Guild Wars 2

Dusty Moon.4382:

WOW – 2 threads on the same topic? You are raging aren’t you….

2?

Teniz.5249:

The Ascalon Dungeon and many other Dungeons have buggy npcs SINCE the game launched, I myself wrote many maaaaaaaaaaaaany tickets to the support but ofc nothing happened always the same answer.

So i bet 100g all buggy Dungeon npcs will get fixed when we can craft precursers (never) gg wp anet.

Yes, that’s why I want that “hard reset” button. If ANet isn’t able to debug the events (or dungeons), then let us restart the events ourselves.

In the specific scenario I am referring to Tzark talks to Warmaster Grast. The dialogue implies that both NPC’s were alive, yet Grast was dead. Thus the dialogue stopped and we weren’t able to progress. Well, we revived Grast but the dialogue didn’t continue, thus the path bugged out. If we would be able to restart the dialogue by resetting the NPC’s, we would’ve been able to complete the path.

But this scenario does apply to nearly all events or dungeon paths that bug out: Some of the required circumstances weren’t given, so the progression stopped. But the progression does not continue once all required circumstances are given.

If the players would be able to reset the progression, the event could be de-bugged.

Ascalon path 3. Actually path 2 is more prevalent but the bug could be avoided if we were able to rewind the last step the NPC’s were doing.

Add a freaking de-bugging option to all NPC’s conversations.
Yet another dungeon path attempt got ruined by your marvelous NPC AI. And if you aren’t able to fix those bugs, give us atleast the option to restart the NPC’s protocol or simply reset the protocol to the last action it was flawlessly performing. That would be atleast a workaround.

I don’t hope so. Mix’n’match is one of the last things really going for this game.

Aerin Dark Water.6283:

I was looking through some concept art and spotted a hair style that Looks awesome, but not in the game. It’s on the print that features the medium armor for Twilight Arbor. The Sylvari modeling the armor has a long ponytail of thorny vines and ivy. It idea is very pleasing for more long “hair” selections for characters that have a more darker look.

Just wanted to point that one out since I thought it was a cool concept.

Link, image or anything?

Do you have? Don’t even answer that, it doesn’t matter. The devs can do this as they’ve done this dozen of times before.

schmots.6803:

That is exactly what that means. the shoulders are not there own mesh, they are a part of the rest of the armor. Separating them would require creating two new meshes.

Noone said they just have snap their fingers and it’s done. But it isn’t that hard either.

Of course it’s one mesh. That doesn’t mean that the shoulders are connected to the rest of the armor or that it would be impossible to separate them.

Palador.2170:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

There are outfits where the gloves can be hidden, take the witch outfit as example.

The witch outfit used to be town clothes, same with any others where you can hide the gloves. Thus, the gloves were made separate. Outfits are supposed to be one piece + head, so there’s no reason for them to make the gloves (or shoulders) separate.

Since the shadow assassin outfit has shoulders which are separate, there shouldn’t be a problem making them optional.

Wanze maybe you should edit the topic name so people stop saying you want to use the normal karma… gosh.

Vayne.8563:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

As example: No matter how good a story may be, if you can just progress some small steps every two weaks, this story gets spoiled by boredom and resentment.
That’s why I still think the personal story was better, even if the story was more obvious and the story-telling worse. You can do the PS how fast you want, not how fast the devs are delivering new updates. Beside of that, the game still needs a lot of polishing. The game is neither balanced, nor “perfectly imbalanced” and weird and/or frustrating bugs happen everywhere and all the time.

What’s stopping you from doing this story at your own pace. Wait for several chapters, do them when you want. You don’t have to do them today.

Or are you saying this would be better if everyone was forced to wait, and we got it all at one time?

I am saying thet they should separate the content. They shouldn’t tie their story releases to a two-week pattern. They should rather implement time consuming thing you have to to first in order to progress.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

UnknownScoundrel.9168:

Has anyone seen any dev updates regarding the shoulders?

Pretty sure they aren’t going to suddenly change how Outfits work all of a sudden. Nothing can be hidden save Headgear.

If they ever do, it would be in the Patch Notes as a sort of feature.

There are outfits where the gloves can be hidden, take the witch outfit as example.

lordkrall.7241:

Im Mudbone.1437:

“They” need to do something, like making each LS update larger because the FAR FROM CASUAL players have nothing more to do once done, as it is EVERYTHING can be done and finished with in 3 to 5 hours leaving us with nothing to do until the next TINY LS update.

So basically releasing more content, and as such taking longer between updates which basically gives the same result, other than if they spread it out you have new stuff for 3-5 hours every two weeks instead of new stuff for 10 hours every second month?

