Guild Wars 2

A game should have some long term goals for people to look at. A legendary weapon is exactly that.

The idea is that people can play this game for months or years and can collect such a weapon over time. The real problem is that some people just must have this weapon now.

So, they are willing to grind themselves silly to get it and Anet said: No, that’s not what the idea is here.

This game isn’t about grind like other MMO’s. Just cause it looks like something doesn’t mean it is. In other MMO’s grind is needed to get the gear so you can do high level content.

You can do every bit of content in this game without legendary stuff. There’s the difference.

The OP put a list of endgame goals. And this is typically the traditional MMO view. He looks at the options he recognises and categorises them according to the traditional MMO view.
GW2 has collectibles that require some grind but they aren’t needed for your gaming. They are things you can collect over a period of time. As you do stuff and just enjoy going around the world doing events, completing maps, gather mats for crafting, doing crafting, guild activities, helping players you run into etc. That is GW2 endgame and as you collect stuff and gain cash you can look into getting karma gear or run dungeons for dungeon gear.

But you don’t need it now. People are crying over wants as if they are needs. Sure, if karma gear and legendary weapons were a must have or you couldn’t do Arah or something like that, it would be a different story. But that’s not the case. Exotic gear is plenty fine and easy enough to get. The TP has exotic gear for2-3g a piece and when you get to 80 you should be too far off for at least 1 piece of karma gear and run a dungeon a few times and you can get an exotic piece there.

Want the whole set? That’s want again and not need. That can take longer. It’s just a matter of having a little patience.

When you are not this patient and want it all now and need more content cause there’s no gear progression etc….this is just not the right game for you. It’s just how it is.

Moakist.5268:

Replying and quoting now seems to be bugged.

Just because a player isn’t being affected by DR doesn’t mean that their is not a bug in the system. Everytime ANet “fixes” DR, we find out that there’s still bugs affecting players.

There are pleanty of examples on these boards, as well as lengthy videos, spreadsheets and screenshots over on the Reddit Boards (where you may get downvoted but you won’t have your post deleted).

My personal experience is logging in. Hitting three DIFFERENT events, maybe killing a few things as I’m running down the road and then bam, being hit with DR – and not on one character – on my entire account.

There is way too much griping on the boards, and too many bugs still floating around for me to think well gee, this is all made up. It’s not perception, it’s happening.

The outcry is because ANet is being completely silent on the matter.

The problem is that there are a few issues being discussed at the same time.

DR in general
Bugs with DR

These are two separate issues that are mixed up time and again.

Also the stand point of Anet on this has been clear. They have addressed it. The fact that you don’t like their answer and are not responding to each additional thread about yet again the same stuff only indicates that people have issues, not that Anet is silent.

They made their statement, what more is there to say? If there are bugs then report them. Then you can see where that takes you.

But nothing will be accomplished by starting another 10 threads about the same subject, not because Anet didn’t answer but because you didn’t like the answer…that’s also two separate things.

Anet advertised and gave interviews about GW2 during the last few years. One clear element in this was that the game would not be about gear progression.

So you live in a cave, buy a new MMO and are surprised and disappointed to find out that this game isn’t about gear progression? I don’t mind that you like gear progression as all the other MMOs provide….but how could you miss this colossal point that Guild Wars is not about gear progression?

Afraid to check my playtime…but definitely worth it.

I have it more and more often that I log in and reply to a thread. As soon as I replied I can only see an empty reply field to create a new post and I cannot actually see the thread again until I log out and in again or make an additional post.

I also have it often that I only get the permalink symbol and can no longer quote post. This also happens after posting initially that the quote and report buttons are missing.

Obviously there is something more going on here.

I can do 5 events within a short time without being hit with DR.

What I cannot do is do the same event 5 times in a row, without getting DR.

I was in Orr the other day doing the Grenth chain. I do this twice or three times a week max. When I do the full chain I get full Karma rewards but when I repeat them I notice a drop in rewards. However, when I did the chain, then the event with the asuran cannon that needs protection nearby and then went back to the chain I got full rewards again.

What is a problem however is that Orr is basically only Risen mobs. That’s a very large area with just one mob type basically. No other area I’ve been in is like that. Even under water they’re risen creatures.
Understandable from the story line but even within Zhaitan’s ranks there could’ve been variation in mob types.

Still, it hasn’t affected me personally as I don’t spend my evenings in Orr. I go all over the place, which is what I like to do. Sure, it’s not max karma, gold and drops…but that’s not my style nor is it what GW2 intended.

Someone in another thread said it was to slow down the exotic gear gain. This is total bull because they made it easier to get exotic gear from dungeons and you can buy plenty of exotic gear at around 2g a piece which is easy, even for someone like me who doesn’t nor ever did grind Orr. Just saying it’s still easy to get exotic gear.

And that’s why I don’t have a problem with DR, because I can get my stats, but if I want the cosmetics, then yes it can take a BIT longer to get karma gear. But if I can do lots of low level events that are easier to do and still get me 243 karma. So instead of a week, it takes 10 days to get a piece of karma gear together.

If I remember games like Aion where it would take 2 months with certain tokens from dailies to get one armour piece, you can see that I don’t see the problem here. Especially since there alternatives and it’s ok that some things take longer than others.

DR is not my prefered solution but considering what happened so far, I see it as a blessing in disguise. Those who can’t deal with variation > efficiency will leave and that’s probably for the better because that’s what the idea was here.

Disagree all you want, act as if you and your 5 friends are the majority all you want, in the end there are people with different opinions and I am fine with DR. It only hurts a certain type of player and as far as I’ve seen in the last few years before the game release that type of player wasn’t what this game was made for. Just cause you managed to turn Orr into a grindfest, doesn’t mean that it was intended. I see it as Anet fixing something they hadn’t realised would or could happen.

I don’t think it’s against their design philosophy at all. I feel in fact that it is exactly in line with it. People just did things that weren’t expected or intended….and so it was dealt with.

