Guild Wars 2

MrRuin.9740:

Gehenna.3625:

Maybe they shouldn’t have loot in games at all, because characters are not real. In fact why make games at all….none of it’s real.

Real nice. Because playing a game for fun is the same as people treating a virtual birthday as a real birthday and wanting to feel “special” from a faceless gaming company. It’s not real, ANet does not know who you are, will not tailor a present to your liking. The birthday system is an automated system that sends out little trinket gifts on a virtual birthday. That’s it.

First of all, you don’t get to decide for other people what’s fun to them. A lot of GW1 players had fun collecting and trading mini’s. It worked just fine. It’s beyond me why they didn’t use the same good idea and had to do something else that isn’t as good.

Secondly, Anet started this tradition themselves in the first GW1. I am pretty sure there would be an even bigger kittenstorm if they hadn’t done anyhting as you suggest.

Lastly, people do care about their characters especially when they spend a lot of time on them. If you don’t get that, that’s ok, but just realise characters do mean something to a lot of people as we can see. Ignoring that doesn’t make your comment any less ridiculous.

Nuka Cola.8520:

right now its 18 gems for 1g… At these prices people defending gem store with their bs comments such as “Anet is giving you choice of buying stuff with dollars or in game money” becomes irrelevant, completely irrelevant. wtf will happen in 4 months? 3 gems for 1g? i mean what in the kittend of bullkitten is this? Anet is pretty much forcing you to spend real dollars if you want to buy anything on their store.

Spend real cash or grind your kitten off….sounds about right.

MrRuin.9740:

My opinion is that they should not give out anything at all. These are characters, not real people, they dont have birthdays.
Though its neat Anet would treat the creation day as a birthday, some people are attaching far too much to it. Wanting to feel ‘special’ out of a playerbase of who knows how many, saying how much it all sucks.
Its a virtual birthday for pixelated people that means absolutely nothing. It always irks me when a company does some little thing like this for a “special day” and people crap all over them for it. Personally, I’d prefer it if they didn’t “celebrate” these meaningless dates at all. If you don’t like the present, destroy it and move on.

Maybe they shouldn’t have loot in games at all, because characters are not real. In fact why make games at all….none of it’s real.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars was special to you. Guild Wars 2 is just another game to you.

Guild Wars was special to me, but I like Guild Wars 2 more than I liked Guild Wars 1. They are very different games.

I’m sure that you’ll find another game you like more, but I think a lot of your negativity towards Guild Wars 2 is because Guild Wars 1 was special to you. In order for this game to have been as special it would have had to have been closer to what Guild Wars 1 was.

That it wasn’t feels like a betrayal to a whole lot of people.

Well, GW1 was special to me too and so is SWTOR. Even Aion I had more of a connection with in the end than GW2.

I do think you’re right that GW2 feels like just another game tough. That’s particularly rough since it’s called Guild Wars like it’s predecessor. Honestly I think it would’ve been fairer if they’d given it a completely different name since, obviously, people who liked GW1 a lot cannot help but feel this is nothing like it and that’s what the GW name meant to them.

It’s all water under the bridge by now, but yeah, you’re right. GW2 doesn’t feel special and it should’ve from my point of view. But even that aside I just don’t get how they seem to hate on GW1 themselves. Not in words, but they new the mini’s were a big deal and still are to a lot of people. The GW1 system for b-days worked really well. Why on earth would you choose to change something that worked into something that anyone can tell you, isn’t as good an idea as how they did it before.

It just seems that Anet wants to get away from GW1 just for the same of getting away from it. Even the good stuff there they don’t want to keep. At least that’s how it feels to me.

Ascended gear is time gated and only trinkets, but we are getting closer to actual ascended gear like armour and such.. Apparently it will be craftable.

Berzerker stats are the best for every class. I just came back 3 weeks ago after an 8 month hiatus and have quit again this week. Maybe you’ll fare better.

Oh I agree subs are no option for GW2.

I disagree that subs require you to grind. That’s still optional and really depends on the game. People get different things from different games, sub or not.

Morrigan.2809:

Gehenna.3625:

Well as box sales are dropping they need to encourage people to spend real money on gems. It’s been known from the start that the currency exchange is not just a matter of supply and demand but Anet setting thresholds. Don’t forget gems sales are key to this game’s success. The box sales alone will never be enough to maintain the game.

links?
or is all this just speculation on your part?
As far as I understated Anet is making so much money from the gem-shop that they do not need to release a paid expansion
Sales are also not falling off as far as I know
Gems- exchanged for gold puts gems in the game to be bought with gold.
People are farming like crazy and making a bazillion gold- they exchange it for gems.

Sorry, thought this was common knowledge.

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/earnings.aspx Here you can see the financial reports and in comparison see that GW2 is selling less than the previous quarter and a lot less than the quarter before that when the game released.

I’d like to see a link that shows that they don’t make an expansion because they make enough money as you say. Because I don’t think that’s true. I think they prefer not to make an expansion period, but only if they have to.

Don’t foget they are releasing the game in China soon, which could bring in a lot of cash for them. That will allow them to on as well without expansions or anything else. But it will allow them to build an expansion for the future. Let’s say a year after the China release if things have slowed down there as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that the game is dying, but sales are definitely down and getting close to Aion sales, which is a game that certainly bombed in the west but still does fine in Korea. You might find that over time GW2 might go the same with if it scores in China. If it flops there, then it becomes a very different story.

I do wonder if the Chinese would really like such an easy mode game…time will tell.

It seems to me it would’ve made more sense if characters got random mini’s like in GW1 and that they should’ve given every account, regardless of age, a scroll to entice people to use an alt.

Pennry.9215:

Gehenna.3625:

I didn’t say it was a good idea, but I do wonder what could’ve moved them to give people an item like this. The only thing I can think of is that there are a lot of abandoned low level alts.

It actually fits in with their whole “play how you want” bit with people creating and playing more than one class and/or race. It’s a “you’ve played this character for a whole year, how about trying out another?” However, it contradicts their movement toward time-gating.

You wouldn’t need a scroll to skip the first twenty levels if people generally enjoy leveling a toon. Apparently that’s not the case or at least not as much as Anet would like to see.

So, what’s cheaper…making leveling more fun or giving people a scroll to skip the first 20 levels….?

I dunno. Since I deleted my original characters and made a couple of new ones 3 weeks ago, I guess a lot of people who do get the scrolls, probably are the ones who would use it least. I find that ironic.

