Hey Jester! Nice to see you on the Ranger forums! Was a big fan of your Mesmer builds
Concerning Short Bow: People consider it great for several reasons:
- #1 causes Bleeding while flanking and in combination with the 25 Skirmishing Minor Trait ‘Hunters Tactics’ and decent Power + Crit you hit quite fast, since the auto attack speed is pretty high. also synergises well with the Crit Sigils Fire and Lightning.
- SB #3, 4 and 5 are 100% projectile finishers. with the Ranger being the class that easily has access to the greatest variety of combo fields, this creates nice synergies especially in condition focused builds.
- SB grants great mobility with the #3 jump-back (comparable to Staff #2 on Mesmer, but not a Leap-Finisher)
- decent CC with #4 Snare + Pet buff and #5 stun.
- all in all a well rounded range weapon.
if your gf wants to stick with longbow, I as a Greatsword fan can only shed a few tears of sorrw: Greatsword is really awesome in PvE!!!
anyway, Longbow:
I personally find that Longbow synergises well with a Signet build. I am using something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBjODbkoKyOxywC1OQsesHCNomCN1fmCDxoU2xXezB-TIAg0CnA
I left gear mostly blank cause I think its really up to you in PvE. For most endgame content I would say the same is true for any class: Berserker > all. Especially in high level fractals boss mobkitten so hard that either with 26k life and 2200 toughness or full berserker gear you’ re going to drop in 1 hit. So might just as well do massive damage in the meantime.
If you are looking more for a heavy survial build you could always use the already mentioned: 0/0/30/10/30 build. with right gear you can reach up to 600hp/sec without using a healing skill with that, making it almost impossible for normal mobs to kill you. you will have to go conditions or your damage wont be great though. (e.g. Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAT3fjEVR2JWGWo2Bi2DNZeM9eke13eXhRlyO+ybOA-jAyAIOBZSAM5JQ5xioxW2KiGremIqWZjZxLiWtMAmjB-e)
Generally I would recommend to you to listen to the 3 episodes of the Arrow to the Knee Podcast. They give out nice infos.
Concluding:
General rules for PvE that I consider to be true:
- DONT use bears. it is true, the litteraly dont die but they suck on any other aspect. Drakes are almost as beefy but are a LOT better ( AoE auto attack, Blast finisher every 30 seconds, F2 Abilitiekitten like a truck)
- Conditions are ALWAYS worse than Direct Damage in PvE due to their mechanic:
A condition that stacks either duration or intensity will always use the condition damage used by the person applying the last stack. And since almost every class has some skill that applies either bleeding or burning as a side effect, you seldomy are going to be able to use our conditions to their full damage potential. - Greatsword is a great defensive weapon and always worth it to have with you. the #1 Chain has a 1 second evade, #2 hits like a truck, #3 is a 1200 range leap-> great mobility on 8 sec cd if traited, #4 3 second block + knock back, #5 120 range stun. like the Shortbow a very balanced and well rounded weapon (though many including myself think that #2 should also be a black finisher since we really lack those).
- If using a Longbow I would recommend using the 2 sources of quickness that ranger has access to: Quickening Zephyr and Zephyr’s Speed (5 point Beastmaster Minor trait). They synergizer very well with LB #2 and #5, which are both channeled and have a high damage potential. Quickness is especially nice with #5 Barrage, since the skill will ‘go on’ for several seconds after you have finished channeling it. and the sooner you stop channeling, the sooner you will be able to move again. Also make sure you have signet of stone ready when using Barrage in a PvP scenario cause most Burst classes consider a LB ranger using it free loot.
Alrite, wall of text I hope this helps you a bit and I hope you will enjoy your Ranger just as much as we do!
thanks again for the feedback.
@ Ayden: so I am evidently not the only weirdo considering clerics as a viable Zerg set up. Your build looks very similar to what I posted above and it looks like I could easily pitch in around 500 Healing Power without sacrificing too much elsewhere.
