But these people do this stuff for a living, they already have 10 years experience at making online games, so you gotta give them a bit of credit that they actually looked at the situation and made an evidence-based decision when they cut solo queue. Can they please everyone? Of course not. But I think they made the choice that will lead to the fewest number of people getting frustrated and quitting pvp completely.
I have very little faith in their ability to interpret their data properly but regardless of their philosophy, I’m done with PvP because of the decision to remove Solo Arena. I don’t expect them to care about people quitting either way because I imagine most of their cash shop sales are generated by PvE fluff. I’ll continue to play the parts of the game that I can still enjoy but I will not put any more time into PvP as it’s just not fun for me. My advice to anyone who doesn’t like the current pvp system is to quit playing it and instead try to find other parts of the game that are still potentially enjoyable for them.
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I had 4v5 games but I always figured that was more a result of there being no “ready up” feature. I think a lot of people would queue with the intention of playing but then they’d afk or something and miss the pop. People would definitely leave games from time to time but usually it was 4v5 at the start.
Verbal abuse will happen. My recommendation is to either yell back or block them but try not to let them get under your skin too much because that’s probably why they’re doing it in the first place.
I don’t know how to measure everyone else’s enjoyment without some kind of comprehensive polling system. I can only really speak about mine and I enjoy this new setup much less than I enjoyed the old one. That being said I have a hard time believing that new players are having an easier time getting started but really I wouldn’t know.
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I think 2v2 and 3v3 DM could be fun but I’d prefer them to not be default single elimination. I actually liked Wildstar’s system where each team got an allotment of respawns.
Having respawns promotes unnecessary snowballing and it prolongs the match. The idea behind no respawn dm is that it’s quick, it’s fast, and it promotes more thinking than “Lets zerg this guy and if we fail, lets try something else”. If you kill your opponents once you are rewarded with a win, and you move on with your life.
Countless
Yeah I get that single death would make for quicker matches but I would still personally prefer respawns.
As someone who used to love doing Solo Arena my advice to the OP is simply to stop doing PvP until they reintroduce a proper Solo Arena game mode again.
Yeah, cause if EVERYONE who used to do solo queue quit we would really miss all 200 of you! I don’t think the pvp population would EVER recover from such a huge hit! :p
they didn’t consult the players before they removed Solo Arena what makes you think they’re going to care what we think now?
Well… they didn’t consult the players who played solo arena, because, like I said above there were too few people playing it! It was a toxic place full of abusive people and afkers. Newbies would come out of hotjoin and join solo arena and then quit pvp completely because their own teammates would start flaming them before the match even started! That there were a few people who enjoyed it like pigs rolling in muck is irrelevant: the number of players who had terrible experiences there was a lot bigger, and consideration for them is therefore weighed more heavily in the developers’ minds.
I personally didn’t mind solo queue. I never played there (except when I once decided to see how high I could get using a nooby minionmancer build, so I played it 2 weeks in a row, got to 265 and immediately went back to team queue), but I was ok with the fact that it existed. It was nice to have a place where all the ragequitters, AFKers, and abusive flamers went. It purged team queue and made it a nicer place. But the fact is when a new player wandered into it by accident, they would have a terrible experience, and probably assume that, oh if solo is like that, then team arena, which is probably an even more competitive environment cause you get all the pro premades there, must be even worse, so there’s NO WAY I’m going in there! As you can imagine, from a developer’s point of view it’s suicide to have an environment like that be their players’ introduction to pvp, so it had to go. It was an unpleasant, elitist, dysfunctional place, full of horrible, abusive people. Reintroducing all those people back into the general population makes the game a tiny little bit worse, but thankfully they’re so spread out we hardly notice them, and now that the option to join solo arena doesn’t exist, there’s no risk of a newbie accidentally queueing for it and thereby unknowingly dive into a pool of toxic sludge and human manure.
I don’t expect quitting to make a difference for any pvp game mode because there’s not many pvpers anyways. They could probably scrap pvp entirely and it would hardly make a difference. But they didn’t ask us then why would they care what we think now?
I quit because I couldn’t do what I enjoyed doing anymore so I stopped doing pvp altogether. I suggest that he do the same thing if he’s no longer having fun. It’s a simpler solution than complaining to some dev who posts here a lot.
