Guild Wars 2

The discovery itself should give identical crafting xp for all recipes of the same required level. Every exotic craft requres level 400, so they all give the same discovery xp. Discovery xp is not affected by critical-crafting-success.

In addition to the crafting xp, you will also get item-creation crafting xp. That has a chance to grant a +50% bonus to xp.

Additionally, item-creation xp drops off as your crafting level gets higher. A craft performed at level 490 will give less xp than one performed at level 410.

As I see it, the reason for score runaway is straightforward: Losing in WvW is not fun.

It’s not fun to die repeatedly because your side is outnumbered.

It’s not fun to repeatedly stage doomed defenses of structures.

It’s not fun to build siege in structures, upgrade them, and secure supply to them when the enemy server can easily wipe it all out again.

It’s not fun to try to take the offense against the winning server when their entire force can quickly use waypoint to intercept you.

I love WvW. I play it more than any other mode of GW2 and more than every other videogame that I play.

Defense in WvW is not rewarding. Structure Defense events reward much less WXP, Karma, and money than their corresponding Structure Capture events.

Defense in WvW is expensive and time consuming. Rebuilding a waypoint costs a a fair bit of coin, time, and a whole lot of supply. Building siege costs a fair bit of time and supply. Tagging siege costs a fair bit of time.

It is hard for the underdog server in a matchup to hold even one keep for any length of time. Holding on to a keep in those circumstances requires that somebody is present in it 24 hours per day, tagging siege every single hour and monitoring all approaches to it. In exchange for that large amount of work, they’ll get essentially 0 reward.

Daulnay.4971:

arabeth.2361:

The answer to “can I make money crafting with X skill” is no.

More specifically: it’s possible, but it requires so much time and effort playing the trading post that most will recommend simply farming as it is much easier and likely more profitable (and there is no risk, as opposed to playing the TP).

It requires effort, judgement, patience, and speed. You can, if you are skilled, make money reliably. As much money as grinding in Orr? Probably not. But good money if you are not level 80 yet. Think of it as a kind of economic PvP, and you’ll have a good sense of what it takes to make money.

Agreed. The thing is that nobody on a forum can or should tell you how to make money in crafting. If I’m making 5g/day crafting Level 42 Chocolate Chip cookies (for a made-up example), then I’m not going to tell you about it so you can compete with me.

We all buy some/all materials from the same trading post and we all sell to the same trading post. A profitable & high-volume crafting business can be wrecked by the addition of one or two determined competitors.

Treplos.5182:

Thanks for the data. I took it at its face value as valid and inserted it into my sheet. You can check the RESULTS sheet for more info. I will provide some of my own data today to verify. Sadly, my resources are limited so I will only be able to provide a few samples with a crude sk.

On the other hand, the question I asked earlier is at the heart of your claim that: “Rarer mats refers to the chance of getting Tier+1 common materials from salvage vs . Tier+0. I.e. a Level 80 Acolyte Coat can give Silk Scrap or Gossamer Scrap, and Gossamer Scrap is the rarer material.”

I am not talking about profitability but the actual definition of “rarer mats”. Salving a bunch of Acolyte Coat with a Master SK should give you 25% chance to get Gossamer according to your theory. I’ve only got 1 Gossamer Scrap in my data (albeit the data is skewed as it contain weapons and armors, not all of which is cloth) .

But what my data actually shows is that in 188 salvages with high grade salvage kits (25%-50% chance for rarer mats), I’ve received less than 1% of T6 mats, which according to your theory, should be the “rarer mats”. So something is really wrong here in your theory; which takes me back to my other thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/ANET-DEVs-can-you-plz-answer-a-question/first#post714432.

A couple of replies here.

First, it was my claim that what’s documented as “Rarer” mats refers to Tier+1, not xExitium’s.

Second, your T6-mat data looks incompletely-coded to me. The first 76 salvages only have 4 T6 mat-salvages recorded. The following ones (Item# 77-188) have 24 salvages coded as getting T6 mats. I chose 76/77 as the cutoff, because that’s the point where Item Type data first appears.

