Guild Wars 2

zaxon.6819:

that is a garbage reason.. what is the 500 health counter play to shadowstep.. or steal.

why should mesmer have added counterplay that is not actually counter play.. noone is killing the leap clone because they have god like reactions.. they are killing it by accident or by blanketing the floor with aoe garbage..

because you say “perfectly good reason” dosent make it an actual good reason.

+1, I just hope I’ll still have the potential to dodge out of the way before I’m immobilized and shattered to death by a 6 clone + blurred frenzy burst.

Substance E.4852:

Carighan.6758:

So in short, to make a truly successful PvP-centric MMO?
Easy. Make a truly successful PvP-centric MMO.

Once you hit “critical mass”, you can draw in crazy amount of players. How to get there however, no clue. It seems no one has gotten close yet.

You say that but…

http://www.eveonline.com/

I will never understand why people like playing that game but yes I guess there is… that… The combat in that game felt so passive it was as though I was watching a boring movie.

I don’t find guardians to be OP, but…

I really wish any form of burst had some kind of indication that it was being casted, it doesn’t have to be any longer than 3/4s, that would be nice. Seriously, any game breaking skill which will HEAVILY sway a fight in your favor should have at least 5/8ths-3/4s cast timer with a very vivid casting animation. COUNTER PLAY WE NEED IT!!!!!!! Wouldn’t even mind the dmg on medi guardian burst combo getting an all around 20% dps boost if it mean’t I could have some visual que prior to getting bursted. An instant teleport is impossible to read!

EDIT: I was curious if the community would appreciate Anet quickly re-working all the traits we currently don’t see much of in the meta scene, even if it meant creating a heavy imbalance for at least a few months or more. We the players would basically be the testers seeking out balance, while Anet threw out some cool ideas for us to play with.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The class was more fun to play on release, than it is now. I had a ton of fun timing my Death Shroud correctly, to absorb huge hits from bosses. But they’ve complete obliterated that aspect of DS, and now all damage spills into our healthpool. It makes the necro a lot less interesting to play. But on top of that, Death Shroud just doesn’t work very well as a mechanic. It doesn’t scale well against stronger opponents, or against focused fire. And while no necro should be invincible, being knocked out of DS instantly is kind of absurd too.

Wow, I wish I had played a necro back when this was how it was played. That sounds soo much more interesting than the dulled down version we see today.

Carighan.6758:

There’s been more PvP-centric MMOs in the past, Shadowbane and Age of Conan comes to mind. Ok, the latter we better don’t mention because ugh, the former did ok but never truly well.

There’s also DAoC, which until Trials of Atlantis (incidentally the expansion which drove the lion share of players away from the game) was pretty much full-PvP once you hit max level. That one was fairly successful, capping at ~400k players stable I think.

Probably a few more.

But in the end, the reason PvE is so popular is complex.
Like LoL or DotA2, WoW drew in the insane numbers it partially still has by peer pressure more than anything else. Look at MOBAs: they’re inherently unfriendly to newcomers. They’re meant to be due to their focus on the super highest end, but this also makes you wonder why so many would play it.
Well, easy. Most of their friends do + it’s free.

Similarly – though without the free but in return actually being accessible – WoW drew in an enormous crowd of players who really didn’t game, didn’t want to game (outside of WoW) and had 0 interest in any serious commitment unless it was in the process of playing with friendly, directly. Family, loved ones, friends, they all joined because well, their SOs, family or friends all played it.

So in short, to make a truly successful PvP-centric MMO?
Easy. Make a truly successful PvP-centric MMO.

Once you hit “critical mass”, you can draw in crazy amount of players. How to get there however, no clue. It seems no one has gotten close yet.

No ones seems to be willing to take that daring leap into innovation, here are some of my thoughts that come to mind when thinking about a successful “innovative” mmorpg

-PvE with intelligent AI that would test your skills, think Vindictus boss fights, but lets take it a step further and actually make trash mobs provide some sort of mental engagement, yet soloable. IMO fights where you are FORCED to dodge/block/counter some form of attack or be completely obliterated is a step in the right direction. There needs to be a challenge, and the steps you must take in order to succeed should be quite apparent, but also challenging. Not sure if many of you played Vindictus but there were boss fights which were designed for a “group” of players to take on, but also were soloable if the player was skilled enough. People would literally post videos of themselves soloing a lvl 20 boss at lvl 3 because they could counter/avoid a boss’ attack at all times. You could also obtain titles that you could flaunt around to the community, proving you soloed a boss which was meant to be a group encounter… If an MMORPG wants to revolve around PvE, they should make it a lot less mindless!

