Guild Wars 2

BrotherBelial.3094:

As other said, it was a nightmare to balance, and there where a lot of skills that where close to doing the same thing as another’s with in the same profession. Then you have the hand full of skills that where useful. If you think back most builds had the same 3-4 core skills in any given build. As much as I love GW1, it suffers the same problems as GW2

That is only partially true. The cookie cutter builds that were considered best probably did, but as much as people could make total fail builds, you could actually make good builds with a variety of skills and it wasn’t linked to your weapon set. It certainly wasn’t a perfect game but it had a lot of good things in it that were just completely ignored for GW2 and that’s the part I never really got. It’s like the new team was jealous of the old team and didn’t want to give em credit, so they stripped out all the old for the sake of stripping it out. A sort of misplaced professional pride.

GW2 shouldn’t have been a copy of GW1, but it could’ve been more of a sequel and it certainly never felt like a sequel to the original game.

Obtena.7952:

I never understand the calls to make one game more like another … Just go play the other game. No game can satisfy every player in every aspect, so we need a more compelling reason to have change than just ‘oh, I think this is the better way’.

You miss historical context. There are many games with multiple installments. Usually single player games. Take Mass Effect for example. There are 3 parts. Trust me. If part 2 and 3 had virtually nothing to do with the predecessors people would get upset.

When GW1 was running and ArenaNet started coming with the idea of a Guild Wars 2, the context was that GW1 had been much more successful than expected and they wanted to start over on a new basis because a lot of the stuff they wanted to do weren’t possible in how GW1 was set up and because they felt that with the expansions the players were too spread out in the game.

Mind you, the people who were then the development team didn’t make the GW2 as it was released. Over the development the developers were kicked out or left (I don’t know which) and in any rate the team was completely replaced and the game went into completely different directions than was originally planned.

The big problem here is that they kept the GW name even though it has nothing to do with the original game except some names. It’s a sequel that is the furthest away from it’s original of any game I’ve played. Of course ArenaNet kept up their usual marketing rhetoric and kept promising existing players it would be great.

But you take a movie that is rated 16+ for example and then make the sequel a 6+ movie then of course there will be rage about it, but this is part of the difference between GW1 and GW2 as well. GW1 was much darker and felt more mature. When GW2 came out it was a kid’s program. If you don’t understand that that can be disappointing, that’s on you. In that sense I am happy with HoT because at least it has lost that childish tone and gotten a bit more serious which fits the content of the story. That’s just one example.

ArenaNet shouldn’t have kept the name Guild Wars in my view or at least be honest about it being nothing like the original. But that would’ve hurt initial box sales. I get it, but it’s not very honest from where I’m sitting.

So really, I get that people can love GW2 and also that some people love both GW1 and GW2. Or just GW1 and not GW2. But nobody can really maintain that GW2 is a proper sequel to GW1. The games are too far apart for that. It’s like night and day.

And if you were there during GW1’s high times and remember how the developers introduced the idea of making a GW2, I don’t think anyone can honestly say that they expected the GW2 that did come out.

I think that some Star Wars fans might relate to this when Episode I came out, but as much as the hate against that it was still Star Wars. It was recognizable. GW2 was not recognizable for GW1 fans. Again, it doesn’t mean all GW1 fans hate GW2. I know for a fact that’s not true, but I do believe that they will also admit that GW2 is not even remotely similar to GW1.

For me, I stopped playing quickly. Tried again a year later, got bored again within a month and left. Now two years after that, I am enjoying the game more than before. I don’t see it as Guild Wars but it is what it is. But even though I enjoy playing it casually at the moment, I do not think GW2 is anywhere near good enough to make it my main game to play. For that the larger game doesn’t appeal to me still. I just like to bum around in maps and have the main masteries and will get some more elite specs completed. That’s about the extent of it.

Balkarrie Legacy.9175:

Nothing like taking a brilliant game and completely binning some of the best aspects of it for the sake of dumbing down for the console generation eh

Well this is a big part in the reason why I bought the game, started playing it and dropped in within a couple of months. GW2 has nothing in common with GW1 except the name. It was an automatic break of promise to those who were along for the ride from the first announcement of GW2.

People can like both GW1 and GW2, but nobody can maintain that the two games have much in common at all if anything. Just the cosmetics they are bringing back in. And because the systems are so different, I don’t expect them to bring back GW1 style skill choice in this game.

I can reminisce and complain forever that GW2 isn’t like GW1 at all and that they didn’t deliver on their earlier promises and representations. But that’s all water under the bridge now. I do play GW2 now casually and spent some money on it gladly, but I’ll never be into it as I was with GW1. Such is the reality for me and life does go on.

Balkarrie Legacy.9175:

Select which skills you want to use with any weapon, construct your own build from all the so called skills available ……let me know when you can

I would like that but I don’t think it will happen. It’s not as easy as it may sound in the end.

Vayne.8563:

Okay, guilty secret time.

I loved using skill stealing in the first mission in Nightfall in hard mode. The guys only had one skill. If you stole it, they had no skills at all, and didn’t attack. I found it funny. lol

hahhaha, that’s pretty hilarious actually

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

EULA:

10. SERVICE AND AVAILABILITY

You acknowledge that ArenaNet may in its reasonable discretion provide subsequent versions, enhancements, modifications, upgrades or patches related to any part of the Service.

Well you actually agreed to the game being changed…. and you did so on accepting teh EULA at 1st install.

And what is reasonable I wonder? That’s probably a rather flexible definition depending on who you speak to.

Linken.6345:

It’s ok though, I don’t need ascended gear, but I was interested in what you called easy to do.

Then do world bosses like tripple trubble and teqatil for a chance at a drop.
[/quote]

As I said, I don’t need it, but for argument’s sake…how many times would you have to kill either of those bosses on a sort of average from your experience before you could expect an ascended item drop that you could use for that specific character?

You know, it’s not just pants. I have trouble finding proper dresses for my Mesmer and Necromancer. The ones that do exist are either too short, too weird or too bulky.

I don’t mind sexy but a bit of elegance perhaps?

Derdhal.6908:

Gehenna.3625:

Derdhal.6908:

Ascended are not overpowered. They are as overpowered as exotic in comparison with rare, for example. And, nowadays, you can get a full ascended equipment with no great trouble or effort.

As a player who never got any ascended gear except some trinkets like rings and amulets, I would be interested to know how one would acquire a full set of ascended equipment, mainly armour and weapons, “with no great trouble or effort”.

You see when I got to the wiki it says things like this "Ascended armor is crafted using ascended materials and is a complex process. "

That doesn’t sounds like it’s as easy as you suggest.

It’a a matter of time, not effort or trouble. Just play. You’ll get ascended gear and/or mats to craft it just playing. I assume you don’t consider “play” an effort.