The “Chance of Rarer Materials” value documented on salvage kits does appear to be wrong/misleading.

If you break down the 77-188 data by salvage-kit-used, the BLSK gave T6 mats 13/62 times, the Master 8/30, and the Mystic 4/20. Those percentages don’t look significantly different.

Items 207-224 (type-coded Crude SK) has 3 cases of Ori Ore out of 18 trials.

It seems more likely that the “Rarer materials” claim on Salvage Kits is totally-divorced from what the things actually do.

Avatara.1042:

Humposaurus.5764:

Lol fall damage reduction traits are useless aswell xD I rather have a: “remove all conditions when activating mist form trait.”

Fall damage talents are insanely good in WvWvW, great in spvp for their effects, awesome for jumping puzzles, and useful for other PvE stuff. I think you are just completely clueless, to be honest.

It’s also a bit embarrassing that the master of the elements can’t figure out some way to deal with the Air/Earth transition.

;GW2.com Elementalist

Fire, Air, Earth and Water. I can deal death with any of them *

• Specifically, my own death, where Air meets Earth.

Intigo.1653:

Pact Dirk + Corrupted Shard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep9wwWge5VA

(or any other video on my channel from the last month or so)

Here’s a quick pic of Peacemaker: http://i.imgur.com/v0OEw.png

Peacemaker looks really nice when unsheathed, much better than the preview pic.

Grevender.9235:

JonPeters.5630:

RTL is indeed a bug. I’ve got a fix and going to try and push it through today.

Jon

by just replying to our threads you are making us happy!!!! thanks

I’ll second this sentiment.

Orrian daggers do have a dripping water effect (and they’re giant), and you can get the skin super-cheap on the trading post. Even the Blue/Fine quality dagger has the particle effect.

The Peacemaker Dagger seems to have a purple-mist effect, though I only looked at it through preview. The vendor won’t sell stuff to my bookah.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Heimlich.3065:

Tommyknocker.6089:

STILL HAVE TO KILL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING

That’s pretty hardcore. I normally just defeat their characters & cause them some armor repair costs.

Fine, I consent (emphasis was due to poster not getting it), I am not killing the human being, but I am defeating the character being controlled by a human being and as such causes them some discomfort. Either way the character is controlled not created as pixels.

Actually, I do agree with your point in that particular argument. WvW is a PvP format. Obviously it’s not the only PvP format in GW2, since that includes the modes called sPvP and tPvP too.

It’s silly to arbitrarily exclude WvW from the category of PvP. You’re obviously fighting directly against other human-controlled players.

Veldan.4637:

Why does everyone think they are entitled to get the monthly no matter what they play? If you don’t play WvW then the monthly isn’t for you.

I agree with this sentiment too. I don’t have the time or inclination to kitten-around with the new Flavor-of-the-Month, so I won’t be getting the monthly-box-o-crap either.

Tommyknocker.6089:

STILL HAVE TO KILL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING

That’s pretty hardcore. I normally just defeat their characters & cause them some armor repair costs.

xExitium.5198:

Heimlich.3065:

xExitium.5198:

If Ecto are rarer mats. Then crude salvage shouldn’t give you any at all since its 0%.
So I’m sure that Ecto isn’t rarer mats. However, Ecto is a Special mats. This is also stated clearly on official wiki.

Let view it from another point.
If Ecto rarer mats, why don’t we get Fine Mats (Bone, Fang, Claw etc..) off salvaging?

You’re correct. Ecto are not “rarer” mats. Rarer mats refers to the chance of getting Tier+1 common materials from salvage vs . Tier+0. I.e. a Level 80 Acolyte Coat can give Silk Scrap or Gossamer Scrap, and Gossamer Scrap is the rarer material.

It does appear, from this data, that the BLSK has a somewhat-higher rate of Ecto-salvage (something that wasn’t true previously). Mystic/Master kits give ~0.92-0.95E/Salvage, while the BLSK gives ~1.27E/Salvage.

BLSK is expensive enough that an extra 0.35E/S is not enough of an advantage for me. A BLSK costs 300 Gems, which, if you convert Gold->Gems->BLSK is 5.1G for 25 uses (or 20 silver per use).

