Guild Wars 2

I love love love this first episode of season 2! The pacing and storytelling has seen so much improvement, it felt like an engaging narrative right from the start. I was posititvely surprised to find four (or was it five?) consecutive story instances as you progressed into throughout the zone. I like how it had a bit of platforming, a bit of fighting, a boss battle and an epilogue with optional investigation for more background and lore. I hope this isn’t the end of the Zephyrites (or their Labyrinthine Cliffs thing) though, I really like them and their architecture! I also like how we uncover some background on Scarlet. While I disliked her random zany overpowered appearances as a villain in season 1, finding her holomagic stuff in that house makes a nice attempt in making the character a little more believable, even after her death. Also the little references to personal storylines, such as Riot Alice, were a nice touch! And all the conversations throughout Prosperity, I love things like that, it really fleshes out the world atmosphere.

But best of all, if I have less time to play, now I can play whenever I want and not miss stuff – I can’t stand rushing in games, so much love for that.

I love the diverse human cultures in the GW setting .. so some of my characters evoke a bit of the mysterious atmosphere from long forgotten lands! Here are my Elonian Paragon-inspired Guardian and mysterious desert nomad Mesmer and my Canthan warrior. And last but not least, my Ritualist inspired petless gimmick necromancer – who as an additional twist, is also of Elonian descent – to me the Ritualist imagery fits really well with the Elonian style, sooo I made a bit of a hybrid there.

I love this game and really liked those new features, including the wardrobe system .. but removing our existing town clothes combinations is ridiculous! Especially considering that people actually paid for it. I supported this game by purchasing plenty of those town clothes to mix and match amongst my characters, prefab tonics won’t cut it. My heavy armoured main character will now be deprived of regular clothes for non-combat RP and he definitely isn’t gonna use a full costume to dress like a pirate or scarecrow. Hopefully you’ll find a solution or something, by adding a ‘non-combat’ weight class in the wardrobe, to incorporate the old town cloth system.

Not cool!

It’s very important to me, I can’t enjoy RPG type games if I don’t like the setting or story. I can’t even imagine me playing an RPG where I wouldn’t care about the lore but only about the gameplay.

I always give my characters appropriate names and dress them up appropriately to the setting. No flaming shoulders, no overuse of skulls, no rainbows, no boilerplate dredge armour, no nightmare armour on non-sylvari, no horrible full abyss demon guardians with bat wings or whatever it is they do, and no tentacle backpacks. Luckily, the pieces that I consider to be fashion disasters are quite limited in this game. ^^

While I’m really a traditional swords and sorcery person, I love how they blended in the steampunk-like elements. Though currently with the whole Scarlet stuff, it became a little too prevalent.

About the story .. I think with the personal story they started out quite good! But unfortunately it then started to feature the tree commander with the most uninspiring voice I’ve ever heard, who casually announces in one mission that he’s going to summon some blood fiend skeleton horde. My faithful guardian should really have had an option to deter him there, i.e. punch his lights out. :P

With the living story it was the opposite for me .. I think they started out quite weak with the seemingly random collect things in 100 places quests. Then some time later they got the content right; and even if some things turned into a zerg fest the first few days it was really nice to see that actual things happened, such as the Zephyr Sanctum and Jubilee. At times the writing was a bit hit and miss though, some parts were great and some (almost zany) parts less so. But overall I think it has improved tremendously over the year. To me, that was especially visible during the last few episodes starting with that tower in Kessex. That intro instance accompanying the Seraph was brilliant. Partly because I really like the Seraph imagery, and partly because it finally finally finally felt actually threatening.

Anyways, yes story and lore is very important to me. I discovered Tyria after friends nagged at me for ages to get GW2 at launch, and I like it to the extent that somewhere last year I also purchased GW1, to discover more about the history of the setting. Quite different-yet-similiar, yet it holds up very well for a 10 year old game!

I think the Atlas is quite cool. Though .. why are there Zephyr Sanctum images in Lion’s Arch? Seems not a misplacement, since I also saw different images from that event, at the actual place it was located. Mysterious!

Those weapons look excellent! I’m not a fan of the hearts and they don’t fit any of my characters in the slightest, but the design is (ha) lovely!

I hope they’ll one day make similar, more neutral designs without the heart theme, then I will likely have a purpose for my single claim ticket

As a roleplayer, I think GW2 is about the most immersive MMO RPG I’ve played. Sure it’s not perfect, but it has so many things going for it. I mean, a guy runs up to you warning about a centaur attack to the west. So you look to the west, to check if you can see the place he’s talking about – and then notice the huge pillars of smoke, to nicely point you into that direction! How is that not awesome and immersive? Sure, the event repeats 30 mins. later for the next unwary traveler, but that’s a compromise I accept, since it’s a multiplayer game rather than an ehm .. mediëval life simulator or something.^^ Waypoints are very very optional. If you don’t like them, just walk and enjoy the scenery, I do that all the time and it’s way more awesome! Sure I use them too when I’m gathering with some friends for a dungeon, for example.

I so agree in that it’s hilarious that like, a greatsword drops from a sparkfly. But then again that’s something that I’ve seen in about every RPG – so I just more or less accepted it.

Though there’s no weather? I’m absolutely certain that I’ve seen it rain or snow in several zones (rain in a lot of them actually).

