I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say
- Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
- SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
- I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.
Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.
All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.
It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?
Solid troll post.
Which build is OP in reference to?
I’m guessing Viper Shiro/Mallyx?
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I don’t think many condi revs are going to be running invocation over retribution.
The old stun lock warrior build could be really annoying too.
How much more evidence do you need that nearly every team having one and some teams having two?
I think it’s because people don’t understand them well enough to know how they’re countered yet.
What build are you playing and what are you fighting?
Hey at least it’s not 4 cele eles wins right?
If Infuse Light has no counterplay then neither does Defiant Stance.
Warrior uses Defiant Stance (1/4 cast time), if they don’t get hit, they are kittened. But unlike warrior, rev got a 2nd heal if they kittened Infused Light (0 cast time), there is still the 2nd heal. Ohhh and “i didn’t know Defiant Stance pulses out AOE regen”
That’s really not the point. The point is that Infuse Light works exactly the same way Defiant Stance does. It’s a three second window where they absorb damage dealt to them. It has counterplay. Stop attacking them for three seconds and wasted heal. Also enchanted daggers sucks.
I actually really liked watching the team with the double druid double chrono setup. Interesting to watch unusual setups like that.
DH damage output is really strong but it’s also squishy and relatively slow. This isn’t such a hindrance in solo q or whatever where I see people leave DHs alone to freecast all the time but at the competitive level they just seem to get jumped on immediately.
The invisible cc walls are really annoying too.
You’re actually describing matchmaking issues not solo queue issues.
Agreed. Bring solo queue back.
If Infuse Light has no counterplay then neither does Defiant Stance.
No issues counterplaying Revs as a Guardian. I manage well enough with my instant cast block and invulnerable skills. Can’t vouche for other classes.
Typically, you know whether or not they use their teleporting shenanigans on you. You should have a strategy to negate that ability, one way or another.
Revs are weak against condi but, that’s not exactly a fix considering condi builds are more difficult to make work in higher tier pvp. Unless you’re Guardian.
Why does it matter if some builds are hard to make work in higher tier pvp? If the goal is to counter heralds then condi builds will counter them.
Putting aside the fact that a solid strategy against any shiro/glint build is simply condition pressure, what exactly constitutes “counterplay?”
SotM kb can be countered with stab and then moving out of the way of the attack. It’s not unblockable either.
UA has some possibly unintentional counters because of pathing issues but it can also be blocked and/or evaded. I’m actually surprised that stealth screws up the UA channel because a lot of channeled skills will track a target through stealth.
Every time I see a thread demanding solo q come back because of premades all I can think about is how the REAL esport games DO NOT have a solo q in them.
Solo Q demands are exactly the effect of what OP is talking about. People need to realize that the matching algorithm will match you against tougher and tougher opponents if you keep winning to try and force a 50% win rate LIKE ALL REAL ESPORT TITLES DO AS WELL.
Not sure what it is about GW2 that people think they are special snowflakes in everything but it really needs to stop.
I don’t know if you realize it but you’ve presented what I consider to be one of the best arguments FOR the return of solo queue.
They don’t seem to want to bring solo q back so I think you’re out of luck unfortunately.
This doesn’t mean that people who blame their team are never right.
Yes but I hope that after a few weeks most of the teams will have climbed the ladder far enough that solo queue players won’t have to face them very often. Perhaps I’m being too optimistic though.
eh, I only play in premades so idgaf about random arenas. playing a team game solo is just stupid and robs you of so much of the experience.
I don’t think it’s stupid. Solo queue used to be a really fun experience for myself and a lot of players. You may not enjoy playing without a set team but there’s a lot of people who do.
@Israel
Keeping minstrel would actually speed up games in the long run. By taking that one extreme support or bunker build you can then run a much glassier setup. 1 minstrel 3 zerk and 1 bruiser would become a viable comp, which results in much more burst play and exciting res situations that get the audience on the edge of their seat. You are complaining about slow boring games, which is exactly what the cele meta produces. Noone wants to watch a bunch of wet noodles flopping arond
I’m not particularly fond of cele either but if they’re willing to remove one amulet maybe they’re willing to remove another.
It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.
Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.
It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?