The inherent question then would be: Is it worth it to stack healing Power if you are not using the 2 passive sources of Healing the ranger uses: Natural Healing and Signet of the Wild?
@Som, your Build sounds interesting too!
I am surprised you are complaining about damage, though. When running with soldier gear and with 10 points into Nature Magic I found my Power to be well beyond 2k and hence my attacks, eventhough non crit, to be hitting like a truck. No one likes to be struck by a 1500 non crit Maul
@Roe
Valroth’s Build actually made me choose Ranger as my main (over Mesmer and Guardian)! awesome build!
But I think his build is definetly lacking on the defensive side. 15k HP simply isn’t enough for my taste and the heavy Pet focus is not gonna work to my benefit in large scale fights.
Plus he is using a lot of passive healing while having little healing power, which bugged me too
No. You’re not going to be able to stand in the middle of zerg and tank damage indefinitely. Despite what someone else said, smaller, well-organized zergs regularly take down larger ones (at least in T2) – but they do so by charging in to burst, then quickly retreating, regrouping, and repeating. In other words, a cleric bunker build is precisely the wrong build to run for tactical zerg-busting. You want a build with decent to high burst, but also with enough survivability to endure a few moments in the heart of an enemy zerg.
I’ve been using a trap build lately, but I’m about to switch back to a signet build full-time. With SoS, SotH, and SotW actives, a ranger can swoop into a zerg, provide good burst, and retreat to do it all over again. A trap build is also effective, though, since no one has enough condition removal for all the crap flying around in zergs. The trick is to throw your traps where the bulk of the zerg will be – not where they are. In most cases, this means just planting traps at your feet, since competent zergs will push through to your back lines.
thats exactly what we are playing in T2 EU, too.
And exactly the core of my question:
We charge in, hit hard, retreat, repeat. But: I found that with 26k HP and 2100 Toughness i am well surviving a push but wont be healed back up once we push back in.
So I thought it might be more effective to settle with around 17k health and 1200 healing power with a good bit of self heal to be able to live through those fights.
Because the one big problem with 26k health and no healing power is: Once you eat a big it: you are dead. with decent healing power you jump out, wait 10 seconds and are at almost 50% live again without even having to waste your water field.
Cempa.5619:Cleric Power Bow Regeneration is one of -if not the- strongest WvW builds the class has. Just keep in mind you might get board really fast from being so OP.
I d also love to see the build you are talking of! Would you care to share it?
(edited by Gorath.5076)
(edited by Gorath.5076)
When i see a ranger as ele i would RTL away.
Are you guys kidding me here? It’s a freaking ranger! No matter what gimmick bunker build they’re running, it’s still a freaking ranger and therefore a free kill.
Rofl, ahh I use to love Elementalist before PI nerf, Was so funny watching them die in seconds.
Now it takes a little longer, but it still ends the same
thanks Xsorus, I tried to put it a bit more diplomatic up there
with Xsorus you have a real pro talking. Taking him and his build as a parameter I am convinced that a Ranger can beat an evenly well played D/D Ele anytime. It will be a hard fight but he will win.
I use the same build at not the same skill level but still never felt ‘free loot’ for any d/d Ele that jumped me 1 vs 1. never.
to back up my xsorus endearing
one of his latest videos:
And if you go to their forums they talk about how broken they are……like, what more do you want? Like do you want the pet to actually eat the other player in one bite and then sh——- a picture of the player’s decomposed body on the player’s class forums?
ranger certainly is one of the strongest classes to duel atm.
But apart from that we lack a lot:
- No real reliable AoE.
- No Blast finisher.
- No stability apart from our 120 sec CD Elite, ok which lasts 22 seconds
- No real burst (there are burst builds out there but they arent the most optimal style of play in my eyes.
- Really bad group support. Our Spirits just die way to quickly
- (at least in my eyes) Useless shouts
- Propably the worst: Anything a Ranger can provide, another class can do better and makes us second choice in almost any scenario.
but what we certainly can do very very good is crack eles wide open in 1vs1
If a ranger runs a condition build with Axe/Torch/Sword/dagger, their weak spot certainly is either Condition over, since their only active condition remove is on a 40 sec cooldown or their heal skill,
Or: high damage burst.