Pennry.9215:

Gehenna.3625:

Well it occurred to me that there have been a number of people complaining that the game is not alt friendly and leveling is boring etc.

This gift makes me wonder if Anet has seen in their metrics that there’s an unusually large amount of people who have a level 80 and then a few low levels. Just yesterday I saw this picture on the forum. Some guy asking about the colouring on his armour. I saw he had 5 toons…1 level 80 and the rest under level 10…3 of them were level 2 I think.

Maybe that happens a lot more and that would explain their attempt to bring a lot of characters up to level 20 at least. Perhaps hey wanted to revitalise alts a bit. Of course there are also players here who didn’t need that…oh well, same gift for everyone, whether you want it or not.

They already have the XP rewards adjusted to make the first ten levels faster than any other ten levels. They already have five simple 1-15 zones, plus six cities, to get ahead of the curve of the higher content. I’m ignoring the impact crafting on has on “playing” a character while it levels.

I don’t think free levels in any game is a good idea, especially in one like GW2 where leveling is already so simple. If anything, I’d go more for just a skill points item.

I didn’t say it was a good idea, but I do wonder what could’ve moved them to give people an item like this. The only thing I can think of is that there are a lot of abandoned low level alts.

HiddenNick.7206:

Advent.6193:

No thank you. If I were a fan of subscription-based gaming, there are plenty of other options still out there.

Name 3 fantasy based MMO’s with subs.

WoW
LotRo
DDO
Aion
Rift
Tera

Most of them can be played f2p as well but still have sub options that give you more in game.

Yargesh.4965:

So you feel that you are not ‘special’ enough?

Nice stab below the belt…I think the word you’re looking for is “appreciated”.

Advent.6193:

Right, arjeldi. I never played GW1. Also never effed with a sub-MMO. Heard loads of stories from friends who did the latter, however. One complaint they typically had was that they felt rather obligated to play “keep-up,” due to expansions. Any “FUD” here is unintentional.

Now, I will agree on the RNG business. That is an area which could stand to see improvement. However, how far could it be improved without going into the territory of P2W/power creep?

There are a lot of people who complained about subs and feeling obligated to play in the sub games I played. The thing about it is that a lot of that was rather self inflicted. Nowadays it’s easier though because a lot of games have f2p options.

Still the feeling is there whether it makes sense or not. I always did find it funny how people can make themselves feel forced to play over 12 bucks but when they go out one evening spend 50 bucks or more on booze without flinching. It’s just odd how people work.

Is that scroll tradeable a least? Then you could sell it to people who haven’t been here a year yet and want to add some levels to a toon.

Well it occurred to me that there have been a number of people complaining that the game is not alt friendly and leveling is boring etc.

This gift makes me wonder if Anet has seen in their metrics that there’s an unusually large amount of people who have a level 80 and then a few low levels. Just yesterday I saw this picture on the forum. Some guy asking about the colouring on his armour. I saw he had 5 toons…1 level 80 and the rest under level 10…3 of them were level 2 I think.

Maybe that happens a lot more and that would explain their attempt to bring a lot of characters up to level 20 at least. Perhaps hey wanted to revitalise alts a bit. Of course there are also players here who didn’t need that…oh well, same gift for everyone, whether you want it or not.

Vayne.8563:

What’s the point of making them not account bound if everyone is going to get one anyway?

I’m not sure how this all works but I assume each character that is 1 year old as of creation date gets this.

I’m sure there are lots of people still who don’t have characters that are one year old but do what the mini for their collection now rather than 6 months from now or whatever.

But in GW1 everyone got random mini’s and that worked so much better, because they were collectible with different rarities….funny how they had a good idea once and failed to repeat it. Another one for that list.

I guess this scroll makes a low level instantly level 20.

The funny thing about that is, that it’s the higher levels that are the most pointless. It’s a very strange idea to do this. If they’d put in some boosters that give people double xp for everything (not just kills) people would probably have been much happier.

Well as box sales are dropping they need to encourage people to spend real money on gems. It’s been known from the start that the currency exchange is not just a matter of supply and demand but Anet setting thresholds. Don’t forget gems sales are key to this game’s success. The box sales alone will never be enough to maintain the game.

This game is brought out by Anet, they are part of NcSoft. NcSoft is coming out with a new game which is called Wildstart. It will have a sub, but they will allow you to earn your sub ingame as you can use the first month free with the box purchase to build up enough in game cash to pay for your sub. Of course you’d have to keep that up every month.

My point is, Anet went B2P with microtransactions. If it had been a totally convincing success, I am sure they would use it again. But instead we see new MMOs coming out with subs. Wildstar is just one of them.

My guess is that Anet did ok for themselves but NcSoft’s financial reports show that GW2 is not making much more money than Aion this year. Certainly not much more as you would expect from a new game. So I’m sure it’s good enough for GW2 but apparently not for new games coming out to adopt this strategy.

And as much as players who don’t buy gems are part of the overall experience, the OP is right that they don’t bring in cash but do bring in cost. This game will only survive long term if enough people spend cakitten the gemstore. And that’s a simply reality.

Honestly I like subs better because it’s a filter for gold sellers but also because you can expect more quality of a game. GW2 looks pretty but the limitations of the game are also clearly showing by now. And if a company has 2 games and one makes 20 million per quarter and the other 24 million but has double the players and accompanying costs, then the first game is a better deal for the company. It’s just an example, but sales and profit margins are cold necessities for companies and they only come with income.

arjeidi.2690:

Gehenna.3625:

That is a load of bull. The title is “hi anet, open world pve is a breeze” There is nothing unclear about that.

Dungeons are not open world pve
WvW is not open world pve
PvP is not open world pve

If people don’t get that, then sorry, that’s their problem.

And what is the intent with the thread? To make open world PvE more difficult. Despite there being a number of options that already provide more difficult content. If someone made a thread “Dungeons are too hard”, they’d get told to stick to open world pve.

Open world PvE has the following problems:

1) The game has too many levels and too many leveling zones with the same content in it. That causes repetition. If this is your preferred way of leveling, you’re kinda screwed.

2) Too many mobs (not all) are too easy to kill. This adds to the boredom of the already repetitious leveling as per point 1.

3) DE’s are the best xp for leveling. Some of them are impossible or very hard to solo, but most are dead easy especially when you have 2 or more players. Also you can run by events and kill two mobs in each event area and still get rewarded. On other occassions you’re running around trying to find events.