-PvP that supports even-numbered fights with great counterplay options, how to accomplish this? I have no idea other than having a game match mode that only allows a fixed numbered amount of people to join (e.g. 5v5) It would be really cool though if open world pvp had specific areas that promoted enemies to battle each other in small numbers. A constant flow of low traffic if you will, maybe something in the air would kill off a big enough group that huddled together in this general area?

Carighan.6758:

Grimreaper.5370:

This question is probably like asking, “What is the meaning of life?”. Regardless of that, I’m going to ask it anyway… Why the hell doesn’t this company take advantage of a good thing they got going and make a game solely based on 3rd person PvP combat? Right now the gaming industry is showing us that PvP sells much better than PvE, so why not focus on PvP?!

Probably because for MMOs in particular, the industry is not showing that PvP sells much better. At least no information we have points to that. Players are largely in it for the PvE.

I understand MMO’s in general are based around PvE, and its a shame no ones trying to break out of the norm and try something a little different. Look at the numbers DOTA2 and LoL pull in, those games are two of the most popular online games in the world and they completely revolve around PvP. I don’t think its too farfetched to believe Anet could make a popular 3rd person combat game based around pvp. Just because no one hasn’t made a mmorpg solely based on pvp combat doesn’t mean it couldn’t work. Hopefully Mark Jacobs can show everyone whats up with his game, Camelot Unchained, and change the mmorpg scene for ever.

I really feel like GW2’s pvp could be the test subject for a new pvp based mmorpg title, the pvp in gw2 is what stands out to me more than anything else this game has to offer, this is why I’m still here playing this game! Like many of you, I only PvE when I’m “forced” to so I can obtain the gear I need to compete in PvP. Why wouldn’t Anet want to put more work into polishing up one of the greatest aspects of their own game? I know not everyone feels the same way as I do, but there is still no denying that PvP sells, while PvE just drags in bored veteran WoW players, which I suppose can make corporate a few bucks but why not aim for the bigger picture?

Conjured weapons being apart of the meta, I have a feeling a good majority of Anet thinks all conjured weapons must OP because of the FGS exploit, lol.

Warriors, adrenaline nerf op.

This question is probably like asking, “What is the meaning of life?”. Regardless of that, I’m going to ask it anyway… Why the hell doesn’t this company take advantage of a good thing they got going and make a game solely based on 3rd person PvP combat? Right now the gaming industry is showing us that PvP sells much better than PvE, so why not focus on PvP?!

I believe with the suggestions I made the game could move away from these flaws many of you have listed and become the kind of game it should have always been.

Carighan.6758:

Maybe. I mean I often think on a macro level .You’re certainly right, on the other hand I wouldn’t see anything wrong with the Albion 3-bolt-out-of-LoS-kill method to remove a single character, so long as that character could them be combat rezzed back if pressure is lost.

The attacking character enabling that instant kill cannot really contribute otherwise, after all. They’re used purely as a sniper, removing a specific key enemy target but otherwise holding back. Ok, in DAoC you also had the balancing factors that a) spells cannot be cast if you take damage during casting or 2s before it and b) shields block bolt-spells.

But even then I feel on a marketing level going for a more unique selling point and focusing dev effort into rebalancing and improving WvW might be a smarter choice. It sells better in the media. Ofc the flipside – and hence my provocative opener before – is that I can’t see eSports do 100v100 fighting over a map for 2 hours. :P

DAoC was a good game while it lasted, that type of gameplay is outdated now IMO :/ I was getting close to rr12 on my vw, played the game for a long time.

Carighan.6758:

Grimreaper.5370:

Some people asked why, because it would promote more tactical playstyle.

That’s exactly what I’m not sure about though. It’d promote a more hectic playstyle, sure. I could always fire 2-5 (available, at least), swap, repeat. Ad nauseam.

But more tactical? If anything, wouldn’t between a short CD barely enough to use your skills and a longer one which forces you to be “stuck” on a weapon you switched to, wouldn’t the longer one be more tactical in use?
You have to think through whether you really want to swap in that case, or you end up stuck on a weapon you shouldn’t use right now for 10 seconds just because of one skill you wanted to use.