I think in the end I see DR as a good thing.

From my point of view, this game isn’t made for people who want to grind the same event chain over and over and over again.

Yes, it was the most efficient way of getting karma, gold and items all in one. However, this isn’t what was intended for level 80s and because the rushers who got to 80 first and were pretty much all doing this, it sets a path and limits people’s ideas of what endgame in GW2 is really about.

And that is that the whole world is at your feet. When I turned 80 on my mesmer I hadn’t finished the story line, had done hardly any dungeon, didn’t explore half the world yet and skip various events…some because they were bugged of course.

But now at level 80 I get my gear together and explore the rest of the world, going all over doing completions of areas and the events I run into.

And with my guildies I do lower level content to help them in dungeons or story line quests etc.

In other words I have plenty to do, still not halfway done with my level 80 and I did start with the head start. This is GW2 endgame. Variation over efficiency. You see there is no need to worry about endgame gear progression because exotic gear is easy to get even when you don’t grind at all. I did it. Of course, if you specifically want the complete karma set or a full dungeon set, then yes, it will take a bit longer but you can do that over time. 243 karma is not a bad reward for level 3 events when you’re level 80.

And then I hear you say, yes, but I don’t have to play the same way you do. And that’s true, but there is a point where you fall outside what the game was set up to do and then you will hit limitations.

DR is something that pro-actively curbed a specific playstyle. More specifically, the people who were grinding away in the grenth event chain in maxed magic find gear notice this limitation quite quickly.

What can I say? My biggest gripe in this is that we have a magic find stat at all. You don’t need it really but in the end it’s what you make out of it. Anet probably never thought that with all the content present, people would end up just doing the same 3-4 events over and over, grinding away as if this was a grind game. Old habits die hard, but they need to die in this game. That’s what DR stands for in my view: not rewarding the bad habits from other games.

You may want to play that way, but in GW2 you don’t need to and it shouldn’t become the standard. You were making it the standard and now you can’t anymore. It’s undesirable in this game. Any other MMO would welcome your grind behaviour but this isn’t the game for that.

Just face it Cerise and others like you…what you enjoy isn’t what this game was intended for. You managed to do it and Anet shut it down, just like in the recent patch some speed clearing tactics were shut down. Not the game for it.

Craven.5468:

In one day a single person could:
log into every server for 30 minutes
ask every map chat if they see any bots
verify they are bots visually (it is obvious)
drop the hammer on every one.

If this happened each day, the results would be impressive.

A single employee. Everything else, is just an excuse.

A very simplistic view and wrong. I could give arguments but I am thinking you wouldn’t be open to them anyways.

So I will keep it simple: It’s not that simple. Everything else is just fantasy land.

I don’t agree with people who say there’s not enough content.

There may not be enough content in the way that they like it, but there is quite a bit of content. That’s a difference.

I do agree with the OP to some extent, because there aren’t enough different ways in getting armour as far as cosmetics are concerned.

The karma armour is there but at 42k karma a piece it’s a sharp contrast with getting 2 gold together for an exotic piece on the TP. And as the karma armour all looks the same, no matter which trader you go to, it shows a limitation there as well. As soon as you decide you don’t really like the look, you might as well not do it because there are easier ways to get exotic armour.

The dungeons is another item for me. I am glad they improved the token rewards. It is no longer a grind to get some of the armour piece in that respect but the drops in the dungeons themselves don’t really compare in comparing it with other games that have dungeons. Still, I don’t know if that’s a big issue for me. It’s just a different approach. What is a bigger issue to me is that you get different tokens in each dungeon. In theory that might sound nice but there is another limitation there. I like the armour from TA for my level 80 mesmer. It’s awesome looking. At least, it is to me. So I do TA until I have the pieces together. However, I don’t like any of the other armour sets and from what I’ve seen for medium and heavy armour I don’t really like any of them and the weapons…well maybe the GS from AC for my warrior…well, when I have a warrior that is.

So, why would I do any of the other dungeons? I might do them once or twice for the experience but after that you do want something to show for your efforts. And yet there is no suitable reward for me. So what I would want is to be able to exchange tokens for something else.

Perhaps exchanging tokens for karma. Just an idea but it could help people get karma gear together instead of grinding karma in Orr and raging over DR.

And then there is the gear from the priory/whispers/vigil. Generally not very desireable, nor the cultural armour.

You know when I think about it, I really want more armour sets that are actually nice looking cause most special sets are just butt ugly and I want more diverse ways of getting them, so I can mix my activities and still get the armours or weapons I want. That seems to be in line with the approach of Anet here I would think.

What I really don’t understand is that GW2 is beautifully crafted as such but the armour sets are lacking greatly in comparison. Give me kurzick elite armour from GW1 for my Guardian or Mesmer anyday. It rocked. Whoever they had designing armour in GW1 should come back for GW2 and if they already are they should get a slap in the head to wake em up.
Sure, the GW1 graphics are older, but it’s the designs I’m talking about. Much cooler looking, really.

Apos.5184:

@Gehenna:

We have already established that the DR returns barely affect bots. Alright?

No you haven’t. You just think you have but there are no facts presented here other than a few people saying there are still or more bots. That doesn’t make it a fact, nor does it establish anything.

Apos.5184:

Having the DR system punishes those who “are not the target audience”, like you like to claim.

It doesn’t reward a repetitive grind style of play, which is LOGICAL in a game that claims not to be about grind.

Apos.5184:

Not having the DR system punishes noone. Since it doesn’t affect you when it exists, its absence won’t have an effect on your type of players, right?

Not having DR makes that grinding Orr becomes the trend again. That is a bad trend for the game and all the players who don’t play like you, so I disagree with you yet again.

Apos.5184:

So…I’ll let you make the logical conclusion of this. Especially since most of the players can see that the DR system has barely scratched the bot activity in-game.

