Guild Wars 2

Actually, you got me thinking, Kasama.
When I get home I’ll try some things you proposed over your last few posts, e.g. the MT +drakehound combo. That might actually work. But that brings you back to chopps hydralisk CC bomber ..

Well I think soft cc also has it’s niche in the current melee train meta, mistsim.
The backline (staff ele, mesmers, necros) only survive due to their ability to dodge that mass of wildly swinging barbarians (melee train often reminds me of those Asterix comics …).
Root, cripple and chill them and they might get caught. And a root is actually pretty good for that, since it lasts longer than e.g. a hammer stun.

Kasama.8941:

Please reserve your final judgement until you actually try the build. I’ve tried it, I could see that it worked. You’ve just seen the build, and you’re already theory crafting that it won’t work.

Sorry,
I get worked up about this Build because I have spent hours discussing it in my guild and testing it in wvw.
why I am so harsh is, If you look at the link I posted: I posted a build using this very template 4 month ago and used it for quite some time without much success.
But I’d love to see people giving this a shot again!

Thats the full build around this template that I ended up running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhOD7koisgzrwxCULDErCAq9ITcCTsH83RP6kbNpWA-jkyAoLBZCUgIDwZvioxWCjWBNIl4wqXw0lER1e8ioVLFwiKjA-w

You can use the full set of either of the runes instead, I ended up wioth full Rune of Ice, for more sources of Chill.

and I am afraid it is a template that does not work.
I ve played it in GvG and normal WvW. The Pets just fall out, I wont go and give out about how bad the pet mechanic is But the result is, eventhough they might have amazing F2 Chill abilites, you cant get them off. thats just the whole devestating truth of it. At least from what happened to me.
Plus: Traps are a pain in WvW. their activation radius is smaller than their actual effect, the chill field only stays for 2 seconds, even if traited. AND: what I found was the biggest problem: If you focus on just one condition, you will easily get caught up in Condi remove. you will burn all your chill to apply up to 16 seconds of chill and then a warrior/Guardian/Elementalist uses an AoE condi cleanse and its gone and you cannot reapply it for about a minute …
I dont know how the game has changed since I tried that build in spring but back then it was a nice idea that didnt work.

EDIT: Another Problem:

• You spent 30 points and use a Master and Grandmaster trait for only 1 Utility skill.
• You lack damage mitigation abilities (protect me or traited Signet of Stone) and Stability.
  The traps only have a 600 Range, so you will have to be uncomfortably close to the melee train in order to throw them. And even with full soldiers gear (28k Life and 2.3k thoughness) you will need those mitigation abilities+ stability in order to not be eaten by it.
• I for now ceased to trust Guardians when it comes to stability. We run with at least 5 of them and I seldomly get any … so I have to take care of it myself. But maybe thats going to change mid Octobre, if they acually implement that Boons are goind to prioritize group members.

Been there, Done that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Build-WvW-Chill-Crowd-Control-Build/first#post1981136

as far as I am informed, no GvG playing guild uses a Ranger in its Meta at the moment.
I think if they useed one, it was as either the Backline sniper mentioned above or a CC bomber with MT, Entangle, Frosttrap.
The problem even here is that any of the magic 4, Xsorus mentioned are considered to be batter at the possible tasks for a ranger.

anyone care to share an example of a Power based build focusing on GS?

aparently we can also Bunker pretty hard,
according to Prysin on Kjeldoran’s call for a Bunker Ranger!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR8XnIVUFcgFGWwaZAZVYPaP0EL58cPQFPJEB-jEyAofBZCSgoPwZvioxWZLiGryGT9SEVb9LiWtUACqMC-w

That sounds pretty decent on paper. Anyone tried this?
Also, Chopps, your Valkyrie build really got me startled. In large scale WvW this must be awesome! Would you mind to post your full build?