Even on an elementalist I do not merely spam 2-5 and swap attunement, using CC and applying specific conditions at the right time is crucial, revamping skills which could be abused by faster weapon swap should also have their reuse timers revamped. IMO the game should be less focused on when to weapon swap and more focused on when to use X skill.

IMO, AI would be better off if it had a minor damage dealing role with auto attacks, more of a defensive role while active and also a skill when used manually that applied excruciating burst or CC.

Carighan.6758:

Now compare RPGs:

• You want your players to make mistakes. Your game is complex and wants to offer lots of ways to interact with the world it presents. Making mistakes needs to be something the player never fears, or they’ll not want to do anything in the first place (no quickload, after all).*

This is what a superior match making system is for, you play vs people on your own level, and there is nothing to fear over losing, other than some MMR which only means you don’t fight people too hard for your skill level.

Carighan.6758:

• In a role-playing game, combat is traditionally heavily influenced by your character. Your class excess at some things and is terrible at others. This makes you rely on the other classes. A wizard alone can fell a group of targets but will get overrun afterwards while recovering. Transported to MMORPGs, combat needs to be heavily influenced by your class and spec, giving you very real moments where you have an innate advantage and ones where you are disadvantaged. No matter how good or bad you play.

There can still be builds which triumph over another persons build, infact this is very much so the case in MOBAs as well. Depending on how well your opponent can play though, I very much believe they deserve a fighting chance how ever slim it may be, perhaps you must play perfect and dodge all burst combos to win vs said class,when it comes to burst you should AT LEAST have the option to see a casting animation and potentially react to it.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I’m not sure if all suggested idea’s contribute better to the road called E-sports. But I certainly agree with all skills being pushed into the same model (Burst cast time and animation).

Also all passive builds have to be removed. Bad players should be able to compete in some way, but that way should be a spec that is less effective and more survivable. Not totally survivable where spamming your skills still requires a great player to play nearly perfect or engage with two players to take him down.

I completely agree with the statement in bold. I also think some of my suggestions would take care of this issue if implemented correctly.

I would like to propose some ideas which would move GW2 a step closer to Esports material:

Every skill in the game should have a unique and very visible animation which stands out from the beginning to the end of the ability casted. (Burning Speed, Eviscerate, Zealots Defense, Engineer’s grenades, Enfeebling Blood are good examples of visible casting animations which give their opponent the potential to counter with a dodge/block). A great Esports game is extremely competitive, which also means the potential for counter play should merely be lurking right around the corner.

Implement an in game ranked ladder system for everyone to view. Rank is based on MMR (Match make rating) and the top 10 ranked players in SPvP have statues of themselves in every town. These players are ranked on performance via wins and skillful play

Traits which effect skills/remove conditions/block or reflect projectiles, should have a visual indication to allow opponents to know that trait has been selected and is active.

Allow no “modern” skills in GW2 to have a cast time less than ~1/2 a second. (With the exception of channeled abilities and strictly defensive abilities)

Each classes strongest burst skill should be on a 5/8th – 3/4ths second cast timer. (For those of you who struggle with math, 5/8ths is 1/8th less of a second than 3/4ths of a second) Why 5/8ths of a second? Based on my own experiences, 3/4ths of a second is plenty of time to dodge if you see it coming, 5/8ths would be cutting it close, and 1/2 of a second is extremely challenging to dodge. I would strongly encourage a 5/8ths second cast timer to become the most common time frame used for burst skills with melee range while 3/4ths of a second was most commonly used for ranged burst.

All hard CC with a base value longer than 1 second (Stun,Knockdown,Knockback, blowout) should have a cast timer long enough to provide counter play. This means at least 5/8ths to 3/4ths of a second cast time!

all burst skills have at least one solid condition providing dps(making burst harder to recover from via healing, the penalty for getting by a burst combo should not be something you can just shake off!). Condition damage as a stat is removed and has its dmg now based on the power stat. Condition damage is heavily rescaled in DPS and is now treated more like “icing on the cake”, but still poses a threat.

Bunker builds should be less about heals and more about additional HP + block/dodge options. Seriously, why are we allowing players to hide behind such an extremely unskillful type of build? I personally wouldn’t feel NEARLY as underwhelmed if my burst was blocked thus leaving my opponent alive and kicking instead of my opponent eating a whole burst chain and not even being phased by it, perhaps I could at least be allowed to puts some dents into my enemy?