As example: No matter how good a story may be, if you can just progress some small steps every two weaks, this story gets spoiled by boredom and resentment.
That’s why I still think the personal story was better, even if the story was more obvious and the story-telling worse. You can do the PS how fast you want, not how fast the devs are delivering new updates. Beside of that, the game still needs a lot of polishing. The game is neither balanced, nor “perfectly imbalanced” and weird and/or frustrating bugs happen everywhere and all the time.

GW2 is the first MMO I really played, so it’s obviously the best I’ve ever played.
That said, the requirements to beat GW2 are sinking with every patch.
I am hoping for an expansion 2016.

I don’t want housing based on my PS because I want one house where I can find all my characters.

Well, I’m not often having the feeeling that some place got sacrificed in order to put in a jumping puzzle. If you look at Morgans’s Leap in the Caledon Forest as example, I would say it fits almost perfectly. Yet again the lake near the Morgan’s Spiral doesn’t fit. Ther’re ship wrecks and a giant crayfish. I’m not saying that the lake in general does not fit, only the implementation doesn’t. Also the next JP, Dark Reverie does fit very well. The only thing I dislike is the area above this JP, behind the mountain. There is again an open area which fills no purpose. Adding something more, like exotic plants or a small cave, anything would help to break the feeling of just having an area which is not used.
A good example of unused space is the Black Citadel. The alleys are so wide and barely anyone is using them. The alleys are just too wide. Yet again the Gladium District is very nice but rather small. I would like to have more parts like the Gladium District and less like this open areas.

At last, I’m not suggesting to get rid of all wide areas but to get rid of areas which fill no purpose.

Dabuddah.4298:

Note, they still can do photosynthesis since that’s what all plants do and that’s where the Sylvari get their energy, but the nutrients are given to them from the consumed foods.

To do photosynthesis, a plant needs chlorophyll, a green pigment. Thus, only green Sylvari could do photosynthesis.

So I’ve just checked the new male faces for Sylvari and I have to say, man, ANet has to be lazy. 4 faces are like copy paste, just with different scars, eyebrows and iris.

Aidan Savage.2078:

You’re not realizing the actual scale of the game world. Unless Tyria is on some dinky dwarf planet, traveling from The Grove to Divinity’s Reach would take a day or two if traveling by pack animal if using realistic measurements. The entire reason there are Asura Gates to facilitate travel not because it’s easier on players, but because the distances they’re spanning are just that great. I would not be surprised if the scale was close to 1:100, or even 1:500.

And that is the reason why the world lacks detail? I would say, if the maps are already smaller than they should be, then the devs should put more stuff in them. Seriuosly, the lack of detail is neither caused by the size of tyria, nor is it affecting the size of tyria, neither good, nor bad.

I would like to make a thread about a topic that I have in mind quite some time now.
I’ve played GuildWars 2 since the release and something what bothers me further and further is the missing depth the maps have.

The issue can be parted in two different problems:

1) Missing depth in towns: There are no corners. You got wide places everywhere but almost no corners, secret places or alleys, very few accessible houses and confusing measurement for objects.
Basically, what I mean is, for the most part, if you can’t look behind a corner from afar, you probably wont be able to get behind this corner.

2) Missing detail in landscapes: I’m not talking about grass, trees or the texture quality. I am talking about the lack of realistic landscapes, caves, bays, hills, anything that would give some variety. There are already some things like that, but it’s not common. The areas without anything on it beside a tree or a rock are way too dominant.

I know these things are like they are for the sake of the performance but I hope this could be considered for future maps.

So what I’m suggesting is to get rid of big wide areas which are simply empty. Areas which fill no purpose but to be passed. I would like to give roads and routes more meaning by cutting of some other paths and by “concentrating the action” on those roads. The other parts of the maps shouldn’t be meant to simply travel through, that’s what the raods are for, but to be explored. Nice landscapes, that aren’t easy accessible, neither to see them, nor to travel to them.

I would like to explain the problems I have by showcasing Drytop, the new map. There is a village, which is basically just a wide place with two rocks in it and a canyon which hardly fills any purpose. If I think of an oriental town I think of small, winding alleys between all houses, lots of angles and impasses. Prosperity, the town, is basically just one wall and one house you can go into. It greatly lacks detail. Another thing I would like to point out is the lack of details in the skybox. if you go all the way up to the diving goggle and look around, you hardly get the feeling of being in a real desert or wasteland. I think this feeling could be easily countered by a better skybox which has some hills, dunes or Oases. It would get perfect if the skybox of one map would teaser the landscape which can be found in the next map. A map which also greatly lacks detail is Snowden Drifts which I highly dislike. Almost the whole left part of the map serves no purpose at all, it’s just a big, open, wide area which is completely boring. There is no difference if you would take the southern route, the northern route or the road in the middle. It lacks also proper mountains. Either there is a single rock which is so steep that you can’t climb it or it’s just a flat hill.

I would at last leave some positive things, areas where the map creation has been done right or where the current map design doesn’t suffer that much.

