This chart gives some indication of what Anet could achieve if they had a managed service agreement to route traffic around the world: http://www.verizonenterprise.com/about/network/latency/
Realistically, probably about 100-150ms added latency from Central Europe to the west coast USA. But if they provided entry points to their network from around Europe, UK, France and Spain would probably only have an extra 70-100ms. Sounds manageable for an MMO to me, but whether that really matters or can be made not to matter by improvements on the servers probably only Anet know.
Here’s an article about what the competition are doing from a little over a year ago: http://www.wsj.com/articles/videogame-firms-power-up-networks-for-online-players-1422927189
tbh, its not even a case of “only anet can find out”.
We could just get the community to make f2p accounts and connect to the alternate continent and post the ping results.
No, that’s the point. People do that already but they are relying on their ISPs routing to the other continent. Only Anet can find out what the latency would be if they handled the cross-continental routing by buying it themselves, with guaranteed service levels, or whether they could compensate for any delay by speeding up their server processing (I added this bit later, so you may not have seen it!).
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I posted something similar here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-04-28/page/2#post6127826
The question is how much of the increased latency from NA to EU and visa-versa is due to “physics”, i.e. (mostly) the speed of light and how much of it is avoidable if Anet funded and provided the cross-continental routing, instead of relying on ISP peering arrangements/routing.
And although it would almost certainly add a minimum of 150ms to the max delay (say, Moscow to a server farm on the East Coast of the USA) how much total lag is due to server processing and could investment in the servers more than compensate for the extra travel time?
Only Anet can find out, but it sure would help with nightcapping if there was one global league.
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Proposed suggestion: debuff blobs – 10% – 20% – 30% speed debuff based on group size.
How to? Register number of players in an area around the commander.
I suggested something a couple of years ago. My logic was this:
There is something odd about WvW, vs real combat. In real combat, moving large armies around is hard they are slow and vulnerable to much more mobile small havok squads. They find it difficult to move through chokes – they don’t fit and they are a big target.
In WvW we turn this on its head – big groups have access to unlimited speed buffs, the cap on targets mitigates damage and they can move through the eye of a needle as easy as pie.
In the interest of breaking the zerg it seemed fair to me that a big group have some kind of debuff to somewhat offset, as in the real world, it’s otherwise overwhelming advantages.
I have to say though this was “not one of my more popular ideas!” In fact it was pretty much universally reviled as just being “not fun”(!) and I kinda get that. This is a game and sometimes what sounds realistic, or even fair, is not in the interest of playability. But it is an interesting thought!
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I’ve been thinking about how PPK could be added more meaningfully to the score and how we allow for the very different number of kills at the top the league and the bottom.
Originally I thought we should have 50% of the points in any 24 hrs allocated to PPK and to have a running estimate of what that might mean at any point during the day – adding 1/(24*4) of the points to the “pool” each tick and adjusting points for each server based on the % of kills that server has made so far that day (NB: the score could go down, as well as up, in the evening, when primetime kills may significantly sway the percentage of kills over the day). I still think that might work. But then it occurred to me, if ANet want to give lagging servers something to fight for and potentially add some spice to a “final day” Saturday or even Sunday, PPK could be calculated over the whole week and only locked in at the end. If the matchup ended on Sunday the early part of the matchup would be quieter and there might still be everything to turn up and play for in the last 2 days as those days (and Friday evening) would be by far the busiest and contribute mostly to the overall number of kills and hence PPK score! All without messing around with ppt at the end of the week.
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+1 for build templates! The biggest QoL change the game needs. Not just one alternate WvW build, but the option to switch between multiple builds in each game-mode.
For the last week, since all the changes and the return of players, we have often had queues on at least one (map jump) or two borders. The borders have had great fights led mostly by the best commanders. EB, yes with massive queues, has often been left to the pugs to manage by themselves.
All of this is very similar to the “halcyon days” when the Alpine borders were still with us. If people are still staying out of the DBls they are allowing past experience to get in the way of their enjoyment of the game.
More variety is a good thing. The ABls had developed a very stale meta where everyone knew every siege location and counter. Having both ABl and DBl will be good; I just hope we can have frequent rotation and not 3-monthly, as originally suggested.
This may be contentious for social and technological reasons! The only real solution to nightcapping would be to move to a global league.