There is no logical conclusion as you base yourself on opinions and non sequiturs.

Also most of the players haven’t reached level 80 yet, so per definition your comment is false. And since DR is probably just a small part of the total approach I cannot say what their intent is with it an what effects they are actually trying to generate with this. It could very well be that they, for example, expected an increase in bots, since they need more bots for the same gain. And they forced this because the more visible they are, the easier it is to get to the root of the problem. Just banning the bots without deeper research would be pointless. So I think you overestimate your knowledge of what is really going on on Anet’s side. Neither of us knows, but at least I am not saying I know, just what I think. That’s not the same.

And let me make clear, that I am not saying that there are no bots but on my server (Piken Square) I haven’t seen many at all, but then I don’t spend all evening in Orr because I prefer variation over reward per second gameplay.

Lance Coolee.9480:

I hear a ton of argument (@Red Falcon, @deriver, @Nyaochan) against a player suggesting an issue w/ the game, but not one argument as to why DR needs to stay.

Seriously, if you want to defend DR so much, do so with valid points.

And if you know “Game Design 101” so well, then you’d likely also know “User Experience 101” well enough to know that you don’t impose a negative impact on one system to accommodate another unless there is clearly no other alternative and that you are guaranteed a better result than otherwise.

Last I checked, bots are in full swing, growing in numbers. So who did the DR really have an affect on?

Personally, it’s not that I am defending DR. I didn’t think it was the most elegant solution, but I don’t know what all happens behind the scenes at Anet and I just figure that they do have a reason to do it.

Partially I am sure it is part of their anti-botting approach but a small part of it and this part also affects the playstyle of a relatively small group of players.
I say small because most people aren’t level 80 yet as it is and I there are also players like myself who are level 80 and are not affected at all by this DR situation.

Aside from that it touches on a deeper issue and this has to do with playstyles and not so much with DR itself. GW2 was made for the people who aren’t affected by this. They are the target audience as I see it and by default then you are not.

So, again, I am not defending DR but I don’t have a problem with it myself and I when I see the reasons from people who are against DR generally, I can only say that these people are playing the wrong game. This isn’t a game that fits your playstyle. And so most of my comments come from not understanding why you would buy a game that per definition isn’t about your playstyle. Sure, you may have found a way to make the game fit your playstyle for a little while but I am convinced that what you guys did with this Orr grinding is diametrically opposed to what this game was made for. I would say that what you did was something Anet perhaps didn’t even expect to happen.

So, DR by itself has not love from me, but when I see who is upset about it and why, then suddenly it becomes a good thing to me, because I would hate for this game to turn into an Orr grind for everybody just because that’s what other people are already doing, thereby completely bypassing what this game is for. That by itself could be detrimental to this game and a danger to its existence.

I am sorry that it screws up your game but you were playing it in a way that was not intended. You could say it’s your choice, but then as being the group that rushed to 80, you also set the tone for those who follow. And there I am not sad if this is broken. Sure, a number of people will leave because of it or already have, but for what I think the game is intended for, that’s probably for the best.

Just my view. For the rest see my signature

Groonz.7825:

The DR is simply a hindrance for legit players.
It simply acts as an artificial timer for how long you can play. .

It’s a hindrance for some players, not all and in my view most players haven’t got a problem with this.

It’s not a timer for how long you can play, that is entirely self-inflicted. You can play as long as you want. You just don’t get as much reward for grinding the same mobs or events all day long. My view: boohoo.

Groonz.7825:

It limits how long you can stay in a single area. I find that just stupid. Let’s say I’m in a level 40-45 area and I just want to stay around there and it’s only got the same type of creatures in there. .

It’s not a time limit for an area but yes it does encourage you to visit more areas. Also other areas have more than one type of mob, unlike Orr, so your example doesn’t reall make sense.

Groonz.7825:

To solve the DR, some would say “Go explore else where, or go ____”. .

Why should I do that? I want to be in that area as it would be the appropriate are for me to be in at that level. I don’t want to have to go somewhere else just to have to work around some system that wasn’t aimed at me. .[/quote]

You want to grind the same mobs and events in the same area all day. You can still do that, you just don’t get rewarded for that. Very disturbing for a game that isn’t made for grinders.

Groonz.7825:

Although in the cases of Orr and being 80, I’m simply left with the constant feeling of “Have I been here for too long? It’s been 10 minutes, has the DR kicked in, I should probably quit for the day for”. .

If you have a lot of magic find and you grind the same events over and over again the time will come sooner yes. But please get it in your head that all other things aside, this game wasn’t designed around that gameplay. If that’s what you like, you really are in the wrong game. It’s that simple. You can grind, but it’s not what Anet wants to reward aside from the whole botting issue.

Groonz.7825:

Will bots suffer from this? Not as much. Why? They simply run constantly for hours. Not to mention they’ve already have hacked in teleports which I’d assume they would easily program the bot to just teleport to different locations after certain amount of time. So they wouldn’t be hindered by this. .

They are hindered by this for various reasons, but yes they will adapt and more measures are needed. No point in making it easier for them again though.

Groonz.7825:

While a legit player like me has to think if playing 10 minutes in orr is too much.

You just care about the rewards, not what you are actually doing. I don’t believe you really enjoy Orr as an area or the events for the 100th time in a row. That’s ok if you are like that….it’s just not what this game was made for though.

It’s an example I gave in another thread. If you buy a CD with Country music on it, would you get upset and write a letter to the company to complain that there is no Heavy Metal music on it?
No, because you know that when you buy a CD like that it’s that type of music. If you want a grind game with end gear progression, why buy a game that isn’t built around that?

That is just still the biggest mystery to me. Is it just because it’s a fantasy MMO that you ignored the rest of the previews and advertisements that all talked about how this isn’t that type of game?

