Guild Wars 2

Grimwolf.7163:

They don’t want Thieves Stealthing, don’t want them dodging… WTF?

^ ^^^^^^^^^

That pretty much sums up what i think about all of this.

Where is the justification of nerfing this trait? i could understand the others, (Besides the vigor nerfs, those are dumb too.) but after saying you want to reward Thieves that are actively engaged in a fight, why would you nerf a trait that specifically does just that???

-Opportunist has always been a trait that gives great incentive to stick it out and keep in melee range to try and refresh some lost initiative. Now with kitten ICD it will turn into more of a back and forth waiting game from the thieves perspective; popping in to deal damage and get the crit, and getting out to wait for the next burst in 4-5 secs instead of constantly staying int eh fight assaulting your target.

I really feel this is harmful to the whole playstyle in all game modes and it completely goes against what you are trying to rework the class into. Like i already stated this isa trait that gives reward to any Thief sticking it out in a fight instead of running to come back at a more opportunistic time.

Now i can go off about the rest of the unecessary nerfs as well but I’ll leave it at this, since this really is the most absurd one of them all imo.

Discuss.

I have seen this as well. usually happens to me after they have downed. They just poof, like they went stealth, but i know they didn’t, or they logged out. But wouldn’t logging out give me the xp reward as well?

I just started noticing it about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

swinsk.6410:

Who cares?

Theives are like assassins from daoc. They were awesome and overpowered at the start. Everyone cried. They got nerfed into uselessness for years to come.

My advice, re-roll a different class and save yourself the grief. ANet clearly stated we are to rely on Hard to Catch now as our primary defensive trait, lulz!

Well after 2400 hours on my thief i am not quite willing to make that change. It’s either do or die for me. If my class get put on the bottom shelf, so does my copy of GW2. =/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Proposed-Dec-10th-Changes-Some-Math/first#post3141316 <—- This post pretty much my sentiments for the incoming Thief nerfs. I really ask that a dev take a looka t this post because it really shines light on the core issue of this nerf and the damaging effects it can have on this class.

I am usually not one to worry about balance changes but this one has me very concerned for the future of my class and possibly my overall enjoyment of this game.

I was going to make a post about this but you literally posted my exact thoughts. I really hope anet sees this because i 100% agree opportunist needs to stay. Anet wants thieves to stick it out in a fight yet they want to nerf a trait that rewards that type of play (Opportunist).

Aside from that i agree also on the fact taht it seems they are trying to nerf both of our main defensive capabilities (Damage mitigation through evades, and Stealth) without really giving anything meaningful to compensate. If they don’t want us evading damage, and they don’t want us stealthing to re-position and clear condi then what exactly is it that they want us to do?

I just don’t understand the direction here. They say they want to reward and incentivize Thieves for sticking in a fight instead of leaving and coming back later but theya re directly nerfing opportunist which is one of the traits that allows us to do that. A trait specifically rewarding continuous strikes.

Aside from that they want to nerf our evades by crushing our vigor availability and at the same time nerf our init gain to make stealth more difficult to hold. So they want to nerf our 2 main defensive mechanics without giving us anything to compensate? I just don’t see where they are going with this….

I think theya re nerfing it a bit hard and without much to compensate. And as stated by OP they claim to give a 33% increase which is a LIE considering it is only from .75/sec to 1/sec. Check my post history, i usually am the one saying calm down, Thief is still fine after nerfs. But this time i really believe a mistake has been made.

I used to command alot on Thief, if you are willing to give up some damage in favor ofa bit of survivability it works really well, especially in those fights where you want your zerg to push forward. Alot of momentum comes from commander positioning and if your sees your tag in the heart of the fight they usually crash down on the enemy more effectively to get to your position. Thief is fun to pull this off with because you can hop in behind the enemy frontline during a chaotic battle and drop stealth while issuing commands.

A. Flame legion Charr ahve nothing to do with Aetherblades, they only worked with the Dredge, The Aetherblades have been hinted to be allied with the inquest if anything.

B. no confirmation that the Krait are working with ANYONE.

The dredge were willing to form an alliance with the Charr because while being higly xenophobic they are still a pretty diplomatic race and were convinced by Scarlet to join up with the Flame Legion to accomplish a common goal.

Makes me remember all the crit stikes scythe Assassins back in gw1. hurt like hell.