With the right peering/routing latencies from Euope to NY are comparable to NY to California (http://ipnetwork.bgtmo.ip.att.net/pws/network_delay.html). Clearly, the raw transit time from Europe to California is going to be about double. But, has anyone done the work to find out how the game would play with a well funded server farm either on the east coast or in Ireland with entry points in Europe and the USA supported by top-notch peering arrangements? How much of the latency currently experienced by Americans playing on EU servers and visa-versa (which while not ideal is already mostly playable) are due to the speed of light and how much due to the vagaries of poor routing?
Could Anet-supported routing from key locations to the server farm make things better to the point a global game would be possible? Are we really saying the laws of the universe dictate that the world can never support truly global games?
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This poll shows once again what a thankless task it is to deliver WvW by "listening to the community "! We have always had polar opposite opinions of what WvW is and what it should be!
Personally I think the changes to scoring can be kept simple, maybe leaving time for some of the other stuff, sparkle trails aside
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Increasing the points per kill to where it has rough equivalence to ppt at the end of the week (as suggested in the “leaked”/“fake” draft release notes/ideas) should meet the most important need. No need to mess around with complex out of hours reduced point scores. Then those working outside of ‘normal’ hours, for EU or NA, still get the same credit for capping a tower or keep, but if they don’t actually have to fight anyone to do so, that counts too, much more than the token amount it does at the moment.
I don’t say this for the benefit of particular servers now, that are winning @ ppk, but because changes in scoring should lead to other servers improving at that and giving better fights all round.
As others have said, more points for taking upgraded structures seems interesting (and again sounds easy), but could also lead to serious bunkering. Maybe trying this for a few weeks makes sense.
I’m not convinced the other suggested scoring changes are needed or would be beneficial.
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Yes, Alpine is coming back in the next couple of weeks (my understanding of what Anet have said), so nothing to poll. Only thing they could have added is a question whether to go for Alpine, Desert or both in rotation, that would get the same divided opinions that all these threads have. Again, nothing really to poll.
Did you somehow forget that servers were linked last week? so yes there are more players on the dbl these days. While the changes to the dbl were good, I highly doubt that’s the reason players have returned.
I returned to see what the linking would be like and played on the dbl on the weekend, but haven’t played much on the weekdays and when I did it was in ebg, cause guess where most of the players were…
I can only speak for our matchup. SFR and BB are not even in an alliance and Gandara are paired with Ruins of Surmia (the previous bottom rated EU server by a fair margin)! Without wishing to disrespect our RoS friends (I actually started with RoS, someone else in the house is still with them and I still remember it fondly) I sincerely doubt our matchup has been more than negligible impacted by the alliance changes!
BTW, I am not claiming the return is wholly or even majorly down to the DBl changes. It is more due to the other changes, e.g. Stability and, yes, rewards. But when all the changes are added together the DBls are in a very different place to 10 days ago.
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The Desert BL is vastly improved and have been non stop action and fights during prime. They aren’t that bad.
Yes, because most guilds are raiding on DBL, they are forced to because of the 50+ qeue on EB. But as long as EB has no qeue, nobody is playing on DBL.
True. If EB is not queued we go there first ([CL]), the second choice is DBL. Before hot 80%+ of time we were on ABL.
You should try again. Last week much more fun to be had on borders than in EB.
Anet definitely need a rethink about the middle of ABl and DBl. maybe 4th time will be a charm.
A good point. Maybe there could be some sort of recreative combat zone there? An arena?
Just a thought, probably loads of flaws, feel free to shoot down! It’s probably already been suggested several times; it’s not that original! Sosorry to anyone who got there before me.
SM seems to work pretty well. It improves mobility and is a pretty good spot to fight. How about a relatively open, walled “surface mine” or some such, that provides resourcing boons to the side that holds it (faster supply camp drops? On all maps similar to how the ruins work?), gates and portals that only they can use, and maybe an extra WP, when upgraded. This could then be a good spot for more open field fights in both types of Bl.
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For sure I think ppk should be substantially increased and, yes, probably, rewards should be balanced in that way too. It would be interesting to see what would happen if ascended drops could only come from players! Of course, this is all a little off-topic, but interesting none the less.
