Guild Wars 2

Be careful what you ask for. I’ve noticed that for certain things they’ve looked at Aion and there you could craft the Miragent armour set which was the ultimate set in their vanilla time…one of the pieces was very expensive to make though and the item you needed, had to be a critical craft.

Just imagine having to spend 100g per attempt and after 5 times you still didn’t crit that one….RNG might be part of that crafting process.

I think it’s sad that the legendary weapons and precursors are available at all via the TP.

Oh and if this one is 200g more than the others, that’s probably because it’s linked to the most popular legendary. Supply and demand, it can be a kitten.

Mirta.5029:

But you see – that’s from your point of view. I’ve played plenty of games from the same franchise that I hated, but others I loved. That’s just how it goes.

Oh sure, it’s always about points of view here but sometimes it just feels like just want to do things different from GW1 here just to be different from it, even if it’s a bad idea.

Chase.8415:

I’d like to keep this game in business.

If people are too cheap to pay for a game, they are most likely not going to buy anything in the gem store anyway.

The current price is fine.

In theory, for a B2P game, this makes sense. However, in the market, the older the game gets, the less people are inclined to buy it. simply because it’s an older game.

Now at the moment that may not be a big issue, but I think that latest this time next year things may look a little different.

projectcedric.6951:

Btw, it’s called “social gameplay”.

=))

Well you rarely team up for zerg stuff and certainly don’t talk to other players and often people are left behind unressed because there’s no time to ress you. If you want to call that social…

I think it does what it does in WvW. Attacking a castle and all. Yeh, that’s usually done with an army zo a zerg makes sense there to me. The big dragons….well, not very heroic but considering how things are it makes sense there at well….but for the rest it’s just silly and not very social in my view. But I do get with some people like it.

And to the OP I’d like to say, yep, you’re right…it doesn’t require skill and that’s about where this game wants to be I think.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

I imagine some ascended gear cosmeticwise may surpass legendaries.

I don’t think that will be particularly hard to do.

Vayne.8563:

Ummm I don’t think the scroll means the leveling process is a problem. I think the scroll means that people who don’t want to go through the “tutorial” nature of having the early stuff locked, because they already know about slot skills, and their class mechanic, and traits, don’t have to go through that tutorial part of it again. It takes you past the basic, basic stuff…and that’s all it does.

That’s why you give it to people with 5000 achievement points or for their birthday. To let them skip the tutorial zone.

If leveling itself was a problem it would be 20 levels at any time.

Wait whut, are you being serious here? The whole point in leveling is improving your character by learning new skills, improving stats and unlocking abilities and what have ye….what you call a tutorial that’s leveling akittens best.

And 20 levels of tutorial? Seriously you realise that by, what is it, level 30 you unlock your elite slot and that’s it. Only trait points after for 50 levels.

I will throw it on a different point of view but from where I am sitting what you suggest here sounds completely insane.

Maybe there are some but I’ve never seen anything in a MMO I’ve played (not talking money grabbing f2p cakittenems) of any stature that brought in items that allows you to skip the first 20 levels. That is not a normal reward, letting people skip what should be the most exciting part of the leveling process.

If what you say were true, then you might as well skip to 80 right away because it’s just going to be more of the same for many levels. No, nice try, but your view on this just doesn’t sound reasonable to me. Oh well, different views yet again…

Vayne.8563:

When Anet makes a new game, everyone will be in the new zones, spreading out all over again.

I don’t think it’s a mistake to do what Anet did. I just think you have a different idea of how things should be done…but that doesn’t make the way it was done wrong. Because until you make a game and try your way, you can’t know if it will work. I’ve yet to be in any game, even WoW, where people didn’t complain about dead mid-level zones.

As for SWToR, one of my friends who played it, back when it was pay to play, expressed that most of the zones on his server were completely dead.

SWTOR was in shambles a year ago…but it’s different now. I am talking about this year, not last year.

The reason why I think it’s wrong is because there are too many zones to level and too many levels to begin with. These thinks are linked together although it didn’t have too.

What my contention is (and you may disagree with that of course as it’s just my view), is simply that just like there are too many levels that have no meaning, we also have a lot of leveling zones that are basically meaningless.

When you talk about levels, it’s just that you’ve unlocked everything at level 30 or 35 and beyond that it’s just stacking traitpoints for passive abilities. For me that’s pointless, that’s creating levels for the sake of creating levels. There really isn’t anything to work towards except an arbitrary number. Really, the way they set it up, level 40 would have been more than enough.

But the zones is the same thing and perhaps related to having so many pointless levels. They made the accompanying pointless leveling zones. I say pointless because it simply more of the same and you don’t need them to tell a story and there is no other point to them than repeating what you’ve already done enough times.

For me the fact that they gave out level 20 scrolls to insta level an alt to 20 is proof that I have a point. There is not reason for them to do this unless they see a bottleneck in the leveling. It wouldn’t have been done unless it was a significant issue in their metrics. Let’s be honest here.

And there are people who feel like me that there are too many zones and it gets boring because of it. And that is why I say it was a mistake and more so an avoidable one.

There are many things they could’ve done like fewer levels and bigger level ranges per zone or longer time per level if there were a lot less levels and it wouldn’t split the levelers out as much.

