Guild Wars 2

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

yup. pretty much

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Meh. I think thieves are really cheap on this map being able to backcap and/or gank even more easily. You can shadowstep outside of most kb range too.

“Oh you DO know how to play outside points and avoid unnecessary fights, to instead back-cap points for the sake of a team victory? Meh doesn’t matter thieves are cheap.” <—- that is kind of a kittenty way to leave things, mate.

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

Most bunkers should already be running CC. and bunkers have alot of access to stability and stun breaks. Not only that, but why is being built to kill players considered skilled? the point of the competitive play is to win. This map is all about positioning. If you are positioning well you will come out on top no matter what, it all comes down to not being familiar with the map yet.

Because knockback + fear are incredibly spammable and it doesn’t take a lot of skill to use them. Killing a talented player or bunkering a point against a good player is pretty kitten hard. Using a knockback/fear rotation rotation until someone reaches a ledge or immobilizing them on a glass platform is pretty easy, especially when you consider the ration of CC to stunbreak/condition removal.

Positioning isn’t “Hard” on this map either: You’re forced to either stand next to a wall and eat damage on tiny, cramped points until you blow up, or get CC’d off edges. That doesn’t take a lot of skill, to make that decision. It’s not fun, and it’s not competitive. Players asked for big, open cap points like Foefire so that team fights and skilled team-oriented play could develeop. Instead we got Cheese Wars where the team with the most knockbacks wins.

Give me an example of any class (Besides mace/shield warrior) that has reliable “spammable” CC rotations please. Most are knockdowns or stuns which will never throw you off an edge. Access to actual launches and RELIABLE fears is pretty limited and on long CD.

To elaborate: If you cannot watch for the super telegraphed animations of launches, you deserve to go over the ledge. Banish is easily avoidable, Necro marks can be evaded, and their wall is kindergarten levels of easy to avoid. Plus the one magic boon called stability that denies it all even if you were clumsy enough to get caught in it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Skyhammer-How-to-Hammer-Room-with-Warrior-CC
^ Cheese warrior with 5 knockbacks (elite skill KB has a 6s recharge), and 4 immobilize

Guardian hammer bunker + shield
Fear-lock necro spec (6.5s of chain fear)
Bomb + toolkit spec engi (potential knockback rotation of one every 4s)

Seems you’re completely out of touch with current CC capabilities

Guardian only has 1 reliable launch capable of throwing you off the edge imo. and it is easy to avoid. the shield of absorbtion is too short range. as for necro, you can avoid alot of their fears, which i ALREADY said. if you take the full necro fear duration you might want to take a look at your own gameplay. I agree, Warriors are strong here. and for an engi to KB you off the edge you would have to be playing pretty kitten close to it.

Lol so much hostility…. i don’t know what to tell you. i do consistently well on this map. At max I fall to my death once or twice a round. usually i don’t at all, even as a thief with zero access to stability. Sorry if you had a bad time but from my experience this map plays really well. the ONLY exception being the cannon. it could definitely be toned down a bit.

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

You don’t have to rely on cannon to win. honestly. it can only focus 1 point and 75% of the time it is focusing B.

I like your thinking.

‘Just let them have mid guys, take far. Rambostyle!’

Oh, except that 75% of the time it is focusing where you’re pressuring if you’re not vsing semiconscious droolers, and it takes 22 seconds to run to far from your spawn with swiftness, and 6 from theirs. I guess cannon is pretty bad if you’re a semiconscious drooler though.

‘Wait, it turns?!?’

You have a team of 5 for a reason.

Mammoth.1975:

Julius.1094:

Mammoth.1975:

Julius.1094:

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

I won a few actually because they constantly had 2-3 players guarding and firing cannon all game which made it very easy for me and the other roamer to keep control of outside nodes.

Numbers, not feelings.

Numbers from one player in regards to a “few matches” might as well be feelings given how unlikely they are to represent overall trends. The cannon can only fire at one spot at the time, and I’ve found that if i start moving right away and use a dodge, i got out of the area most of the time. If they’re heavily invested in holding cannon just spread out and ninja cap them using your greater on ground numbers and move out of the cannon. But yeah it’s a big advantage, so if the other team has it fight over it? I don’t see the problem.

The problem, for those too slow to pick it up last time I mentioned it, is that ‘stack stability and hug that kittening door harder’ is not tactical genius.

As far as numbers from one player, they’re better than numbers from none. I’ve seen the team who dominated at cannon lose once so far. I can’t imagine why that would be, the cannon is pretty bad right? 6s recharge on an unblockable undodgable 2s knockdown that does 10k damage and has a radius twice the size of a control point.