Playing your way perhaps but though I have some of the materials I certainly don’t just pick all of that up while playing. And well the big issue for me really is the crafting system. I think it’s a crap system and I don’t like how it’s set up so it will be an effort for me to bring multiple crafting professions to max.

You should understand that not everybody plays the same way and if you have to do a bunch of repetitive stuff that you don’t like to begin with, then yes it is troublesome and becomes an effort. My brain won’t allow me to do things that are too repetitive because it bores the crap out of me.

It’s ok though, I don’t need ascended gear, but I was interested in what you called easy to do. Clearly it’s only easy if you play the way you do, which I don’t. I couldn’t do that to myself, but I’m glad it’s easy for you.

Vayne.8563:

Even the skills in Guild Wars 1 were more complex and more conditional over all. They related to each other. Do we have skills in this game that mimic other skills, or steal people’s skills and add them to your bar?

Skills in Guild Wars 1 tended to be more conditional and more dependent on other skills more often. One skill I remember required both a condition and a hex to be active on a player before it would proc properly.

No, there were a handful of peculiar skills but look it up…the vast majority of skills were straightforward and the really tricky ones you could ignore anyway. I mean who seriously used skill stealing?

Sure the Mesmer was a bit more tricky but in the end it is in GW2 as well just for different reasons.

And GW2 has plenty of conditional stuff that only happens on condition of something else, like doing more damage to targets that suffer from condition x or whatever.

Just a nice comparison for ya.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_skills
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_skills

I mean really. That’s GW1 after 3 expansions and GW2 after 1 expansion.

Not much weird going on in the GW1 list except a lot of skills in 1 list. GW2 has them grouped but there are still tons of skills and you do have to make choices in a different way.

You see a lot of conditional stuff in the GW1 Necro? And what about the GW2 Necro?

The GW2 skills can have up to 3 or 4 things going on at the same time. And some of the conditional stuff is actually put into the skill trees so it’s still there.

I can understand that people are not as smart as I like to assume but then they are also not getting the most out of their builds in GW2 just as GW1.

I think that the reason that GW2 is more accessible has to do with other things. Things like level sync and not having to team up to do content together for most of the game and getting lots of npcs in story missions.

No, the GW2 combat system is much more complex than you give it credit but they’ve made the game so that in general people don’t really notice if they have a bad build because you generally zerg things or just take longer to kill regular mobs.

HoT may have been too much for many because there you notice the differences more because aside from the meta there’s not a lot going on there usually, so you’re left to yourself or very small groups more often. People are faced with their builds then more than in the regular leveling zones I bet.

Vayne.8563:

I think you’re remembering wrong here. You get your second profession in pre-searing ascalon. You can literally have two professions in your first hour of playing the game. You might think every one can maintain that pace, I assure you that is not the case.

Apparently not. Now you’re right that you get to pick a second profession early on and that does by itself add a level of complexity, but really, you don’t have many skills to choose from.

You might be right about the pace though. There may be some semantic issues going on as well. When I speak of complexity I look at the levels and interactions of the combat system itself. I get the feeling that isn’t quite how you approach it. You are clearly looking at different things that I would not class as complexity but might be hard for people to follow nonetheless.

Vayne.8563:

It’s easy to tell you’re a smart guy. Like a lot of smart people, you assume most people are able to do what you do, or some facsimile of it. I assure you that’s not the case.

Hmm. I have no counter argument to that.

Derdhal.6908:

Ascended are not overpowered. They are as overpowered as exotic in comparison with rare, for example. And, nowadays, you can get a full ascended equipment with no great trouble or effort.

As a player who never got any ascended gear except some trinkets like rings and amulets, I would be interested to know how one would acquire a full set of ascended equipment, mainly armour and weapons, “with no great trouble or effort”.

You see when I got to the wiki it says things like this "Ascended armor is crafted using ascended materials and is a complex process. "

That doesn’t sounds like it’s as easy as you suggest.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has builds but entry level builds are the weapon you choose. Five of your skills are determined by weapons and those weapon skills are determined by devs. Yes, we make our own builds but anyone who picks up any weapon is using dev assigned skills.

How many skills does a new player start with on their first character? Zero, if I remember right and you have to kill some mobs with basic weapon attacks to gain your first skill. And then you gain others, Until finally your bar is full. Then you get a secondary class. How many of those skills do you start with? Hundreds or do you have to unlock them first?

Honestly. It’s preposterous to call that complex.

I do think a lot of people didn’t get how it works because it was very different from what they were used to. I think back then the PC game world was more separate from the console gamers.

Nowadays people are more used to this type of set up, but GW2 is still very strange compared to other MMOs with a limited skill bar and skills linked to weapons. To me the link between skills and weapons was one of the biggest turn offs. It still would be if I wanted to play this game less casually as I do.

Vayne.8563:

Yes, I think WoW was a lot easier than Guild Wars 1. Not a little, a lot. Getting into WoW at the entry level was easier. I’ve done them both and I found WoW to be braindead easy and I left WoW for the original Guild Wars because of that.

Well I never played WoW myself but I wonder if more people who played both games agree with you. I find it surprising but I can’t agree nor disagree on this point as a consequence.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 gives you 8 slots, and that’s it. The second you get 9 skills, you’re leaving something off that bar. You get your second profession pretty fast, so you can get 9 skills pretty fast. Which do you leave off? Which do you keep?

This is complex to you is it? Choosing between two skills once you get number 9? There are always skills you like better or not. And GW2 makes you choose between skills as well or weapon skills. How often do we not see questions in GW2 about “which weapon is best for my class”? And then we haven’t even touched skill trees.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re a gamer, if you’re already an MMO player, it’s different. But a lot of people, who come to MMOs for the first time, they’re really lost.

Surely you’ve seen those posts.

I’ve seen those posts in all MMOs I’ve played. This is a non-argument to me as such. And in the 6-7 years I played GW1 I’ve heard people ask which build was best and I’ve heard people complain that there were no skill trees etc. But I do not remember people generally complaining that it was too hard. That just hasn’t been my experience in all that time.

Well, perhaps it’s because I never play on US servers

Vayne.8563:

I know a lot of people who left Guild War 1, because they wanted to log in an just start killing stuff. Guild Wars 1 is more of a strategy game. Guild Wars 2 has more of an arcade element. It appeals to a different group of people.

I will agree that GW1 had more strategy to it, but I know a lot of people who enjoyed GW1’s style. Shall we fight over the definition of what “a lot of people” means and who has the best anecdotal evidence?

The element that does make sense here is the Arcade comment. GW1 builds up a bit more slowly and it was a discovery of the world and your class(es). GW2 is more fast paced, though at the same time killing mobs take more time. An interesting combination.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re used to just going into a game and killing stuff, or even if you’re used to something like WoW, Guild Wars 1 was a step up in complexity.

