Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

If people feel the ranger is bad enough to quit over, that is indeed their opinion. And they expressed it. I expressed a contrary opinion. Other people share my opinion. I don’t know why you have a problem with this. I didn’t say this person doesn’t have a right to his opinion, but I do believe he’s overstating his case.

Considering how many 80th level rangers I see running around, I’d have to say I’m not alone.

This is a much more balanced way of bringing your opinion. Would’ve been great if that was actually the topic here.

You do realise you were reacting to a single comment made by someone who isn’t the OP?

Vayne.8563:

There are bugs in every game. If the bug is minor it’s minor. I play a ranger just fine. I don’t have to “deal with it” even if someone else said so. Since I know a whole lot of people who enjoy their rangers and don’t think they’re bugged, or unplayable, I guess that would remain a matter of opinion. I have no trouble playing my ranger. I don’t have to deal with it. That’s your assumption.

You call it minor, doesn’t mean it is minor to everybody. You are not the template for mankind as you know, so this is a matter of opinion.

You play a ranger just fine. Again, that’s your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s working fine for everyone.

Just because you don’t have to deal with it, doesn’t mean others don’t feel that way. You are not more right than others or do you claim some sort of divinity here?

When you say you know “a whole lot of people” that’s a very subjective and misleading term. Someone in a village might think 1000 people is alot and someone living in LA might find 10 million people a lot. Give us a number or an estimate. I am pretty sure it might lack the volumes of representing the player base. So again this is personal opinion and experience, not an actual majority or even a big chunk of the player base.

bugged, or unplayable. This is a false comparison. Bugged is not equal to unplayable. Some bugs may literally make a class unplayable but most bugs are not of that category. So yes this is very much personal opinion again.

And your final assumption is that I was saying you were having trouble with it. I didn’t assume you did or do. I simply was indicating that there are people who acknowledge the bug and deal with it. Not that this was your experience.

Of course you do have a tendency to talk as if you have some authority or represent a lot of people and this is why I wanted to show you that not everybody, even the people who do play rangers, consider everything to be just fine.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve leveled several characters now in the new NPE. I don’t like the new trait system and I don’t like the way that the story has been broken after level 70, but the rest of the NPE I don’t mind. And I like the leveling rewards. I find it quite fast and painless to get to level 15 now, it’s much faster than it was before.

Summary for the purpose of reflection:

I don’t like (trait system)
I don’t like (broken story)
I don’t mind (the rest)
I like (the rewards)
I find it quite fast and painless (going to level 15/80)

Would you consider this a positive reaction to this NPE?

Vayne.8563:

While I agree that the OP is entitled to his opinion, it is my belief that he’s making a mountain out of a molehill…which is, of course, only my opinion.

Just as a thought: Tripping over molehills regularly might end up feeling like climbing a mountain.

Hmm…since the Trait system has nothing to do with the NPE, and the other comments stack up as 1 negative, 1 neither pro nor con, and 2 pro, I would say, yes, that is a positive reaction to the NPE. =)

I was just quoting him. I am not even sure what NPE stands for. For me it meant all the changes the OP referred to. So forgive me my mistake and instead of NPE just know I meant all of those things together.

Vayne.8563:

Over all, the transition to the NPE has affected me game more positively than negatively, even though there are things I like less about it. Hope that’s clearer for you.

Well that is what I was thinking, knowing you as far as I do.

I put it up for reflection as it didn’t sound very positive at all and I was sure you were more positive about it than you actually described.

Vayne.8563:

Ranger works fine for a whole lot of people. I know people who love their rangers and play them all the time. They run dungeons with them, do open world events with them, even PvP and WvW with them.

I think it was another thread where someone mentioned: We’ve learned to deal with it, so should you.

I am not sure if that’s how I would like to define “working fine”. There is still a big difference for me between making it work and working fine.

Vayne.8563:

So maybe assuming the profession is unplayable is a gross exaggeration.

I think the assumption is yours. He said it needs fixing, not that it’s unplayable as far as I can tell. Perhaps I missed the comment where he actually said it was unplayable. Apologies in advance if that’s the case.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve leveled several characters now in the new NPE. I don’t like the new trait system and I don’t like the way that the story has been broken after level 70, but the rest of the NPE I don’t mind. And I like the leveling rewards. I find it quite fast and painless to get to level 15 now, it’s much faster than it was before.

Summary for the purpose of reflection:

I don’t like (trait system)
I don’t like (broken story)
I don’t mind (the rest)
I like (the rewards)
I find it quite fast and painless (going to level 15/80)

Would you consider this a positive reaction to this NPE?

Vayne.8563:

While I agree that the OP is entitled to his opinion, it is my belief that he’s making a mountain out of a molehill…which is, of course, only my opinion.

Just as a thought: Tripping over molehills regularly might end up feeling like climbing a mountain.