And I’m sorry you had a bad Solo Arena experience, my experience was mostly positive.
I think 2v2 and 3v3 DM could be fun but I’d prefer them to not be default single death elimination. I actually liked Wildstar’s system where each team got an allotment of respawns. I can’t remember the exact number but I believe it was between 3-5 per team for 2v2.
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Entertaining video. It looked to me like you both gave fair notice to each other at the beginning of each fight so I don’t see how it matters whether it’s an “r” or a bow.
Were there any agreed upon rules preceding these contests?
I agree, soloq is fairly frustrating atm. I played over 150 games of soloq this off-season because I was curious how it would play out. It was a lot more frustrating than the old system. Getting matched against premades, especially when they are well known players isn’t fun, particularly when players on my team aren’t up to par.
I did have better luck during off hours, and the game was still enjoyable. However, I just started to avoid primetime and popular hours all together because it was rather frustrating.
Good on you for sticking with it for so long. I think I only played maybe 60ish games before I decided it just wasn’t much fun for me anymore. The last straw for me was getting Karmy’s full 5 man team 4 times in a row with people I didn’t even recognize on my team.
2015-01-30 19:08:08.000 Ranked 1112 5 10.7800 Defeat 132 500 -226.0 8.0
10.7% chance of winning…wtf? Why even start the match.
These sort of matches happen most often due to fail-safes we have in place to keep queue times low. I would guess the premade team had to wait around 8 minutes to get that match, and they didn’t like it either.
I’ll continue to work to make these sort of matches happen less often. I don’t think we’ll find a comprehensive fix without sacrificing queue times though.
Anyway to allow us to know our chance of winning before the match starts?
I would like to quit while I’m behind and get it over with as quickly as possible.
There should definitely be a resign option but it took two years to get “match ready” so I won’t be holding my breath.
As someone who used to love doing Solo Arena my advice to the OP is simply to stop doing PvP until they reintroduce a proper Solo Arena game mode again. If they never do then never go back. You’ll save yourself a lot of frustration. I played the unranked/ranked arena setup for a while after the patch and I came to the realization that I was no longer having fun like I did with Solo Arena so I quit. I now just do WvW and sometimes the PvE. I’ve been having fun again. Simple solution, give it a try.
EDIT: Complaining to the one dev who posts here isn’t going to change things, they didn’t consult the players before they removed Solo Arena what makes you think they’re going to care what we think now?
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Cele build damage output will be lower but overall disappointingly minimal changes particularly considering the time it’s taken to implement them.
pvp needs more players not bans. they’re patching it. put away the kitten pitchforks people.
The problem is that this has become a rather disappointing trend. No one seems to fear abusing exploits/bugs because no ones ever gets banned for using them, not even the people at the top who use them in official tournaments.
My experience has been that Anet generally takes a pretty lax stance against bug abuse/exploits unless they have directly translated into economic gain.
Unfortunately I do not expect to see any bans or suspensions.
I like the match ready and map selection features but I really want solo q back.
Just bring back solo q/team q
Well done this has always been a goal of mine.
I enjoyed the video. I think that you’re using the word ‘efficiency’ but that conceptually you’re talking about ‘synergy.’
For instance you point out the enormous synergy between celestial amulet stats and d/d ele, nade/kit/rifle engi and sw/lb warr damage because all three builds have a combination of power and condi damage built into their attacks. They also have access to a lot of soft cc and cover conditions (blind, chill, vuln, immob etc) making the bleeds, burns and poison hard to consistently cleanse.
Celestial amulet also simultaneously boosts the effectiveness of water attunement/signet of restoration, healing turret and shout heals/healing signet giving these builds ample sustainability as well as damage, hence “bruisers.”
You also point out the tremendous synergy between battle sigil and might stacking runes like hoelbrak and strength. You point out that not all classes can take equal advantage of might stacking though which suggests an imbalance.
I personally think we can look at every major meta build from the perspective of identifying synergy and find a pattern.
The strongest builds are the ones that are able to make the most of the synergies between their respective classes’ traits and skills and the game’s amulet/rune/sigil setup.