You just simply can’t contend that if there are people of close enough levels spread out over 5 areas, say 6 per zone…that having them in one zone, making it 36 would not make the experience better for a persistent world. I mean why even create a persistent world if you set the circumstances of the game in opposition?

Sure, it’s too late now and it can’t change and for you it’s ok. But the reason it’s being discussed is that for some people it’s sad to be in a persistent world and hardly run into other people while leveling. Especially in a game that’s barely out for a year and is supposedly very successful and especially if it actually was made worse by design and really could’ve been avoided by making other choices.

Also creating all these zones costs resources. Resources that I think could’ve been spent much better. Also the capitals are way too big with few people in them. Again pearls by themselves but you can’t have 6 capitals in one game….people will end up in LA anyway. That’s why I think they would’ve been better off using those wasted resources on more level 80 content.

Any expansion with new continents will just make this worse. Maybe you’re ok with that, but not everybody is.

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

snip

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

Yep, sounds like I’m a dedicated player. I sorta like that. I don’t really care about BIS gear, but if I can get it, I probably will. I just don’t care if I don’t have it. I do all but the hardest end game stuff…like I haven’t spent time fighting Liadri yet, only tried her once. I have beaten every dungeon in the game and I’m up to level 21 fractals, but don’t run the higher levels that often.

Yeh I saw that term used on a MMO website some time ago and I think it works. I fit the same category though I have my hardcore moments

My guess is that if the b-day present could be a random pick from say 12 mini’s and the remaining 30 from the gem store but they were all labeled as being of the same set (yes completionists, a set) then they might’ve even gotten more people interested in getting more of them. For that to work the mini’s should be tradeable of course.

Tachenon.5270:

Gehenna.3625:

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Dedicated players are the guys responsible for Ascended Gear!

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting ‘the Legendary wall.’” ~ Linsey Murdock

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear

No I think they meant the hardcore players more. Those are the ones that wanted another tier of gear. Definitely a different use of “dedicated”

HiddenNick.7206:

Gehenna.3625:

HiddenNick.7206:

Advent.6193:

No thank you. If I were a fan of subscription-based gaming, there are plenty of other options still out there.

Name 3 fantasy based MMO’s with subs.

WoW
LotRo
DDO
Aion
Rift
Tera

Most of them can be played f2p as well but still have sub options that give you more in game.

From whole that list only ONE game have subs. Others are micro transaction based.

False. As I said, they may have added f2p options but they ALL still offer subs. I checked in fact before posting this.

TooBz.3065:

Ok. If we define casual that way. I tend to view casual in terms on engagement. How dedicated are you to the game. A casual player could take the game or leave it.

As a ridiculously over the top “fanboy” (not starting anything, but that’s your reputation, hence the quotes) you do not qualify under my definition of casual. Of course, it’s unreasonable to assume that everyone uses my definition, but that’s exactly the point. The word has too many potential meanings. Much better to say “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only people who don’t want a challenge” or “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only to be people who play for a short period every day” or “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only people who play on weekends” etc…

Well people have different definitions and that can confuse things here as well. I talk purely in terms of how much time they have and how into endgame/hard content they are.

Dedicated is used as in dedicating a lot of time to the game, not being dedicated to the title itself if that makes sense.

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

And the pendulum swings again…

Vayne.8563:

It’s my contention that the world is too big for it to be anything else. Even smaller worlds have this problem, in games with bigger populations. It’s just not that easy to do it right. You either have a tiny world with no options, which sucks, or you direct people to the same places. If there is another alternative, I can’t see it.

Let’s pretend you can only have 1000 people per server. I don’t know the actual number and I’m sure that’s not it, but it will work as an example.

1000 people and 20% of them maybe are in WvW…that only leaves 800 people. But then 10% of those are SPvPing. That only leaves 700 people. But of those 200 are in dungeons. That only leaves 500 people, 100 of which are in LA. That leaves 400 people. Assuming that those 400 people were divided equally between 25 zones, you get about 16 people per zone…and those zones are pretty big. You put that number of people in a zone, there’s a relatively big chance they’ll never run into each other.

Now I don’t know server caps, but once you start thinking about people who play at 4 am and you can’t make a world small enough for them. The only solution is to direct them to all be in a certain place at a certain time…or encourage them anyway.

Well, this is my point. You explained very well how people are divided up between different areas because of different activities. That is exactly the reason why I say that the original leveling world could’ve been smaller.

It is however also linked to the ridiculous level cap of 80. The solution for the leveling issue is actually simple enough. Make sure people spend more time in each zone while leveling. That’s why less zones at the start would’ve sufficed and they could’ve added more zones as the game progressed with endgame content or max level content if you prefer.

I think that it’s a shame that they put the dungeons mostly in low level zones with a tp next to it for example.

If dungeons were a little harder and more endgame content it would’ve been better and then put new dungeons in new areas for example. I mean this is just one small example but there is so much more that could’ve been done.

Right now dungeons are really done by level 80s mostly anyway, regardless if it’s Arah or AC.

Now, to change stuff now is not possible but these are the mistakes they made in my view that contribute to the current problems. And it surprised me because they originally set out to make a game that wouldn’t have that issue.

You tell me. Any MMO you say has some degree of this. SWTOR is actually pretty good in this respect because there are usually people in all leveling planets, but I can accept that that is an exception to the rule.

