Guild Wars 2

We’ve already accepted the 5v5.

MIrra.3604:

Which group isn’t important anymore. Whats important is making a statement which you can’t back up.

You apparently can’t back up yours.

MIrra.3604:

Love this statement…

One of the best roaming group from Mag challenged RIOT openly on the forum for 5v5 and/or roaming fights and was either turned down or made excuses that they couldn’t 5v5. A lot of roamers during the BG/Mag/JQ/SOR season 1 wanted to see that fight but it never happened.

Which group?

lolwut.4298:

Logi.5612:

Alright i’m done with all these dumb back and forth throwing. Let’s organize a GvG, 5v5 straight up.

Or will you dodge and make more excuses? This will be a good opportunity for you to back up all your excuses right now. Mail either me or Joe and we’ll set it up.

awww kitten the 5v5 call out – how will RIOT respond?

I’m down but almost everyone else is logged off right now so I’ll have to ask them when they get back on.

Pretty weak sauce reply Joe but I kinda figured I’d get as much.

What I believe is that deep down you know that fight was a meaningless ambush gank but that, as your friend put it, you guys really want to get your name out there so you took the opportunity to use the fact that you happened to gank RIOT members on a champ mob because you figured it would make tM a bigger deal.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

No one is Joe’s boyfriend in this thread but if I was to choose based on the behaviour of the GROWN MEN in this thread crying over a video game, Joe is far more attractive, sugar.

Modesty > Pretentiousness

Suits me fine, you give me the creeps.

The rest of these guys are white knighting pretty hard which leads me to believe that deep down they know this video was garbage but they like Joe so they don’t want to see him have to admit it was just a meaningless gank.

Another boyfriend white knighting for Joe.

No one’s talking to you.

Forget good sportsmanship. Don’t say it’s a good fight if you know it wasn’t like I don’t know any better. If I thought you guys played bad I’d tell you, I wouldn’t tell you “good fight.”

BTW wasn’t there another earlier fight that you guys lost too?

As I’ve said before, you did a good job of catching us napping. We could’ve shown better situational awareness there. It was a good ambush and we didn’t react nearly as quickly as we should have.

But you still deserve to be belittled. You idolize some of us and want to establish a relationship so you post a video of you ambushing us after we spent the entire afternoon sparring? We had several other fights that day, why not post those or even give mention to them? I think it’s because Joe wanted to give the impression that that was our only encounter that day.

If Joe didn’t intend insult then he is either not very bright or chose his words very poorly because ganking people and then saying “good fight you guys are great” is insulting.

And I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but I don’t think I would’ve ever been interested in a “friendly rivalry” with you guys because quite frankly I don’t see that there’s anything to be gained from it. That being said, I’m probably the least friendly member of RIOT but after all this I don’t think you’ll be able to get much traction with anyone else in guild either.

lolwut.4298:

If you honestly think that you guys played that well you are either delusional or terrible, there was a lot of potential for you guys to win that fight but it was obvious that you guys were inadequate to achieve that outcome

Maybe you should actually learn to play the game both mechanically and in situational awareness before trying to make all these excuses when you were clearly outplayed by a large margin. Go back to your PU builds and continue to hope that your cheese specs are able to make up for your lack of skill

We didn’t get outplayed mechanically, we got ambushed. It was a good ambush but a terrible fight. The problem wasn’t improper skill rotations or wasted cooldowns or split dps, it was that our two main dps got bursted before we could regroup leaving us with only randoms who weren’t on TS. So for him to call it a good fight and say we did great is condescending nonsense.

It bothers me that we got ganked but what bothers me more is for him to talk to us like “yeah you guys did your best we were just better.” It’s an insult to my intelligence.

lolwut.4298:

A lot of excuses for a lack of player skill

The mistakes that we made were made before that fight even started. We were too spread out, we pulled a mob when we shouldn’t have and we weren’t paying attention. None of those mistakes were skill-based. Situational awareness and mechanical skill are two totally different things.

There is no amount of player skill that could’ve changed the outcome of that fight for our group. We were at a severe disadvantage the minute our engi got bursted and done for once our necro got bursted before we could regroup.

The only people who could’ve turned that fight around at that point were the randoms. Unfortunately none of them were on TS with us at the time.