I totally agree with you.
Since day 1 I created my ranger back in octobre last year I am dreaming of a decent support build for WvW. But I just cant make it happen to deliver something ‘outstanding’, that makes people say: ‘Yes, thats really cool, lets take a ranger into our GvG or our roaming group!’ Instead you get: ‘wanna log to your Mesmer? we need more XY..’

on the official developers forums they stated that there are going to be some major changes to the way rangers can support on the octobre 15th Balance patch. I guess we’ll just have to sit and wait what they will do. They mentioned ’Nature’s Voice to be looked at.

But I’ll put out the call again: if anyone has a viable, unique support build for Group WvW rangers, I would be glad to hear about it! for my knowledge is very limited!

Nuka Cola.8520:

i think by now everyone knows it gives you quickness as well and i don’t remember saying the trait is useless, read please. You don’t have any delays but pets do (~1sec) and when quickness lasts only for 3sec that 1sec of delay on your pet makes a difference

sorry mate, I didn’t mean to be as sharp.
What I was trying to say is:
I also feel that moving Zephyr’s Speed from an adept minor trait to a majoir Grandmaster trait, while they moved Illusionists Celerity on Mesmers to stay at least a Grandmaster Minor Trait, a bit harsch, since it is not SO op after all.
And I also agree that the retricted Pet responsiveness (I dont even know why that is so, is there a special reason to it?) makes this trait less usefull than it might be.
But still, how many classes have access to 3 seconds of Quickness every 15 seconds?
The second point I wanted to make is that our weapon mechanics also greatly benefit from it aswell. We have 3 powerfull channeled weapon skills (barrage, Rapid Shot, Whirling defense) and 2 very strong auto-attack chains (GS, Sword) that in my opinion benefit greatly from Quickness.
so its at least a half usefull trait and the issues that derive from it do not root it its mechanic but in the broken pet system.

Zephyr’s speed doesn’t only give your pet Quickness but you, too.
Then this quickness lasts 3 seconds, Quickening Zephyr gives 6 seconds!
And its far from useless: Many pets have an F2 Skill with a pretty long cast time ( Canines, Moas, Drakes) and if you wait for a second after switching and then hit F2, it actually works pretty well. as well as e.g. the Drakes havinga slow cleave auto attack and a Blast finischer auto attack on a 30 second cooldown. they also benefit greatly from this.

Xhyros.1340:

They’re really strong underwater! Their spear autos are 50% stronger than their GS autos, even though they do the exact same thing and are affected by the same traits while still having access to their high dps pets.

100% agreed. Especially Bm Bunker rangers are King under water. Damage and survivability are simply unmatched.

The upcoming patches seem to bringe quite a few changes to the Ranger with a distinct focus on support. I am really looking forward to that!

Ethos and Pathos for my drakes

AydenStar.4216:

What you need to understand is that we do a little of everything with better survivability than other profession.

Beside that I live by a motto:
Bring the player not the class/profession

so Rangers are kind of the Swiss Army Knife of GW2? Our Blade might not be as long or as sharp but instead we also bring a Saw, Scissors, a corkscrew and a toothpick?
I am convinced
And you are dead right to live by that motto of yours! But what this thread was supposed to be about was to give Rangers a few hard facts in hand to justify their position

@Chopps. My ‘too hard and too difficult’ agrument is refering to that we have to spent a lot of trait points and get a lot of specific equipment to be good at a task we want to fullfill, while I am under the impression that other classes (in concreto Warrior in my initial post) have it easieer on these grounds.

I never said that the Ranger was easy to play. I think you can do an aweful lot and the more effort you put into your play, the better the results you get!
I e.g. believe condition Mesmers are very easy to play. They gain their defensive boons passively, and apply their conditions with almost every singe attack. A BM e.g. has to time his stuff pretty carefully in my opinion. I think the ‘to passive’ argument was mainly directed at the facerolling spirit ranger players in medicore sPvP.

Also @ Ayden: this might not belong here but why do you use moas in your build? And Why do you have healing power gear?

AydenStar.4216:

Gorath.5076:

When playing as a guild group we try not to play a pain-train but try to out-maneuver the enemy. so we play something linke a ‘flanking’ tactic, but condensed.