Stealth becomes MUCH less spammable, using a burst skill while in stealth immediately unstealths you before finishing the cast, stealth grants a 100% crit chance on the next attack to classes with the stealth mechanic and blocks x% of dmg you would normally take if hit while in stealth, the theifs abilities to stealth become instant allowing them to use stealth as a defensive dmg absorption mechanic.

Provide more spvp maps with different and innovative game types There will still be plenty of people to play the current game type… Change is good.

Give each class a new weapon type Like I said, change is good.

At the end of an SPvP match, select the top contributor(not only points accumulated based) to enter a cutscene, that player opens a chest and is rewarded with a random cosmetic + currency.

expand on the amount of cosmetics the cash shop has to offer, but also allow these cosmetics to be found for completing spvp matches as a top contributor

GW2 is so close to having the potential of being true Esports material its not even funny, could some of you take a guess at what it would mean for the longevity of the game if it ever were to hit such a status? Not too long ago a game called DOTA2 gave away ~11 MILLION to the team who took home gold medals during the International championship. Tournaments which posses stakes this high grab a vast amount of people’s attention, which get more people to play and spend money on said game.That 11-million was completely community fundraised via people buying a book in that games cash-shop which acted as a catalyst for cosmetic armor/weapon drop rate. I believe Arena Net could be accomplishing similar goals, they just need to start trying!

You don’t need a fancy tv commercial to build a fortune off said game, You don’t need fancy cutscenes either (Although they are nice to see!), The MOBA industry has proven this. Game mechanics which heavily cater to the hardcore community while also allowing newcomers to enjoy the game is most certainly one of the most important factors for a successful Esports game. This means EXCELLENT PvP, as well as implementing a rank system which allows players play with other people on their skill level. An ingame stream which allows the community to observe the games finest players doesn’t hurt either. I encourage Arenanet to take the gamble and hire a few more people who can completely devote them selves towards pvp balance and spvp map/game type design. While GW2 PvP is quite astounding its still missing a spark, and that’s quite unfortunate when this said spark is right within its grasp.

IMO, we’d be better of will skill morphs (not from traits), which allowed you to tweak current skills by adding minor perks, which also changed the animation for the skill, allowing players to have visual que of what morph the opposing player is using. This is something I’d see Anet actually willing to do…possibly… I’d also like new weapon types added though, but I DON’T want to be forced to farm them.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Grimreaper.5370:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Grimreaper.5370:

Neko.9021:

I don’t really regard the ability of players to duel in 1v1 situations to be indicative of their skill, given that everything in the game (PvE, WvW, SPvP) is about your ability to team-fight well. If we accepted that 1v1 capability shows how good of a player you are, then PU Mesmers must be the best players in this game :P

SMH… Have you ever heard of a point holder? I know for a fact the 1000+ hours I’ve spent dueling, is the main reason I do so well for my team in spvp. How could learning what skills to dodge and when to burst for best chances of success ever be a bad thing? The fact you could ever think the ability to to fight well in 1v1 is irrelevant towards skill level is astounding, darn noob.

To the people saying “nerf drakes breath” can you people seriously not strafe? Out of all the things Anet should nerf on Ele, DRAKES BREATH?! LOL!

Well frankly you can just aim the thing manually by right clicking and dragging, as you can with a number of other skills, and that is usually a better idea anyway, but still, the thing has 300 range. If it’s that much of a problem, step out of the way for a full 2.25 seconds and then you’re good for at least ten seconds, because any ele that doesn’t swap attunements before then is probably a dead one, unless you don’t understand focusing.

Go try and spin in a circle while channeling drakes breath and watch how terrible the skill is at keeping up with your frontal arc. If you strafe around an ele in a circle while staying fairly close to them they aren’t going to land crap its almost as bad as trying to land the Guardian’s main hand sword skill: zealot’s defense, except nothing is quite that bad, except that skill ofc.

That’s why you lead a bit; it just needs a bit of practice, and really it needs to be somewhat avoidable anyways, with its twelve seconds of burn and 2.0 damage coefficient. Besides, it’s still better than letting the game try to do it for you.

Are you under the impression that I was complaining about it not hitting? Also, no, as long as you’re in the “sweet spot” and can circle strafe, that drakes breath isn’t catching up to you. I don’t want the skill buffed Mr.Pdiddy, I just think its hilarious this is the skill that must be nerfed to balance the class. How about just nerf defensive stats on celestial and replace the points taken away with more offensive stats? While were at it, rebalance the other amulets that are lackluster as well.

