The unblockable part is actually pretty huge, might end up just being bottlenecked into taking the new staff mastery with the unblockable part. The best thing would probably be to just make greater marks completely baseline and would be nice to make soul marks baseline as well, heh.
To all those who think that the spectral wall is too good to be true, you obviously forgot the “Line of Warding” skill for Guardians… I don’t know why you thought one is OP while the other is normal…
Cause terror fear deals a good chunk of damage while being a CC? Cause you are a necro and will throw other type of damage while they are feared? Cause you’ll be able to throw at least 2 more fears on top of that one?
It’s a very good source of protection and it’s an ethereal combo field?
Mesmers have two teleport-leaps: one on staff, one on sword.
Then we should have a leap finisher on our DS#2, yeah.
I think it does reset, but to the value as if we had Near to Death (since you seem to always get 5 seconds). You know how the skills with different cooldowns arent actually the same thing by script (what was the reason for the whole bugged greater marks/cooldown), maybe it triggers a different ds exit if you get kicked out.
Just tested it out again on the chieftain NPC in the mists. First time I had very little LF and once he kicked me out of it I had 8 second CD on DS. Second time I had more LF, dodged and kited a few attacks and had 4 seconds CD when he knocked me out of DS. So yeah, Softspoken got the correct version.
OH Dagger 4 should be a projectile finisher, OH Dagger 5 should be a blast finisher. Scepter 2 should be a blast finisher. Focus 4 should be a projectile finisher. Deathshroud 4 should be a whirl finisher. Deathshroud 2 should be a leap finisher (when teleporting). Deathshroud 1 should be a 20% projectile finisher. Axe 3 should be a blast finisher.
I am not aware of the other classes but do they have any leap finishers on teleporting abilities? Or are all of the leap finishers actually leaps? I’m asking this since DS#2 is a teleport.
Ahaha oh my gosh. I figured it out, I think.
When you enter Death shroud, it puts F1 on a 10 second recharge. When you leave Death Shroud, it does the same thing again. But if you’re forced out of DS, it won’t reset the recharge to 10 seconds, instead it’ll just be whatever is left of that first 10 second duration. And yeah, the lockout is consistently just whenever you’re forced out of DS.
This means that if you stay in DS for 10 seconds before being forced out, it won’t be on recharge when you leave, you just need to generate the requisite DS first.
How have I never noticed this before.
That does seem to be the case, if you get kicked out from DS, be it by degen or enemy attacks, the CD is not being reset to 10 seconds unlike when you manually press a button to leave DS.
So um
if you’re talking about taking 20 in SR to get Master of Terror, you’re not allowed to bring up Soul Marks as a reason to go into SR. Because it’s also a 20 point trait. So unless you’re now dumping 30 points in SR it’s not an option, and at that point you’re choosing between it and stability on DS.
Granted, Last Gasp is very good, and Path of Midnight is useable. I guess the greater argument is: does Spite have traits that are useful to
a wide variety ofcondition builds?
Wanted to point out that the trait line is pretty much useful in any build and has lots of good stuff, even for condi builds. I actually have 30 in SR for my sPVP build aaaaand I have master of terror for 20 and soul marks for 30. Stability is too mainstream, heh.
I’m kind of surprised to see people discussing this since if the wall and spectral traits remain the same as they are now and then we get this fear condition added to the wall, it would make become an incredibly OP utility. It’s a good team utility already, but the bad thing is that it’s combo field is bugged…. If the combo field bug gets fixed, then spectral wall is going to be a very good source of protection for you and your team as well as nearly the best ethereal field in the game to get aoe chaos armor from.
Those leaked notes seem to be very random and I think and hope that they are fake.
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No one seems upset about dropping 20 into SR for Master of Terror when it’s otherwise useless stats for a condition build, but somehow 30 into Spite is unacceptable. We knew it was a grandmaster trait, so it wasn’t going to go somewhere that was comfortable for everyone.
Burning hurts. You need to work to get it. I don’t see how that’s surprising.
Anyway, we don’t even know if this is the final place for it. It could end up in another line altogether.
SR has a lot of stuff, it’s got master of terror, it’s got soul marks, it’s got path of midnight, it’s got the minor spectral armor, it’s got spectral utility CD reduction, it’s got stability. So it’s not really only about master of terror, seems a lot more people in sPVP would prefer soul marks actually and this trait line also increases the LF pool. Soul marks is very important for a condi build.