My build is all about this type of gameplay

Alright I will give you that you can play the ranger as a frontliner if you try really hard. But tell me if I m wrong but no competetive Guild uses a Ranger in their GvG build, as far as I know, since (at least thats what Pryda of former Red Guard told me once) Ranger cannot do anything another class cant do better, or with less effort and hence has space for other tasks.

lets talk one aspect that didn’t count in so far: The Pet. Our grand ‘Class mechanic’ or ‘Class Hindrance’ as some might put it.
In almost every aspect of the game I hear people complaining about its randomnes. Even in duels, where it should be an advantge to have 2 acting enteties, it appear to cause trouble due to the lack of control we have over it. That becomes even worse in large Scale WvW or AoE heavy PvE events. (Dragons e.g.)

In accodrance to the Pet-Problem there’s another Criterium that shoudl be added:
What can we do that other classes cannot do better
in this context all solo oriented tasks wont be included cause obviously, when your on your own, you cannot be replaced

Durzlla.6295:

Gorath.5076:

you got a point. Maybe I am too much into the ‘condensed’ group thinking, that everyone sticks together, only together we are strong.
(ofc this comes from the idea that when you gather you are less likely to be hit by an AoE attack)
So if you live that mantra and actually play as a flanker, i believe you that it works.
And regarding Vit as a defensive stat: With the current condi-heavy meta it is certainly wise to stack a bit of viatiliy, but every attack that applies a condi also deals damage. is it wise to drop toughness entirely?

Maybe I also just have a problem with longbow

Most condi applying moves do a negligible amount of direct damage, the condi is what you really need to worry about. And I hate that mantra, so dumb, I’ve always preferred ganking the enemy team with a small group of highly mobile individuals, much better tactic than bashing faces with each other as the long range squishes kill the front lines.

I dont like that mantra either. But does disliking it change anything about reality?
When playing as a guild group we try not to play a pain-train but try to out-maneuver the enemy. so we play something linke a ‘flanking’ tactic, but condensed.

@AydenStar
like your build but cant other classes do much better CC with less effort? Have a look into that warrior video I posted … made me pale.

Apart from that that you are right about traps, that conditions from traps will also most likely be removed I forgot to mention above

you got a point. Maybe I am too much into the ‘condensed’ group thinking, that everyone sticks together, only together we are strong.
(ofc this comes from the idea that when you gather you are less likely to be hit by an AoE attack)
So if you live that mantra and actually play as a flanker, i believe you that it works.
And regarding Vit as a defensive stat: With the current condi-heavy meta it is certainly wise to stack a bit of viatiliy, but every attack that applies a condi also deals damage. is it wise to drop toughness entirely?

Maybe I also just have a problem with longbow

Chopps.5047:

Remorseless build I run:

Valkryie gear with scholar runes, bud of pale tree type ascended trinkets (beryl exos should be fine, probably more power with those) along with longbow/greatsword (valkryie stats) and sigils of fire on both. Since ranger only gets like, a little more than 1/2 buff from might type sigils that other professions would (not counting pet) sigil of fire is awesome because it just depends on crit. Ranger is great with “on crit” type sigils.

I run troll, signet of renewal, lightening reflexes, and protect me with two porcine (siamoth for more stealth).

When you take “remoresless” grandmaster, you get opening strikes on kill or stealth. Precise strike (25 in marks) will always proc a crit on opening strikes. This is how you crit a lot without much precision.

Elite: spirit of nature or your preference

Build: I like 30/30/10/0/0 or 30/0/10/30/0 (both with wilderness knowlegde) yet I’ve been experimenting with masters bond again (10 in BM).

that sounds like a really cool roaming build for me! But stealth and mostly offensive stats in Zerg? I dont know if thats a good idea …

thanks chopps for making the start.