I agree with all 3 of your points. All 3.

1. How does the abundance of levels and leveling maps get solved/changed in any way by making open world pve more challenging? Now there’s the same number of maps and same number of levels except for some players its all more difficult.

2. Yes, they’re easy as fk to kill as long as you control the situation. Challenge ramps up when one of your bouncing attacks hits another mob, or when a mob spawns right near you. Sure, you can still win out, but simply winning a fight does not equate it to easy mode. I know you know this but I can’t get but get the feeling that you and pullnointer are looking at things as “I killed that mob, therefore it was easy.”

3. So there is challenging open world PvE then? 2 players certainly bring up the odds of success but you still have to win out. Unless you’re all twinked with market-bought/main-crafted gear.

All in all there are more factors that come into play, but the symbol for me of easy mode open world pve is that the game allows you to kill many mobs (again not all) with just an auto attack while standing still. It’s really not the only issue but it certainly epitomizes it.

I took my level 5 engineer out to do the same test you did. I fought four separate level 6 Ascalon Ghosts. I did as you described on your mesmer: Simply hit 1 and watched.

-I killed the archer with my health at around ~80 or so (my max is 520).
-I killed the warrior but as simply autoattacking is guaranteed win I did not run or heal or dodge. I managed to kill it while in downed state, while spamming Downed #1.
-I killed the Ascalonian Peasant by attacking it at range (pistol) having an advantage because it had to close in melee range. I killed it rather easily.
-I killed a second Ascalonian Peasant by running up to it in melee range first and then autoattacking with my pistol. I killed it with exactly 18hp left. So if he landed one more hit, I would’ve been downed.

So I won them all, but was practically downed twice. So I succeeded, I guess that means the game is too easy then. At level 5 I should have had to burn my dodges and heals just to get by.

But you think you represent most players. I think that’s a kittenumption and you’re just afraid that anything other people ask might make the game too hard for YOU. If you’d said that instead of hiding behind some imaginary multitude of players at least I would’ve thought you’d have an honest opinion.

Ha! I don’t think I represent anybody but myself. I know I don’t represent anybody but myself but I will speak for players who aren’t as good as you or even me. I’m a completely solo player and I have 100% world completion. I’ve “beat” the game as far as I’m concerned, and now I’ll do it on alts. Except for when people are doing an event nearby, my entire game time is solo. I know what open world PvE is. Maybe when you run with friends its mind-numbingly simple, but other than events the open world isn’t intended for serious group play. That, again, is what dungeons/wvw/pvp are for.

But make all the assumptions about me you want. Maybe its hard for you to understand someone having empathy for players who might have a harder time than you do. Can’t care about anyone but me, right? [/quote]

Ok that was a really good post by you well done indeed. And I mean it, it’s not a joke. I may not agree with every point but it’s a good post so I am just going to say thank you and leave it at that

Well you can go to the starter areas of other races as well. You can also complete the big cities (all the waypoints and poi’s etc) That gives some nice xp too. it’s up to you really. If you ever feel you are too low level for the content, just find another area with the same level range.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Gehenna.3625:

—snip—

Gehenna,

I am calm and have remained calm this entire time.

This conversation does seem to have reached it’s conclusion, though. You are not listening to any point that conflicts with your own and discard anything you don’t think is relevant, even if it is. For that reason I will bow out of this conversation as it is no longer worth my time. Brick walls make for terrible conversationalists, after all.

To everyone else,

I, like you, hope that PvE stays similar in difficulty, and that ANet does not bow to the whims of the elitists. Let us all hope that the game will remain accessible to the greatest number of players. Let us hope that the game will try more to court those that want a good game over those that want everything to be a challenge to the detriment of others.

Well, perhaps you should apply to become a saint.

You don’t listen to anything I say, so you’re the pot calling the kettle black at best.

To everybody else:

You are free to ask for what you want. It is ok to have a different opinion. Don’t let other people tell you different or twist your words into something you didn’t say.

I hope Anet listens to everybody here and bases their decisions on both sides of the story, not just mine. But I do hope they at least understand they also lose players because the world is too big and easy and leads to boredom for some of us.

Mirta.5029:

1. A person that has difficulty in a 1-15 map can not change. There’s NO way for them to drop the difficulty down. The same goes for people that finish every 1-15 map, but can’t progress further. You CAN challenge yourself. .

I disagree. People can learn to get better. They can change. It may not be 100% true for everyone but you can learn to be better and you must anyway as the game progresses.

Mirta.5029:

2. I simply could not finish GW1 alone. However GW1 was not an MMO, but rather a CORPG and games with a single player mode on average are so much harder, because the man goal is to reach the end of the game, while in an MMO reaching level 80 is only the beginning.

GW1 was just an example. I have played SWTOR and Aion for example, but you know the comparisons don’t really matter. GW2 is just not working for me, which saddens me as I thoroughly enjoyed GW1. Part of the problem is that combat is meaningless in this game. If I can kill a lot of mobs with one button and waiting, that’s just a big symptom for me.

Mirta.5029:

3. You list more things than just the difficulty. Chances are if they upped the difficulty you would still not play. So not only do you not really like the game, but are trying to exclude other people from completing content that they can complete and enjoy.

Yep there is more to it than just the difficulty, but the difficulty in open world pve is the subject here. It is indeed just part of the picture. But I could also enjoy the game ignoring the story and just enjoying messing around in the zones, but for that the combat needs to be more interesting for me.

And I am not trying to exclude other people. That’s just your assumptions and fears going mad in your head. It seems that you are concerned about just a few parts in each zones that you find hard to complete. Those don’t need to be harder for me either. But it would make the game worth giving another shot if the leveling zones were more interesting combat in general.

Mirta.5029:

pullnointer.1476:

the game sort of prevents him from doing that by making mobs give virtually no xp.

So is it about exp or challenge?

Gehenna.3625:

Oh so you are more important then?

Listen buddy, when the game becomes to easy and boring it locks people out just the same. Not because it’s impossible to play but because you don’t want to kill your brain.

And I really don’t believe that if mobs that can be killed with just auto attack also require you to cast a heal spell once and maybe one other attack is too difficult for most people…really.

You have ways to make the game harder for yourself, but you don’t want to, instead you want to lock people out of content to make yourself feel more comfortable.
No MMO is kitten PVE mode. None. There’s no reason to change the PVE in this one either.