So, you’re Anet and see this issue and see how people were way spread out in your own GW1. You make a new game then and knowing this is an issue you make a super large world with lots of zones to level in. But, then you say, aha but level 80s can come back here because of the level downgrade system so the whole world is endgame. Then you set rewards a lot lower so level 80s are not interested in doing so.

Surely, somebody could’ve put two and two together? This game really needed fewer leveling zones and more level 80 zones with a purpose. If you want something specific you have to go there. If you want something else you need to go to another place. Dungeon access, materials whatever. The problem is now that most zones are just for pure leveling and a couple for farming. Not a great dynamic in my view.

Vayne.8563:

You’re probably right. I’m just pointing out that the problem is far more limited here than in other games. All the same stuff you used to do…hearts, DEs…they’re all still here. They’re all still viable. Any zone you want to go back to…still there. Jumping puzzles…all still there.

So yes, there’s some culture shock coming back to the game..but considering most of the LS stuff has been temporary…I don’t see it as that much.

It really depends on the game I guess. There are definitely issues with gear treadmills in som games when you come back into it. Some games have managed to minimise that problem allowing you to come back in quickly.

But I think it’s too early to tell for GW2. Well still have to see what ascended gear will do. There may come a point that everybody is decked out in full ascended gear and people come back then finding themselves against time gated content to get there themselves.

Also I don’t know how long it will be till the level cap will be raised. That also will have this effect.

At the moment yeh, coming back to GW2 is easy in that sense, aside perhaps from finding out that you have achievements you can never get because of content you can never do cause it’s gone.

But I do think that in the future this topic might get revisited because there are some changes coming in the next year or so that I expect might change that ease of return.

And if you are a solo player or come back to a disintegrated guild, it is a bit of a jungle trying to figure out what is going in this game, cause in a sense it’s all over the place and you are way behind on fractal levels if you’re into that.

wouw.5837:

No, just no.

’nough said

I guess you don’t read very well. Subs are no good for GW2. They work for other games to varying degrees but the point is not here to bring subs to GW2…seems like you thought that’s what people are saying here.

Ashen.2907:

Question for you:

Are those upcoming titles going to be, “standard,” sub models in the traditional sense ?

1) monthly sub fee without any free to play option ?

2) all content and features included with no cash shop ?

I am honestly curious about this because the evolution of the MMO business model has added elements such as these to the perceived monetary value of the genre. I am somewhat surprised by the idea that the companies funding MMOs have decided to reduce their ability to recoup development costs and reduce potential revenue by going back to what was once the standard sub model instead of the current trend of hybrid models.

Well, it depends a bit on the company I think. If you look at the new FF MMO, they are definitely sticking to the sub only.

Wildstar has mainly a sub but an option to work for your sub in game. They do indicate on their website this is made for people who have a lot of time. So this would mean that most people probably won’t be able to get away with not having a sub.

My guess is though that companies have discovered something new. Rather than going B2P or F2P they start with a sub with perhaps a second option that is not for most people (to attract box sales I guess) and are already prepared to add f2p options into the mix at a later stage IF needed.

I think part of the problem is that because most MMO players have played MMOs before, the expectations of a new game are higher. Perhaps they are ready to meet those standards.

The cash shops are here to stay. Especially with subs they create a good basis. The combination of subs and microtransactions has proven to be lucrative. I see it in SWTOR. Bioware made a lot of mistakes in the first year of the game. But since they’ve added F2P options and a cash shop that is rather more interesting than the one here if I may add, the game’s demise has been turned around and new content is being added etc.

I suspect that a developer might look at it and say: Ok, we will get x amount from box sales. We use subs as long as we can and add F2P after 6 months to a year if needed or desired. At that stage we’ve made alot by the initial sales and subs and a large % of players still prefer subs.

So I don’t see them wanting to step away from subs, but I do think that aside from a couple of exceptions most MMOs will add F2P options at some point but AAA titles are not likely to go B2P or F2P from the start like GW2.

Subs create stability for an MMO. That is what people forget sometimes, but they do need to have more ready at the start of a game because people expect certain things in there from the start now and not after a year or something.

The biggest problem lies there I think and is why MMOs lose half their player base in a matter of months.

Vayne.8563:

New continents will just give them more areas to run stories in. The game isn’t spread out so much now, because people are directed about where to go by the living story. This actually works. It gets people together in one place.

Adding more zones won’t change anything in this.

Well, it was their argument way back when. I do agree with you but from a different viewpoint. The idea that fractals, the grind of the month and the events are the things that bring certain groups together does work to a point.

However, if you are taking your time leveling through the zones and want someone to chat with and you’re not in one of those very active guilds, reality is that that part of the game people are really spread out in.

I find it midly ironic that Anet created a huge world, only to funnel them into an instance and whichever current event there is. It just would’ve been a much better idea to’ve started with a level cap of 50 and half the leveling zones we have now. That would cause more levelers to be in the same zone. That’s all I’m saying.

The fact that they are going the way of expansions at some point (my guess is about a year after China goes live), means that this will increase that effect. They will again make the world bigger and bigger and considering they already add new areas within the existing map they might end up doing it faster than in GW1…where they themselves recognised that as a problem. So yeh, it looks like GW2 will turn into a huge world where people are found in 3 places and the rest is empty. I guess I just don’t see the point in creating such a big world if you’re not gonna use it. That seems like a waste of resources they could use better.

