Guild Wars 2

cranos.5913:

Because you’re actually doing smth, not just waiting around. Defend the system all you like. It promotes afking and keeps WvWers from actually entering wvw.

Well, one would actually finish sooner the more one does. Also — through the wonders of linking I find myself in T1 WvW — and rarely if ever encounter a queue.

If you choose to rail against the idea of being unable to complete a Legendary collection. that’s your right. I’d not be opposed to a complete split of the requirements by play preference. However, there are some considerations.

1. How many dev resources would be required to produce 3 complete, separate tracks, and what would have to be sacrificed to make it happen?
2. Attempts to split requirements by game mode should start with adjustments to modes that are more disadvantaged by the current system. PvE-only preferences would be accommodated last.
3. Any potential loss of benefit to game longevity from removal of requirements would need to be evaluated.
4. ANet should also evaluate how play preferences limit acquisition of other rewards as well.

I would neither value, use nor pay for such a feature. I don’t oppose the idea as long as producing it is trivial. My opposition would grow in proportion to the amount of other features that might be delayed or back-burnered.

Astralporing.1957:

Muchacho.2390:

dodgerrule.8739:

You do still earn them through xp. It’s just not as glamorous as it was because of masteries. You’ll see the spirit shards go into your loot side when you get one.

They explained this before and after heart of thorns launched people.

Sure about this one?

If so the whole tread is pointless.

I’m pretty sure he is mixing it up with getting spirit shards as direct drops from mobs (which do happen on occasions).

It’s possible to earn shards via XP without completing ALL masteries, by completing a Masteries in either Tyria or HoM but not the other, and gaining XP in the completed region. If that’s what was meant, then the post is at best out of touch with the thread. If not, then the post is incorrect.

Gryphon.2875:

VB is fine. We just made T4 this morning

One cannot conclude – and be correct – that VB is fine based on a single T4 experience. One also cannot conclude it’s not fine because of a single failed instance. What would be needed in either case would be a comparison of how often maps succeed versus fail.

Even that does not tell the tale because of the taxi phenomenon. If people from multiple maps stack one map, the stacked map succeeds and the relatively deserted maps all fail, then there will be more failures than successes. The only true indicator would be a comparison between numbers of players who have good experiences v. numbers who have bad ones. I’d guess most of the good experiences go unreported. I’d also guess that most of the bad ones go unreported.

No matter the effect on the economy, the concept of looting event rewards in multiple maps in the same cycle seems both ludicrous and broken. It boggled my mind, until I remembered that ANet is the company that pioneered the most ridiculous MMO gameplay going with daily events in one low-level zone, complete with herds of players spamming AoE where mobs are going to spawn.

Chrury.4627:

you just have to take it and heal through it.

Since one of ANet’s design goals was to make a need for the healing role in raids, it seems that the presence of such damage does just that. Fwiw, I’ve seen bosses in other games’ raids who also did unavoidable raid-wide damage as part of the encounter mechanics.

As usual, a forum discussion gets derailed by arguments over a term. Perhaps, rather than focusing on someone’s use of the term “platformer,” we could instead focus on the fact that getting around in HoT is a great deal more reliant on vertical movement and gimmicks than either the core game, or most of the games in the MMO genre. That choice on ANet’s part was bound to displease some players.

The original GW game taught ANet all they wanted to know, and then some, about unintended synergy. This occurs when players combine character capabilities to produce greater effectiveness than the devs intended. GW2 character mechanics are designed, at least in part, to reduce or eliminate unintended synergy.

This is both bad and good. What’s bad includes limited build options and stifled player creativity. What’s good includes greater ease in game balance and the generation of opportunity costs.

Vayne.8563:

I’m almost 100% positive you think you need more people to complete content in that zone than you do.

Unfortunately, that seems to be a common belief, hence people using taxis to stack (a) (some) map(s), which leaves other maps relatively empty.

Huskyboy.1053:

But it’s inherently imbalanced to give that power only to a very small number of people, that’s the opposite of balance.

8 of the 9 professions have access to launch. If they aren’t choosing to build to use it, well they’re choosing something they value more.

Tekey.7946:

You’re just defending the point that it should stay as it is right now. But you can’t deny that there could be more. More variety. Is there any reason why they shouldn’t change it?

There’s a reason, but you won’t like it. When the game was being developed, one of the stated goals was to limit player options to reduce unintended synergy and make balancing easier.

There always seems to be a catch-22 effect in harder, instanced PvE content in MMO’s. There are only two ways around it: get in n the ground floor; or persevere and get lucky.