Zoridium JackL.7463:

you make valid points but I wasn’t talking about DR specifically, my points apply to it, but not it alone, I left a while ago not because of DR or running out of content, I just found the content I enjoy in games to be severely lacking in GW2.

This is about as fair a comment as I can think of in this thread or many others. And I think this is the reason for a lot of debate in these forums.

There is a certain type of content you enjoy…and you are right, it is lacking in this game. On the other hand, that is exactly the reason why I like this game because I really got fed up quickly with the type of content many other MMOs have to offer.

And here it is. GW2 is really unlike other MMOs. When you enjoy the more traditional content this really isn’t the game for you or anyone who likes that type of content.

Therefore it’s not a realistic expectation to think that someone could convince Anet to do otherwise. The whole point of this game was to offer a different experience because a lot of people got sick of the type of content that was being offered.

Also, after WoW every game like that has failed to make a real dent in the market. WoW is still the biggest and any other MMO has been reduced to a few select servers with the more staunch fans remaining. That’s it.

I think Anet were right to think people wanted an alternative. And that’s what GW2 is…a real alternative.

The fact that you are bored with this game because it doesn’t offer what you like is a correct and logical situation because you like content that this game wasn’t build for.

Most of the complainers in this forum, not all but most, would fit this category….they just haven’t been able to admit that and still think they can convince Anet to completely rebuild this game after release or convince enough people to hate it like they do so they hope to crash this game to make up for their petty emotional states.

I like GW2 but I also see the bugs and some needed improvements, but I think more along the lines of improving the game and not changing it in a completely different direction. Orr is really boring and tough. Another reason to not grind there in my view. It lacks diversity (just risen everywhere) and the mobs respawn to quickly, too many contested waypoints, not enough waypoints. Broken events etc. I see it. But that doesn’t bother me so much because they will look at endgame when a lot more people get to max level, which at the moment most players are not.

I like doing low level events. Fun and easy and still get 250 karma each time. I don’t need a legendary weapon today. It can come next week or next month for all I care. I have full exotic gear and can do any content, anywhere. That’s good enough for me and the reason I enjoy this game.

Just a different playstyle and different things that I get out of it. And it fits with what this game offers. Simple as that.

Yeah it does get better and it really depends on the group. I hated them at first but enjoying them much more now cause the groups are better.

Zoridium JackL.7463:

firstly, the blame is squarely on Anets shoulders for claiming you can play how you want in the first place, a seasoned dev like them should know better than to promise things you already know you can’t possibly deliver, and a game that can be played any which way you want is simply not possible, too many different preferences and too many unreasonable nutters who will take the term too literally.

secondly, I do expect to go to a theme park and have 100 + goes on the rotating clowns, and on the 150th try I would expect that I have the same chance of winning the big prize as when I started, not to be told that now I can’t win anything not from the consolation box just because I’ve played too long.

thirdly, you don’t understand something very key to game development, you aren’t making the game for yourself, you are making it for your players (no this isn’t entitlement speaking, this is game design 101) and if they don’t enjoy it then nuts to you.

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

P.S. the last half I’m not just talking about DR, believe it or not they do it in other ways as well, and those other ways usually fly straight into the face of their design philosophies.

I agree that there is a problem on the marketing side of any company. Truth is they all do this. But aside from saying that you could play anyway you want, they also made it very clear this was not a grind game. And you can still grind, just not in the same place without DR hitting you, but switch areas and you can keep farming. What people are complaining about really is that they have to use their brain and that it takes a little longer, not the actual DR. If other areas gave the same rewards, hardly anyone would be complaining. It’s about grind efficiency (RPS), not that you cannot grind just that the people going 200 km/h now have to go at 180 km/h. They say it’s worse but it isn’t. That’s all exaggeration.

And every game has limits. It’s a programmed organism, not a living one and therefore has borders and patterns that need reprogramming to change. The problem isn’t that there are borders or limits but that they changed and a number of people are unwilling to adapt.

Yes, unwilling to go to other areas. Unwilling to accept that they need to take a little bit longer (not a lot longer, that’s their own fault for not getting that).

And no game can cater to every play style. You chose to focus on one sentence in the marketing campaing and ignored the rest. I put the blame on yourself for wanting this game to be something it isn’t.

Either way you will leave. Because of anger over DR or because of burning through content. You can’t cater to that group of players much cause they always leave in the first couple of months.

This helps the more long term player that stays cause he likes it for what it is and not hates it for what it isn’t.

I also think the DR isn’t just about botting but also to curb unwanted playing styles.

From what I understand there is a limit on how many medals or whatever you can get for killing players. I figure they want to avoid rewarding people for certain types of behaviour in wvw. For example a big zerg that rampages through smaller groups constantly doesn’t get rewarded for that. By itself I think that’s a good thing, but I can imagine there may be moments where it affects people who aren’t doing that.

As with anything systems draw a line in the sand somewhere and it isn’t always fair, but it is the way it is, because the alternatives are worse.

Lillith.5724:

Nevermind, found my answer on the wiki:

Daily and Monthly achievements — they reset back to zero at the start of each day and month respectively, at midnight UTC (4:00 PM PST/5:00 PM PDT).

Yea, short end of the stick. I guess I could’ve looked this up but I was under the impression they used the Seattle PST/PDT for server resets.

I guess not everything in the world revolves around the USA But yeah since Anet are in Seattle I can understand that assumption. I suppose Anet realise they have a world wide audience and that is unusual by itself.

To me it just seems there are a couple of servers that are perhaps in trouble.

But as long as people don’t say which server they are on it means nothing to me.

And of course there are less people playing it because there is always a percentage of people that leaves….they decided this game is not for them. That always happens with any product.

The more annoying part is that some of these people who should simply conclude this game isn’t actually what they were looking for, come here daily trying to focus their hate and disappointment in order to…..well, that’s the problem isn’t it. It usually isn’t constructive criticism but just reiteration and emotions so it won’t or can’t lead to anything useful.