Vayne.8563:

RedStar.4218:

They should have awarded the gifts based on the account age, not the characters. Players might have whined, but what difference would it have made ? More than 1 Mini Queen is useless (even just 1 is), not a lot of players have any use for experience scrolls, and no one cares about the boosters.

No one cares about magic find boosters? Ummm kay.

I am pretty sure a number of players logged in just for those MF boosters. Of course after a couple of days this will be forgotten again, but I think the boosters got the least amount of flack on the forums here, aside from a couple of people who didn’t realise it was a temp boost.

Some people just like to talk in between fighting. Not everybody has a guild that has constant guild chat activity and there is something fun about meeting new people.

You don’t have to be efficient all the time really. You can just stop fighting and talk to people. It’s a much underrated part of the MMO experience in my view and one that this game is not ideal for in my view.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen them say they wouldn’t bring out the other continents. Most recently Mike Z has said he’d like to. Not sure where I saw it, but that’s the latest.

Well, they did talk a lot more to the community way back when. A lot of this is lost by now perhaps, but it came up way before GW2 was released. It was part of their design because there were discussions at the time of how people were spread out over the continents. This started before EotN was out because that’s why EotN was part of Tyria again and not another new continent. Then they also said they wanted to change their approach with GW2 when it was announced.

There are two difficulties here. A lot of the people that worked at Anet on GW1 and the beginnings of GW2 are no longer there. I am sure the new team doesn’t feel responsible for what was said back then but people who saw these interviews do remember them.

Secondly, I fully understand that over time things change. What’s annoying though is that they say one thing and then years later act like they never said it or give an “explanation” of what they actually meant. Or they just stay silent on a subject and suddenly out of the blue their approach has completely changed. I know a lot of people still like to bring up the manifesto but I am talking about stuff before that.

Now I don’t mind if they want to bring out expansions after all, but when I look back at the reasons EotN was not a new continent and how they said multiple times back then they didn’t want to make that mistake again because it spreads people out too much, you can understand that this is a surprise.

To be honest, people are already spread out too much and then funneled in a couple of activities like fractals and champion runs. So new expansions of new continents won’t cause that problem.

I do wonder now though what they would do for example if they were to bring out Cantha. I guess it will be all level 80 zones…..or wait a minute, perhaps it’s how they will do the level cap raise…

Leveling up in this game is more like a single player. The zones are underpopulated also on my server, mostly because of the events and most people being level 80 on multiple characters. Perhaps other servers are different, I wouldn’t know.

I mostly play SWTOR for example and there’s a lot more activity on the individual leveling planets there. Sure it depends a bit on the time of day but usually there are people around and you also see a counter of how many people are on that planet.

I think part of the problem is that when leveling, you can go through a zone quite quickly till you hit the max level indicator for that zone and you move on. Each zones has their separate chat. In SWTOR planets often only have about a range of 5 levels and yet it seems that you can hang around and chat a bit more to people when you want. Sometimes you wanna level but when you want to strike up a conversation it’s not a problem really.

The leveling process in GW2 is just spread out over too many zones I think. It’s normal that you see less people in a leveling zone after a game has been out for a bit but the amount of zones and the fact that there are multiple zones for each level to choose from makes it that people are way more spread out than in other MMOs I played.

Vayne.8563:

So no one ever complained about changes and stuff done in Guild Wars 1…is this your contention?

Do you know why Guild Wars 1 didn’t see forum issues like Guild Wars 2 does? Because it had no official forums and for most of it’s life, people went to Guru, where the moderators for most of it’s life were so strict it was worse than the military.

I was on gwguru a lot and it never felt so strict as you describe. I don’t think I ever got an infraction or posts deleted there and you know what I’m like

Vayne.8563:

I made a negative post once about Guild Wars 2 and my thread was immediate closed. So yeah…hard to say that people didn’t complain about stuff done in Guild Wars 1, because people complain about everything all the time. I’ve been in lots of MMO forums and they’re all like this.

I wonder if it was closed because it was about GW2. Before GW2 was out people speculated about the game and I put some negative comments there. Never got closed or deleted though.

Vayne.8563:

And I strongly suspect if Guild Wars 1 had an official forum (which they didn’t), it would have ended up much like this as well.

This I do agree with. Not to say that there was never anything negative on gwguru. There certainly was. But there was another forum for GW1 that was used a lot (the name escapes me now) and that was a total cesspool.

I think because this is an official forum, it’s combined the two, or at least the cesspool made it over here. And you’re right, MMO forums in general are like this also from my experience.

WvW is zerging around a map. Your gear is rather secondary to being in a mob. Just those trinkets really won’t make a difference there.

Oh another thread about this. Well, I will say this. It seems to me that giving every character the exact same mini, while they add over 40 mini’s to the gem store is something that upsets people.

And the L20 scroll, which is given to people who mostly don’t need it, seems another.

While the first part is a shame and I can understand that everybody gets the same is a bit disappointing, I find the second part the most baffling part of this.