I’ve actually never tried to play with the UI disabled, I’m so gonna try that, thanks for sharing the idea!

Daelin.6782:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Daelin.6782:

A couple of more pictures!

Really nice ! What are those colors ?

Thanks

The base metal colour is Charred – brings out the detail on the metal plates and sections
The alternate metal colour is Brass – matches the brass tones of the Predator
The bodysuit colour is Abyss – Wanted a very luxurious looking black leather look to the body suit
The glow colour and visor are coloured Amber – to fit with the glow of the Predator and its aura

Guardian.5142:

Daelin.6782:

A couple of more pictures!

kitten ed fine. If I could handle that shoulder piece flapping about, I’d go this route too. I hide mine. Grats on Predator. She’s a beaut.

Thanks

The shoulder piece looks okay on the current configuration – it adds a bit to the steampunk look I was going for. While I’m not a fan of that giant cog there, I do like how the rest of the piece looks. Would’ve been great if that cog was animated in some way! I am keeping an eye out for any other steampunk-y shoulder, that I could use as a viable replacement

I love steampunk, your character looks awesome!
I really like how GW2 subtly blends the steampunk with traditional fantasy, making such characters entirely lore-appropriate!

If you’re looking for a replacement shoulder, try the Watchwork ones, I think that with the right dyes, those might work with the overal sleek-but-mechanical look you went for.

I think GW2 has about the best business model for an MMO game ever. For the price of the box, I got the game and free regular updates. With a little patience, I can convert gold and get everything that’s for offer in the gemstore. I’m never good at making tons of money in games (since I like spending it!), but 50-70 gold or so is not hard at all, if you sell the crafting mats you acquire while doing stuff.

I don’t like gamble boxes, so I don’t buy Black Lion keys. Of course I’ve bought a bundle of 5 twice or thrice, just to see. And the meagre contents of those chests confirmed that I didn’t like gamble boxes, what a waste of gold! But that was entirely my fault! :P

Too bad that the new weapons are often in those chests – and oh no no no, I don’t buy keys anymore! -but then again if I save a bit, I can just get them off of the TP if I really want them.

Anyways! If GW2 would have started with a subscription fee, I would probably have subbed (after checking out the free month that the box would come with), since I like this game a lot! But going from B2P to sub would be a rrrrrrreally bad move, and one I don’t think they would make, since it literally smashes one of their main marketing points to bits.

If it went that way, I’d still like the game – but I would only sub once in a while (and definitely not continuously).

Long term rewards are excellent, nothing wrong with that. Though I do think it’s odd that you get the first three pieces of set A, then the first three pieces of set B, after which you get the boots (if I understand it correctly). It would make more sense if you would earn the sets one after another.

I was amazed looking at those leaderboards, I mean .. people have 20K? That’s insane! :P I mean, I’ve played since release and I have just a bit over 7K! My mind is thoroughly boggled, I never realized the gap was -that- large!

I think Legendary weapons should require even more. On top of a WvW rank, it should also require an sPvP rank, a title, maximum level in two crafts, the collection of all recipes from karma vendors throughout the world for those two crafts, the collection of all regular dyes, a number of wins in a minigame of your choice, completion of all dungeons, completion of personal story and a set number of achievement points. It’s a long term goal, and that would “force” everyone into everything. Don’t like PvP/WvW/PvE? Too bad, no legendary, “work” for it! :P

While I’m not interested in obtaining a Legendary weapon at all (most look nice, but too flashy for my liking – apart from the shield, that’s perfect – I hope the precursor never drops for me, since that would mean I’d be tempted to try and get one!), I think being able to buy it is a bit silly.

It would be awesome if they did something like that! A bit more controversial, I’d love to see it even a step further: limited-time invasions of other open worlds, where the invaders are disguised as (for example) Aetherblades. Should be based on server colour or something to make it a bit equal, so large realms can’t gank small realms. Also limited in time/scope – maybe tied to objectives which have to be accomplished within the hour, to get your own world certain bonuses like in WvW. It also should be regulated in some way to avoid zergs, such as splitting the invaders equally between PvE maps. Just some random thoughts, it probably won’t happen anyway!

I’m not a hardcore PvP/WvWer at all, but I think it would be exciting! Certainly a way to implement better AI: disguise opposing players as enemy models and unleash them on other worlds.^^

I guess I’m one of the few that actually thinks the Ascended armours look great! Though it depends a lot on the style of your character, the heavy helmet wouldn’t fit mine either. Though like all things, I guess it’s in the eye of the beholder. For example, I think the often seen heavy named exotic helmet and shoulders are horrible!

It’s nice to see that the Ascended armour has been translated quite faithfully from the concept art into the game!

I like my characters to be as true to lore and atmosphere of the setting as I can manage, so every Norn I have has one of the racial elite skills. Sure, for most of the classes there are better or more “efficient” elites, buuuuut .. I mean, how can I argue with turning into a bear! With just one elite slot, my Norns can hit things as bear, hit things fast as a bear, smack things into the ground as a bear, roar and charge as a bear! It’s the things like this, that increase my enjoyment of GW2 :-D

I don’t like the mask, so the gems won’t be a problem for me. But it’s kinda expensive for what you get. On the other hand, if I would really really want it I would just shut up and put in some effort to get the 40 gold to exchange – since to me it doesn’t warrant purchasing a gem card.

