Guild Wars 2

The guys above have covered it. Mendon’s IS the worst tower in EB to defend, I hate it. It’s not just siege placement and lack of cover from keep, but the long path from Speldon and on to keep that mean it takes forever to upgrade. But Ogres and Veloka are just the opposite. Ogres upgrades in no time if Pangloss is upgraded. If Mendon’s was a proper inner tower AND Red had Ogres they would be at a massive advantage.

That said, it does seem a very odd design choice to give (historically if not, so much, now) the “weakest” server such an unbalanced side of the map. I always prefer playing green – and that is supposed to be for the strongest server! ???

Lol, we do seem to have had some stunning unlucky dice rolls! Each week we think we must have some silver opponents and each week we get more gold league fights! Before this week, when we have teams 6 and 7, we had to fight Piken(6) one week, then Kodash(5) then, when we were sure our luck must change, Riverside (4) (Their ratings at the time)!

But. that said, I do not agree with the OP that we are losing heart. We have stayed remarkably determined and managed to hold our ranking through these tough times

We are certainly better trained, by adversity, for Season 2!

They should seriously consider NA/EU “alliances” for WvW – TopEU with BottomNA, TopNA with BottomEU, 2ndFromTop with 2ndFromBottom etc. These alliances could possibly shift over time (but not “frequently”) for balance. There is a slight difficulty because NA and EU do not have the same number of servers, but there should be a solution to that.

We have members on our server from all over the world. I am sure others do too. Lag/Latency due to geography seems insignificant compared to the other well known causes in WvW.

Global server alliances offer:

- the possibility to shake up the current stagnation at the top/bottom of each table
- improve round the clock coverage without significantly impacting peak hour queue times

Feel free to dissect!

1. ranger (by far!)
2. Engi
3. Ele

Same problem here, also with SSD. PC load times feel like I have gone back in time 5 years!

Doh, stupid me. Ill shut up now!

No, of course you are right, it is just one set of stats, but with double the stat points of any ascended back item, before upgrade, more after, it gives plenty of potential to use other items to fill in the gaps. And, no, there are no prerequisites to get it, just 1000 karka shells which can be bought on TP.

Look, you have to do SOMETHING!

If you hate fractals, as some said, this is an alternative. If you hate all PvE, as I said, you can BUY the karka shells. So you can shell out for gems, or earn the gold in WvW. If you don’t want to do any of that….. What are you doing?!

The Ancient Karka Shell, even without an upgrade and doubly with one, has by far the most stat points of any back item, even if it is not called “ascended” (250 vs 126 without upgrade). It just predated the intro of ascension. Yeah, one of the stats is Magic Find but there are more than enough of others to go around. This requires no fractals, just a lot of karka shell farming, which you can even buy on TP if you want.

Virindiira.1025:

Its god like it is.
You earn the rank with your char and get benefits from it. Why the hell should a twink get all the stuff you earnd with other chars? If so why not get all classes to lvl 80 when you reach with 1 class lvl80

You see, much as it would make my life easier if WvW XP was account-based, I think this makes sense! Commander tag is something different and I really think that should be account-based. But the fact that developing an alt is already a time consuming process just makes earning each chars wXP more justifiable IMO. Tough, but true

Yep, the whole thing is about jumping. If you hate that on principle then this is not the event for you. No biggie though, with new events every 2 weeks, just do something else, or take a break and something you prefer may be next.

That said, I hate jumping puzzles normally, but really enjoyed this. There are at least 2 trivially easy kites to get (provided Kites of the Night is not bugged – try guesting) and the rest of the jumping, whilst not exactly easy, lacks the mind-numbing frustration (for me!) of many of the normal JPs, where I fail, fail and fail again at the same jumps for days on end

binidj.5734:

It does seem peculiarly expensive

Clearly not that pricey as I’ve seen several around already!

Shieero.9187:

I sold stuff I DIDN`T need to EARN money lol. What don`t you understand here? Being less lucky I`d still earn 15 g at least to buy my guild kite. If you feel like earning money other way, do so. Just don`t sit in LA and whine how Anet guys don`t want to give you stuff for free.

