is like a morning coffee for it, helping it to get up faster.

In the end it’s a theory that will be proven correct or false. I could live with either, by the way.

My impression from the pieces of information given to us so far is that Scarlet aroused the interest of something immensely powerful when she gazed into the very fabric of the world. She gazed into the Abyss and the Abyss gazed back at her.

This being started to corrupt Scarlet immediately and managed to do so when it comes to her physical form – her namechange and the way she killed Omadd clearly shows it. Her mind is still resisting and it drove her insane. But she is still so much in control that she started her big plan to find and kill whatever it is that is tormenting her.

She found the location where it is resting, and has started to dig down towards it so that her Ethercannon can fire at it and kill it. I am sure that’s her plan, but it will most likely backfire badly. She is most likely doing what the sleeping creature wants her to do – help it rise.

So my prediction is that the Ethercannon will basically power the being up and allow it to rise earlier than it would have without Scarlet’s unintentional “help”.

A Pact member tells you after the defeat of Zhaitan that there is “one down, four to go”, so i bet we will see the Rising of Mordremoth, the Jungle Dragon, the sixth and final Elder Dragon to awake.

I also assume that the Sylvari were meant to be dragon minions, and that Ventari and Ronan saved the seed (or shall i say one out of several) from becoming corrupted. The Dream is the Pale Tree’s way of shielding its children from corruption and Scarlet, by trying to break free from what she saw as control, has involuntarily allowed something less beneficial than the Pale Tree to gain control over her.

So with the next update we will see Scarlet fire her Ethercannon at Mordremoth, it will wake and since Scarlet still resists it will destroy her. I hope Mordremoth swallows her whole. Her alliance will fall apart, with Mordremoth probably taking over some factions like the Nightmare Court members. We, the players, will drive the remains of Scarlet’s troops out of the ruins of LA and see Mordremoth fly away.

As i said, this is my own prediction based on the pieces of information available. I’ll find out if i am correct or wrong.

If you want to gain insight into the background of Destiny’s Edge, how the Charr-Human peace talks were made possible and how GW2 Lion’s Arch came to be (the one that’s destroyed now) then pick up the books.

It’s the only glimpse you will get of the Rising of Orr and of Kralkatorrik (so far). But they were written (except Sea of Sorrows) before the game got out so they felt kinda dislocated compared to the actual gameplay experience.

Not to speak of Ghosts of Ascalon, which made me (as a GW1 player) feel uncomfortable concerning the perspective of the Human-Charr conflict from GW1. It felt kinda WRONG to me, but that’s probably just me.

If you want some entertaining reads set in the GW2 universe then go ahead and pick them up. It’s not high literature, but decent fantasy. If you are seriously interested in the Lore the books are a must-read.

What will change the face of Tyria forever will be the awakening of Mordremoth, the last Elder Dragon to rise. It will be the second Elder Dragon besides Zhaitan that we will actually get to see. It’s been sleeping under LA all the time, even during the times of GW1. The probe in LA most likely shows its location, and it’s under water, despite being associated with “nature”.

The destruction of LA will only be temporary, and i am sure we will get it back, maybe with some changes in architecture. It’s too important to not be rebuilt. If the council of captains can keep its independence remains to be seen, but i doubt that LA will fall under Krytan rule.

Scarlet is already corrupted in body by Mordremoth, she has struggled to keep her mind free from corruption but it cost her her sanity and she may just do the Elder Dragon’s bidding, without realizing it – helping it awaken. She believes she stands a chance to destroy Mordremoth with her drill and Ethercannon, but will fail.

Scarlet will take LA, we will fight her but fail in preventing her from doing so, and the final act will be her attempt to “kill” Mordremoth. Most likely Mordremoth will take her as a light snack after getting up. Afterwards we may see new dragon minions all over Tyria, besides the Nightmare Court Sylvari, that is.

Orangensaft.7139:

but why is it in the manifesto tailer ingame then?

I think there are some more skeletons around ingame, not just the one at Claw Island.

It’s just something that was planned to be ingame and made it into the manifesto trailer, but wasn’t included in the actual game. As to why exactly it wasn’t used, that’s something only the game designers know.

It’s another concept art piece of a Leviathan as far as i know. Only one Leviathan made it into the game (and the novel Sea of Sorrows), and that one is a corpse on Claw Island, it turned Risen when Zhaitan rose and was destroyed by Cobiah Marriner and his fleet many years later.

ANet, how about you actually ASK your players if they want another League?

I am not sure the majority of players wants another League (doesn’t matter how it is called) or a meta achievement that rewards one green item more than last time, or weapon skins that no one wants to use.

Once again those servers that get the most transfers will win, and we can all already tell which ones that will be. Stacked servers will get more stacked, servers with a lower WvW population (the majority) will get bashed for 7 weeks and in the end WvW will become more unbalanced than it already is.

If asked if i wanted another League my answer would be NO. I never wanted one in the first place.