You see, I have this odd quirk with my gemstore purchases. I don’t mind buying the occasional card to support the game, but I only use those to buy stuff that I feel is “worth” a “real” purchase: such as character slots, good looking town clothes or full armour sets. Otherwise I’ll just save up a bit and convert.

I think the price tag is nothing I can influence anyway, so I can live with the masks being that price – as long as they stay! Maybe one day in the future, one of these masks will fit one of my characters perfectly, and I’d like to still be able to get them if that day comes. Removing stuff (like they did with those old town clothes) is just silly.

Chasind.3128:

There have been other topics regarding this; I remember reading a topic about anet, how they said every armor ingame that an npc wears will be available to your character- that was a lie. Look at countess Anise’s armor, in BETA we had it but for whatever silly reason anet got rid of it. I think there just needs to be a mass release of GW1 armors in GW2 that also look great on asura & charr

I’ve got no clue of the actual reason of course, but I suspect that missing NPC armour sets needed some kind of additional work in order to qualify for release – perhaps they had to make additional improvements for scaling or the sets didn’t look polished enough and their release was pushed back in favour of other stuff that was more important to add first. I don’t really get the whole “lie” thing that I see on these forums all the time, those NPC sets are probably still coming, or at least I have faith that they will, since I see absolutely no reason why they wouldn’t. Though I’d rather have them sooner than later! But overall, I’m just fairly patient with things.^^

Anyways, that’s obviously not an excuse for the Tribal set, since it’s already in the game! So yes that one should really be added, several pieces of that set would be perfect additions to my Norn shaman! Wasn’t there recently some info post on the homepage about a future overhaul to make PvP/PvE skins less seperate? Maybe that would also solve the issue of the missing set.

In any case, I totally agree in that I’d love to see more GW1 armour sets released for GW2! More fashion!

Sure, the unavailability of Salma district sucks, overtly large emote range sucks and we could definitely use more emotes as well as healthy range of town clothes. I agree!

But apart from that? Look around, the world is gorgeous! Divinity’s Reach is the most characterful city I’ve ever seen in a MMORPG. Don’t all those little details in the world inspire you to roleplay? For some reason, (and in more than just GW2!) many roleplayers seem to think that the world or game designers are “against them” or at least that’s what it often sounds like to me. This game features lots of stuff that can’t be used for anything else other than enhancing atmosphere and roleplay immersion.

I love the Marionette fight and especially that it doesn’t automatically succeed like some of the existing world bosses. To me, the possibility that it can fail (and even if you did your own part flawlessly) makes actually winning far more exciting!

Pointing fingers at everyone but yourself – and repeating how you can do it blindfolded with one hand behind your back – the moment even a single lane fails is easy, keeping your calm and encouraging your fellow players even in the face of adversity is a far healthier mentality. Hard fought battles are the most satisfying victory!

I’ll take fights like this over the “just hit it for 15 minutes” Shatterer any day.

I always use the yellow transmutation stones while leveling! I don’t use them every time I get new armour, I limit myself to once every 5 or 10 levels or so. Sometimes I transmute the whole set, sometimes just an iconic piece. Other times, I sideline the set for a few levels, for variety, to return to it later. Also to not go through stones too fast, it’s become a bit of a sport to see how long I can last with outleveled armour. ^^

Hah, I love leveling in this game! Just don’t focus on maximum efficiency or whatever, but take in the scenery and enjoy the ride! I’ve got myself quite a nice number of alts by now, and I’m still not bored of the world.

Everything becomes a grind if you’re approaching it as a grind. Tyria is gorgeous, just go around to see it and don’t think about levels or XP.^^

The lack of overflow-choice sucks, I totally agree.

Though I wonder how you see can see if someone’s build or gear sucks. Honest question, not some snarky comment!^^ I mean, especially in the midst of battle, I certainly can’t.

I mean, I can’t tell if people are truly oblivious and stand in the midst of an AoE marker because they don’t get it, or if it’s server/user lag (definitely not impossible in those massed events with all the spells going off).

I can’t see someone’s gear or build either, unless they link it and I somehow manage to study it mid-battle (assuming I am even experienced with their class).

I’ve been on platforms with like 3 bow wielding rangers several times: surprise surprise, we downed the boss each time. So unless I am somehow magically doing the damage of five people, they contributed to the victory just as much as I did.

Sure, inexperienced rangers can make an event fail, just like inexperienced other classes can. In group events with a chance of failure, it’s the “duty” of experienced players to do their part and educate others on how to have a better chance of success. You can execute your own platform event perfectly, but that victory goes to waste if others fail it. Some say that it’s a shame that you can’t help other platforms, but you can, just in a different way. With advice. If you are able to help in some way, then help. That is also teamwork. You might not immediately succeed because of it, but it leaves a far better and more positive experience for everyone.

I bet that: “Rangers, please put your pet on passive and avoid knockback attacks for this boss!” will get far better results than: “omg bow bear lol bad rngaer noob clas sux omg gtfo!!111”.

Aedelric.1287:

Almost every time I did the event most people treated each other with respect and were supportive/cheering rather than condescending or hateful. Even on the rare occasion we suffered a fail people were still great sports about it.

