Guild Wars 2

dominik.9721:

@Nick
Btw warriors always have been in a “supporter” – and “assist” – role, he never has been good in bursting, not even in 2012 with frenzy and 100b, people just didn’t know it back then.

Uhhh no. Back when leg specialist had no icd, sword still had hamstring, and quickness was stronger + their servers didnt suck so bulls charge landed properly, during those times warrior was one of the top burst classes.

It had nothing to do with people having to l2play, it was simply strong. You could have all the strongest adrenaline based traits in a single spec, HB could hit very high and very fast, and the warrior had the tools to set this burst up by outplaying their opponent. It was very viable.

Chaith.8256:

You’re the guy who asked what Arenanet was doing to Slick Shoes so that it won’t remove 10 stacks of stability in a second right?

Look at how it works now, have you seen Slick Shoes proc a knockdown on an enemy without stability more than 3 times? It’s not proccing 10 times a second while the person is knocked down. That would look hilarious. Just no.

I’m sure you can expend 3 stacks of stability if you pop a stability and literally run in and out of the warding effect, but proccing 10 times a second simply isn’t how it works.

I think you are a little confused. You are correct in saying that slick shoes cannot knock down a player that is already knocked down, which is why 3 times is the limit. But what if the game counts the knockdown, but the player isnt knocked down, so they are now eligible to eat the CC again. Thats the state you will be in if you have 10 stacks of stability, slick shoes will proc but you arent knocked down, so it can proc again, and again repeatedly.

Now as you said, the ranger trait does not reliably get you out of slick shoes, the question is, with what consistency can you escape slick shoes that is placed around you using this ranger trait? If the answer is that you cannot escape it at all, then it is potentially possible to lose several stacks of stability instantly to slick shoes.

Unless you know exactly what the pulse rate of slick shoes is, then that number sheds some light on the discussion. Without that number you cannot prove anything since we do not have the in game tools to test it yet.

Please…. split the queues. This is absurd, if I want to play stronghold I dont want to gamble on the chance to play what I want.

How can teams even practice for a game mode if they cant even pick which to play. If a team has 2 hours on a given night and wants to practice stronghold but gets conquest each time then whats the point… 2h wasted.

Projections of Q3 aside, as stated april 28th is the 10th anniversary of GW1. On top of that, most game releases happen on a tuesday (I dont know why, just is, I am sure theres a sale or marketing reason), and april 28th is a tuesday.

Its funny how GW1 gvg was more inaccessible due to restrictive compositions and guild requirement, and yet the number of guilds (or “teams”) dwarfes anything GW2 has ever come close to in terms of pvp activity.

Its better to focus on a good game mode than repeatedly kitten things for the sake of accessibility, Anet proved that from GW1 to GW2.

But for all intents and purposes of GW2s pvp population atm perhaps 5v5 is optimal, still hoping for 8v8.

Terrorsquad.2349:

d) Will there also be an Unranked Arena Leaderboard?

Ima let you think about this one.

Who from SUP/CRY are playing?

yaseer.2309:

Jackie.1829:

I played EU since game launch while living in Canada. I played it both as a follower and as a commander of VoTF. To fall back now on this ping excuse is a cop out, and frankly an insult to those of us who maintained a very high level of play experiencing what you consider an unplayable state of the game, this applies to the Australians who play on NA and put up a good performance.

You got 1 pushed and blame ping? Last I checked I have never been 1 pushed with that same ping, not even against RG, not even close. TA got outplayed and Agg and NS were better guilds, theres not much more to it.

So grats to NA, took a while but you finally got there, the fanboys might not admit to the high level of play we saw this week, but the smarter players know better.

Hypocrite much. I recall from the SOS forum chat, VOTF made the exact same excuses about lag when losing 16-0 to RG. Which made it laughable since you both played on US servers. Then it was “we never really came to gvg RG”, when on the chat prior you had said this was the only reason you went SOS.

Shame you talk wise words but yourself and VOTF never practiced what your preaching. Sounds like you should drink some of your own coolaid.

1 Push you say.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwVRdCYL4ng&feature=youtu.be&t=5m10s

Erm I never blamed lag back then? Nor did I ever discuss anything about it on SoS forums? Unless you can link a screenshot of me blaming lag?

That gvg was done with 3 of our core members at a whim of Sacrx to have a fair match. If players continue to wish to remember that I dont mind at all, but everybody who has fought against VoTF is well aware that none of our core were present. Even our leader Aneu only showed up for the last 3 matches and only played in 2. You think we would do a serious gvg without our main commander? It doesnt matter, the 8-5 afterwards showed that the 16-0 was nothing relevant.