Don’t like that this game isn’t a traditional MMO? Then you can stop playing and go to a game that does work for you. But becoming a forum doom prophet never did any good to anyone….even if it were true the game was dying. It still doesn’t help anyone or anything.

robot.9134:

“People who don’t want to do the lower level events because the “rewards are crap”, don’t get how this game works. I don’t have a problem with doing some events that only give me half the karma.”

Please explain how the game works because there are a lot of us that are playing it wrong apparently. Tell me what you do that I don’t so that I can enjoy the way you play it.

There is also nothing wrong with wanting to earn rewards for anything you put your time into. On or off the computer.

You may not like the reward system others like but dont chastise them because you can’t relate. When it comes down to it this game still has the carrot on the stick. Carrot on the stick (in w/e form) + fun = replay value.

The game does have some things you can work for. But it’s not the same carrot on a stick tactic other MMOs have used. In those games you need to get gear so you can do the next raid or Hard Mode or whatever. You need the gear to have access to content and it generally takes quite a bit of work to do. Some people like this and this game doesn’t provide for that.

In this game you level to 8o fairly easily and then you have the whole world still open to enjoy as content. The rewards are a bit lower for lower level content but you can still enjoy playing it.

What you don’t seem to get is that there are also a lot of people who just enjoy the content because they enjoy doing it and not just repeating the same thing over and over again for a few statistics. And because the world is quite big and there’s stuff to do everywhere it gives you more variation.

You want something that this game wasn’t made for. It was advertised as such. No holy trinity, not grind or gear centric but just a lot of stuff to do that is fun to do, rewards aside.

Now there are rewards and the big ones are mostly cosmetic in nature but this has always been the case with Guild Wars. I just don’t understand how people have missed that.

Just one more time. You are perfectly allowed to enjoy gear and grind centric gaming but this game wasn’t made for that type of gaming and I am surprised you didn’t know that when you bought this game. It’s like you bought a diesel car and are upset it doesn’t run on petrol. Or buying a country CD and being upset there’s no Heavy Metal music on it. You bought the wrong game dude. That’s all there’s to it. And there are plenty of people playing this game who don’t have this issue.

Bugs need to be fixed, no game is perfect and neither is GW2, but in large lines Anet is doing a lot to fix bugs. That was the main topic here. The introduction of DR wasn’t just about bots in my view…it’s also about people trying to turn this game in to a grindfest at 80 which it’s not supposed to be. So yeh it was a priority amongst the bug fixes.

I think it’s great….I am so glad this didn’t become another wow clone. And in fact there is more you can do than you think, it just requires more movement and careful planning of when to use which skills.

I dunno how you missed the marketing and interviews but the game was advertised as not having the holy trinity.

If you have a lot of experience with MMOs, that’s great but it doesn’t help you in GW2. Learn some new tricks or it will stay a tricky game for you. Just how it is and how it has been advertised for years already.

What can I say…SWTOR had great voice acting but the game was lacking greatly in other areas.
Voice acting here is sort of acceptable…but the game delivers more as a whole. I agree though…voice acting could’ve been a lot better.

when you wonder why your necromancer is casting an elementalist spell, only to realise it’s your elementalist you’re playing.

It’s actually kind of sad but the biggest complaint here is that the game is doing exactly what it said it would.

Read between the lines and you’ll see that people are complaining that they can’t play the game the way they are used to in other MMOs and that there is no endgame because they can only recognise endgame if it’s a big orange carrot dangling in front of them.

If these people are leaving it probably is for the best. So yeh I am sure some people are leaving but no I don’t see any doom scenario. In fact I think the community will be stronger for it.

uhm this game practically throws xp at you, not that I’m complaining….but why on earth are people even doing stuff like this? I swear, some people are just completely ridiculous.

Really, why? Just why even do this?

Yeh it baffles me still that Anet for the last few years have been telling people that GW2 is not grind or gear centric and yet people who are into grind and endgame gear progression come to this game, create their own grind and then get upset when they have to slow down a bit.

I did a few level 3 events about half an hour ago and got 750 karma and 4 silver. It’s not bad at all for doing those events and helping newbies out. I was just waiting to do a dungeon basically.

I get that some people are into the carrot on a stick thing but they really bought the wrong game if they want that from GW2. I am with Kimbald on this one.

Yeah I would think that at some point they would add some areas that might be for a slightly bigger group than the dungeons. Probably not right away though since a lot of people are still runing dungeons for gear and such.

And yet, Vizier, all you say is a matter of perception.

This lies not only in what Anet does but also in how you perceive fun. What you want seems to fit more in traditional MMOs.

You are right in saying that it’s about time played vs the reward. I call it RPS. You guys are looking for the optimum Reward Per Second. It’s part of the whole set up of traditional MMOs. Min-maxing and all that stuff.

Now, I am not saying that you cannot like that sort of gameplay. What I am saying is that considering the clear indications from Anet that this was not supposed to be a game that revolves around grind, you still came in and managed to create a grind for yourself.

I still think that the DR system was not just implemented to counter botting activities but also to counter you guys who are playing the game in the opposite way it was intended. Also there you may not be happy but it seems to me that you might want to consider the idea that you are perhaps not the target audience for Anet. Sure, you are free to choose to pick up this game and play it, but I have a strong suspicion that Anet didn’t intend endgame to be reduced to grinding the same 3 events.

Not saying there’s no grind in this game and I agree it will take you a bit longer to achieve the same goals. But the point here is, so what? Let it take a bit longer by doing different events in different areas. So you’ll get 250 karma instead of 378. Maybe you’ll take 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks to get your legendary weapon.

If you did get everything quickly, then what would you do once you got it? You will keep doing the same and complain that there’s not enough content. My view is that because of your playstyle and by choosing a game that was even advertised as not being built around grind, you set yourself up for this.