Good luck.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But really why is map complete so important otherwise? What do you get for it? Why does it matter?

It’s something to do in a game genre that survives by presenting players with things to do. Some people like exploring for its own sake, and reaching benchmarks provides a sense of satisfaction. Everything does not have to feed into pursuit of cosmetic carrots to be enjoyable.

I’m just curious here, if someone likes exploring maps for the sake of exploring them, then maps with huge complexity will be much better than plain/flat ones no?

I won’t speak for anyone else, but for me enjoyment trumps complexity, and having someone show me or consulting a guide ruins the experience. Perhaps my exploration skills are sub-par, but — especially in VB — I start from point A to get to point B and can’t get there. I try something different, but end up in the same frustrating place. I try a third something with no better result. It seems like there is some secret trick that is either not evident or locked behind some mastery I don’t have.

I get the whole “different strokes” thing. I liked exploration in GW and I know some hated it. The frustrations of GW exploration yielded to a systematic approach, and I’ve yet to find a systematic approach that works in HoT. So for me, HoT’s particular type of complex kittens and is not better.

As I’ve said to a number of people, showing you a few simple tricks would make HoT exploration a lot easier. Like in VB, how to get to the canopy during the day. There are several ways to do it, and I know them all.

Once you learn that, it becomes a lot easier to navigate VB. And yes, I do understand the concept of I want to do everything by myself and learn everything by myself, but that’s not really the way MMOs are designed. They’re designed so that people can (and probably should) help each other.

There’s no value to insisting I can’t do this and I’m not going to accept any help at all, particularly if you can learn something you might be able to pass on to someone else.

I’m always happy to show people some stuff. It doesn’t take long. It just gives you the tools to succeed on their own. Most people I take around VB once know enough to finish everything on their own.

If I still care in a few months when I can use my arm again, I’ll look you up.

In terms of psychology, people very often assume either that everyone knows, or at least should know, what they know. In MMO’s we see this in things like meta-builds, dungeon, PvP and WvW tactics, even content abbreviations. If one is in the know, others should be. This may apply to dueling locations and the etiquette attached to that activity.

As to players being kittens if you’ve either interrupted their fun or dared to walk too close, well, this is also part of human nature. In either case, you’ve displayed you aren’t one of them. That makes you fair game. I say this not to excuse the behavior, but to suggest that it won’t be going away, and avoiding them might be better for your blood pressure.

maddoctor.2738:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But really why is map complete so important otherwise? What do you get for it? Why does it matter?

It’s something to do in a game genre that survives by presenting players with things to do. Some people like exploring for its own sake, and reaching benchmarks provides a sense of satisfaction. Everything does not have to feed into pursuit of cosmetic carrots to be enjoyable.

I’m just curious here, if someone likes exploring maps for the sake of exploring them, then maps with huge complexity will be much better than plain/flat ones no?

I won’t speak for anyone else, but for me enjoyment trumps complexity, and having someone show me or consulting a guide ruins the experience. Perhaps my exploration skills are sub-par, but — especially in VB — I start from point A to get to point B and can’t get there. I try something different, but end up in the same frustrating place. I try a third something with no better result. It seems like there is some secret trick that is either not evident or locked behind some mastery I don’t have.

I get the whole “different strokes” thing. I liked exploration in GW and I know some hated it. The frustrations of GW exploration yielded to a systematic approach, and I’ve yet to find a systematic approach that works in HoT. So for me, HoT’s particular type of complex kittens and is not better.

Vayne.8563:

But really why is map complete so important otherwise? What do you get for it? Why does it matter?

It’s something to do in a game genre that survives by presenting players with things to do. Some people like exploring for its own sake, and reaching benchmarks provides a sense of satisfaction. Everything does not have to feed into pursuit of cosmetic carrots to be enjoyable.

Obtena.7952:

DeWolfe.2174:

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

Even if that is the case … you aren’t locked out of earning spirit shards anyways, so the argument that shards locked behind raid mastery affects progression is nonsense to begin with.

You keep building your straw man. The suggestion was to have a repeatable mastery track that happens to award shards, so that anyone who wanted not to “waste” XP can use that track. What’s locked is the ability to have the XP do something, not access to shards.

I suspect that removing the code which causes damage to armor on defeat would have been a lot harder than just zeroing the cost.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Sounds a bit like those threads players create wanting access to Heritage armor. They don’t want to fulfill the requirements, either.