The fact that Joe calls it a “good fight” and says “we did great” is nonsense. We barely got to do anything at all there. This leads me to believe he is either being sarcastic or intentionally dense for the sake of politeness. No one in their right mind could sincerely call that a good fight.

lolwut.4298:

Well yeah obviously you would rather the champ because of your lack of skill, but if it was a toss up between 4/5 skilled players or the champ the skilled players would be better any day of the week

Of the 9 players in that video only four were on TS at the time and our engi was all off on his own. You can see him get bursted first before we even knew what was going on. Our necro got bursted before we could properly regroup. So that left 2 of us. I was at half health on engage from fighting the champ. You can see me get chain ccd by the champ while our mesmer and I were still trying to regroup. I had to use my stability to stop getting tossed around by the champ but then I got chain ccd again by tM and bursted. So that just left our mesmer. The rest were randoms. It was a textbook gank. We can’t be held responsible for the skill level of map randoms who happened to be there trying to kill that mob with us. One of them was down before the fight even started.

I would gladly have switched places with tM there. I would gladly take our 4/5 and the champ mob (especially with the element of surprise) any day of the week over what we had.

lolwut.4298:

Id rather have 9 people over 4 people and that champ (unless those 9 people are at RIOTs skill level in which case id probably just be better off solo)

I’d rather have 4 (or was it 5?) and the champ. I’ve seen commander-led 20-30 man zergs wipe because of 10 people and a champ. The airport champ, the bell tower champ and the statuary champ are ridiculously strong. The blue keep engineer champ is even worse.

I’m not twisting his words, you are. You’re twisting mine as well. I never said that players from lower tiers were necessarily worse than players from upper tiers. Someone else said that and he says it bothered him.

He says that he wants to demonstrate that not everyone from lower tiers is bad by fighting guilds from upper tiers.

We are from BG, a t1 server therefore it makes sense to assume he was referring to us in this instance since we are in the video.

And please don’t call me sugar it’s creepy.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

If that’s what was going on here, love, he’d just trait for Prismatic Understanding and be done with it.

I personally give huge props to Joe for not running FotM faceroll spec that actually has some risks involved if he messes up.

Thanks for the vid, Joe! <3

Read the OP he says he wanted to show that they could hang with upper tier guilds. He says he wanted to show that not everyone from lower tier is bad. Those are his words, not mine.

Not about you.

/15characters

Well I don’t need it.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Its kinda lame how in the introduction to the video Joe gives props/respect to RIOT and then they come in to the thread and start flaming him…

I don’t think he actually respects us I think he thinks we’re trash and is too afraid to say it.

I mean if I legit 4v9 someone I’m gonna think they’re bad, obviously that’s what he thinks now too.

If he thinks this was a legit fight where we were ready to go and fought our best and they just overcame the odds with epic skill then one must conclude that he thinks we are inferior to him and he should just say that.

I could live with that.

I don’t think we had 3 to 5 times your numbers I think you weren’t paying attention and got rolled. It can happen to anyone, it’s no big deal.

That’s what happened to us. We weren’t paying attention, you got a good hit on our guys and then the pugs were easy kills. This sort of thing happens.

No one can that hit away from you, it was a good hit.

I also recognize that you want to make a name for yourself and prove that you can “hang with the big boys” or whatever. That’s cool man.

So you ganked us on a champ mob and posted a video of it.

Is it entertaining? Yeah, I’d say so.

But it’s just a gank video.

Also I didn’t go to EOTM beta.

Meh, it was a good gank. We got them back later half asleep on a bridge. That’s the way it goes. Sometimes you gank, sometimes you get ganked.

albotelho.2931:

but this week looks like we are forcing a drop to T2.

A quick glance at MOS tells us that that’s not gonna happen except by random matchup.

Chris.3290:

Not paying for guilds = problem = Tier 1 logic

To the best of my knowledge BG and JQ are the only servers who have bought guilds. SoR helped IRON after they decided they were coming. FA bought RISE and swore off buying after that went South.

Sometimes deals go south it happens.

The real problem is that there aren’t legally binding contracts so FA couldn’t force them to stay and play.

Being overstacked is a good thing. It reflects a strong community and high morale.

If our opponents are outnumbered then they need to do more recruiting.

The problem that SoR has always had is that they consistently refuse to pay people to transfer and they’ve turned away good guilds because they didn’t want to get “too strong” in certain timezones,as if that’s a bad thing. Then they come on the forums and post about not caring about the score and I just don’t think that’s a very good sales pitch. They also don’t attract a very strong PvE crowd because many of their big guilds actively show disdain towards PvE.