I’m surprised at this. You answer my question with a yes then. I’ll say that you are the first person that I know of that considers GW1 more complex than WoW. I wonder how other people who played both those games feel about that.

Vayne.8563:

Not everyone wants to spend time figuring out builds.

That’s just a lame excuse sorry. GW2 has builds. There is the choice of 2 sets of weapons and the second half of the skill bar with skill trees behind it. You need to figure those things out as well. It’s complete and utter bull to say that GW2 has no builds in it. I referred to the guides for GW2 classes which are very lengthy.

And there were plenty of sites that told you which builds where out there so you didn’t have to figure them out yourself. People even had files you could copy into your builds folder. So to say GW1 was tricky because it had builds is nonsense, all games have builds GW2 included. Not to mention heroes. You could just give them the builds that other people figured out and they play the game for you mostly.

The one thing that holds water in what you say is that GW2 is more fast paced overall. Right into the action as you say. GW1 built up more slowly but it’s not more complex.

GW1:
Level to 20. Gather hundreds of skills. Websites tell you which builds are most powerful. Copy/Paste file or do it yourself and use 8 skills as described. Save a few different builds from Copy/Paste for different content types.

GW2: Level to 80. Gather hundreds of skill points. Websites tell you which builds are best but they are very lengthy guides. Get two weapons sets or more depending on what you do in game. Use 15 skills while clicking back and forth with longer cooldowns + any F1-F4 skills you may have as a class and make sure the skill trees are set correctly and that you know what the effects are you so can actually have the benefits of them.

Gear was also easier to get in GW1.

Seriously, do you really want to contend that GW1 was more complex? Sure you have lots of skills to choose from but the builds are so easy to obtain and to load and to use. GW2 factually has more complexity because of the skill trees and synergies between various aspects of your build and a lot more skills than just the 8 slots GW1 had.

GW2 more fast paced? Yes. Less complex? Hell no.

Vayne.8563:

I know Guild Wars 1 was diffficult because I ran a guild there for five years and ran a guild here for four.

Here you put on a weapon, 5 skills. The skills that matter most. You’re forced to take both a healing and elite skill. A lot of guys in GW 1 would have benefited from a healing skill, but didn’t take one because they wanted more DPS and figured the cleric would keep them alive.

The fact is, there you had 8 slots to fill from hundreds of choices, here you have 1 slot to fill from like three choices, three slots to fill from dozens. Your elite here is one choice out of three.

And Guild Wars 1 had a second profession. You’d effectively double the amount of skills to choose from.

Given eight slots with no real direction, this game is much much easier to build…there’s probably a fair number of players here who’ve been to the trait screen once and never looked again. But at least they have usable skills.

Honestly, when you start GW1 as a new player you don’t get all those skills right away. You have to unlock them as you go along. It’s not till later that all those skills come along and by then your brain should’ve sparked once or twice and the builds are easier to make than reading through a guide for a GW2 class.

But I think I get your point just in a different way. I don’t think it’s an inability but an unwillingness to learn that we face in today’s world. The media have all but convinced people that they don’t need to think for themselves and that there’s always a guiding hand to tell them what to do and where to go.

You may have experienced this in your guild already back then but it baffles me to think that people think GW1 to be difficult. I still don’t believe that, so for me it’s just that when you give people freedom, they’ve forgotten how to make choices for themselves.

That’s actually really saddening when I think about it.

Baldrick.8967:

Actually the biggest disappointment for me at launch and still, is the lack of ability to save/share builds using templates.
I would swap builds several times in a session with a few clicks- no need for endless pieces of paper.
Not having that ability in GW2 feels like trying to play a class with one arm chopped off.
Many times do I think of switching my character build around but then I think of all the hassle of writing everything down and not losing it so i can switch back later on and end up just not bothering. It kills build diversity.
As for skill levels in GW2 compared to GW1, you’re comparing two different games, as GW1 was primarily a pvp game where skill and build really mattered whereas gw2 is more about casuals, pve and dumbed down pvp (mostly).

GW1 a pvp game primarily? Weird cause although I did enjoy some of the pvp in GW1, I was mostly doing pve in there.

Vayne.8563:

Well yes and no. This has to do with barrier of entry. Not everyone likes chess but that doesn’t mean it’s not a great game. However, chess also has a barrier to entry. It requires thought and not everyone wants to think while playing games, and therein lies the problem.

You can’t make everyone like a game, but you can remove barriers to entry. To put it another way…

It still goes both ways but the more I think about it, the more I’m actually trying to wonder what was so difficult about GW1 compared to GW2. Look at the class guides for GW2, which are rather lengthy. The GW1 build were never that complex.

GW1 started in pre-searing and then you leveled on. Gearing was very straightforward because all max level gear had the same stat level. It was all the best gear and the rest was about cosmetics. And only later when things came in like DOA did you need to do infusions…I mean gain lightbringer levels to get resistances, but it was a more straightforward thing to do to get the minimum level required. No really, I am not sure what made GW1 so unaccessible in your view. GW2 has been far more confusing to me than GW1 ever was.

Vayne.8563:

The average person has an average IQ. They also have an average amount of time to devote to gaming. Outliers with have almost no time to devote or they’ll have all the time in the world, like me, but most people will be somewhere in between.

You can’t make a game for the outliers and expect it to go mainstream because there are less outliers than there are people within the norm.

Now here’s the thing. WoW dumbed things down and GW1 compared to EQ was also dumbed down and came out not long after WoW I believe. WoW blew everything out of the water. No game has been so successful in the MMO genre and it was totally mainstream. Are you seriously saying that GW1 was much harder than WoW, because that’s the correct comparison of the time.

You make a dangerous statement about IQ but it is true, however, most people had average IQs when WoW came out as well. I don’t see how that is different today then it was then.

Vayne.8563:

So you make the game harder to enter into by making builds that require thought and or research and you lose a percentage of players. The harder you make it to get into the more percentage of players you use. This is called hedging your bets.

I lost interest in GW2 because leveling was endless and being level 80 was pointless. It’s better now but I think GW1 was niche mostly because it didn’t have all the amenities of a regular MMO like 3D maps, crafting and a persistent world. I really don’t think it was niche because of the combat system.

Vayne.8563:

There’s a reason WoW is far easier than EQ was and it’s also far more popular than EQ was, as far as player numbers go anyway. It’s because WOW “dumbed down” the genre and allowed more people access.

Well again are you saying GW1 was so much harder than WoW and didn’t dumb down from EQ? Because I don’t agree and that basically debunks your point.

Another question. Is GW2 dumbed down from WoW?