I was still never 1 pushed in any of those GvGs, even with culling and them using a blind spot veil so that nothing would render ever. I also played full glass cannon and still survived it. Ping is no excuse, I play exactly what I preach.

And if you really think we came to only gvg RG (which we also never said anywhere) then why did we stay 2 months after that? We actually came to fight against guilds we had previous rivalries with since IoJ times to see where we stacked up to compared to previous. We didnt pull a TA and come for a week, we stayed 2 months. I think you are fabricating a lot of ideas in your head of what you think my guild did when its nowhere close. In fact, considering I played tpvp competitively in EU at the time, it would only make sense if I only came to fight RG I would go back when they did so I could also play tpvp and get rewards, why would I sacrifice that if not because I had other reasons to go to NA?

I played EU since game launch while living in Canada. I played it both as a follower and as a commander of VoTF. To fall back now on this ping excuse is a cop out, and frankly an insult to those of us who maintained a very high level of play experiencing what you consider an unplayable state of the game, this applies to the Australians who play on NA and put up a good performance.

You got 1 pushed and blame ping? Last I checked I have never been 1 pushed with that same ping, not even against RG, not even close. TA got outplayed and Agg and NS were better guilds, theres not much more to it.

So grats to NA, took a while but you finally got there, the fanboys might not admit to the high level of play we saw this week, but the smarter players know better.

Lol, you know there is nothing new here right? the idea of metrics governing choices for development is in every game development studio.

The forums are here so Anet can take the feedback that suits them best considering whatever the situation is with their development/resources/financial situation. These philosophical arguments of communication can go in circles forever, a conclusion or straight answer can never be delivered, cause guess what… you dont work at Anet do you?

I am not siding with Anet on this, since my Wildstar NDA is now dropped, I can attest to the fact that it is no different there and metrics>feedback, forum community is not large enough to be considered bla bla. Ive also been testing TESO for a year so I suppose same thing there? Balance changes go through which completely oppose all reason or forum comments, features which are staple to MMOs dont get made (hi guild tags?).

So what is my point? Well yea, sure, maybe you “owned” Anet with this most important epiphany, but the reality is none of this is nothing new, and since you will never get the reasoning for decisions made then no amount of thread baiting and forum warring will ever reach you to a conclusion. At least not on these forums, the devs are never going to communicate the answers you want since thats their jobs on the line.

Coast.5162:

So it took like 1 year for gw2to have a smaller pvp than gw 1 currently has after 8+ years of neglection, such quality.

Not even a year When I played paid tournaments there were only like 10 teams worth competing against. This game never even started, at no point during its lifespan has GW2 ever been competitive nor will it be competitive. At least not in the capacity the devs envisioned or what they had in GW1.

It did alright for an MMO I suppose. But we all know the devs expected way more than just another generic MMO with mediocore pvp playerbase.

Twinny.9304:

Sorry my mistake on choosing the word “disbanded”, noticed lots of ur players in other guilds now and no longer see the VoTF tag around the server and when i asked one of them “whats up with VoTF these days?” he said most of em are playing a different game now.

Thats more a case of players repping different tags while playing WvW as votf is no longer in gw2 and we would not wish people to think we are. All those players remain within votf (except 2 who wanted to stay in gw2 permanently).

As far as current guilds, I am not sure whats going on with VII, I do hope to see a GD vs RG matchup, and look forward to other guilds stepping up.

Good. Exactly what I hoped would happen.

Maybe in the future people start wising up. We perpetuate our own problems, they announce some stupid reward and everybody hops into WvW, they look at their metrics and go “look WvW is alive and healthy, everybody has queues everywhere! no need to fix anything”.

And so month after month you get absolutely nothing of value, from paired match ups to random match ups to “the epic league” back to random match ups. A massive circle of fail and yet people still chase that carrot.

It is actually impressive. Kudos Anet, I would say you should at least have rewarded a few gems for when people make their next transfer for bad reasons, but that would be silly when they are so willing to pay full price anyways

gesho.9468:

remove hype, hugging, tournament backdrop and cameras (that is, leave pvp part of it) and you’ll realize you’ve seen just as exciting games in gw2 many times. have you gotten beaten at 498 points by enemy rushing to the boss? or 499-499 with three contested points being settled on two downed states throwing junk at each other?

Yea, cause throwing junk at each other to win a match is the epitome of big plays. Hey, dw, you cant understand what you cannot do. Ignorance is bliss.

