Guild Wars 2

Lostwingman.5034:

I swear if ANet leans on Braham’s character motivations and story as the basis of this class I’m going to flip a table.

Please bolt down your tables for your safety and the protection of those around you.

Talonblaze.3175:

I don’t hear you complaining about Guardians when everyone is “defending Tyria” either.

B-but… I’m not complaining.

Dragon Hunting is still the Guardian’s elite spec, regardless of if something is or is not performed better or worse. National Athletes are physical freaks, but we don’t expect them to do our heavy labor jobs, because there are people that specialize in sporting and people that specialize in heavy labor. Flavor text is all it really is, the same way we might tell ourselves we specialize in X activity as opposed to Y. Its the bows, traps, and mechanical changes combined with the flavor text that make the Dragon Hunter what it is, the same way we might walk into university and people tell us “this is how professors teach”. Is it the most effective way? Maybe not, but its how those professors teach, and they’ve specialized in that format.

This isn’t even reaching the topic of gameplay mechanics being disjointed from lore. As a Guardian, you probably expect to guard things, but the more popular of specs are either teleporting, bursty damage dealers, or somewhat selfish self-sustainers. There’s not much guarding being done in those instances.

Anyway, I think we’ve seen enough of both sides to be at peace in this discussion. I prefer to end things on a good note rather than a poor one, which often happens when things outlast their purpose.

Genesis.8572:

Ah, here’s the thing. The lore itself does not lend much credence to that idea. What the lore suggests is that giant armies of magical technology is what will bring down the elder dragons. So far our fights with almost all of the dragon champions and Zhaitan have required never required specialized dragonhunters but lasers, cannons, tanks, air ships, and everything else apart from bows, traps, and people who can sprout wings when jumping.

Ah, but have we seen what will happen once Dragon Hunters become prolific in the world of tyria? We haven’t yet seen what their effect will be on hunting and killing dragons. How would the lore help us when this is a new thing that has been created as a direct response to the Elder Dragon threat? What Dragon Hunters are we going to look to in Tyrias history to tell us how the future battles might go?

Drael.2015:

-more snips-

If the trap heal seems difficult, then you probably shouldn’t use it. I likely won’t if I find the risk to reward isn’t sufficient for my needs.

Adequate is viable.

We really don’t have much to talk about right now, so waiting for the stream to hit would be the most prudent choice. Then, once we have the information, we can complain if we so choose. I seriously doubt Anet (or any company) would intentionally spend time and money on something that would be less useful overall than what was currently offered. Even if you don’t like bows or traps, I’m sure the new spec will offer something for everyone, like those virtue changes for one.

Talonblaze.3175:

-snip-

I don’t hear you complaining about Warrior’s name when “everyone is fighting a war against the dragons”. To use another game as an example, Diablo 3 has Demon Hunters despite everyone killing demons at some point in the game. There’s plenty of potential inspiration for how the Guardian elite spec became Dragon Hunter, and surely people haven’t been exposed to enough of it with the stances they’re taking. I’ll say it again, a lot of the concepts mechanically and thematically were likely taken from Dragoons, Monster Hunter, and DnD. Dragon Hunters were seemingly formed as a SWAT team against the dragons. A more specialized and highly trained force to deal with the larger problems of everyday Tyrian life. We haven’t really seen anything from the other professions suggesting that they’ve decided to specialize against the Elder Dragons, Mesmers are fiddling with Time and another is going to be doing a whole lot of yelling. Who knows how effective that’ll be… I mean, it worked for the Dovahkiin, but he’s probably more of the exception than the rule.

And who’s to say the Dragon Hunters aren’t the best at what they do? Are you referencing the mechanics of not just the Guardian spec that hasn’t been released, but every other profession and spec which we still know so little of? They haven’t even released the traits for the Chronomancer, let alone the other specs or even the final numbers for all the proposed trait changes of the base classes. What kind of time traveling sorcery did you use to gain that information?

There seems to be an awful lot of name hate coming from a guy named Talonblaze

Genesis.8572:

I just don’t understand how the guardian is the one charged with hunting down the largest game.

Because we’re the hero Tyria deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll hunt dragons. Because we can take it. Because other professions are not our hero. We’re a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dragon Hunter.

What other class is themed to follow courage, justice, and resolve? Three virtues required to track and hunt down the largest game. Guardians have also been linked to taking inspiration to DnD Clerics. so here’s some other sources of inspiration they might’ve used.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon_
http://realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/prestige2.pl?class=Dragonslayer (man this was hard to get a decent link to)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY5qKxZfdwc

Dragon Hunter is a combination of the aesthetics of Final Fantasy style Dragoons/Dragon Knights, and Monster Hunter Hunters. Dragoons specifically hunt Dragons, and they live by a code to do it. Monster Hunter Hunters use traps and various weapons (Like Hammers, Greatswords, Sword/Shield, Longbows) to hunt and kill/capture large creatures, many of which could be called (or all called) Dragons. Dragon Hunter fits perfectly in the gw2 lore of a class creating a Code to hunt down and destroy Dragons. The utilization of traps and bows makes this easier, but nowhere are you required to use any or either of those tools.