I’m deliberately being pedantic here. But for me EARNING involves increasing your net worth through personal effort. Not converting your net worth for one form to another for sure and really not by gambling either

But, on the bigger point, as I said, I have no issue with the price of the kite. Clearly some really value it and are happy, some don’t see it worth 15g and that is fine too. Not like it is an essential purchase

Shieero.9187:

Yesterday I`ve spent my 500 k karma (95% bonus) for Orr boxes, earned 28 g selling lodestones that I got (and rest of kitten). After that I bought unidentified dyes for my laurels, got Celestial dye, earned 23 g. Did some boss events, got globes, salvaged them into dusts, earned almost 10 g. And still some of you say earning gold is hard in this game…

playing devil’s advocate here ( I have no axe to grind either way on whether the kite is good value), you did not really “earn” that money. Instead you sold stuff you had for other stuff and then got really lucky gambling with it! Like selling your car and betting it all on 6-red! Getting 28g from lodestones in those orrian boxes sounds very lucky!! http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Orrian_Jewelry_Box/Drop_rate. On average you would get less than 1 stone!

Sorry for the delay – Kites of the Night

Yeah, I don’t believe they have said. But there is clearly some more BotFW content to come (the political battle between Gnashblade and Kiel) so my guess is it will be around for a month.

2 of the kite achievements require almost no jumping (one of those requires a single jump across one gap in a broken walkway, but that hardly counts! I did only those to get the meta (and, yes, they both counted ). I didn’t need my 1st place achievement either, although like the other poster I “accidentally” got it trying for 3rd! And I can confirm both of those counted towards the meta too

I was frustrated with the WP tax, but the profits from Sanctum Sprint, plus the fairly rapidly respawing quartz nodes ion the Cliffs can recoup this cost if needed.

I HATE the WvW JP and would personally like to see it go, but that is really a separate discussion! But, as long as it is there, I am, personally, not bothered by the achievements for that, or 1st in SS. You do not need to do either to get the meta achievement.

I have only done 2 of the kite achievements – the 2 that did not require any significant jumping – and “accidentally” came first in Sanctum Sprint! I only needed 3rd to get the meta, but came 1st and got 2 achievements in one!

I don’t live is Aus (Actually UK), so I can make no useful comment on the inbuilt lag you suffer from. I agree that Anet should probably invest in an Asia/pacific server. Can’t be that hard to set up these days and its not a like there aren’t more than a few people in that part of the world!!

But, I too suffer periodically with problems especially in Sanctum Sprint and can only reiterate some occasionally helpful tips posted here and in other threads:

- looking in the direction you want to jump seems to help with skill #3. It might be just that this gives the server more time to catchup with your location, but whatever it does seem helpful to take time to orientate correctly before jumping

- pressing a direction key while using #3 also seems to increase unreliability. Others have reported it in other threads. I had a habit of almost continually pressing W while running through the map and I found #3 to work much better if I just took my finger off W to jump. I’m tempted to say this is a simple bug in the way #3 works, rather than a lag issue.

None of this, of course, will fix problems caused by serious lag

Vick.6805:

I do wish the matchup system would take into account a server’s “prime time” activity trends to make the matches a tad more level. When you have two servers with almost no night coverage opposing one server with night coverage, the winning server is a foregone conclusion.

Argh! But that is part of what makes a good server. I just don’t get why having a load of PUGs in prime time is somehow “good”, but organising a group of dedicated guys to get up at 3AM or a guild on a different timezone is “bad”. To repeat, this is open to all.

Some of the most fun can be had “out of hours” when two “nightcapping” teams clash

It’s not for no reason it’s because your opponent didn’t bother to show! Shame on them!

All credit to you/your server for organising round the clock cover/getting up at 3AM. The opportunity is there for all servers equally.

lordkrall.7241:

So, whats wrong with using WPs?
I personally uses them daily when I got to LA.

Because they cost! Using other routes is free. Saying use PvP is fine, but doesn’t control behaviour of others.

I agree – free WP to LA from anywhere or, alternatively, disable/charge to use LA Asura gate in WvW if you use within, say, 5 mins of arriving in WvW

Fenrir.6183:

Here’s a simple fix:
Make it so that points earned depend on the number of enemies on the battlefield.
Easier targets should mean less points.

I really disagree with this. It makes organising yourselves and calling out for support counterproductive. Getting more people to help with the effort should ALWAYS be rewarded. Handicapping based on ranking would still always reward the team that gets the troups out, but would give a server that is lower ranked due to low coverage something to fight for.