Not close to the same. A level tick benefit was available to everyone at one point. Heritage Armor was not. It’s one thing to ask for access to exclusive rewards. It’s another to protest against ANet taking something that was once available to everyone and restoring it — but only for completionists.

I wonder if those adopting this position were also unreserved advocates of ANet removing iteration 1 guild benefits and placing similar benefits behind the HoT GH “experience.”

Blackwyn.8127:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Perhaps those players who are reaping the substantial rewards offered by raids are feeling less hard done by than those whose preferences are, by comparison, nowhere near as rewarding.

Yea, about that.. One Tarir 30min multiloot run will yield you more gold than completing all the raid wings.

If I were to imagine something in PvE less interesting than raiding, it would be the multi-loot run.

Story Mode would of necessity offer little reward, thus having little to no replay value and being a waste of dev resources. The effort to make an explorable version of the raid might be better spent on new fractals. Detaching devs from non-raid content to make tiered raids while keeping a reasonable raid release schedule would of necessity negatively impact the production of non-raid content.

I’ve seen this request before. What I have not seen is sufficient weight of demand to justify either: diverting resources from existing production or from production of other content.

Blackwyn.8127:

Now let’s put this into a different perspective. Imagine the players that only raid and don’t want to PvE to get full masteries. Other than the basics and raid masteries, they haven’t touched the rest at all. If these guys wanted to get full masteries so they can get their spirit shards, how long do you think it would take them? Do you think they have it as easy as you guys that they only need to do one event and it’s over? They would have tons of hours to play content they don’t want to to look forward to.

If you’d followed the spirit of the thread, you would see that what’s really being asked for is a post-80 level tick reward that is not gated by Mastery completion. Were that to happen, that hypothetical player you’ve postulated could gain said reward by earning XP playing content he enjoys, the same as everyone else.

Blackwyn.8127:

But here’s the mind blower. How many posts have you seen of people that just raids, that they deserve to get spirit shards too cause they don’t want to do map exploring, adventures, quests, meta events, pve?
Let that sink in to you for a moment.

Perhaps those players who are reaping the substantial rewards offered by raids are feeling less hard done by than those whose preferences are, by comparison, nowhere near as rewarding.

Fancypants.9705:

I don’t understand why people are constantly saying dungeons are dead… they may not be as popular as other content but they’re def not dead. I run dungeons all the time and rarely have problems finding groups.

At a guess, it works like this: Player A logs on, checks LFG to see if there is an immediately available group for the path he wants, then gives up in disgust because there isn’t and he cba to make a group and wait.

There’s also the possibility that between region and playtime, there’s more interest at some times than at others.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Funny, the Devs spoke about raiding even before the game launched. (They talk about raiding in many of the pre-release interviews.) I’ve no idea if there are statements about ‘never having raids’ in the game after launch, but if so, then I guess they changed their minds, and then changed them, again.

I remember references to explorable dungeons as raid equivalents. I also remember 3+ years of no raids in GW2. Regardless of who said what and when, it’s a stretch to think they’d have added raids if demand for did not exceed reactions against — and there certainly was reaction against.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think it makes you lazy, that’s for sure but I don’t understand where people get off thinking they deserve the bonus rewards for NOT doing the content needed to unlock it. Yes, I do think entitled is the correct word for that.

Why is it OK for some players to demand changes to the game to suit their preferences, but not for others to make demands to suit theirs? We have raids at all due to such demands. Raids have exclusive rewards because raiders demanded those rewards. Apparently, those players were not entitled, yet they bucked not only the status quo but also ANet statements that there would be no raiding in GW2.

smh

Neosayayin.3498

5) People can get better gear and be more prepare for Group Raids.
6) Can start the legendary armor collection.

Why I’m gone do Group Raids if I can do Open Raids?

The answer is simple, because bosses don’t drop lot in Open Raids and you are gone lose the opportunity of getting the unique bosses rewards.

It would seem to me that 5 & 6 contradict the idea that loot does not drop in a hypothetical Open Raid.

Regardless, loot is going to be the sticking point for the idea.

• If no loot, no replay value, so development resources would be wasted.
• If loot, then existing raids are devalued.

I believe you need to face the idea that zone meta events like DS are as close as this game will come to what you want.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, why no problem with Iteration 2? It seems the complaint is XP ‘going to waste’. Or, not getting ’rewarded with Spirit Shards.

It didn’t really seem to be a problem for those 4/5 months. In fact, not only the 4/5 months, but only since the advent of said Spirit Shard reward.

Still seems odd to me.

Why?