Loboling.5293:

Funny enough, my girlfriend did this mission for the first time recently (this is her first real mmo) and somehow beat that mission faster than me. Her instinct is always to avoid fighting, and so many parts of this mission get done faster running past mobs. When she told me she finished and I remembered the mission taking my like 30 minutes and she finished in 10, I was shocked.

Moral of the story, the mission is only hard if you are someone like myself or the OP who try to defeat everything that comes your way in-game. If you simply read the objective and try to accomplish it as swiftly as possible, its actually an easy mission. Fun too.

Good luck in the future, and hopefully you can understand to read each objective carefully and learn moderation of battle. Only fight the battles that must be fought. I’m sure I could quote Sun Tzu, but that would take me too long. Some people are just naturally wise. Not me.

I have read Sun Tzu so I know what you mean, but an MMO which is set up to be a place where you can spend time would arguably not be the best place to create situations where running away and skipping things is the best way to do something….

It also doesn’t fit with this idea about the player being the hero…which in this game the player really isn’t. As of this part of the game in fact the player’s character is an npc in a story that he/she just gets to be part of, sort of on the side line.

That never felt right for me.

Amazing how different people have different experiences.

The experience the OP is having now, I had from the very start of the game.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Darkness.9732:

Endgame is quitting this game for me. They haven t fixed ranger after 2 years and half.
No future guys no future

Other games haven’t fixed stuff in over 10 years, and those games still have a future.

Sure it happens in all games and people have quit over it in all games as well. At some point people accept what is or they had enough and end their suffering by doing something they should’ve done a long time ago.

I feel for the guy but really you shouldn’t invest time in a game’s potential. It’s not about what the game could be, but what the game is. I stopped when I realised it wasn’t what it needed to be and I certainly had no faith that Anet would change it.

I am intrigued at the moment because this expansion does remind me of a lot of things that worked in GW1, but then this isn’t GW1 so I am not sure if it’s going to work out either. Time will tell, I certainly won’t try it until the price drops on the expansion. Once bitten twice shy as they say.

Ceridwen.6703:

I get feared, run half a mile away, fall off a wall, and then spend an eon getting back up to the top because I take the least expedient route possible, and find it’s all finished up top regardless. This takes skill, you know.

XD

Others may indeed choose to brew up instead of that last step with the running round the long way.

Which makes me think it should be necessary in some way for us to be up top to deliver a killing blow and get a nice Skyrim/Dragon Age style cinematic of our awesomeness. Then someone should hand around tea and cake. Huzzah!

I like this idea. Good thinking there

Ceridwen.6703:

Gehenna.3625:

I do remember (vague memory) having to fight a particularly big foe in that area where all I had to do was sit down and let the npc’s do the work.

Made a nice cup of coffee and watched the screen sitting back. Oh… was that what you were referring to Ceridwen?

Heehee. That’s round two, about halfway through.

lol, that was hilarious. The reason I found out is because I was frustrated with the fight as I’d failed it a couple of times and just decided to make coffee and let my character die for this round. When I got back she was still sitting there and the fight was progressing just fine. It was funny and sad at the same time I guess hehe.

Berelious.3290:

The problem is that people still have the ancient MMO mentality that the level and the gear make the end game, and that isn’t how GW2 was designed. Gehenna, Alvagon, the very first thing you have to do before continuing is throwing everything you’ve ever experienced in previous MMO’s out the window, because GW2 is not now nor will it every be like them, and you’ll continue to be sorely disappointed if you keep that mentality.

No this is a false assumption. I played GW1 for about 7 years and so I was very used to playing a game without endgame gear progression. If anything GW1 is better at that than GW2.

I also object to you using the word mentality as if it’s a bad thing that people have different tastes. That’s just a bad attitude from your side.

Clearly what GW2 offers as endgame is not for everybody. GW2 is not revolutionary. It started on the live servers with Anet talking about slow gear progression with ascended gear and a level cap raise but not to soon. They wanted to take a middle road and offer the best of both worlds. In my view they got the worst of both.

GW2 has terrible story and voice acting.
The zones look really good but there are too many of them.
There are too many levels. Considering what levels get you from unlocks to skill points, there was never a need to have more than 30-35 levels. The rest is just grind.
While leveling you gain enough wealth to buy endgame level gear, so there is nothing pushing you to do more than that.
When I still played it was all about zerging bosses and looting and going around in circles in the same area.
Dungeons were mostly obsolete by default and very buggy at start.
Events are just more of the same. They can be fun but they were often too childish in nature.

So I stopped playing and that’s ok.

I am only here, in case that’s your next question, to see what this new expansion is all about and what I see is that they are going back to their roots of GW1 with this. Just not sure it will be implemented as successfully as it was in GW1 because GW2 simply isn’t GW1.

So really, you seem to like this game and that’s great. You call it revolutionary, I call it boring. The OP here seems to have the same experience I had.

It is of course all my opinion. The continued drop in sales of GW2 of about 10% each quarter however is factual and not my opinion. You decide what that means for you, I already know what that means to me.