JQ has never had these sorts of hangups and I think that’s why JQ will usually be the bigger threat. They’ll take anyone, they’ll pay and they always play to win.

1. Many people, myself included, feel that there is no such thing as “winning too often.”

2. Zergs are a part of WvW, get over it.

3. We do get the same opponents but JQ and SoR are great opponents so I don’t see the problem.

4. I can’t speak on NA timezone but I play OCX, SEA and EU and we usually only have enough people to queue one map and even then it’s a short queue. We definitely still have plenty of room for anyone playing in any of those timezones, we might have room for NA as well I really don’t know.

I’ve been playing on Blackgate server for most of the time I’ve played GW2. I’ve tried Maguuma, Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, Sanctum of Rall and Yak’s Bend and out of all of them I’ve never felt at home except on Blackgate.

I would recommend it to anyone.

What sort of “support” are you looking for?

Dayra.7405:

It looks like your NA-afternoon/evening (is that your prime? Note that the time in the picture is my time i.e. CET, NYC is -6 and Seatle is -9) is losing every advantage you gained over the other 16h (is that your off-time?).

Right well that’s our weakest timezone usually. I can’t say if we lose “every advantage” but I’m sure we get hit pretty hard, SoR and JQ have very strong NA forces. The major comparison problem is that we don’t just make two distinctions of “prime/not-prime,” we make 4 major distinctions (OCX, SEA, EU, NA) which are themselves divided into “early” and “late.” All three servers have people on at all times of the day however not all servers are equally strong at all times of the day. Several guilds play overlapping timezones so there’s almost always a steady handing off of leadership from one timezone to another. T1 NA is competitive 24/7. Could it be even more competitive than it already is? Absolutely. But that’s a problem that can be solved by us, I don’t think it requires developer intervention.

I think that before we try a heavy handed (and likely flawed) developer-based intervention to minimize the effect of “overpowered” guilds on so called “weak-zone” PPT there should instead be a player-based push to consolidate the servers to the point where we start having only mega servers with 24/7 coverage. Hopefully it will become meaningless to talk of “prime and off” because every timezone will be competitive as has already largely occurred in T1 NA.

If this sort of player-based initiative isn’t feasible for the EU servers then I would hope that developer intervention would just focus on EU rather than including us as well.

Well we’re kind of comparing apples and oranges here I think.

EDIT: It seems like in EU there is a big divide between what is considered “prime-time” and what is considered “off-time” but this is not the case for those of us in T1 NA and perhaps in other tiers as well I’m not entirely sure though.

Dayra.7405:

This is part of the problem! The prime-time queue would be horrible btw. if anyone that plays WvW would transfer to a T1-server.

As I understand it we still have plenty of room even during NA prime and we’re one of if not the most heavily populated server in NA. I play SEA/EU timezone on BG and we don’t have queues.

Dayra.7405:

No, your prime-time does not matter et al currently, it’s the off-time that keep you in T1. Your primetime is probably only medicoere as it is irrelevant for Match outcome Anyway.

Mediocre compared to whom? SoR NA is the strongest NA in the game and we can hang PPT-wise against them so I dunno who you’re comparing us to.

Moreover T1 NA is a 24/7 game, every timezone matters, you can’t be really weak in any timezone and have any hope of winning the overall match.

I think the simpler solution would be for people to either transfer to servers with better coverage or try to recruit more people to shore up their server’s weak coverage spots.

I’ve been playing on Blackgate for most of the time I’ve played GW2 and it’s nice to know that my contribution will be meaningful regardless of the timezone I choose to play in because my server has 24/7 coverage.

I started playing about a month after launch and I never saw the point of the legendary weapons so I’ve never made one. I haven’t done any of the ascended weapons and I don’t plan on doing the ascended armors either. I hate crafting and I don’t particularly like the PvE in this game so I’m not going to try to force myself through the PvE grind necessary to make this stuff.

I enjoyed the achievement point hunt even before the chests came out so I do that. I enjoy spvp so I do that. I enjoy WvW so I do that.

Just do what you like man. At least that way if you’re grinding it’ll be a fun grind.

I think it’s a good idea. The T1 matchup threads were usually filled with unpleasantness and endless back and forth name calling between disgruntled players of one kind or another. I’ll be glad to see them go.

Enjoyed the video. Good job team Blackgate.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Why would you be glad, you were not involved :P.

I was involved in your forum shenanigans and I’m glad to hear that the issue was settled.