That’s cute how you only quoted half my post and left out the half where I said the claim counter knockbacks is just “hug that kittening door harder” is a very silly oversimplification of what is skillful positioning. I’m sorry someone outplayed you and knocked you out of the map a few times and hurt your feelings.

On and the cannon can’t be dodged because there is a ground animation for where it will hit and you can run out of it, if you can see that animation AND can dodge it on the spot good players will almost never get hit by it. I know I wouldn’t. Then why bother having it? It won’t be used.

Ugh, you haven’t read anything. You leave the door, you will die. Once again, for the very, very slow.

Start casting knock. Change direction for half a second. GG. You can’t dodge them all.

I just run trollspec on there with reaper’s protection and 100% fear duration. There is nowhere in the room that you can knock me from without being feared off the edge or through the floor unless you’re jammed up against that door. Stunbreak, man cannon. GG pro skillz map.

Positioning is super important guys, it’s all about positioning!

You don’t have to rely on cannon to win. honestly. it can only focus 1 point and 75% of the time it is focusing B.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Heizero.9183:

As for numbers i played 6 matches and won 4. 3 of those matches were without cannon control. the other win admittedly we had total cannon control.

Guess they didn’t have a bunker and/or you guys did a good job keeping the guy at canon person busy.

we actually ran 2 bunkers, and had 1 constantly harassing cannon keeping them locked there for the majority of the match duration while the other bunker and our necro fought on point B. meanwhile me and the ele held our outside nodes. it worked out well overall

Julius.1094:

Mammoth.1975:

Julius.1094:

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

I won a few actually because they constantly had 2-3 players guarding and firing cannon all game which made it very easy for me and the other roamer to keep control of outside nodes.

Numbers, not feelings.

Numbers from one player in regards to a “few matches” might as well be feelings given how unlikely they are to represent overall trends. The cannon can only fire at one spot at the time, and I’ve found that if i start moving right away and use a dodge, i got out of the area most of the time. If they’re heavily invested in holding cannon just spread out and ninja cap them using your greater on ground numbers and move out of the cannon. But yeah it’s a big advantage, so if the other team has it fight over it? I don’t see the problem.

The problem, for those too slow to pick it up last time I mentioned it, is that ‘stack stability and hug that kittening door harder’ is not tactical genius.

As far as numbers from one player, they’re better than numbers from none. I’ve seen the team who dominated at cannon lose once so far. I can’t imagine why that would be, the cannon is pretty bad right? 6s recharge on an unblockable undodgable 2s knockdown that does 10k damage and has a radius twice the size of a control point.

That’s cute how you only quoted half my post and left out the half where I said the claim counter knockbacks is just “hug that kittening door harder” is a very silly oversimplification of what is skillful positioning. I’m sorry someone outplayed you and knocked you out of the map a few times and hurt your feelings.

On and the cannon can’t be dodged because there is a ground animation for where it will hit and you can run out of it, if you can see that animation AND can dodge it on the spot good players will almost never get hit by it. I know I wouldn’t. Then why bother having it? It won’t be used.

I suggested for the reason that dodging it will cost you precious endurance. dodging in a timely manner on this map especially can mean the difference between life and death. Dodging it will give you the choice to waste endurance on the cannon and possibly making you vulnerable by a swift guardian hammer to the face shortly after.

As for numbers i played 6 matches and won 4. 3 of those matches were without cannon control. the other win admittedly we had total cannon control.

Julius.1094:

I like the new map for the most part, I think it’s a fun concept. There are a lot of ranged spots to stand on if you’re not a CC class, if you have to drop down it becomes about positioning yourself in relation to the enemy, which just means in relation to them so if you get knocked back it’s not into a hole, it doesn’t mean u have to stand still against a wall in one spot… that’s rather overdramatic.

The cannon is not that hard to avoid and works fine IMO. The map favors knockback more so than other skills, sure, just like teleports are better in khylo than in other maps. But players don’t get those knockbacks for free, if they’re picking up every knockback in the book and get out-positioned/have their knockbacks dodged their lack of other tools will get them killed rather swiftly. The map does lead to a pretty different play style but I like how challenging/different it is.

This^

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

Mammoth.1975:

It doesn’t really have anything to do with positioning. You just stack your team with CC+Stab and ignore positioning.

If you are positioned well, what is the CC going to accomplish? just going to end up sacrificing sustain and damage for nothing.

You can’t avoid them all, the guy with stability can.

Besides, how hard is ‘hug the door like it’s a long lost lover’ anyway? You’re going to die if you’re standing anywhere else in the cannon room, no question.

Start casting knock, switch direction for one moment, boom headshot. Pr0.