I am on Piken Square, in case you are wondering.

Ha yes, I’m on Piken Square as well and I have the exact same experience! People cheer each other on, give tips to first timers and the overall atmosphere is excellent.

In the overflows I’ve mostly found that the positive and encouraging ones tend to succeed, where those that are full of “omg u all suck it’s so easy!!11111 i can solo this on my main!!!111” or “it’s everyone’s fault except mine i never died ever it must be the rangers/engineers/elementalists/classidontplaymyself!!!” rubbish, usually fail.

For a game having karma as a currency, that actually makes sense to me! I think that if people can’t maintain a positive and encouraging atmosphere towards their fellow players even in the face of potential defeat, they don’t deserve the win anyways.

Much loooove for the new story instance! I liked the dramatic bit! It feels like especially in recent patches (I loved the instanced bit with the Seraph at the start of Kessex tower release as well), many character dialogues are written in a more believable way.

And somehow, even though I’m not a fan of Scarlet, for the first time since her initial appearance she seemed a bit more like a real threat instead of a random zany joker wannabe, so that’s well done from my perspective.

Now for the future I hope to see some more on Logan’s character, since he has so many potential character elements to make him a much needed stalwart human hero.
But this instance, he ran away before I could talk to him! The irony! :P

Both times I’ve seen it the group went splat, but I really like the Marionette fight. The different paths and coordination required made it feel “tactical” enough to be a refreshing change from the “hit the million HP boss” variety, but still doable enough to not feel disheartening. Though this is only my experience from doing the fight two times. I’d like to see something done with overflows though. It’s a perfectly good concept for lots of things, but sometimes doesn’t really seem to work out with world bosses that require both numbers and coordination, like this one.
That said, even on overflow there was plenty of organisation and the battles were well fought but just not enough to down her, very likely because it was new to everyone. Haven’t had time to check the worm yet.

I like the Tequatl fight as well, though in that one the timer and (apparent) dependance on certain people to do things perfectly while at the same time affected by server lag make things a lot more daunting. I haven’t even been able to complete it or even participate it more than a few times, since even on my populated server the fight is mostly deserted.

I loved the Queen’s Pavillion fights, unfortunately back then I didn’t have the time to progress past tier 2 or so, so I never saw Liadri. They really should bring those fights back permanently, that was amazing fun where my success or failure depended only on my own skill or lack thereof! :-D I’d like to complete those challenges in my own time, rather than only getting 2 weeks or so to be able to. I don’t need a title or reward for it, I just want to see if I can play my class well enough to do it. ^^

I totally agree, putting a starter town clothes vendor in the home instance or somewhere in the cities would be an excellent QoL improvement.

I found it a bit odd that the sparse selection of additional town clothes was removed from the gemstore. I bought the ones I wanted ages ago already (and luckily they’re account bound as well), but still it’s a pity.

If more designs become available in the future I will probably buy more, as long as the very affordable price of 200 gems max from those removed pieces would be maintained. I love outfitting and colouring my characters both armour- and town clothes wise.

Secretly though, I hope that their removal has something to do with a possible future overhaul to make a greater selection of town clothes available through various means.

Marcello all the way, he’s a proper drama queen bard! :P

Yeah I liked those as well, such an improvement in visibility even during cluttered fights! And as a bonus, aesthetically they look much nicer than the red outlined circles.

Spitfire is another excellent one; just like Heirloom it can have a wide range of colour, though instead of dark it’s more leaning towards orange.

Rust, Umber, Brass, Butterscotch, Clove are great to match up for an autumn coloured set. Autumn and Evening Red and Tangerine also go with that nicely.

Blue Rose is so vibrant, that colour can inspire a whole set; it goes very well with Burnished Steel if you’re using it on heavy armour. Ocean is also a blue colour that looks great in that way.

For heavy armour, Silver, Icing and Cinders look great. Armour lining or embellishments often stand out awesomely with Gold, Illumination or Redemption.

Blue Ice is a great looking bright white colour, a great alternative to the ridiculously expensive (and in my opinion too saturated) Celestial.

Cobalt has this awesome almost metallic/silk/maaagic sheen when used on some armours, notably the cloth part of the Norn T1 heavy chest armour.

Burgundy and Evening Red look very stately on long cloth, perfect for fine and noble-looking gowns.

A combination of Bronze and Antique Bronze will look stunning on a lot of Norn armour sets, especially when you go for a Jora inspired look as seen in some artwork.

I think I can go on for some time if unchecked, so I’d better stop now.^^

About 1500 hours for me and I think I’ve flushed down 20 gold or less since release. So I got absolutely nothing. And hey that’s alright. I know I’m not lucky, so therefore I never gamble (let alone obtain!) so much gold.

Some legendaries are definitely pretty, but most don’t fit my characters at all. Which means that the (very modest – especially compared to some posts here) amount of gold I have, I can freely spend on fashion and character slots! :-D

Hi Devata! Since you said in your earlier post that you weren’t that good at compiling the info, I tried to help and sum up your points in a way I think would be proposal-ish enough to be included. RP elements are very much in my interest as well!