WvW aspect:
I agree concerning the roaming builds. Ranger is really good at that.
I don’t agree concerning Zerg play:

• Spirits are not viable in Zerg situations: lots of AoE fields that I at least cannot always avoid. and hence: your spirits will die sooner or later, leaving you with 3 25 seconds cooldowns and you dont have any utility slot for stun-breakers/condition clenses left which I believe to be impotant to have for every class in Zerg fights.
• I dont know the remorseless build you are refering to. could elaborte that point?
• and Traps …. Traps are difficult in WvW, especially in Zergs. you have to spent 30 points to make them usable, you have to take at least 2, only 2 acutally create a field (I wont count the pulsing poison trap). Their range is soo short, only 600, their activation radius is smaller than the actual effect, they have a cast time and dont apear instantly but have a flying animation while you throw them..
  I really think traps are not only a pain in the kitten to use in Zergs but are not that effective, just think about the necro with his marks. Thats just a weapon, his marks are instant and he only has to take 2 traits to reduce their cooldowns and make them bigger …
• amazing tower defender: I come from Dark Age of Camelot where it really was a great advantage to be able to shoot AoE from the battlements since a Tower fight would take hours. But seriously: Who every gets killed from player AoE during a siege is just stupid. Dont get me wrong, happens to me all the time but its stupid non the less. GW2 sieges are not real sieges but ‘taking by storm’. If you cannot take a target within minutes you just move on (at least thats true for towers) and arrowcarts are simply a much more effective way to defend a keep. I have never heard that a keep has not been taken cause 5 rangers where casting barrage on the gate …

Hey,
I wanted to start a poll on what you believe Rangers can do.

All areas are open, just make clear on which aspect of the game you are pointing, to not confuse the reader (WvW, Small scale, Zerg or Roaming/tPvP, sPvP/ PvE Dungeon, PvE Open World)

Many might think ‘gosh not another ’Rangers are so useless’ thread!’. And rightly so.

I have often made clear on these forums that I consider my Ranger more as a passion than a ‘competetive Class’ which I play to win. Hence I am not seeking the most overpowered class in order to show off my manliness in tPvP or any other competitive aspect of the game. For that I have my Mesmer

Its more about taking a ‘sturctural survey’ of the status of the Ranger class right now. Especially in WvW, the aspect I take the most part in in GW2, I often thought the Rangers spot to be with in CC area rather than AoE Damage (be it powerbased or condtion) or full out support through boons an heals while doing some damage (thinking Guardians here).
Now I read about the current Hammer CC Warrior meta (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Video-Solo-Roaming-Hammer-Warr-WvW), and begin to question everything I held true.
Those guys are just so much better at AoE CC, and without having to put much thought into it. The trait lines are just MADE for it. They have the cooldown reduction, survivability and damage increases all in the right spot to synergize smoothly with one another.
Looking back at the ranger just feels like a joke in comparison. Not do we have no single Weapon directed to CC, but we have to trait into traits which have nothing to do with CC, simply to be able to survive a ‘condition bomb’ (Signtes) …
I am really questioning why the ranger is in this game for I simply cannot accept that its only purpose is supposed to be an outstanding dueling class and PvE support.
That is where I am coming from ankitten ow very curious on your opinions!

What do you think Rangers can do?

By BM I guess HE means beastmaster bunker with 0/0/30/10/30, using axe/torch -sword/dagger and full apothecary gear.
You will end up with ~2k armor, 1.5k condition damage and ~ 440 hp/sec healing.
Which is a full bunker build, that Xsorus already mentioned to be the onlyway to defeat these warriors.
But chok, the main purpose of this build is to try something different?
A different weapon set and a different stat focus, especially involving Noee Power/crit to mmake the shortbow and bleed on crit viable. So just going back to start doesn’t seem to be a good advice …

I didnt know that … good to know.

One other question: Would it make sense to use Runes of Altruism with Natures voice + traited ‘Guard’? together with Warhorn that would add up to 31 secs of might and 26 secs of fury. That doesnt sound too bad to me? Combined with a fixed MT + Entangle you could provide decent CC as well as constant boon support.
(I think its pretty important to pump out boons DURING combat, not only in the might stacking phase before.)

Xsorus.2507:

Switch Signet of the Hunt for Lightning Reflex before the fight and pray.

