Don’t know if you deserve a cage or an award at this point Rosicky.
I’m up for the cage.
As for ele, I honestly think this has lots to do with burning, which needs to be fixed. Also, the fire line adds 150 power in each attunement + 150 in fire, that needs to be fixed, too. Not fan of Blinding Ashes either, don’t like traits like this, same goes for Diamond skin and Stone heart, they provide quite too much sustain for the ele. However, at this state I’m not even mad since there’s just too much damage around.
I don’t know how to feel about people saying s/f fresh air ele is the best spec atm. Like really.
Re read the 150 power trait. K? K. You’re a funny guy. Cried about both EA’s being moved to GM, did not see the possibility of how OP ele would be if we were allowed to trait into 3 lines…(When I called it way back then…) and bam…You’re asking for a nerf. Oh how quickly you flip flop.
I did read it, the trait states you gain 150 power in fire attunement, it doesn’t state you gain 150 power in each attunement and 150 more in fire, so 300 in total. It’s bugged, your point? Yes, I would like to see nerfs to some things, not to something that’s crucial for ele, your logic is quite flawed. Not wanting some specific nerf doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want any nerf.
Yes you are right its bugged. 150 power is maybe 5% more dmg and eles dmg is pretty crap in anything but air or fire as you know so I doubt this is really a major issue breaking the class currently. Let’s not try and imply that a class needs a nerf because of a bug, this seems like your intention but perhaps I am wrong. I think it’s reasonable to be concerned about how diamond skin works if youre running in pubs since you might not have a good comp vs it. Stone heart is probably sort of annoying if youre on a mesmer or thief so i can feel your pain, but come on is stone heart really op? Is diamond skin really op? Are these traits breaking the game? Id like to think not, not by them selves anyway. Id like to think that its a conbination of a class with superior bunker capability while also being able to exploit the current burning mechanic.
Ele damage is not crap, it’s actually quite high if you go fire on celestial ele. That’s partly due to burning, which needs to be changed. Everyone has higher damage atm, I’m not saying it’s only ele’s problem. All I did was pointing out that it needs to be fixed, the class is getting additional 150 power for no reason.
Diamon skin needs a rework, it’s a badly designed trait. Stone heart just provides too much without much effort and it’s a partly passive trait. The damage decrease is quite high due to the fact you’re not able to proc fire and air on the ele.
Then Tempest defense should have a higher cooldown, it’s quite low for what the trait provides.
Don’t know if you deserve a cage or an award at this point Rosicky.
I’m up for the cage.
As for ele, I honestly think this has lots to do with burning, which needs to be fixed. Also, the fire line adds 150 power in each attunement + 150 in fire, that needs to be fixed, too. Not fan of Blinding Ashes either, don’t like traits like this, same goes for Diamond skin and Stone heart, they provide quite too much sustain for the ele. However, at this state I’m not even mad since there’s just too much damage around.
I don’t know how to feel about people saying s/f fresh air ele is the best spec atm. Like really.
Re read the 150 power trait. K? K. You’re a funny guy. Cried about both EA’s being moved to GM, did not see the possibility of how OP ele would be if we were allowed to trait into 3 lines…(When I called it way back then…) and bam…You’re asking for a nerf. Oh how quickly you flip flop.
I did read it, the trait states you gain 150 power in fire attunement, it doesn’t state you gain 150 power in each attunement and 150 more in fire, so 300 in total. It’s bugged, your point? Yes, I would like to see nerfs to some things, not to something that’s crucial for ele, your logic is quite flawed. Not wanting some specific nerf doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want any nerf.
Yes you are right its bugged. 150 power is maybe 5% more dmg and eles dmg is pretty crap in anything but air or fire as you know so I doubt this is really a major issue breaking the class currently. Let’s not try and imply that a class needs a nerf because of a bug, this seems like your intention but perhaps I am wrong. I think it’s reasonable to be concerned about how diamond skin works if youre running in pubs since you might not have a good comp vs it. Stone heart is probably sort of annoying if youre on a mesmer or thief so i can feel your pain, but come on is stone heart really op? Is diamond skin really op? Are these traits breaking the game? Id like to think not, not by them selves anyway. Id like to think that its a conbination of a class with superior bunker capability while also being able to exploit the current burning mechanic.