Vayne.8563:

In recent years, due to the proliferation of MMOs and even free to play MMOs, it’s been harder and harder to retain players for ALL MMOs including WoW. Even big MMOs struggle for market share.

So it makes sense to have a bigger pool of people to fish in, to try to get them to stay with the game. Raise the bar too high as far as skill, or time commitment or the knowledge you need, or the amount of research you need to do, or even the IQ needed to play the game and you cut out more people as that bar gets higher.

Yeah and this actually sums up why the MMO genre is struggling and nobody even gets close to the success of WoW. It’s these cowardly business tactics that perpetuate this. You simply cannot open a new MMO with so much less than existing MMOs in it. With less I mean endgame, I mean PvP options, I mean guild functionalities and storage facilities etc. These game companies shoot themselves in the foot thinking that they can start at base like games did in the past and repeat a similar success if they just get that one edge. That’s bull. A lot of players in MMOs have played MMOs before and are used to certain amenities. You can’t just say, oh we may implement that later. You mentioned retention, well the biggest loss of players is generally within the first 3 months after release because of advertising that facilitates ridiculous expectations and not having a robust enough start with in game functionalities for guilds etc. GW2 had that problem just like all other MMOs pretty much.

Vayne.8563:

Everyone said Guild Wars 1 PvP was amazing, but a dev also said there are more people playing PvP in Guild Wars 2 right now than there ever were in Guild Wars 1.

That doesn’t make Guild Wars 2 PvP better, but I strongly suspect it makes it more accessible.

Well, what did he mean? If GW2 has more players overall than GW1 obviously had less players doing PvP. If it has more relatively speaking then we are on to something. But then what did he consider PvP in his statement? Did he include the factions maps like Jade Quarry on the one hand and WvW on the other hand? Sorry but that statement by itself doesn’t tell me anything without proper context.

Neurion.4086:

ability to do their job efficiently and timely.

You sound like my boss…is this a game or a job we’re talking about here?

Vayne.8563:

I’m guessing that for every person who loved, this, there was someone else sitting there not able to come to terms with the last build they made. Or not being able to figure out how to make a build at all.

It was good for people who loved that game like me. It was bad for getting more people to love that game. I think the game remained niche because of the number of people who bought it, tried it, and walked away without really understanding what was going on.

I think much the same can be said of GW2. Do you not think that for every person who likes the game there is at least one who doesn’t or walked away?

GW2 is a game that is sort of easy to play and get into but by making it so easy it gets boring. That’s the downside of the GW2 approach…and before you say that “boring” is a matter of opinion, ask yourself why there are level skip items in the game. Make a character instantly level 20, then level 30, now a level 40 token is on the way with the new birthday stuff, but the level cap hasn’t been increased, has it? When you do your dailies you get more more level tokens.

Yes GW2 is definitely easier to get into but I don’t necessarily agree that this is better for the game. If your only measurement is that more people played GW2 than GW1, well, that could be true. However, that’s a very shallow measuring stick. I think GW1 is still the better game of the two. That’s my personal opinion but I am not of the persuasion that a bigger game is better simply because it’s well…bigger.

Vayne.8563:

I’m relatively sure that almost every single MMO in existence, including WoW, has peaks and troughs based on things like sales, items in gem stores, and of course, bad management decisions.

That is the truth of it really. One bad or lesser quarter doesn’t mean anything by itself. I saw the quarterly results but I never quite got the panic of some people. NcSoft themselves certainly weren’t too fussed about it.

The most interesting thing to me really was how well Lineage 1 is still doing. That game is pretty ancient by now but still blows everything else they make out of the water. That’s something I find interesting to think about.

Vayne.8563:

Well I was into making my own builds and I still think the Guild Wars 2 system is better for most people. The problem is, too many people came into Guild Wars 1, built crappy characters, and left because they didn’t know what was going on. And that’s not good for the game.

One of the biggest things any MMORPG can do for the game and its players is to remove barriers to entry.

Guild Wars 1 was a niche game. Guild Wars 2 is less of a niche game, partly because barriers to playing the game have been removed.

I enjoyed making builds, but I don’t think it was great for the game over all, even though I personally enjoyed it.

In Guild Wars 2, which skills linked to weapons, at least everyone has a chance to play the game, even if they don’t focus on builds.

This has nothing to do with freedom. It has everything to do with success.

GW1 was a niche game but it was infinitely more successful than ArenaNet dared believe. They said so themselves, not with those words, but they were amazed at their own unexpected success.

Considering the cost of GW2, which was a much more ambitious game to make for sure, I really don’t know if GW2 really was a better deal for ArenaNet. I don’t dare make such an assumption. I think more people have played GW2 but I have no idea how successful in terms of actual profit the current game has been for them.

The expansions in GW1 did very well for them and at the time they wanted to make a more ambitious game fueled by their success at the time. Players were requesting more things to be put into GW1 and the game wasn’t prepared for that. So a lot of people were excited about the idea of GW2. Of course during the development the team completely got replaced and GW2 has just about nothing to do with GW1 other than the name and that was both a good and a bad thing I suppose.

A lot of people left, myself included because the game had nothing to do with GW1, but we do see more and more GW1 stuff coming into the game with lore and gear. One could ask the question why.

But where GW2 went for easy access, it also has down sides. When things become too easy they also become boring. Making mobs more tedious to kill particularly on your own, isn’t about challenge but overcoming annoyance. The original dungeons are filled with bosses that you just need to dodge out of 50 circles or die and all in all it was more about dodging than your actual skill with a class.

And the moment it’s more about skill and I will assume that fractals and the raid require more skillful play and specific choices in weapons, skills, equipment, etc. that’s where you find that it’s not actually that simple at all and there GW1 was actually easier to figure out. Also in GW1 I could pick which skills I had and there were no restrictions because of weapon choice or which slot I put it in other than one elite skill max. So I miss that freedom also.

That doesn’t mean I think bringing that into GW2 is a good idea. The game isn’t meant for that but I think the level of skill of the average MMO player has gone down over the years and it just makes games lacking if you want a bit more out of it. You could argue then that endgame would be great then because it requires more skill but at the same time one raid and infinite fractal levels like a game like tetris has, just doesn’t sound inviting to me. That’s why I stay casual here but played full on in GW1. Until my account got hacked. That’s what killed GW1 for me and nothing else. Since their recovery tool came after that and has gone again, well, it gives me no confidence so I dare not go back. Otherwise I would. I still think the gameplay as such is better.

So is higher numbers by itself the best thing for a game? Sure you need income and regular income. I just wish it wouldn’t be at the cost of what makes games interesting to me. For now I’m happy to glide around a level some toons. Then it’s back to other toons in other games. But at least I can enjoy the leveling zones for a while and that’s an improvement.