Honestly though, their build is so powerful right now you have to vastly outplay them.

so this is just a general problem against tanky classes with all their condition remove?
Warriors right now are overpowered, hands down and I will admit that I am far from being a pro ranger but:
I wasnt at any moment of the fight able to bring him below 70% HP … How can you compensate for that by skill? (I do not have your gear set yet, so I am using a combination of PVT/Knights/Celesterial atm.)

Hey Xsorus, loved your build!
One question though:
I m having huge trouble fighting stun-Warriors. do you have any advice on how to take them?
I have the feeling of doing little to no damage while my interrupts and dazes seem to have little effect on them either (no stability up). I will admit I do not know how this Warrior-build works but I find it incredibly hard to fight …

Whats the problem with MT if I might ask?

Changed the original Post to include the changes I developed with skcamow and added an alternative, completly dropping might in favor of boon stripping. Let me know what you think!

@Xsorus, you gotta be a mind reader. I was jsut checking the forums before I was going to pose a question for a build such as you have just posted

So I’ll ask here instead:

I have given Chopps Hydralisks and Kjeldorans power build a spin.
* My Problem with the Hydralisk CC Build: low Damage and pigeon wholeing into a very specific task

• My problem with Kjeldorans Power Build: Aparently I am nowhere close to being as good a ranger as he is, since I couldnt kill kitten with this build in either Duels or Small scale group roaming.

I was about to ask weather you could recommed a build, focused around GS, which is tanky, versatile and able to kill.
Does your build fullfill those specifications, Xsorus? I see an immediate Problem with your low condition damage, e.g. ..
I’d love to hear about some first hand experience! Your posts sounds a bit like you built it out of resignation about the lack of alternatives …

Hey Nevhie,
good thing someone promoted your post back up
I was actually always a big fan of your work. Is your build dead and burried now or are you just working on a brilliant comeback?

Hey,
sorry for the late reply.
I went to have a look at your chillruption post and gave the 0/15/25/0/30 build a shot. I am pretty amazed! Its kind of a compromise build to be sure but I feel like I get the most benefit out of it for large group play.
You certainly have a point about focus and Pistol but I prefer GS & Staff. Its just a matter of taste I guess.
I even had quite some success in small scale, 1vs1 or 1vs2! Ofc you are lacking the PU buffs but still have quite some punch. Man I was even able to stack 21 stacks of Confusion on an Ele right after he came out of water atunement once …
Sure, I was really lucky hitting 3 illus + the runes proccing, but still:
ever watched an D/D ele flee with 21 stacks confusion on him? he didn’t get far

so: thanks for the feedback! I will propably will stick to that setup for our large group play and ocasionally switch back to 20/20/30/0/0 for roaming.
(the build derived from the Chillruption Condition Variant:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJARWlwzaqHWTmGa9IhZGB33oec9sz9yHwNA-jECBINBiWIQ5QFRjtsuIasqaER16FYGzER1eEYSBso0I-w )

Eventhough I was thinking about a build with heavy illusion creation, hoping them to be killed and hence spreading conditions?
With those 3 traits:
Crippling Dissipation
Confusing Combatants
Debiliating Dissipation

But thats a different topic now

@Skcamow:
So it’s good to hear that at least I got the mechanics right
You are propably right about the gear as well.
With the current traits the damage is pretty low and perplexity runes are the only reliable condition source on a reasonably short CD.
Yet, I would really like to stick with conditions!
Is it possible to build a condition build around imbued diversion?

Hey everyone,

recently I have been thinking wether ‘Imbued Diversion’ (XII Grandmastertrait in Illusions) would be worth it building around, along the lines of the Chillruption by skcamow Chillruption by skcamow.

The way I believe Imbued Diversion works:

Whenever you use your F3 Shatter (Diversion), instead of dazing (and hence interrupting if the target is casting) the target of the respective Illusion/Phantasm for 1 second:
Each Illusion now dazes 5 targets in a 360° radius (range?) around its respective target.
Is that right so far?
So if, in an ideal world I were to have 3 Illusions up, I would be able to daze 15 targets for 1 second, or, if they overlap less but then for up to 3 seconds?

While looking at the new ‘on Interrupt’ traits and the new Perplexity runes, that sounds amazing!