The Cannon room is not the whole map. i agree the fights there can turn pretty chaotic. My suggestion is allow the cannon to be evaded/blocked/invuln and you will see alot less of the chaotic cannon fights going on because it won’t be enarly as important after it is toned down. instead of saying the map ins un-playable in competitive tournaments look at ways that it can be.

The cannon room is the whole map actually. If you can’t figure out why, use the data instead. Count your win/loss when you control the cannon, compare to when you don’t.

I won a few actually because they constantly had 2-3 players guarding and firing cannon all game which made it very easy for me and the other roamer to keep control of outside nodes.

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

Mammoth.1975:

It doesn’t really have anything to do with positioning. You just stack your team with CC+Stab and ignore positioning.

If you are positioned well, what is the CC going to accomplish? just going to end up sacrificing sustain and damage for nothing.

You can’t avoid them all, the guy with stability can.

Besides, how hard is ‘hug the door like it’s a long lost lover’ anyway? You’re going to die if you’re standing anywhere else in the cannon room, no question.

Start casting knock, switch direction for one moment, boom headshot. Pr0.

The Cannon room is not the whole map. i agree the fights there can turn pretty chaotic. My suggestion is allow the cannon to be evaded/blocked/invuln and you will see alot less of the chaotic cannon fights going on because it won’t be enarly as important after it is toned down. instead of saying the map ins un-playable in competitive tournaments look at ways that it can be.

Mammoth.1975:

It doesn’t really have anything to do with positioning. You just stack your team with CC+Stab and ignore positioning.

If you are positioned well, what is the CC going to accomplish? just going to end up sacrificing sustain and damage for nothing.

Cero.5132:

Personally I think the map is fun.
I dont mind adapting my playstyle for maps so I´m fine with the cc- and roamer-stuff going on on this map.
It´s huge fun to send people flying who didnt place themself properly.
But I see why people dont like to adapt for it. So much CC can be frustrating because not every class has access to stability or even stunbreakers.

Only big issue I see with this map is the cannon. It should definitely be at least dodgeable or have a smaller aoe or no knockback or less damage.
It´s just wrong that ~3 people have to get the cannon and defend it while the rest caps the points.

I agree. nice to see some constructive feedback for this map. Hopefully Anet will listen and make some minor changes instead of scrapping it.

Oidmetala.8426:

i like the map

only the fights on the cannon are a bit sad, because small area.
dodge able cannon whould be also nice :P

Yeah i think dodging the cannon would really improve the skill cap of this map, as well as alleviate a lot of the frustration that some people seem to be having.

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

Most bunkers should already be running CC. and bunkers have alot of access to stability and stun breaks. Not only that, but why is being built to kill players considered skilled? the point of the competitive play is to win. This map is all about positioning. If you are positioning well you will come out on top no matter what, it all comes down to not being familiar with the map yet.

Because knockback + fear are incredibly spammable and it doesn’t take a lot of skill to use them. Killing a talented player or bunkering a point against a good player is pretty kitten hard. Using a knockback/fear rotation rotation until someone reaches a ledge or immobilizing them on a glass platform is pretty easy, especially when you consider the ration of CC to stunbreak/condition removal.

Positioning isn’t “Hard” on this map either: You’re forced to either stand next to a wall and eat damage on tiny, cramped points until you blow up, or get CC’d off edges. That doesn’t take a lot of skill, to make that decision. It’s not fun, and it’s not competitive. Players asked for big, open cap points like Foefire so that team fights and skilled team-oriented play could develeop. Instead we got Cheese Wars where the team with the most knockbacks wins.

Give me an example of any class (Besides mace/shield warrior) that has reliable “spammable” CC rotations please. Most are knockdowns or stuns which will never throw you off an edge. Access to actual launches and RELIABLE fears is pretty limited and on long CD.

To elaborate: If you cannot watch for the super telegraphed animations of launches, you deserve to go over the ledge. Banish is easily avoidable, Necro marks can be evaded, and their wall is kindergarten levels of easy to avoid. Plus the one magic boon called stability that denies it all even if you were clumsy enough to get caught in it.

Yes. Yes it should.

Errant Venture.9371:

I.e. if you spec for kittentons of CC + fear you will do better than someone who is more talented and runs a build where the goal is to actuall kill another player or bunker the point.

If one person is building for the map in rotation and the other isn’t that would mean that the former really IS the more talented player as far as tactical necessity goes. All talent is not measured in 1v1 prowess.

P.S. I think if anything, they should patch the skyhammer cannon so that it can be evaded. would relieve a ton of griefing.

LOL. Ok you need to make up your mind. Either they were permastealth, or they were killing you. Seeing as attacking reveals them it would be impossible to have both. and with TWENTY other people there they should have been insta nuked right out of reveal. I smell some bull-poo.