But if you really understand tpvp, you know that every action executed is simply the most logical thing to do. 450-250? Okay you know you need to contest all 3 nodes, there is no alternative. The node play is always straight forward, either you are better at the combat so you win, or you are worse so you lose. Sometimes a team is tactically better but usually its straight forward.

So yes, while I am sure GW2 tpvp games have come “close” before and been “tense” that was not what I was pointing out. What I was pointing out was a big play, a display of intelligence and execution that turns around a match entirely. Something you will never get in tpvp, even if a player wins a 1v2 to secure a match, that wasnt “intelligent” it was just better combat execution. There is a significant difference between being smart and being good. To play GW2 you do not need to be smart, just good at your class then run to the obvious nodes. There is little capacity to outsmart the enemy which is why by extension this games skill cap was not high enough to develop into esports.

gesho.9468:

it is, but is it good pvp?

(for LoL)

The day anybody makes such a big play in GW2 is the day we might be moving on towards “esports”. GW2 has some combat going for it but thats all, the game format is linear and boring with little creativity, the team play of GW2 is incredibly lacking and revolves more around solo players doing solo things in proximity of allies.

It is not just rewards people want, rewards are a very “MMO” player perspective approach. Pvpers play for fame and for competition. The only reward I need to play competitively is the recognition received for doing amazing things.

Yes, GW1 was rewarding for tournaments, but somewhere after getting 25,000 reward points I probably didnt care anymore, I continued to play for the high of winning a monthly tournament and the kitten that came along with it knowing that I competed against excellent players and outsmarted them.

GW2 simply needed a better game mode that was not conquest, the primary objective needed to be more complex with more freedom and not linear. It then needed proper tournament structure, because at the end of the day, if you are a top player and you care about ladder rank you are doing it wrong. Ladders never truly evaluate player skill, its all about the tournaments, but if a game does not even have tournaments then nobody cares about it from a competitive aspect. 3rd party tournaments are cool but they needed to be official and structured like in GW1, or the MOBA Seasons we often see. And finally, balance. Could have been significantly better, day in day out I read about how “they only won because they had more spam builds” and if this is the biggest analysis of a top tier PAX qualifier match, then the game is broken.

DevonCarver.5370:

We never said we couldn’t do it. We said we weren’t going to do it. There is a large difference between things that we decide to do for design reasons and thing that are technical constraints. This was the former and was never stated to be the latter.

Aha, so what you mean to tell me, is that you were wrong in your initial choice, after all that is the only way that statement may be interpreted. Dont sugarcoat it with “design reasons”. The individuals working on WvW development figured character bound was better for the game and they were wrong.

Well, thanks I suppose. I am not particularly satisfied as several guilds and players I enjoy fighting against are steadily leaving the game. If only you guys did things sooner and realized all the other mistakes. Is the only way you will improve the game properly via desperation? I mean, it is no coincidence that this change and the gvg arena come within the same quarter, you dont have to admit anything, it is clear gw2 is struggling. In the future you should consider giving us what we want from the start instead of doing it as a panic response after damage is done.

November 2013 marks the only time Anet has done anything for WvW that I appreciate aside from the removal of culling.

While I appreciate the change, it still leaves a bitter taste. This was asked months ago and it was said “we cannot do it”. Why do you lie? Was it because it wasnt possible technologically or because you believed it was the wrong thing to do?

I feel like technological limitations couldnt have been the main reason, if it werent feasible it wouldnt have happened. And if it was feasible, why did it take so many months? Something obviously made you change your mind, but please dont say “it was the feedback of the players that changed our minds” because thats a lie. This feedback was made available from day one when you even suggested the concept of it.

Its still too little too late, just like with the gvg arena. There comes a time where saying “well at least we got it in the end” just does not cut it. Fractals account bound? A year later? Or leaderboard corrections and tpvp rewards that are still to come when the tpvp side of the game is already dead. Rehashed t3 cultural armor in the gem store? 40% discount sale with a major PR campaign for free copies of the game. And now trying to throw WvW players a bone by announcing a function that is not yet complete because you simply feel the need to give us a carrot.

Something smells of panic. Too late bro, too late.

This is quite amusing. For esports!

Well Anet, when you make GW3, do try to listen to the good players a little more.

As someone who has played every single aspect of this game competitively, whether it be tpvp, wvw or dungeon speed clearing, I can honestly say everything is lacking.