But I’ve always said, also back then, that I do hope for the fans that the game persists. I do not gain anything from GW2 dying. In essence my hope is that Anet sticks around and learns from this and makes a GW3 that is much better than this.

I do remember (vague memory) having to fight a particularly big foe in that area where all I had to do was sit down and let the npc’s do the work.

Made a nice cup of coffee and watched the screen sitting back. Oh… was that what you were referring to Ceridwen?

GW2 never really had endgame from the start. They kind of went into it with legendary weapons and ascended stuff but by the time you level to 80 you have enough karma/gold to buy exotic gear right away and equip it. Anything beyond that is just farming for mats and gold as far as I can tell and you don’t really need that gear for most of the game. Oh and kiddie events and terribad story lines. I shouldn’t forget those. And the tetris dungeon of course.

GW2 looks great on the outside but for me it’s a game that looks pretty and is cutesie but isn’t more than that. Gear progressions has effectively been shot down now although the game does have the basis for it. What does that leave other than to farm/grind for other stuff that you could buy via the trading post alternatively?

I gave the game another chance last year. I leveled a toon to 80 and bought exotic gear instantly. Then there was some big event going on that I didn’t really get the point of (I was totally out of the story and missed a lot of this living story crap) so I didn’t really bother with it. Then I thought, right I guess I’m done. Logged out and that was that.

Clearly this game is not for everyone and the continued trend of GW2 sales going down roughly 10% every quarter seems indicative of the game losing more than gaining players, at least those who are willing to pay for it.

GW2 still costs 40 bucks around here. I don’t know many MMOs that keep that price so high after having been out for a few years but I guess they have to with a B2P concept. Just not sure how many people are willing to pay full price for a game that’s been out about 2.5 years. You could argue that the price sets a barrier for a lot of people in a world with lots of F2P options.

The expansion, surprising as it was that there is one, generated some interest so I came to have a look but so far I’m not sure will deliver, but I will wait with deciding until after it’s released of course.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Of course they did “it” better in GW1. GW1 was built for those purposes and those systems in mind as opposed to retrofitting something else to emulate it.

yeh that was kinda my point I guess.

I suppose I still have no idea what GW2 was built for exactly.

The storyline takes a turn for the worst around level 30 no matter which class you play. It wasn’t exactly great before that in my opinion but after level 30 it just goes from one type of ridiculous to another. I hope for your sake that you can stomach the next 50 levels because leveling up your character also gets more and more boring.

They probably should’ve stuck to 30 levels. It is true that elementalists are pretty tough to level up though but that has little to do with the actual story.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

They’re going back to those ideas because, I must say this is important . . .

A lot of people seem to enjoy what they had in GW1 over what they tried to do in GW2.

So, it’s a matter of “let’s keep the players we DO have”.

I think you are right, though I will say they still did it better in GW1 from my point of view. Perhaps in a bit more time it will be closer yet and more interesting to play again.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

lol, first they tick off a lot of the original fan base with their threats of raising the level cap and bringing in another tier of gear and now they have done a 180 on this as well… discuss all you want but this is just hilarious.

It’s probably too expensive to realise their original plan so now the tune has changed from "we will raise the level cap " to “we don’t want to invalidate people’s current efforts”.

Hate or love GW2…this is just so sad it makes me laugh.

Well, their original plan was to not have levels at all. That changed in development. Then we got to watch a slow trainwreck as they released the game about six months early based on the fixes which had to be shoved into place.

Honestly, I expect somewhere around Lost Shores when their first “one time only event” blew up their servers and . . . annoyed . . . a great big slice of the players? They shredded the original idea and worked instead on figuring out how to deliver something else close to it . . .

Sure but the cynic in me has to think back about what GW1 was and what Anet wanted to do different from GW1…well looks like they are returning slowly to their original GW1 ideas again. I find that ironic at best after all the noise they made about how GW2 was going to be so different.

I remember when they just announced GW2 and talked about how the expansions had made the world too big and people were too spread out in GW1. Well, they released GW2 with a huge world spreading people out all over. So they had to do stuff to bring people together again. Oh and they wanted to create a much bigger leveling experience because people supposedly wanted that. Well they went too far to the other side with 80 levels with progession in it that could’ve been done in 30 levels. So what have I heard? GW2 drops scrolls or something that give you a full level upon use? Sorry, have to laugh at that again.

All in all it probably is better for the game that they don’t raise the level cap. They wouldn’t know what to do with it. Maybe that mastery thing will be ok, but I won’t be holding my breath anyways. So far from what I’ve seen this expansion is somewhere between a GW1 and Aion expansion at full cost of course. I am not sure however it will have the same value as the GW1 expansions did.

You’ll have to decide on that. Adding a new class while adding specialisations that thin the lines between classes even more? I took an interest because of the new expansion buzz but I don’t expect I will buy it. Maybe later when you can get it for 5 bucks or something. Still, I’ll have a look here on the forum to see what people say about it when it goes live.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Varrg.2704:

….atleast find a better game.