Map creation done right: Salma District. This is what I think would be a good rate of detail. Personally, I would like to be able to walk into all houses, I know this wont be possible. But I would like to get into every third house atleast, I would like to have smaller but more ways around, more to explore, more secrets to discover.

Where the current map creation works:
Wayfarer Foothills. The current map design waives large woods or anything that blocks your vision, mostly because it would hit the performance too hard. This is however the problem I have with the most maps, the quantity of stuff you could find. A map which that doesn’t apply to is Wayfarer Foothills, where you would expect, based on its snowy mountain theme, no great detail. Yet the south part of it has a good degree of detail, it simply fits.

Everytime I open a window in front of GW2, my graphics will bug out more and more.
Basically, the lightning of certain textures will be replaced for splitseconds with a colored chess pattern (see attachments for example). The most extreme example of this happens when I open another game when GW2 is still running. If I do so, most of the graphics will bug out and I have to restart the game (see last attachment).
This bug is existing since two weaks now and I’ve already re-downloaded the gw2.dat. Does anyone know how to fix this?

DarkSpirit.7046:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Wanze.8410:

Frequently we see new topics popping up from people who complain about the tp and the profits being made by hardcore flippers/traders.

Many people think that it should be limited and be more in line with rewards from other gameplay.

Why should anyone be rewarded doing the things that everyone else wants to do?

If that is how the world works, I want a pay raise and a promotion while I am taking the rest of the year off work too.

You don’t have complete control over the real life but ArenaNet does have complete control over GuildWars 2. So if one of the main goals of the devs is to reward the same amount of skill put into a certain aspect of a game evenly, which I hope it is, then the proposal Wanze has made does in fact compliment this goal. It is a nerf to the traiding post, because you wont be able to trade as much as you’re now. Yet again the nerf to HamBow warriors was, at last, a nerf, yet it compliments the PvP balance. A nerf to the traiding post will be a nerf, that’s for sure. But it will compliment the wealth balance.

If you don’t reward work then nobody would do the work. If nobody does any work then the economy would be in trouble. Discouraging the use of the TP and trading does not necessarily lead to a better game.

Noone proposed to completely destroy the reward you could gain.

The stability on Lich Form does last longer than the actual skill, atleast for me. However, when Lich Form ends, the stability gets removed aswell.
Is this intentionally or a bug?

DarkSpirit.7046:

Wanze.8410:

Frequently we see new topics popping up from people who complain about the tp and the profits being made by hardcore flippers/traders.

Many people think that it should be limited and be more in line with rewards from other gameplay.

Why should anyone be rewarded doing the things that everyone else wants to do?

If that is how the world works, I want a pay raise and a promotion while I am taking the rest of the year off work too.

You don’t have complete control over the real life but ArenaNet does have complete control over GuildWars 2. So if one of the main goals of the devs is to reward the same amount of skill put into a certain aspect of a game evenly, which I hope it is, then the proposal Wanze has made does in fact compliment this goal. It is a nerf to the traiding post, because you wont be able to trade as much as you’re now. Yet again the nerf to HamBow warriors was, at last, a nerf, yet it compliments the PvP balance. A nerf to the traiding post will be a nerf, that’s for sure. But it will compliment the wealth balance.

Theftwind.8976:

It was stated above that NCsoft stock is undervalued. Dropping the hint of a possible expansion to analysts would be a good way to drive the price of the stock upwards. That a “possible” expansion has been hinted at before with an ever changing release date tells me that it is only market manipulation to drive the stock price up so I will not hold my breath on an expansion until an official announcement with a believable release date has been made. In other words do not make much ado about nothing!

Well, the ANet staff isn’t necessary the most talkative, so to say. But given the various thread in which people demand an exansion, they might’ve been heared.
That said, I can recall that NCSoft had announced an expansion earlier, which got vetoed by ANet. So I’ll wait, but I’m in a good mood right now and I hope ANet wont let me down. I definitely support a new expansion.

Swoo.5079:

There has been mention of a GW2 expansion in NCSoft earnings conference calls since ever.

It seems obvious that the original plan for GW2 future development changed with the higher than expected amount of gem store revenue.

It might have been focused on expansions before release, but now, while expansions aren’t completely out of the picture, it is quite possible that Anet/NCSoft figured that free episodic content, with or without occasional expansions, will be more profitable.

I think the expansion will come after S2 has ended, thus in exactly one year. After they’ve released the expansion, given that S2 wont be a complete failure, they’ll probably release S3 2016.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Etienne.3049:

I can’t see this being a good idea. Adding costs to buy orders would mean they need to be even lower for people to make a profit which should increase the difference between buy and sell prices which seems undesireable to me.