I will admit that GW2 also had a very childish tone for me and it’s gotten less it seems. That’s probably also part of the reason I can enjoy playing for a bit. I just don’t ever see it be my main game. For that the long term view in this game is still not interesting enough for me.

But if it’s good enough for a lot of other players, I’m sure I’ll be coming by from time to time just to hang out and that’s ok too.

The sale on HoT brought me back and I spent some cash in the cash shop as well. But now that I’ve done that there’s little reason for me to spend more unless they bring out a couple of gliders I might like.

I think GW2 has improved a lot since the start but I don’t think it has what it takes to keep me playing long term. End game is clearly more grindy than other games I play and things like crafting aren’t really inviting to me in this game. I find it more annoying than interesting. So if you stay away from fractals, the new raid and crafting, well, there’s only so much enjoyment from the leveling zones and recurring events that I can get. It’s fun but repetitive so I expect to play the game casually and from time to time only. That’s ok for me since it’s a b2p game and I wasn’t looking for an MMO to play regularly but I’m not convinced that’s the sort of thing that ArenaNet likes to have happen. For me it’s a single player game that happens to have other people around as well.

But as I do like it enough to play from time to time I do hope that the game will do well but it wouldn’t be a big deal to me either if it didn’t.

Icethorn.6570:

Belinda’s Greatsword looks like a perfect weapon to buy for an ninja style assassin.

However the two classes which are most like assassins can’t use the Greatsword.

Please give Thieves and Revenants the ability to wield a Greatsword so we can make an assassin style ninja look.

Why not make daggers and swords with that skin?

One of the things I don’t like in GW2 is the overlap between classes when it comes to weapon proficiencies. Too many classes already can use greatswords. It just gets boring after a while. Keep this up and we can call this game Greatsword Wars.

Considering the work and time it takes to create these legendaries I fully expect to be disappointed at the end of that road. That’s why I never bothered. I’m the type of person that looks at input vs output and the balance is just way off.

If there actually was a legendary skin that I really liked I’d still feel the same though. I remember playing Aion and the Miragent Armour set there. Never bothered to get that either.

I have to say, on the one hand it is impressive to see what people will put themselves through to get a skin in a computer game. Don’t get me wrong, I care about cosmetics as well, but again…input vs output. Just not worth the trouble to me.

The dilemma is this though. If there was a skin I really really really wanted, I’d prefer to buy it with gold instead of going through all the nonsense it takes to make one. But if I bought it with gold…it just doesn’t feel like a legendary item anymore.

No, I’ll just be grateful that there are exotic skins that I like better. I will admit that part of the issue is that I really don’t like the crafting system much and that pretty much shuts the door on legendaries and ascended stuff, but I don’t need any of that for my playing style at least.

I’m also of the Guardian Dragonhunter persuasion. I would normally prefer the Necromancer as I did in GW1 but the Guardian Dragonhunter is just so much better in the PvE zones, especially HoT.

RyuDragnier.9476:

From what I heard, they stopped it because it was a pain to keep balanced, and most (if not all) of the original GW1 team are no longer at ANET.

Not sure what you mean. Dual classes is what was a pain for them to balance they said, but the ability to save builds was never an issue.

And you know what. They also said that one problem was that with the expansions in GW1 people were getting to spread out. So their solution for that was to start with more zones in GW2 than GW1 ever had.

The new teams have made some odd decisions before, so who knows what else is possible.

MFoy.3284:

Having some major experience with this kinda stuff I’d have to give Anet high marks for handling it with highly professional chops. Also, I’d give special shout out to the dozens of support folks who had to work the problem. Much applause to you all!

To the players who are QQing like a big dog… let’s put this into perspective

Molehills are small, but people trip over them all the time

It sucked but these things do happen. It’s all part of the experience, whether you like it or not. So best to just get over it and carry on.

Alexgoll.6378:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Pro Tip: If you’ve been sitting at the log-in screen, you may continue to get the “Can’t log in” message even though the game is accessible. Close the game completely and start over. Success!
See you in the game!

After rollback game dont work at all

Yeah, I’m getting that same error right now. I can log into the game but cannot get past the character selection screen

Edit: It finally worked. Yep, all the transactions I did I have to redo and the progress I made last night is all gone.

What can I say…roll backs suck, that’s about it.

I really don’t think there is enough reason to call GW2 p2w. Sure you can buy legendary weapons with gold and there are some elements definitely there, but there is nothing really going on that makes a noticeable difference.

What I do think is that GW2 is too gold-centric, but that’s an entirely different topic.

black wings
white wings
bat wings

I see a pattern here…

Vayne.8563:

No idea. But I don’t feel like HoT was partcularly light in content anyway, and with the living story coming back, and the new zone, it seems a lot of people are really digging it.

The real issue with HoT was the list price. If it had retailed for $30 there wouldn’t have been nearly the resistance to it.

With or without the legendaries.

I think your point is valid. I simply waited till it was on sale to try it out. I wouldn’t have waited this long if it had been 30 bucks at the start.

Personally I don’t care about the legendary weapons since, though intricate, I actually don’t like the look of a single one of them. I am fine with that because it saves me a lot of trouble or annoyance.

It is natural that after a few years of playing a game there is a moment where a person needs to take a break. No content will save you from that especially if you put in a lot of hours in general in the game.

It seems though that ArenaNet has a tendency to want to overcomplicate a lot of things. I personally like Auric Basin and Verdant Brink are great maps, but the other HoT maps not so much. They are more annoying than interesting and I know that people will have different tastes but I also have the feeling a fair amount of players feel the same way about some of these maps. That means that these new maps have not enticed perhaps as many players to hang out there as it should’ve.

It was very good to get that explanation about the LFG tool. It works as you explained, but it is a bit sad to me that you have to wait till certain fixed times to group up to do these meta’s. On the one hand I get it, on the other hand I don’t.

I just wonder if these sort of things couldn’t have been done a bit simpler and easier, but that’s just me.

I think there is a lot of bias towards tanking because of what some games have done with it and some personal interpretations that I cannot agree with.

In basis when you go back to fantasy gaming like Dungeons and Dragons (no I don’t mean online, I mean the game with the books that came out before we had computers), the idea was that you went out as a group of adventurers ready to face battles with a variety of enemies and gaining loot to improve your character with better gear etc.

Already back then (yes I am that old) there were different classes with different roles. Why? Because it naturally made sense to offer people different roles. Some people liked to be in the thick of it and others preferred to stay at range or be the healer keeping people alive. But to make sure that different classes had a reason to be they were defined more specifically. So a wizard or magic user was the typical glass cannon with fire power but low hit points and armour values and would need to build up spells to get more survivability, but that would be at the cost of offensive spells. And guess what…when there was a group of Orcs that you ran into (or whichever enemy) then you would naturally put the guys in big armour on the front. To me, that’s the origin in short of tanking and there’s nothing strange about the whole concept of putting big armour on the front.