The fact that you can grind, doesn’t mean that that’s what you are supposed to do or that that’s endgame. That is your personal perception and I do not share it. Some will agree with you and others like myself will not. And I will be as bold to say that the game was probably intended more for people like me than you.

Please understand that when you say that DR causes you to grind more is only true because you feel the need to do this grind. Not because you are required to, to compete but because you want this legendary item asap.

Also the idea that it is impossible is an exaggeration. All you need to do is go to other areas and yes it will slow down a bit when you do this because lower level events give less karma.
But there is much more to this game then karma. All karma armour shares the same look. Dungeons are a place where you can get your armour together much faster and by going to other areas for events to alternate, you would perhaps slow down the karma gain by 10-20% at most. That is not impossible and it’s not taking twice as long.

It’s just a different way of being efficient if you will and yes in total it will reduce your speed a bit. But if you now simply insist on staying in Orr and freaking out over the DR because you cannot get yourself to look outside the Orr area then really you limit yourself and I come to the same conclusion that your playstyle isn’t what this game is built for.

Let me say it once more, I honestly don’t think that botting is the only reason we have DR. I think it also has to do with Anet’s philosophy behind how and why they built the game as it is. I suspect they were also worried that level 80s just farming karma in Orr would create an unbreakable trend. I think they wanted to protect this game from people like you who were basically changing the point and purpose of endgame back to the stone age of MMOs, which is exactly what they wanted to get away from. So break the habit before the masses become level 80 or the future of GW2 endgame is screwed.

I cannot be certain, but to me, that’s what I think is behind this…not just botting.

I get that 5 of your skills are linked to the weapon choice, but I wonder if it were possible to interchange the skill slots themselves.

For me I like it better if I can regroup my skills the way I want to. So perhaps I don’t use skill 4 very much or skill 2 and 6 create clones for my mesmer and I want them to be next to each other.

My suggestion then is to not have the skill slots locked but to let them be interchangeable so I can place my skills where I want to.

If they remove queueing, a lot of people will start complaining about lag and imbalanced sides.

What do you have to say for them?

Well, I can’t answer it exactly since I am not a member of the Anet crew. I simply do not know how effective it is in combatting bots. All I know is that as part of their approach against botting they introduced DR.

You are right though, we are completely different types of gamers. Maybe because I am getting a little older, ahem, I see that for me getting there asap means I am not taking the time to look around and see what else there is. Just my point of view of course.

I agree that the botting problem isn’t solved and I do not know what else Anet is doing against it.

However, you raise a very interesting point.

You said:

Everyone in these zones, at least on my server, are mainly grinding the same chains constantly, with the occasional Grenth run every hour. There are many events that just are not being touched.

I can’t help but wonder if DR wasn’t just introduced as a botting measure. I wonder if Anet also used it as a way to discourage people doing exactly what you describe. What you guys are doing is laying a path for all the level 80s to come. Perhaps they want to discourage people simply from hanging together in the same area all the time.

In a month or two there will be alot more 80s. Will you then get upset that Orr is too laggy because everybody is there with their level 80s? As much as you like there to be choice, the reality is that a lot of people are sheep and will simply follow the lead. In game terms, the people who got to level 80 first are the lead.

Perhaps it would be better to raise rewards for level 80s doing other events, but then that might cause people to completely abandon Orr as it will then “not be worth the trouble”. People will then complain that Orr is too hard for the rewards. At some point you gotta see that the alternative might be worse or create more problems than it solves.

Reading is a skill….

I said limiting yourself to 2% AT LEVEL 80. Read it again.

From your post it seems that endgame to you is doing the same handful of events in Orr over and over again.
I don’t really know why but that’s what it sounds like to me. If I misunderstood you, then please explain, why on earth you feel you need to just do the same things over and over again when there are so many more things in the game and places in the game where you can get karma or whatever you need without grinding yourself silly.

Sure, it might take you 3 days instead of 2 but then it’s a MMO and you can take your time.

And you can’t expect a game to cater to everybody’s schedule. That’s just an unrealistic expectation. So what if it takes longer? What’s the rush? Are you afraid the world will end December 21st and you need to get your karma armour complete before that happens? That’s what I don’t get.

Of course a game cannot cater to everything. That’s why some people like it and some don’t.

Ravnodaus.5130:

let me ask you a question. What do you hope to gain by calling them out for being vocal? After you’ve answered that, do you think it will get you anywhere?

My reasoning is simple.

If indeed you believe there is a point in bringing this up again and again, then what is that point? ….because if there isn’t…well then there’s no point, so get over it and move on.

Just saying.

Kimhyuna.1035:

I am a paying customer, I have a right to post on the forums too. If these topics are not to your interest, you have the ability to ignore them. I do not go around on the ‘praise anet’ and flame individuals who think the game is perfect for them.

Yes, you have the right to complain. I do not dispute that. But what I actually asked is what you think it you will achieve by repeating your same complaint over and over again. Do you really think it will make any positive difference?

Well, your comments are fair enough. I look at it differently, because I don’t just play for the rewards but I would like to see some more possibilities for karma.

I have a piece of karma gear, but don’t need more and the weapons we can get I don’t need either. This also means I don’t need to farm karma but as I do events all over the map I will end up with more karma. I don’t even remember if karma gear is bound on pick up so I would be interested in more variety in rewards and account bound items.

Kimhyuna.1035:

^My daily cycle:
-Log on 80 ele
-Do ori run
-Farm 3 to 4 events to cap out and to make sure DR has kicked in (normally 40mins to an hour)
-Log out
-Log on 80 War
-Do ori run
-Farm 3 to 4 events
-Log off

Repeat process every 5hrs when Ori nodes reset.
I wish I could effectively use my time to play the game I love, but I loathe the limitations placed on me in terms of how much I can play.

You can play all you want. The only thing you can’t do is repeat the same 5 events over and over again and expect the same reward each time.