I mean, I would think that the people who’ve played for a year and played actively would be the ones who least need this. It’s the first time I’ve seen an item in a game like this where you can pop the scroll and you’re level 20. Now I’ve always said I found the leveling too long and boring because after level 30-40 it becomes meaningless, but giving out a L20 scroll does indicate to me that Anet acknowledges this issue. Why give out scrolls like this if people enjoy leveling new characters? I guess there must be a lot of people with characters that are very low level that never progress beyond level 2 or 5 or whatever, because why else would they even bring out scrolls like this?

I think it would’ve made more sense to make the scroll a 1 per account thing that everybody gets, to sort of revitalise alts in general. Oh well.

Wanderer.3248:

WoW was released November 2004, and the first expansion in January 2007. They’ve done an expansion every two years, more or less. I’m not sure why people expected a full GW2 expansion after only one year.

Not that WoW is the only way to do things.

When WoW came out it was a disaster. Servers not working, long queues etc. People were more forgiving though and it was something new for a lot of people at the time. People were quite loyal.

Nowadays we see that any MMO comes out with big fanfare, make lots of sales the first month or two and then it collapses like a pudding. People actually get bored with games within the first couple of months. This is why there is more pressure on bringing out new content more quickly.

This game has been out for a year now. They sold over 3 million copies of the game but the first 2 million were at the beginning. Sales are way down, but that’s normal. It’s impossible to tell how the retention is of active players cause there are no clear numbers on it, but my guess is that at least half the players that bought the game don’t play anymore or only log in occasionally to have a look, because well, it’s without sub. I guess that because that normally happens that about half the player base leaves.

Now I am no saying that the game is dying. NcSoft in their report, even though sales were down again last quarter, said that GW2 is stabilising. That means to me that they feel they’ve reached the bottom of the decline. And the basis may well be enough to sustain the game and China is opening. That’s an interesting element because from what I see other games, even Asian ones seem to bring games to China without subs. Apparently China is interested in sub free games. That could be ideal for a game like GW2. Whether they like not having to grind for their gear is another thing.

Still I don’t expect any expansions for now because China will probably bring in a lot of cash with the existing game and there won’t be a chance on an expansion till the game’s been out there for a while. That wouldn’t make financial sense.

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Right, that’s what I’m saying…because that’s what Anet has said.

And I’m saying that when Anet says something it’s not written in stone, because they can just as easily make a 180 and say well, we didn’t actually say never and circumstances are different now blah blah blah.

Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next two years we suddenly see an expansion bringing Cantha, simply because they said it’s unlikely to happen.

I’m not saying they’re not going to bring Cantha in. I fully expect Cantha and Elona. I’m saying it’ll be an expansion, not a full game like they did with the first Guild Wars.

The reason they gave for saying it makes as much sense now as it did back then. When and if they come out with an expansion, it will be a true expansion, not a stand alone product.

Ahh yeah, that I doubt as well. The stand alone thing was a way to get people to buy the new part without having to buy the original. Still, I do think that if they bring out Cantha or something, they will probably give some deal to include the original game. People generally don’t wanna spend 100 bucks to start a game.

Oh sure, they’ll do it like Wow does. When you buy the new thing it includes the old thing. But it won’t be a stand alone game…and therefore it’s hard to compare these two products directly. They really are different things.

The GW1 expansions were unique in their way. Still, before GW2 came out they were saying that they wouldn’t bring back Cantha or Elona, because that would divide the player base as they felt it had in GW1. That’s the reason they gave for not continuing with expansions in GW1 and why EotN was different as it was than the other expansions.

They have said at later stages that they wouldn’t bring out new continents or expansions but then things get a bit vague. And now it seems like the latest version of their truth is to say they don’t want to make expansions in the same way (stand alone).

And you certainly seem convinced that they will bring out the continents even though a few years ago they already started saying they wouldn’t.

This is also why I was so surprised to see Tyria back in GW2 with so many zones. The world is huge compared to GW1 originally. It seemed to defeat the purpose of not wanting to spread people out too far.

Of course the game now has champion zerging and fractals and that’s about all people do unless there’s an event. That technically does bring people together if you have so few places that people tend to find interesting to be at for the loot of course. That does beg the question why create such a big world, that is actually too big and probably cost a lot of resources to make only to abandon it and funnel people in a couple of activities.

My guess is that when Cantha comes out, Tyria will be all but abandoned. I guess I will forever be confused between three things: What they originally said, what they said after and what they did in the end.

Superfast.5901:

Interesting thread, but who can deny that GW2 is the perfect MMO? :/ change your expectations!

I can and I do. It’s not perfect. Is this some simplistic troll attempt or do you seriously think any game is perfect? It’s not about perfection, it’s about being exciting and it pulling you back in, even though there are flaws. People have very different opinions about that as you can see.

Esplen.3940:

Viable in terms of profit, I agree. There is, however, a difference between companies that want to sell entertainment versus a product. Arenanet is trying to sell entertainment, most other games are trying to sell a product.

I wasn’t talking about Anet. He did. What I see happened is that silvermember starting responding to something I said to someone else as if it was him. That confused me.

It was Xae something who said the following:

There’s a reason why games these days don’t do standard subscription models anymore. It just doesn’t work.

When every other game in competition with you does a B2P/microtrans model, you simply can’t sell the game on a subs model.

That’s what this is about.