Of course computer games can have a very simplistic view on that but it did already make a clear link between the tank and healer so that made it team work. Now in some games the tank had very little to do but just stand there and take the damage. But in all fairness, the DPS would just stand there and DPS their fingers into oblivion just to reach some made up number in DPS to be the enrage timers. But it’s not unrealistic or bad design to have tank classes. How they are treated in an individual game could be very different and I do agree there are a lot of games that implemented the role poorly.

Also, MMOs generally have a good amount of tanks, but they don’t often go into the public LFG tools but stay in their guilds. Why? Because for example a lot of DPS are too lazy to learn to be a proper DPS which isn’t just about doing damage but also to avoid unnecessary damage and use utility skills like interrupts and well in general the average player isn’t ready for more challenging content, but still wants the rewards that come from it. They are often jealous of people who do put in effort and gain rewards that they also want without putting in the effort.

And there is the problem in that system. A lot of players are not actually good team players and can’t be bothered to learn their classes. By itself that’s fine but they feel they should be rewarded for showing up rather than being a skillful player. So the trinity system suffers greatly from this, simply because people are not willing to put into the effort. And you don’t even need to be the best but you do have to put in some effort. How else can it be challenging content?

To me that’s the biggest problem for any MMO is that there are a lot of players who feel entitled to rewards without putting in any effort. They feel they should get rewarded simply because they show up and this is the bane of group content.

GW2 did a lot I think the accommodate players. The way the implemented events for example I think was a great way to accommodate players. All you have to do is show up and participate and you get rewards. People could consider that fun, but it’s not really group content. It’s not about team work, it’s just a zerg (like WvW for example). But even dungeons were accommodating. Boss mechanics were simplistic and they just have hight hit points and you need to dodge circles and ress your team mates quickly. Actual skillful use of your individual classes was not needed but there was already a bit more teamwork involved.

Raiding is a different story and that’s why we see the typical things that happen in the trinity system come in again. It can’t be stopped unless game designers find a wildly different way to make challenging content. Not like the dungeons which you can beat with dodging and auto attack (I exaggerate a bit but it’s not far off) but actual challenging content where you need certain jobs to be done during boss fights. Because as soon as you need to assign people to do certain things they need to have the abilities to do so and that’s where the roles come in again.

I don’t think that you have to want challenging content, but the truth is that some people do and you can’t simply ignore that as a game developer unless you give alternatives that are interesting enough. I am not saying GW2 should have this trinity, but I am saying that the trinity also has positive sides, just like the GW2 approach also has negative sides to it. People have different preferences. If you don’t like the trinity approach that doesn’t make it bad or bad design, it makes it something that doesn’t work for you. Others do like it.

TL;DR: Role definition like in the trinity approach does have advantages, just like not having those roles. Also both options have disadvantages and for challenging group content role definition in whatever shape is needed. That’s why raid groups are showing the same type of behavior as games with a trinity.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I tried that Guardian DPS build today while working on the first episode of season 3, even with the mace symbol down and perms protection I was melting like butter against magic crazed White Mantle. I’m wondering if I have to replace my gear with Clerics to make it work or if that magic resistance mastery doesn’t kick in until after I progress the story even though I’ve got it on my Reaper?

I can accept a compromise that would help fulfill my protector identity where I can offer up perma protection with a steady stream of heals. Now my big concern is why is my Gaurdian melting like butter in Bloodstone Fen while my Reaper for what ever reason seems immortal?

I actually preferred playing my guardian through the story as it was more powerful than my Necromancer or Mesmer. I use the Dragon hunter specialization and use a bow and greatsword in combination with a bunch of traps. The bow itself doesn’t do a ton of damage but it’s just tactically useful to have a ranged weapon. When I run into some mobs I have to kill I gather them together and use all my aoe’s. The greatsword has 2 aoe abilities and with 3 traps added normal mobs die rather quickly. With tougher mobs, well I either avoid them when I can regardless of which class it is or you have to use the most important skill any class has and that’s dodge.

Just standing still and taking the damage is not really what this game is meant to do. Now, I am not an expert in GW2 classes and this comes from a more casual point of view. I know there are specific builds that work really well in certain ways, but it should come sort of natural from my point of view as well. The reality is that aoe is a great tool in this game and the guardian with traps is just very good at aoe close range from my experience and that’s why it’s become my main character to play instead of my Necromancer, who also has a lot of aoe skills but doesn’t seem to be able to kill as quickly with them as my Guardian.

I’ve seen some of the guides on dulfy.net for example but you need a lot of patience to read them. They’re very thorough but it’s a long read.

Vayne.8563:

That’s looking at things from a mechanics point of view, not an immersion point of view. Those who focus on mechanics can see roles any way they want. But I’ve read a whole lot of fantasy in my life, and there are very few hard and fast roles in fantasy.

Roles are, and have always been limiting. Even something like character classes in games like D&D (pen and paper) were simply game mechanics to maintain power. Magic users in D&D couldn’t use swords in the original game, even though Gandalf did. Why? Because if a magic user could use a sword, there’s be little benefit in becoming a warrior.

Later pen and paper games, like Runequest did away with the need for character classes. They were less contrived.

It’s okay to like tanking. But it’s not “just a role”. It’s a mechanic upon which entire areas of games were based. It was a REQUIRED role. That’s the real issue.

There’s a very big difference between being tanky and being a tank.

To each their own I guess. Everything has limits and where you see bigger limits in assigning roles, I see definition and purpose. And I could be wrong but I’ve seen people discuss raid content in GW2 and there it seems that it may not be tanks or healers but there are favoured classes that people require.

Now we can argue the difference between the game requiring something or players requiring something but the end result is the same. It may not be tanks that are required but there is class elitism going on there from what I can tell. It’s just the nature of the content.

SWTOR has a much better approach to it where all classes that can tank can also dps so you can choose and switch between those roles. Also tanking there is very different from what you described in your example of MMO tanking. Just to indicate that not all MMOs approach the trinity in the same way.

I quite like tanking there actually. Though I am primarily a healer. I quite enjoyed that in GW1 as well. Particularly a protection monk and yeah I miss real healer classes in GW2. That’s probably the main reason group content is unappealing to me in GW2.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I hoped that Guardian would be like a WoW Protection Paladin

This is what he said in another thread.

Stand The Wall.6987:

this is rather embarrassing for anet, but going back to a gw1 district system is hardly a solution. no, actually its not a solution at all

And why would it not be a solution? Perhaps you could elaborate on that, because you give zero reason why this would not be a reason, so I don’t think your opinion is based on anything.