It isn’t actually off topic though , as long as the maps are part of the score the score is directly tied to the maps viability. The maps and scoring system are intertwined.
For sure I agree it’s important, but it isn’t specific to the DBls or even the Bls in general, that was all I was saying.
Trying to summarise this thread (always a dangerous thing, but anyway!) it seems clear the community cannot agree on the value of the modified DBls. They have fans and haters! Regular rotation seems the best option, so no one is stuck playing a map they don’t like for weeks on end
.
Things I think we all pretty much do agree on are:
- northern towers need fixing, to give them an importance similar to ABls
- centre needs fixing. Big wasted space
- probably some work still to be done to make travelling the map less “frustrating”
If there is anything else you think has consensus then let’s bring it to the top by reposting.
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For sure I think ppk should be substantially increased and, yes, probably, rewards should be balanced in that way too. It would be interesting to see what would happen if ascended drops could only come from players! Of course, this is all a little off-topic, but interesting none the less.
I would definitely like to see the northern towers have a strategic role, as on the ABls. If it is just to hard to move them, maybe there could be a new kind of fixed siege in those towers with ‘airship targeted’ (I.e. aerial view) surface to surface missiles (new tech from the war against Mordy!) that can hit the outer Garri and support attacking troops in parts of the outer courtyard. The treb spots in the northern towers of the ABl were pretty fixed anyway. Of course there would need to be counters
.
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I’m not sure the maps are too big now, tbh. The routes (now simplified) just take a bit of learning, as they did in ABls back in the day. I would get rid of the popup rocks around ‘Garri’ that just seem to irritate all sides in a fight, but that’s nitpicking.
The simple fact is ANet have never worked out what to do with the middle of the borders. Everything they have tried has (largely) failed. Sure the ruins had some admirers but they were still largely neglected except when there was a daily! Actually the shrines in DBl, although admittedly placed differently, are far more popular for the buffs they provide.
Anet definitely need a rethink about the middle of ABl and DBl. maybe 4th time will be a charm.
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Wish I had not been distracted with HoT and specialisations! Will have to wait until next Xmas to get rid of what will be, by then, several big bags of fragment on my poor neglected dolyak char
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I agree with the OP though, it would be nice if they could be converted, even if the conversion rate is pretty poor, into other ascended/desired items rather than (pretty much) junk.
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Nobody was playing on DBl, prior to the changes. Few were playing full stop. There were barely enough for 1 map. It’s little wonder people blobbed in EB for fights. The ABls would have had similar, if not quite so severe problems, because the new borders clearly did have issues!
More importantly though, since last week, the fights have been great. We even had a great fight on the, much maligned, stairs at fire keep that was really different, in a good way. Wouldn’t want all to be the same, but that’s the point. The current DBl and ABl will work well in rotation.
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Alpine Borderlands will be rotated back in with the next release (not hotfix.)
Will ABL and DBL be on a time rotation? That would really be the best. Some people prefer the one, others prefer the other, so it would probably be fine if you swapped between them every few weeks (month at the most?).
Anet have said there will be a rotation. They have suggested borders may be swapped every 3 months, but that is not finally decided yet. Personally I’d prefer a much more frequent swap, even random each week, but we will have to see.
There is a fundamental flaw in the EBG + 3xBl border model that does not adapt well to drops in population. The Alpine borders would have had similar, if not identical, problems over the last few months when wider issues with WvW had caused people to leave the game and others were focused on PvE for specialisations and Guild Halls.
Maybe it would be easier to manage fluctuating numbers if we had several different symmetric maps, like EB, that could be added and removed as numbers changed, but then we would lose the idea of a ‘home’ map that a lot of us are attached to. It’s also a lot of work!
To largely repeat what I posted here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Alpine-Borderlands-needs-to-be-prio-1/ ……
IMO and that of many others (although clearly not all!) the design issues with the new BLs are now largely fixed. There is always room for improvement – it is a real shame the northern towers don’t have the strategic role they have in the ABls and the central area seems a great waste of space now the event has been removed (although It could be said that is also true of the ABls) – but after the changes they mostly they work well.
What’s more, regardless of their flaws, the new borders never really had a chance. They were flawed, for sure, but they launched when the game generally was in a bad state and had a low population unable to support 4 maps. Part of their bad rep, was simply because they game was boring and the maps were empty!