Esplen.3940:

If you use factual information of this moment, then where are your sources? All I see is you bashing someone for actually citing factual information without actually having any credentials yourself.

Again I blame this on silvermember taking over for someone else. And I did give a link directly to the wildstar site. And it’s factual that other new games like the new FF MMO will be sub based. Those are the facts I am refering to. Also current MMOs like SWTOR, DDO, LotrO etc still have sub options. Again those are the facts I am talking about.

Esplen.3940:

He never, in the entirety of his post, stated that B2P is the new standard. You brought that up twice in a response to him and then stated that it was his idea and that he’s wrong because he stated it (which, I’ll re-iterate, he didn’t state).

I don’t agree that B2P is the new standard, but I do believe that it’s a fairer method. That’s my opinion. I am entitled to it. If you disagree, you are entitled to that.

As I said, originally I was responding to this Xae guy and Silvermember just decided to butt in and confuse matters. This whole discussion was about Xae’s comment. Not what Silver decided to throw into it as if it was him I replied to.

MrRuin.9740:

Whats ignorant is expecting tailored free gifts from a faceless company that doesnt even know who you are, or even one thats going to even please the majority of the population. Had they done the same thing as GW1, altaholics would be claimed to be having an unfair ‘advantage’ due to receiving so many more RNG minis. I would bet anything the forums would be full of people raging about this. How they got slapped in the face for having fewer characters. It’s lose/lose for Anet any way they go when all it is, is a gesture.

It’s not ignorant to expect something a company has done before in a previous installment of a game with the same name.

Perhaps if it’s lose-lose they shouldn’t have done it at all as others suggested, but if you do something once and do something similar again but not as good, it’s just not a smart idea. The best idea would’ve been either nothing or something completely different.

MrRuin.9740:

Its ignorant to claim the gimmick gesture they do make is a ‘slap in the face’ or ‘crap’ or ‘garbage’ and go on about it like people are. If someone gave you a birthday card you didnt like, do you throw back in their face, call them names and demand something better? No, you graciously accept they did anything at all. And thats real life. A virtual life is not even close to being as serious as that.

It’s not ignorance. Although I never called it any of these things myself, I do agree people are overreacting but it’s not ignorance. Don’t get hung up on that word. I called you ignorant because you indicate that you don’t get that people can be different than you are, nothing more. I also think they are overreacting but I do understand why and I just wonder why Anet chose this. I’ll gladly understand that as well if I ever get the opportunity.

MrRuin.9740:

Do you write any other software developer and demand a gift because you’ve been playing their games? Should I write Nintendo and demand a present on the Anniversary I bought their SNES? Should I write any other software developer that has online service other than MMO and demand a ‘present’ for the time invested playing and honing skills? No….because MMO’s have a unique sense of self-entitlement in their playerbases.

I don’t demand any such thing. I simply indicate that you could have a bit more understanding why people flip out over this. Don’t mistake understanding for agreeing, it’s not the same.

There is a lot of entitlement, but also that should not be confused with the expectations Anet has set themselves. I think the greatest disservice they’ve done themselves and the players is calling it GW2, because in essence this game doesn’t have much of anything to do with GW1. That created expectations that they weren’t going to fullfil.

I play SWTOR and I don’t expect them to give me mini’s because Bioware doesn’t do that. Anet did do it….guess what, people expect it again.

Really they should’ve let go of Guild Wars and made this a completely separate game with a different world and background.

They kept it in Tyria and it’s come to bite them in the kitten as a consequence. That’s why people have these expectations here and not in other games.

silvermember.8941:

Actually, Arenanet making gw2 b2p is keeping with their believe they have HELD since BEFORE they go purchase by NCsoft. And it is pretty cool of Ncsoft to let ARenanet do what it wanted with that model.

So what? It’s not about what Anet promised, it’s about the fact that new MMOs are still starting with subs and existing MMOs that went f2p still offer subs because it is a viable option.

The idea that B2P is the new standard is complete nonesense.

silvermember.8941:

Blade and soul is subscription only in Korea, in china is going f2p. Wildstar is an unproven title so you really cannot make a statement about it UNTIL after it releases. Even still then, you have to wait until 6 months before anything conclusive.

Again, I go by what companies present. I use factual information of this moment. Of course things can change after release but as I said current MMOs still offer subs even when they have f2p options and you on the other hand are completely making things up. B2P is not the new fashion. It just isn’t. You just made that up because GW2 is all you can see.

Lopez.7369:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The thing with the inflation is that gold also becomes easier to get as well. Although gems are more expensive than ever, I have more gold than ever.

It’s sad how long it took someone to explain basic economics in this thread.

Except that it’s not a free market and Anet can set their own thresholds regardless of the basic economics you refer to. From the start they’ve said this, so I don’t know why people would think it’s just basic economics going on here.

I don’t even like it in normal pve content. It’s a bad idea and because it’s part of the combat system as it is, you’re expected to go down. Not very heroic and for me a mechanic I could’ve done without.

cheshirefox.7026:

let’kitten that 1g = 1gem ratio
c’mon guildwars2 heros, i know you can do it!

Not only that, they will do it and if you dare complain, they’ll tell you life is much easier if you just accept it.

Corian.4068:

My understanding of this is that they are planning an expansion, they just don’t know which type of release (living world, DLC, traditional expansion) will net them the most money.