Surely it doesn’t boost your condition output but it gives you a lot of other things, mostly survivability ones which is very important. That 15 SR minor trait is huge.
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One shudders to imagine what inhuman code lies behind our class.
Add soul marks into the combo as well.
You should use flesh wurm with well of blood to cleanse condies as well. Imagine how awesome ti would be if you place well of blood on top of the wurm and stand in the way of the wurms projectiles that would cleanse you. Or if you have the wurm in a distance, you place well of blood and catch its projectiles while fighting.
Aw come on don’t put too much hype and attention into this. Just wait a few more days till we see the actual patch lol. There’s lots of things that are missing and were mentioned during the SOTG so yeah.
Lol wait for the patch first. I don’t see much info regarding stunbreakers and healing in DS in that “LEAKED” text. So yeah, just be patient for a few more days.
The description of “This skill will cause nearby enemies to be inflicted with conditions and controlled if they don’t take very quick action.” gives an impression of another long CD ability. A lot of people mentioned that we need something that can be reliably put into a rotation and doesn’t have a long CD, will have to see what the whole picture is going to look like in the end.
Well I think DS#2 is worth using it off cd if you have a situation where you can afford to jump in and out. If you have a premade against you that forcefully tracks you down and focuses you every time you cannot afford to use DS#2 but in this situation you will most likely not be able to do anything pretty much. So far my sPVP games let me use DS#2 quite a bit even in team fights, DS#2 into a geomancy weapon swap into a dodge back or necrotic traversal out if things get bad.
DS#3 in my build is a 1,7-1,85 second terror fear on a 17 second CD and I use it a lot in different situations. I specifically specced into a few things including this DS#3 so not using it is a waste, and the CD isn’t that high. So in the end I use DS abilities including life blast a lot in my rotations. Thing is if you get focused, DS won’t help that much anyways, it is spectral walk or necrotic traversal that help a lot in these situations. Locust swarm and a 4 second wail of doom daze helps in some of these situations as well.
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I’d personally go with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW4YjQal6Va+a07JAJFPH9kisHHSxtSD-TIAgzCmA
Don’t really think that using any of the minions outside of bone, wurm and golem is worth it. If you go clerics with healing then why not take well of blood and solve the condition problem with weapon skills?
You can probably go with axe/focus and take mark of evasion and spiteful talisman with the blood magic trait that makes minions draw conditions as well.
Think it was mentioned in a “Discussion about necro->mentioning that weakness is going to get a rework too” way. Was just a reminder that it affects our class and going to be sort of a boost. In the end the weakness buff is a general change for the whole game even if we might be the class with lots of weakness applications. Don’t think its gonna change anything for all the condimancers, supposedly it will punish crits so all the crit builds are going to have a harder time.
Staying in DS for extended periods is dangerous. Not saying it is inherently OP, but that is one of the ridiculously OP builds that we used to have during Beta.
How is what happened 10 months ago relevant to the current state? Things were most likely drastically different that time. The excuse of “avoiding whack-a-mole approach” is an excuse after all and nothing more at this point.
Could you please specify what you mean when saying “Staying in DS for extended periods is dangerous.”?
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The fact is that the thread was started in the sPVP forums and it was discussing weakness in general so it’s not really aimed specifically at necro. Was kind of a discussion of it only affecting non crit hits which is a very weird design and didn’t really have that much effectiveness in that regard.
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Well you can go that way too yeah, but I just use a condi build with soul marks, master of terror, path of midnight and staff mastery. I was thinking that I want to maximize my on demand fears with traits so I went for max increased duration without traiting into spite and decreased CDs.
To get a good terror all you need is 10 into curses and 20 into soul reaping heh. Runes of necromancer on top and whoala.
Maybe you just have 30 points in spite and that gives you 30% condition duration which makes it a 4 second immobilize? I think it was always 3 without any condi duration bonuses for me.
Noone uses up DS just to cast these (except for stability before stomping). Fury is useless as a condi nec, usually if you are using up DS you are in trouble. Tp proc weakening shroud means that you are in the middle of the fight which isn’t the place a condi nec should be, and even leaving shroud in that sitation is the worst idea.
It’s a very brave thing to do to speak for everyone and say that noone uses it like that… There are other builds besides condi out there. I believe a lot of people actually do use DS to proc that stuff so, again, nothing new. I personally use it to get doom and dark path out in my rotations a lot of times. DS has a lot of offensive usage even now, where you just burn the CD to get something out of it.