I think burning just needs a cap in PvP, somewhere in between 5 and 10 stacks while having the damage start out weak but exponentially grow as the stacks increase. This way people wouldnt necessarily need to worry about removing the stacks until they hit a certain number. I think it’s great that you have to be on your toes and clear scary conditions like burning in the fly, but I find it overwhelming when Ive run out of condition clears because the target is soley focused on burning me to death and can apply a burn every 5 or so seconds…
As far as other classes apparently being op in other aspects, I bet a lot if you would be surprised with how many traits are bugged in a classes favor atm
yeah it’s insane. cele eles are stupid OP now. thought it was bad before. if you don’t think cele eles are over the top, then you haven’t played against a good one.
Celestial it self isn’t making the ele op. Blame the burning meta
Don’t know if you deserve a cage or an award at this point Rosicky.
I’m up for the cage.
As for ele, I honestly think this has lots to do with burning, which needs to be fixed. Also, the fire line adds 150 power in each attunement + 150 in fire, that needs to be fixed, too. Not fan of Blinding Ashes either, don’t like traits like this, same goes for Diamond skin and Stone heart, they provide quite too much sustain for the ele. However, at this state I’m not even mad since there’s just too much damage around.
I don’t know how to feel about people saying s/f fresh air ele is the best spec atm. Like really.
Re read the 150 power trait. K? K. You’re a funny guy. Cried about both EA’s being moved to GM, did not see the possibility of how OP ele would be if we were allowed to trait into 3 lines…(When I called it way back then…) and bam…You’re asking for a nerf. Oh how quickly you flip flop.
Lol @ him complaining about 150 power minor, not even understanding how it works.
It’s OK to keep a twitch class build or two, as long as the designers can come up with a few mechanics that let a person who is older and slower, but smart and strategic, still win 1v1s and skirmishes.
I am not saying the alternative should be brain dead easy. It should require smarts and experience, even when you cannot do amazing reflex response patterns on the keys.
Right now I just avoid skirmishes and 1v1s and try to stealth around stealing points back, or bunkering with minion master.
I tanked 4 condi users on a point for a few mins before help arrived, then I camped their spawn point since they all desperately wanted to try and kill me. 2 Necros 2 Mesmers both full condition builds and an Elementalist. None of them could stop me. Were they bad? Yeah definitely, but did I have luck not dying? Most certainly.
off hand dagger lacks quite a bit of defense compared to focus. I don’t think there is anything wrong with d/d’s current state. I do think burning in general could be toned down a little bit in pvp though.
Oh you are right, I was under the impression all fire shields reduced condition duration by -20%. My bad. Would still be nice if they all reduced duration since this new “meta” burns you like a witch at the Salem trials.
The off hand dagger era is gone, focus has taken over. Which makes me kind of sad… If they would just do something about Churning Earth taking 10000000000 years to cast I would be happy.
As for fire grab, I think the hit box could maybe be slightly larger and thats about it.
Also nerf burning please, it needs a cap in pvp, like 10 or 15 perhaps?
Fire shield is supposed to reduce condition duration by 20%, I just tested this out and found that it still does not reduce any condition duration… I would have thought this latest patch would fix that issue. With the rise in condition usage it would be nice to get fire shield working as intended…
Two bunker eles still cant kill eachother :/ on the bright side I dont feel like im stuck with playing bunker on ele anymore, dat scepter burst potential!
Lots of people in this thread too busy playing forumwars2 and not enough guildwars2… Id much rather take a hit to one of the many braindead passive traits which randomly proc than lose half the value that vigor provides. Look at the big picture, Anet is slowly stripping away the active part of the game and replacing it with passive play. I bet many of you who are for the change just think about all the times you were countered by a dodge and then think that a vigor nerf will solve your problems. Oh, you think so? Maybe you should re evaluate how much the vigor nerf would “help” you win fights after you read up on all the new passive traits which are going to destroy you. Next patch youre going to vs builds where your opponent could potentially be dumb as a sack of potatoes and he’ll still beat ya due to his “pro” passive skillz.