The entire game from start to finish has nothing tailored towards skilled players. The only good thing about this game starts and ends with its combat, and even that is shallow compared to its prequel. The entire game is tailored towards casuals who are given incentives to log on daily to do living story and buy things off the gem store. Heck you can now stomp some krait mobs which is only even there so that people buy stomp finishers. We have like 4 development teams working on some living story while all the other teams are lacking on staff.

So no, its not just pvp players that are second class, its any player who is good at any aspect of the game. If you are hardcore in any way, then you are a second class citizen.

I feel sorry for the developers working on pvp. They have to go to work everyday to work on GW2 pvp, but deep down while they may never admit it, all this hard work to create something new, was a complete flop compared to the prequel that was easily the best MMO pvp launched to date. 8 years, almost 9 years later, and GW1 still has more competitive teams playing mATs than GW2 has competitive teams queing for tournaments.

R.I.P the days of complaining about izzys balance ideas, now we are lucky to get any pvp updates at all.

<3

Well, it has been an epic week.
Thanks to FIRE, Vcy, TUP and VII for the gvgs, HoB as well for the scrims. Each guild gave us some epic fights. And major props to VII for really being able to take advantage of their momentum when they got the upper hand.

Fighting AG has been one of the most pleasurable weeks for us, glad we transferred to silver league

Good luck to all the following weeks with your mathcups.

Draygo.9473:

You shouldn’t give additional points to outmanned servers in normal play as that will push up their glicko rating making it more likely that server will be matched against servers with higher populations.

Yea, all that glicko in the league system…..

In anycase it is all relative, the higher servers will also get more glicko from even higher servers all the way to 1. So the corresponding order of balance will remain the same, the only result is that matches will be closer because there is actually the potential to win. And if you can beat a higher pop server then no reason your glicko shouldnt be higher than theirs.

Not that this matters since we currently have a league system, so the only objective should be to make matchups more competitive which can only be done by buffing the outnumbered server unless we are going to magically balance all server pops (aka never happening).

- You may no longer waypoint back to spawn in WvW. Dying has a 10s respawn timer, this hinders zerg mobility, slower to respond to ninja forces.
– A capture circle is no longer reset when the lord is rezzed. Waypoint upgrade is removed, a buff that causes keep capture to take more time is added as a upgrade instead.
– You no longer see when you are outmanned. Outmanned servers gain 1 point per enemy player kill, the tally is calculated every 15 mins so people cannot calculate the outmanned buff.
– If you outnumber any opposing server on 3 or more maps, each of those maps generate half the point tick.
– Divide the cost of upgrades and supply carried by dolyaks such that a max upgraded keep can hold 500 supply to address supply accumulation over night. Also fixes golem rushing.
– Dolyaks move half supply on a map where both enemies are outmanned.
– Server transfers are decided on WvW ranking for their cost. Full servers cannot be transfered to but are free to transfer off.

And that is how you fix the WvW population imbalance by mitigating the effect of a server having more population. As it is quite clear we cannot actually force players to
balance the servers.

Alternatively for epic trolls, remove 1 ppt from the servers ppt for each player they have in queue and watch the stacked servers generate no points

Lordrosicky.5813:

What this IS about is the maps only rewarding guild blobs and nothing else. Because they are too small and because of the aoe cap. The new map is an opportunity to change this, and to make roaming more viable and not just have more blobbing all day every day.

You have a real chip on you shoulder in this thread. Calm down dude. It is ok that some people dont think going around in 20 man blobs spamming aoe’s is skilled. Some people think it is skilled and engaging gameplay. That is fine. Opinions are a good thing.

If you like blob v blob – whether in the field or set up as a gvg – then more power to you. I just dont want this to be the only overpowering thing in wvw.

Hey, you were the one barging in calling guilds players " running right next to some leader spamming aoe and auto attacks". Dont get so defensive when someone calls you out.

Fact is most of the good 20 man guilds are comprised of players who were good at 5 man play or solo roaming. You can fault the map or the AoE cap for hindering small groups, but to go ahead and criticize players who play in a guild raid is not really relevant to any point you are trying to make.

I am confident that there are quite a lot of players in the large guilds who will critique the map for things it will lack with regards to small scale. But to expect that to be listened to isnt likely.

Nor is it likely that how the map is designed even matters. I am guessing the overflow does not contribute to score, because it is an overflow, hence there is no winning on the objective front. Small groups trying to ninja things will be pointless as objectives are pointless. All thats left is fighting in your small group, but the main hindrance to that is AoE cap and that aspect will not be alleviated with the new map.