I don’t think you’ll find a much better game than this.

I did, but it’s personal isn’kitten Not everybody likes the same things.

It’s great that people who have situations like the OP can find games like this to have such a great impact on their lives.

lol, first they tick off a lot of the original fan base with their threats of raising the level cap and bringing in another tier of gear and now they have done a 180 on this as well… discuss all you want but this is just hilarious.

It’s probably too expensive to realise their original plan so now the tune has changed from "we will raise the level cap " to “we don’t want to invalidate people’s current efforts”.

Hate or love GW2…this is just so sad it makes me laugh.

It’s a funny world when people generally get zerker gear and see it as a requirement for group content whereas you can gear stupidly and still beat the same content.

So the game doesn’t require it but the players do. Why? Cause they want to farm fast. Guess that’s all that matters.

Black Frog.9274:

Leveling couldn’t be any easier than it already is. Between crafting and just running from waypoint to waypoint, it’s laughable.

That’s kinda the real issue. Aside from most levels feeling like they are just there to be there, leveling is very easy, repetitive and the story unimaginative with terrible voice acting.

I only play this game once a year because that’s about as much as I can take. Of course each time I do have to get my account recovered because it gets hacked every year as well. Oh well, there’s nothing much to get on my account anymore anyways.

I do like some of the zones but for me there’s just too much of the same stuff without an engaging story and after about level 30-35 the levels just seem pointless. I think if they had only had 35 or 40 levels from the start instead of 80 the leveling experience would’ve been much better.

Oh well, this is that time a year again that I’m giving GW2 another shot. I suspect I’ll level a toon again and get bored and then it’s off for another year again. It’s just fun enough for once a year.

saye.9304:

Yargesh.4965:

You don’t try to control the adds that spawn while you damage the champ?

isnt the best way to control the adds is to wipe them out with damage,damage and damage?

yeh, this game was definitely made for you.

I understand the OP’s question but GW2 isn’t about tactics and builds. It’s about going out with a bunch of people and killing kitten. If that’s too shallow for you, then I suggest you think about why you are playing this game.

I play it once or twice a year for a week or two at most. Anything more seems a waste of time, but that’s everybody’s choice. Personally I’m just not a big fan of this silly event driven hack and slash MMO.

My view has always been that GW2 is graphically stronger than GW1, but the design team from GW1 was much better. Anyone can see GW2 has much better graphics but GW1 had graphics that drew you in and made you feel sort of at home. GW2 never had that pull for me. I only play GW2 extremely casually now, like once or twice a year for a week or two at most. It’s easy to let go of. GW1 I played constantly for over 6 years. It just drew me in, I wanted to be there. That’s the difference for me.

In GW1 I spend hours collecting over 50 elite armour sets, including some FoW armour sets. In GW2 I pretty much insta-bought the two armour sets I liked and I was done with the game. It’s always a matter of taste of course but yeh games like Aion still has cooler looking armour than GW2 even though it’s an older game. GW2 may graphically be more up to date, but again, it’s the armor design that is lacking, not the graphics power.

Bart Weird.9671:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

As chris said going to be hard to keep to a 3 page summary with this one but I’ll get started

Topics
*Fractal Resets
*Ascended Gear
*Horizontal Progression
*Vertical Progression
*Grind
*Art Progression
*Alts
*Gates
*Map progression
*Ascended creation time

As long you don’t raise the level cap or introduce a new tier of gear
I’m fine with it ;-)

If you want good vertical progression make some armor/skins obtainable for the costs based on legendarys with nice visual effects. Also i think there are still a lot of lvl 80 maps missing.

Refering to the fractal reset, it would be nice to give everyone who was able to get to the final stage (level 80) some title to honor their work :-)

Not that it means anything as they can always change their mind but they already confirmed that they were planning on raising the level cap. They just never said when.

Here’s a link from last year http://www.gamefront.com/guild-wars-2-level-cap-raise-confirmed-for-future/

Ascended armour is out then and people can get it in one day?

I’ll just call that amazing and leave it at that.

I’ve played this game about 2 weeks this year and a couple of months last year. I still occasionally come here to have a look but in the end the game just didn’t work for me. Perhaps Anet wants to know why a player left especially because the reasons involve this very topic: vertical and horizontal progression.

For me a game should have vertical progression or not. Not something in between. I was very upset whe ascended gear came out and the looming level raise cap that has already been mentioned by yourselves just made it clear that this game will have some sort of vertical progression but also kinda not. Call it half-baked or whatever you want but to me that’s how it feels. I don’t really like this middle of the road approach. Sometimes you can achieve something great by having sort of the best of both worlds but in the case of vertical progression in GW2, my feeling is that it’s neither…nor…

Also more levels make no sense to me. Leveling over level 30 already has a big sense of pointlessness to me as you don’t unlock anything anymore. Just more skill points in a skill tree system that again, doesn’t feel exciting. Perhaps you used LEAN principles a little too much in your design philosophy to the point that things lose meaning or flavour.

