Guild Wars 2

This is my namesake, Illushia.

If she even admitted that she read this, much less found it dumb/silly/ridiculous, I’d about die of… either happiness or surprise that Devs pay that much attention to their fans.

>_>

<_<

Hey, Ree?

I could use a job? ;D

(The above is a silly joke, don’t smack me with a banhammer plz.)

RAWR.4273:

Illushia.3721:

All the ED lieutenants are powered by the dragons themselves, and are essentially extensions of the dragon themselves. I’m not sure they could even go rogue, and if they did, I imagine the Elder Dragon could just pull the plug. “WHOOPS NO MORE POWER.”

Then explain Glint?

Read the thread. I had already explained(When someone else mentioned Glint) that I forgot about her. Or him? Idk.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

RAWR.4273:

Then explain Glint?

According to the Arah dungeon the Forgotten used a magic spell to free glint from Kralky’s control.

but I don’t think the EDs can just zap power away form their champions.

Usually if you can give someone power you can also take it.

I agree that we don’t know one way or another though.

The thing with racial skills, from what I understand, are to add flavor and be useful in other situations that your normal skills might fall a little short in. They’re not meant to completely replace what skills you normally have.

So if they’re weaker, that falls in line with the design philosophy that ANet seems to have for them.

I don’t think there -is- any lore that deals with the creation of the world, or the Elder Dragons.

And I’m so against this idea because I -don’t- think it has any merit.

Berethos.4526:

Illushia.3721:

That 6th area could just be remnants from when the Inquest were studying the Sylvari. Wanted to keep them in a ‘home-like’ environment or something, maybe?

Which brings up another possibility. The thread was started under the assumption that each area represents an ED. What if they are simply areas designed to hold and study beings of that particular elemental/magical force, and only relate to the Elder Dragons in that the areas of study and the power of a particular ED happen to overlap?

That’s why I feel like rampant speculation with little evidence or guidance is so detrimental rather than expansive. So many erroneous conclusions can be drawn, and people will treat them like they’re the gospel set down by ANet themselves.

Sure, we -can- get some good theories out of it, but often it just explodes into arguments about who is more right or not.

That 6th area could just be remnants from when the Inquest were studying the Sylvari. Wanted to keep them in a ‘home-like’ environment or something, maybe?

well, I meant like the Elder Dragons were corrupted Guardians of Tyria or something in a similar vein of how the Aspects of Warcraft were supposed to guard Azeroth. Not the same, but would probably end up being similar.

Maybe they were corrupted by the same force that creates the Nightmare in the Dream.

Hunter.6950:

Have you guy heard the idea of the Pale Tree being a Champion of another dragon?

We have -two- threads on this already. One in these forums, and one in the Sylvari forums.

Can we contain it to two threads? Please?

The idea is bad enough, it really doesn’t need to spread.

Well, awesome. That sounds interesting.

From what we understand, the Mists War is a conflict created and encouraged by Balthazar between worlds/dimensions/whatever where we fight for his glory, and receive bonuses in our dimension depending on how much or how little the war is going in our favor.

There’s Edge of Destiny and Ghosts of Ascalon, and an announced but as-yet untitled Third Book.

We know for a fact that the Nightmare exists separate from the Nightmare Court.

The Court are it’s champions. They didn’t create it. It already existed as a corruptive facet of the Dream.

He simply created the Court to champion something he had already found.

We only know of one. But if there’s two…

They’re like coocarachas. Where there’s two? There’s 500.

There is something mysterious with the dream, and people splitting from the established norm like the nightmare court, doesn’t do it for mere “I want to be a hero” reasons, something prompted them to do that.

That was actually already covered in detail. One of the secondborn Sylvari became jealous and disillusioned after the death of one of the other Sylvari, and essentially began the Nightmare Court for revenge.

moonslightv.6704:

Illushia.3721:

moonslightv.6704:

HERO.2057:

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

This is a VERY good plot device and I sure wouldn’t have saw this at all. How shocking would this be if say, within a few years after a few expansions that the Pale Tree is revealed as the TRUE big bad guy and we just destroyed all the dragons who were suppose to keep her in check? Very cool theory…

“Let’s completely ruin a race for a plot twist that adds nothing to the story and sounds incredibly contrived.”

The Sylvari would NOT be ruined. They would still be who they are/were but would have been “duped” into believing the Pale Tree was for the greater good. There are ways to work in the Sylvari and Nightmare Court into that plot twist without ruining them you know.