His suggestion should limit the profit you could do out of the traiding post. And it does, because it basically means that you have to farm karma first to place buy orders. So the amount of money you could make is not only capped by the amount of gold you’re able to use but also by the amount of karma you have. This is a good idea in my mind, since any other activity in the game is capped by time instead of karma. Even karma farming is capped by time. So this change would basically mean that traiding post flipping would also be capped by time, as is any other activity in the game, that gives reward. Thus traiding post flipping would be brought in line with any other activity.

Keep in mind that some people have 5 to 10 million Karma unused. And these players could be TP Traders. Thus their flipping wouldn’t reach a cap for years to come. This is why I support this.

That is basically a queastion of how much karma has to be used to place buy orders.
The fact that many players have still so much karma is one of the reasons why I’ve suggested that the karma price per item should rise based on how much items you want to buy. It should be very low for players who just want to get some items and unrewarding if someone wants to set up thousands of buy orders (numbers aren’t final).

Etienne.3049:

I can’t see this being a good idea. Adding costs to buy orders would mean they need to be even lower for people to make a profit which should increase the difference between buy and sell prices which seems undesireable to me.

His suggestion should limit the profit you could do out of the traiding post. And it does, because it basically means that you have to farm karma first to place buy orders. So the amount of money you could make is not only capped by the amount of gold you’re able to use but also by the amount of karma you have. This is a good idea in my mind, since any other activity in the game is capped by time instead of karma. Even karma farming is capped by time. So this change would basically mean that traiding post flipping would also be capped by time, as is any other activity in the game, that gives reward. Thus traiding post flipping would be brought in line with any other activity.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

What the hell are you talking about? I talk about farmers, the guys who farm materials. They do sell them on the traiding post, thus they don’t create new gold. Yet they don’t get as much gold as traiding post flippers do. Someone who “farms” champbags is just stupid and not a farmer.

So wait, your whole argument is now “material farmers” don’t make as much money as TP Traders? Sorry, but your arguments change so much, it’s hard to follow some times.

Argumentation 101:
1) If someone brings up an argument which is flawed, doesn’t belong to the topic or can be proven inconsistent, use a counter argument to prove him wrong.

To be precise:
I’ve asked you as someone who doesn’t believe traiding post flipping is healthy, why traiding post flippers are allowed to get more gold than anybody else. Your job, as someone who believes that traiding post flipping is fine is now to give me an ironclad answer.
You answer this quention with the statement that traiding post flippers don’t create new gold, thus, they don’t increase the inflation.
I’ve now given a conter argument to your argument, which states that farmers also do not create new gold, yet they don’t get as much gold as traiding post flippers are.

In regards to this, let me ask the following: Do you also believe that McDonald’s clerk should make the same amount of money as a Medical Doctor?

The answer to this question is pretty simple: You are an idiot.
But one could say that this a well-placed metaphor, in which the traiding post flipper is the doctor and the famer the worker at McDonalds.
This is wrong.
A farmer does spend as much time and effort in searching for a good spots to farm materials as you are to find new items you can flip. He also shares the same amount of risk.
Thus, the farmer can’t be compared with a worker at McDonalds but could be compared better with a doctor with a different specialization.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

And there is that no-brainer argument again: The gold that traiding post flippers get is gold from other people, not newly created gold. And that’s the reason why traiding post flippers are allowed to get the most revenue in the whole kittening game.

That is stupid!

So if traiding post flippers get that much money because they’re not resposible for inflation, why are material farmers not as rich as traiding post flippers? They also don’t create new gold if they sell their stuff to the traiding post.

The argument isn’t even an answer to the question why traiding post flippers should get more gold than anybode else, yet it is repeated by everybody.

John should probably close this thread I can’t stand this idiocy anymore.

You only think the argument is stupid because you don’t understand the economic impacts of each. John’s last respond gives a really good example that you should read.

To simplify it for you, If Germany were to print billions of Deutsche Marks (not using Euros to avoid potential confusion), and released it into your economy, the value of each Deutsche Mark would fall. Same thing applies to newly created Gold in game. So by increasing the amount of currency (in game or in real life), you effectively increase the cost of goods across the board.

Despite I don’t even know what this example should prove, it’s wrong on multiple layers. First off all, as said, farmers do not create new gold, yet they earn way less than traiding post flippers can earn. Secondly, if there would be more gold, people would buy more and the prices will rise until the people can afford as much items as they could before, all just has gotten more expensive. There is a new balance. It’s not better, it’s not worse, it’s just different. John don’t want to release more new gold to the market from just one type of gameplay because all players would have to participate in it in order to keep up. That is understandable and (IMPORTANT NOTE ->)
it is not my intention to higher the prices but to bring the revenue one could get from traiding post flipping in line with the revenue of other activities, that require as much time and/or skill as traiding post flipping does.