Exotic gear is also a problem. It’s too easy to get. I leveled a toon to 80 this year in those two weeks and by the time I was 80 I could buy a complete set of exotic gear. I was done. And then the ascended stuff is just too much effort for too little gain. There is no balance in there. I really feel that ascended stuff should’ve been about looks and not stats. If there is to be stat progression it should be more accessible. Not just a fotm grind.

So if I then just say oh well, I will ignore the fotm dungeon and just stick with the game itself in exotic gear and ignore the odd vertical progression, then I need horizontal progression. And sadly there the game fails me as well. In GW2, different as the game may be, I enjoyed collecting armour sets. There were quite a number of elite sets and it meant something to me to have my characters in such armour. Why did it work for me? The armours were not too easy to get but most also not too hard. Vabbi was harder and FoW armour even more so. The collecting of armors and also weapons was fun, could be grindy but still felt worth the effort. In GW2 it doesn’t work that way. It’s grind but not so much fun and I feel the quality of the design team is lacking. It’s just not as satisfying as it was before.

To me GW2 feels how D3 feels, compared to D2. Sure the game looks better graphically but it misses the atmosphere and sense of reward for achieving things.

So what else does GW2 offer for horizontal progression? To be honest, I’m not sure. I will say I really enjoyed doing the jump puzzles (not the event ones with a timer) that are around the world. But it’s not something I would repeat.

What this game does have is lots of events. Every holiday and reason has an event. It’s too much. It’s like having cake for dinner 5 times a week. It gets old and it forces people to participate in fear of losing out on something.

I could go on but what this game lacks is stability and balance in its approach. It’s all just here and now or total grind or pointless.

Vertical progression should either be taken out completely or should be sped up significantly and have a set frequency like new level gear once a year and be attainable for most players within that year for multiple characters and availabe through various play modes. Not everybody wants to grind fotm all year long.

Horizontal progression should be expanded. Designs of armour and weapons should not be in the either ugly/boring category or the OMFG dat totalleee pwns!! category. Player housing is one way of doing that. My wife still logs in here and there and she likes the winter holiday event, walking around with her norn in snowscapes and cooking stuff. That’s it and that makes it that she only logs in now and again. Just a couple of examples of how GW2 just doesn’t feel solid but kinda like the holiday event jumping puzzle. That’s not ideal for long term play.

I am sure a lot of people here don’t see things the same way but this is just how it is for me. Perhaps the devs can do something with it. I am not holding my breath but I still feel sad that GW2 disappointed so much. I really wanted to like it after having such a great time with GW1 and I guess that’s why I secretly still hope that something might still change to make this game interesting again. If not, I’ll see if there will be a GW3 in a few years.

dekou.6012:

So, what’s the point?

The point is that you can put the following in chat:

“LFM for X activity, ascended gear only!!”

I mean, who doesn’t want to be elite like that?

champ.7021:

oooooh thats why people are farming cof isnt it

we need a thread saying “Limit Ascended Mats to 20 Per Day”

And just as you posted that, someone in Seattle read your post and went…wow, that’s a good idea…we can even say we listened to the players.

But…. GW2 is grindy. I am not saying that’s all bad because some grind makes sense to me, but I think getting legendaries and such feels totally unrewarding and not worth the effort at all and it just is a long process getting mats together. There’s nothing epic about it except the grind or the cash spent on the TP. That’s what makes it boring and pointless to me.

Forum pvp is the best pvp in GW2. That’s all I will say about it, cause if I say it’s a children’s game some people might get upset again and I wouldn’t want that to happen.

Infernia.9847:

Food for thought. When asked about Legendary armor being introduced Colin came into the thread and gave an answer.
“Not anytime soon”
Source:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-legendary-armor-coming-out/first

Take from it what you will. At least the legendary armor has been in the database since release. I would be relieved if they implemented it. Grind once then done and if you change your build/traits all you do is click to change your stats.

Of course they won’t come soon. They first need people to grind for ascended weapons, then ascended armour and then a level cap raise….start all over with ascended gear for level 90 and then maybe legendary armour.

Danikat.8537:

That’s strange. I assumed it would be the other way around because the EU servers seem to only be used by people in Europe while people from all of the rest of the world play on the NA ones. (Generally speaking, I’m well aware there are some exceptions, but for example there are no unofficially Oceanic EU servers, they’re all NA.)

You need to check the world map a bit more. Europe has more inhabitants than the US by now. Russians tend to play on EU servers as well and Africa has similar time zones as well. Oceanic is not that big a group of people. I mean Australia is huge but hasn’t got much population going on.

There probably is a difference in how people game here in the EU and a bit more patience and loyalty perhaps for whatever reason. On the other hand you might say that the US players are a bit more decisive and realise sooner that they’re done with a game. Not saying either is better or worse, it’s just different.