LightningBlaze.4913:

If you excel (without easy mode cheese builds) in 1v1 then you will be great in group fight but the same can’t be said vice-versa

I definitely agree.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Grimreaper.5370:

Neko.9021:

I don’t really regard the ability of players to duel in 1v1 situations to be indicative of their skill, given that everything in the game (PvE, WvW, SPvP) is about your ability to team-fight well. If we accepted that 1v1 capability shows how good of a player you are, then PU Mesmers must be the best players in this game :P

SMH… Have you ever heard of a point holder? I know for a fact the 1000+ hours I’ve spent dueling, is the main reason I do so well for my team in spvp. How could learning what skills to dodge and when to burst for best chances of success ever be a bad thing? The fact you could ever think the ability to to fight well in 1v1 is irrelevant towards skill level is astounding, darn noob.

To the people saying “nerf drakes breath” can you people seriously not strafe? Out of all the things Anet should nerf on Ele, DRAKES BREATH?! LOL!

Well frankly you can just aim the thing manually by right clicking and dragging, as you can with a number of other skills, and that is usually a better idea anyway, but still, the thing has 300 range. If it’s that much of a problem, step out of the way for a full 2.25 seconds and then you’re good for at least ten seconds, because any ele that doesn’t swap attunements before then is probably a dead one, unless you don’t understand focusing.

Go try and spin in a circle while channeling drakes breath and watch how terrible the skill is at keeping up with your frontal arc. If you strafe around an ele in a circle while staying fairly close to them they aren’t going to land crap its almost as bad as trying to land the Guardian’s main hand sword skill: zealot’s defense, except nothing is quite that bad, except that skill ofc.

Neko.9021:

I don’t really regard the ability of players to duel in 1v1 situations to be indicative of their skill, given that everything in the game (PvE, WvW, SPvP) is about your ability to team-fight well. If we accepted that 1v1 capability shows how good of a player you are, then PU Mesmers must be the best players in this game :P

SMH… Have you ever heard of a point holder? I know for a fact the 1000+ hours I’ve spent dueling, is the main reason I do so well for my team in spvp. How could learning what skills to dodge and when to burst for best chances of success ever be a bad thing? The fact you could ever think the ability to to fight well in 1v1 is irrelevant towards skill level is astounding, darn noob.

To the people saying “nerf drakes breath” can you people seriously not strafe?
Out of all the things Anet should nerf on Ele, DRAKES BREATH?!
Maybe if some of you learned what the Burning speed animation looked like you’d never get hit by it again, and rather rofl stomp the eles you were fighting. I kid you not I dodge burning speed + LF combo 99% of the time as long as I have a dodge ready and I am not stuck in CC, It is COMPLETELY avoidable, does not take a pro player to dodge it and prevents over half the eles dps. Heres your ready to go “nerf” fresh for the taking.

How many times do I have to say “Balance perks for weapon swapping accordingly” until you kittenz listen!?

Some people asked why, because it would promote more tactical playstyle.

Every class could swap weapons after 5 seconds?

“But the ele omg they would-”

NO! Shut-up. Balance perks for weapon swapping accordingly.

Cynz.9437:

Linnael.1069:

Supply drop and thieves guild are two of the best elites in the game. Try to be considerate to others and not post on this forum if you’re just going to mislead people.

lmao i just died….. the only time thief guild is any good if you are trying to solo champion… it is horrendous for pvp, wvw and in speed runs in pve

? Thieves guild has been the reason I’ve lost to thieves in many 1v1, that elite forces you to either waste a dodge or get force fed bullets.

I’d like to mention a few things some people may have forgotten about the elementalist, I’ll make these points blunt:

-Elementalist was very weak in Spvp before the improved celestial amulet was added

-Celestial got buffed and gave the elementalist the defensive sustain you’re used to seeing today

-No one complained about celestial before the buff to stats (but rather laughed at the idea of using this stat combo!)

-Str runes + celestial amulet is the reason you see good damage come from a great bunker

One more thing I’d like to throw out there; I find the zerker amulet makes some fights easier than celestial. For example, when I fight a well played shatter mesmer, I have much better luck with zerkers because I don’t get many opportunities to land burst on them, so I need to finish them off quickly before they drop me like a fly.

The point I’m trying to make is celestial isn’t always the best choice… Although it sure is pretty kitten forgiving with the great healing it provides an elementalist, on the contrary some builds have no problem fighting a celestial bunker ele. Is the answer to our problems truly to remove the celestial amulet? I don’t think so. I would rather see the some of the defensive stats celestial provides removed and then placed into offensive stats.