Dertz.5749:

21 tries

That’s not enough data for anything.

True that BLSK seem to have better rate. Like you say BLSK need gem & convert it into gold, doesn’t that mean u almost double paying per ecto? -.-

Possibly even more than double the cost. A Master’s Savlage Kit charge is around 60 copper (15 silver for 25 uses). I value a BLSK charge at 20 silver, so I’d never use that to get an extra 1/3 of an Ecto. I’ll use those for valuable Runes and Sigils instead.

xExitium.5198:

If Ecto are rarer mats. Then crude salvage shouldn’t give you any at all since its 0%.
So I’m sure that Ecto isn’t rarer mats. However, Ecto is a Special mats. This is also stated clearly on official wiki.

Let view it from another point.
If Ecto rarer mats, why don’t we get Fine Mats (Bone, Fang, Claw etc..) off salvaging?

You’re correct. Ecto are not “rarer” mats. Rarer mats refers to the chance of getting Tier+1 common materials from salvage vs . Tier+0. I.e. a Level 80 Acolyte Coat can give Silk Scrap or Gossamer Scrap, and Gossamer Scrap is the rarer material.

It does appear, from this data, that the BLSK has a somewhat-higher rate of Ecto-salvage (something that wasn’t true previously). Mystic/Master kits give ~0.92-0.95E/Salvage, while the BLSK gives ~1.27E/Salvage.

BLSK is expensive enough that an extra 0.35E/S is not enough of an advantage for me. A BLSK costs 300 Gems, which, if you convert Gold->Gems->BLSK is 5.1G for 25 uses (or 20 silver per use).

Dertz.5749:

21 tries

That’s not enough data for anything.

Ditton.3149:

They need to change the reward idea..people dont seem to want rewards, they want gifts. Let us do the modicum of any kind of playing your game possible and receive the best option available for that small expanse of time.

Bigger numbers are not a reward. Bigger numbers are not content. Bigger numbers are not gameplay.

This is, at best, a lazy way to try to cajole people into playing more or directing them to particular areas.

morrolan.9608:

Has this answer form Mike O’Brien been discussed because I find it kind of remarkable:

“How is introducing [power creep] respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.”

So according to them now horizontal progression is stagnant. Amazing comment given how successful GW1 was over a number of years.

As I said above, bigger number are not a reward.

Bigger numbers are not a challenge.

Bigger numbers are not any meaningful sort of “growth”.

LOCO.1785:

morrolan.9608:

Has this answer form Mike O’Brien been discussed because I find it kind of remarkable:

“How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.”

So according to them now horizontal progression is stagnant. Amazing comment given how successful GW1 was over a number of years.

It boggles the mind doesn’t it.

My first thought when I heard they were keeping the good things that made GW1 great was “awesome, they’re sticking to horizontal progression”.

With all their boasting of being different to every other MMO pre-release, what do we have 3 months later? Another shallow gear orientated grind fest, just like the rest.

GG

It seems that they somehow think they can satisfy both customer bases when they have mutually-exclusive desires. I think they’ve created a sort of a hybrid that will satisfy neither. The gear treadmill won’t be fast enough to satisfy the gear-grinders, while any gear treadmill is more than I want to put up with.

And over-emphasizing how you don’t technically need pink gear or the infusion-of-the-month hardly helps them. I don’t need cash shop items either, nor do I need to recommend GW2 to my friends, or play GW2 at all (or any other game, for that matter). It’s a dead-end argument.

I wanted to have a couple of sets of max-stat gear on a couple of characters without spending overly much time on it (and without spending any time keeping my 4th set of gear up to date). I thought I had that for a couple of months.

Shootsfoot.9276:

KeikoTerada.1963:

Shootsfoot.9276:

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.

GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.

You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.

Wow, you may want to switch to decaf.

Nowhere did I sit here and say I demand end game. I said calling an elephant a deer doesn’t make it a deer.