I disagree. You are asking me to change, but so can you. I am not locking people out of content. That’s your assumption. It’s just not true. It’s what YOU fear, it’s not what I am proposing.

I have played quite a few games and always have lots of alts. This game is the one exception, because it is boring as hell to me. In GW1 I have 19 characters for example. So yes, of course I want things to change but it goes much further. This is just part of it. Too many levels, too many zones with the same stuff, boring story, poor voice acting etc. It all adds to the boredom.

I stopped playing again because it bores me. So I am excluded. You worry about people being locked out because of perceived difficulty, but don’t care about people who are locked out because it just bores the crap out of them. So tell my why I would care about what you want if you don’t care about what I want?

SynfulChaot.3169:

Open-world PvE can, and often is, group play as well. Don’t forget that fact.

Incorrect, there is no group play in open world pve. There is zerg content but it does not equate to a team of a limited amount of players in an instance. That is entirely different.

SynfulChaot.3169:

And your vehemence when ‘asking’ for this change and the way in which you respond to anyone with an opposing view makes your ‘request’ more akin to a demand. Thus I responded to your tone over your words.

My vehemence has not been in asking, it has been in defending against people putting words in my mouth.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Yes, if you single attack everything you’ll have little challenge. Take on more than one at once. Take on a group. Make your challenge. Again, if you are incapable of finding places to try this I can recommend a long list of places that will kick your kitten (self-censored) if you over-aggro, and even sometimes when you don’t.

This topic is taken out of context now. I can understand that but this is just a symptom of the total problem. But to me it’s a clear example of what’s wrong with open world pve in my view.

My problem arises more when I find myself traveling and having to fight mobs because they cc my movement and then have to do this mind numbing fight again. That has to do with their aggro range as well. It’s just a part of the total problem but it just show how easy mobs are in this game.

SynfulChaot.3169:

And I’ve not lied once. Again, I’m responding to your tone, not your words. You don’t want me to think you’re being demanding then stop responding in a tone that says you are.

Well my tone is against you and not Anet. That should be abundantly clear. I am not saying at all that “Anet must do this” and “Anet must do that” all over my posts. No I am saying “stop putting words in my mouth” and “I never said that”. That’s what I am fighting here, not Anet.

The minute you stop doing that, you’ll see this calm down instantly.

arjeidi.2690:

You keep insisting the topic is open world PvE and that the other modes don’t come into the equation, except that severely distorts the discussion. By temporarily putting other modes aside it makes the situation look as though no content is challenging.

That is a load of bull. The title is “hi anet, open world pve is a breeze” There is nothing unclear about that.

Dungeons are not open world pve
WvW is not open world pve
PvP is not open world pve

If people don’t get that, then sorry, that’s their problem.

Open world PvE has the following problems:

1) The game has too many levels and too many leveling zones with the same content in it. That causes repetition. If this is your preferred way of leveling, you’re kinda screwed.

2) Too many mobs (not all) are too easy to kill. This adds to the boredom of the already repetitious leveling as per point 1.

3) DE’s are the best xp for leveling. Some of them are impossible or very hard to solo, but most are dead easy especially when you have 2 or more players. Also you can run by events and kill two mobs in each event area and still get rewarded. On other occassions you’re running around trying to find events.

All in all there are more factors that come into play, but the symbol for me of easy mode open world pve is that the game allows you to kill many mobs (again not all) with just an auto attack while standing still. It’s really not the only issue but it certainly epitomizes it.

But you think you represent most players. I think that’s a kittenumption and you’re just afraid that anything other people ask might make the game too hard for YOU. If you’d said that instead of hiding behind some imaginary multitude of players at least I would’ve thought you’d have an honest opinion.

SynfulChaot.3169:

snip for length

I didn’t agree with your example of dungeons because they are group play. That’s a completely different type of context so the example just doesn’t apply. People keep bringing dungeons into the subject but the topic is still open world pve and you cannot compare the two.

The comment that I “shouldn’t ask for something” is utterly arrogant. You do not get to decide what others ask for. I have the right to ask for it and Anet has the right to ignore it or do something with it. But don’t tell me I shouldn’t ask this. That’s entirely condescending and uncalled for. You are not my parent.

And again, I was clear in this I thought, I am not looking for places with a challenge. Of course I can find those, but what I want is to be able to go through leveling zones just like everybody else but not feel like it doesn’t matter what I do, I will win. That’s so not satisfying. So yes I am asking that they take out auto attack mobs and make my character’s skill bar have at least some meaning while leveling. It’s preposterous that one skill on automatic is enough to kill many mobs. I have the right to feel that way and the right to ask for change.

You don’t have the right to tell me what I may or may not ask, however…try as you might, that’s just the most ridiculous thing anybody said in this thread.

And again stop lying….everytime you say I demand this YOU LIE. I ask it, but I do not demand it. I already said that and here you go saying it again.

Please stop lying ok. You may have your opinion, express it, disagree with me, but don’t put words in my mouth that I did not use. That’s just dishonest.

arjeidi.2690:

Gehenna.3625:

arjeidi.2690:

Gehenna.3625:

Mirta.5029:

And it will. Maybe not many, but it will, because there ARE players like these in the game.

And there are players that find this too easy. Please explain why you are more important than they are.

“Too easy” doesn’t lock people out of it. “Too difficult” does. That’s why.

Oh so you are more important then?

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you wanted to exclude some players.

Being bored doesn’t prevent you from doing something. You can decide its not worth it, or that you don’t want to, but it is not impossible for you to do it. Being too difficult does make it impossible.

And you may consider turning the difficulty from 1 to 2, but that’s purely subjective. For all you know someone out there finds it to be at 6 or 7 right now. Your attitude is “too bad” while you crank it up to 9 (on their scale).

So you don’t like PvP, or WvW, and Dungeons don’t suit you… so basically you don’t want the difficult content the game already offers. So changes need to be made that will affect everyone?

By keeping things to easy you exclude other players just the same.

The topic here is open world PvE so I exclude the other types of gameplay since they are OFF TOPIC.

I said dungeons are not as viable for leveling, I didn’t say I didn’t like dungeons.

Dante.1508:

pullnointer.1476:

Kronus.6048:

just curious, are you a warr/guard?