We’ve had some amazing old-school fights in the borders in the last week. Really the best open field fights I remember, ever, because of the more varied terrain. The changed maps, a better meta and a restored population has transformed them.
They are different, definitely; keeps and even towers are bigger and more difficult to scout for example but, in rotation with the ABls (as should have been the case from the start) they add welcome variety.
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Are we not allowed to like and want both, on rotation, as promised! 
But, I agree, frequent rotation, or even random, would be my preference, to keep things fresh.
And, at the real risk of repeating what myself and others have said, if you swore never to go in the DBls again, when they were
A) broken and
B) deserted (partly because they were broken, but also because the whole game was in a bad state and people had to focus on EB to get any fights)
… try them again, now they are neither. Not perfect it’s true, but neither are the ABls, nor EB.
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The Desert BL’s are fun now that they took the PVE laser out if you want to stay a zergling and have blob fights stay on EB. If you want to do different tactics and have different challenges go to the Desert Boarder Lands
What exactly is “fun” about the map? I’m honestly asking.
All the terrain levels and paths, hills and valleys and secret passages all kinds of kitten. Places to hide, places to run, places to sneak attack.. Choke points for big fights, but always more ways to go.. It’s just so dynamic and full of choices.
Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed Alpine for 2 years or so but, I agree it becoming boring doing the same circle loop around the map over and over. Alpine barely has any decent sized spaces for open field fighting and Alpine is full of unused space.
For the most part the chokes on the desert are way too long and result in pirate shipping, which I don’t find fun.
Pirate shipping was more due to the wider meta, before 19th April. It was happening all the time in EBG too. The latest changes, especially to stability, have fixed that. We’ve had some amazing old-school fights in the borders in the last week. Really the best open field fights I remember, ever, because of the more varied terrain.
Maybe the ABls will be better now too, because of last week’s changes, but don’t dismiss the desert Bls out of hand because of past problems and the consequent population drop.
An official response would be good, but in the past this terminology has meant a “major build update” rather than the, much more frequent, hot fixes. These are normally every 2 weeks on a Tuesday (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates), so the next one will possibly be on 3rd May.
Since nobody wants to play desert borderlands EB ends up with a crazy queue while the other maps are empty or full of semi-afk players waiting for their EB queue.
ArenaNet needs to quickly roll out the alpine borderlands. It would alleviate many of the concerns on this forum right now.
As a logician, my answer is simple: I want to play in the desert borderlands and I do that nearly exclusively, almost daily. Therefore your claim that nobody wants to play is wrong.
Please do not speak for all of us.
Ditto! And I know many others who now feel the same.
I am all for rotating the Alpine Bls and Desert Bls; if it had been like that from the start there would have been less heat in this debate. Greater variety can only be good. Please, please don’t throw away the Desert Bls, because of some design problems on launch combined with population problems due to the wider state of WvW.
With last week’s changes to the DBl and WvW, great fun and great fights have been had on the DBls. The changes, the greater numbers and growing knowledge of the DBls has let them prove themselves.
That’s not to say some changes wouldn’t be good – it is a real shame the northern towers don’t have the strategic role they have in the ABls – but please keep them in rotation.
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I kinda agree. Not asking for a buff, but an optional trade-off in traits (cleanse on shield skill?) would be fine. I run Glint/Shiro and feel locked into running staff, just to have a good dependable cleanse. It’s just dull have to run one specific legend or be forced in weapon choice not to be dead meat to any condi.
So, I’ve had this problem since HoT released. I’ve been expecting a fix every couple of weeks to no avail. However, no one else seems to be shouting about it so I’m beginning to think it’s just affecting me!
Seemingly randomly, but typical a few times an hour Facets other than Nature will stop “locking”. If I try to turn them on they will reset after a fraction of a second to their off state. The way to get them to work again is switch to a different legend, then back to Glint after the cooldown. Needless to say this can get in the way of a smooth rotation and proper team support.
Is no one else seeing this? In which case I probably need to discuss with support. Or is everyone else suffering in silence, as I was? Or is this something really obvious and intended that I am missing?
Any info welcome as it’s driving me mad!
How does it miss with a big boss standing right next to it! Sounds like it is buggy. But anyway, yes, sounds disappointingly feeble for 2 hard cc skills.