The most obvious possible interpretation of “the whole game is endgame” is this: Level-80 activities are not fundamentally different from activities at level 1-79. It’s doing dynamic events, exploring, WvW, dungeons throughout.

Astralporing.1957:

So when people say “what do I do now that I have reached lvl 80”, I say “what do you want to do?”

The answer to the question apparently has been too hard for the community, and so now Anet deigned to supply it for us. It is now “get ascended eq. Then get more ascended eq, as they’ll be introduced. Then get level 90. Then repeat getting eq.”

Don’t forget grinding happy-fun-timing for newer & better infusions too!

Apathy.6430:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Explain to me how “getting to 80” is “95% of the game.”

There was one level 80 zone.

It gives the impression that everything is a precursor to that level 80 zone.

In reality, it should give the opposite impression.

Power creep always starts small. This change is a victory for the people who spent months crying about about wanting MOARLOOT and a defeat for those of us who enjoyed the game that we have/had.

Bigger numbers are fake gameplay, fake content, and fake reward. On the other hand, they’re incredibly cheap to produce.

Gilosean.3805:

I think the AMA was a genuine recognition on their part that they’d made mistakes (and that Chris personally had made a bad call – that’s why he got stuck with the AMA I bet). And a genuine attempt to communicate where they see the game going and engage with fans. I don’t think it was a bait and switch. Everyone makes mistakes. Owning up to a mistake is a lot rarer, and doing that for hours in a Reddit AMA takes guts. Just the fact that ANet is obviously working on making things better makes me more willing to invest and pay for their stuff.

GW2 isn’t the best, but it’s good, and they’re trying. I can’t ask for more than that, because I can’t give more than that. I’m willing to keep playing and see what happens.

I watched the reddit thread unfold and have a different impression from you. If you read the transcript from bottom to top (it’s in reverse-chronological order), he tried to address only positive comments at first until it became glaringly obvious that he didn’t want to touch the wall-of-questions-that-people-actually-care-about.

nachtnebel.9168:

plasmacutter.2709:

Well, you should be happy then, because if you read the AMA, you would see the following:

Chris Whiteside

nacho

With regard to minimal Grind, how is going from 5 Ectos to 50 Ectos for a piece of gear minimal? 5 T6 items to 250 T6 items, minimal?

Good point Nacho. We are currently discussing these particular items and it is fair to say that we don’t want have such big hikes in requirements moving forward.
Chris

I’m almost happy, I would be happy if he had said how much they will reduce the costs for the back pieces (in my book it should go down to 10 ectos and 25 or 35 t6 mats).

I expect 49 ecto & 249 T6 mats.

etiolate.9185:

VP actually offers no new experiences and changes nothing.

So it’s not just a casual audience, but an older, wiser audience that still plays heavily.

This is the simple formula for game livelihood: New content + New ways of tackling content.

Not bigger numbers or minor rewards. Even the reward system, which Ascended targets, has more problems with too much RNG rather than lack of rewards. to obtain.

Thank you for putting it this way, that’s exactly right.

Going from 2500 power to 2800 isn’t new gameplay or a reward. It doesn’t interest me, especially not if that’s going to take 100 hours or more to get.

I’d much rather be able to use those 100 hours to get 4 new max-stat item sets or level alts or work out new builds, or collect new weapon/armor skins.

Power-creep interferes with all of those goals in a couple of ways. First, it puts max-stat gear a much further out of reach, second, it introduces an opportunity cost to any non-max-gear-grinding that I would prefer to do.

nachtnebel.9168:

Heimlich.3065:

They’ve insisted that we interpret their statements in the least charitable possible way. Remember that we’re the ones who kittened-up when we read their manifesto. We’re the ones who misunderstood when they said it’s a game that “respects our time”.

That’s one way to put it, the other is that they made us belief the game would be, at least in some way, like GW1. They misled us on purpose.

I’m taking what both Mr. O’Brien and Mr. Whiteside said very literally. They did not say that Ascended crap should be available in much less time. They did say it should be available through other avenues.

Chris also said their is currently too much grind involved. And since grind equals time sink there is a chance that ascended gear will become less time consuming to get. But even if that’s right, I doubt that they will reduce the grind enough to make ascended gear reachable for casuals.