Feel free to edit all you like, or slap me if you think it’s horrible. Hopefully this helps!^^

Expanding both RP-oriented and non-combat elements of character progression. An example of how this can be achieved is by making fun or collectable items (miniatures, crafting recipes, dyes), unlockable through various aspects of gameplay.

Expanding NPC interactions and optional conversations throughout the world – possibly using this as a vehicle to make additional lore and history of Tyria more accessible and known to players ingame. This includes expanding on the already included personality system.

Addition of fun non-combat crafting professions (or alternatively, add such recipes to existing ones). Make ingredients for those professions obtainable throughout the world, with a focus on the journey and exploration to get them. Obtaining the most precious recipes should be rare enough to be special, but not impossible enough to be discouraging.

Examples of fun items to make would be instruments, toys, town clothes, mini’s, furniture/decoration for housing if implemented (like paintings with miniature GW art!).

Reading the final proposal again, I’m certain/hopeful that the thing I’m about to mention will be covered by the other points. But still I’m writing it down, just in case! Hey, it might get its own glorious bullet point in the finalized proposal:

drumrolls

Roleplay elements! I bet that you’ll add quite some new things in the future, Bits of lore to discover while exploring, an ingame lore encyclopaedia, maybe artifacts to collect from 250 years ago for nostalgia. What about ..

Making your way through the dense forest you reach a clearing, the site occupied by crumbling ruins. It must have been long, since someone last set foot here. According to its layout, this was likely a fortress or garrison, so many years ago.

But what’s that?

Your eye falls upon a small half-buried object, its metal surface dimly reflecting the light of the setting sun. You brush off the mud and grime carefully as in not to damage it. Slowly, the badge’s inscription becomes visible. You are certain you’ve seen that sigil before in Queensdale, on one of the ruffians near the hunting lodge.

Congratulations! You have found a White Mantle Badge!

The Lore tab in your hero panel lights up, to warn you that a new entry has been made. You click on it to reveal details on the object you just uncovered, along with a sketch of the sigil that it contains. The page contains some info about the reign of the White Mantle before its defeat, 250 years ago. On the newly unlocked White Mantle page are 14 empty slots (as the badge you found now nicely occupies the 15th), for other artifacts and relics linked to the White Mantle. On mouseover, each of the slots displays its rumoured location, and perhaps a cryptic hint. With each item of the White Mantle collection you will find, you unlock a little more history about the item itself or the organisation. After finding them all, you unlock something. Perhaps the Confessor title, a White Mantle Knight mini, or a White Mantle costume.

On to the next page! Hmm, is that a faded Shining Blade emblem carved in that tree? ..

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the proposal I believe we are making, please discuss and let me know if anything should be added or removed. Note many of us have read the thread internally and thus there has already been valuable impact.

Our Horizontal Progression Proposal

The Reward and Associated Journey

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing (Customizable from rewards gained in the open world), Guild Halls (Customizable from mass play rewards) and Map Wide Meta events unlocked through Faction progression (Leading to both individual and group rewards such as titles and skins)

— Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

— Hero Recognition (Reward) is a by product of the above two types of Horizontal Progression leading to Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

Global Rule Proposal governing the above:

- Where possible use the above design paradigm to reinforce and evolve the existing world.
- Players should be able to have multiple methods of achieving ‘Grail Quests’, rather than a section of the journey being based on Jumping Puzzles and that alone for example.
-A reworked (cleaner) version of Signet of Capture would work very well for Role Diversification.
- Sub-classes will be discussed again in a CDI once Arena finishes its current balance work in regard to roles.
- QOL features such as a wardrobe should support this global design.

Once we have discussed the proposal and the thread reaches conclusion we will sticky it and move onto CDI Process Evolution Phase 2.

Note this is the formulation of a collaborative proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of associated actions or schedule.

Thank you all so much for your hard work and your passion toward making GW2 awesome. This has been a really good CDI and I want to thank you on behalf of Arena for caring so much about the world we love.

Chris

Bump. The following reminder added:

Note this is the formulation of a collaborative proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of associated actions or schedule.

Chris

That’s a nice CDI proposal for sure!^^ I think it’s been a very interesting read, showing that there’s an amazing font of combined creativity to be tapped from, here. It’s really nice to see that you’re taking the players’ ideas into consideration in order to improve on an already awesome game. I’m glad I was able to participate in it. :-)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Gaebriel.3754:

This got me thinking more on the following, some of which I already briefly mentioned in an earlier post:

Journey Challenge:
A mission directs you to an NPC scout (located at the zone’s entrance or one of the camps) to activate this mode. You remain in the open world, but this mode deactivates all waypoints in the zone and gives you several enemies to defeat and/or places to reach for clues, puzzles and the like. If you die, you will respawn at the scout’s location. That would inject some good old fashioned fear of dying into traveling. This Journey Challenge could be linked to a mission to unlock archetypes.

Additionally, this could be available for every zone as a zone completion challenge mode. You will have to discover the entire zone (again ..!), including the waypoint locations (though they are deactivated) to unlock your zone reward: a themed armour set as well as a page with the lore of the zone, added to your personal ingame Tyria encyclopaedia tab (as mentioned in my earlier post).

Players are rewarded with a title when they complete the Journey Challenges for a group of zones: all Kryta maps, all Ascalon maps, etc. A further title could be rewarded for completing all the zone challenges in the world.