Irsei.6802:

LOL wow now guardians will be wanted in wvw… for a cheesy ability to make it so the enemy has to kill the the lord twice……

Guards have always been wanted in wvw…

Incurafy.6329:

Heizero.9183:

What am i missing here? S/D is still very viable. Larcenous now just steals 1 boon less. It’s a direct nerf, sure, but it’s not as bad as a nerf as i thought it would get. Be grateful. you still have the decent init costs and the insane damage and mobility. In a week or 2 people will get over it and play it like they always did.

I agree with you that it is still viable, but what “insane damage” ars you talking about? The damage is good but it’s no where near high enough to call insane, lol.

Insane for the amount of repeatable burst on top of the utility it also wields on the same skill press. As far as utility, availability, mobility and sustainability, it’s damage is unmatched by any other skill that can do the same.

Incurafy.6329:

Krayzic.4860:

Hi, I know this might be a little bit off-topic, but is it really worth it to start a thief now? I’m pretty new to this game (lvl 60 warrior in about a week), and i just decided to start a new thief. At the same time as I’m looking for hints and guidelines at the forum, I can’t help but see a lot of negativity towards the new changes to the thief, like people saying they won’t play them until they’re getting buffed again. So yeah, are there still any strong builds for thief? Is it worth it to start a thief now, or should I go for an other profession?

It’s just the regular post-patch QQ, you see it in every forum for a week or so after every patch. The Thief profession is still perfectly viable and, in my opinion, the most enjoyable profession to play.

Roll one, you won’t regret it.

Pretty much what he said. I really only play Thief, and i really only care to play Thief. 2300 hours on mine and still love it.

crouze.3078:

I agree with you on the “stop crying” part.
But not with the “pretty cool changes” you are talking about.
We should talk about what should be changed to help the class without crying

regen on shadow trap wont do much because with 1.5s channeling no one would take it.

Venoms didnt get buffed. Its the venom share range that got buffed… the venoms are still as weak as before.

The “buffs” as you call them dont really change anything big for thief while the nerfs hit right where the thieves where good.

I agree with the 1.5 sec cast time on Shadow Trap, it is the only issue I’m worried about, but I’m going to play with it first since it is one of my main slots for alot of tourny maps. It might be a big nerf, it might not be.

Advent.6193:

What I don’t get is:
How long have Thief players told ANet’s guys that the major weaknesses of P/P set are:

1. Unload’s damage being the highest on the set, thus causing a Gunslinger Thief to blow all their Init on #3 spam.
2. ZERO access to stealth or evasion, thus making P/P the only Thief weapon combo
   to lack any means of in-built damage mitigation.

So, what the kitten is with merely a 1 second Immobilize, then? The set’s major weaknesses still persist.

Black Powder> Lacking any means of built-in damage mitigation

Seriously guys. I try to stay out of the forums after a patch because i know there will be QQ incoming about every little thing, but this time Thief overall got some pretty cool changes.

I understand LS got nerfed a little but S/D is still pretty much just as strong as it was before. S/P might have been indirectly nerfed a bit too but let’s be honest, in a pvp environment it wasn’t exactly a really competative spec anyways. (Here comes all the “omg I’m so pro with S/P!” responses)

Any build that uses blinding powder got buffed. Any build with points into SA got buffed. Shadow trap, while getting a longer cast time on Destroy Shadow Trap now gives regen. P/P #2 got buffed. Venoms got buffed, and they FINALLY FIXED WITHDRAW.

So let’s hear the good things. Thief is not dead (rolls eyes) and I actually feel a tad bit stronger. Personally i play d/p with S/D weapon swap and i am pretty stoked about these changes, specifically the ones to meld in shadows. (Here comes all the “omg you permastealth noob” responses)

So just settle down, take a breath, and play your Thief, because in a week or 2 you are going to sit back and realize it really wasn’t that big a deal. (This goes to pretty much every patch past, present, and possibly future.)

What am i missing here? S/D is still very viable. Larcenous now just steals 1 boon less. It’s a direct nerf, sure, but it’s not as bad as a nerf as i thought it would get. Be grateful. you still have the decent init costs and the insane damage and mobility. In a week or 2 people will get over it and play it like they always did.