I have done open world pve on every class

Have you actually done PvE lately because the stuff has gotten a lot harder, on my guardian i’m constantly being downed by krait and bandits now, three krait equals death if you cant remove debuffs etc…they last up to a full minute bleeding you cripple etc..

Bandits/Pirates all have Torment now which when removed goes back on instantly..

I leveled a guardian recently. There were a few places that were trickier. Not denying that you can die, especially against bigger groups, but the problem you describe sounds more like overaggro and not mob difficulty.

One of the things that makes leveling annoying in this game is that mobs seem to have a larger aggro range than I am used to from other games. That makes it tedious. But you can still lure krait and fight one or two at a time. Just takes a bit of doing.

arjeidi.2690:

Gehenna.3625:

Mirta.5029:

And it will. Maybe not many, but it will, because there ARE players like these in the game.

And there are players that find this too easy. Please explain why you are more important than they are.

“Too easy” doesn’t lock people out of it. “Too difficult” does. That’s why.

Oh so you are more important then?

Listen buddy, when the game becomes to easy and boring it locks people out just the same. Not because it’s impossible to play but because you don’t want to kill your brain.

And I really don’t believe that if mobs that can be killed with just auto attack also require you to cast a heal spell once and maybe one other attack is too difficult for most people…really.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I’m not jumping on any bandwagon. I’m asking both sides to look at the issue from the opposing side.

We’ll see.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Even a slight change in difficulty will drive many away.

Prove it. I call bullkitten on this. I think it will improve the game and attract more players than it will lose. But I think that, I cannot prove it, that’s why I don’t make such definite statements like you just did.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Look at AC before and after the dungeon redesign. The difficulty change was not immense. It was pretty small, honestly. A skilled team can actually clear paths 1 and 3 faster than before. But it still decimated the number of players that run it. You also used to frequently see sub-80 charas run it. Now it is an extreme rarity. All that from a slight difficulty change.

Ok we are talking about OPEN WORLD PVE. Get it? Dungeons are not part of the topic especially because they are group content and that doesn’t apply. So try again.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Now if you made a similiar slight difficulty change to open-world PvE it would affect a far, far greater number of people. And many would leave for a game more conducive to what they are looking for. And they would feel betrayed by ANet for no longer delivering on what was originally promised.

Again you do not know if many would leave. You are again presenting ASSUMPTIONS as if they were factual.

I’ve tried 3 mobs this evening for Mira. I killed all of them by auto attack only. No other skills or anything. Would it be so hard if those mobs caused you to have to use your heal skill once and maybe move out of the way once or heaven forbid, dodge?

SynfulChaot.3169:

I, personally, don’t do a lot of open-world PvE these days as I’ve already done it all and it doesn’t provide a great challenge. If I want challenge, I’ll seek it in dungeons and elsewhere. As I suggest for you to try as well. But don’t ask for the only easy place to be made harder because you want a challenge.

I am not asking for a big challenge as much as I ask them to take out automatic wins with auto attack. And this “only easy place” is most of the game.

Oh and I can most certainly ask for it to be made harder. I live in a free country where I am allowed to do this. Even though I am onl asking that basic mobs require more than auto attack and can be reduced in HP as a trade off.

SynfulChaot.3169:

You want a challenge. I get that. I really do. So go seek that challenge. Don’t make things harder for other players because you aren’t willing to make/find your own challenges. Most of those players aren’t asking that all challenging content be nerfed so they can do it. So please don’t demand that their preferred content is buffed so you might feel more of a challenge.

When I want a real challenge I play other games. It’s not a problem. But what I am asking here is not a big challenge but to not fall asleep during lethal combat.

And it’s what I want, I am not demanding anything. That again is an assumption. I have the right to want something and to express it. People can have different opinions but I don’t like it when people make up stuff and then get upset about what they made up instead of what I actually said.

Darkicon.7950:

pullnointer.1476:

Darkicon.7950:

I’m gonna go zerg champs in Queensdale and complain how easy this game is but continue to avoid Orr like the plague because the temple events are too difficult now…

What you guys want is not more difficult content. You got that. Go to Orr. What you want is better loot for your time and risk. That’s why everyone is zerging Queensdale champs. Good loot with low risk.

you don’t know me, stop assuming things about me.

That wasn’t directed at you specifically. Stop trying to start fights on the internet…

Doesn’t really matter to me because Orr is basically endgame stuff and not leveling stuff. My issue is mostly that leveling is boring and that MOST open world content is easy, not everything.

Orr is different anyways. I call it annoying more than difficult. What makes certain mobs hard in this game is the cheap mechanics they use, but that’s an entirely different discussion and again this area is more for endgame farming. There’s a whole continent of boredom before you get to the continent of annoyance really.

SynfulChaot.3169:

For all those crying out for harder open-word PvE, you’re all forgetting something important. By significantly raising the difficulty of open-world PvE content, you’ll lose far more potential players than you’ll pick up new ones.

Before you jump on the imaginary bandwagon here. There is a difference between making open world PvE less easy and significantly raising the difficulty. Others like Mira try to do the same thing.

I hope you get that there are more numbers between 1 and 10. And if I ask for it to go from 1 to 2 I am not asking for 9 or 10. So please don’t blow up what we are saying here.

Oh and how many people you will gain as opposed to the amount lost…well, thank you for that massive ASSUMPTION, because you have absolutely no evidence to support that claim. Just your feeling, nothing more. Especially since you are also instantly exaggerating what people like myself are asking for, which is not what you fear and assume.

Pandeh.5248:

They have around 300 employed. Believe it or not.

Sure but they aren’t all game developers. There’s a lot of support staff as well, so who knows really?

Mirta.5029:

Same question back. Why are you more important than they are?

They are not, but you are the one attacking people for wanting something different. That wasn’t me, so I have to wonder why you are so viciously defending against something that isn’t actually being said here.

Mirta.5029:

From my point of view I’m not doing that

Simple example:

I say I want this game to be less mindnumbingly easy.

You say I want to make this game hard.

That’s not the same. So that’s being dishonest. Especially after I repeatedly told you I don’t ask for the game to be tough as nails you insist on implying I do. Again that’s being dishonest.

Mirta.5029:

hatchling is not normal. Do it on a normal worm.

You say that but don’t explain it. What is normal according to you. I see a level 11 mob that’s red. That seems pretty normal to me.

Gehenna.3625:

I can’t do it at level 30-50 because I only have a level 80 and then the level 11, but I have done it at those levels as well. Just can’t give specifics anymore as I am no longer in that range.