My hint to you is that once you start throwing around words like “effectively” you already missed the point of this game. I can understand that from your point of view this is the worst thing that could happen to you but if you choose to limit yourself to 2% of the game at level 80 because you insist on being effective or efficient, then you really are in the wrong place.

A small word of advice: anyone who says he knows what the majority of players wants or thinks is a liar.

Edit: and yes if I ever say something about the majority of players, that also means I am bluffing because I can’t know either. Fair is fair.

To Ronin, Soulwatcher and Kimhyuna.

You have complained about it. I do not know if you put anything in the suggestion forum or contacted CS directly to complain about but we all know now that you don’t like DR.

So, do you actually think that complaining about it more on the general forum will improve this? All you will get here is the same group of people agreeing with you and the other group of people disagreeing with you.

You are entitled to complain about it, but there is no positive outcome that I can think of from reiterating your complaint. Anet will not listen more, other players on the forum have already formed their opinion about the issue.

So let me ask you the question: what do you think to gain from this continued complaint campaign on the forum? And once you’ve answered that, if you can, do you really believe it will get you anywhere?

I understand that GW2 can be a bit of a shock when you are used to GW1. I was initially as well, but I like GW2 now for the game it is, not because it’s part 2 of Guild Wars

Or in other words: I don’t like this, so I will quit if you do not do what I want. But since I am just one small person and feel Anet would never pay attention to little old me I will exaggerate and stamp my feet….but wait, I feel so strongly about this, that I simply must be right. So therefore I know that I am representative of the majority of players.

And thus:

Anet, your game sucks and everybody knows you don’t listen to the community and because we all know this, we will all leave until you change it. But since you don’t listen, I predict this game will fail….and I will even twist the facts and make loose interpretations if it helps you change the game for me, I mean us. And any player that doesn’t feel the same as I do, is a white knight, fanboi, idiot, traitor and needs to be convinced of my opinion.

uh huh.

Unfortunately we live in a world where what you believe is more important than what really is. Marketing campaigns are a good example of this. Arenanet are no exception to this. Like it or not, they advertised GW2 just as other companies advertise theirs…by embellishing, exaggerating, focusing on what they want you to see and making sure that you interpret things in a positive way even though they never actually said that.

I don’t think I can change this type of behaviour in marketing for the whole world or even a small part of it. I guess it’s just the times we live in or it’s just human nature in general.

All you can do is see for yourself if your interest is peaked.

I played GW1 for many years and when they announced GW2 they were sure that it’s what the player base at that time was asking for. As with anything on this scale, you can’t really honestly make that statement. Some people will agree and some will not.

I was not positively impressed during the beta but I gave it another shot on launch and I do like GW2 now.

But yes, it has bugs and plenty of them. It’s a real MMO now and any MMO has a fair number of bugs when they come out. Partially because perhaps games get released too soon but also because it’s simply a part of releasing something a big as a MMO.

There may be some people who want to see the game fail to prove WoW still has it but I think that’s a very small group. Most of the doom prophets here I would think are simply people that are disappointed with the game and are so upset with it that they need to game to fail to be vindicated. Really, it’s nothing more than petty human emotion. As with any product, some people will end up disappointed. There simply is no game that everybody likes, just as there’s no car brand or movie title that everybody likes.

What you also have is a lot of people that have been trained for gear progression endgame in many other MMO’s and simply don’t get what they’re supposed to do in this game and so they get bored. There is tons of stuff to do, but they don’t see it because they look at the game with the holy trinity/raiding/gear progression eyes and so through those eyes they look at GW2 and see nothing. Well, they see a few things that resembles it and create things like Karma grinding but then when it’s nerfed with DR, they freak out, because it destroys the last bit they were holding on to.

In my view they should either open their eyes to what this game does offer or they should accept that this is not the game they were looking for. Instead they come here foretelling the fall of GW2 because they need it to fall to prove them right. In the end it won’t help them or anyone else though, cause whether the game fails or not, makes no difference to whether you like a game or not. And once you are disappointed and don’t enjoy a game, the best thing to do is to let go and move on.

Companies set up part of the problem by advertising the way they do. Then players take over and make it worse themselves and yet all that really matters is whether you enjoy the game or not. When you do you play it, when you don’t move on. That’s how I see it.

The core of the matter is that you don’t need all this grind. This is an illusion that you guys have accepted yourself.

You complain that you cannot make 7 gold in 4 hours and now it takes you, what, 8 hours to get 3 gold?

I am no farmer or grinder and I can make 3 gold in 8 hours and I don’t even have to be in Orr for that.

And unique skins matter but you don’t have to have all of them collected within two weeks either.

Currently some of the best skins come from dungeons. You can do a dungeon in 3 different ways getting 60 tokens each time. If you think it’s a problem that it could take you 2-3 days to get a specific exotic item with a cool skin then you are simply impatient.

Oh and if it’s bugged that’s another matter. That’s not the DR system…that’s a bug in the system and that needs to be fixed. From what I’ve read that should be fixed on Monday….

I like doing lower level content because I value variation over what I call RPS (Reward Per Second). What I mean with that is that I don’t need maximum rewards for everything I do. I just like to move around and do different things instead of grinding the same 3 events for karma because I think I need to.

So I agree with point 8 from my point of view.

I said this game isn’t about grind. Didn’t say it doesn’t exist.

What’s different is that I could get geared up within about a week or so with exotic gear without going full grind like you describe.

I got one piece from karma, one piece from a dungeon and after selling the mats I gathered while leveling (and trust me I skipped plenty of nodes) I was able to buy the rest on the TP no problem.

And this is my point. There is no need to grind. I can repeat what I want, but why would I grind karma? I have exotic gear and the look isn’t interesting of karma gear.

People who don’t want to do the lower level events because the “rewards are crap”, don’t get how this game works. I don’t have a problem with doing some events that only give me half the karma.