Firmly disagree with the OP. This is the same for every server. Nightcapping only happens if another server is better organised at certain times. No reason why this is any less “legitimate” than being well organised in primetime.

Plus, it’s great fun pulling an “allnighter”. If you haven’t, you should try it, maybe on reset night (Fri) if you have a regular hours job.

Don’t even agree with a point bias based on current population. In fact in other threads I have heard precisely the opposite (which I also disagree with) – that you should get MORE points if there are fewer in recognition of difficulty of capping.

We have talked in other threads about handicapping scoring based on relative glicko rating, so although the highest rated server might dominate the map they still need to perform up to their rating to win the week. Equally lower servers would be able to fight for something even if they have no hope of controlling the map. This might have a side benefit of handicapping servers that do dominate due to better 24hr coverage, without stopping play for people in diverse time zones or who just enjoy out of hours play!!

Jamo.2367:

Thanks a lot ^^ First time i’ve commanded for that long in a while! We got pretty close too garrison a few times…

Oh yes you sure did! Our inner wall was @about25% for hours. We had no supply to patch it up. And if you had broken through I’m not sure the layout would have allowed such effective defence as that bridge over to the Cliffside lord! I’d go so far as to say that, although little seemed to change for hours, we felt on the backfoot for most of it. That is why we were so keen to cap you!!

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Anyone who is slagging off FoW and Vabbi are obviously not playing this week because those of us who stayed to fight have a lot of respect for both servers and their people. Sometimes there is great skill, sometimes there is awful skill but at all times there is respect that you keep battling against the odds where many others would have quit. If we are able to ask you to join RoS it is because of that respect that we want to show our appreciation… we want to fight with you instead of against you. We wouldn’t ask someone we did not respect to join us would we?

+1

There has been some great skill out there- both PvP and sieging/commanding. I’ve had some great battles this week. The honest truth is there just haven’t been enough for people due to lack of numbers to push and hold across the map. But in NO WAY is that a reflection of individual player or guild skills.

No thank you, no 1 up, 1 down.

1. Tighten the random roll to about half what it is now – don’t wait until confidence rating supposedly improves. Some matchups are, by any measure, daft right now.

2. Also like the idea of a scoring handicap. Don’t mess with people’s stats etc. Don’t like the idea that suddenly one team’s players are stronger/tougher than the other because their server is weaker, people should still be able to see on the map if their server is stronger. But handicap the scoring so each team has something to fight for.

3. I would also make it so if one server caps another’s fort the wXP reflects their relative glicko. It IS easier (on average of course) to cap a weaker server’s tower. This would also encourage transfer into the weakest servers since they would ALWAYS have a positive wXP bias and those who like good fights can go there to show what they are made of . Note: I’m not suggesting that T1 servers get less than T7 servers, just that, in each matchup, more wXP is given to weaker servers when they cap.

Fantastic 8hr stalemate between Cliffside and Garrison today. Good job Vabbi, you sieged that tower up good! Disappeared a couple of times for an hour or so only to return and find things just as they were! No way we could get into your tower. About 6 commanders must have had a go.

We did manage in the end, but honestly it was only when (finally) the numbers were substantially in our favour so we could build a treb in open field to tackle your ballistas. If numbers had stayed close to even I don’t think we would have managed it.

Thanks for the fun.

Yes, that works. You cannot see progress for upgrades which started before the reboot but it is preserved and if you get the workers on the case upgrades will complete on time.

DeadlySynz.3471:

No retaliation does not kill me (not even close), and I run full glass cannon.

Yeah, always been baffled by this one. Use LB all the time and never been downed by retaliation. Not a problem.

Shout out to WSR this week! Although most of our focus has been on the battle for first, behind the scenes it is you guys who are stomping up the ratings and good luck to you

For what it’s worth I think we (RoS) are down a bit from our peak, when several guilds decided to switch to us. Some of those have left again. But we still fit very nicely in the middle of the table with FR, UW, old rivals GH (although i think the current protected ranking kinda flatters them ) and RoF coming up too.

It’s a good place to be – we have had some of the best matchups since the new system came in – competitive and fun, even when we have lost!

How about this? Probably a bit rough around the edges, but maybe the germ of an idea!

- When someone requests an upgrade it goes to an upgrade panel which all on map can view.

- People have one minute to “join in” with the initiator on the upgrade

- People can do this manually or set to automatically join all upgrades up to a daily budget they define. When the budget is reached they can reset if they wish.