After recieving some very contructive feedback from the community I changed my original build to the following:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJARWlwzaqHWTmGa9IhZGB33oec9sz9yHwNA-jECBINBiWIQ5QFRjtsuIasqaER16FYGzER1eEYSBso0I-w )

Again credit goes towards skcamow, since he is the ‘father’ of this setup.

What I believe it does:

• 2 AoE Interrupts with GS #5 and Staff #5 on relatively long cool downs
• AoE Interrupts with Diversion every 34 seconds
• might for each interrupted target (dont know how many stacks, though?)
• Chill, Blind, Cripple -> Soft CC on each interrupted target
• Confusion on each interrupted target
• if not shattering: cripple and damaging conditions for clones that get eaten up in AoE
• with 1632 Condition Damage and 31% Crit chance a decent punch (gear is not fixed)
• Veil
• Blink + MI Shatter bomb for fleeing groups.

facing the problems of:

• high cooldowns on weapons (esp. Staff with 2 30 sec CDs)
• difficult Illusion creation due to the lack of Deceptive Evasion
• a GS which does almost no Conditions while playing with high Condition Damage and low Power.
• and most importantly: The Shatter-Problem: I have only ranged illusions.
  Realistically they will close to never reach their target in a larger fight.
  What I believe I did against it:
  GS: #2 and #4 create an Illusion directly at the target which i can shatter immediately, at least dazing AoE 5 targets.
  Staff: #2 granting an Illusion directly before me while channeling a second(iWarlock), granting me a 10 target AoE daze while in backward movement.

Variant 1: Imbued Diversion + Boon Stripping
Since with Imbued diversion you have 3 AoE Shatters, the Domination trait ‘Shattered Concentration’ appealed to me, giving the Mesmer an even more defined role in group WvW. Unfortunately I had to drop all points in Chaos for that …
Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJARWlwzSoXVTqGa9ICqHXX2xdkUUasWJF42FC-jECBYhQINA0CBKHqIasl1FRjVVjIqWdDzYuIa1SBMp0I-w

I am still very eager to hear your thoughts!

[PS: Dont mind the lack of condition remove, thats taken care of through my Team].

Hey Chaos,
losing a close relative or friend is the worst thing that can happen to you. my sincere condolences
Please take your time to grief. we will await you back and your competence will be missed.

Vaxx.3178:

1. Its personal choice, but Norn looks ways better than a Sylvari, IMO. The whole plant thing looks silly to me.

2. Norn Warriors always look cool.

3. Norn racials are horrible. Period. I don’t think any other races are as bad. Norns shapeshift into somewhat useless animals.

4. No idea. Up to you.

Agree on everything but:

Norn elites are just AWESOME! Ever entered Bear form in WvW and chased a thief over 2000 yards, kicking him down, stunning him with your GS #4 afterwards and eating them alive? BRILLIANT!!
Or escape a boss fight using the snow leopard stealth and afterwards picking up the entire party while your bear holds the boss in combat? also: Brilliant!

CRrabbit.1284:

Also for trait, I suggest Malicious training instead of beastmaster might since you are not the damage dealer, you want to maximize your CC but not increase DPS. 3x mights make no difference, but +50% immobilization duration could be deadly.

Gorath.5076:

EDIT: That’s the build I ve been running:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhODbkoKxuwyxC1OQseQI/Mo2DOZpz7K4/T2QVUB-j0xAYMB5EYR0YLjFRjVvgpeJiqN5ER1ecMZAYGDA-w

and Xsorus the same,
I was already thinking about replacing that trait since you don’t do much damage anyway. So I will definitely try that.
Why I overlook spiders in general is, that they are very single target focused? In large scale WvW that can only be good for singling out targets, I guess?
in small group Roaming on the borderlands I will definitely give it a try though!

Something more general: Are you guys happy with the ‘all CC’ role of the ranger? Coming back from mesmer I kind of miss the nice combination of amazing support and still being able to kill in 1v1 situations. Outside a regen bunker or glass cannon build I have found that very difficult with rangers.