Is there a problem with Tidal Surge and Cyclone? Mostly these skills seem to have no impact at all on the defiance bar. Seems like the pull/knockback is just not triggering. Been noticing this in fractals. I’ll admit I haven’t noticed if it works elsewhere.
I agree it’s been overnerfed. It needed fixing at the start, but now it’s easier than the Octovine (not that Octovine is hard, but it does need good map communication), or getting VB T4. IMO it just needs more health and old style goo pool mechanics (but keeping improved visibility).
Yep, totally agree there should be a grace period when if you rejoin you are guaranteed to go back to your previous instance, with participation. 5 mins has been mentioned.
But crashes are 90% fixed by switching to the 64-bit client. In fact I have not had one crash since changing, but I understand others have not been quite so lucky. For all it is a massive improvement.
Even with no crashes there are good reasons why the 5 minute rule should apply.
Why is the map trying to close when it’s full of people?
It’s because 1 hour before it was nearly empty. Once the map has decided to close nothing can stop it. It does not keep checking to see if more people have joined. So if a map is near empty and it decides to give a 1 hour warning it WILL close 1 hour later. If a load of people taxi into that map they will not stop it.
I agree, I think it should do another check just before closure and if the map has filled then it should not close. Hopefully Anet will either fix this or, better still, improve the megaserver system so people can get onto meta maps without this crazy need to jump, squadjoin and taxi!
For sure you should always be able to get back on the map, with full participation, after crash or internet disconnect. The server should remember you for 10 mins plus and either reserve a spot for you or allow the map to go over it’s base limit.
On the other hand, I have not had one single crash (a handful of disconnects, but that’s a different issue and not Anet’s fault) since moving to the 64-bit client. If you have a fair amount of ram (at least 8GB, ideally 16 GB or more) I would definitely try it.
Revenant has the tool to live through lots of mobs if you do the rotation correctly or choose the weapon correctly. (Hammer, Sword/shield can deal with most situations).
As for condition problem of Herald, Invocation trait-line + Shiro can solves most of the problem. (Impossible odds basically ignore cripple and chills
)
I tend to use hammer and sword/shield too.
My experience has been Shiro is great if you have one heavy or a clustered group of mobs, but if you have varied mobs all around you – cavaliers charging, some working at range – Herald really struggles.
But I will definitely look at Impossible Odds. Sounds interesting, thanks!
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I have a Druid, Dragonhunter and Herald (map complete in Maguuma on all three) and I agree with all that the Druid is best for soloing (and a lot of fun too!).
Herald is an odd one. He has great mobility, with perma swiftness, which makes him great eg. for collecting airship cargo. Shiro is good for nuking down a solo heavy. But you don’t want to get stuck in solo combat with even a medium sized group of mobs. He is so vulnerable to conditions and cc you get perma crippled and run over! On the other hand he is also hugely valuable in the big group dps heavy group stuff (eg. Chak) with the constant boons he is able to kick out.
Dragonhunter, somewhere in the middle. Much better escapes and better cc, with all those traps. You feel you are contributing more in a traditional party, but neither as good solo, or as effective in big group. For that I would probably be better switching back to a traditional Guard build, but I’m not sure the Herald hasn’t superseded the guard’s role in kicking out might?
But these are just my opinions and are certainly influenced by my trait choices and play style.
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Luckily with the sharpening stones, theyre all named the same, so you can copy/paste, but yea, a lot of these things we have to type the whole name for.. like the Halloween finishers….
why didnt you just Use them, lol
They are collection items. They unlock that element in the collection when you pick them up, then they have no value and no other use. It is a bit daft.
Yes, I posted something similar yesterday:
I don’t think this is a big, difficult or costly change. It would simply allow:
- People already in maps to group with those they want to play with
- Allow those who don’t, unfortunately, get in to an organised map do stuff that benefits gw2 and other players instead of standing on a waypoint for an hour clicking ‘join’ every 5 secs!
The one thing that I really think they should do, for HoT purchasers, for free and it’s not a small thing(!) is add a whole new 0-80 starter zone. Tengu anyone?
What has become clear, from all the discussion here and on Reddit, is that a substantial slice of the GW2 community don’t want harder content to move on to when done with the Old World, they want more of that world to explore and that I get. I really hope ANet have something like this in their back pocket, maybe as part of the next season of Living Story!