The way the BM bunker ranger works is that he can regen about 500 hp/sec (+-50 depending on gear.) with ~ 17.000 HP. Which means they can get their health back up in 34 second if taking no damage, without using a heal-skill.
Thats what you have to counter. For me in sPvP I found that mesmers that get a full burst of on me are my greatest enemy.
Plus, apart from monarcs leap on sword #3 the bunker ranger is pretty immobile, too. which you might wanna use to your advantage.
Also keep in mind not to burst, when the Ranger is on his Sword/Dagger equip for there he has 4 evades + 2 normal dodges and can pretty much negate any burst if not knocked down or stunned otherwise.
I dont know much about eles. but maybe this will help
4. Pets
To suplement our role as a CC-Master, 3 pets really shine:
- Polar Bear
- Ice Drake
- Pigs
Polar Bear and Ice Drake both are very sturdy and provide AoE Chill. There are other Pets that can chill but are rather likely to die in AoE, like the Snow Owl and Alpine Wolf. The White Moa might be an intresting alternative though, due to his AoE healing at still realtively high defensive stats. If this can outshine the 5000 Vitality (!) of the Bear or the Blast finisher of the Drake is yet questionable.
Pigs are an odd choice but provide knock-down while being sturdier than canines.
5. Playstyle
There are two parameteres which are to be served:
Crowd Control
Survive
You wont be pumping out hughe numbers with this build. Your task will be to restrict the enemies ability to move on the battle field and hence keep them from positioning for a counter attack as well as forcing them to use their Condition-removes to counter your heavy cc, which then wont be ready to get rid of the more frequently applied burning and bleed effects.
Traps are to be placed in the enemies movement direction. Afterwards you try to flank and pump out as much damage as you can, making use of the Skirmishing 25 Minor Trait, send in your pet and throw in more traps as they come off cooldown.
Yet, it is recommended to wait with your Utilities until the second attack of the enemy team. Most skills on their side will then be on cooldown and the chill will be even more devestating.
Also again keep in mind that most people don’t expect to be chilled for up to 15 seconds and will be struck on the wrong foot.
Generaly zerg-movement is ofc a given and try not to focus on certain targets but to spread your CC around as much as possible.
6. Theorycrafting
Having said this, it was the question whether Condition Damage (CD) or Direct Damage (DD) was the way to go for this build an chose the equipment accordingly.
Balduran put quite some research into this and created several simulations, using the above Gear set-up with Axe/Axe and a Carrion/Rabid Set-up with Axe/Axe and Axe/Torch.
Point of reference for the simulation was the Effective Health, which was at about 31.000 at 2850 Armor.
[img]http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/simulationwaldh0r5ba67od.png[/img]
According to the Simulation, the CD build appears supperior.
But it is important to keep in mind that:
Axe/Torch deal about 13k Damage over 20 seconds according to the Graph posted above.
But since we want to force the enemy to use its Condition Remove to get rid of our CC, most damaging conditions will be purged in the process. Most Condition Removes have a cooldown inbetween 20-30 seconds.
Hence for a condition build all conditions will be removed once every 20 seconds in a worst case scenario.
The main portion of the condition damage will be coming from the torch, with a relatively high cooldown. As a matter of fact, since torch CD and Condi Removes behave in a similar way, one might say that about 50% of the damage output will actually reach the target. This can be seen as the green curve jumps upward, this is where the high burnind damage kicks in.
According to the simulation the CD build will be inferior to the DD build by 32% and hence giving the DD build the edge.
Thats it from my side so far.
Again: All credit goes to my guild mate Ba(a)lduran, who put quite some work into putting those numbers together and came up with the idea of a Chill focused CC build.
I think chill is great and the Ranger just the right person to throw it at an enemy zerg.