Again, you don’t understand the economic concepts at play here. You can’t call something wrong, when you simply don’t know what’s right. Farmers DO create new Gold. Where do you think their Gold comes from? From the Champ bags they open. This money is newly created currency.

Your “intention” to not create higher prices is negated by your lack of understanding of the subject matter. The suggestion to increase revenue is what creates higher prices to begin with. If the newly created currency doesn’t have proper sinks, the currency is devalued. Ergo, prices rise.

Edit – And you know what happens when prices rise? The common player is hurt, and the TP Trader isn’t affected, as their profits increase with nearly the same velocity as the increase in the cost of goods.

What the hell are you talking about? I talk about farmers, the guys who farm materials. They do sell them on the traiding post, thus they don’t create new gold. Yet they don’t get as much gold as traiding post flippers do. Someone who “farms” champbags is just stupid and not a farmer.

Ayrilana.1396:

He could be a visual learner so graphs would probably be more effective. If I have time tonight I’ll find some and post them on here or at least a link to somewhere.

I found this link to be a good read.

http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/print_money.htm

However. I’ll still try to find something with graphs later.

That’s exactly what I’ve said one post above: If players would get more gold, the supply would be drained until the prices are on the same level as the gold is, which means that nobody gets a benefit from it. However, they also have no disadvantage. If people have twice as much money and everything is twice as expensive then basically nothing has changed.
However the article you’ve linked has one flaw, even if it deosn’t apply to GW2. The auther neglects the fact that everybody who wants to buy a XBOX actually has the money to afford it. So if Walmart would keep the same prices but orders twice as much XBOXes (what’s the plural of XBOX?) and Microsoft would hire twice as much workers to produce twice as much XBOXes, they wont have a loss because they can sell twice as much XBOXes. They will make twice as much profit and twice as much people have a work, who can buy a XBOX from the money they just got.
That however would only work under perfect circumstances.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

And there is that no-brainer argument again: The gold that traiding post flippers get is gold from other people, not newly created gold. And that’s the reason why traiding post flippers are allowed to get the most revenue in the whole kittening game.

That is stupid!

So if traiding post flippers get that much money because they’re not resposible for inflation, why are material farmers not as rich as traiding post flippers? They also don’t create new gold if they sell their stuff to the traiding post.

The argument isn’t even an answer to the question why traiding post flippers should get more gold than anybode else, yet it is repeated by everybody.

John should probably close this thread I can’t stand this idiocy anymore.

You only think the argument is stupid because you don’t understand the economic impacts of each. John’s last respond gives a really good example that you should read.

To simplify it for you, If Germany were to print billions of Deutsche Marks (not using Euros to avoid potential confusion), and released it into your economy, the value of each Deutsche Mark would fall. Same thing applies to newly created Gold in game. So by increasing the amount of currency (in game or in real life), you effectively increase the cost of goods across the board.

Despite I don’t even know what this example should prove, it’s wrong on multiple layers. First off all, as said, farmers do not create new gold, yet they earn way less than traiding post flippers can earn. Secondly, if there would be more gold, people would buy more and the prices will rise until the people can afford as much items as they could before, all just has gotten more expensive. There is a new balance. It’s not better, it’s not worse, it’s just different. John don’t want to release more new gold to the market from just one type of gameplay because all players would have to participate in it in order to keep up. That is understandable and (IMPORTANT NOTE ->)
it is not my intention to higher the prices but to bring the revenue one could get from traiding post flipping in line with the revenue of other activities, that require as much time and/or skill as traiding post flipping does.

anabasis.7346:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

John Smith.4610:

Ok, hypothetical:
We increase rewards to dungeon running to let’s say triple what they currently are. This would make it VERY difficult for almost all players to earn better rewards anywhere but dungeon running.
Now, everyone’s earning money and items all over the place, but we haven’t changed their original preferences for trading. This means a week later, they make the same trade preferences they previous made, just with more money, the more money makes flipping equivalently more profitable and you’re back in the same place. Unless players decide that they want to play the game differently, and there’s no reason they should, or we force them to play differently, and we shouldn’t definitely not, or we fundamentally change the way the game works, then you will have a problem. The profit from “flipping” items is a natural byproduct of people’s preferences inside a game. In my many, many years studying virtual economies I’ve never read or heard of an option that solves your personal dilemma without making the economy, the game and the players much worse off. The point of this hypothetical is the explain that even if I did think this was a problem (which I don’t) fixing it is much more complex than you may realize and you should incorporate that into your suggestions.

So you saying that just bumping up dungeon rewards wouldn’t solve the problem because everything would stay the same, just on a higher level.
But we do have already that kind of revenue in the game. The traiding post flipping can offer the amount of gold you say would be unhealthy to the economy. It does affect less people because less people take the time to get good at flipping the traiding post, but the problem is already there. As I’ve said, I don’t want to stop traiding post flipping in general, even if I disagree with the stated “benefits” flippers offer to the economy, but I want to bring the revenue you can obtain through traiding post flipping on the same level as, lets say the rewards you get through dungeon running, just higher to make up for that great “risk” you take playing the traiding post.
I think Wanze’s idea is a good way to cap the revenue flippers can make, since they have to gather the karma first on order to get gold.