Wonder how many people are going to lie about getting in just cause it looks cool

Everything is breaking. LA lagging, I was spvping that started lagging. My entire guild roster disappeared for me and everybody from votf online.

Anet has the best servers ever.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

Sac got kicked from testing more or less around game launch. You are mistaken if you think the best players are in testing, and this applies to any game format atm.

And class balance has never been determined by anything other than tpvp, state of the game discussions were always with tpvp players, and all patch notes reflect an intent of 5v5 balance, never wvw and rarely pve.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Anet does use the best players to determine game balance. However, these are PVP players and WvW’ers who Anet caters mostly to.

I imagine there are players in testing from all 3 game modes, but while you may hate it, I believe the PvE testers are also PVT lovers, else you would have players from the hardcore pve guilds in them.

And nah, wvw balance has no say in what goes on. All skills changes are decided by tpvp only, I have yet to see balance updates that boost a class specifically for WvW. The ranger is still useless 1 year later but continued to get nerfs due to its strength in tpvp.

But I do agree that Anet could do with taking the opinion of more intelligent players, I dont think they use the best players quite like you imagine

GvG vs RAGE 15v15 and Scrim vs FURY 20v20 are in that after 2:30

Some footage of the reset this matchup in there fighting MS zone

bob.8632:

Jackie.1829:

bob.8632:

Also if people are WPing into a keep while you are trying to cap it, that is on you. Someone (1-person even!) should be hitting a gate that is not broken as to keep the place contested, then the window is very small and requires good communication for enemies to WP in, designating a few to camp the WP is also helpful provided you are tapping the gate still.

You can waypoint to the keep while the keep is contested you do know that right?

Please re-read what I wrote, as I clearly stated: “Someone (1-person even!) should be hitting a gate that is not broken as to keep the place contested, then the window is very small and requires good communication for enemies to WP in”

Good communication? Lol, since when did spamming a waypoint with 5s left on a timer become good communication. kitten the standards for wvw “skill” are dropping to an all time low.

hihey.1075:

Jackie.1829:

They were just too short sighted to realize it because they dont know their game half as good as the best players playing it.

There.
Can you please enlighten me as to who these “best players” are?
Did these players win anything to achieve that title?

Yes, as a matter of fact they did.

bob.8632:

Also if people are WPing into a keep while you are trying to cap it, that is on you. Someone (1-person even!) should be hitting a gate that is not broken as to keep the place contested, then the window is very small and requires good communication for enemies to WP in, designating a few to camp the WP is also helpful provided you are tapping the gate still.

You can waypoint to the keep while the keep is contested you do know that right?

Well, evidently not.

Also this thread is absolutely epic with the players saying “this is intended, anet made it this way”. Anet didnt do anything, anet simply have a lack of resources and are lazy. On top of that they never had proper testing and understand very little of their own game mechanics.

I was the player who made the trolling with traps video when traps were first revelaed and I instantly showed the game a way to use traps that Anet never intended and many players would never figure out. That mechanic still works even though it was clearly broken. I dont waltz about going “Anet intended this” because they didnt. They were just too short sighted to realize it because they dont know their game half as good as the best players playing it.

mwl.8259:

Jackie.1829:

Shaun.1526:

We didn’t even have ten warriors online. Certainly none were up-leveled. I even had to use my Guardian signet more than once.

It comes down to you blobbing and expecting an easy win. When you lose you come here and QQ.

No. There were 10+ in total, several of them were upleveled whether you noticed your allies or not I dont care.

It all comes down to players abusing broken game mechanics without understanding why they work and then trying to make forum posts.

Stop accusing people of abusing anything. I was in that fight wit my (NOT upleveled) warrior and yes I bannered the lord multiple times, just because I could.

You should have created a distraction somewhere else on the map so we’d have to split our defences but instead you chose to blob up in our garrison. You were so confident in your superior numbers that you didn’t bother to keep people out, destroy siege on outer walls or even stop dolyaks from bringing in more supply during the fights. We were determined to not loose our garrison so we did everything we could (banners, waypoint, interrupt capping) and it worked. We may very well not be able to pull it off again but we enjoyed the fight and saving the keep was a great boost to our morale (although all this forum QQ may even be a bigger boost, thanks for that).

Hey, you going to accuse me of blobbing and needing to l2play, then I will accuse you of abusing broken game mechanics. If people are going to say stupid things then ill be happy to oblige with the same rhetoric.

Also, distract you where? We took every other keep of you guys, why are you saying random things lol.