Sagat.3285:

Grimreaper.5370:

Sagat.3285:

Grimreaper.5370:

What SHOULD have been nerfed:

-Celestial amulet(SPvP) healing potential reduced (subtract points from healing power and add them to offensive stat lines.)

The other classes have so much healing man ele pales in comparison maannn the celestial is op on them boooyyy.

Back to the serious you might need that healing after patch lol compare all the skill bar so far lol(specifically the recent one…) I’m so impatient for guard and necro.

Perhaps, we will see. As of now I’m disgusted by the amount of defense provided by celestial amulet when equipped on an elementalist.

I JUST WISH THEY WOULD FIX POORLY DESIGNED SKILLS!

I’m going to be honest I’m tired of this game being all about burst power or condi (only power in pve). So many traits,gear,skills and set up not used because the game pushes you to damage the main tanks are seen in conquest(tank guard,turret engi..and are hated) and WWW.

Most of the community want to see all damage power or condi and complain at any sight of tank even a mix burst/tank(shout war,…) they want fights to end quick. I kinda feel that it might changed first with change of conquest and pve content but I’ll keep hoping.

I can agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but allow me to list a few scenarios that bother me when it comes to a celestial ele bunker.

-Never ending ele vs ele fights
-being able to completely outheal the dps many builds can dish out.

With that being said maybe nerfing the celestial amulet isn’t the answer, and rather increasing the damage some (classes + build) can achieve is the answer. Which is where this patch seems to be going.

IMO this game would be a lot better off if it was completely balanced around the idea of:
who ever dodges/avoids(mainly dodge) the most burst in a fight, wins

Instead of

I can outlast you in a dps race so I win

Sagat.3285:

Grimreaper.5370:

What SHOULD have been nerfed:

-Celestial amulet(SPvP) healing potential reduced (subtract points from healing power and add them to offensive stat lines.)

The other classes have so much healing man ele pales in comparison maannn the celestial is op on them boooyyy.

Back to the serious you might need that healing after patch lol compare all the skill bar so far lol(specifically the recent one…) I’m so impatient for guard and necro.

Perhaps, we will see. As of now I’m disgusted by the amount of defense provided by celestial amulet when equipped on an elementalist.

I JUST WISH THEY WOULD FIX POORLY DESIGNED SKILLS! >.<

Oh and was the burning speed and retreat nerf really needed? You can’t get most people to even stand on the fire trail for more than a second. I’m assuming its nerfed with lightning Flash as well now.

What SHOULD have been nerfed:

-Celestial amulet(SPvP) healing potential slightly reduced (subtract points from healing power and add them to offensive stat lines.)

What SHOULD have been reworked (For the sake of functionality!):

-Magnetic Grasp (Doesn’t function properly % amount of the time. It wont land!)
-Churning Earth (Not a viable ability to use in many scenarios)
-Fire grab/lightning touch (Very very slight increase in hitbox size)
-Vapor Blade (will not ever hit a strafing target further away than ~400 units)
-Dragon’s Tooth (Needs the option for where to cast it)
-Shatter Stone (Similar problem as Churning Earth)
-Gust (similar problem as vapor blade)
-Ice Spike (Too much time given to react and avoid/dodge)
-Eruption (Same problem as Ice Spike)
-comet (slightly too long of a delay before landing)

Traits that still need more work done on them:
-Elemental Contingency (Evasive Arcana is still far superior)

Changes that were unnecessary:
-Burning speed and burning retreat changes.
(The burning trails from these skills require an opponent to either be CC’d or be a complete idiot to stand in them, the burning trails also did not do enough additional damage to be a concern in the first place)

MORE IMPORTANTLY, this patch for the elementalist will not shake the meta(PvP). Why is this? We have multiple traits to provide great defensive AND offensive boons to our cantrips (which are already very powerful by themselves) and hardly any traits at all to benefit from signets and glyphs.

Traits which benefit Cantrips:
-Spell slinger (Provides 3 might stacks per cantrip used)
-Burning fire (Instantly removes 3 conditions when 3 are applied + burn target)
-Cantrip Mastery (reduces cd by 20%)
-soothing disruption (gain vigor and regen boons upon using cantrip)

IMO Glyphs signets need additional traits that provide defensive/offensive properties if they are going to shake the meta

Why did burning speed and retreat get hit? especially burning retreat? Seriously Anet nerfs staffs 1v1 potential which already sucks balls? I’m guessin this means no more burning speed+ LF combo to target thats knocked down or immobed.