As someone has already told you, the money that some players get from flipping is not bad for the economy because it’s money that has changed hands, it wasn’t created out of thin air. On the contrary, the gold that you get from dungeons is created out of thin air every time you complete a dungeon, just like when your government prints money to inject liquidity in the economy. This printed money estimulates inflation which, out of hand, could potentially destabilize the economy. On top of that, your brilliant idea was to increase the rewards from dungeon.

I’ll have to agree with most people here and assume that you just don’t know the basics so it’s just futile to try to argue with you.

And there is that no-brainer argument again: The gold that traiding post flippers get is gold from other people, not newly created gold. And that’s the reason why traiding post flippers are allowed to get the most revenue in the whole kittening game.

That is stupid!

So if traiding post flippers get that much money because they’re not resposible for inflation, why are material farmers not as rich as traiding post flippers? They also don’t create new gold if they sell their stuff to the traiding post.

The argument isn’t even an answer to the question why traiding post flippers should get more gold than anybode else, yet it is repeated by everybody.

John should probably close this thread I can’t stand this idiocy anymore.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Aidan Savage.2078:

And people STILL dont comprehend that it’s not a problem with the trade post. It’s a problem with players choosing not to take their gods be kitten ed time when selling crap.

Seriously though, this thread needs to be closed. It’s 10 pages of the same complaint regurgitated over and over again. Not to mention John cant teach econ to people who dont care to listen.

John’s not going to close it, because some of us are actually providing valuable insight into why the OP is wrong. So while the OP’s reasons for this thread are completely flawed, the discussion against him is actually educating.

So your rant calling me jealous like kitten and a communist is educating? Yeah, keep talking, I’m really curious. And by the way, I’m from Germany, you can call me radical right-wing too if you want.

John Smith.4610:

Ok, hypothetical:
We increase rewards to dungeon running to let’s say triple what they currently are. This would make it VERY difficult for almost all players to earn better rewards anywhere but dungeon running.
Now, everyone’s earning money and items all over the place, but we haven’t changed their original preferences for trading. This means a week later, they make the same trade preferences they previous made, just with more money, the more money makes flipping equivalently more profitable and you’re back in the same place. Unless players decide that they want to play the game differently, and there’s no reason they should, or we force them to play differently, and we shouldn’t definitely not, or we fundamentally change the way the game works, then you will have a problem. The profit from “flipping” items is a natural byproduct of people’s preferences inside a game. In my many, many years studying virtual economies I’ve never read or heard of an option that solves your personal dilemma without making the economy, the game and the players much worse off. The point of this hypothetical is the explain that even if I did think this was a problem (which I don’t) fixing it is much more complex than you may realize and you should incorporate that into your suggestions.

So you saying that just bumping up dungeon rewards wouldn’t solve the problem because everything would stay the same, just on a higher level.
But we do have already that kind of revenue in the game. The traiding post flipping can offer the amount of gold you say would be unhealthy to the economy. It does affect less people because less people take the time to get good at flipping the traiding post, but the problem is already there. As I’ve said, I don’t want to stop traiding post flipping in general, even if I disagree with the stated “benefits” flippers offer to the economy, but I want to bring the revenue you can obtain through traiding post flipping on the same level as, lets say the rewards you get through dungeon running, just higher to make up for that great “risk” you take playing the traiding post.
I think Wanze’s idea is a good way to cap the revenue flippers can make, since they have to gather the karma first on order to get gold.

That does sound good, if the fee fits. It should be rather low for an item each but stack additionally of the quantity of items you want to buy. So to say like 10 karma for each item + 20 karma * quantity of items you want to buy. The numbers aren’t final, it should only encourage smaller listing than large ones.

Ayrilana.1396:

Wow. The quote tags are completely messed up now. Anyway…

For the first part, no. The revenues being evened out don’t matter to you. You, yourself stated that you would not care if dungeon runners made more gold than TP farmers. Clearly if things were the other way around, this thread would not exist as you would not care that there would be no balance.

For the second part, a misspelling? Your explanation of your misspelling is actually changing the entire meaning of that part of your post. And it also doesn’t make much more sense.

Thanks that you know better what I mean than I do. And it’s 4 AM here, I’m lazy.

Ayrilana.1396:

Thanks you for answering my question as I was hoping it would make my point.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

If dungeon runners would earn more than traiding post flippers, then I would be completely fine with that.