Having the Pale Tree turn out being evil would absolutely gut the Sylvari and everything they stand for. The Ventari Tablet, the Grove, the Dream, their weapons and armor, their home, everything gone.

For what? A cliche plot twist.

I think the idea that the Pale Tree or the Sylvari are Elder Dragon pawns or an Elder Dragon themselves somehow is just silly.

Maybe they’re related. Maybe they’re somehow connected. If they are, I’d rather them be some kind of planetary defense system like the Earthen than “Oh we were the bad guys and now we’re good guys”.

It’d be somewhat interesting(But at the same time cliche) if the dragons were some kind of corrupted guardian or something.

TheKow.7604:

The Inquest would no more on the subject as they gone as far as dissecting them but being hostile there’s not many you can talk to sadly and very little in-game objects to talk to from them.There magical signature tho is similar to the elder dragons and they are resistant to the dragons touch(as far as Zhatian goes)making them the only other being to resist it other then the already undead.(and the stone Dwarfs)

The Inquest would be even more suspect as they have no qualms about doing anything to achieve their ends. Up to and including misleading others to throw them off of their trail.

Just because the magical signature is similar though doesn’t mean they’re dragon spawn. It could just be similar magic involved.

I’d like to see a turtle pet- if it didn’t tank.

Make it a super-fast DPS pet.

I’d lol for days.

“Popeye’s chicken is the shiznit!”

splode

Reevac.1748:

It’s called “lazy” eye. Hit your self on the side of a face with a shovel. Should pop it back into place, or at least make it so you might have 2 lazy eyes.

Or you’ll get an awesome accent.

But we know that Asura often posit a theory as fact before fully testing it.

Maybe they read a magical signature as being similar to an Elder Dragon and all of a sudden “OMG SYLVARI ARE ELDER DRAGON SPAWN”. They don’t really need proof if they believe it’s true. They’ll keep trying to make it true. They jump to conclusions a -lot-.

If a Sylvari straight came out and said they were related to the Elder Dragons, then sure.

But Asura, when we know for a fact that they have been wrong, often, and jump to conclusions, often, and work without proof, often, I’m going to take that with a grain of salt.

TheKow.7604:

The top inquest and asura scientist in-game have proven it also the dream and graveyard are both illogical as there’s other sylvari city’s that have nether also proven in-game by both story and other NPCs.

The Inquest and asura are both highly interest in the sylvari for that reason and have been sence there awaking and even gone as far to prove there magical flow is related to that of a dragons magical energy and thus why the sylvari structure’s later near the end of the current chapter/story have been infused with asura magic and technology with little effort.

I would suggest going through and talking to NPCs across Inquest asure and sylvari zones and late game zones and gathering some of the lore given to us along with reading books/etc in said zones.

It’s a -theory-. There is no proof. Anywhere.

And I was making a silly argument to poke fun at how silly the “Oh, the Sylvari are related to dragons we know this for sure” argument is.

I used Spike over muddy because it does bleed damage(I’m shortbow so I went Condition/Power out the wazoo).

Otherwise yeah. Good post. And stuff.

The Sylvari where made from a Elder Dragon what and how and maybe even when we do not know

Except we don’t know this as fact, and people need to stop presenting it as such.

We could even go so far as to say their being immune to corruption could be because they’re plants. Or that they’re connected to the dream. Or because the Tree grew on top of a graveyard. Or because we’re just awesome like that.

We don’t -know- any of this. There is no proof of any point brought up with them being an Elder Dragon creation or even related to the Dragons in any way.

I use the Spike Trap rather often, because it’s aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawesome for kiting mobs. Between that, shortbow jumpy-fasty thing, crippling shot, and the daze, I can keep people off of me for a very long time. And if absolutely necessary I can Axe/Warhorn for singletarget DoT, bleeds, and a freeze, then swap back for more slowing action.

Edit: But yes, ground-targetting built in would be awesome for using it more often during bosses.

moonslightv.6704:

HERO.2057:

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

This is a VERY good plot device and I sure wouldn’t have saw this at all. How shocking would this be if say, within a few years after a few expansions that the Pale Tree is revealed as the TRUE big bad guy and we just destroyed all the dragons who were suppose to keep her in check? Very cool theory…

“Let’s completely ruin a race for a plot twist that adds nothing to the story and sounds incredibly contrived.”

I was expecting another whine post but I have to agree with a lot of this. Rangers aren’t broken by any means, but that doesn’t mean we couldn’t get a little help in certain areas.

Crossfire applying bleeds from any angle would be removing a gigantic headache with using it as it stands right now.