What this is going to dissolve into is tanky as kitten scrapper builds, marauder DH, carrion/celestial/soldier reapers, soldier/maruder revenents, etc. Meaning every team will be just about the same with very little creative differences. Trust me when I say it was even more boring to watch 2eles/mes teef/sig necro as basically every comp then watch minstrel groups fight.
If you guys started beating Abjured with a minstrel druid/guard bunker comp then everyone would start running that comp.
If Abjured decides to run double revenant then I’m sure lots of teams will be running double revenant within the month.
People are always going to copy teams like Radioactive and Abjured. Low/mid tier players are always going to try to emulate the players above them that they respect. It makes sense to try to learn from one’s betters.
I can tell that playing a really tanky support bunker guard means a lot to you but do you really not have fun playing Marauder DH?
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It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.
Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.
It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?
So what are you saying? Because you think a certain style of game play is boring certain builds are going right out the window? I guess if I want to play guardian i have to play Dragon Hunter? That’s your opinion not everyones.
What I’m saying is that I think Chaith was right and that Minstrel amulet made for a more boring and frustrating viewing/playing experience.
You can play whatever you want but I think Dragon Hunter is a lot of fun to play.
Or they could consider going the other way and get rid of cele.
It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.
Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.
It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?
Adaptive Armor was def over performing. It was probably the only valuable trait in the line currently.
The HGH nerf however is totally uncalled for. I’m really curious why I can stack Might faster and higher with my Reaper while just using Siphoned Power and Reaper’s Might and no other Might stacking attributes of any kind and has yet to be nerfed, but my pure Might stacking HGH build with multiple traits, runes and skills dedicated to stacking Might can’t keep pace and is somehow deemed to be over performing . Would love an answer on that.
Perhaps they want Reapers to be able to stack might better than Scrapper but give Scrappers more access to things like Protection.
Because as you point out the arguments are going to inescapably be premised on some sort of arbitrary value judgement. The only opinion that ultimately matters is that of the devs and whilst they may decide to listen to the limited forum feedback they get they also have the power to completely ignore it and decide to do whatever they think is best.
It seems to me to be utterly pointless to engage in opinion debates and that the only intelligent strategy for feedback is “I don’t like this” or “I like this.”
Yes please bring back solo queue. I think it’s important to remember that the old solo queue did not have the current map selection feature and included the possibility of getting the old awful Skyhammer map and Spirit Watch. I think a lot of people queued team queue just to avoid those maps.
It’s impossible to know what the queue times will be but I’m willing to accept the possibility of longer queue times if it means I get to play Solo Queue again.
No thanks. Solo Queue was just a glorified hotjoin. This is a team game. If you can’t make the effort to form a team for whatever reason, you should be at a disadvantage against those that did put in the work and effort to get a team together.
What you should instead petition for is 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 arenas if you’re looking to show off your individual skill. 5v5 matches are not the place for that.
1.) solo queue was a team game just like team queue was. The teams were just randomly formed in solo queue.
2.) it doesn’t follow that because the game is designed as a team contest that premade teams should be given an unfair advantage against randomly formed ones. It’s possible to match random teams against other random teams and premade teams against other premade teams.
3.) you seem to categorize a 2s or 3s arena team as “not a team.” Why?
Everyone who has pvp’d has had it happen to them. They get an opponent into downed state, they pop a safety stomp cd to ensure the stomp and begin the stomp channel only to have it fail because their target gets stealthed midcast.
I personally find this feature to be incredibly frustrating and also wildly inconsistent with the way all the other channeled skills seem to work in this game. A midcast stealth does not seem to cause any other channeled skill in the game to miss so why does it cause the stomp channel to miss?
Does anyone else find this game logic inconsistency troubling? I can’t be the only person who gets kittened when a stomp channel misses because of some last second stealth going off despite the fact that every other channel seems to land through stealth.
Will this ever be changed?
I would play pvp again if they brought back solo queue.
They could just introduce WvW’s prestige rank structure into sPvP to give sPvP ranks a constant incremental sense of progression once a player hits 80. So you could work to Silver Legendary Champion, Gold Legendary Champion while you’re also working on getting all 8 titles and eventually Champion Brawler.