NcSoft is in Korea…they are more interested in Asia. Anet’s offices might be in Seattle but if the EU has a stronger population and China is coming nest, it’s a bit sad for a company based in the US I guess that it’s turning out this way.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

dalendria.3762:

Morrigan.2809:

Colin did say that they want Ascended to be the last tier- thank the six!
Housing! YaY!

I watched this as well. He said that “he” hopes it is the last tier. He did not confirm that it will be the last tier.

He said he didn’t want to say it would be the last tier because 7 years down the road they might change their mind or someone might even buy the company, but as of now, there is no intention to add more tiers.

That’s a whole lot more than just he “hopes” it’s the last tier.

Why not just come right out and say it? Because any time anyone says anything, if it later changes at any point, people start calling Anet liars. I don’t blame him for hedging his bets.

So you agree that it is all pretty meaningless and if they change their mind they can announce new tier tomorrow.

Thank you.

No I didn’t agree to that at all. It’s because of people like you that he has to hedge his bets. People out there recording every single thing mentioned, discussed, thought about and calling it a promise.

I believe Colin has every intention of making this the last tier of gear and I believe that is likely to happen.

They made their own bed there.

Regardless of what they actually did or did not say a lot of people were unpleasantly surprised when they found out exotic was not the end of it. You can’t possibly deny the kittenstorm that it when ascended gear was announced. Anet even apologised in the end for how they handled it.

A lot of people were expecting a game with max stats set like in GW1. I believe that the original people who were working there years ago probably did have that in mind, but reality is it isn’t.

So people want some certainty from Anet and they’re not getting it. You’re right, they don’t want to make any definite statements with an eye on the future, but here’s the thing: a lot of people apparently do want a definite statement about this.

Anet is not owned by Anet for a while now. They don’t control their destinies any more. It is the reality of things and I understand why they don’t want to give a definite answer, but that’s just not good enough for a bunch of people out there.

And it’s their own fault that a lot of people have this expectation of them. Their tone has changed over the years and not everyone saw it. They certainly didn’t do anything to wake people up about it.

But this is what it has come to now. For me the reality is that the Anet I knew for years, no longer exists. For me that’s a harsh realisation because I very much enjoyed those years, but you can’t blame players for being upset about this.

It was a big discussion last year and it hasn’t been resolved to the satisfaction of the people who thought they were getting a game that had fixed max stats. Then it wasn’t and level cap raises were mentioned.

Say what you want Vayne, but this discussion won’t go away. It will keep coming back and it will only stop with all those people quitting the game.

It’s fair enough if Anet wanted to take a different direction, but they could’ve told people more clearly about this and they didn’t. They tried to sneak it in and it backfired.

Will the majority of players quit over this? I don’t think so, but it just doesn’t feel like they’ve been very honest over time.

Now they are being honest, a lot of people find out they don’t actually like what they are saying. Oh well, 3.5 million boxes sold…so kitten those players right?

There will always be differences of opinion on what is a lot….but it does look very boring to do regardless.

Riss.1536:

You should just try a Korean MMO. Then you will realize what is a true mandatory grind.

I know them. Just because cause they are triple bad doesn’t mean this isn’t bad.

Buffalo Sabres.1072:

Its fact? Go show me an MMO that has better graphics + gameplay that is released right now

Asian budget MMo’s are laughable compared

It’s not fact, because it’s a subjective statement. Who cares about asian budget MMOs? There is much more out there.

Gameplay in this game bores me. I like the gameplay in SWTOR much better, but that’s my OPINION. It’s not a fact. It’s about what I like.

Now GW2 does have some great graphics…technically. But as far as creating an atmosphere it fails completely. GW1 had more atmosphere than this game. Sure graphics are technically very well done, but evoke little to no emotion. When I was in the Shiverpeaks in GW1 it felt like I was in the snowy mountains. It was impressive. In GW2 I look at the shiverpeaks and think: that was pretty well done graphically, but I don’t feel like I’m actually there. That’s why GW2 graphics fail for me. They don’t pull me in, they don’t make me believe.

Anet said they don’t make grindy games. They did. Whether you choose to go into that grind or not is another matter.

If you can just walk around and not get bored by it, well done to you.

Buffalo Sabres.1072:

This game has better graphics and gameplay than any mmorpg out there right now and its not even close.

In your opinion. That’s of course allowed.

Yargesh.4965:

It is Multiplayer (470k online at once)

Oh that was a long time ago.

Let’s try again.

MMO is massively multiplayer online.

It is online as you said
It is multiplayer, although I think that the OP is saying that it’s not very good at that part.
It has failed me massively as a game.

So yeh I’d say it’s a MMO :p

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

So… you are quitting over something that hasn’t happened yet… makes sense to me!

If you’re in a bus that is slowly headed for a ravine, would you get off the bus or stay in because falling into the ravine hasn’t happened yet?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

You do realize that you and many others are QQing over something that may or may not even happen right?