Mirta.5029:

you’re leveling that character up, are you not?

No, I am not. Because of this very subject. I just stopped because I got bored leveling.

Edit: I couldn’t find any other worms in the level 11 area. I just looked, except veterans which are not normal.

So I attacked a level 11 Icebrood wolf instead for your sake. Worked as well with auto attack.

Edit 2: Just killed a level 11 son of svanir also with just auto attack.

I think that will do.

Vayne.8563:

superbeast.9873:

People still replying to this? GW2 is terrible. Get over it.

Guild Wars 2 is a good game with some decent potential that’s still evolving. It’s not terrible…you simply don’t like it. And that’s okay.

But the one to get over it is you. If the game is so terrible, why do you feel it’s necessary to hang around the forums and tell that to people who actually like it?

Unless you find this fun. I think you’d be spending the time playing a game you enjoy.

Obviously that was his opinion. If he thinks game is terrible, well, then that’s what he thinks and so the game is terrible from his point of view.

You wonder why he posts here if he hates the game. I wonder why people post here when they love the game. Surely you post so much here that one could wonder if you actually still have the time to play this game

Sounds like a topic for the lore forum.

Mirta.5029:

And it will. Maybe not many, but it will, because there ARE players like these in the game.

And there are players that find this too easy. Please explain why you are more important than they are.

Mirta.5029:

So you want mobs to be easier?

No. The length of the fight is not the only factor in difficulty.

Mirta.5029:

1. Thanks for the insult
2. You seem to have missed the point. You’re attacking a hatchling not even a full worm. It’s almost the same as one hitting a critter and saying “see? Pve is easy!” and like I said go and do that on a level 30-40-50 and do it with a normal mob, not a hatchling and even with a hatchling you almost died!

1) I am just exasperated because you refuse to respond to what I actually say and you just invent your own stories, things I certainly never said. I called you thick because you keep implying things that I never said. I wish you’d stop that.

2) No, you are missing the point. I am saying that generic mobs of my own level can be killed with auto attack. I never stated anything different. You said you NEVER killed a mob with auto attack and therefore chose not to believe me. Now I did a little test on a random mob, the first level 11 I ran into was that one. It is a NORMAL mob.

I can’t do it at level 30-50 because I only have a level 80 and then the level 11, but I have done it at those levels as well. Just can’t give specifics anymore as I am no longer in that range.

Again these hatchlings are normal mobs in that area and I am only level 11 myself so it’s a fair comparison. It doesn’t matter though, does it, because no matter what example I give, you will find a way out.

I’ve done it and it is that simple. You just don’t WANT to admit to it and that’s the only problem here.

Mirta.5029:

And why do you think that is? Because a level 35 dungeon on a level 35 is really hard.

That still means that dungeons are not a viable option for leveling, which is what my point is. Thank you for supporting my point.

Mirta.5029:

Almost no MMO has hard open world content. Simply because open world content is something everyone should be able to complete. If someone else struggles, but you don’t, that does not mean that the difficulty should be raised up.

Again you are being dishonest. I said less mindnumbingly easy. I NEVER said open world content should be hard. That’s YOUR invention. Can you please get that?

And all other MMOs that I’ve played do not have open world content that’s this easy and certainly not so much of it. You just made that up.

Mirta.5029:

I’m not accusing. I’m just explaining that there are players that have difficulty with pve as it is.

No you’re not. You’re saying that even a small difficulty increase in generic open world mobs will destroy the game for many players.

Mirta.5029:

Were you playing a warrior by any chance?

Nope. I told you I leveled a guardian and I gave you the example of a mesmer.

Mirta.5029:

All 7 of my level 80s were leveled up by repeating zone exploration. Normally if you’re leveling with gathering and zone exploration alone by the time you’re 80 you should have about 65% of the world explored and about 10-12G in your pocket that should enable you to gear up, or at least partially gear up.

Not for me, I generally have around 50% explored and I had more than 20 gold.

Mirta.5029:

And I’m telling you that making fights faster would make the game too hard for people, because some people already struggle with pve as it is.

With faster I mean less long, not faster paced.

Mirta.5029:

wait, so a hatchling was almost killing you and leaving you with 20% health, but apparently that’s fine, because you still auto-attacked it?

Are you really this thick? Sorry but you are just not reading it seems. I am saying it’s NOT fine. It shouldn’t be that I can just click auto attack once and let the computer do the rest.

Get it…it’s not fine. I am just proving the point that it can be done and my point is that it’s ridiculous if I can kill mobs by just clicking auto attack once and wait. I did not cast a single other spell or skill. I did not move or dodge. Just let my character stand there and auto attack did the rest. The mob died and I had 20% of my health left.

It requires 0 skill to do that. That’s my problem.

Stooperdale.3560:

There is a big gulf in the skill level between an experienced player and a new player. New players find open world PvE challenging so it is pitched at the right level for them. That’s good because that’s the environment in which new players learn the game. Experienced players find open world PvE easy but it doesn’t matter since they can skip the open world and do PvP, WvW, dungeons, or anything else.

Not really, PvP and WvW were never my thing. I am more of a PvE’er and dungeons don’t start before level 30 and then it’s just one dungeon for every 10 levels. And try to find groups who accept people below level 80 for dungeons. So it’s not that viable an option either.

No, people want to be able to just play along since solo content can always be done as opposed to group content and making it too easy is just not necessary either.

Right, so I just logged in to do a little test for Mira.

I played my level11 mesmer in level 10 blue gear. I found level 11 ice worm hatchlings in the shiverpeaks area. I killed a couple of them, while using only auto attack. I won both times. I had about 240 health left both times.

I used the greatsword for this.

I killed a few more mobs in the area. I found that level 9-10 were even easier and level 12 a bit tougher but not requiring much to kill.

Different classes will have more or less difficulty with things but overall it’s clear to me that killing mobs of your level or less with auto attack is very much possible and not an exaggeration. My character is show below for reference.

It is most certainly possible to still level while being over level as someone else suggested if you find it too difficult right now, but I am really baffled that you never managed to kill a mob with just auto attack. Perhaps the real reason is because you never tried.