Sounds good to me.
There’s no way to know how many people quit strictly because of that one change.
Can just get exotic zerk for pve I went full ascended celestial for WvW and I’ve found it to be good for both roaming type play and zerging which is nice.
Adrenaline changes hurt too. Same with Cleansing ire changes (only cleanse if you land).
Absolutely I agree. However the hambow build wasn’t by default overly reliant on front-loaded damage, it’s entirely possible to play the same weapon set as a sturdy nodefighter. Having to be in the fight for a little while might be tougher for a zerk amulet hambow but I think soldier/cele hambow can handle it just fine, particularly running three stances. The cleansing ire changes are definitely a big deal but it was really easy to reliably land the old Combustive Shot. One strike of adrenaline used to be enough to cover a very large area. Now the meta has shifted more towards having highly mobile “bruiser” builds covering as nodefighters and this definitely presents a challenge for hambow due to a distinct lack of mobility but I still feel like the nerfs prior to the adrenaline/cleansing ire changes when taken in aggregate were a much bigger hit to the build than the adrenaline/cleansing ire changes would’ve been by themselves.
But one of, if not the biggest hits to hambow was moving Unsuspecting Foe out of adept tier and then afterwards the toning down to combustive shot, earthshaker and burst mastery.
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The whole premise of the thread rests on the assumption that the devs have some objective way to measure how difficult a class is to play. I don’t think they do.
I think it has more to do with community feedback than anything. People cried about warrior for a long time so eventually the devs made changes to the class.
Moral of the story: if you cry loud enough for long enough the devs might actually listen to you.
It’s nice to have but it’s not necessary.
He’s mechanically unimpressive but the build is smart conceptually because it takes full advantage of food heal/shout heals/healing signet/adrenal health/celestial (not sure) synergy.
Honestly I like the concept.
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depends on your MMR i would think
i would wager once you reach a certain MMR youre much more likely to be matched against premades then solos
So do we know what that MMR cutoff point is and how much is “much more?”
Also what about partial premades? Am I statistically more likely to face a 2 man premade than a 3 man premade?
So what are the odds that I queue solo (which is what I almost always do) and I get placed against another team entirely composed of solos?
@ Israel Hmm. I will admit that I hadn’t realised how judgemental the last half of that post sounded. For that I will apologize. It wasn’t my intention upon writing it but then…hindsight is 20/20 after all.
So your right. I did state far more that just my opinion in that post. Again. my fault there. It was not my intention.
I accept your apology.
However you have very much implied that things should be the way YOU feel they should. For little more reason than that you personally disagree with the base concept of premade vs solo quers. I will say that you have the right to that opinion.
But I wish you would back it up with more than moral based reasons and more opinions.
Well yes I think it’s wrong to match premades against solos on principle. There isn’t any amount of data that could prove or disprove that value statement. It would be like me trying to prove that swiss cheese is objectively more delicious than cheddar or something, it’s just a matter of personal preference. So you either agree with me that it’s wrong on principle or you don’t.
Sorry, but when you’re presented with your match history and shown that you’ve had a statistically insignificant number of bad matchups, only to dismiss it with “nobody cares about the stats”, then you’re signalling that you’re not actually interested in constructive debate, and you’ve earned ad hominem attacks.
Ok so two things:
1. That never happened. I was never shown my match history and I’ve not said once “nobody cares about the stats” so you appear to be confused.
2. Statistical significance is a matter of opinion. Just because something isn’t significant to you doesn’t mean it’s objectively insignificant.
Its not a no true PvPer argument.
Well it definitely appears to be worded as a disparagement to my values and a challenge to my pvper cred or whatever.
“Instead of blaming the matchmaking and crying about how it’s somehow morally wrong. Why not actually act like a PvPer…I expect that kind of “BUT IT’S NOT FAIR” from PvErs…not someone supposedly looking for a challenge."
So the first part dismisses everything I’ve said as "crying, " the second part implies that I’m not acting like a PvPer but rather a PvEr and that caring about fairness means I’m not looking for a challenge.
Its simply a case of not understanding why you are upset. I just cant grasp it.
Ok so why not just admit in the first place that you don’t understand? What is it that you’re unclear on?