Also i would like you to explain to me the perma-stealth mechanic of s/p.

every match i have had since patch has had 3+ necros. The first sign that a class is overpowered is when teams start stacking them, and have no problem winning.

Still debating whether or not i prefer taking this over tripwire….

Ant.3415:

Oh sure I’ll just remove ALL of the conditions they are putting on me while fearing me for 13k. Terror Necro is fine. They needed a big buff but once again Anet went too far.

Stability/ stunbreakers for terror. if you can wipe any of the condis on you youa re fine, honestly. torment does not have a long duration and does not hit tremendously hard. wait it out, just like you would have to do against confusion.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Heizero.9183:

The reason the return doesn’t work is because after activation the trap becomes a “shadowstep” as read in the skill description. Destroying the trap , however counts as a “teleport”.

so to use it as a teleport, we must place the trap in a place where no one will step onto it !!!

the 45 seconds recharge timer only starts counting when we activate the teleport (nobody triggered it) or shadowstep (somone triggered it) is it?

EXACTLY. taht’s how i have been using it. kind of like my own personal mesmer port. I usually rush far node, kill the bunker, cap, drop my shadow trap off node where nobody will hit it, then rush mid to help. once i see the far node contested i pop my trap destruction to instantly teleport back on the node and keep it in our color.

ensoriki.5789:

Condition removal.

We have a winner.

The reason the return doesn’t work is because after activation the trap becomes a “shadowstep” as read in the skill description. Destroying the trap , however counts as a “teleport”.

Heizero.9183:

This happens after every patch. you think it’s a big deal but it isn’t. i promise. in a week you will realize you can do something different, you will build different, it will work, and you will adapt. done.

By the way this comment goes for EVERYONE and EVERY class.

This happens after every patch. you think it’s a big deal but it isn’t. i promise. in a week you will realize you can do something different, you will build different, it will work, and you will adapt. done.

I am also having the same problem with my whispers gear on the legs and boots. the customizable dye options have been limited and there is now a red color that i cannot toggle all over them. here’s another pic of it

Decay is definitely broken. i took a friend on a ride for some tpvp matches one night, got him 7 wins, next day he went solo and got 7 losses, got mad and stopped pvp. that was a month ago. he still happens to have a higher ranking than me even though i have 30x his wins and a better w/l ratio. this system just does not make sense and needs to be looked at.

wanna stop an s/d thief? bring a d/p thief. that is all.

Darek.1836:

Heizero.9183:

And today’s live action score report coming straight from FC Garrison! What started as a 7-man guild roam turned into a BL conquering engine of death =D

If only we had the insanely massive numbers of that magnitude that we could turn our large roaming groups into massive zergs…

We really didn’t have that big of a zerg in your BL today tbh. you guys definitely had just as many in there defending garr while we were at longview, if not more.

P.S. here is a map view

And today’s live action score report coming straight from FC Garrison! What started as a 7-man guild roam turned into a BL conquering engine of death =D

DEVON! YES! thank you i totally feel the same way dude. It is sucha pain in the kitten when you go to cnd and something knocks you into last refuge, basically dooming you.

Anybody on here from that group of 10 that attacked me and my guard buddy in tkitten jp? thought we were pretty screwed 2v10, was pretty much hyperventilating when we were standing there 3 mins later with 10 dead bodies around us. =D

TBrother.9138:

Even the fractal back changed when you ascended it from exotic to ascended. It got things that hung down.

No, the fractal back doesn’t change until you infuse it.

Well my question is if the skin would change if you upgraded it to Ascended (Infused). because that is how the fractal backs work…

Just thought you guys should see how intense our current matchup is in T7. absolutely no room for downtime here!

GoM doesn’t always win WvW, but when we do, we win while performing massive cult rituals for the favor of Zommoros.

MethaneGas.8357:

@Heizero, was it you earlier today by our (DR) spawn?

<—- Mesmer that kept dancing when you went into stealth
you hurt

Yeah that was me lol. your friends were really good at jumping all over my face everytime i revealed T.T

Current score update:

Honestly, Guild Wars Factions is what got me started in the Guild Wars universe. it was by far my favorite campaign with my favorite lore. the continent was deep and profound and had much to explore with little explained compared to how much there aactually was. i think keeping Cantha out of GW2 would be an unfair PUNISHMENT to the player base. This game needs it. The players deserve it. I would definitely buy a new expansion pack to see the Jade Sea again and see how the things have changed for the Kurzicks and Luxons.

also i run 10/30/30 so i have some heavy heal sustain as it is

What do you guys think about using full zerker gear with all beryl orbs/ jewels?