You seem to have a maximum reward per minute need. Don’t forget this is not your job. Your boss isn’t there to improve your efficiency in time spent. I suppose that in line with the term DPS I shall call you a RPS’er. You know Reward Per Second player.

If that’s what you like, then yeah, you will be limited in your enjoyment here.

lol, people just need to understand that no one here has facts. I don’t either.

Everybody who talks about lots of players or everyone knows is just hiding behind bigger numbers that they invent because actually they just mean themselves.

It’s all opinion here, nothing more. Arenanet hold the numbers. They know how many people play, how many games are sold and how many people aren’t logging in anymore.

Are there servers with population issues? Maybe. I don’t know and the people who complain about it refuse to give details so why believe them?

Is DR so restrictive? Perhaps to some but only if you play a certain way that doesn’t even fit in what this game was advertised.

Can we agree that Anet said this game wasn’t for grinding?

If so, then why complain about not being able to grind like in a korean game?

For the love of whatever, somebody of you complainers should be able to see the irony in this and the point that you are grinding only because you have been so well trained by other games to do this and not because there is any real reason in this game to do so.

There simply is no need to do this. You do it because you have been taught to in other games and if you really like grinding away….yeh, you guessed it, this is not the game for you as Anet have been telling us for a long time…this game isn’t about grind.

Oh and just because you still see bots, doesn’t mean it isn’t working….just a thought. That may just be a rash or even a false conclusion. Consider it.

robot.9134:

Why would a customers opinion “not hold much water”? lol Anet better be listening to these opinions because its not just 1-2 players.

You can’t just come in here and say that someones criticism is bad because you have had a different experience and you have a different opinion.

More often that not its the level 80 players complaining and the level 1-70 players who think the game is great. I thought this game was amazing until 60 or 70+ when the bugs and issues started to surface….especially when i saw orr. Orr is exactly what people were hoping GW2 wouldnt have. Its a huge zerg/farm/grind.

Also going back to your post about aion, swtor and the comparison of their release and gw2…. Aion killed BOTH of them for lvl cap content. The pvpve was interesting as well as the normal pvp and pve. Not only that but they were multi tasking character balance with the bugs and fixes.

A customer can talk out of his rear end. That it holds no water is my perception. Arenanet my think of it what they will.

For me, if I say this game sucks, it holds no water until I explain why and give reasons and argumentation. Saying that Arenanet is too slow with fixing bugs is not factual, it’s opinion. To say it’s slower than other games without giving examples is talking out of your rear end. Sorry, just my view.

And yes I can say that someone’s opinion is bad because I had a difference experience. I have a right to voice my opinions just as much as you do…however, that’s not what I did. I say your criticism fails because it has no substance. If it did, I would take your opinions more seriously, even if I disagree with you. There simply is no actual argumentation from you.

Now you say Aion and SWTOR had more level cap content at release than GW2. Again no substance. Also because it isn’t true. SWTOR had 2 operations (raids) and a handful of flashpoints (dungeons). PvP was a joke with just a couple of maps and non existent world pvp. The flashpoints were dead easy and getting gear even easier. So that left people with two raids that were mostly unplayable as they were bugged.

Aion had only a couple of dungeons at release for level 50. There was nothing more for PvE. PvP was also a joke. The pvpve wasn’t interesting for most people. The constant ganking resulted in people leaving in masses and rifting being nerfed completely.

I played both games and look at their population… within a few months the servers were emptying all over. Within 6 months server merges. SWTOR just merged the merged servers…..8 months old.

I don’t know how things will go here, but don’t tell me those other games have more content.

The downscaling makes that you can do events in all areas without feeling that you are one shotting stuff and the dungeons are tougher than any flashpoints in SWTOR.
Aion was a total grind game and GW2 isn’t.

There is content, but it’s not what you are used to and not the way you see it. That doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

oh and they were multi tasking bug fixing and skill balancing? Don’t make me laugh. Those two games took months to fix basic things and created more problems with each fix. It took 6 months for Aion to respond to some of the big issues raised on the forums and the classes were totally imbalanced and their balancing resulted in rifting being nerfed. SWTOR took months and still have bugs that aren’t fixed that were there from release. And now their latest patch blocke their trading post (gtn) and people have been reporting characters that are being deleted randomly.

No, I am not convinced at all that SWTOR an Aion had anything on GW2.

Sundial.9015:

I can say for myself I most likely will not be around next month if I can’t even play the game for 15 minutes before I stop getting loot running around Orr/Frostgorge doing all kinds of different events. Also, its very frustrating that I stop getting badges in WvW after I kill many people in a short time.

Just from this quote I can see that this is not the game for you.

And doing all kinds of different events within 15 minutes is quite a feat by itself. Having that result in DR restrictions would be nothing short of miraculous. Surely you exaggerate…

It really is not that hard to circumvent the DR system as a real person. And why people think they should be able to grind themselves silly and get all the top gear within a matter of days in a game that has been advertised as game that isn’t for grinders for years…well, that’s just really baffling.

Again, if this post is serious I really think this isn’t the game for you. Not as a joke but for real.

The problem with social interaction is the social part. And that depends on people more than anything.

I just have a hard time believing complaints about lack of population, not because I don’t think it’s possible, but because the people who complain generally fail to mention basic things like:

Server name
Area name
Time and timezone when the person was playing

As long as we don’t have that sort of information, the OP can be a total troll for all I care. We can’t even check if anything he says has any value when there are no facts to consider.

I’ve seen threads where people finally mentioned their server name and then there were instantly replies of people from the same server who said it was nonesense and that they had no problem finding people.

So who should we believe?

Obviously since negative things are more exciting, people tend to believe the negative first.

I am all for criticism, but without any useful info or facts it’s just a load of empty talk to me.

AsgardNation.2953:

i barely find 2-3 ppl online during map exploring.
maybe i am the lowest lvl remained on low areas,or did everybody else quitted already?

In response to the title of your thread: Are you a troll?