I see some people saying ele is going to be OP etc.(I disagree) most likely with the D/D Ele in mind. Looking at the changes and watching the videos I haven’t seen much mentioned about condition duration and boon duration.
The popular D/D build will probably end up like ?/?/?/6/6 depending on what you like. Since stats are being removed from trait lines and condition duration and boon duration are considered stats then that means less boon uptime. 6 arcana gives you +30% now post patch you would have +0% if you take the trait(can’t remember it’s name) you can get +10% I don’t suspect many D/D ele’s will take that trait.
I think 6 Arcana ele’s will gravitate toward elemental attunement, renewing stamina, evasive Arcana, but you won’t have as much boon uptime anymore. Runes would get +30-40% depending on rune type.
I am just coming back to the game after a year away so maybe I missed a discussion on it.
I don’t foresee them putting condition duration or boon duration on armor, weapons, or trinkets.
Elemental attunement is becoming a minor brah, you can stack renewing stamina, elemental contingency and Evasive Arcana. We’re gonna have even more boons with the d/d meta >.> also, Arcana line = 10% boon duration post patch, from another minor trait might I add.
I can’t even imagine how crazy activating retal upon entering fire and being hit will be vs some bursty glassy classes!
I listed earth shield to show elementalist is the class with most invuln in game and it is. And if you are saying elementalist is so depending on the vigor boon, then there is a balancing issue. So maybe we should start searching for other defensive tools for the elementalist instead of holding the old vigor.
pretty sure mesmer is the class with the most reliable vulnerability application, could be wrong though. Yeah sure elementalists could use some utility skills and traits to get 25 stacks of vulnerability, its possible. But no one builds that way because you’d end up being garbage.
Second off, Evasive Arcana forces dodges to obtain specific effects, sure you could argue to try and also dodge an ability which may break you while also obtaining your effect, but come on now thats not always the best choice of action. For a class that is being forced to dodge if picking up the EA trait in order to obtain a desired effect, they should also be able to obtain a decent amount of endurance regen IMO anyway… I’m all about the active play and I think these passive effects they’re giving the class to soak up damage are just stupid… And before anyone tries to argue that vigor is a “passive” buff, you have to actively dodge in order to utilize vigor…
I have noticed this as well, played tons of spvp on my ele, hardly any direct verbal assault. Made a ranger and played maybe 10 games total and 7 or 8 of those games I was insulted for using rapid fire which would basically instagib my target. Oh gee I wonder why they mad >.>
+1 agree 100% with OP. People saying otherwise are just plebs xD The only thing that is going to get me to continue to play gw2 is an interesting class mechanic which I can learn and grow on. Active play please, make these passive traits instead trigger with the use of an ability or utility skill.
This is direct ele stealth nerf :P The only squishy profession that desperately needs to dodge in order to stay alive – no build in survivability
Point is, some classes depend more on vigor/dodge then others and are hurt by this change more. Most likely anet did not take that into account and did not made any compensation to them.
I kind of does seem that way but I do think Anet “compensated” for it as well. More heal on EA dodge in spvp, cray cray blinding ashes blinds, potential 13 second shocking aura cd along with tempest defense shocking aura trait when cc’d, 10% dmg reduction earth minor when in 360 range… I’d rather actively avoid attacks though opposed to randomly or passively soaking up damage dealt. I don’t feel as good about winning a fight when I’m just basically surviving off of traits I picked up which I have no control over….
tanky ish specs like dd ele, cele engi who had 50% uptime easy… (+60% in teamfight from CtA)
vigor indeed needed a tonedown but in the side of the skills that providing it, not yolo easywork lets nerf to 50%… guess anet didnt think about squishy specs who actually RELY on evades 0-24 to not get killed while above mentioned ones just gonna take a big sigh and pretend like noothing happened.
Not true at all!
D/D eles have 100%+ uptime (renewing stamina every 5sec for 5sec without boon duration+all cantrips 6s/each) Thus they don’t even run Sigil of Energy which would be a great fit for them with their Evasive Arcana trait.