He doesn’t use the same definition of grind that you do. It’s not clear that they what the intend the time-cost on max-stat crap to be. It’s far from clear that it’ll be what normal people consider “reasonable” when applied over a full set of stuff.

EgonVenkman.1907:

Ditton.3149:

Heimlich.3065:

Ditton.3149:

stof.9341:

Heimlich.3065:

My objection is that they’re raising the time to acquire max-stat gear by a fair bit. Exotic-stats require 1-2 hours of playtime per-slot to get. That time cost makes it reasonable to keep a few sets of max-stat equipment for multiple characters and/or multiple play types (glass cannon vs. survival vs. support).

From what they’ve released, they apparently intend Ascended-tier junk (the new max-stat gear) to take much longer. Probably closer to 10-20 hours per piece. That’s more time than I want to put into max-stat gear.

That does not respect my time as a player.

This is the best explanation for my problem with the current state of the game I’ve ever seen

except they acknowledged this already and said they want to work to remedy exactly that situation.

They did not say that. They said that they would consider lowering costs (from the current 20-80g for max-stat backpack) or make Ascended crap available through other avenues. They did not ever say they intended to make top-stat gear available in much less time.

The guy said they were aware things were taking alot of material to make and that they wanted to look into making it less grindy, to me that says less materials, less farming and less time. If that doesnt mean the same thing to you, then thats cool I understand.

Good for you… still having faith. It is also possible you completely misunderstood what they were trying to say. Just as a lot of us did with their manifesto and pre-launch hype/promise.

They’ve insisted that we interpret their statements in the least charitable possible way. Remember that we’re the ones who kittened-up when we read their manifesto. We’re the ones who misunderstood when they said it’s a game that “respects our time”.

I’m taking what both Mr. O’Brien and Mr. Whiteside said very literally. They did not say that Ascended crap should be available in much less time. They did say it should be available through other avenues.

Ditton.3149:

stof.9341:

Heimlich.3065:

My objection is that they’re raising the time to acquire max-stat gear by a fair bit. Exotic-stats require 1-2 hours of playtime per-slot to get. That time cost makes it reasonable to keep a few sets of max-stat equipment for multiple characters and/or multiple play types (glass cannon vs. survival vs. support).

From what they’ve released, they apparently intend Ascended-tier junk (the new max-stat gear) to take much longer. Probably closer to 10-20 hours per piece. That’s more time than I want to put into max-stat gear.

That does not respect my time as a player.

This is the best explanation for my problem with the current state of the game I’ve ever seen

except they acknowledged this already and said they want to work to remedy exactly that situation.

They did not say that. They said that they would consider lowering costs (from the current 20-80g for max-stat backpack) or make Ascended crap available through other avenues. They did not ever say they intended to make top-stat gear available in much less time.

Edited to add: The time-to-acquire the Berzerker’s-stat (250 Powerful Blood + 50 ecto) backpack is currently far over 10-20 hours of typical play time. They said that they’re re-consider the costs on those but haven’t specified how long they think it should take us to get a piece of max-stat gear. My guess is that they think each piece of gear should require 10-20 hours of play time. I would like it if ANet made a clear statement on that subject.

If I’m going to have to spend 10hours * 2 characters * 2 sets each * 13 items = 520 hours just getting my gear up to Ascended quality, then I’ll find something else to do. For Kitten’s sake, I’d rather just buy it from the cash shop, if there’s still an interesting and relevant game left after that.

Romeo.4378:

Are the answers in the AMA enough for you? Can you bring yourself to believe what they say again?

I believe what they say. They say that power creep is here to stay. They say we should have read their statements more carefully and not given them a charitable interpretation.

Rin.1046:

As to the whole treadmill thing, I feel this is really a perspective thing. A treadmill is not a bad thing if you are having fun while you run. When people say treadmill it is usually inferring that the content is not fun and feels like a grind. As they will be adding more ways to gain gear, you will be able to do the things you enjoy the most in order to get the gear you want. If you only like WvW, then you will be able to get your Ascended gear in WvW. So if you are having fun while your run, it’s not really a grind is it?