Idk, what the problem is. I feel like Thief got buffed. Blinding powder being a blast finisher, and Meld in shadows effecting SR is huuuuuge. Plus they finally fixed Withdraw! I love the changes so far, i really have nothing negative to say other than maybe how the 1.5 sec cast time on shadow trap might affect my play in tournaments.

Other than than that I am still dominating other classes np, besides maybe certain specs of mesmer and war, but that just turns into a stalemate anyways.

Well finally after almost 2 hours of holding vale in SoR BL, it took a combined force of 20+ SBI and 10+ SoR to take it back from only 5 of us. Not that we didn’t score our fair share of kills on the way out either.

Sorry but i just have to post about this. In SoR BL, fighting at vale for about 30 mins now 4v8+ my small group against 8 or more SoR. Not only have we wiped you guys multiple times while you have 3 orbs, but you even have trebs, cannons, and acs built to combat us. This is probably the funniest thing i have ever seen. A decent amount of SoR hugging bay south gate in fear of 4 random roamers. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Meanwhile SBI watches from the cliffside and laughs.

Got some nice hits on a d/d thief that was really predictable in a duel server. beat him this way downing him in stealth at least 3 times because he does the same thing everytime. Spams me after match and accuses me of “Radar hacking”.

I am also wondering what to do against these. Coming from a WvW standpoint i have seen these mes take on groups of 3-4 players and end up in a stalemate because nobody can get a hold of them. I never lose to them but i always end up having to walk away and it is just very annoying to fight. If i am fighting against a mes with friends then they become very dangerous, especially when running perplexity runes. I know this is a pvp thread, but this is the only post i see for these mesmers and theya re really bogging me down. The biggest issue is the upkeep they have on invis and boons. I mean i’m a thief and they stealth more than I do -.-

People will complain about anything.

One important lesson learned this matchup: if JQ “roamers” don’t run away from you in a fair fight, that probably means they have a zerg on the way.

It’s really funny to see T1 servers complaining about population losses and potential coverage gaps after i have been playing on a t7-t8 server since launch. Really are 2 totally different worlds.

SleepingDragon.1596:

I thought there was a custom arena created for the purpose of “GVG”? So what’s wrong with custom arenas? Why can’t “GVG” take place in these privately structured format?

Because at most the custom arenas can host 10v10. Alot of GvG fights are 15v15 and 20v20. plus there is not as much statistical diversity in spvp as there is in wvw because of the way the gear is set up.

That battle at lowlands in BP BL a little while ago was AWESOME. been a while since i have had such an epic open field battle like that in wvw.

mini.6018:

Heizero.9183:

I am really concerned that people in this thread talk about 15-16k BS crits…. i mean seriously. You would have to be naked and traited for 0 defense while fighting a full glass cannon thief that can get 2 shotted himself.

On a squishy target i crit about 6k or 7k on my thief. I don’t usually care about threads like this since i love my Thief. But blatant lies to trash another class is pretty gross.

As a matter of fact it is not bs at all xd.Check the warrior forums for 11.5 k crits backstab on 3400 armor.There are builds allowing huge backstabs especially in wvw.Heck even s/d thieves can do 5-7k.Maybe you are not using a heavy dps focused build.

“BS” is an acronym for Backstab. Idc about the warrior forums. an 11.5k BS is possible, that is not a 16k. And that build ditches all defense, even utility skills making the Thief EXTREMELY vulnerable and more of a suicide bomber than anything. My point is saying thieves have tons of survivability, condi removal, mobility, AND can crit at that level is a lie. period. There are not enough traits in the game to make that possible.

I am really concerned that people in this thread talk about 15-16k BS crits…. i mean seriously. You would have to be naked and traited for 0 defense while fighting a full glass cannon thief that can get 2 shotted himself.

On a squishy target i crit about 6k or 7k on my thief. I don’t usually care about threads like this since i love my Thief. But blatant lies to trash another class is pretty gross.

Crucify.1649:

Hello! I would like to announce that I will be hosting a Fight Club this week on Thursday afternoon. Time, location, rules, and other information will be given earlier on in the day of the event, so stay tuned! Also, make sure your bring team! Team Duels will be open for anyone who is willing!

P.S. You probably know why I didn’t bother capping this point. =[

I’ll see you there, been awhile since we went at it. =D

I am currently online and can send invites, send Unyielding Shadow a tell in-game.