- upgrade cost split equally between all contributors

- contributors get a good dose of wXP when the upgrade completes in proportion to their contribution

- contributors get an income in proportion to their gold contribution each tick. (Fortify earns more than merchant!). For sake of argument, say you make a profit if your tower is held for more than 3 hours. If you contribute to a keep that is held all week you could make a good income!

People have an incentive to contribute. The rich can just set to automatically do it but the poor do not have a huge tax. There is also a real incentive to defend the towers you are funding.

Hadn’t really thought about the French Canadian thing. If that works for them (performance OK), why do we need English servers in 2 continents?

Your matchup is horrid. Should not be allowed to happen again.

But hopefully it won’t have a long term impact. Casuals are unlikely to remember/care about this week when it’s over and, provided similar matchups don’t happen again, the regulars will get over the trauma I am sure.

I see how your theoretical example works, but with the actual number of servers and points spread I don’t think it is as bad as you suggest. Yes, there will be problems at the bottom as there are now, and potentially at the top too, but there are enough teams in the middle and the spread is even enough that I think (although I haven’t simulated it!) the matchups should stay, shall we say “almost always”, within the desired range.

But is do agree the current range of the roll is too high.

Don’t agree with that. Love the week long matchups.

Remember also ranks 1-3 only need 1000 wXP each and rank 4 needs 2000. So it’s kind of fine that the rewards are lower.

Snowreap.5174:

this is a made-up example, of course, but the underlying point is the same: there are ‘natural’ rating gaps between groups of servers, and the only way for a server to cross these gaps if they become stronger or weaker is to play servers on the other side of the gap sometimes.

I get it but, looking at the actual ratings, I don’t think there is a danger of stagnation even with a reduced random variation.

The only exceptions are, as discussed before, the very bottom servers in EU,, to a lesser extent, the bottom server in NA. Even at the top there is at least some variety in the possible matchups and, frankly, these extreme examples are not fixable by any playing around with matchups. Something more drastic would be needed.

If you give things like karma and MF for orbs the top, serious, servers simply wouldn’t bother and the weaker servers, if any, would get the nerfs! (Or no one would bother at all and it would all net out) A points boost, counterbalanced by a stats nerf though might be interesting!

It’s so easy to aggro those mobs with greatsword leap (for swiftness). I do it all the time and deserve the scorn I get for it!

Not quite sure what you mean here. Not quite sure I understand Anet’s leaderboard! But, to explain what I mean, I think the difference in real glicko of 2 servers matched up should not be more than 250 (ish!). So, if I understand their method correctly (which I may not) the adjustment for any one server should not be more than +/- 125 (or the method could be adjusted). If I am reading you correctly the current system could match servers up to around 500 apart.

Of course, this won’t help those at the very bottom of the table (and possibly the top) but there is nothing short of server merger or some very drastic changes to point scoring that is going to help them!

Can I just say thank you, thank you, TY to Devon for the 1hr timer change!

This has made a huge difference to the life of defenders on our server – the willingness to invest in siege and the likelihood it might still be there if you disappear into real life for a bit. Perversely, I think it may have even encouraged people to tick siege, as it is less of a grind and you feel you might actually be making a difference, instead of just delaying the inevitable.

Thanks once again for a small but hugely valuable change

thiagoperne.7340:

Chris.3290:

They are going to hide the “outmanned buff” finally some good news from Mr. Carver.

How can you possible say that. Devon has been giving us good news since his arrival. And this is one more for the list, you could give him some more credit.

+1

Devon has shown enthusiasm and innovation and a keenness to engage with us. And when innovation causes problems he has been swift to acknowledge and fix (arrow cart buff).

The only thing you could acuse him of is being too quick to test out new ideas on the live population. But I’d take the current constant flux any day over a more conservative stagnant approach. The fact that others wouldn’t – that they would prefer a beta test for every small change to the game – and the fact for every change there are people arguing from all sides (except AC range!) just goes to show how hard the job is and why it is a cheap shot to slag of the devs because they don’t do what is so “obvious” to you.

Just to add a bit of diversity to this discussion, we (Ruins of Surmia) have had three of our best matchups (IMO) with this new system. Not because we have won – we have lost two and the one week we might just win (this week) we should be doing a lot better and are losing a shed load of rating points! – but because we have had interesting challenges against a variety of opponents.