My objection is that they’re raising the time to acquire max-stat gear by a fair bit. Exotic-stats require 1-2 hours of playtime per-slot to get. That time cost makes it reasonable to keep a few sets of max-stat equipment for multiple characters and/or multiple play types (glass cannon vs. survival vs. support).

From what they’ve released, they apparently intend Ascended-tier junk (the new max-stat gear) to take much longer. Probably closer to 10-20 hours per piece. That’s more time than I want to put into max-stat gear.

That does not respect my time as a player.

The only question I wanted answered is this:

When the current wave of power-creep is done, what’s ANet’s desired acquisition time for each piece of top-statted gear?

From their actions in most recent change, it looks like they expect me to spend around 10-30 hours per piece. Assuming that’s the case, that is unacceptably long for me when each character has 6 trinkets, 6 pieces of armor, and 1-4 weapons and I have several characters and want several specs for each.

rchu.8945:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Our Time is Now – Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4R5Q0ZOTa8

---

So Anet,

explain to me how any of the above is actually true now?

Apparently we’re supposed to take the 1000 hours part very literally. I.e. 1000 hours is his cut-off for grind/not grind. Nine-hundred and ninety-nine hours is fine.

Summary: Power creep is here to stay and will continue to escalate. You have only seen the thin end of the wedge. GW2 is not actually “The MMO that respects your time”.

ViRuE.3612:

Nice post, thanks for the clarification. I wish though that with major balancing patches someone could take 10-15 minutes for each class to outline why changes were made. After balance patches like the last one sometimes I feel like I just took my car in for service and when I go to collect it a feature has been removed or changed. No explanation, except maybe “the designers looked at this model again recently and decided the original wasn’t what they intended”. Thief is a pretty good example of this, thief players generally have no idea what your thinking is behind recent changes.

I just wish somebody (anybody) would take 10 or 15 minutes to test the fixes/changes documented in the patch notes. At present, every player has to do his or her own testing to discover whether or not changes actually are as described in patch notes. When the patch notes and actual changes are in serious conflict, that makes ANet’s development process look sloppy and rushed. I can never tell whether a new change was unintended (i.e. a bug) or horribly documented.

Out of those choices, I’d pick “Empty Slot”. Tornado is incredibly weak; the only reason to buy it is to get Whirlpool which is Elementalist’s best (i.e. only) underwater Elite.

On the other hand, the Druid can’t be worse than Avatar of Melandru, can it?

Now that I look at it, I see that Summon Druid is a 30-point racial skill. I wouldn’t spend 30 skill points that way. I’d prefer to buy 50 Crystals and delete them.

You’re requesting for Elementalist to be made even weaker than it is now. I don’t agree with your suggestion.

Michael.3279:

We are doing no such thing. We are asking that the huge nerf we received to EA be rescinded and adjusted. Nobody on any forums are asking for Elementalist nerfs… we are well-known to be amongst the underpowered professions in this game. Even WITH the old EA we had to do twice the work for less of a result than most classes… the EA nerf just added insult to injury.

Ask for it to be reversed in its entirety.

My position is that it was not overpowered before. It’s a Major Grandmaster trait, in a tree that doesn’t boost attack or defense. Those are supposed to be strong.

It’s foolish to ask for them to make it worse than it was before they’ve made any comment at all.

Ask for developers to show up on this forum every week.

Ask for useful patch notes. The patch notes on Evasive Arcana were terrible.

Also, on this claim: “Nobody on any forums are asking for Elementalist nerfs”

Try this post

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

…
On another note I also think the water dodge roll is inherently overpowered. Cleansing wave is a 40 second cd and evasive arcana allows it to be used every 12 or so seconds. I think it should get the healing ripple treatment and only scale with healing power by 50%.

Perhaps Elementalist isn’t the class for me. I doubt the people in the Warrior and Guardian fora request nerfs for themselves. Truly, this is the class for masochists.