I’m completely mystified by the reaction of some to Maguuma. I’m not rubbishing your opinion and I know you are not alone but I’m mystified!
I’m now map complete in all Magumma on 3 chars and I’m having a complete blast! I won’t pretend I wasn’t lost and frustrated a few times in Tangled Depths before I had explored it once. But after that I love all the maps, the NPC characters, the stories and the intense action. It’s amazing! The first time I stumbled into a Dragon’s Stand map doing the final assault on Mordremoth was a huge adrenalin rush that I won’t forget. I’ve done Dragon’s Stand twice today and still it is huge fun.
Everything is not perfect. Chak Gerent (the conclusion to Tangled Depths) is close to impossible without TeamSpeak coordination, which I don’t think is right for Open World content. But, honestly guys, give HoT and Maguuma a good try. It’s given me some of the most exhilarating gaming I have had in years!
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I think (actually fairly minor) changes to the otherwise brilliant mega server system are vital for some of these new meta events.
Every day hundreds of people are spending from 30 mins to an hour, right-clicking on a squad commander and choosing (for example) ‘join in Tangled Depths’, trying (and mostly failing!) to squeeze into a map, rather than actually playing the game! Typical gw2community events have 200-500 people trying to join 1-3 maps.
If people knew if they were in a “meta squad” (limited by map size) they would get on the map, then, if not, they could get on with playing the game – surely what ANet want!
Here’s an idea:
1. Change the party/squad system slightly to allow 3 ‘modes’: ‘party’, ‘raid’, or ‘meta event’. ‘Meta Event’ will allow members up to the map limit. People can ‘squadjoin’ or be invited, as now.
2. If the group is set up as ‘meta’, once you are ready, you can ‘start new instance’, with a tick box option to ‘make private’, but these options will only be enabled if more than the map minimum are in the group (say 60).
3. I’d also change the lfg, so you can advertise such big events; maybe make an option in the squad UI itself, to advertise. However, to allow organised groups (eg. Using TS) publicly advertising shouldn’t be required.
If creating a new instance requires a group of more than the number that would normally spawn a new instance it should have negligible cost on Anet, it merely allows people to choose, if they wish, who they play with.
This has got to be a win-win. It will make the job of joining these big events much, much better for the players, without significantly increasing the number of instances. And those that can’t fit into the organised maps can get on with doing other things in the game, or advertise their own meta event, instead of being stuck in the Squad UI, with hundreds of others, fruitlessly trying to join an almost full map.
Please, please Anet get on the case with this before Maguuma is old news
Can someone explain why food is needed for this?
Food provides the extra damage boost needed!
Yeah, the dps needed for this is very high (some might say insane for an open world event) and one of the reasons why this event is so pug-unfriendly. We need all the boosts we can have to beat this thing.
Just wanted to say, been running this for about 2 weeks now and nothing but great things to say for it. Renamed the file to gw2.exe so my k/b, mouse, Overwolf all recognise it. Not one game crash since and AB meta would almost ALWAYS crash beforehand! Here at least it “just works”!
This is great news! Hopefully all committed EU players will get on board and we will kick that Gerent’s butt good and hard!
Was really struggling with Revenent in AB, until Herald was fully unlocked. Now Herald/Shiro and Herald/Jalis are awesome combos. Herald/Jalis is great for champs in Maguuma. Jalis for pulling down the break bar outside of condi fields and Herald for group dps. Mobility/permaswiftness is great for those maps. Shield is great too. Just need to get an ascended one!
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Thanks! Yes, I was dumb!
Pretty sure it appeared only today. It’s not my backpack (it’s turned off). It’s still there if I strip naked (in game, ofc!
). It disappears in WvW. What the heck?
I’ve really enjoyed playing on Verdant Brink. Between that and Halloween, I haven’t had any time for PvP or WvW. Once things settle down, I’ll resume those forms of play.
Halloween?! Camping , as I am, in Maguuma and mostly diving into WvW for services, I’ve barely noticed it’s happening!
different strokes.
Yeah, absolutely. I wasn’t judging. I’ve loved Halloween (and Xmas) in past years. But I wasn’t (totally) joking. I do forget it’s happening, sometimes for days.