Now, I suspect that to implement this in GW2 might not be so easy, so I am not expecting them to do this, but the GW1 system actually worked much better for me, because it opened instances as needed and you could select which one you wanted. You could even play together with people from other parts of the world. It just felt a lot more stable and solid than what they’ve done in GW2.

Chances are. This game chose not to go for the well known trinity of tank, dps and heal classes. Of course at the time of release the endgame was basically 5 dungeons which were more about your ability to press dodge and ressing your team mates quick enough than any actual skills on your skill bar and the legendary grind for legendary weapons.

Of course ArenaNet will tell you that the whole game is endgame but you don’t need to be level 80 for that so it’s kinda true but also kinda not.

Now the game has a dungeon which uses a set of fractals that it randomizes and then you can do them at ever increasing levels of difficulty, kinda like games like tetris. It’s how GW2 has dealt with not having the trinity.

Now that there is raid content we see something interesting. Certain classes with certain abilities are preferred over others. So although there is no trinity of heal, dps and tank the problem they wanted to avoid is coming, just with different roles. The warrior class can be seen as DPS in other games, meaning there’s too many of them and often get a no because there are already enough of them and they want specific other classes.

I won’t call myself an expert here, this is all based on what I’ve read and heard from other players, but it seems that as soon as the game started having more serious endgame content the same type of issues came into play that trinity games do (like not being accepted in groups because dps slots are filled and waiting an hour to get a tank etc.).

So if you are thinking in terms of tank, heal and dps…yes, this is definitely the wrong game for you. I just play it casually for the same reason. I’ve done the core dungeons but never set foot in fractals or the raid, though I might give the raid a go just for the heck of it, but I can’t really be bothered in this game. It’s just a bit of casual fun for me between other games and for that it suits me just fine.

My guardian is probably my favourite class at the moment because it does rather well as a dragon hunter in the newer HoT zones. For me it’s the class that has a good mix of survivability and great aoe dps to kill things like pocket raptors rather quickly. I would prefer my necromancer to be my favourite but even though it’s still pretty awesome it doesn’t kill nearly as quickly as my guardian and I need that killing speed to keep those zones interesting. I hate running around all the time dodging the enemies because I just get annoyed by the normal mob fights, so my guardian does that much better for me.

But yeh, it seems a bit odd because this game isn’t entirely solo friendly, particularly at the higher level zones but it’s more fun as a solo game because you don’t need to team up for events, except if you want to find a meta as I learned, then the LFG tool is handy, but after doing certain meta’s 10 times, I wonder what’s next. So I don’t plan on playing this game long term, but just from time to time in a casual manner.

pelle ossa.9705:

Aeolus.3615:

Guardian, but i hate the concept of bow and trap.

same, i love guardian, but i don’t like dragonhunter

I love the guardian and the dragon hunter myself. I have more problems with the elite spec of the necromancer.

Harper.4173:

Gehenna.3625:

Harper.4173:

Also – they could use armor concept from GW1 – if only they would – it would sell really well too.

They have already. They brought out one of the GW1 monk armour sets and there is one of the heavy armour sets as well, I forget the name.

Personally I would like to see more of that too.

They did the monk thing for outfits. And out of all the armor from GW1 we’ve only seen a very very tiny part be brought back.

That is correct.

Swagger.1459:

We don’t want to niggle about classification here, it has dragons and magic and gods and whatever…

Then stop niggling about it. I already said I digressed on that topic and if I now say that it still has too much stuff that’s too far off for it to be considered medieval you will want to reply to that anyway, so if you don’t want to niggle, feel free to lead by example.

Because it’s not the point here and we agree on that.

Swagger.1459:

Then op should ask the devs to devote the person power and resources to improve gear creation, not jump on the “too many races” thing because it’s completely pointless… Ask for gw3 to be all human, way to late to have any sort of silly race vs slower gear pace discussion now.

Following the explanation by ArenaNet this is how he feels. I agree it’s pointless and yet we are both here talking about it. So what does that mean then? I guess the topic is interesting enough for people to react but indeed I do not expect any changes by ArenaNet as a consequence of this discussion.

Swagger.1459:

Harper.4173:

Swagger.1459:

Harper.4173:

Watching WP’s recent video about new races really made me crystallize some thoughts that I’ve had for a long time.

Watch it yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oVADcOSTeY

The game is struggling with the production of cosmetic items and one of the main reasons is the fact that it has too many races.
The main culprits here are the Charr – but every race’s particularities have some part in slowing down the process of creating new armor.
This is a problem because armor and cosmetics are the primary driving force that keeps people going in GW2. It’s not gear grild – it’s skin grind – and we’ve got very very little skins.

The game released with a good abundance of skins – but ever since we’ve had too little come into the game either through the gem store or other means.

That aside I also feel the story could have been much more interesting, focused and well written if they didn’t have to write a neutral 5-race story and by doing so distanced themselves quite a lot from the franchise’s original lore and setting.

I don’t hate the non-human races – In fact they could have had just as much story and lore expanding their stories in the game but the only playable race should have been limited to humans – for practical reasons.
Humans are already the most popular race in-game and were so even close after launch.

I’m actually curious how others feel. Do you like the fact that we have 4 other races even if it means we get armor very very very rarely? Do you think it was worth it?

This thread is pretty pointless honestly.

If you want more gear then ask them to hire more staff, or restructure, to work on gear.

This thread is here because I want to discuss these issues. I also want to point out that I feel more races would be a mistake.

your op did not state anything about not creating new races

And before people go crazy – yes I would like more races in my game but I’m also grounded in reality enough to notice Anet is already struggling and would only dig themselves even deeper into kitten they can’t get out of.

new races add replayability for players, add another selling point to expansions, encourage players to buy more character slots and spend money plus in game resources to gear up their characters…

your op purely looks at races from an armor creation standpoint, but you fail to see the business and money and retention aspects of having multiple races. This is not human vs zombies and this is not gw1, this is a medieval fantasy genre game with a diverse group of playable characters for reasons. If you want more armor then ask for more devs and resources to be put toward armor and gear in general, like legendaries, better back items, dyeable high end weapons and back items… Anet is not some dirt poor company that can’t afford to do things, they just choose not to do things in lieu of other things…

Bolded.

This is most certainly not a medieval fantasy game. Too much tech in this game for that, but I digress.

Personally I see armour sets as part of my customisation options, because they also determine the look of my character.

Of course when some people asked ArenaNet why it takes so long to get new armour sets, they did give the example of the issue of having various races and how they need to redesign each one to fit the different races.

So it’s not strange for someone to think that if we hadn’t had multiple race choices that armour sets could be released more frequently. Of course that is taking it out of the context of the entire game set up and that’s what the original poster doesn’t understand.