I liked the Seed Turret if I knew I was going to be in one place for a while, but it was honestly just a distraction most of the time.

I’ve wanted to try out Take Root for a while but I prefer to be more mobile than the skill allows.

Kind of like PvP except the ‘players’ are dumb and often hit harder.

I just feel like this speculation isn’t grounded in anything but someone’s pet theory.

There’s been no proof in any conclusive fashion presented anywhere whatsoever to support this theory. At all.

In science they call it a dead end. In lore it’s called “Making up stuff to talk about”.

We’re really not helping anyone by discussing it. If anything you’re giving people the wrong idea that somehow the Sylvari are connected to the dragons. When they aren’t.

The Pale Tree didn’t suddenly appear when the dragons did. The Tree itself is over 200 years old. The Sylvari grew from pods that were already present on the tree. Maybe the Dream itself is somehow like the Dream of Warcraft lore- it’s some kind of ‘master plan’ of Tyria, with it’s own defensive systems.

Maybe the Sylvari are the Earthen of Tyria, a living defensive weapon.

I just made up a theory out of nothing too. =|

I just see no merit in continuing this discussion unless we get something that actually points at them being Dragon-related.

Right now all we have are “They want to kill the dragons” and “They showed up at mostly the same time” which isn’t really true.

I really don’t think that the Pale Tree is any way connected to any of the Elder Dragons other than wanting to kill them and being immune to their corruption.

Most people are reasonably certain that there’s an underwater/deep sea dragon somewhere.

They don’t have hearts or heartbeats, as stated by one of the Devs, but they do have some sort of heart-like structure in them somewhere, as it’s referenced by a few Sylvari NPCs.

They also don’t have blood pressure. They bleed but it just oozes, doesn’t spurt.

It is my understanding later missions in game, heavily imply dragons are in fact quite intelligent. They are not bestial forces of nature.

I’ve seen conflicting. Because Zhaitan doesn’t seem to have any sort of plan. He hangs out in Orr because there’s magic items all over the place(Orr used magic for EVERYTHING) for him to eat. He sends minions out to do everything, but these minions don’t really seem directly guided by him. They spout “THE WILL OF ZHAITAN” and all, but when you really get down to it, the greatly built up ‘will of Zhaitan’ seems to be… “Go out and kill things with my blessing”.

Not exactly all that devious, is it?

Pets generally can ‘tank’ one mob relatively well. Two or three for a little, but you’re definitely going to have to heal/protect them somehow, but once you get four you’re probably either going to have to micromanage them, get them out of there, or get a new pet.

The only mobs I’ve seen that completely melt a pet are the ones that are going to completely melt -me- too. Usually the Risen Brutes/Abominations that take off half of your HP with one melee swing anyway.

I had completely forgotten about Glint.

And I’m from Louisiana. Shove a hurricane down our throats. We’ll just keep coming back. >>

Well, at least we can see that if a lieutenant DOES go rogue, that Elder Dragon definitely drops a bus or two on them just to be sure.

That would be really interesting.

And imagine if the Nightmare Court found and corrupted a tree. They could rise from “Dangerous annoyance” to ‘world-threatening superpower’ nearly overnight.

It could be something like… their colors fade, they start to feel old, worn down. Maybe they return to the Pale Tree and are taken into a pod, where they ‘molt’ or, shed old skin/bark, and return some time later(Days? Weeks? Months?) refreshed and renewed.

I think it would be interesting that these other “Pale Trees” could act almost like… nations, for Humans. With their own goals, wants, needs.

Maybe they even do have their own version of the “Dream”, but it manifests differently. Maybe the Sylvari from the other Trees are all guided by a giant talking flower. Or maybe they can all speak to dogs.

I’m just being silly, but there are other ways that they could be guided/share information than the Dream like ‘our’ Sylvari do.

In my opinion it’s entirely possible that they might even get ‘old’ and then ‘die’, going to sleep, and then ‘bloom’ again, refreshed and renewed, like perennial trees/flowers do.

I’d love seeing that.

Indoodles. Which is why I believe Sylvari have sap instead of blood. Because, look at almost any plant. Then break that plant in half. What happens? It oozes sap to some degree. Sap isn’t only found in trees.

What role does sap play in a plant? It plays the role of blood in an animal.

And if you drain a plant of it’s sap, it dies. Just like an animal bleeding out.

Sylvari having sap was at both very smart, and in my opinion exceedingly clever, because it managed to set them apart from Humans/Charr/Norn/Asura in yet another way, to make them distinctive, and still gave them weaknesses/ways to die so they don’t appear to be immortal or overpowered in some way.