BrunoBRS.5178:

OP made me realize something.

it’s not just ANet that has a gross misunderstanding of the thief profession, it’s the entire community.

venoms don’t benefit from condi damage. none of the thief buffs benefit thieves, in fact. we got two (deserved) nerfs and a bunch of buffs that honestly, i wouldn’t miss if they just didn’t add them.

actually, 3 nerfs (forgot choking gas), but yeah, i don’t disagree with the nerfs, i think the buffs are just in the wrong areas, and show a gross lack of understanding of the issues they’re trying to fix.

How is providing venoms for your team with dps based on your condi dmg instead of theirs a buff in the wrong direction? AND, how do venoms NOT benefit from condi dmg? Torment is a pretty nice condition and with a well organized team you could easily stack 15-25 stacks on someone, they’ll be down before they know it.

Sounds like you just want more selfish builds.

Don’t listen to these people saying, "x class is “best” across the board" when it comes to pvp.

Necro can counter Ele, ele can also counter necro (depending on build)

Shatter mesmer can wreck peoples face, they can also be countered with insane bunker strats.

Thief can make people QQ, thief also might QQ them selves when they get wrecked by X build from ele or warrior or (insert class here).

In pvp there is no “best”. You’ll always eventually run into someone with a build that counters yours, or maybe you just get outplayed by that one guy with thousands of hours of play time spent mastering their class, although this will almost “never” be the case because if you win then you’re “OP”.

I’d personally look up meta builds for necro, ele, mesmer and try them all out. All those classes can wreck equally as hard, although some builds may take more skill than others.

Lamir.6702:

silvermember.8941:

Lamir.6702:

Signets are already OP on almost every class and provide passive gameplay. Do we really need to buff them more?

Every class except the elementalist, the class that probably needs it the most.

Virtually all eles I have seen run Signet of Fire in dungeons except for rare circumstances.

PvE is a joke

I think they are better off re-scaling how well regen is affected by healing power. The really annoying ele/engy builds with incredible healing sustain have perma regen pretty much.

Wait to nerf until patch is out though imo, lots of changes coming.

Then again there are classes that will just wtf wreck celestial ele like its nothing. Balance is hardz mang.

I think the healing power on celestial amulet could be toned down a bit, maybe provide more power, precision and slightly reduce the healing, toughness accordingly… but then again, wouldn’t that just make celestial better for the other classes and less great for ele? >.>

scerevisiae.1972:

Anet should seriously consider making DS optional (eg: in custom arenas) and seeing how players react.

I agree with this, have the option to disable it for tpvp servers, everybody wins. You don’t like it disabled? Don’t play on that server.

Me Games Ma.8426:

lmao! There’s a way to fix that problem! view screenshot <3

It doesn’t solve the issue with legendaries I believe

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally)

only if you fail to burst them until they bleed out or stomp them.
this is an learn to play issue.

-give players such a huge health pool while downed

the health pool is not huge at all and can be depleted very quickly.
obviously another learn to play issue.

-allow cc effects (Unless you want to sacrifice some of your downed state hp)

this is working as intended.
also there are ways to bypass their downed cc effects.
learn to play issue.

-allow you to get back up if you (or your ally) finishes off the enemy you were fighting

rally system, working as intended.
players need to prioritize to revive their allies first or to burst down / safe stomp their opponents.
learn to play issue.

nothing wrong with the system.
its the players.

I have a feeling you just play pub matches and don’t ever play against well organized pre-mades. I don’t mind a downed player getting a fighting chance before death, I do mind when a downed player has less than 10% hp left and gets instantly rezed by 4+ allies assisting them.

Seriously? No rez illness? No penalty for being downed once you get back up? (sure you start out with some diminished hp once you get back up, but in a game where everyone has a heal…) lets just let the player whos been downed 2 or 3 times get right back up and act like it never happened.

This is almost never an issue in spvp pub games, its an issue in WvW and pre-made spvp teams. In WvW it discourages solo play and encourages more people to zerg, this is what I least like about the downed state.

Olba.5376:

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally)

-give players such a huge health pool while downed

-allow cc effects (Unless you want to sacrifice some of your downed state hp)

-allow you to get back up if you (or your ally) finishes off the enemy you were fighting

---

Let us hear your guys thoughts on the subject.