And I also want to mention, having a more true Dragoon style spec would’ve been amazing, but that would require terrestrial spears (which are more of the Paragon’s domain in gw lore) and probably require Jump skills, which would probably be a nightmare to implement and balance in gw2 combat/engine.

Xaylin.1860:

I don’t think that “Dragonhunter” per se is a bad class name. But good lord… it just doesn’t make any sense in the universe of Guild Wars. Usually I’m very satisfied with ANet when it comes to lore but this just doesn’t make any sense. Every player is a dragon hunter.

Additionally it’s doubtful that the name makes sense from a gameplay perspective either. Why would it? Dragonhunters are unlikely to be especially useful against dragons since boni like these are incorporated into Masteries.

The name just feels too random to me.

Everyone might hunt dragons, but not everyone is a Dragon Hunter. Just like how everyone might fight in a war, but not everyone is a Warrior. The Dragon Hunter is basically a mix between the Final Fantasy style Dragoon and Monster Hunter’s… Hunters. Maybe I’m fine with it because I see the inspiration and I see where Anet needed to make a twist, but I like it. Now, it wasn’t my #1 choice in Guardian spec themes, but when Anet mentioned someone was going to get some trap access, I certainly did my daydreaming on what Guardian traps might look like, and I think tomorrow we’ll be in for a treat.

Johnny.1634:

Actually, by your definition it makes even less sense to have the Guard called a Dragonhunter. One of a dragons greatest strength is the ability to fly….. What are traps going to do versus an airborne enemy?

Go play some Monster Hunter.

Its basically styled after a Dragoon, but without the spears or jumping, so of course they had to go with a slightly different name for the slightly different aesthetic. I like it though, both mechanically and thematically.

They also reminded me of Monster Hunter. Bows, Hammers, Greatswords, swords, etc. Drop your traps to capture the monster as seen in the video, all that fun stuff.

Tarsius.3170:

So some are saying it’s a longbow and others a shortbow…

…compound bow confirmed!

Recurve rather. Range inbetween Long and Short, but with a flatter firing arc for faster projectile speed.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Recurve_Bow

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

-snip-

I was more referring to something like a Holy Burning that would be only accessible to Guardian, like Alacrity being specific to Chronomancer. You could apply regular burning, plus holy burning, and have them tie into each other. On top of that, traits for torment on burn, and you’ve got yourself a pretty good setup for pure conditions. Granted, stackable burning and the current iteration of revised traits are already getting fairly close.

I await new info with eager anticipation.

It looks like from the wording and feeling imparted by the info on specializations, we won’t necessarily lose access to things like trait lines, but rather the elite spec will take up one of our three choices, so you won’t have as much choice from the base specs

Why not halve the prot duration and apply it it both ranger and pet? You’re already in nature magic, so the pet will get the prot twice while you get at least a smidgen

I seriously doubt any of the current shout classes will get more shouts. That goes against the claim that elite specializations will give classes access to things they didn’t have before.

I feel like necro might get the shouts out of anyone. Traps I think might go to engineer if they want to keep traps in the medium professions, but I could see some holy themed traps for guardian. Drop a GW1 ray of judgment style trap, or a blind, vuln, and immobilize trap. I don’t expect guardian to get trap access though. Echos, chants, and arias I could see though. They would have to be different than shouts, but they could fit well thematically.

I’m really interested, because I don’t know what Anet has planned for us. The current changes already look pretty nice.

If they’re going that route, they should probably modify burning itself. You’ll have regular burning, and then guardian elite spec !super burning!. Or they could add traits like torment on burn or other nifty things.

The interesting thing, is things like condition duration are +40% or -40%, so they stack additively. Damage modifiers don’t have that + or -, so they’re multiplicative. We could likely assume mathematically chill and alacrity have that + and – in the code, with prot and vuln maybe being similar.

If you actually think about the implementation, F5 should last for a duration based on the amount of illusions you shatter (and likely have a very prohibitive cooldown). You won’t be able to reset fights willy nilly, but rather jump into an area, nova, then hop back out.

Regardless, we’ve got the blog post coming soon to more fully explain things anyway

Condition damage builds wouldn’t get that much from the trait, and symbols are true aoe skills, which means it could proc that might once per pulse if you’re hitting 5 targets.

Both Smite becoming a symbol and the scepter trait have potential, but what we get at launch will actually determine what happens.