Just doing a quick look of a few links I found a quote from Ree that speaks about it in some part:

Do sylvari need to eat food?
“They do have a stomach area in their body, it does decompose material just like a humans would and then uses that material to fuel the body.” -Ree Soesbee, Wartower Interview

Yes. Sylvari lack roots or any other way of gaining nutrition except for eating and drinking as other races do. They instead have structures within their bodies that perform the same functions as a human digestive system.

I’m still looking for the pitcher plant bit but I saw it somewhere.

It also just makes sense, because pitcher plants are omnivorous plants and there’s a ready-made solution for them having a stomach.

While I disagree with the idea of having Rangers without pets, if you absolutelyneededtonothaveapetever it’s possible you could have an ability that if you chose to keep your pet right up next to you rather than out doing tanky-pety-stuff, you could gain an extra synergistic ability between the two of you.

Maybe your Wolf bites someone and you smack them upside the face with whatever you happen to be holding at the moment, or something.

Trock Bronze.9625:

Dragon or not one thing is certain, The Sylvari are good because we can play them. So even going with the ED theory there are a variety of explanations as to why they might be good, a rogue lieutenant, corrupted for good, perhaps even an elder dragon that doesn’t want to destroy the world (there are an unknown number, whose to say they all have to be bad?). There is a lot of evidence however that connects them to the dragons. If the elder dragons are meant to represent natural forces in the world, a tsunami for example, you deal with it you can’t stop it and it does not think it just acts, then why can’t there be a force, like in nature, that is there to regrow from the destruction?

rogue lieutenant

All the ED lieutenants are powered by the dragons themselves, and are essentially extensions of the dragon themselves. I’m not sure they could even go rogue, and if they did, I imagine the Elder Dragon could just pull the plug. “WHOOPS NO MORE POWER.”

corrupted for good

Wouldn’t that be purified? Besides, the Sylvari show no signs of any kind of alteration by a dragon, corruption or not. The dragon corruption is distinctive, if nothing else.

perhaps even an elder dragon that doesn’t want to destroy the world (there are an unknown number, whose to say they all have to be bad?)

Except everything we know about Elder Dragons, and everything ANet has ever said about Elder Dragons, points out that they are in fact bent on the destruction and cleansing of anything that isn’t them or their minions, even each other. If left to their own devices they would fight until they’ve eaten everything on the planet, up to and including each other.

There is a lot of evidence however that connects them to the dragons.

Liiiike… what? Go on. I’m listening. Got anything that isn’t speculation?

… no?

Well, let me know if you find anything.

If the elder dragons are meant to represent natural forces in the world, a tsunami for example, you deal with it you can’t stop it and it does not think it just acts, then why can’t there be a force, like in nature, that is there to regrow from the destruction?

Because the Elder Dragons likened to destructive forces of nature. They’re -not- forces of nature. They’re not natural parts of the cycle of life and death.

ANet has never said they’re forces of nature, only that they ACT like them inasmuch as they do not think, they just do, and whenever they -do-, things die.

Also, just to point out, even the idea that “The Pale Tree raised all these Sylvari for some ulterior motive that we don’t know yet” flies in the face of everything we know about Elder Dragons.

They don’t plan. They don’t scheme. They don’t manipulate. They just fly off, destroying everything in their path, and eating everything that they don’t break.

The ONLY time we hear of a dragon scheming at all, is actually a result of the dragon’s powerful minions being told “Go do this” and the minion comes up with their own plan to get the desired result.

None of these plans are the result of Zhaitan’s direct intervention. He gives his minions free reign and THEY plan while he goes off and eats something.

Their stomachs are like pitcher plants. Go look them up. It’s quite interesting.

That’s not a Sylvari though.

Your Dream was warning you about the dragon you would have to fight and kill.

Formis Sage.2638:

Now that you mentioned eating other plants and cannibalism.
For Sylvari to be our equivalent of vegetarian, does s/he have to eat only meat?

Speaking of which, was anywhere mentioned if Sylvari have to eat, or is some water and sunlight enough for them to exist?

No, they do have to eat. It’s been mentioned that sunlight acts sort of like a cup of coffee to them, but they do still need to eat actual food.

… You guys are insane.

Let’s look at this from a gameplay perspective. ANet creates this awesome game. ANet creates this huuuuuuuge theme about cooperation and working together.

“Oh by the way one race are the badguys.”

… Really? That’s just… kind of… dumb.