You do realize that Anet themselves stated that Legendary Weapons would be bumped up to higher tiers so they can still bring in more tiers.

I don’t know if that also works for the level cap raise they are planning but in essence they left the door wide open for more tiers without ticking off the people with a legendary.

Piecekeeper.4361:

Vayne.8563:

Though I agree some things Anet have done weren’t well done, I say to you what I used to say to the management training class I used to teach. As a manager you’re literally going to make hundreds of decisions a day. Ten percent of them will probably be wrong. No one is perfect. The trick of being a good manager is to stand by what you’ve decided and work it through so you minimize long term damage with your mistakes.
.

As a manager for a company, I have to say I love what you said right there. It’s completely true.

Bravo.

Sadly it seems more managers are interested in covering their rear ends and pointing at others to blame instead of taking responsibility for the mistakes that you make.

But in essence I do agree with that statement, just wish there were more good managers by that definition

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

Most of the people who are complaining about grind are Guild Wars 1 veterans who claim there was no grind in Guild Wars 1. I’m saying same company, same game. It shifted from skills to gear, but there was still grind. It’s relevant because those who came from other MMOs, for the most part anyway, aren’t dying over this grind. Maybe they had time gating, which is another issue.

But the big discussion on this forums is that Anet lied to their core fans by having grind in the game, even though Guild Wars 1 that they loved had grind too.

This is a pattern over many threads, not just this one.

On the other hand, you could also argue that whether GW1 had grind or not, doesn’t change whether GW2 has grind or not.

I agree it’s silly to think that GW1 had no grind because it did, just like any other game out there….but it doesn’t change whether GW2 is grindy or not.

If you see this type of complaint as a pattern there’s an easy way to stop it. Stop enabling the pattern. You will never convince the people who keep bringing it up and if you keep responding to it, they just feel justified to bring it up again. That’s how I see it.

So then… what is the suggestion? An open world with no story? No events? no quests? Nothing to work towards? In a month half the player base would die of boredom and the other half would go crazy and start talking to raccoons in game.

No grind in an MMO turns an MMO into… a chatroom with pretty wallpaper…

Are you blind or do you choose to ignore the parts where I state grind is normal in any game?

Perhaps you should sit down, breathe in and out a few times and realise that what I am saying is not that I am not against grind by itself but that the fact that GW1 was grindy doesn’t change whether GW2 is grindy or not.

My main problem is not grind but the fact that it doesn’t lead to anything satisfying. So it’s pointless grind to me. That’s my issue with GW2, not that there is grind at all.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

I’d agree but I have faith that ANET is using the Living story as a platform to launch major continent expansion… look at all the current possibilities we have and where the living story has taken us… I could EASILY see Sea of Sorrows or Crystal Desert playing major roles in updates. This story is a tangled web with Scarlet pulling only one of the many strings….

Well, they did say they are using the biweekly updates to replace expansions, but I don’t know how much of a major update it would be.

My guess is that in about a year there will be a cantha update together with a level cap increase. Now, how many zones will we need to get from 80 to 90…? Do we need 1, or two or three? Don’t think it will need more than that. So I don’t know if the continent expansion will be that major.

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

Most of the people who are complaining about grind are Guild Wars 1 veterans who claim there was no grind in Guild Wars 1. I’m saying same company, same game. It shifted from skills to gear, but there was still grind. It’s relevant because those who came from other MMOs, for the most part anyway, aren’t dying over this grind. Maybe they had time gating, which is another issue.

But the big discussion on this forums is that Anet lied to their core fans by having grind in the game, even though Guild Wars 1 that they loved had grind too.

This is a pattern over many threads, not just this one.

On the other hand, you could also argue that whether GW1 had grind or not, doesn’t change whether GW2 has grind or not.

I agree it’s silly to think that GW1 had no grind because it did, just like any other game out there….but it doesn’t change whether GW2 is grindy or not.

If you see this type of complaint as a pattern there’s an easy way to stop it. Stop enabling the pattern. You will never convince the people who keep bringing it up and if you keep responding to it, they just feel justified to bring it up again. That’s how I see it.

lordkrall.7241:

So.. during the Bazaar month people complained about it only being mini-games and wanted something different.
Now this month we have had something different and then people complain about it being only farming.

I wonder what next month will be complained about..
No matter what they release people will always complain about it.

That’s one of the downfalls of temporary content and biweekly updates.

It seems smarter to give people time to get over their anger but Anet prefers to kitten people off biweekly.