So in short, Journey Challenges:

• Get players into the world and encourage them to traverse the various gorgeous environments of Tyria.
• Instil a sense of progression easily tracked by the already existing map completion meter, and offer a tangible reward for completing it.
• Expand on the Guild Wars 2 core gameplay elements with minimal alterations. The challenges are comprised of elements already in the game, with the exception of UI elements, rewards and deactivation of waypoints on a character basis.
• Could be challenging and potentially time-consuming depending on player skill, but very doable.
• Are fairly long term and give players something substantial to do (unless you’re super hardcore of course).
• Are entirely optional, but give access to titles, fashion and lore.

Hi Gaebriel,

I love how you start with a game play example and then list the mechanics of your design. This is a really good best working practice.

As a player I also really like the design and see it almost like a ‘Grail Quest’ in its most traditional and beloved sense. Something that Chrispy also alluded this design idea to, calling it a Pilgrimage to Enlightenment!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/48#post3470419

It gets me really excited in terms of a thematic device for horizontal progression that could house a lot of ideas that have been put forward regarding utilization of existing and new content within zones.

I would add including LW into this wrapper however assuming we were able to solve the accessibility problem.

Good stuff!

Chris

Thanks! I tried to be as clear as I could – good to know that the format was helpful, I’ll try to do my future CDI posts in that style as well. ;-)

And as someone who’s really into chivalrikittenerature and all that, I love it that you picked up on my suggestion’s similarities to a grail quest and used that in your final summary.^^

I

I heartily approve of the thought of adding such RP touches and minor benefits depending on what personality choices you made. To me, it’s the flavourful little things like those, that make good games just that little bit more enjoyable.

Expanding on the use for the different personality traits that a character can have, is indeed a nice little horizontal progression element. It doesn’t need to effect anything to do with stats, but it adds just that bit of atmosphere and character that makes RPG’s awesome.^^

Also as an example of another one of those nice touches which is actually in the game: I found an locked Norn (I believe) lodge somewhere on my Vigil oriented main character. When I interacted with the door, it said it was locked and had some scratches in the wood. I thought nothing of it and moved on. Much later, I stumbled into the same lodge with a character who is with the Order of Whispers. “Oh wait, it’s that locked one.” is what I thought. Though somehow I clicked on the door anyway. Great was my surprise, when the Whispers character actually identified the scratch marks as some sort of code and did something to open the door. Inside the lodge was (if I remember correctly) a torch that activated a hidden door, and some books or case logs. Nothing special, but it was Awesome to discover that!

@Devata:
The Zone Challenge that I proposed is totally in the open world, the waypoint deactivation would be for your character only, for a personal challenge. :-)

@Tobias: Ah no, I didn’t mean solo instances, though that could be interesting too!

What I meant was to be able to toggle a Zone Challenge mode at an NPC, which will then remove all waypoint access for that character only. You would still be in the open world, it’s just an additional self-imposed challenge for fame, glory and fashion. You could of course toggle it on/off at will, at the Challenge NPC.

This got me thinking more on the following, some of which I already briefly mentioned in an earlier post:

Journey Challenge:
A mission directs you to an NPC scout (located at the zone’s entrance or one of the camps) to activate this mode. You remain in the open world, but this mode deactivates all waypoints in the zone and gives you several enemies to defeat and/or places to reach for clues, puzzles and the like. If you die, you will respawn at the scout’s location. That would inject some good old fashioned fear of dying into traveling. This Journey Challenge could be linked to a mission to unlock archetypes.

Additionally, this could be available for every zone as a zone completion challenge mode. You will have to discover the entire zone (again ..!), including the waypoint locations (though they are deactivated) to unlock your zone reward: a themed armour set as well as a page with the lore of the zone, added to your personal ingame Tyria encyclopaedia tab (as mentioned in my earlier post).

Players are rewarded with a title when they complete the Journey Challenges for a group of zones: all Kryta maps, all Ascalon maps, etc. A further title could be rewarded for completing all the zone challenges in the world.

So in short, Journey Challenges:

• Get players into the world and encourage them to traverse the various gorgeous environments of Tyria.
• Instil a sense of progression easily tracked by the already existing map completion meter, and offer a tangible reward for completing it.
• Expand on the Guild Wars 2 core gameplay elements with minimal alterations. The challenges are comprised of elements already in the game, with the exception of UI elements, rewards and deactivation of waypoints on a character basis.
• Could be challenging and potentially time-consuming depending on player skill, but very doable.
• Are fairly long term and give players something substantial to do (unless you’re super hardcore of course).
• Are entirely optional, but give access to titles, fashion and lore.

I’ve seen some people write about how waypoints – while convenient – remove a bit of the feeling of discovery (I agree on both).

Maybe those missions -while set in the open world – could add special conditions only noticeable by the character who’s playing it, to make them more dangerous. Such as .. deactivate all waypoints from the zone! Then, you start at one end and your objective is at the other end, like in a cave with nasty things surrounded by lava and only accessible by a small bridge.

Actually: besides using it in missions, it would be cool to have a ‘deactivate all waypoints’ zone challenge mode. That would be on a per-character basis, and it adds something to do in every zone, like a GW2 take on Vanquishing.