Everyone was treated the same in Iteration 2, and people had Masteries to look forward to. There was no “left out” group and, the way the change was presented, the “nothing from post-80 XP” was temporary. Also, when game changes are still theoretical, players complain less, or not at all. Once implemented, well, you know what happens.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering where the outcry was for the 4 or 5 months prior to the release of HoT when XP gain gave L80 characters absolutely nothing? No Hero Points, no Skill Points, nothing.

Why is it such a big deal now that some players can attain Spirit Shards, of all things? Something that drops from sooo many sources.

Odd.

Iteration 1: Everybody got skill points on the post-80 tick.
Iteration 2: No one got anything on the post 80 tick.
Interlude: Masteries appear; XP gets used again. People start complaining they are wasting XP, both when they have completed Masteries and when they are blocked by unlocks/unappealing MP tasks.
Iteration3: ANet decides to cater to those complaints, but only for completionists.

Iterations 1 and 2 were egalitarian. Iteration 3 is not. Meanwhile, 3 is seen as a replacement for 1.

Not odd. It ain’t the shards, per se. It’ the non-egalitarian implementation of a reward that used to be for everyone.

Your best bet is to wait for the next infusion of desirable gem store items. Generally when that happens more people want to exchange gold for gems, which in turn increases the gold gained by converting gems.

TexZero.7910:

Normally i’d agree with this, if it wasn’t for the fact that literally everything tosses out spirit shards now. Almost every bag has a shard, dalies have them etc…. Shards have become inflated currency almost in a worse state than gold was pre-hot.

I’d also like to point out that you can still get shards from doing task you want to do, just play core tyria stuff you enjoy and get more shards. Or just don’t give a flying penguin about “XP” as its useless to begin with outside of masteries.

For me (at least), the issue is not shards, it’s the change from a system where post-80 XP gave something to one in which it gives something only if. It’s not the first time ANet has changed things up to the detriment of some players’ play experience. “Wasted post-80 XP” may not be a huge deal, but it was enough of a deal that shards for level tick was programmed back in. Why only for some?

Ayrilana.1396:

And in most RPG’s there is a level cap where that progression stops. Character progression has never been infinite although there may be some games that are an exception but I can’t think of any.

I can think of 2. Guild Wars, and Guild Wars 2 before the L80 tick changes that preceded the Mastery system.

TexZero.7910:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

TexZero.7910:

It’s only being wasted by a player choice. Sorry, not much sympathy. Everyone in this game is capable of raiding.

Are you saying that, since doing raids is just a choice, there shouldn’t be any prestige (and special, unique rewards like, say, Legendary armor) attached to them? Because somehow i really doubt that’s what you intended.

Nope, what im saying is if you want something…instead of complaining you’re being restricted from it (by choice) then you clearly don’t want the something bad enough.

And sometimes it’s worth pointing out if something is unreasonably restricted. Players have made reasonable (and yes, unreasonable) requests for change since the game started and anet have adapted the game where appropriate. In this case, the raiding requirement is unreasonable, and after reading some of your other posts it seems like you would agree.

You’re always making the argument that raids are hard, challenging content with prestigious rewards and have an intended target audience; i.e. not the entire player base. If that’s the case, how can you argue that everyone can and should do it? Where’s the challenge and prestige if every man and his dog is a raider?

That’s just it, raiding is hard and challenging and yet Anet has done a great job at having multiple degrees of difficulty encased within them. This means that literally everyone who plays this game is capable of raiding should they actually put forward the bare minimum asked of them by the game. Unfortunately people still want to do less than that and be rewarded (see SW, AB, Daily Log-in). It’s a pretty poor showing that people would rather not play the content than actually do it and be rewarded aptly for their time.

A minor level-up reward is not an apt reward for raiding. It ought to be what it was before Hero Points, shards and the mastery system were invented, a minor use for the XP that the game throws around as part of the reward for playing any aspect of the game. Raiding already provides rewards that ought to be sufficient for what it entails. If raiding requires a Spirit Shard for XP reward to entice players to engage with it, then raiding is in serious trouble.

Honestly, the real issue isn’t raiding. Raiding only applies in HoT zones. Shards are gated in core, also, just not behind raids. The real issue is removing an XP reward that used to be generally available and then restoring it, but only for the completionist. Sending the message that XP is worthless unless you do a laundry list of tasks is not, imo, a good message for the health of the game.

Malediktus.3740:

Story mode is waste of development time, zero replay value

Which is (hopefully) a lesson that story mode dungeons taught ANet.