LightningBlaze.4913:

I agree it came out in a rude way. I should have worded it differently but the 1v1 encounters did take place. It was a lot of fun. Good mesmer players are still a pain in the neck to defeat as an ele. I liked how their leader warrior uses his gs skills to gain range for his rifle weapon skills. I’m normally the one that kite warriors but this time I was the one being kited lol. Overall, we enjoyed our duels and the misunderstanding was clarified.

Well good I’m glad to hear it.

LightningBlaze.4913:

If you read it with that negative mentality of course it will look like that to you. I was wondering because every time I see this guild is always in group roaming. So the question is still unanswered. Does AoN have players that are good at 1v1? It is a simple yes or no question. No need to make it huge. If the answer is yes I would like to duel them.

Still a rude way to go about arranging 1v1s but ok whatever.

scootshoot.6583:

Am surprised you didn’t use your typical comeback to just Transfer Off when a playerbase is unhappy.

I guess if he’s that upset it’s always an option.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Not crying just wondering if the rumors are true. All great roaming guilds have awesome players that excels at both 1v1 and group vs group encounters. For example from our server that will be Riot and Opp. or is AoN only decent at group roaming?

Looks like crying to me.

Life’s not fair, war’s not fair, wvw isn’t fair. You want 1v1s? Go duel in the mists.

If anyone is running around as a group and they gank you then that’s your fault for not having a group to match theirs.

I’d say the same thing to anyone and that includes people in my own guild.

LightningBlaze.4913:

AoN members always run in full group? is it because every single one are horrible individually? if not I would like to encounter one that is at least decent on 1v1.

Maybe you should stop crying and get a group of your own. It’s not their responsibility to stop what they’re doing just to make you happy.

Jaxs.5830:

Maybe instead of playing in a decided match they are spending all their time recruiting and raising money for a warchest, it is the GW2 way.

Unless they get new leadership I think that would be against their code. When I was on SoR I heard their leadership say numerous times that they were against raising funds to straight up buy guilds. Now I’ve heard it through the grapevine that they’ll contribute to a guild’s coffers if they’ve already decided to move to SoR but apparently that’s where they draw the line.

sendmark.4731:

Have to say when I do hotjoin I always go 8v8. I play 5v5 enough in tournament or solo. It’s fun going in and just having constant fights in an environment where result is not the be all and end all. I do not think removing 8v8 will encourage more players into 5v5, only making 5v5 more fun and with more game modes will do that.

Agree. Focus on incentives. Increase player choice don’t limit it.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

It was simply a joke, I’m sure you’re fully capable of taking one. It’s a video game and we are simply attempting to provide the most quality experience we can for our players in game so they can play as they wish.

Anyways concerning the topic, there are players that impeded from getting better at our game and something we wish to do is help players understand how PvP works and help them get better if they do wish it so.

The decision on this topic has yet to be made. Either Josh or myself can give an update when a decision is made. However let me ask this, would you guys like to see less 8v8 servers? no 8v8 servers? Possibly re-work the play now so that it looks for 5v5 matches as priority?

What makes you assume that their impediment to progress is Anet’s fault and not their own?

I think you should just focus on giving people the tools they need to improve and making them easy to understand. The best/least intrusive option I can think of is to simply clean up the spvp UI. Right now it’s a jumbled mess and at first glance there’s no discernible way of separating 8v8 from 5v5 options. There’s also the visual clutter added by all the player-made custom arena titles. Perhaps they should all be separated into their own categories a la tournaments.

The current tournament UI is much easier to understand. It gives you option A and option B and a clear visual aid and textual description of what each choice entails.

I don’t think 8v8 should be removed. Obviously it’s a game mode some people enjoy, myself included. If you don’t agree with my values then don’t play 8v8, simple as that. Play whatever makes you happy, let no one interfere.

If anything we need more game modes, let the players play what they want to play.

This paternalistic attitude of “what we want our youngsters to learn” is absurd. Let people decide for themselves what they want to learn. If you don’t agree with other people’s choices then keep it to yourself, no one needs anyone else’s permission to play this game as they see fit and I don’t see why they should.

Zephyrus.9680:

I’ll just call that #t1logic because it’s incomprehensible to me. The matches where we outnumber the other servers are the WORST matches. I quit this game for months when mag had a series like that. You’re referring to PPT like it’s the sole reason to WvW while I don’t honestly understand how PPT could have any meaning to anyone unless there was a competition for the outcome.