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I think one of the biggest issues with the current system of staying power falls into the rewards category. I can ask most anyone in my WvW or PvE guilds and they’ll say the same thing: “Its a lot of fun but I don’t get anything out of it.” Back when we had the bug for the double-laurels reward from the monthly, was when I saw the most people in a long time and the HotM was filled with people.
Fun as it may be, people just need to have something to play for; some shiny to chase after. Adding a gold reward probably wouldn’t hurt but if they want to prevent an inflationary addition (since pvp has no sinks), they could add any number of other things as definite rewards.
People are different. The first thing that is the most important one is to have fun and that in itself is already enough. Regarding the rewards, if people don’t play cause of the lack of rewards then they were not having any fun or were not interested in the game mode in the first place. The majority of people who play it truly like this part of the game and having a sports interest is enough to keep them going. Cosmetic rewards are also pretty much the go to system for a lot of current games anyways.
Again if you don’t play cause of lack of any non cosmetic rewards, then you don’t like sPVP and you most likely not gonna play that mode unless the rewards outshine the one you get in PVE or WWW that you play.
It doesn’t scale at all.
Attrition means that you whittle down your opponents’ health over time until they die. Death shroud was supposed to help with that. However, the longer a fight goes the worse off we actually are because life force is lost very quickly and doesn’t regenerate fast enough.
It’s not really regenerating at all, you generate it by using abilities.
I believe they said cast times on necro CC skills and then mentioned minions specifically.
Also if we want to use the new condi, we have to go to DS, cast it, and leave ds to continue applying dots. This means we can’t enter out defensive mechanic in the next 10 secs. Can be an intresting new mechanic to deal with but only if DS 5 is worth the risk.
It’s very strange to call it a new mechanic…. How is it new when in current practice(depending on the build) you burn your 10 second DS CD to get fury, stability, cast dark path, cast doom, proc the wekening shroud and etc.? How can it be called new?
I like locust swarm and according to the devs, we necros don’t need no boons from the design perspective heh. I currently use warhorn in sPVP with banshees wail and a 15% stun duration sigil for 4 second aoe daze which is really nice. I hear that locust swarm used to siphon health in beta or something, I have no idea how much it was but it would be nice to have some good life siphoning on it. There’s also this thing where locust swarm gives you swiftness and locust signet increases your movement speed and heals you upon the activation. Seeing as how both have the word locust in them would be nice for the swarm to heal us, underwater shrimps heal us and that’s a similar ability.
Well we can suppose that judging by the last SOTG we are going to get better LF generation and possibly life stealing will scale with healing but this won’t solve the core problem which was again described in the post above. Other classes have good access mechanics to COMPLETELY AVOID damage+CC for a short period of time. Our mechanic is limited by the amount of damage we can absorb and it doesn’t block or avoid CC in any way unless you go 30 into soul reaping and even then it’s kind of meh. They mentioned that they do not want to give us more stability access or any vigor since we are supposed to be this unique no boon class, that’s all cool and all if anyone wants to feel special but we will just continue to be this pinball class while others keep having all their good access to invuln mechanics which are evades, invulns, blocks and etc.
Basically necro is a class that’s supposed to eat damage and catches every brick that flies towards him with his teeth. I can somehow live with DS being a damage absorption mechanic but something needs to be done regarding the CC vulnerability, seriously. Other invuln mechanics work as both anti damage and anti CC, ours doesn’t work as anti CC and falls off very quickly in it’s anti damage role too.
Something has been mentioned regarding stunbreakers though, like they are going to have a look on them in general for all classes but we need to see how it works out. I’m not gonna have my hopes too high since I cannot see our current mechanic in this games current environment.
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If deathmatch is implemented and the map is not small enough, then it’s going to be just annoying chases most of the time. In a wide map without objectives(which is deathmatch) half of your utilities will become worthless since there won’t ever be any reason for your enemy to stand in AOE unless it’s a stomp or rez situation. This would also be similar to small squad roaming in WWW. This would show the clear difference between a lot of classes, for example everyone will most likely be able to get away from a necro.
Again with the way the classes work right now a lot of fights would most likely end up being 30 minutes of kiting before you get a kill or the enemy successfully getting away when he wants to, unless you’re a necro.