Ayrilana.1396:

One thing that I always wondered about would be if players against WvW/PvP could even tell the difference between NPC enemies with slightly improved AI vs other players. The complaint they have rides soley on them having to fight other players whereas if they were just NPC’s performing identically to players then they’d have no issues.

I’m pretty sure that PvE-only player complaints would go through the roof were ANet to produce single mobs that have high burst damage, insane sustain and extreme mobility, or mob groups that drop so much AoE that there is literally nowhere to go.

Quarktastic.1027:

IndigoSundown.5419:

tolunart.2095:

Originally and ideally, Legendary weapons were to be a badge of honor demonstrating that you have mastered all aspects of the game, not just those parts you want to play while ignoring the rest. Open world PvE, PvP, WvW, dungeons and fractals, everything should contribute some aspect of the Legendary. They got away from this in the years after launch (for example removing WvW maps from 100% map completion and the Gift of Exploration) and being able to buy completed Legendary weapons for gold kind of rendered that whole “badge of honor” thing pointless. So now it’s more a badge of grinding.

While I understand and appreciate your point, the idea that taking nine hours to complete the GoB reward track is “grind” is representative of a lot of what’s gone wrong with the MMO consumer-base.

It only takes nine hours if you have a good WvW team who know what they’re doing. If you’re just zerging around the map, it’ll take quite a bit longer. And if, like me, you despise WvW, it’ll take even longer than that.

The conservative nine hour estimate was based on play when my server was linked to a losing T4 NA server that was getting overrun by the winning server. Even if it took 18 hours, which is frankly ludicrous, it still shouldn’t be called “grind.”

tolunart.2095:

Originally and ideally, Legendary weapons were to be a badge of honor demonstrating that you have mastered all aspects of the game, not just those parts you want to play while ignoring the rest. Open world PvE, PvP, WvW, dungeons and fractals, everything should contribute some aspect of the Legendary. They got away from this in the years after launch (for example removing WvW maps from 100% map completion and the Gift of Exploration) and being able to buy completed Legendary weapons for gold kind of rendered that whole “badge of honor” thing pointless. So now it’s more a badge of grinding.

While I understand and appreciate your point, the idea that taking nine hours to complete the GoB reward track is “grind” is representative of a lot of what’s gone wrong with the MMO consumer-base.

I believe that anyone who, prior to now, found motivation or esprit de corps in belonging to a server will still do so. If, that is, they are on the primary server in a link. Secondary servers are less likely to generate such feelings. Not only do they take s back seat with regard to name recognition, bu also because at re-link they may no longer be where their contributions put them.

I would neither use nor care for a story-mode raid. By all accounts the raid lore is both peripheral and minuscule. It’s not like we had to raid to kill Mordremoth the way WotLK players had to to deal with that story boss. I’d much rather ANet focused non-raid PvE development on other areas.

alberte.2685:

If every LW update is a gem store update, then ask a question, why do I want to play guild wars? Why do I want to keep online?

People I know play for fun.

alberte.2685:

ANET, you should completely shut down the gem shops and gold exchange system, so that all the updates are IN-GAME SIKN .then just back to MMOPRG time charge

GW2 was advertised as buy-to-play and many people play GW2 because it’s B2P. Your desires are in direct conflict with those of who like the business model. It’s my hope that ANet keeps to their advertised business model.

I cannot remember the last time a new build interrupted my playing WvW. I’m not sure that it’ ever happened to me, to be frank. I’m also not sure that “interrupting” WvW play is that big of a deal. Assuming the usual “Your game will close in one hour.” happens, this should be more than enough time to finish any ongoing fight or objective cap. I’d want to know what the perceived negatives — other than “I don’t want to be bothered.” — are before thinking this is an issue that needs to be fixed.

The game is in irl languages. For characters, we have to assume that they are hearing their native tongues. Who is to say that the Charr do not have a unisex title which translates to “Lord?”

I used to:

• Run around, zone explore on 1 of 9 characters that don’t have the gold star, while doing random events and harvesting mats to sell.
• Jump into WvW to advance a reward track, mostly via roaming.
• Do events in HoT or SW, maybe (or maybe not) completing a meta.

Right now, I log off after either collecting the login reward or completing three tasks that I can do playing KB only with my off hand (due to a medical issue ).

ANet has been upping PvE difficulty since the intro of Karka in Nov., 2012. However. there are problems.