I guess theres a fundamental difference in how we approach games what we we want in them.
Maybe.
All I did was state my opinion on the matter.
You did more than that.
I wont judge as I don’t have the right to judge how another person plays a video game.
But that’s exactly what you just did.
Im mostly trying to make you realize that your view is only one way of looking at it. And that there are MANY that view it in a completely different light.
I’m aware of that and I’ve never stated that my values are universal.
I will say this though. Id rather lose because the enemy team was a premade that played well than because they had one more build specifically designed to abusing the old solo que system than we did.
Ok.
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Posts like this just reek of such ridiculous entitlement it’s surprising that the devs even bother responding on the forum. You sound like you literally have your fingers in your ears and you’re screaming at the top of your lungs to prevent anything that isn’t about you getting your way from reaching your brain.
Ad hom.
TL:DR ; As a pvper I cant see how your not looking FORWARD to fighting opponents stronger than you with a better team composition than you. Theres more opportunity to learn against a well built grp. Even if they have only played together for a day. Instead of blaming the matchmaking and crying about how its somehow morally wrong. Why not actually act like a PvPer and use it to get better.
I expect that kind of “BUT ITS NOT FAIR” from PvErs that get one shotted by a mechanic that is actually difficult to deal with for once. Not someone supposedly looking for a challenge.
So now we get the No True PvPer argument.
Im sorry i solo que alot and one of the biggest things for me and a competitor is the challenge. I dont expect to win every match and i dont expect every match to be equal.
I don’t expect to win every match but I do expect an effort to be made for every single match to be as fair as conceivably possible at the outset.
Many times when playing a competitive sport you go up against a player at your height,size and athleticism but they seem to be a little better. How am i as a competitor not except this challenge?
What?
Your complaining about pre-mades. Im sorry but not all pre-mades are good. ive fought many guild groups and pre-made teams and ive have beaten alot of them.
I think you’re totally missing my point. This isn’t really about winning and losing. It’s just as unpleasant to win in a premade versus pugs as it is to lose as a pug versus a premade.
You once again bring up your feelings saying “Even one match of premade vs. pugs is one too many if you ask me”.
That’s not a statement of a feeling but rather a statement of a moral principle. One is too many. It should not ever be allowed to happen, regardless of the outcome.
That quote right there is everything wrong with a competitive setting. Im sorry you feel that way, i really am. I for one will never understand your mindset. Ive played literally thousands of ranked games and there has never been a time where i said man im constantly getting crushed. Ive literally had a 50% win rate no matter what area i have qued into.
Irrelevant.
The reason you found nothing i said valid is because you refuse to look outside your own box. If you are constantly losing badly why not take a second and go practice? Work on a different build thats more to comfort ability? I have literally carried teams by winning a 1 vs 1 on home running to far winning the 1 vs 1 there and holding that spot vs 2 for enough time for the 4 vs 3 at mid to win so i can spawn and protect home. Know one knows your level but you and ill im saying is it sounds like you want to be catered to without excepting any form of responsibility in a competitive situation.
You’re so focused on winning and losing but it doesn’t matter to me who wins or loses. What matters to me is that the games have a significant chance of being totally unfair to begin with and that we’re supposed to accept this as necessary. Moreover there doesn’t appear to be any incremental progression between getting a disadvantaged match versus getting an advantaged one. It’s totally haphazard and that’s also unacceptable.
This is also something of a strawman as I have never said that I’ve always lost against premades or that I always queue solo.
You dont know what im talking about? Seriously?
Justin is seriously feeding you info saying out of 67 matches only 5 were pre-made vs pugs and the guy won 2. Yet you still complain, Being someone who has always been ranked in both solo and team que i find it funny because the best players in solo que back then were the exact same players in the top of team ques.
Seriously you dont get where im coming from?
No I really don’t. Even one match of premade vs. pugs is one too many if you ask me. I don’t see why anyone would accept a non zero probability of a premade being matched up against a pug team.
Just because completely equal matches are difficult to accomplish doesn’t mean anyone should accept this nonsense.
I couldn’t find anything in the rest of your rant that seemed to me to be a valid point so I will not be responding to any of it.