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I don’t know if Anet has said anything about it but I have a strong feeling it’s not intended so I don’t use it.
Sounds good to me. I’ve never used this on my ele because I see it as an exploit.
Maybe they should think about reducing the cd on portal and/or making it ground targeted like flesh wurm.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. I would prefer to have the solo q/team q split reinstated.
I also really like the idea of keeping winning teams together until they lose.
No, there is just not enough active people to consider it competitive.
Even if you do fix the problems of people leaving/afking, freaking rabbits on the same team as sharks, phoenixes and dragon ranks, Skyhammer, I doubt it’d bring back the competitive players.
Remove it and focus on improving TeamQ.
So what if it’s not considered competitive?
It’s still a fun way to play arenas because you don’t have to have a team.
So let me get this straight.
You did some Solo Arena. You won some games. You got on the leaderboards. You felt it was too easy therefore Solo Arena is not competitive enough for you. Therefore you think it should be removed from the game?
I dunno I think warrior is still totally viable.
I think it’s absolutely acceptable but it rarely happens because it’s hard to sustain.
A lot of people are playing builds that can rotate in and out of fights quickly and/or do enormous damage off point and the more traditional warrior builds like hambow just can’t do either very well.
It’s not that hambow can’t do either very well, warrior as a whole class, can not do that well compare to other classes. thats why hambow stood up and become the prime build.
I don’t think this sort of clarification is necessary. When we’re talking about balance we’re talking about comparing all possible builds for all classes.
I agree game balancing should be done solely based on soloq….I just cant.
There are similar trends in Team Arena, at least from what I saw in the last tournament. More engis and eles, less warriors.
I don’t think skill cap has anything to do with it.
My personal experience has been that the prevalence of the common meta engi/ele builds along with the absence of the more traditional bunker guards have made warrior less valuable in teamfight situations where warrior used to be able to dominate.
A lot of people are playing builds that can rotate in and out of fights quickly and/or do enormous damage off point and the more traditional warrior builds like hambow just can’t do either very well.
I still play warrior but I’ve had to switch builds more often than I used to.
You can’t “learn” what to do in tpvp, every match is different…you need to “learn” how to adapt to a specific match…and that is not something you can just read around and you’ll be ready to go, it’s called experience and you can only get that after playing a ton of games looking at both your and team’s mistakes, why did we lose the opening midfight? Maybe we should leave a necro on close if they send engi crossing? Is it better to open with 2 ppl close to secure it from stealth cross first, taking some risks on mid if they stealth open with 4 there or just 1-4 and backupping close if needed? Do you trust your close point defender enough to leave him 1v1 being sure he’s not gonna die ending up with 2 caps for them? You need to learn how to answer questions like those, every match, in a couple of seconds according to how the enemy team is moving…if they cross with 2 ppl…are you gonna stay or just disengage going for the other two points? Is their thief in teamfight and you can leave close or he’s nowhere to be seen and you are maybe gonna be decapped as soon as you step out of point?
It’s not just like reading a book a learning things…it’s way more than that.
You don’t think that there are any solid theoretical answers to those questions?
If a WvW roamer comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well. I had to do all that and more when making the transition and honestly I feel like I still have a lot of room for improvement. It can also be tremendously helpful to try to find a mentor. #thankshiba
If WvW players aren’t willing to do the work to make the transition then they’re going to struggle just like anyone else. Being able to win fights is only one part of the game in sPvP.
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I also think they should try to add some element of counterplay to fresh air ele burst. They modified Skull Crack and Pin Down to give people a chance to see it coming and dodge I don’t see why they couldn’t try to do something similar for fresh air.
I dunno I personally hate Skyhammer and I have hated it since I first played it. I wish they’d remove it from arenas.
When I first started at launch I also focused more on WvW. It wasn’t necessarily because I didn’t like sPvP but more because I was just having so much fun in WvW. So I learned a lot about class mechanics and about how to kill people but when I started to focus more on tPvP I found that my rotations were usually wrong. I think the arena game is firstly about rotations and secondly about fights and so players making the transition from WvW will probably all struggle as I did. Maybe that’s what sPvP veterans are really trying to say.