Galen Grey.4709:

The classes in Gw2 dont dictate what you can and cannot do for the most part and that makes a whole lot of sense. I mean what possible reason can there be that a warrior cannot do control? In most MMOs Control classes can fear, cripple, debuff and stuff control do but warriors cannot do any of that because we’ll they’re DPS. What sense does it make that a little puny hunter/ranger type class can cause fear in enemies but a hulking warrior with menacing looking armor and a weapon larger then life cant. Why can a warrior taunt and enemy but a puny mage cannot? Gw2 uses classes mostly as a cosmetic system so to speak. There is a little bit of stuff one class can do and another cannot, just a few things which is fine but for the most part the difference between class is how they achieve things. If a necro wants to slow you? s/he raises skeleton hands to grab you. If you an elementalist wants to slow you they use the ice and if an engineer wants to stop you they shoot grease. etc…

Its a great idea in my opinion, If I like Magic and such I am not forced to give mages up as a class simply because I actually like to play support and in this game thats rangers I can play my role with the class I like the most.

the choices you make then which will matter are which aspects of what your class does you choose to fortify. You do that with your choice of stats and traits. You might argue DPS is the only viable choice and I do agree that to a degree its the best choice if all you want is to be as efficient as possible but its by no means the only choice.

For 99% of the content your choices don’t matter. You can equally divide your trait points equip two random weapons and let your little sister pick the right side of your skill bar based on which skills have the prettiest colours and you will still be able to level to 80 and complete all dungeons.

It may take a little longer if you know the difference and you will not be able to do high level fractals like that, but that’s why I said 99% and not 100%

Just make sure you are geared up, don’t even worry about the exact stats on them or the runes or whatever, it doesn’t make enough of a difference.

What makes a difference is that you have the correct level of gear and that you are good at dodging and ressing team mates. For that it makes absolutely 0 difference which class you play.

There is no reason for classes here but just a bit of flavour. They might as well have done a clkitten system where you just decided which skills you want to use.

The whole point of a class is that you are trained and are training in specific skills that allow you to fill certain roles.

It’s not strange to expect a warrior to walk up front and take the brunt of the damage while other stay behind or in the shadows.

If you don’t want to commit to roles and such, there is not point in classes at all. GW2 just uses the labels of classes to give people the idea there is a point to them, when in fact there isn’t really cause they can all do the same thing. They all can do dps and support, they all can do ranged and melee range damage and they all need to dodge insta kill and 30 circles of death to survive. There just is no point to a class division in this game. It could’ve done without it.

Just be a person and choose what you want to learn. Why can’t my mesmer shoot a bow? That also makes no sense then. It’s just whatever.

If you got bored leveling before, you will get bored again. Leveling is still the same and on most servers I heard about and the one I’ve been on, leveling is a more lonely process than before unless you have friends you can level with.

Namu.5712:

No people got on here and complained that there was nothing to do post 80 lol.

My complaint in that respect is that there’s nothing to do post 80 that I haven’t already done 20 times or more while leveling.

MikaHR.1978:

Gehenna.3625:

MikaHR.1978:

Gehenna.3625:

stale.9785:

Gehenna.3625:

HiddenNick.7206:

Guys… I’m still pretty skeptical about AN supposedly claiming that they don’t want any progression in there game. All those quotes you gave me are saying more or less that better stats are not going to be locked behind grind or difficult content. And people who never wanted any progression understood that as they liked.

There is nothing about stopping progression shortly after launch.

There is nothing like the claims of EQ:Next developers who strictly said that there will be no vertical progression in there game. And they are trying to sell their game with that! It’s not inconvenient for marketing by any means! It’s used rather as a sell point. So that’s why I can’t understand the acquisitions about AN changing their mind to sell more copies of their game.

This was the whole discussion when Ascended gear was announced. It hit like a truck for a lot of people who thought Anet wouldn’t do gear tiers. Anet then turned around and commented they never said they wouldn’t. They told us there could be more tiers but everything at a very slow pace and they said the level cap would get raised.

All in all, they didn’t say they were against gear progression but basically said that they’d slow it down and do it in such a way that, pardon the interpretation, every idiot could do it. So far they’ve been true to that.

Remember, absolutely everything BEFORE that implied there would be no gear progression. It was brought up post ascended, as they desperately backpeddled to not look like complete lying tools – which made them look like complete lying tools.

Oh I remember and I remember how angry I was about it. I wasn’t against gear progression but was against it in GW2 because I felt it has no place in this game.

The point is that they never said they wouldn’t and they also didn’t exclude the possibility of more tiers of gear afterwards.

I think a lot of people wanted just that game where stats were not the point and go along their happy ways enjoying the game for it’s interesting lore, challenges and cosmetics. Guess that wasn’t meant to be.

Yup, but since there are games that do it much better and properly (not half-arsed) why exactly stay in GW2?

I just enjoy the forum discussions. I have stopped playing the game.

It was more of a question for those who want vertical progression, since they will be first to leave with new WoW expansion, Wildstar and such while those who dont want vertical progression dont really have many (if any) valid options.

Then all who will be left in the game are people who dont give a crap either way, which will put you back to nov 2012 and discussion “why do we have new tier at all”

Well, if someone quotes me and asks a question the logical assumption is that you’re asking me.

I fully agree that this extra tier of gear is completely unnecessary. This game just makes no sense to me. Guess Anet just couldn’t escape human nature. Some people just need to show off that they have something another person doesn’t.