There’s a nice saying that comes to my mind about it, it starts with “Fool me once…”

That’s all i can say about it.

Another example how they changed the lore to turn the Charr into a playable race. When looking at the GW1 map of Tyria, one can clearly see the Charr Homelands – but oops, it’s not Ascalon.

After a thousand years of living there it had become human land – if claims from a thousand years ago are still valid, then why not claims from 2000 or so years ago, when Ascalon wasn’t Charr land? It also means that humanity got the right to bear a grudge agains the Charr and kill as many as they can for another 750 years, don’t they?

I think the Charr should give Ascalon back to its rightful owners, the Grawl. The Charr can always withdraw to their homelands east of the Blazeridge mountains.

Still going on about that alliance thing? There was an alliance during the last 2 days or so of the SBI-YB-EBay match because SBI had been complaining about it all week. Otherwise we focused SBI much more than EBay, just like we did during the matches against BP during League. BP caused that themselves, due to their reputation. You made both opposing servers focus you.

ReverendChan.8467:

To Maglowestrankofgoldseason1 and Yak’s Bend: do be aware not everyone on SBI gets up in arms about 2v1 and most of them are fairly disappointed in the negativity displayed here over it.

While i appreciate the voice of reason that you represent, i have to tell you that it is too late to speak out for SBI – at least when it comes to YB their reputation is pretty much below every other server.

This is because no other server did behave like SBI – i know that there are people among them that are reasonable, but their voices aren’t heard well among the accusations of match manipulation, cheating and comparisons of YB to people and organizations whose names can’t be mentioned unless i want an infraction. That, together with the seemingly endless amount of complaining and the ongoing griefers coming to our server make us believe that SBI is what the majority of posters at this Forum makes them appear to be. And we remember the behaviour of SBI during weeks when they won against us.

That being said, i appreciate your post. I still target SBI first when i see them and Mags fight.

Gahzirra.8639:

Funny how perceptions coincide with reality…Yak’s and Ebay separated, and Yaks is losing to SBI as well. Did learn in the Yaks/Ebay realtionship who the pitcher and catcher was, Ebay always 2nd.

Still sour about that defeat you got in League week 6? I think you can be glad that YB dislikes Maggs even more than your server and vice versa. The outcome of this week doesn’t change the League result, no matter how hard you try. Cheers!

BP is still blaming their defeats onto a perceived alliance between EBay and us? Why am i not surprised…

Good thing is that BP won’t reflect on their shortcomings and improve.

Good luck Ehmry Bay!

Nuking.4051:

Let me break it down for you, when you beat the hell out of those who have nothing to play for then you might be left with nobody to play against…… I dare say your lack of a challenge was partially fueled by your servers approach to the week.

Let me break it down for YOU, if you had shown the spirit you are showing now, 1 day before the end of the week, it would have been a better match for all of us. Maybe you feel like you got nothing to lose, but then i wouldn’t have come to our BL today to flip our keeps.

EBay, your jellyfish migration was fun to watch. I appreciate the gesture, even if others on my server didn’t.

If you had started with it at the beginning of the week it would probably have been a more challenging match. By now it is too little, too late.

Khayoss.2019:

BP and EBay say no more WP’s at home for you YB!

So you admit that your servers have teamed up?

It was a nice try, i hope EBay enjoyed the visit we made in return to their BL. Cheers!

That was truly a golden moment BP provided to us in NE camp in our BL, trebbing our hills. True, i was dead, but it had been my mission to get close enough to count your numbers. And then to just relax and enjoy the show, knowing what was going to happen to you. “These guys are about to get stomped” one of us said in map chat and that’s what happened – truly a golden moment.

Zepher.7803:

when either of the servers buddy isn’t around BP will remind you who is boss yet again. don’t forget it next time we get ya alone and no QQ please, it really is unbecoming.

2 more days and this madness is over, gratZ to everyone everywhere hope you all found something fun during this event.

Both opposing servers are attacking us but we are still in the lead. If it makes you feel better, then just believe in cooperation between us and EBay. So, even with a third server in play BP can’t beat us. It may change in the future, who knows, but currently you can’t beat YB. That’s why your Forum warriors are all silent. I remember matches before the league when you showed the manners that gave your server the reputation it still has. This week is a three-sided match and you are still losing. And you getting us “alone” is nothing you would want.

No one can beat BP in terms of Forum dominance. But that’s about the only thing where they are unbeaten. Well maybe Maggs can beat them there, not sure after some of their people got perma-banned. BP on the other hand lost it’s greatest commander to SBI. So it’s some sort of dilemma here – BP or Maggs…

But one thing is for sure, we aren’t competing with you when it comes to Forum dominance. We work on beating you (again) in the actual game.

No matter how often we say that there wasn’t any alliance you guys just go on with it. We actually help EBay now to get 2nd this week, yes, but that’s not an alliance. And we do so because you guys boasted about still being 2nd despite a perceived alliance between EBay and us. It helps us improve relationships with EBay, which haven’t been all good in the past. But SBI, restrain from calling it match manipulation please. Or from making some really ugly comparisons.