So you’re fine if dungeon runners make the most gold over TP flippers but not the other way around. This is conflicting and shows total bias on your part. Your problem is not that there is a disparity between the methods. Your issue is that TP flipping makes more gold than the other methods. This is because you do not believe the TP flipping is a legitimate means to play the game and make gold.

We’re essentially back to my post where I was saying that this entire thread is about you not thinking TP flipping is a legitimate activity in GW2. It really as nothing to do with the disparity.

Go back and read again. I want the revenues evened out. If dungeon runners would as conclusion come out ahaid, then I would have no problem with that since I still consider actually playing the game worth more than standing by the merchant flipping the coins.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Based on the current state of the game, selling dungeon paths wouldn’t give that more revenue than the current traiding post flipping does now over selling dungeon paths.

So you’re saying that in the current state of the game that they’re about even? Why is there an issue then?

That’s a misspelling on my part. I meant that if dungeon running would offer more gold than flipping the traiding post, then the difference between both ways of acquiring gold wouldn’t be that great as it is now.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

If dungeon runners would earn more than traiding post flippers, then I would be completely fine with that.

So at first, your argument was that TP traders should not make more money than you. This led to your feelings that you dislike rich people, as per your previous post.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

The problem I have with traiding post flippers is a simple one. I simply don’t like others to be richer than me

But now that you’d be able to make more money than someone else, it’s completely OK? Because now it benefits you? You lost this argument on multiple levels now.

Nice quoting, you won all my internetz. I’m neither flipping, nor selling dungeons runs, so there will always people who are richer than me. Poor me. :’(

Seriously if you only aim for letting me look like I’m just a jealous child then kittening leave this thread. If you can’t argument on facts and even feel the need to quote me that badly then I have no interest in hearing your opinion.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

1) So your argumentation is that you’re allowed to get so much gold because you’re not creating new one? That’s as stupid as it can get as an argument.

Let’s address this shall we? The mere fact that you don’t understand the concept is one thing. But to call a factual argument “stupid” when you don’t even understand the argument to begin with is another.

It’s like when a child calls me a meanie because I tell them Santa Claus doesn’t exist.

No, there is nothing to discuss. Claiming you have the right to earn more than anybody else because you’re not responsible for inflation is just over the top.

Aidan Savage.2078:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.

It’s not. Anyone claiming flipping is the greatest revenue is a resounding failure in the game.

Yeah those guys with multiple thousand gold simply dropped of the air…

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.

Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?

It is already the most rewarding activity after flipping the traiding post. The problem is that traiding post flippers get way too much gold for what they do. They should get an even amount of gold like 200g per day maximum. That’s the margin a real hardcore dungeon seller could achieve. Flipping the traiding post requires skills that don’t belong to basic MMOs skills. Soloing a dungeon is the supreme discipline of basic MMO skills.

You missed what I was asking. If dungeon sellers made more gold than a TP flipper, would you care?

EDIT: And to follow up with that, what percentage of players do you think are able to do both?

If dungeon runners would earn more than traiding post flippers, then I would be completely fine with that. Based on the current state of the game, selling dungeon paths wouldn’t give that more revenue than the current traiding post flipping does now over selling dungeon paths.
I think that many people would be able to do both. Not on a pro-level certainly, but relative effective. But most people wouldn’t even bother palying the traiding post, they don’t do now, why should they afterwards?
However the gold would be spread more evenly and it would also award all kinds of “skill” the same way.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wrong again.

1) Gold acquisition IS what matters. Newly created Gold is not treated the same as existing Gold. Unless you understand how economics works, it’s really hard to explain this to you. It could take dozens of pages of threads to teach players something as complicated as this. Maybe if you think about the difference between your government printing money, and money that’s exchanged between you and a store. One is newly generated currency that didn’t exist before. The other is existing currencies traded between two parties, in which case one party is taxed.

2) There’s no guarantee that a TP trader will continue to make money. He could make 50 Gold in a day, or he could lose 300 Gold. Dungeons reward items and Gold at the end, but if you fail, the Dungeon doesn’t take away Gold from your bank.

3) Someone running Arah all day makes more money than me. Just because 1% of the population can make a lot of money, doesn’t mean anything is broken. In fact, the economy is working well because of it. So until you can provide a solid argument against an economics expert like John Smith, your whole thread is based off of your own personal opinions that you don’t like that players make more money than you.

1) So your argumentation is that you’re allowed to get so much gold because you’re not creating new one? That’s as stupid as it can get as an argument.

2) Ten. Thousand. Gold. And more. Someone does seem to make reliable profit out of the traiding post.

3) If you earn less than 100g average per day then the problem I have with certain traiding post flippers doesn’t even apply to you. Go away! Leave!

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.

Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?