I love the ideas involving collecting hints and story fragments, as well as the zone-specific skins to unlock with dynamic events happening in that zone.

Speaking of that .. Maybe even add an encyclopaedia of the world to unlock bit by bit, containing lore and stories from all over Tyria, illustrated with artwork like in the living story tab. Couple that with things that now give a boring achievement point reward! For example: after killing a number of enemies, along with a nice Slayer achievement you unlock the creature’s page containing lore and history. Perhaps possible material drops (such as basilisks in Queensdale dropping small scales, and those in Frostgorge dropping armoured scales). A lot of existing artwork and wiki pages could basically be reused in the encyclopaedia, but it would feel really rewarding unlocking that in the game. Well, at least to me. I love things like those little booklets with the missions in GW1.^^

Ludovicus.7980:

Gaebriel.3754:

Yeah, it would be awesome if skill trainers or champions to capture them from would be wandering the world (or zone). That would encourage people to adventure and going out to search for them. Or perhaps some of them could turn up only when specific events are completed successfully, preferably the more obscure and hidden ones. Maybe require people to talk to specific NPC’s or scouts, to get hints about their location.

Yes, that’s the kind of progression that I’d like to see. The current way to learn skills feels flat to me. I know A.Net tried to make the skill acquisition equal for every class. But I don’t know if that was the right thing to do. Even if that was in the right direction due to their philosophy.

I think the current skill acquisition system is interesting and fairly varied, but only at the earlier levels. At a certain point the skills just stop and the points don’t. Having an excessive amount of them at higher levels is what makes them less interesting, since there’s never again the feeling of ‘awesome, if I find those last two points on the map I could finally get skill X’. You just allocate some points from your pool and that’s it.

Yeah, it would be awesome if skill trainers or champions to capture them from would be wandering the world (or zone). That would encourage people to adventure and going out to search for them. Or perhaps some of them could turn up only when specific events are completed successfully, preferably the more obscure and hidden ones. Maybe require people to talk to specific NPC’s or scouts, to get hints about their location.

Deified.7520:

Step Two: Contact
Notify the players of a new skill. Avoid Mail. Mail is boring and allows players to continue to sit in LA. Put Order bases in each of the capital cities. At these bases will be “Couriers” or “Messengers”. Players talk to them and if you added a new skill there will be a chat option for it. These Couriers will acknowledge the player as a part of their faction and if the player has done the Personal story last mission they will have a special dialog greeting for them.

The various Orders actually have bases in the capital cities, or at least the Vigil and Priory do. The Whispers’ ones tend to be a bit more hidden, which would actually be nice to keep that way. Perhaps they could have a Mysterious Contact in a city instead, who then gives you a hint of a nearby base.

In addition to the multi-racial Orders, it would be nice to see race-specific factions to do missions and tasks for. One of my favourite bits of living story was the part where you went into the Toxic Alliance infested Kessex Hills with a group of Seraph. My favourite bits of personal story were also those that focused on my chosen race, with the struggle between the Seraph and Ministry Guard, the corrupt minister and the bandits with connections to a hidden White Mantle cult.

While faction could take many shapes or forms, I would think it best to focus on racial factions first and ‘exotic’ factions (such as Hylek, Ogres) later – mostly because I think those would feel more ‘personal’ to the players’ characters. For example, I would love to see more things explored by aiding factions such as the Seraph and possibly unlocking rewards or titles, that indicate your time of service with them. Perhaps skills that you could only buy after attaining a sufficient standing with them. It would be awesome if every race had several iconic factions to support, to further involve the players in the lore of the world.

Then if you want to gain standing with the factions of other races, you have to give a little extra effort. If racial factions offered different racial themed skills to unlock at the highest standing, it would make it more special and rewarding to unlock those from other races.

Possible factions could include:
The Seraph, the Ministry Guard, the different Charr Legions, the different Spirits of the Wild, the Wolfborn, the Ebonhawke Fallen Angels, the Asuran Colleges, the Soundless, the different sylvari Cycles, the (what’s the name again) Circus .. So many possibilities to explore!^^

I’ve never completed the fight itself, partly due to overflows and not being at the right place at the right time, but with Tequatl, I think one of the things might be that people get into turrets and get a sudden new set of skills presented to them (I might be wrong here, but I’m assuming that the turrets only work when the actual fight is underway). The same is true for other events, such as the guns that you can pick up in the Jormag fight. That one is a lot more forgiving, but what happens is the same: it suddenly presents players with a whole bunch of new skills which they have to check out in a hurry since the fight is already underway. Maybe it’s an idea to better familiarize players with such things, so they can actually go in a bit more prepared (and yes true, currently Jormag isn’t that challenging at all, but that’s not my point.^^). It could be tied into lore as well. The Durmand Priory dedicates itself to knowledge and research and has multiple outposts throughout the game. Perhaps they could offer tutorials on mysterious experimental weapons such as these. Maybe people at a Charr weapon forge could teach about the Charrzooka’s. Or maybe put all those tutorial NPC’s in a player’s home instance. I’d like to see lore-based factions and NPC’s out in the world teaching players such things, instead of having them just pop up in the UI.