We don’t outnumber all of our competition. The t1 matches are usually pretty close.

I guess there are any number of desired ends that players could have when playing WvW but my gaming philosophy instructs me to always focus on the game’s official objectives and to try to not invent my own.

If the game’s official objective is PPT then I will measure my performance based on how much I can contribute to my server’s ability to gain and maintain PPT.

If I find a game’s official objectives uninteresting then I will find another game with more interesting objectives.

Jaxs.5830:

Perhaps I am wrong, but right now BG seems too congested to roam on. Every time you turn around you seem like you would have friendlies adding on your fight or acting as rally bait, plus you would always be waiting on someone to get through que.

Yeah it can be a little chaotic. Sometimes they’ll get adds sometimes we’ll get adds. I never know exactly what’s gonna happen and I suppose that’s part of the allure of t1 roaming. It’s random, it’s dynamic, it’s not always going to be fair.

The queues can be a little obnoxious depending on the time of the day but I’ve been able to deal with it.

Convenant.7092:

@Israell; it’s really unfortunate we took our break right when you joined us.. we would love to have you around again. You’re definitely right, I don’t care about “cheese” or any of these subjective crap that matter only to serve ego purposes. To be effective is my only concern. And I am pretty uptight about builds to be honest… if one of my members will refuse to run a build simply because it’s “cheese” when we all consider that it’s the most effective right now for our group, then I’d probably kick him.

Can always come to BG

And yeah man you really earned my utmost respect as a leader and as a theorycrafter. No moves were ever off the table, nothing was ever considered off-limits or unacceptable if it meant a potential increase in effectiveness from your group. You always knew what you wanted your members to be running and you didn’t tolerate insubordination and I thought it was brilliant.

Too bad you guys just wanted to play Smite when I was there lol.

deathTouch.9706:

And I’d rather run with a group that can be confident to take on any other roaming group of similar size/larger size on any other server and be confident we’d come out on top. The way I view victories is on the battlefield, when players are actually engaging each other in a test of skill and coordination, rather than the artificial scorecard at the end of the week which, as most people agree, is mainly influenced by number of warm bodies on each server and how much PvD they are able to accomplish during oceanic hours.

It’s all in what you’re looking to get out of the game. I feel we just have differing metrics on how we evaluate our personal performance.

I think you could just as easily find what you’re looking for on BG but the difference would be that you’d have the support of a server with 24/7 presence at your back as well.

I know from personal experience that finding an outnumbered fight against SoR or JQ is never difficult and they’ve got people on at all hours.

deathTouch.9706:

Right now though, we have to make a choice given Anet’s design decisions. Either face consistent, challenging outnumbered fights but lose the PPT fight every week, or join a zerg server and play for PPT but feel like we’re steamrolling over people through sheer numbers advantage. And there’s no question we’d rather have the former than the latter.

I think that’s a false dichotomy. But it also seems like a manufactured psychological win-win. If you lose no one cares because no one expects you to win and if you win you get to gloat and feel superior because no one expects you to win. See what I mean? That’s the psychological advantage of being the underdog and I think why so many people like to see themselves cast in that role.

I can understand this. There’s a psychological pressure in being the top dog and the favorite to win. Every win is taken for granted, no one is ever surprised or impressed. Every loss is seen as being an indication of weakness or lack of skill. Losers deride winners with bitterness and resentment and winners are hardly ever popular. There are few things that humans enjoy more than seeing a winner disgraced. Misery loves company as they say.

I’d still rather be in a position to win. I’d rather know that my side has the strength to come out victorious. It’s nice to be the underdog but I feel that it’s more frustrating to feel that my efforts are ultimately going to be for nothing. If that frustration ever outweighs the self-satisfaction you get to feel from being the underdog I would advise that you consider a transfer.

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

Jaxs.5830:

Did your change of heart come while playing on one of the only three servers that have a reason to play for PPT? In other games I would agree with you, but not in GW2, the system is too broken. There is not enough off-hour population to support enough balanced servers for the much larger NA population. If everyone lumped up to make balanced servers based on the availability of off-hour population, all of the NA folks would spend most of their time in the upcoming overflow map.

When close match-ups become the norm rather than a once in a blue moon event, I might have a change of heart, until then WvW is all about roaming open world fighting.

Fair enough. And the answer to your question is “yes.” But BG has had some very close matches with SoR and JQ in recent months so I suppose I have had a very different experience of WvW.