Mirta.5029:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh and what would I do other than open world when on my second character I was already bored before level 10… Not much else to do then.

choices:
1. Craft to 35 and farm AC (AC on a level 35 is extremely hard because you only have 2 stats on your gear versus 3)
2. Skip the places that are your own level and go to higher level places. Here’s the difference – when running on foot to Arah I’ve noticed that if you’re level 2 and the enemy is level 13 they turn purple and one shot you. 10 levels difference makes a regular mob into a legendary.
However a person that has trouble in this game can not do anything to make himself more powerful.

Crafting sucks. It shouldn’t give xp at all but that’s a different subject.

I am not looking for the kind of fight you propose. I do not want LONGER fights. If anything I think general mobs have too many hp and too little tactics. I want to shift that balance. Attacking mobs that are 10 levels higher takes forever. I am not looking for that.

Please Mira. You are being unfair here. You accuse me of all kinds of things I never said. They are fears that you have that you project on me.

You never were able to auto attack a mob to death? Well I did do it, various times. What can I say. And no I don’t buy yellow gear every 2 levels. I bought mostly greens every 6 levels but also use karma vendors and drops for gear. When you do some gathering and sell the mats, you can make plenty to gear up.

If you waste all your cash on crafting, well, that’s your choice but I prefer to be decently geared…not ubergeared.

Please, just stop inventing stuff in your head that I never said. I don’t want this game to be too hard for most people at all, but I think more people can handle quicker fights that just require you to do things you might already be doing….Difference is that you may not realise it’s not required now. I also don’t want to make the things that are challenging now, even more challenging. All those ideas are ghosts in your mind and not what I am saying here.

arjeidi.2690:

Here’s what Mirta and I are getting at though: Just because we’re capable of doing something does not mean it’s fun to do it. I’m capable of getting the skill point at the temple of Balth solo with not a single soul to assist me. I did it, and hated every second of it. Challenging? Sure if you want to call it that. I call it frustrating tedium.

Yes but you don’t know if making combat a bit more difficult is not fun. The reasons seems that you only see extremes. Easy or Too Hard. I am saying there’s stuff in between and you might actually like it.

arjeidi.2690:

I don’t play GW2 to push myself to higher limits. I’ll go volunteer at an animal shelter if I need something to feel good about. I just want to spend time playing a game I spent years being excited for, to relax and chill and enjoy my time not working. I don’t need to be pushed to my limits, that will have the opposite effect.

Perhaps, but is what you want more important than someone else? Mira seems to speak out of fear, some sort of doom scenarios that were aren’t even suggesting. It’s not being pushed to limits. Not sure what you want with animal shelters because you still play to feel good about it. You just have different interests perhaps. You just assume that they are opposite with mine and I say that it’s not that black and white.

Honestly the animal shelter comparison is insulting a best. It’s not about feeling good or doing good deeds, but about not falling asleep during a fight to the death.

arjeidi.2690:

I recognize you’re not saying that the entire game needs to be turned up to difficulty 11, but options for more difficult content do exist in the game. I find it to be more reasonable to request improvements or additions in those areas, rather than to change the open world. You don’t even need to go through 50% of the open world to hit level 80, so just hit 80 and enjoy your more difficult content (dungeons, fractals, wvw, pvp).

Well at least you recognise that. But to use your scale, I am asking to get the difficulty from 1 to 2 and you guys are freaking out because apparently 11 is 1+1 =2. Well it’s not. The number 2 is a looooooong way from 11. I am not asking 11 or 10 or 9. I am simply asking to notch it up a bit so it’s not mindnumbingly boring.

It’s you who assume I am asking for 11 or something close to it.

Oh and what would I do other than open world when on my second character I was already bored before level 10… Not much else to do then.

Elothar.4382:

First, all the statements about the game being “faceroll easy” or “excruciatingly hard” must be taken in reference to individuals and their skill levels. I hate to break it to you…but open world PVE is not easy….for me. Having leveled 6 characters to 80…I died a lot…cursed a lot…and hung my head in utter frustration a lot. It was in no way easy for me. But, it was not so hard that I want if nerfed. On the other hand, several of my friends quit early on because it was just too much for them.

We are talking open world here, not the story line missions which tend to be a bit harder. Just to make sure.

I played GW2 the first few months it was out and quit because leveling was boring and good looking skins hard to find. Oh and endgame was missing.

So I came back 3 weeks ago. I had deleted my old characters and started anew. No regrets on that. So I leveled my guardian to 80 in a couple of weeks time and I noticed that the game was easier to play. It was a noticeable difference after that much time.

So tell me. If I have a character on level with decent gear, what skill level are we talking about when I could, in many cases, just hit auto attack and let the computer do the work for me? Sure some mobs I might have to cast a heal once just to be sure and then back to auto attack. No dodging, not stepping out of circles (not needed) just waiting for the computer to finish him off with auto attack.

Honestly, what does that have to do with individual skill levels?

pullnointer.1476:

Gehenna.3625:

pullnointer.1476:

the ai could be improved for sure, but pve is going to be bound by the limits of ai in every game. I don’t think the game mechanics themselves really limit how difficult one can make an encounter. we just accept the framework and do the best we can, same applies to anet when designing the encounters. I do agree that we could use more depth in pve though(mechanics-wise). resource management(energy) perhaps?

Oh the game mechanics most definitely have an effect on it. I am convinced that the combat system and lack of roles hugely affect the way mobs work.

obviously, but within that framework, we can still have varying levels of difficulty.

Well, in theory I would agree with you. But I’ve seen at a few instances how this game has alreay been made easier than it was in the beginning. The difference because of some tune downs made it from extremely hard to solo, to dead easy. I am really starting to wonder if the way this game has been designed allows for much middle ground. I would think so but I am just baffled that Anet have not managed to find that ground. That just makes me wonder if in GW2 it is actually possible.

pullnointer.1476:

the ai could be improved for sure, but pve is going to be bound by the limits of ai in every game. I don’t think the game mechanics themselves really limit how difficult one can make an encounter. we just accept the framework and do the best we can, same applies to anet when designing the encounters. I do agree that we could use more depth in pve though(mechanics-wise). resource management(energy) perhaps?

Oh the game mechanics most definitely have an effect on it. I am convinced that the combat system and lack of roles hugely affect the way mobs work.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Gehenna.3625:

Now, I know, some people fear that they won’t be accepted in groups if people could see their gear etc, but it’s so easy to get exotic gear together that it really is pure laziness or lack of interest if you don’t have it. Is it fair then to burden others with your lack of gear or willingness to learn because you feel entitled to doing dungeons no matter how much other people will have to make up for it?