Hey Chopps,
you are right, with stealth thats a different matter entirely ofc. then you will only have to worry about getting out.

I tried again this afternoon for a few hours, using inspirations of the Sentinel Build mistsim posted on the forums and on which he based most of the critique he put forward (If you read through his guide here: https://tinyurl.com/sentinel-mistsim you will find that almost everything he posted in this thread is just what he claims his build actually does).
I still went with GS- Axe/WH and used the same gear you proposed in your Hydralist 2.0 build, except for changing the Magi trinkets for Soldier for more Toughness.
Btw: if the precision +Viatily combination is your only reason to use Magi jewlery: I would go with knights insteat since your toughness is pretty low.

But I changed from Taps to Signets, changing traits into 30/0/30/10/0. Going for the signet traits and bark skin.
I picked up mistsims idea here to stick with only 2 sources of annoyance: Muddy Terrain and Entagle in favour of SoS and SoW.
I know this kind of drops your concept of the ‘utility’ traps, but:
It worked!
Without stealth I was able to jump into the Vizunah zerg as followed:
Activated SotW, Swoop in, drop MT + Entangle, swap pet to Krytan Hound + use F2, drop Healing Spring while popping SoS, use GS #4 to block while starting to run, and used Swoop again to make distance once it was of CD, did this quite a few times under the eyes of my amazed guildies asking me on TS wether I was feeling suicidal today
What this meant for me: staying in a zerg for a bit is fine if your have the right tools for it. And in my opining you need an Invulnerability to pull this off.
Conditions are another big issue which the HS does not fully solve. Runes of Melandru might help together with the Lemon Grass soup (-65 % Condi Duration) but that won’t fully protect me against immobilises.
Btw, runes: Why use runes of lyssa when RaO has to be used before combat as your only stability source?

I tried to build the synergy of your two concepts and found that it worked quite well, if you only want to apply CC. What it does not is damage…

I will pick up your idea of surfing with he melee’s and see how that works for me!

EDIT: That’s the build I ve been running:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhODbkoKxuwyxC1OQseQI/Mo2DOZpz7K4/T2QVUB-j0xAYMB5EYR0YLjFRjVvgpeJiqN5ER1ecMZAYGDA-w

Hey Chopps,

played around with your build on EB this morning. There still is the same problem I cannot resolve:
I am Swooping into the thick of battle with RaO up in my full Soldier Gear and start dropping my traps, which in a smaller fight i actually get through ankitten ot stuck looking at unmoving pictures due to my badly performing macbook.
What happens most of the time: I die within seconds.
My diagnosis: this build forces you to drop 3 traps with a 3/4 second cast time right into the face of your enemy without you being able to do anything else in the mean time, apart from moving ofc.
In my experience the only class that can safely jump right into a Zerg and stay alive is the defensive shout-heal warrior as our Guild leakitten lays him (as can be seen here: http://www.twitch.tv/rajneshtamil/c/2822037 )
But:

• He’s heavy armoured.
• he has 30k HP
• he has 3 heals available every few seconds
• he has an entire guild team at his back seeing that he survives.

all of which I just cannot provide if I try to do what Chopps is suggesting here.

So I am giving this problem back to you: how do you survive this and do the traps really make a diference?

CRrabbit.1284:

Just a suggestion: no need to waste your gold/badages on that.
I tested almost every single build ever appears on this board (even some not appears here) before I made that post —- I am done with my ranger in WvW.
If you don’t beleive that or only play for fun, go ahead.

Gorath.5076:

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

did anyone tell you that sometimes you have something awfully depressing about you, mate?

Anyhow, I was at the same point about a month ago and as I said, dropped my Ranger. Yet, what is suggested in this thread is exactly what I was trying to do for a long time in WvW, but with little success. Either I died do quickly, didn’t do enough Damage or what ever help I provided, some other class could do better, sometimes even without specifically traiting into it.
Yet, what you guys are debating now is something different, in my opinion. Some time ago I posted a Chill-CC build on this forum which hasn’t really been given much recognition because it wasn’t very good, I suppose Yet, identifying Control and ‘softening’ or ‘erosion’ as the main task of the Ranger goes somewhere along those lines and has hence given me new hope for what I believe to be the coolest class in GW2.
Enough off topic now, though.