The current set up with small regular updates is cheapest for them. That’s why they do it. They say themselves that an expansion is unlikely. It will only happen if they have no choice basically.

Titan.3472:

Once upon a time an Eskimo received a fridge as gift.

Which is quite useful to him because it actually keeps his normal food from being frozen….

RoRo.8270:

Gehenna.3625:

This game is brought out by Anet, they are part of NcSoft. NcSoft is coming out with a new game which is called Wildstart. It will have a sub, but they will allow you to earn your sub ingame as you can use the first month free with the box purchase to build up enough in game cash to pay for your sub. Of course you’d have to keep that up every month.

The game is called Wildstar. Also I can’t seem to find the information on their payment method. Where did you hear it was b2p then p2p

Yes a t too many. It is Wildstar….I could find it quite easily with google. I never said it was b2p, my point was that even though Anet went B2P, NcSoft the parent company still doesn’t.

Wildstar will have a sub, but alternatively you can use the first month you get with the box purchase to start saving in game for CREDDS. This allows you buy your sub every month with in game cash. That will of course reduce your purchasing power inside the game and if ever you don’t make it one month, you will need to get a month’s sub at least to start over again.

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/business-model/

It’s all on their website so I have no idea why you couldn’t find it. Learn 2 Google? :p

MrRuin.9740:

Your ‘first of all’ is contradictory. You enjoyed GW1 and want this game to be like GW1. This is what you want and want others to want what you do. Its your opinon it isnt as good. Its your opinion that they should have done the same thing. So that means everyone should want that?

It’s not contradictory. You may disagree with my view but it’s not a contradiction. What I am saying is that they had something that worked in GW1 and they did something different here that gets a lot of negativity. Doesn’t sound like a smart move. If it ain’t broke why fix it? That’s all I’m saying. And let’s be honest, Anet is starting to bring out gear based in GW1 gear (Zodiac anyone). So it’s not so strange to think they might have done this in a similar way.

MrRuin.9740:

Secondly, doing something in one game doesnt mean its a tradition. It doesnt mean anything except its a mechanic of that one game. Especially when its been pointed out incessantly on these forums for the last year that GW2 is NOT GW1. They have done little to carry over things from GW1 or make GW2 seem like GW1 for the people who have wanted that. Why would anyone ever expect this to be different?

I know it’s now GW1, but it’s the same company making one mistake after another, while they did it better in their previous game. Seems silly to upset people by doing something that clearly isn’t as cool as what they did in GW1. They couldve done something entirely different than this for all I care. But they gave a mini, like in GW1 but didn’t make them collectible. Why bring something in they clearly did in GW1 but make a lesser version of it? That just boggles the mind.

MrRuin.9740:

Lastly, yes I do understand putting a lot of time into a character and caring about the time put into it. Still doesnt make it real. People seem to be putting the same kind of relevance on a virtual avatar as they would a real person. Like Anet should know each person and what they would want. Or that they should pull some magical amazing present that would overjoy the entire playerbase. An avatars ‘birthday’ is a celebration of a user clicking a few buttons a year ago. Its a gimmicky thing they do to add to the game and people are taking it far too seriously.

This happens in many MMOs that have a similar system. Company does some gimmick thing that mimics real life and the playerbase swells up in greed and complaints. Its not just here, but it still just as ridiculous to see.

Perception is reality. People invest in a lot of things that aren’t real in a physical sense. However, what you fail to see, is that the emotions people have and the connections to game characters, or books or movies or anything like that are real.

If people spend 30+ hours a week on something, surely you should be able to grasp the inevitable attachment people can have to what they do. The game isn’t real but their playing it and being involved in it is real emotion.

If you don’t feel that at all, that’s fine. But to basically ridicule it because you don’t look at it the same way is rather, well, ignorant really.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I could stomach for any length of time. I don’t consider Guild Wars 1 an MMO for various reasons, and neither did Anet.

Of MMOs I’ve played WoW, Rift, Lotro, Aion, AoC, Perfect World, DDO and a few other odds and ends along the way. I couldn’t stay past the 3-4 month point in any of them. AoC would have likely been the closest, but for constant crashes on my machine (when no other game did). Lotro would have been next, but the amount of money that cash shop cost me was obscene.

In the end, this is the first MMO I’ve made it past the four month mark with. Is it special?

Compare to other MMOs out there, it is to me.

maybe that just makes you special

What I was saying though is that more than one game can be special to you. I would’ve like for GW2 to become a special game for me as well.

I played Aion for a year and a half and SWTOR since the beginning and still play it, with a short break last year to start GW2.

So I played 2 MMOs for a longer period and GW2 is sadly that game that I wanted to be special for me but it just refuses to be. That’s how it feels to me.

The current level 20 scroll that people are getting, to me, proves that they recognise their leveling process has a problem. Why else would they give everybody insta level 20, if people enjoyed leveling?

But I can fully understand that if this is the first MMO you played for more than 4 months that that means something to you. That’s fair enough.

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a reason why games these days don’t do standard subscription models anymore. It just doesn’t work.

When every other game in competition with you does a B2P/microtrans model, you simply can’t sell the game on a subs model.

Except they do standard subs still. The new titles coming out in the next year do often have subs, and the MMOs that have added f2p still have subs as an option because obviously there is still an interest in it.