It is already the most rewarding activity after flipping the traiding post. The problem is that traiding post flippers get way too much gold for what they do. They should get an even amount of gold like 200g per day maximum. That’s the margin a real hardcore dungeon seller could achieve. Flipping the traiding post requires skills that don’t belong to basic MMOs skills. Soloing a dungeon is the supreme discipline of basic MMO skills.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

~~~snip~~~

One more thing. If you think it’s so easy to make money on the TP, why is it that you aren’t rich yourself?

Basically because it’s boring as hell and I enjoy running dungeons with my guildies. That said I still look for the most efficient way of making gold. There are other reasons too but I don’t feel like formulating them now properly.

Wanze.8410:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Ayrilana.1396:

You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.

Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should ge a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.

Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…

If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.

The last paragraph is an opinion.

Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.

It also doesnt take much more than watching a youtube guide on how to solo a dungeon, someone else already done the work for you. Another difference is that this is a linear and repetitive task because the AI doesnt behave randomly.

I will show you a different point of view:

You already conceded that flippers and speculators have a beneficial function to the economy. In order for prices to be close to equilibrium and to accelerate the process of finding a new price equilibrium , if a sudden demand spike sets in, a certain amount of flipping and speculating (“trading for profit”) has to be done per day.
Lets assume the global daily flipping volume is 1 million gold and the daily investments for speculation are 1 million as well. Flipping gives 15% (150k gold) profit, long term investments give 50% (500k gold).

Now i agree that flipping/speculating isnt the favourite gamemode of most players.
But the 650k gold of profits are up for grabs every day, they have to be consumed, otherwise the market goes more out of balance and profit margins get even higher.

if there are only 6.5k traders, they will make a daily profit of 100g but ifthere are 65k traders, they only make 10g profit per day.

Think of trading for profit as a dirty deed, an unwanted task by most people. It has a daily volume and a fixed profit pool. In order to meet the daily quota, those profits have to be distributed somehow. If only a few people do it on a daily basis, they get lots of profits but the more people do it and share the load, the less profits for everybody.

Its self regulation, quite simply.

As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.

Let me try to simply my response to this, as you clearly still don’t understand certain things. It might be that American isn’t your primary language, so bear with me.

1) Profits are not rewards. Rewards are newly generated wealth that never existed in the game. Profits are “existing” wealth that’s being transferred between players, and the TP takes away 15% of the value, acting as a sink. Your example fails because you’re comparing two completely different things.

2) 5% of 2 Gold is 10 Silver. Dungeon runners make more money per hour than that. In fact, I can make that money simply by mining Mithril ore, and selling it to a merchant.

3) You have yet to provide a valid argument that’s based on facts. All your points are opinion based, and get trumped by the fact that the economy is working fine.

1) You get gold. Gold is all that matters. People who do other activites on a ragular basis do also get gold, just way less.

2) Next day he has 5 gold, 10 silver to spend, the day after 5 gold 35 silver. Sonner than later he will make more gold than the one getting 50g per day.

3) It’s pretty hard to provide valid facts if you can’t look up how much gold players have made by flipping the traiding post, but you can take it as granted that the ones having multiple thousands of gold didn’t got them through doing ADAP runs.
At last, it’s not about the economy. It’s about how much one can earn through one activity.

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Gw2spidy is the same cup of tea as Gw2LFG was. It was there, it worked well but it wasn’t popular. Also it’s not just about looking for the greatest margin but also for the velocity certain items get sold, as example.

I’m not going to give a lesson on how to efficiently flip items on the TP. If you believe that gw2spidy is all that you need then prove it.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

For the solo run: You’ll probably would do Arah since it’s the most common dungeon for sellers. A normal seller does need 40min. to 80min. to finish a run and another 20min. maximum to fill up the party. He usually get 5-20g, based on the path he was selling.

And that is efficient to you?

I’ve never said gw2spidy is the only thing you need to be effective. It does however help, since you don’t have to gather and look up the price tendencies yourself.
And yes, soloing a dungeon and sell it afterwards is the most effective way in PvE to make gold. Also, I did correct myself: 5-20g per player, ergo 4* 5-20g.

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Yes, but as I’ve said several times, traiding post flipping can offer the greatest revenue and the players who have 10k+ gold, didn’t got their gold through dungeon running.
I can do 20g per day running 6 different dungeons and I do need several hours to complete them. Don’t tell me you get less gold if you spend several hours traiding.

You act as though there are these items with large profit margins that can constantly be sold to quickly make gold.

You act like those guys with 10k+ gold were always there or magically poofed out of the air.

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

pdavis.8031:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

pdavis.8031:

Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.

Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?

Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..

But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.

Making money does not revolve around flipping though. There are plenty of other ways. People make plenty of gold doing dungeon tours and other things.

Yes, but as I’ve said several times, traiding post flipping can offer the greatest revenue and the players who have 10k+ gold, didn’t got their gold through dungeon running.
I can do 20g per day running 6 different dungeons and I do need several hours to complete them. Don’t tell me you get less gold if you spend several hours traiding.