Smite really needs to be a symbol though. It wouldn’t be difficult at all to consolidate the damage into 3, 4, or 5 seconds of pulses. For a weapon with no symbols being in a traitline that is based around symbols, it makes it very difficult to see where the synergy lies.

I wouldn’t call this condi build, not work having around 300 more power (excluding base) than condition damage. It’s more of a power heavy hybrid if anything. Also, I can’t see what traits you have because I’m on my phone, but the heal based on condition damage done isn’t quite worthwhile yet, and once it is your build is likely to change some anyway. I’d probably go with Dhuumfire instead. I also would take the minion damage if you haven’t already because minions don’t scale based on your stats.

If you still wanted a hybrid style build, you could just use full minions or mostly minions with the minion trait and go full condition damage. the minions will provide your power based damage, and you can focus only on conditions. If you wanted to keep your hybrid style stats you could go full sinisters, full rampages, or full carrion. also consider full rabid as a mainly condition based set if you were to take my previous suggestion. Also, accepted scale poorly work power (except scepter 3), so there’s that to consider as well.

Staff skills don’t require getting hot with chaos armor to recharge faster either, just to have it active. Honestly, in gw2 you’re going to take “ambient” damage from doing any game mode, but some things are designed to benefit being hit a lot, and I think they’ve decided mesmers probably won’t want this.

Consecration skills in gw2 consecrate an area of land, which is what the Consecrate/Desecrate spells did in DND, which is where gw2 got a lot of inspiration from (they’re cleric spells, and guardian was specifically designed with the DND cleric in mind).

Neither heal nor the tomes fit within those constraints, so it’s a bit far to claim them consecrations outright. Also, why would you make both tomes consecrations when you could make one a different skill type to increase the diversity?

That wasn’t my point. You can bit quite a few people with larger symbol radius. You can hit even more with cannon traits. Auras aren’t shouts either, so why would they need shout radius? One of the most similar traits to aura share is Communal Defenses, which has no target limit and provides aoe aegis in a 360 radius. Something similar to that should be perfect.

Boons have a stack cap at 9, except retal which is 3 or 5, can’t remember. Likewise, condition duration stacks cap at 9, but that’s no longer an issue for damage. Immobilize caps at 3 or 5 similar to retal.

Assuming I’ve remembered this all correctly mind y’all. 9 stacks of duration is certainly the norm though

240 is the size is large symbols, 360 is the size of cannon fire. 240 might be small but 360 is plenty

Metabattle is built around popular opinion. I also never mentioned anything about whether it was “good” or not (we haven’t even defined what good means). All I said was it has a build defining use.

But please, continue to complain. Considering your other posts and signature, I wonder if you’re ever happy at all.

Sebrent.3625:

Bran.7425:

We just need a honey badger pet.

/thread

I think it’s settled then. We just need to rename the trait “Honey Badger’s Apathy” and call it good

I was going to go for a similar build, but with a few changes:

In Marks I’d take signets, perhaps 3, but at least stone and wild.
I’d go nature magic instead of wilderness survival, with bountiful hunter, windbourne notes, and protecting ward
BM, might take shouts with HaO and RaO for that juggernaut feel. It depends on how those perform. Of I take shouts, I might change windbourne notes for vigorous training or evasive purity, it depends. Otherwise, as stated.

I feel like I’d be getting more out of NM than WS, but really I’d probably like to keep my original build, which went 2/0/6/6/0, but that cannot be

I never specifically said I thought it was important, just that our was deemed so. Likewise, you might not have 100% proc on vigor depending on your build, or perhaps you have extra boon duration so PoB isn’t as useful. Perhaps PoB will be able to stack with vigor. A lot of these questions deal with multiple factors that we can’t quite make blanket statements for.

Regardless, it looks fine like it is, and probably shouldn’t be very high on the priority list for changes

naphack.9346:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Well, that would be why it’s called “Most Dangerous Game”. You get a large benefit for staying in a risky situation.

Just imagine running around with an axe and Nature Magic. So much glorious might.

Nah. The name comes from the fact, that cornered beasts are the most dangerous. The name basically implies, that whoever drives you into a corner will regret it. The name isn’t about intentionally staying in a risky situation for the thrill of combat as some sort of game.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de/definition/englisch/game
5) [MASS NOUN] Wild mammals or birds hunted for sport or food:
“they hunted game in Alaska”

It’s a play on words, which works in English easily, but perhaps not in German.

Communal Defenses provides aegis to allies when you block an attack through any means (Aegis, Mace 3, Shelter, etc). Of course, the Aegis traits only proc from aegis.

Well, that would be why it’s called “Most Dangerous Game”. You get a large benefit for staying in a risky situation.

Just imagine running around with an axe and Nature Magic. So much glorious might.