Even NcSoft, you know the company that Anet belongs to, is using a sub model for their current blade and soul and their next game Wildstar again.

I would suggest doing a bit of research before making any outrageous comments like this. What you say is simply not true.

Bassi.3627:

It’s no mystery.

The cash shop is the only way to get Minipets and they want to keep it that way.

Well it is to me, because they could still do the cash shop thing without kitten ing off a lot of people.

To me it’s just another chapter in the reward system issues book.

Did Anet realise people would fail events on purpose to spawn more champions, did they anticipate the pain train zerging in circles endlessly because of the quick respawn of champs?

Hard to say.

Vayne.8563:

You’re not wrong. This seems a pretty strange choice for Anet to have made. I’m not quite sure what’s behind it.

It’s a bit of a mystery alright. I am trying to think of what made them decide on what they did and I just can’t make any logical sense out of it. Just out of curiosity I would’ve liked to’ve been able to peek in their meeting room when they were deciding this. It just seems odd.

I don’t think GW2 is at risk of getting subscriptions. It’s such a huge changeover from the current plan, that I do think it would harm this game more than help it.

And yes, I do agree with Kono that the gemstore selections could be much better. Cosmetics sell and the current range doesn’t seem good enough to me. I certainly have never felt the desire to buy anything there. I play SWTOR and I do pay a sub and buy stuff from their cartel market. It’s worth it to me because I enjoy that game.

If I enjoyed GW2 more and liked the stuff in the gemstore I would spend money on it. So far I haven’t spent a single penny beyond the box price.

Himei.5379:

phokus.8934:

People complaining about free items that ANet decided to do when they didn’t have to!? Say it ain’t so…

You people are ridiculous.

Exactly my thoughts. They dont have to give us ANYTHING! Just because they did so in GW1, doesnt mean it has to be the same for GW2 since its a whole different game, reasons why some things from part 1 didnt make it to part 2. Accept your gifts, along with all the other easy items gained from living story and keep playing.

And we don’t have to give them money either. Bottom line is that there are expectations and some of them set by Anet themselves. You can’t just say then that people just should accept everything someone throws at you.

Every time a company gives you something for free, I don’t care how big the letters are to showcase it as FREE, it’s part of an experience that you have paid for. That doesn’t have the same feeling to me.

The fact that this topic exploded here just shows how important these little things are. Now, you may be right in saying that little things shouldn’t matter that much, but perhaps there is more than entitlement going on here. Perhaps people are focusing on each little thing because they already are dissatisfied customers to some degree.

Just like stress, small things get you over that edge, if you already have a stress level close to but just under that edge. The same goes for dissatisfaction I’d say.

There may be a lot of people who already have a number of question marks about this game and then this small thing is just the thing that tips them over the edge.

Honestly, it’s a realistic possibility.

cesmode.4257:

Question: how are people making 10 gold / hour with the invasions? You can only do one invasion per hour. Are you selling everything you get? I mean…even champs typically drop junk anyways. Karma, 5-10 silver, maybe an orichalcum ore.

I just dont see how people are doing 30+ in 3 hours, 10 in 1 hour.

I haven’t done these, so a question to you: Is it one invasion per hour per account or per character?

Heizero.9183:

In queen’s gauntlet players were making 100g+ a day EASY. Now that new sales are up in gem store, they are USING that gold to convert to gems, therefore causing the xchange rate to rise. It is basic economics. The more gold that enters the market, the less it is worth. How do people not understand this?

It’s not about understanding.

SOME players were making 100g per day. The rest got shafterd. Also Anet has control over the market so they can manipulate it as they see fit. That’s fair enough but that also means the prices don’t have to be so high for gems. Sadly in this game, gold can buy you everything.

I would’ve found it much more interesting if a it would take a currency like karma to get gems. That would be much easier to control. Gold is just out of control in this game but it means that a number of people have way too much of it and it punishes the people who are not as tuned into TP uptrading or grinding champions all day long every day.

Too bad really.

Tyr.1965:

Nothing’s really changed about gem prices. Sure, the cost in gold for 100 gems has certainly gone up, but so has the amount of gold you can make in the game. Before champ farming, people were grinding T6 mats or whatever for their gold. Either way, they were spending time playing the game to make gold to buy gems. In the same amount of time it used to take to make 10g, you can now make triple or more. And gem prices reflect that. But time is the real currency here. All the other numbers are meaningless. Either way, you’re still spending about the same amount of time to make the gold to buy 100 gems whether those gems cost 1g or 10g. Of course, if you’re not willing to grind events like everyone else, you’re screwed, but the lazy will always be poor in this game.

I don’t think that’s right. It seems to me the gem prices are higher in comparison still and I most certainly don’t think everybody else is willing to grind events.

And the lazy will not be poor in this game. They could have real cash or they can be smart at the TP. Grinding events is the poor man’s game in fact.

The game allows people with a bit of savvy to become extremely rich. In the first month of this game we already had people who had hundreds of golds. Gold is a more accessible to more players at the moment, but if you want to get 800 gems with gold, I’ve got the feeling that takes an average player more time now than before.

Chuo.4238:

Well, this has been a spectacular 1st Anniversary for Guild Wars 2

lol, it certainly isn’t passing by quietly, that’s for sure.