Also why do you guys keep mentioning siege? You do realize the siege was a non factor, you were doing no damage to at least VoTFs raid group, we didnt get pushed out, we got bored and left. We got bored cause the game is broken and you simply abused that fact over and over.

Shaun.1526:

We didn’t even have ten warriors online. Certainly none were up-leveled. I even had to use my Guardian signet more than once.

It comes down to you blobbing and expecting an easy win. When you lose you come here and QQ.

No. There were 10+ in total, several of them were upleveled whether you noticed your allies or not I dont care.

It all comes down to players abusing broken game mechanics without understanding why they work and then trying to make forum posts.

Rigel.3092:

Crash, you are doing nothing more the venting. You know better than this. If those you run with cannot yet figure out how block or prevent warriors from banner rez’ing a Lord after all this time in WvW, wow, just wow. Better yet, the best thing to do is just deal with it instead of coming on the forums to gripe about it…

But you have the magical solution cause you are so good or?

I read this thread and people go “OMG USE CC” “this is so easy I can kill wars with my thief” “pull it to a different spot” “thats the function of the banner!” “defenders should have an advantage!”.

And I cant help but cry, because clearly such a large portion of players dont get it. We already said it was 10+ warriors, the lord area of garrison has multiple levels as well as inside and outside water gate via which they can hide. They dont come anywhere near the lord until they decide to banner at which point they use their utilities, and then they can wait 3 mins for next banner which syncs with all utilities coming back easily, even if they die they can respawn and they will have all the skills back.

And yes defenders should have an advantage, but not cap invulnerability, and if you cannot understand how this is complete invulnerability, then its you who needs to l2play because you clearly have no semblance of game understanding as far as mechanics. Frankly I dont know why crash posted on forums aside from possibly to get Arenanets attention, because the majority of players here are clueless and the posts demonstrate that.

DanyK.3842:

I’ve seen you run close to 35 players in a raid. It played like a slideshow for me and I didn’t feel that you were a superior skilled organised super-guild but simply a large group of players farming kills. You may argue that FURY runs close to 30 players at nights but that usually means everyone is more laid back and lose focus.
Either way I love you guys how you are but I’m not impressed and you certainly do not resemble the picture I had in mind for VoTF.

Earlier in this thread when XxX said they didnt have the numbers to match you and INC, you said you felt the fights were fair. Well I am going to say the same to you. We dont field 35, the first night we raided on this server we capped out at like 32 for a brief few minutes, and only because several guilds were coming to the map so people were curious to fight them. The second day when fighting FURY we didnt hit 30 players. So just as you told xxx I could tell you the same, I felt the fights between us were fair. And I am quite confident FURY and RAGE are both capable of matching our numbers, regardless of how much you say “this is low tier”.

If we didnt live up to your expectation of skill, then I am sorry, but then again, having a guild with a lot of good players in it is hardly unimpressive. If you truly do feel we wouldnt compete in even numbers then we can always GvG and I can refer you to videos of our past gvgs to see how we play.

Either way I have been suprisingly impressed by this tier and the GH guilds, a lot of you are actually willing to fight and do give us enjoyable nights. I would hardly say this tier is out of place and bear in mind a league system comes in very soon so we will be paired up with a lot of different servers, AM included, so during the course of those 7 weeks our raid of 20-30 will hardly be too large. And in anycase, during our scrims with HT, with our entire guild on the map to watch, we actually had the outmanned buff, so you are going to have a rough time convincing me you do not have the numbers on your server to fight us, cause its right infront of us every night, you easily do, that or our guild is not as big as you think else we wouldnt be getting an outmanned buff.

Idm either fix. But just as bannering gives you a potential fight, waypointing does as well, waypointing lets you get the zerg to the objective when otherwise not possible which gives me as an attacker a proper keep defense fight. So both have their benefits from your fight analysis. Whether waypoint or banner gets nerfed isnt a bit issue.

But the problem is the banner shouldnt work like this, its simply lazy form by Anet who tried to rationalize it by saying “working as intended” so they wouldnt have to put work in. Again though, I dont mind either fix, the problem is the combination of the 2. I think crash simply made his thread title the way it was for the sake of grabbing peoples attention.

Lamir.6702:

So many misplaced commas…Thanks for sharing your point about criticism being listened to better if it’s done in a constructive way, but that was pretty hard to read.

Also, this really sounds like a dev crosspost from a thread a month ago. On further investigation that thread is now deleted? Wonder why.