Low pop server reporting in. The buffs stink more than steam cooked kitten. It’s tough enough being outmanned, but at least usually we can have a few fun fights. Now it’s just demoralizing. No fun at all to go out and be at a complete disadvantage not only in numbers, but in individual strength as well.

Pretty hyped to see who these guys go with

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

I’m giving out internet high-fives for each ex-GoM player that gets killed in this matchup.

That’s a lot of high-fives.

My guild is looking to move, well what’s left of it. There will be about 6 of us transferring and we don’t feel like it would be worth it to keep our current guild and build back up with so few (after already having a fully maxed guild). We are mostly NA evening players when we group up and i was using this as an opportunity to find out what guild options were out there for us on SoS. We usually like small team/ havoc squad play but we are adaptable.

Am i correct to assume you guys chose SoS?

Edit: I only ask because i saw an officer from CNB mention it in the SoS recruitment forum.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Heizero.9183:

Yup, this is definitely what i wanted to see in wvw! (I’m GoM btw, y’know the non-existent server in this matchup) At least we managed to grab our bloodlust back from kain, not that it will last very long T.T

Edit: Just lost Bloodlust again.

Wow, haven’t seen Kain pull 660ppt since War Machine and Cryptic Omen ruled the server there. Of course, we pulled 695’s in those days…

Obviously this has nothing to do with the buff. Kaineng was doing this to you guys over the weekend as well. You have a rank 14 server going against a rank 19 and 21. It would be like Blackgate going against Dragonbrand and Maguuma. Kaineng also barely broke 100k last week while Dragonbrand almost hit 400k.

Although this seems like another Orbs of Power (OP) situation, it’s more of a place for sPvPers to hang out other than kitten island.

They didn’t have us capped this badly this week. This is brand new stemming directly from the recent patch.

The issue is that is snowballs the dominant server in the lower tier matchups. Sometimes with the right strategy and coordination we could win underdog fights even outmanned, but now that is starting to become unrealistic and after a day i already see wvw populations dropping on my server because we are getting rolled so hard from an enemy that has +150 to all stats. The incentive to WvW has been demolished as now all people do is look at the coreboard and see that we are completely capped and the enemy ahs all 3 buffs, which most people don’t want to even bother fighting against.

Since you are on a T1 server fighting on mostly even grounds with BG and SoR, you don’t see the Havoc this wreaks on the other tiers… =/

Yup, this is definitely what i wanted to see in wvw! (I’m GoM btw, y’know the non-existent server in this matchup) At least we managed to grab our bloodlust back from kain, not that it will last very long T.T

Edit: Just lost Bloodlust again.

Brew Pinch.5731:

If you wanted perfectly fair fights, you’d be in sPvP.

How often are you fighting with no weapon stacks? Guard stacks? No food or oils? Ascended vs exotics/rares?
I personally have no stats on my back piece because I can’t be bothered spending the time in PvE.
I can still wreck people 1v1 just the same without any of the above and am absolutely loving this change.

150 to all stats is a sliver of your total stats. If you think you are losing fights just because of the buff, go try out sPvP and be rudely awakened to reality.
In GW2, skill/build is vastly superior to stats.

We now have constant, varying scale fights and a plethora of <4 man groups roaming the borderlands, this is the open world PvP MMO players have been asking for, for YEARS.

Open your eyes and enjoy what we now have: The best open world PvP game on the market.

The REAL problem we have now, is the crippling lag… What the kitten is with that?

I do a ton of tPvP. I can tell you i lost a couple of fights today because of enemy having +150 to all stats on top of fortitude buff. Fought a LB/GS warr earlier. Bronze Assaulter. He had bloodlust x3 and 5 stacks of fortitude. I usually deal with them fine since i see so many LB warrs in tournies. i was doing fairly well with him but he just whiddled me away, i couldn’t outlast him when he had such a big statistical advantage over me.

AS a roamer, i gotta say this kitten sucks. Currently fighting Kain and they have all 3 bloodlust buffs. sure roaming is fun, and i can usually pull off some pretty spectacular outnumbered maneuvers, but what am i supposed to do against a group of players with +150 to all stats? Run. That’s all i can manage now. it’s pretty lame.

Jinks.2057:

Please let’s stop w/ the focusing on a dead game mode. We WvWers will never cross the line to become sPvPers so your game can become an Esport. It’s not happening so please realize that WvW >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sPvP because the majority of your player base plays in WvW and not in some lame conquest game mode.