Yaks, this match is not yet over, keep going and please don’t gloat about the score here. EBay, go go and take 2nd place!

So you are saying that you are out for revenge in the future because of one loss? What about those servers that lost to you in the past? You know, this works both ways, i would watch out for more servers making you their priority target from now on. But sure, bring it on in the future, i think most of us do not mind it, and it doesn’t change this weeks result. Sorry to say so, but we are not intimidated.

I do not like griefing, no matter who does it. But be so kind as not to accuse an entire server of cheating, or use it as an excuse for losing.

You lose this week because YB got better tactics, better strategy, and after some days, better coverage too. You expected an easy win, and lost players after it became obvious it would not be like that.

We are not in an alliance with Ebay, but both them and us do focus you – ask yourself why. Biggest threat together with being one of the, how shall i put it, less well liked servers are the reasons.

You aren’t used to lose to a server lower ranked than you and that hurts your pride – it shouldn’t, but that is symptomatic for why other Silver League servers cheer for YB. Instead of looking for excuses you could contemplate on why you are losing this week and try to work on deficiencies.

That and a change of attitude from your Forum Warriors. Don’t take things too seriously, it IS only a game after all.

Oh, and building a Ballista to attack a gate is not a smart idea. Just telling.

So i watched FA Forum Warriors try to convince themselves about how great they are all week long…time to throw in my 2 cents.

Seems like you FA guys can’t decide to try to ridicule or to compliment us – we care about neither. A server that drops down into Silver league either on purpose or due to getting beaten down, knowing they will probably have no serious competition in Silver, bragging about how great they are? Funny thing. Not exactly something to make you earn my respect.

You were “warned” about YB giving in? Let me guess, by your friends Borlis Pass? Now that is really funny. You guys expected to completely roll over us and that didn’t happen – neither did you damage our confidence.

When we roll over weaker servers it’s nothing to make me feel good about it. So i wonder if it’s your drop down to Silver that makes you feel the need to bragg about your “accomplishments”? Pathetic.

We don’t win by points this week, but you didn’t get the victory you expected out of this match-up. And that doesn’t surprise me. Be angry about it all you want.

Walnut.8420:

Shout out to Yak’s Bend! Thanks for the PPT, Bags, World XP, Regular XP, Karma, Making you waste your money, making you waste your time, the rares, the laughs, the exotics, The meta achievement, the money, and the domination! Love you guys! Keep up the good work! I’m taking names!

Why did you forget to mention that you are our dear friend Walnut from Ebay? Just because your old server got soundly beaten by us and you couldn’t make your words true about flipping our BL made you switch to a stronger server? You are aware how that looks to us, right? Thanks for once more providing entertainment for us.

Tynan.6279:

Yak’s is full of ego and fair weather, trash talk is all they got to make them selves feel better.

What exemplary manners you are showing here, it’s amusing.

You are missing a few points that we usually get to hear from the likes of you, like “YB can only Zerg and their players are all terrible”.

FA seems to feel the need to trash talk their opponents down, ever asked yourself why this is so? Feel free to do so, we couldn’t care less about your opinion of us, actually.

etrigan.4213:

This man gets obsessed with payback lol.

Related to a guy from BP i guess, what was the name…i think he begged you to take our BL since his server couldn’t.

zwierz.9012:

It’s what I loved about Guild Wars Prophecies, actually. In the end, running away from the charr, Ascalonians settled in Kryta, thanks to kindness of the White Mantle, but then afraid of them and the Mursaat, heroes joined forces with Khilbron, who pretended to be on their side, lead them to destroy the Mursaat, and used the players to release Titans.

In the end, it was THE PLAYERS who were the evil ones, unintentionally bringing destructive forces down on Tyria.

Or not, depending on one’s point of view, and how one likes to read the events, after all, we did save Tyria from Abaddon. But would he even POSE a threat if we didn’t help Khilbron in the first place?

As we later saw, Abaddon had multiple plans on his mind, the Titans, the corruption of Shiro and Nightfall. He wouldn’t have given up on destroying humanity and getting revenge on the other gods. If we hadn’t helped Khilbron getting the scepter, would he have managed on his own? We can’t tell, but he most likely wouldn’t have managed to open the door of Komalie. So yes, we let the Titans in, but we also destroyed them.

About the Mantle, i always thought that they didn’t invite the Ascalonians to Kryta for selfless reasons, but to be able to look for the Chosen among them. Ironically they themselves shielded the true Chosen from getting found.

During times of GW1 i had also assumed that the Mursaat had originally come from the Realm of Torment themselves, and had fled to Tyria from the Titans. After hearing about the Flameseeker Prophecies they must have had all the more reason to keep the Titans locked away. GW2 lore has disproven this, since the Mursaat had been around for much longer than the Fall of Abbadon. A pity, i liked the idea that the Mursaat had come from there.