This would need to be similar to WOW arena where you have small maps to make it fair.
Hey there mooty.
I’m a relatively new player here and I didn’t play GW1. Your post seems to have this usual GW1 nostalgia theme to it but in these cases it’s best to realize that even if the game has the same name, it’s a different game.
Regarding the LOS, I do not see it as an issue since it’s a working system that’s actively used in other games. The problem where you say you have to dedicate your right hand to a lot of mouse movement is a personal problem and can actually make people laugh about it a bit since what people usually do is they keybind all their abilities in the controls options in a way that is comfortable for them(I’ve had around 30-40 keybinds set up on my warlock in WOW and I changed those binds quite a few times, had to come up with macros and bind placements where I could use them with every spec without having to change everything every time).
When you say positioning doesn’t matter that much, that would depend on the classes. I play a necro and even though I have my flesh wurm, positioning is very important for me to not suddenly get focused down. I believe that players from every class think about positioning when they play in an organized game of 2 teams. This is not to say that the game actually does have a few classes that are very forgiving to mistakes and positioning.
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Slow cast times vs bazilion evades is an issue as well. Evading abilities are the biggest offender here.
I fail to understand how people say that inconsistent and clearly bugged behavior is totally fine and knowing the spots where the ports actually work is skill…. This is the first time I encounter something like this.
Saying that I want to buff teleports? I want them to fix the bugged inconsistency, how is that buffing them. Tenderly, fixing these pathing issues won’t change much, people will just be able to teleport to the same places they were able to before without having to master the bugs of this game…. The core of the situation will still be the same, I’m not trying to expand the teleporting possibilities… If I am not mistaken you can teleport up a ledge if you can get there on foot without jumping. A lot of locations that fit this description act inconsistent. The idea of having to learn and master the bugged mechanics and then promoting it as skilled gameplay is just mindblowing.
I would like to ask someone to explain how did people get to a point where a bug is treated this way. I ask you to kindly explain it to me please, seriously I cannot understand this.
I’d rather just keep it on topic and still support the idea that having the teleports work almost anywhere like they do in other games would actually make it worse for the Necromancer and other classes with worse/no teleports, not better.
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
Now that I think about it, class ability distribution is actually another topic as well and needs to be looked at. In the end I cannot quite understand your way but I have a lot of other games with this mechanic working in a reasonable and intuitive way to back me up. A bug is a bug, a broken mechanic is a broken mechanic. In the end this game is one huge mess after all, it’s important to keep that in mind.
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here we go again with the fanbois trying to tell people that game bugs are L2P issues.
Heh, my last post was pretty much about the fanboy problem lol. This situatuion is absurd……
Tenderly, how do you treat this game? When I see a placed teleport similar to flesh wurm I think of other games. Other games all follow an intuitive and reasonable system of these kind of teleports being limited by range but completely ignoring pathing and LOS. That is how it’s supposed to work for me, yet they work in a very weird way. Judging by your responses you don’t mind it at all, heck you’re promoting it.
Is it the case where people want to see the game being this special snowflake so they can think of how special and cool they are that they play it while hating on the other giants out there in the market? Is this the reason for people to promote these clearly bugged mechanics?
Please try to not use the word “intended” in your posts since the devs seem to not know if stuff is intended or not themselves.
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It functioned the same as all the other targetable teleports did. Minus the cast time, it also got you to other places other teleports did not, take keep for instance.
Flesh wurm is a LOS ignoring teleport that can teleport you up cliffs and behind walls. It’s different from your targetable ones.
I am aware of how they function in the game. I am pointing it out as a problem, the pathing problem. Since other classes got to experience it now, that means we can finally bring some attention to it and possibly(I know I might be dreaming here) fix it to make it work like a competent and intuitive pathing system. Both of you are pretty much rejecting this. Is that how you want to keep it? It is very saddening if it is so. Please be ashamed that you are promoting bugs……
Bhawb I get the feeling that you tend to eat and swallow the devs excuses like it’s some kind of your personal favourite dessert and then be happy about it while spreading the word that life is beautiful here….
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There you go with the L2P style, sigh……
I personally do not find it broken to have teleports not work where they weren’t intended to work.
Have you seen the devs reaction on the SOTG when they are asked if something is intended? Is that convincing enough for you? Is the excuse of the lack of fixing on the devs part enough of a reason for the players to accept all those bugs as intended and promote them?