I’ll repeat that I do not want what you proposed and add that it’s just bad negotiations to start with the bare minimum you’d accept before ANet has done anything to respond on this issue.

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

Intigo.1653:

The Churning Earth dodge roll (when it triggers, not like it used to be) should be a Blast Finisher, the rest not.

That way the trait would be fairly well balanced – in its current state it’s near useless and only the Water roll is remotely useful.

It’s quite simple.

I agree.

On another note I also think the water dodge roll is inherently overpowered. Cleansing wave is a 40 second cd and evasive arcana allows it to be used every 12 or so seconds. I think it should get the healing ripple treatment and only scale with healing power by 50%.

I don’t understand why you’d ask for more nerfs in this class forum. Traits are supposed to be useful.

There’s no need to restrict the finisher to Earth Attunement only. I would not be satisfied with the changes Michael has proposed.

The solution is obvious: Put it back the way it was and have somebody do any testing on changes.

ThiBash.5634:

Sekacnap.3984:

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that having a Public Test Realm would stop things like this from happening…

It wouldn’t have. They’re not listening to feedback now, why would that change when they add another server?

Perhaps we can get a “Build Your Own Patch Notes Kit”. Add an area like the PvP Mists prep/test area where we can test out PvE skills and equipment to discover the new bugs and “fixes”.

I did have to spend 3s50c for a respec to verify that Cantrip Mastery still doesn’t work with Mist Form.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

From what I’ve seen so far, ArenaNet tends to be very alert in their response to bugs that were introduced as a result of a patch. So I don’t think there is a reason to panic over this one.

This (along with the Mist Form trait CD not applying in PvE) happens 100% of the time. I (as an ordinary player) managed to demonstrate both bugs within 60 seconds.

It appears that nobody at ANet tested these changes — not the programmer who made them, nor the QA department.

Intigo.1653:

The Churning Earth dodge roll (when it triggers, not like it used to be) should be a Blast Finisher, the rest not.

That way the trait would be fairly well balanced – in its current state it’s near useless and only the Water roll is remotely useful.

It’s quite simple.

I don’t agree. The old behavior (blast finisher on every dodge) wasn’t especially overpowered for PvE and WvW play (sPvP didn’t hold my interest at all, so I’m omitting that). Endurance is an important resource for Elementalist, and that alone limited the rate at which you could use it.

I wouldn’t complain very loud about getting finisher on every spell effect. I think that would be unnecessarily weakened, but it would remain useful.

Arheundel.6451:

Currently ele got few viable builds

And getting fewer with each set of “fixes”.

Arheundel.6451:

yes it’s true but the developers have already said that things gonna change, in the meantime they try with small changes to see how things go and act accordingly.

They said that over a month ago. They made some little improvements and now broke a handful of our remaining builds. It’s not clear whether the changes they actually made were intentional or a kitten-up. They don’t communicate to us as players at all, so there’s no way to tell.

Arheundel.6451:

Now rather then keep complaining, you can make work for you what it’s available now and keep waiting for future changes or keep writing bitter posts on this forum…your choice

In reality, neither is a productive course of action.

PVT exotic armor comes from Dungeon Vendors (AC and HotW, at least), Vigil (Order) Armorer, or WvW tokens (it costs an obscene number of tokens).

It is not craftable and does not drop, so it isn’t available on the TP.

MrQuizzles.6823:

This appears to have been fixed in yesterday’s patch. At the very least, the tooltip reports a 60-second cooldown when you have the Cantrip Mastery trait outside of PvP. I didn’t time it to see how long it actually took.

Turn on the option to display skill cooldowns, enable Cantrip Mastery and activate Mist Form. In PvE areas, the cooldown timer starts at 75 seconds.

This really isn’t that hard.

Chesire.9043:

At least Phoenix still does.

Please don’t tell ANet which skills*/traits* still do work. We should keep those secret, let they “fix” those too.

• I’m using the plural here on the assumption that there’s another working skill and one or more working traits. Call me optimistic.

plasmacutter.2709:

As someone creating an ele coming from the perspective of mesmer, thief, and guardian, I think there need to be more survival tools built into elementalist weapon skills.