1. There are already ways to prevent that from happening.
2. The health pool has to be large for the Downed Penalty to make sense as a penalty.
3. Why not? The CC skills in downed state are only effective if they are timed perfectly. And unless you’re a complete rookie, you should know which classes can deny your stomp and how.
4. Then how would you get up? If you nerf the healing and the ability to Rally when you kill your enemy, that leaves you extending your arm on the ground. In case you don’t know, at that point it’s quite often easier to just let yourself die and respawn.

1.) Care to share how you’re supposed to stop 4+ people from rezing when a guardian is also there to aid with rez perks?
2.) I don’t agree, you’re supposed to be at the brink of death, why do I need to bash your face in 50 times to kill you opposed to stomping you?
3.)Yes I’m aware the CC is easily dodged if your fighting the downed opponent alone, that is not my main issue with the downed state. I just find it completely bonkers that someone can be downed multiple times and then just picked back up so quickly with the aid of an entire team… Maybe some of you don’t, but I see this as a flaw…
4.)You use #4

This is just absurd, pindown needs a bigger animation if this is going to be allowed to happen. Warriors with bright shiny white armor + legendary bows are able to pretty much COMPLETELY hide the pindown animation. I really hope this gets fixed.

Crossplay.2067:

I still say the best way to solve ele build diversity is to allow in-combat weapon swapping. It can be done very easily too. Signet of Attunement. Passive allows weapon swapping but locks the inactive attunements. Active allows attunement swapping but blocks weapon swapping while on cooldown.

I would really really REALLY like this because it would just open up so many more interesting combos for the class. Wouldn’t even mind nerfs to allow this, but it will never happen.

Raven.9603:

ele’s have terribly low base stats but the same damage as everyone else.

in order to get up to moderate survivability, you need to trait for it. right now, the best way is healing ripple and evasive arcana heals. only problem is, thats the been the best way since day %$#*ing one.

there needs to be serious defensive traits in fire and air to make those worthwhile, and anything less than evasive arcana or healing ripple wont be enough to cause a shakeup for more than a week.

Couldn’t agree more, blinding ashes was a great idea, except it needs to not have a global cd and rather a cd per unit.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

We’ll be covering mesmer and elementalist this week.

YUS!!!!! I <3 u

Do you know that the sigil of battle provides just as good of a return as sigil of air in dps over an extended period of time? (~30s) The only reason you would ever want to use sigil of fire and air is if you are already a burst build or are trying to counter a boon stripper.

I ran extensive tests on dummies in the mists on the invincible dummy to find this out, looks like 6 might stacks (which is how much you can get out of sigil of battle in ~20seconds) will give most classes just about the same damage sigil of air would over a course of 30 seconds. Therefore I don’t think stacking both of these sigils together is much of a problem. I would personally like to see more sigils and runes which don’t see much use get buffed up to par with these other sigils we see a lot of.

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally.)
How to fix this: For each additional ally rezing you, the amount of healing is exponentially reduced.

-CC effects should cost a % of downed hp pool. (This will make players have to actually think twice before trying to save their own life)

-allow you to rally if your ally finishes off the enemy you were fighting. (You should have to land the last hit)

Let us hear your guys thoughts on the subject.

Poplolita.2638:

You guys are aware that there is no such thing as condition meta in tpvp?

Also, to those who think a power build most be build around power/precision/ferocitity, have you ever faced a celestial d/d elem, and axebow/hambow warrior with soldier amulet? Those two are the best build in the game. They are the reason why this meta is called BUNKER META

That is because pro teams provide great condi removal for their allies. Its the pub games where condis get out of line… I personally don’t have much beef with condi based builds except for this one 0/6/0/4/4 build on a necro thats just completely absurd at dishing out conditions with a staff :|

Do we know which two classes are up for the next skillbar?

I assume this friday’s Skillbar was postponed because of the tournament? Dang… Was looking forward to seeing more updates to the other classes.

Mayama.1854:

Mbelch.9028:

I’m all for down with celestial. It is ridiculously overused.

The problem with celestial imo is that you have to sacrifice nothing. You only lack damage but thats easily compensated by might stacking.

I’ve been trying to explain to this enemies who msg me and trash talk on celestial, its not really that out of line with out the might stacks…at least on an ele.

I’m worried about an overall might stack nerf taking away too much dps from the ele using d/d with balanced stats in spvp. Before this last balance patch the class struggled severely when fighting bunker-ish type builds. I think I’d much rather take a hit to healing sustain.