Rofl, so true. A bunch of the paragraphs in this post are repeated in another post in:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-A-Dev-Think-About-The-Official-Forums

Why is a developer giving us rehashed developer posts. This is honestly getting a bit excessive now, and if you think your playerbase is too stupid to catch on to how part of this post was copy paste, then you severely underestimate us, and yet another dev post to calm people down, only infuriates me further.

We wouldnt be here if you had listened to us a long time ago, when we were right and you were wrong.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Jackie.1829:

Again, nobody from VoTF, literally nobody, cares about garrison or your attempts to defend/attack or your situation in the match up.

So, what is it you were doing in Garri then? Were you in there for the epic fights? With the other 2 guilds? Give us a break…

I dont think you understand what I meant. I meant we wanted garrison but we arent making this thread because of what happened specifically today, we used what happened today as evidence to support a claim we have made previously. This is an incident pertaining to a larger problem of which GH is not at fault since you were simply playing the game as it is possible to.

Here is why I care, a lot of players, us included have gone around asking on the forums for GvG (VoTF not so much as others spoke loud enough already on the topic). A major part of the response was “this is wvw not gvg”. And arenanets stance (even though they are giving us a potential temporary solution out of pressure) is that they will not consider consquences for gvg when updating wvw, hence the orb mechanics reintroduced. They said their primary concern is to better wvw, and make it potentially more competitive (not sure on this , but we have leagues coming up with rewards).

So VoTF figure, hey lets go play “wvw”. And then you realize how mechanically broken WvW is. Bannering the lord was merely one example, and since I personally do care about the game, I will be vocal on something that is very clearly broken. Once everybody relaxes about the FSP/GH hate or the VoTF hate, and just thinks about this rationally, you can see why a sustainable tactic to keep the lord alive for hours on end is flawed, and you can also understand that due to map layout, if warriors take bstance/berserkerstance/endure pain that there is no counter to the casting of the warbanner itself. If you evaluate these things you realize that this does need a fix.

Another broken issue is that 1 guild raid alone cannot take a t3 keep vs defenders so you inevitably have no choice but to blob. But that is a different topic altogether.

Since Devon stated earlier that this is working as intended but we should “kill the warriors”. Since then we have had things like endure pain CD reduction, berserker stance introduced into the game etc, so if this was once intended a very long time ago, the current capacity of warriors makes this no longer fair.

There were no other objectives, we owned hills and bay at the time, and even if they took them back we didnt care, those 2 were flipped from t3 to paper, all we wanted to do was remove the upgrades on garrison.

When VoTF set their raid the intention wasnt “get the highest ppt” it was simply, flip each keep once to remove upgrades.

We got to the last keep, but due to the waypoint location, the layout (its garrison after all) the keep proved to be impossible to capture. And we certainly do know how to play the game, if there was a viable counter we would have thought of it on the spot.

Discussing the matchup? This entire thread was fail from the start anyways, all ive read is “bla bla ive wiped this guild, they blobbed”. I offer you a discussion on actual game mechanics, something that requires some depth or knowledge of the game, and immediately “I am entitled to my opinion!” qq. Grow up, I never said you werent, I simply asked whether it is good for the game or not.

Although encouraging discussion is hard, instead what I will do is post screenshots of all the GH guilds we have wiped over the week, cause trust me its a lot.

How can they be captured then?

I mean not to sound arrogant, but I do know the game inside out, with all skills/traits/mechanics for all the classes in the game. There was no counter to that short of rerolling a bunch of our raid players to necros and hoping at a chance for corrupts.

As for saying VoTF were not fans of EVE… well…. I am quite sure Aneu still has his account, and VoTF are known in EVE, so not sure where you got that opinion from.

What I like is a game with good balance that takes skill to play and has counters for all strategies. Whether the siege takes 6 months or 6 minutes is of little consequence to me, as long as the outcome was determined by skill.

ThomasKreshant.6572:

The mechanics you hate are the reason I play the game.

Oh well different strokes for different folks.

So keeps that cannot be captured are good for the game then? That is why you play the game? If it is I am not going to hate on you, I simply question whether that is a majority opinion. I will admit, it is sometimes good to do things which defy the odds, but that doesnt make it good for the game.

Just like if they removed AoE cap and a single raid could bomb an entire server like in warhammer, its fun for a select few but not good for the game/its broken.

Twinny.9304:

Sandra Martino.3870:

Tyldor.9078:

You guys had 80+ people while we had about 30 to 40? We were outnumbered heavily atleast.

You can actually say that with dry eyes?

Oh god..