I love looking at threads like these, here are a few of mine!^^

About unlocking skills and thingies: I think skill point challenges are already interesting now (in most cases). Some spawn a veteran or group of enemies, sometimes you get a riddle (I love things like that!) or sometimes it offers a little lore about the importance of the place of power (to me, such little snippets of lore are also a reward in itself, though a shame that those places of power aren’t more interactive.^^). But the main thing with how it works now, is that the system feels far more interesting and rewarding early in the game than it does later on; of course since at a certain point the skills dry up but the skill points don’t. I think it’s definitely a system that works and could be expanded upon, if only there was a way that make those points more valuable later on as well. It’s just far more exciting (and feels more rewarding as a result) to find and complete three of these challenges to buy a skill you wanted, than it is to just take 25 points from your pool and buy it.

I liked those ideas proposed earlier with ties to the Order missions, or a personal trainer instance where you use that specific skill. But indeed, open world would be better.

My following comment might not be accurate, since I’ve never done one myself so don’t really know how it works: but maybe you could take some elements from Guild Missions to hunt down skill points, like bounty hunt. If I understand correctly, you have to track down and then kill an enemy in a certain zone/time? That sounds interesting, and if it already works for Guild Missions it might also be an option for skill hunting.

Gulesave.5073:

Archetypes (SubClasses)

Archetypes beyond the default can be unlocked after level 80 by completing difficult profession-specific challenges. Once unlocked, archetypes can be changed at the expense of some skillpoints. Each archetype for a profession has a distinct visual theme and variation of their F1-4 primary mechanic. Traits, weapons, and other skills would be unaffected.

The examples below try to introduce more control and support.

Example 1: Mesmer

• The Tragedian’s Monarch (default)
  • Theme: Lavender phantasms & butterflies
  • Mechanic: Shatter illusions for damage and conditions
• The Comedian’s Pariah
  • Theme: Red-violet phantasms & bats
  • Mechanic: Shatter illusions for area healing, boons, and fear

Example 2: Necromancer

• The Mortician (default)
  • Theme: Fleshy minions
  • Mechanic: Attacks during Death Shroud
• The Ritualist
  • Theme: Spirit minions (they function the same, but look different)
  • Mechanic: Reflects attacks, buffs minions, and heals allies during Death Shroud

I’m really a bit of two minds regarding subclasses; while I like the idea of further specialization and as such ‘progressing’ your class, on the other hand it shouldn’t impose restrictions in a ‘subclass A is sooo much better for damage’ way.

That’s why I find this idea I quoted above quite interesting! It adds minor alterations to the function key mechanics – which I think is quite an elegant way to do it, and definitely better than the restriction of certain traits or weapons to certain subclasses. But most importantly to me, it offers possible ‘horizontal’ variations for the character in terms of atmosphere and visual distinction.

But then again I’m a bit of an altoholic and character customization ‘addict’, I totally could make 5 rangers and make them all entirely different right now, as well. :P

Speaking of crafting, that could also be a bit expanded on and mainly in terms of looks, since especially for weaponcrafting professions all the things look the same from start to end. Okay that’s exaggerating a bit, but it would be nice if you could like, hunt down specific rare materials in order to craft things with different skins. For example, I like that some karma vendors offer recipes with skins not normally gotten through crafting (like those Godskull things).

Perhaps hide the ingredients in the various chests throughout the world. I think it’s best to then also make those materials account bound, so you actually have to get those items in the world instead of being able to buy them on the TP. Maybe make the materials reflect the zones of the world. For example to forge an old Ascalonian style blade, you need 5 different ingredients that spawn in chests throughout Ascalon zones. Or perhaps tie them to events in those zones. I think that those kinds of things also inspire people to wander the world in search for them. Little touches like these could do a lot of good to the currently rather bland (in results, not in mechanics) crafting system.

I think that the earlier mentioned Hero Recognition and Diversification is a great interpretation of the things I like most about Guild Wars 2, therefore I would definitely go with that! :-)

Though I’ll still waffle a bit on my favourite bits of this game, in the hope that it’ll be helpful in some way:

Fashion and customization:
Having more choice for dress up and personalizing characters would be awesome. I love coming up with new character ideas. So this includes more armour variety (especially for medium), town clothes, currently unobtainable sets (such as the PvP-only tribal set or shaman NPC animal hoods). Also, a better way to store them such as in a skin locker! Also I’d love to see a way to unlock the clothing and armour that’s already in the game but not yet for players to wear.

Lore and world:
Anything that ties our characters to the world or choices we made. For example the aforementioned Order missions would be awesome, or different factions we could support to unlock rewards. Rewards could tie in to customization again, armour, weapons, titles, unveiled mysteries, decorations for your home instance .. Perhaps an Elonian hairstyle for Order of Whispers, or a Raven Headdress for earning favour with the Norn Raven Spirit. Or an eyepatch, for supporting corsairs. Unlocking is good!

Skills and customization:
I’d love to see new skills, weapons, traits, everything. Perhaps also customizing the weapons we already have. For example, three different skills to choose from for your “number two” attack with a sword. The skills would be of similar power, but different, so people could diversify their builds with the existing weapons.

As a final note, I think your art design is absolutely amazing in every aspect of the game, so whatever you will do, seeing more of that is always a treat to me. ^^

My Norn ranger, I loooove the background with the Kodan ships.