• Players demand stuff. New (i.e., better) stat combos and elite specs both resulted from player demand, and both generated power creep.
• Players get better. Every time something harder has been added, the first reaction is some players thank ANet while others demand the harder stuff be nerfed. Later, the thankful start throwing “too easy” around again and the complaints dry up. This is learning curve at work.
• ANet can’t seem to decide who it wants the game to appeal to.

Not in favor of lowering the capabilities or duration of existing abilities to justify the existence of new stats.

HoT neither killed nor invigorated my interest in GW2. It was a wash.

I do find the nature of HoT meta events to be outside my play time habits (too bloody long), so I did them rarely. I find needing to consult Dulfy to avoid frustration when exploring to be another negative. On the other hand, the maps look cool, and I by-and-large am OK with most of the mobs.

However, I’m not looking forward to the new map and haven’t yet played BSF. By the time I’m likely to be able to play again, they’ll be yesterday’s news.

OP

Playing WvW entitles you to queue for, enter and play on the maps. That includes following a zerg/commander around if there is. It does not include guaranteed membership in a social circle, no matter how informal it might be. That commander cannot stop you following him around, but he is not obliged to let you into his squad. Nor is he obligated to show you a good time.

It’s unfortunate that your lack of VOIP cost you a place in the squad. You have the right to decide for yourself whether to use such programs or not. He has the right to decide whether there are requirements to be in the squad he set up.

Danikat.8537:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It would be foolish for ANet to set up a discount policy for the express purpose of appeasing players whose attitude amounts to, “I bought product X. and am therefore entitled to pay less (or nothing) for any subsequent product that the company offers.” Discounts and customer loyalty programs have their place, but creating such to cater to such a mindset would be a fool’s errand.

I don’t know, as someone else said various real-life stores do have loyalty schemes where spending enough gets you a discount or free stuff.

But it’s usually a very low rate of return, like every £1 you spend gets you 1 point and 100 points = £1 off. In other words spend £100 to save £1.

Still, if you’re going to spend money there anyway (and the points don’t expire) it’s better than nothing.

Ophidia Moonstone.2587:

I don’t feel “entitled” to Starbucks rewards points for purchasing coffee, but I do appreciate the program and it makes me feel better about buying a 6 dollar drink to know after I purchase so many of them I will get a freebie. The thing is sooner or later GW2 is going to have real competition from another MMO, and when they do you will most certainly see such schemes to encourage player loyalty… which is basically all this is, encouraging players to be loyal and spend $$$ on gems knowing that their loyalty will be “rewarded”.

I would have no issue with a loyalty program that, say, provided a small amount of gems free after volume gem purchases with cash. That kind of like-for-like bonus is closer to what I see.

However, that’s not what the OP is proposing. He wants a steep discount on XPacs, which serve the business purpose of providing a large infusion of cash to defray the expense of making new areas and content. He wants this discount at a rate which is a lot friendlier towards the consumer than any reward discounts I’ve see elsewhere by an order of magnitude. Finally, he offers that ANet should do this to appease a certain mindset.

To clarify, my objections are that not only are the suggested numbers egregiously unrealistic, a discount-based on gem purchase would not appease complainers who believe that a single purchase years ago should guarantee them discounted or even free access to all future XPacs.

It would be foolish for ANet to set up a discount policy for the express purpose of appeasing players whose attitude amounts to, “I bought product X. and am therefore entitled to pay less (or nothing) for any subsequent product that the company offers.” Discounts and customer loyalty programs have their place, but creating such to cater to such a mindset would be a fool’s errand.

That useless stuff is an integral part of BLC key monetizing. It’s not going anywhere. I encourage people who dislike the BLC scheme to do the only thing ANet will listen to — stop buying keys. Don’t buy keys with gems from cash, don’t buy keys with gems from gold.

Disclaimer: I don’t expect this to happen because it would take self-control and the key scheme banks on people not having self-control.

maddoctor.2738:

Infinite achievements create a never ending cycle just to cater to a group of people who want to see some numbers go up daily.

And all the cap does is cater to people who behave obsessively about AP, and who don’t want to police their own behavior.

Meanwhile, removing incentives reduces play time. The profit plan for an MMO involves the generation of repetitive cycles. Removing such a cycle doesn’t seem like a good thing.

“Want it handed to you!” is such a bull-gravy attack. Wants something in a 2 year time frame v. 6 year = “handed to you” … smh.

Maybe Harper is more ready to believe ANet has the chops and will to remove a cap and unwilling to believe they’ll majorly revamp AP in any other way. I certainly have no faith that ANet will do the latter.