It’s not just a case of the gear’s rarity though. There’s stats and builds to take into consideration as well.

Someone could have a sound build and utilise it brilliantly, and still get excluded because it’s not, say, zerker gear and a pure burst damage build. It’s a case of ‘play my way’.

These people who discriminate like this don’t understand the difference between ‘viable’ and ‘optimal’.

This, for me, is the reason I’m against an Inspect option.

I understand that but I always wonder, if people only want optimal and get upset if I don’t have it….are those the kind of people I want to play with in the first place. For me it makes it easier to weed out the kind of people I don’t like to hang out with.

In essence you are saying that you are ok with playing with people who discriminate as long as they don’t get the chance to discriminate. I find that a tad hypocritical.

Personally I understand people who are like that, but I don’t share their view. I am happy to be able to avoid them or them me, because I know optimal gear is not needed outside high level fractals.

But the point is that the downside of not being able to see gear are definitely present as well. Neither system is perfect but I prefer brutal honesty over sneaky leechers.

Mirta.5029:

I’m so against it, because the OP wants the open world to be hard. You know, the place made for leveling?

I think you exaggerate a little. I think the OP doesn’t want the open world to be so easy that it puts you to sleep, which is what it does now for a number of players, myself included. I could kill the vast majority of mobs with auto attack and me sitting back to sip my coffee. That has it’s charm but it gets old. I wasn’t even in danger of dying. I don’t need the open world to be tough, certainly not at lower levels but a bit more dangerous, with an actual chance of dying if you let go of your keyboard would be nice.

Mirta.5029:

In order to cater to all groups they should open more dungeons similar to arah and very high level fractals. They could add raid like content, except for 5 people.

This doesn’t help the problem the OP is describing. He feels leveling is boring because it’s too easy. Adding more dungeons doesn’t help much there. As a sidenote, there are people who duo or even solo some of the Arah paths. That should tell you something.

Mirta.5029:

What I disagree with is making the open world tough as nails. If we can’t handle some stuff in the game, at least let us to level up and kitten around in the open world.

See, that is your fear talking. I never said that the open world should be as hard as you describe. Just not as easy as it is now.

Mirta.5029:

And I also reacted that way because you said that players should be pushed and forced to adapt. Some of us are actually at the peak of our skill level and we’re just not that good, but we have accepted it. Making the whole game harder and harder would prevent us from playing it.

I didn’t actually say that, but I do think that people can do more than they think and that they won’t find out unless there is a challenge.

You are afraid of things that are not being suggested here. My advice is to read a little better and not make it worse in your mind. There haven’t been enough specifics.

See, if there is a mob…say a dredge. And I attack it with auto attack and let go of the keyboard and it dies before it kills me, then the computer won and not me as a player. I can do this a lot while leveling because I stay decently geared. I am not the type who runs around in level 20 gear at level 35 for example.

You can’t tell me that that is already the limit of your ability, to buy gear from the TP, go out, hit auto attack and sit back. If that’s already the max, then it does make me wonder.

If anything I would like mobs in general to have less hp so you can kill them quicker but that you actually have to pay attention a bit to what you do. Not extreme long and difficult fights but short fights where if you only hit auto attack and wait, you will die and that it takes actual active participation to kill the mob. Not extreme difficulty but just not so mind numbingly easy as most mobs are.

The only ones that can give you a bit of trouble are the ones with knock back…it stops your auto attack you see.

A lot of people are just undergeared and that has nothing to do with skill, but more understanding of the game.

notebene.3190:

I understand your point, and agree. The OP was talking about how the game is casual and there is ‘no’ obligation or responsibility to login and play. That’s the part I don’t get.

But to your point, you are right, for the same reason, and to my point. It shouldn’t be about obligation and responsibility. It should be about enjoyment. I think it’s a shame the speed with which things are being thrown at us and then, more importantly, taken away. It ‘creates’ a sense of, at least, obligation and responsibility to not miss out on things, which the OP thinks is missing, but in a completely different regard.

Well, I think what he means is that traditionally in online games there is group play. In GW2 that exists only in sPvP and dungeons I guess where you really make a team. In group play people are responsible for their part. So in a trinity game, you have healers, tanks and dps. The content has a certain level of difficulty and as a team you have to beat that content. Everybody plays a role and is accountable for their part in it. If one person doesn’t play well, this could cause the group to fail. You can then figure out where it went wrong and improve.

In GW2 there are no roles. If you go into a dungeon with 5 people, you can’t really see what goes wrong and why. If you bring crap gear, no one knows because you can’t check it. If someone doesn’t do more than just auto attack a bit and lets the rest of the group do all the work, you can’t really tell half the time either. So, if things go wrong, there’s no way of telling and this means that people either don’t improve or leeches continue to let others do all the work for them.

Would you like it if one or two people in your team were basically making the dungeon more difficult for you? Would you be upset if the repair bills for your armour ar actually because someone willfully screws things up?

Remember the discussions about people in MF gear? Basically someone in full MF gear is a burden on the team because his combat stats are less, but gains the most from it because of his MF rating. That’s just not right. And GW2 enables leeches because of the lack of transparency that is part in this game. Perhaps this is also why finally they announced changes in how MF is to be done in the near future.

Now, I know, some people fear that they won’t be accepted in groups if people could see their gear etc, but it’s so easy to get exotic gear together that it really is pure laziness or lack of interest if you don’t have it. Is it fair then to burden others with your lack of gear or willingness to learn because you feel entitled to doing dungeons no matter how much other people will have to make up for it?

This is the consequence of not being accountable so no one can hold you responsible for your part. In team work that is a strange thing really. People can just run around and be total idiots and nobody can really point a finger at them.

Just think of the internet and how people behave because they are anonymous. The way GW2 makes people even more anonymous in their in game behaviour. On the one hand it’s nice that nobody can notice certain things, but on the other hand it’s very open to abuse.

Trust me, if you’re in a trinity game and the tank doesn’t use his taunts, everybody knows he didn’t. If the healer doesn’t heal, people will notice it…if the dps are slacking, it will be noticed (enrage timers for example). Now I am not saying that trinity games are the solution, but I am saying that GW2 is set up so that nobody can be held responsible or accountable for their part.

You can do whatever you want and it doesn’t matter. Some people like that idea, some people find it reprehensible as it teaches people they can leech off others without any risk of consequence. It can ruin the fun of others that way.