I still used sigil of energy on my ele when I played d/d or d/f, which I felt I needed especially since I prefered using a zerker amulet. Energy sigil basically made up for being forced to use dodges with EA. And depending on the class/build I fought, I needed every one of those dodges as quickly as I could obtain them in order to avoid very devastating cc or dmg.
- a little less dodging makes dodging more important and more skill is required to actually use dodges effectively.
- Energy-Sigils might become more important and we might see less Air/Fire…..
- There are tons of upcoming “on-dodge” or “on-evade” triggered traits, like the bomb with blast-finisher on Engi, reflect on Mesmer and so on, so a little less dodges might be needed to balance this out.
- Vigor is to important as it is and there are certain classes (in other words, there is the necro), that has no access to it. Nerfing vigor will balance this huge drawback of the necro out a bit.
I thought about some of what you’re saying as well. Its true that once the patch hits dodging will need to be more about skill and less about randomness… for some classes… Thief for example will be able to dodge even more often than they can now >.<
Completely wrong. Read patch notes and feline grace (how it works now) again please.
lol you’re a tad too late I edited my post questioning that trait. good to know
- a little less dodging makes dodging more important and more skill is required to actually use dodges effectively.
- Energy-Sigils might become more important and we might see less Air/Fire…..
- There are tons of upcoming “on-dodge” or “on-evade” triggered traits, like the bomb with blast-finisher on Engi, reflect on Mesmer and so on, so a little less dodges might be needed to balance this out.
- Vigor is to important as it is and there are certain classes (in other words, there is the necro), that has no access to it. Nerfing vigor will balance this huge drawback of the necro out a bit.
I thought about some of what you’re saying as well. Its true that once the patch hits dodging will need to be more about skill and less about randomness… for some classes… Thief for example will be able to dodge even more often than they can now >.< … If I am understanding that 75% bonus vigor trait buff correctly, its an additional 75% right? accumulating to 120% endurance regen when also effected by vigor?
Shouldn’t you start by nerfing the value to perhaps 75% and allow players “test” from there? Going from 100% to 50% seems a bit extreme does it not? Is the goal to butcher the value and steadily increase it to “work as intended” so people will not complain about vigor constantly being nerfed?
Oh the interesting combos you could get off if you could swap to a conjured weapon instantly, I’d use at least one. Would need other utility to handle cc and probably keep lightning flash, for pvp anyway.
RNG isn’t the same as passive play. Some randomness is okay as long as it doesn’t overshadow actions and decisions of players. You may be confusing procs with random elements, since procs tend to have a random aspect. Powerful procs are generally bad.
Lets not get caught up in semantics now… The important part of this subject is that active play remain the focus of this game.
Step 1.) Remove passive play, that also means remove RNG
Step 2.) Supply each class with skills which apply a devastating effect, this doesn’t necessarily mean dps.
step 3.) Add counter play to those skill combos, give your players a chance to counter, react or preemptively predict the skill combinations which may be used against them. (Via educated guess, not random preemptive guessing)
Annnnd PRESTO! You’re on your way to becoming the game you’ve always wanted to be, please stop heading in the wrong direction by toning down the amount of active play (With traits) if you really want to become an Esport
This is probably just a case of rock paper shotgun, you’re the paper staring at the end of the barrel. Sorry to inform you that this game doesn’t solely come down to skill, although I wish skill was the only thing that mattered. You probably got countered, Shatter Mesmer is not over all OP in general they’re just really good vs specific classes 1v1.
I think many people have an issue with shatter Mesmers because its not a class you can just walk up to and annihilate if the Mesmer knows what they’re doing, you have to understand the mechanic behind the class and know how to position your self while they’re stealthed. Once you learn the class inside and out and get really good at dodging/avoiding/predicting shatters, only the extremely talented ones will give you any trouble. Speaking in general terms, disregarding counters.