My experience with ele is that the damage is good, not overpowered, but good, but the kit reeks of a class which was built around higher damage than it actually has.

Immediate candidates: add some invulnerability mechanics to the dagger skills, and make the “rush” skills (burning speed, ride the lightning) function as dodges.

I’m sure ANet can add others. The mesmer weapon skills should be a good template to work from. Almost every mesmer weapon has one BASE skill that doubles as survival… the skill will trigger either cripple,knockback,evasion, projectile reflect, dodge, or block. Most elementalist weapon kits don’t do this, and I find it distressing.

Finally, do something about elementalist down state. It is by far the weakest i’ve seen in the game. The mist form doesn’t help because you can’t heal while using it and it doesn’t cause target drop.. everything done in this state feels like an inexhorable march to death even when only one foe is alive.

Adding survival/block/dodge abilities to our basic attacks would really help.

If you think Elementalist downed state is bad now, be thankful you didn’t see it a month ago. Vapor Form used to have a 10+ second delay before you could use it at all. I’m sure you can imagine how often anyone used that.

Toloth.1765:

MarzAttakz.9608:

If they don’t know how we feel yet then they simply don’t care. Historically we’ve been hit with the heaviest nerfs and fewest bug fixes since BWE1.

How about they fix our massive list of bugs with more than “tooltip corrections” or actually test their code changes?

I started out like you OP, positive and well mannered in any posts I made (including the beta forums) requesting some communication or a statement and so far we’ve had amazing feedback amounting to … one comment from a dev mentioning changes to d/d and our downed state.

I guess the next nerf we’ll get may well be cantrips granting regen/vigor. But we still keep on playing our beloved class despite the poor treatment we’ve received.

I think its worth pointing out how I would see this quote if I were a Arena Net. “I want this fixed quick, and I want it tested so it works like intended.” I would guess that testing takes time and if the changes are too rushed…we are right back where we started.

As to your point about communication, I can agree with that. It would be nice to see a few more posts with a little information about how Arena Net feels. With you on that.

It took me, as a player, less than 60 seconds to verify that Cantrip Mastery does not work on Mist Form, that Dragon’s Tooth has no Combo Finisher, and that Arcane Evasion never causes a finisher. In one single minute, I could show all three of these.

Thorough testing can take time and effort, but that’s not the case with the current wave of kitten-ups. If they were edge cases or hard to set up, then I’d cut them a bit more slack, but it looks like they didn’t do any testing at all on these changes.

That, to me, speaks volumes about how they see us (as players) and the entire Elementalist class. It’s not worth wasting one single minute of QA time on our changes and it’s not worth one single forum post to even acknowledge our concerns.

Otaur.9268:

Heimlich.3065:

kostbabis.8791:

pls bring it back

I’m pretty sure that won’t happen. Remember that they removed the blast finisher (completely) from Dragon’s Tooth too.

Now there are only 2 combo finishers (total) outside of Earth Attunement and utility slots (Comet and Phoenix are the remaining two).

If I was a betting man, I’d wager ANet will remove them (without comment, naturally) in an upcoming “fix”.

The blast finisher on Dragons Tooth is not removed, but now focuses on where the Tooth lands, not centered around the caster.

Test it yourself (I did, it takes 20 seconds to do). Despite what the patch notes say, it does not cause any type of finisher at either location.

Similarly, Cantrip Mastery does not work on Mist Form (despite patch notes claiming that it does work).

It doesn’t seem like anybody actually tested these changes, and that’s shameful.

I’m sure they’ll change the tooltips to reflect current behavior (eventually).

I wouldn’t waste a Legendary on an Elementalist, especially not a staff. I wouldn’t bother with a Legendary on anything but Warrior or Guardian.

omgwtflolbbl.7142:

If your community finds something fun to play with, and you leave in there knowingly for months and give them months to build around it, you don’t just say “YOINK SUCKAS” and just remove it completely. You find a way to compromise and build around it, and integrate into the game.

Even an explicit “YOINK SUCKAS” would be more communication than we’ve had in the last month.