@Chopps: had a look into your Hydralisk build, without buying most of the gear though. I just tried with what I had (Knights/Soldier/Apo) and it seems to work quite well. Though it does not negate the major concern I always had when it came to traps:
In a larger scale WvW fight I get about 15 Frames/second and I find it impossible to plant traps effectively.
Their range is so short that you cant just drop and time them from a save distance but have to plant them while you are in the face of your enemy. I’ll give you that the quickness on pet-swap makes this considerably easier.
Still its three 3/4 second cast time utilities which you have to get off while doing nothing else in the face of the enemy zerg.

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

Thanks for the builds!
Nice that spirit rangers finally seem to have found their niche in sPvP.
Yet for wvw it’s the old problem of the spirits dying in AoE? You suggested not to take the trait that allows spirits to move for that reason.
But can you use them effectively when you have to summon them for every fight and then can’t move out of their perimeter? I’ve a hard time imagining how this is supposed to work?

Btw: precasting the spirit ress is awesome I only really use the spirit for under water point holding in Capricorn. As a bm bunker you are already a pain to take down underwater. And having an instant ress is just hilarious

Mornin fellas.
Now that you have made this public: care to share the spirit meta for sPvP and maybe for wvw?

@quartasric doesent the frost spirit create a frost field on activation?
Plus, unless you are playing with a melee train: if the spirits have a 900 range and you are at 1500( which btw you realistically will never), anyone fighting at a range of 600+ will benefit from the spirits

Lol are all the mesmer paragons now venturing into ranger territory? next Fay and Osicat are gonna post too!
On topic:
If I am not mistaken, axe 5 is indeed the only reflect (projectiles only), though rangers get alot of evades. (GS #1, Sword #2, #3, Dagger #4)
Though the question is directed at Razor:
I believe spirits are best used with a ranged weapon to keep them out of the AoE and benefit greatly from a high attack rate. Hence Longbow might be viable:
With eagles eye you can fight at 1500 range.
Though the auto attack is slow, LB #2 has a chance to trigger spirits with every shot, so does Barrage (LB #5)
As for axe you get Split blade where each of the five axes has a chance to trigger the spirits , as well as a bouncing auto attack.
For the birds of horn #4 I do not know weather they trigger the spirits.
But horn #5 might synergize nicely with the spirits active effects(ice field).
Nice to see the mesmers taking so much interest in rangers! I main a mesmer too after giving up my ranger in frustration …

And there’s always the old song:
Ranger is the merger of the two beta classes of the warden and Trapper( I think that’s what he was called?).
Anet combined two classes for which it could not find a role/niche on its own, thereby forgetting that null + null still = nothing.
I think this is very well illustrated by the utility groups of ‘shouts’ and ‘spirits’ which are at best of very limited use. A problem few other classes have. ( I can only speak for mesmer and guardian)
What this means: the ranger emerged from two concepts which Anet has not yet succeed to harmonize, hence leaving it with a lot of contradictions and (yet) useless utilities. ( I think anet did great fixing signets though!)

Adding to My Sweet Lilly’s List :
7. Huge AoE reflect bubble with Axe #5 and Off-Hand training trait.
8. Through pets and traps access to a large variety of combo fields.(maybe more relevant
in PvE)
As for support builds: I am afraid there aren’t any really viable ones atm.especially not in wvw. Unlike mesmers, rangers have a hard time going full support. And if they do, the common credo of boon + condi r remove +healing doesn’t really seem to apply.

Looking at the June 25th patchnotes one thing seems to stand out:
Interrupt.
Did anybody look into this post patch and sees a way to combine interrupts and its side effects with some of the common Shatter and Phantasm builds in sPvP and WvW?

well thanks for the feedback.
the above build is not to be taken at face value.
I just threw it together to give you something to work with.
Great video, Quam. thats what I was looking for.
One question though:
Why is he not using the reflection on distortion trait?