Harper.4173:

Also – they could use armor concept from GW1 – if only they would – it would sell really well too.

They have already. They brought out one of the GW1 monk armour sets and there is one of the heavy armour sets as well, I forget the name.

Personally I would like to see more of that too.

Harper.4173:

You want the real, hard data? Here’s my suggestion – go in-game – do stuff in the open world and count what race each person is.
I’ve done this a few times over the past months. I’ve also done it in groups. Humans are by far the most common thing you’ll see.

As for what’s going to happen – nothing will – the 5 races are set in stone at the moment – I just hope they don’t make the mistake of adding more and straining their already thing resource management even further.

They have a history of overreaching and instead of delivering some limited stuff of great quality trying to deliver too much stuff and end up having to cut corners on quality.

Thanks for the pointless suggestion but also that data would be anecdotal.

Also I mentioned more than once that I do not expect this data, but that real data is needed to make any real point here and therefore anybody who claims to know what’s going on is per definition guessing.

JediSange.1645:

Dude. This thread is toxic af.

The community in this game is terrible and you should feel ashamed.

So you say there is no anger there. Interesting,

No matter, I do believe we agree that the orginal poster is off the mark.

JediSange.1645:

Second, you are not a game developer. You have no idea what it takes or what balance even means. Unless you’re a top-level fighting game player, Leagues player, or have a formal degree in computer science (specifically with finite state machines) — then your opinion is, frankly, uneducated.

JediSange.1645:

What do you think happens? They don’t push some change and not examine it. They are looking at a lot of things, and I would much rather them keep working on it than take time out of their day to answer some petty forum nonsense.

One could argue, as you similarly did in the upper quote, that a person would need to work for ArenaNet to know what they do or do not do. I hope you understand this made my contradiction sensors tingle to some degree.

JediSange.1645:

The community in this game is terrible and you should feel ashamed.

I suspect that your particular brand of self-righteous anger will probably not improve any of that. Quite the contrary in fact.

And do not forget that even if the vast majority of this community were in fact entitled little wretches, they are still customers and this tends to be significant to companies. That would be a sad reality, but a reality nonetheless.

Shovel Face.4512:

Topic. I just wanna know, we give them great feedback and how to improve but instead they gave us broken DH, nerfed Ele and a 1s CD on stealth skills for Theives (Nobody in the ENTIRE Gw2 community was even complaining or even talking about “hey let’s give thief 1s CD on backstab”) yet they randomly need thief.

1) Anet doesn’t just do things what people ask for. They see what happens in game via metrics for example and if certain classes overperform by too big a margin they will make changes
2) There is no “us”. The community is always divided and has different opinions on everything. You will never see anything happen that everybody either agrees or disagrees with.

Are there things broken in this game? Yes. There are things broken in all games. Just because they have not been able to fix bugs doesn’t mean they don’t listen. I am pretty sure that if you put up a poll asking people what they see as the 3 most urgent bugs that need to be fixed in GW2, you will find that you’ll get a lot of different answers and half the stuff people mention won’t be bugs but things they simply don’t like.

They may not have done what you wanted but that doesn’t mean there is a greater “us”. This is a fictional concept only.

Griffin.5379:

Of course all data is not accurate, can’t be, could only be if they release another new article like that, but they give us trends, and if all the sources say more or less the same as the only (old) official source:

No they don’t give us trends. You really don’t seem to get how this works. If you have a sample size that is big enough to be relevant, like the reddit one, then if you make multiple measurements the same way over time with the same group of people, then you can see trends.

Getting some random things together from 3 different sources that are questionable at best only make you feel better because it fits your belief and so I wouldn’t call that data.

And it still doesn’t even go into time played element because even if you made a variety of characters of different races, people generally do not give all their characters equal play time. So what if I made a charr and leveled it to 80 but then rarely play it anymore because I prefer my asura or human? This is why I am not so much interested in the amount of characters made of each race but how much time they are actually being played. It’s where people spend their time that matters in my view because apparently that’s what they enjoy the most for whichever reason. The reason why would be the next thing to investigate.

But really, just leave the anecdotal statistics alone. It only detracts from the conversation.

We have a game that has multiple races in it that can be played. That is a fact and it will not change because someone doesn’t like it. This does have consequences of course for the resource allotment in the development area. Whether or not this is warranted or worth it, we cannot know. For that we need actual data that shows what people are actually doing in game.

We probably won’t get actual data so we can only hypothesize. I see the following possible hypotheses:

1) In hindsight it was a bad idea and now it’s a millstone that’s dragging Anet down in development.
2) It was clearly a good idea that warrants the investment but it does put a burden on development.
3) It sort of hangs in the middle and it’s not a decisively positive item which makes it a necessity to keep putting resources into it but not with the desired return.

I think that only in option 2, it can be seen as a successful idea. In option 3, it could serve a greater good, which then makes it a positive or it could be something that makes Anet wish they hadn’t gone for it because it’s a lot of trouble for very little return.

As I don’t expect Anet to share their metrics, I also don’t expect that this discussion will bring forth anything that could make any of the 3 options more plausible than the others.

I do hope it was successful because I like games that give as many options as possible, but if the reality is different, then it’s a shame because it’s a lot of resources that could’ve been spent on other things instead.

The OP is of course worried about the last part. All I can say is I don’t know, but if it is the case then I agree. I just don’t know if it’s the case and I don’t believe anyone here can prove it either way.

Griffin.5379:

We do have numbers:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/POLL-Race-Gender-Profession-demographics/first

Old Data though and nothing pulled from the servers directly,
maybe someone should start a new one

As I said this is a forum poll and that is not generally a reliable source of information.

Griffin.5379:

Edit:
Here some newer data, not 3 years but only 1:
http://i.imgur.com/S5G0i6j.png

Nice picture. Anyone can make that. There is no indication of where the numbers come from so again, this means nothing. In fact this means even less.

Griffin.5379:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3dcvf0/here_are_the_classesraces_that_people_actually/

This one is a bit more interesting but it’s still a survey and not actual numbers pulled from the game. People don’t always tell the truth and they can change their minds on top of that.

Griffin.5379:

And lastly we have this (no idea from when)
http://guildwars2viz.com/

If you look further it looks to be set up 4 years ago. But as we cannot determine the source of his info, this means nothing.

All in all I mentioned that I wanted to see figures on time played with each race and that question you have given zero numbers for. I also don’t expect you to give them, but really this stuff you link here is useless because it’s either a poll or the source information is unknown. I think you best leave these numbers alone really.

Griffin.5379:

We do have numbers:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/POLL-Race-Gender-Profession-demographics/first

That’s just a forum poll. It’s anecdotal at best.