Winter is Coming!
I will be looking forward to your criticism
(PS: Baalduran is also our dedicated streamer maybe you wanna check some time on http://de.twitch.tv/baalduran )
Hey Guys,
my Guild-Mate Balduran recently came up with a, to me, new type of Ranger-Build which I would like to share with you and get your feedback about!
I am not a native speaker, merely trying to translate what Balduran shared on our forums. So please excuse me any lapses, I promise I am trying hard
I. Introduction and Purpose
We are running a guild team of 20-25 Members for GvG fights and Zerg-busting on Kodash. For our certain style of play it is essential to restrict the enemies movement on the battlefield as much as possible in order to deal the maximum amount of damage. Of course the Hammer/Staff Guardian is predestined for such a role, with his Circle on Hammer #5 and the Wall on Staff #5. Yet we were looking for someone to provide an additional, more consistent way to control the movement of the enemy group that cannot be countered by stunbreakers and stability.
The answer was: CHILL
and hence he came up with the Ranger build I will try to line out to you below.
This comes from me now:
For me, chill is one of the most awesome CC conditions in the game. Not only does it slow your enemies movement by 66%, rather than the 50% Cripple can achieve. It also increases the recharge time of ALL the targets abilites by 66%, which is great!
In the current situations, if groups of 20+ players clash most people just dish out all that they have and will be stuck with very long cooldowns. Also Chill is a rather unique condition. As far as I know, apart from the rangers Frost Trap only the Staff Ele is able to set an Ice Combo Field, which can provide Ice Armor (10% Damage Reduction) to you (leap) or 5 Targets (Blast).
Be aware, that his is not meant to be a damage or burst build so don’t expect too much on these terms
2. The Build
here you can find the entire Build written out.
Utilities:
Healing Spring
Muddy Terrain
Frost Trap
Spike Trap
Entangle
Quick word about the trait choices:
The main CC is supposed to come from the traps, hence reducing their Cooldown, increasing their Radius and the duration of the effect applied by them appeared mandatory.
Apart from that we agreed that the traits could be spent more or less arbitrary. He here focused on survivabilty and mobility.
Here he focused on preserving the rangers ability to get out of the way quickly if things turned ugly. This builds focus is to put the enemy on ice and hence CC him as much as possible. Survivability is key.
Concerning the utilities, one might think about switching some traits around and add the Frost Spirit for it also has an AoE Chill field (Not a Combo-Field though) which can (through a trait) also be applied when the Spirit is being killed.
I personally am no big fan of Entangle since the roots tend to be torn apart by AoE damage pretty quickly and am running with Rampage as One instead. ~20 sec Stability is just too great in a GvG situation.
Another interesting choice might be the Grenth racial of the humans since it also has an AoE Chill!
3. Gear
In the setup posted above he used Axe/Axe – Sword/Horn, but really this build can propably be played with a lot of weapon sets.
It is important though to use Axe in at least one Weapon-Set for the #3 singe target chill and the #2 5-times-Combo finisher.
Also, if you look at the sigils, he is using Sigil of Chilling and Sigil of Hydromacy on either weapon set. Chilling will increase chill duration by 10% (with 6x Rune of Ice and the Rare Veggie Pizza Buffod adding up to 70% increased chill duration) and hydromacy will give AoE Chill for base 3 seconds to 5 targets around you on weapon swap. Hence, you will want to run 2 one handed weapons, rather than a two-handed one.
I personally run Greatsword with Sigil of Hydromacy and Axe/Warhorn with Chill/hydromacy and am still fine. Really I guess this will to some extend be up to the users choice.
On the armor you will run 6x Rune of ice. Giving you + 20% Chill duration, a 5% Chance to proc AoE Chill when being hit and +5% Damage against chilled foes.
I go into the stat choice in the theorycrafting section below.
(edited by Gorath.5076)
(edited by Gorath.5076)
Evening everybody.
Does anybody have a decent Blog or something concerned with gw2 Rangers?