The incredibly tight week against Underworld and Fort Ranik, where all three servers were within 900pts on the last morning was amazing. Leadership changing between all three servers all week. Last week we got pwned by Miller’s, but it was a real experience to see what life is like up there and we still had a good battle with our old rivals Gunners for 2nd. This week, we are are being taught not to take things for granted by a fiercely persistent Ring of Fire.

I am not saying just because it has worked for us there are not teething problems with the new system. I DO think too wide a range of servers are meeting and they should chop off the outer extremities of the bell curve, limiting matchups to +/- 250 glicko. We have been lucky that none of our matchups have been too extreme. But I am liking the variety and I do think this system can offer a better way than the old, very static one.

Fun matchup. Thx guys.

Full credit to both WSR and RoF for working your socks off this week

Sunspots.9861:

This system solves stagnation like a blender solves brain tumors.

You clearly haven’t read, or maybe understood, Anet’s comments on this change. At this stage in the process it was never intended to just address stagnation. It was specifically intended to mix things up and test the validity of current ratings. Now we can argue they mixed it up too much to start with and should certainly mix it up less now, I for one definitely agree with the latter. But this matching of teams with widely disparate, but low confidence, ratings was always a deliberate, but temporary, stage in the process.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

The matchups themselves aren’t as big a problem as the underlying Scoring and Rating System itself.

This is a recreational game activity not a competitive tournament where the chances are very high that matches will be imbalanced. The scoring system needs to have in-game mechanics that reward the weaker 2 Servers teaming up on the strongest and that funnel people into fights rather than away from them.

The current Rating System forces dominant Servers to squash opponents to maintain Rating (not good), encourages 2nd Place Servers to target the weakest Server to farm/maintain points/rating rather than fight the top Server, and rewards wXP Trains/Flipping way too much.

I’m not sure of the best ways to solve all these issues, but I have two suggestions to help balance scoring:

1) The 3rd Place Server in a match (by current score) receives Double Points for Objectives held in their own BL and EB
2) If the 1st Place Server’s Current Score exceeds a percentage threshold of the other two Servers – for example if Server 1 Score > 1.5 x (Server 2 Score + Server 3 Score) both other Servers receive Double Points for all holdings.

I’m sure many more ideas are out there but something really needs to be done.

The broad point you are making here I agree with. If fact I’ve made a similar suggestion in another thread – adjust scoring and even wXP according to glicko difference. lowest rated team does do a more impressive job if it captures an objective than the top rated team and should be rewarded accordingly. But those that dominate their matchups hate it! You can’t please everyone.

Top teams still would have the map and leaderboard to tell them how ace they are, but the scoring would give lower teams a goal and it may even encourage some good people to transfer to lower rated servers improving balance.

Sunspots.9861:

They aren’t reinventin NASCAR here, they are selling gems. Period. And believe it or not I can respect that if its honest,

You pay for the wvw experience you want in guildwars 2 , and if your somehow adverse to the concept of 40 to 80 gold per transfer, be preapared to have a crappy wvw experience every other week.

If seriously you are saying this whole rating/matchup system has been devised to sell gems for transfers I would say there are JFK/Twin Towers/Illuminati conspiracy nuts that could learn a thing or two from you

They make money by selling licences and holding on to players and they do this by developing the best, most engaging game they can. There are plenty of other ways they have to encourage gem sales without deliberately frustrating players with unbalanced and/or laggy gameplay!

Terrahero.9358:

Jong.5937:

Football teams don’t play the same 2 or 3 opponents every week! Just because you are number 1 doesn’t mean you only play number 2 or 3.

This isnt football. And the football competitions are made up of sub-division that are clumped together based on their performance. And they do not play outside of this division.
You dont see the nr1 of the premier play against some unknown amateur club.

The difference between the nr1 and the nr7 in GW2 however is huge, much bigger then the difference between the nr1 and nr7 in football.
And even the runt of the division occaisionally beats someone in the top5. Thats something that will never EVER happen in GW2.

Yeah, we all agree that the top servers should not play the bottom, cannot even now, and it will be even more limited when the formula is adjusted, as has already been said is in the works.

But no mixing it up? – just playing the teams closest in ranking is boring as hell and one up, one down wouldn’t help. And the new system has given us some surprise results, just as you say happens in other sports.

I do think this system can be the best option, once the formula is adjusted to limit potential opponents.

That was some kitten exotic!