Of the 4 off hand weapons available to ranger, 2 are condition based (dagger/torch) and two are power based (axe/warhorn) two are damage based (axe/torch) and two are utility (dagger/warhorn).

Warhorn 4 has its uses, but perhaps if we need to add something (which is already being talked about), something utility based would be ideal

If Guard were to have any sort of control effect, I think displacement would be the best fit. One would send the pet of into the area to guard, and upon reaching that location every valid target would be teleported 360u away from the pet. Until that happens, I’m inclined to let Guard retain its current functionality.

Yes, with the old numbers, I’ve procced over 167 counts of shattered aegis (I didn’t get them all, they filled up my entire combat log) on Teq, dealing somewhere in the ballpark of 100k. With increased base damage and scaling, this could be even nastier when the situation arises. And that’s the whole point of the trait, to get into those situations and make the most of it.

I completely forgot I hadn’t actually commented on this. I’m in a similar boat, learning I’d need to replace my gs as escape. What I might do, is go shouts like you discarded, but keep signer of might, as I agree it’s an incredibly useful trait with KS.

Then again, they might overhaul kill shot and make it something completely different. If thief gets rifle access, I could see KS becoming their stealth skill, which makes more sense thematically. In any regard, I’m probably going to go two shouts and SoM with sword/warhorn unless the specialization is particularly compelling

You realize metabattle isn’t the end all of builds. Burst precision has a distinct and build defining use as does burst mastery.

Unfortunately I to was rubbing IP and Ricochet, both combined with 100% crit chance and Signet of Malice. Out was something I loved, as on an average unload I could be healing 4.5k or more. I think I’ve accepted my fate however, and I might end up going to venom share if nothing else changes. Perhaps condi p/p might be worth looking into.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_VenomShare

I like the changes for the ninja medic. I’m a big fan of the playstyle. My other thief is actually a non meta p/p ricochet built around 100% crit chance, IP, and signet of malice for sustain. Sadly that build is dead (rip in pieces). This should be interesting for all the other builds that abuse stealth, like thieves getting “trapped” inside an enemy tower and stealthing off of walls. It does seem like an incredibly tempting line for almost anyone

Healing Spring in gw1 was a trap that didn’t need an activation trigger. Regardless of the source I think it would be fine to activate, wait for arming, and have it go off, no other requirements needed. Arming time could be factored into cast time is necessary.

Glad other people noticed some of the condi numbers. It looks like, should the condition caps come off entirely, conditions would learn in effectiveness individually, but in group settings still hit high. Another thing to notice is confusion looks like it will tick per second and on skill use.

There’s also going to be a whole announcement about conditions, so that will likely explain what we’re seeing

Plus, you can do Death Nova and Putrid Defense instead of Flesh of the Master for your defense, as Death Nova encourages you to cycle through your minions (and synergizes well with lich runes). Necromantic Corruption will allow you to retain the FotM bonus for longer.

The two minion traits support different kinds of MM styles. This was certainly the case in gw1. I could see scepter builds taking Necromantic Corruption and Unholy Martyr (and that one signet I forget) to send back conditions from allies, or perhaps a staff necro could take Parasitic Contagion, Necromantic Corruption, and Dhuumfire to make a fairly self sustainable MM.

Death Nova gives you your cyclical army style, where you minion bomb places and quickly raise a new army.

It certainly seems like MM is going to be more important than before.

I think Purity of Body is deemed important for Honor, as it allows for more dodge rolls, which are bread and butter for the line.

Virtuous Mallet seems out of place in virtues, and it interrupts the master for each virtue. Perhaps either SJ and AR move up to emphasize specializing in one virtue particularly, or VM moves down (or moves to honor. Prot impact?) and IC is split.

Why do you think my guardians are female?

I think that’s the biggest change, is that you don’t have to build for precision nearly as much anymore. You can run with 60% crit chance (RP, RHS, Fury from Meds) without needing literally any precision, so in essence you’ll have ~65%+ in full Soldiers, Valkyrie, Cavaliers, Clerics, etc. In PvP it sounds like Valks will be a strong choice, and WvW will be a good mix of Valk, Cav, and soldiers. This doesn’t even factor into rune or sigil choices, so if you went even more into crit with say, Accuracy ( +7%) and Pack ( +~6%), you can really avoid speccing for any precision at all.

All of your gear can start putting directly into defense in addition to your power and ferocity which should make you much more survivable than the traditional zerker. Focus will now be giving you prot if you trait for it, or Smiters Boon will be giving you an extra 2k health and fury and damage, making Shelter or Litany decent options. And this is just talking about 2 lines. You still have Zeal, Honor, and Virtues to consider depending on what you want. So yes, maybe you give up some modifiers, but you gain so much more survivability and options for utility.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

Notes for everything on the stream. Under each profession there chit chat about what was baked in, other commentary, etc