Lets just make chill freeze people in place so they are eternally immobile and while were at it add some sick mortal combat sub zero finishers. All hail your new balance warlord <-
I feel like they’re going about redesigning the class all wrong! I think its fine if they take away boons or spells upon dodging, but dear god don’t just replace those traits with other passives that make the Elementalist passively soak up damage! Anet you talk about trying to become an Esport yet you throw us traits that a toddler could take full advantage of. You can’t build a class around passives and expect to become an Esport, there needs to be a challenge behind playing every class! Players should feel like they EARNED that kill because they outplayed their opponent! As of now almost none of your classes provide much skill to play. Its all about rock paper shotgun.
Design classes that provide great risk for huge rewards, design classes that are hard to master, design classes that have huge learning curves and high skill caps, design classes that take years to master. THIS IS HOW YOU ESPORT!
Invoker originally had 20+ something skills while most other heroes only had 4-5. It would be unfair if you gave ele even more skills than other classes.
Yes he originally had 27 spells, and that design was also very much in beta, the current 10 spell total with access to 2 at a time, and a short cd to summon spells makes much more sense imo.
If you think the Invoker is intuitive then you must have never played it. Having to memorize the combinations alone is difficult but then being able to quickly pull off a spell chain requires an amazing amount of knowledge and experience with the character.
And it isn’t even just hit three keys then Invoke, since it also takes into account the previous orbs you have which means that a skilled player will be able to accomplish invoke a spell with fewer keystrokes than someone who just memorize the the three key combos.
Well since there is no right way to play Invoker when considering which spells to use first I figured “intuitive” was a suitable word. I have played Invoker ~500 games and I also agree with your description of the hero. Perhaps I should have just used the word “complex” opposed to “intuitive”.
If you can’t tell, this “class” uses 3 different types of orbs in different combinations to flip through different abilities. I don’t know how you’d make a playstyle like this, flow, with the current WASD design for movement in mind, but I do enjoy the intuitive design of Invoker.
I’d much rather prefer to 100% actively mitigate dmg opposed to recovering from it when ever I felt like it. IMO it would be way cooler to have to intercept an attack in order to heal a good amount opposed to just healing to full when ever I feel like it. Wouldn’t it be cool if this is how sword functioned?
Make tornado function sort of like it does for invoker in dota! Point in specific direction, tornado is cast from body of hero and travels in direction casted, if it comes in contact with an enemy it lifts them in the air keeping them from performing any action until dropping back to the ground.
Mastering DS? Excuse me? What’s to master? What on earth do you think us Necros have been doing since BWE1?
The top necro players from Paradigm etc. are all saying similar things re: bugs, balance and design. I appreciate we might not have the same godlike holistic view of the design you’ve created here Jon, but there’s a serious shortage of people who think the necro is fine and any issues are a result of L2P deficit.
I don’t believe I’ve ever said this to a developer before, but if you could provide video proof of someone utilising DS to devastating effect I’d be more than happy to accept your statement as relevant/accurate. The “good PvP” videos of necros dried up immediately after BWE2 and the DS HP/LF nerf.
6 second ICD on DS which can be traited to stun break, give retaliation and stability for 3 seconds. um, yeah if you use death shroud on point you can turn a necro into a god.
But this game is actually increasing rng, why would they try to decrease it? : O And please dont tell me that it is a bad design – you can say it about 90% of things in gw2 pvp.
Heavy rng in a game trying to be skill based (esports) is a terrible design…
The way I think they may change elementalist class mechanic is the longer you stay in that attunement the stronger that element will be. Fire for example would increase power, higher/ longer burn rates. Possibly reducing CD’s in fire also. Just a thought would give us more incentive to stay in a attunement.
I’d absolutely hate a playstyle forcing you to hug one attunement, I play Elementalist for the vast utility choice, not so I can hug one attunement.
I don’t think Mesmers and Necros are in as bad of a position as some people claim, I think they could use a little bit of love in some aspects but they’re not terrible choices to play.
Shatter mesmer has some of the highest and most reliable burst combos I think I have ever witnessed.
First of all, they aren’t races, they are professions. Secondly, you do have a swap but its the f1-4 skills, giving the ele 20 different skills to use on top of their utilities. If they were given weapon swap, that would be 40 different ones. So no.
Its really more like 15 or 16 different skills since a few of the auto attacks are almost never used along with some of the actual skills themselves, depending on weapon choice.