Or do you know of a Ranger playing Streamer doing sPvP or WvWvW?
I would really like to improve my game using some good examples
(edited by Gorath.5076)
Maybe we will have to meet up on the borders one day and you have to show me. Cause what you say sounds romantic and awesome but is quite far from what I have experienced..
In my case it was more like: If I went in straight with my tanky build + gs and aoe pets:
I stood just as long or even longer as any first grade tank but didnt even come close to makeing as much damage/BAGS (!) as others.
In another scenario I used a shortbow/piercing arrows/damage build and found myself senselessly firering my autoattack into the crowd, feeling very useless and finding that if two or three skirmishers decided to turn around, I was eating mudd quite often …
I came to accept that my damage wasnt going to be exceptional and hence stuck to crowd control …
I am giving you a quite bitter image here
but I have to admit that I sometimes am quite frustrated with my beloved Ranger in our Guild Zergs …
Where is that kitten ‘LIKE’ button when it would once be usefull …
Great infos guys! You just made my day by giving me a ton of new input to think about for my glamour build
One question though:
How much condition damage do I have to stack to be effective with this? Cause full Carrion + Berserker leaves you with almost no passive defines …
And is it compulsory to go into Duelling rather than Inspiration for the cd reduction?
@playandchill you said you would loose too much crit + crit damage. But Confusion cant Crit anyway, right?
Thanks for the comprehensive Answer CRabbit
I am now playing around with all the Info you guys gave me and will hopefully be able to give you some feedback soon.
(edited by Gorath.5076)
(edited by Gorath.5076)
Evening Guys,
I was just about to make a new Threat with a Survival build I plan to be using in WvW. Maybe this is the right spot to ask your opinions, though.
Here is the build:
What I plan to be doing with it:
I run in a 20 man Guild Zerg most of the time. So Damage is not a primary goal of this build. It is much more about: Jumping into the thick of battle, drop the Muddy Terrain and my pets F2 abilities for CC and stay alive long enough to pick up the downstaters with quickness.
I use the drake hound for its shackle and the Wolf for its 2 sec Fear (alternatively the Wolf can be replaced with the Alpine Wolf for the Chill). Some people argue, that the F2 Abilities of especially the canine pets have a way too long cast time to be used effectively in WvW. In combination with the 2 sec Quickness from the first Minor Beastmastery trait and the low swap cooldown from the 15 point Minor Beastmastery trait I found them to be quite effective, though.
As a Ranger to be able to Jump right into a melee Battle and cast what ever CC I explained above I put a lot of emphasise on survivability. So my first weapon choice is GS with Longbow as second.
They both profit most from the 2 sources of quickness you gain in this build, being Quickening Zephyr and Pet-swapping.
Further I went for Barkskin and the Beastmastery trait granting your pet regeneration which also applies to you, even though it doesn’t say so in the tool-tip (I think its about 320 hp/3 sec).
Concerning the other choices I made:
I chose Healing Spring over Troll Unguent for the Combofield ‘Water’ which is quite nice to have on a battlefield even though I’d personally prefer the Troll Unguent for its synergy with Barkskin in any other situation.
Quickeing Zephyr I already mentioned briefly: Quickness. Very good with the third step of the GS auto-attack which grants evade and off course with the Longbow #2 and #5 abilities.
Second utility had to be Muddy Terrain for the CC.
Third was tricky now. Since this is mainly a melee build I had no trouble taking Spike Traps in even though its not traited. A cripple+bleed on my location at a 25 sec cool down seemed to go well with the general set up. The Build however lacks a stun breaker and generally abilities to deal with CC. Hence I chose Lightning reflexes instead.
The Ultimate is really up to you: I chose Rampage as one for the extra pet Buff + Stability, you could just as well pick Entangle though for extra CC. Cooldowns are the same and each one has its benefits.
I’d be glad to get some feedback from you guys, since most people consider me and my love for tanky Rangers in WvW a lost cause
Best,
Gorath.