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Warriors are easy to play for a number of reasons, not just combustive shot. Warriors have a lot of features rolled into streamlined easily synergized packages. The rotations for every meta build are simple but effective making it easy for anyone to pick up warrior and be effective. The weapons are all pretty well designed making it possible to switch things in and out while still maintaining an overall theme. Warriors don’t have to trade away tankiness and/or mobility for damage the way that some other classes do. There are a lot of good utilities to choose from and they also synergize well with almost any conceivable build. Warriors have the best access to stability (my personal favorite boon) in the game. Current warrior mechanics/design are also well suited to take full advantage of the latest changes to the game. Sigil of intelligence/battle + strength runes fit right into how warriors are designed to function. I could go on.
Personally I don’t think warrior should be nerfed I think it should serve as the template for Anet for how to continue to model the other classes. Everything should be this easy and satisfying to play.
I think that JQ and TC have (perhaps unintentionally) created the new wvw seasons meta.
I think that in future seasons it will make sense for server leaders from the strongest servers to have pre-arranged agreements about who will win and who will lose. First and second place will be decided before the season even begins and everyone else will just fight for the lower placements.
That way people from the strongest servers can all come together and pick a server they don’t like and grief them hardcore the entire season to make sure that not only do they not win but that they never even have a hope of winning. Undoubtedly people with prior knowledge of these agreements will want to leave the server slated to lose which will also have the bonus of destroying the servers nobody likes.
It’s really quite brilliant I just want to know which server is preset to win next time so I can get all the tickets.
Surprised to see people from JQ saying Cloudfly of all people. He’s always good for a laugh though.
My favorite commander is Sephiroth Wing from LP. I only log into WvW to follow him and I log out once he’s done commanding.
I actually really enjoyed this video.
I’ve seen porting necro hijinks in spvp/tpvp but I rarely see people bring it into WvW.
Good stuff.
I agree that dragon should go to the 70+ players. I would be fine just getting bumped up to shark.
I’m not one to look a gift horse in the mouth but I never really expected this.
I would’ve been cool with getting bumped up 10 levels. I like the shark finisher.
I know that guys like OE and Super Mang have spent more time grinding tpvp than I have it would make sense to see them at dragon before anyone else.
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Well Hiba’s mostly left the game, he still logs in every now and then but hardly plays and I think Sanny has been playing ESO a lot. I decided to leave RIOT after Hiba quit since there wasn’t anyone left for me to play with. I’m still down for tPvP but I’ve yet to find a new team.
If you faced RIOT’s PST crew then you faced RIOT proper. As I recall the original challenge was to the entire guild.
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I play hambow warrior and I’ve been running into this build a lot lately. I disagree that the condition pressure is comparable to necro but I have found that it is indeed a very difficult matchup 1v1 for hambow. I’ve noticed that in team fights or 2v2s/3v3s that this type of warrior is somewhat easier to train down than most other warriors because of the lack of personal stability. This build carries no hard CC only soft CC in the form of immob and its damage isn’t as spiky and cleavy as hambow so it brings less for downed state management and without personal stability it has some trouble getting stomps and resses.
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Speaking from personal experience, I think the answer is definitely yes.
I would say that in terms of mechanical skill, I’ve made much bigger improvements from doing spvp/tpvp than by doing WvW.
WvW has its own meta though. There are a lot more builds and a lot of them are just as cheesy as the builds one regularly encounters in spvp/tpvp. The large scale fights require a skill set (if that’s what you want to call it) that can really only be developed by doing large scale fights.
I’m gonna try this build out at some point. I guess this would be best used as a mid fight support build or maybe a far point decapper depending on enemy comp.
Logi called it a “5v5 GvG” in his challenge. This would suggest a challenge to the entire guild, not just the four members in the video. Hiba, Caed, Zombify and Tany were a part of RIOT long before this ever happened. They have just as much a right to participate as anyone else in RIOT.
We will use whomever we want. Deal with it.
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We haven’t suddenly recruited anybody.
I don’t find the title misleading. I’ve played numerous MMOs and every one of them has featured objective based play in their player versus player format. “PvP” isn’t synonymous with “deathmatch” in the MMO industry.
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We’re also in an awkward situation with timezones right now.
We’re taking this seriously though.
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