To me, this would create havoc where classes with teleports would outshine classes without them more so than they already do.
So perma evades, perma stealth and perma stunbreakers as well as other stuff in this game is not chaotic enough?
I’m mad cause people don’t see it as a problem and also seem to misunderstand me heh.
I am aware that you need specific angles at keep. I do not understand how people treat these areas with kittened up pathing as if it’s intended when there are clearly proper areas with no such issues. I’d like them do fix the pathing issues while removing weird acting and unintuitive teleports through walls(the Khylo one for example).
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Hello again there Tenderly. We seem to live in different worlds when it comes to an image of a properly working quality game. I am not able to understand your point of view. Those keep cliffs work that way and I am aware that you need a specific angle to make it work, I see it as broken because for example henge terrain that is on the same map doesn’t require these telepathic abilities. I see the keep zone as one with pathing issues.
Then you seem to ignore the problem where sometimes you get teleported to the wall, sometimes you get teleported only a distance of 200 and sometimes you don’t get teleported anywhere at all, that was pretty much what that thread is all about. I cannot see it in any way other than pathing issues….
Please continue enjoying this game full of “intended” bugs the way it is and continue promoting bug exploiting as high skilled gameplay while talking about esports……….
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Well too bad….
According to the competent gentlemen in this thread:
It’s totally intended and we all need crystal balls or telepathic abilities to know which cliffs would let you reliably port onto them using the wurm and which won’t…..
I find this phenomenon in fact quite ABSURD and really absurd like it’s crossed some mark of sanity here from a game design perspective. The low quality of this game creates a situation where high tier players promote bug exploiting as high skill gameplay while talking about ESPORTS……. The situation speaks for itself, for me at least it does…..
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It’s like talking and providing proof to a wall……….
I am using flesh wurm behavior as a >>>>reference<<<< to your new added problem. It is a pathing problem and it messes with a LOT of stuff….. You say other teleports don’t work on that cliff? Well spectral walk does…. You don’t mind spells acting different on similar terrain(flesh wurm teleport works on henge fine and a lot of other cliff like places too while bugging out on other ones) and don’t see it as a bug? What is there to be discussed then?
Again, the problem has always existed but it just wasn’t affecting your precious classes, welcome to the club…..
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I watched only the first two. Just as with Inf arrow, you can’t just place and teleport. There are certain angles where you place the wurm and where you need to be to teleport. Those first two are not correct. I don’t know what else you placed in the video, but when I get home I’ll make a video to show it doesn’t fail when you do it properly.
Do you really see that as a proper working spell then? Flesh wurm necrotic traversal is supposed to be a teleport that ignores LOS since you can teleport up certain terrain and behind walls but has a range limit(judging from the tooltip). If you see no problem in it working on certain terrain and not working on other similar terrain unless you use it form a specific spot or any specific condition then I find that truly baffling. We shall most likely not reach an agreement that way since I sincerely believe this to be a mechanic that doesn’t work properly in a lot of situations and hence it’s bugged, I do not see it being any other way.
Also please be so kind as to watch the whole video, you can see me succeeding in teleporting there and I know of that situation and it only works on one side. Other similar situations show different results some of which don’t even move you an inch.
Here’s a video demonstrating the flesh wurm teleport problem:
http://www.twitch.tv/iceflame1988/c/2418886
This was only an example of the forest map, other maps also have a ton of spots like this.
If you want proof of it being bugged pre patch, you can check the necro forums or search my pre patch streams(highly doubt anyone would do that but if you want proof, it’s there). It’s been like this for a very long time.
To the people who were declining the existence of this problem, please try to refrain yourselves from spreading false information when bugs are discussed since it’s very important to make it clear that something is broken in the game.
I still do not understand how people can use the lack of dev response as an excuse to promote bug exploiting as build diversity, more interesting play for spectators and skill gameplay. Promoting bugs is like defending something OP and displays the sad state of the design that this game has. Pretty much promoting a low quality product.
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Rennoko, I tend to forget the downed state bug since I mostly play sPVP. I’ve been thinking about DS CD too and I do not know what to say about it actually. I’d like to have DS without any CD since I agree that having double CDs on your abilities is kind of meh. But then again it’s kind of like a weapon swap and other profession mechanics tend to have 10 second CDs on them too so I am not sure. Would be nice to see your DS CDs outside of DS but then again other classes don’t see the CDs on other attunements and kits if I am not mistaken.