They already said they had a queue and i was stuck in queue a bit on our side so I’d say quite fair in numbers, unless that map only holds 30-40 ppl lol

Nono, they had a queue, but they only defended with 25 players, and they dedicated the other 75+ on the map to capping the keeps which “we were too stupid to defend”. But we are the bad guys for using 70 to cap a t3 keep while they use 75 to cap the paper undefended keeps.

The story gets better and better every time I hear it. I am so glad I am in this tier.

Steelo.4597:

gh build siege, gh banner lord, gh so bad my guild 15 vs server easy… didnt think the amount of forum warrioring in this thread could be topped, but you did well there jackie. 9/10 at least.

The only forum warrior is you, in that you take my post completely out of context to say something absolutely stupid. I said I could stop garrison from being flipped with 15 peole and you turnewd it into 15vserver easy.

I guess if you are bad in game though, you need to make it up somehow on the forums right? Random players talking big, always epic. 10/10 for you

gagi.4012:

It was impossible to kill 3 full guild raids in garri lords without using all available means. It was full map against u in lords minus 20 people (one guild) who made sure rest of map was safe while the fight in garri was on. As guild we couldn’t do anything in garri fight against all 3 guilds so we left job to determened bunch in garri to kick u out well played by them. Great job.

Again, nobody from VoTF, literally nobody, cares about garrison or your attempts to defend/attack or your situation in the match up.

This thread was brought up to address a broken mechanic. I really dont understand why so many GH are coming in explaining how they couldnt kill us bla bla. We arent blaming/insulting you. We are saying the game is broken and Arenanet should rethink this mechanic because it has no viable counter.

If you cant kill us, but we can kill you, we deserve to have the keep. We did our jobs. Except if there are broken banners and waypoints in play, then its impossible to cap the keep so either way I dont see how you could be proud of your defense when all you did was suicide banner for 1h+

BlueViking.7105:

Jackie.1829:

The link is super’s stream, you guys can go find it yourself, its easy enough through google.

Please do link it, googling super gw2 stream does unfortunately not give very accurate reults.

http://www.twitch.tv/xsuperxgw2/c/3053707

Although it seems due to the number of people present in garrison, super gets some epic culling which makes this entire thing look like a 20v5 (you wont even see punk or kale). I imagine we have fraps (possibly not actually given the fps in the fight) of the encounter. What you also have to bear in mind is everybody was scattered from GH, on ramparts, on ceiling, on north and south gate, so any single video perspective cannot give a numbers count of everybody at once.

There is very little chance that 25 players are going to hold off 3 wvw guilds for 3 minutes at a stretch each time though.

Shaun.1526:

We had around 25. With some PUGs. Later on another guild joined us with 15 and some more PUGs came along.

This still doesn’t compare to 3 full raids.

The link is super’s stream, you guys can go find it yourself, its easy enough through google. Yea a bunch of you bailed once we wiped everybody out of garrison keeping just enough people to infinitely rez the lord via waypoint respawning.

My question is, how is this even relevant? Do you want a cookie? The original point was that bannering a the lord over and over with no diminishing returns is broken, and that having a keep become absolutely impossible to take is not an intended by product of a broken mechanic. It has nothing to do with this specific incident and I hardly care about GH, FSP or the guilds you have. Considering the amount VoTF have transfered none of the individuals matter to us, only the mechanics.

Whether you or other servers do it, the point was that the mechanic itself is broken.

You cannot stop multiple warriors doing this, you cannot CC a war if he doesnt want to be CCed, Corrupt Ench has a 5 boon cap and wells are ground target, there is also such a thing called dodging. That doesnt even begin to mention the incredible difficulty of stripping a war in a zerg fight before he gets to the lord, vs the absolute ease of bannering a lord.

Banners are balanced on players because players have downed state penalty. That is the entire premise. The lack of such a function on NPCs is a complete oversight by Anet because they never considered it, nor did they imagine people would do this.

But oversight by Anet is common, we see it all the time in league systems, match ups, world ranks, arrowcarts, and orb buffs.

My main concern is how you guys as players cannot see how this is flawed, because if thats the level of understanding of the game amongst the WvW community, then that speaks volumes to the quality of WvW skill.

fab.3298:

They were all away recapping our BL.

What, it takes 80 players to cap empty keeps? And you complain about us zerging?

We have the entire thing on stream, you arent 25 players by any means, thats a huge bunch of bogus. It also takes no skill whatsoever, or is this it now, wvw skill is reduced to bannering npcs lol. Epic wvw.

Well done on capping paper keeps back though, doesnt change the fact that you lost them in t3 state.