These Orb buffs are just going to be beneficial for the server w/ the most ppl…..please HOLD off on these and introduce the land masses only. You have a successful game in WvW.

Not in sPvP.

Please give us the dev time and let sPvP get life support dev focus for once…..I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Speak for yourself, i play both.

Mrbig.8019:

Heizero.9183:

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

Sigh.

Going into Shadow arts is wasting damage potential. TOO MUCH damage potential, unless you can might stack efficiently with signets ( in that case you lose potential good utilities).

Moreover you lose shortbow mobility ( in your specific build).

There’s a reason why S/D is so strong, or rather:

1. contesting capabilities ( something you won’t be able to do in a stealth build)
2. unmatched mobility
3. good 1vs1 capabilities, even against the strongest meta builds, with wars maybe as an exception.
4. AoE cleave
5. Ability to snowball low hp classes everywhere without letting them escape.
6. Better sustained damage than D/P
7. Very good condi removal without sacrificing too much damage

D/P can’t do this, and altough D/P thieves basically counter wars and other S/D thieves, an S/D thief can overall perform better in almost every situation, unless you’re facing a 5 warrior team.

D/P burst doesn’t deal enough damage anymore, D/P far point assaulter is easily countered by any decent team putting a good AoE proff ( like the longbow war) at close, D/P trickery is a good build but the damage is ridicolously poor when compared to S/D, altough hipsters want to make themselves believe it’s a strong build up to par in the meta.

Think whatever you want, i just hope they buff/change Pistol Whip so i can play S/P and leave the bandwagon, altough i’ve been playing S/D from the start.

I never said S/D wasn’t strong. I said D/P is still also very strong and should not be ruled out. Idc if you think otherwise, i can only speak from my own experience. I use D/P very efficiently with great results, and actually blow up LB/Hammer wars believe it or not. I have tested many builds on my thief. Many. Many builds, and i have settled on a perfect balance between SA/Acro with enough condi to last in this meta. I also do ALOT of burst regardless of what you say and have no problems taking down my targets in a timely manner, ESPECIALLY as a far node harasser/ second objective assaulter.

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

gebrechen.5643:

Heizero.9183:

WvW is the only game mode with a direct counter to stealth in tactically necessary situations, so this whole thread is busted. Stealth traps people. If thieves are ruining your sieges learn to drop them and problem solved. If this is an issue with personal 1v1 battles against thieves though, this is the wrong place, and frankly it is more of a personal L2P issue at that point.

Ok, we do that, while we do a slight change to thieves, nothing what hurts you really.

With next patch thieves need to pay 15 badges of honor, 525 karma and 10 supply every time they want to enter stealth. Shouldn’t be a big thing for you.

You obviously don’t know how stupid stealth traps are to use against thieves, do you?

I actually know all about them. they can work well when implemented properly. I have been kited into my share of them and i can tell you a 30 sec reveal debuff among a group of 5 or more players is death anyway you look at it for a thief. I end up outmanned alot on my server and tend to suicide bomb enemy siege setups while defending towers. i would estimate a good 30% of the time they hit me with a stealth trap and it’s instant game over.

sminkiottone.6972:

Heizero.9183:

sminkiottone.6972:

Heizero.9183:

WvW is the only game mode with a direct counter to stealth in tactically necessary situations, so this whole thread is busted. Stealth traps people. If thieves are ruining your sieges learn to drop them and problem solved. If this is an issue with personal 1v1 battles against thieves though, this is the wrong place, and frankly it is more of a personal L2P issue at that point.

This is from a skilled thief XD.. yes I’m sure, only pro player run thief

When did i say anything like that? do you even read?

Well, you imply that people who loses vs thief need to l2p, am I right ? if not im sorry, I some times have trubles reading english, but again, if I’am right you are just over confident in you skill, I wanna see a video of you stomping a good thief with another class ! maybe a ranger ? i will be your padawan if you do it

I’m not even going to bother with you. That was not what my post was about at all, and this is not the thread nor topic area for that type of discussion regardless, stop derailing the thread you troll.

THERE IS A DIRECT COUNTER IN WVW. STEALTH TRAPS. That is all folks.

So I think after looking into it a bit more we have narrowed down the list to either FA or DB. Appreciate the responses so far.