What are u complaining about? If they are rushing with golems, do the same. Or u can’t do that and want to take fun form those ppl? They play what they want and how they want so stop this PPT QQing. Btw. leading this way they should disable rams too, cos it is too hard to defend against them when whole blob is covering rams during day
The stab change is great. Guardians and warriors are still usefull.
Working as intended.
Yeah, right. Warriors are still good for Banners, to rez the Driver when he gets pin-sniped. Great gameplay, i can’t wait to get on and play my Banner-bot. \s
Why should i play Warrior, when i can play my Necro and melt faces. I can’t remember the last time i was hit by a Hammer-stun, seriously.
Still a usefull class for removing/converting conditions, aoe healing shouts, aoe fury, vigor, swiftness and might. Aoe ressing banner.
Hammer stun was almost useless before the stab change because everyone had almost perma stab.
If you want to play necro then just play necro.
Emmm but tell me, who play workers now? I can easly point u…no1 every pug warrior run lb / rifle or something like that – that is what I saw today and that is why I quit commanding – sorry 10 mt not enough to hold up a bomb of 50 papers, also 1 fight for 30 mins is no fun at all Yes warriors are usefull but not with current new meta builds, they are just like heavy rangers now Hammer stun could hit, but u had to be skilled and take ur time with it, now u can just spam it( during guild fights) to remove stabil.
Yeah, stab only wrecks the gameplay of melee builds, so you are right, it is not really a big deal.
Yeah, so due to changes no1 play meele now ;D today we had 10 mt and 50 papers or range builds for warriors and guards And the whole thing was about running next to each other while bombing for 30 mins when enemy mt got closer we just spammed em with hundreds of ccs and they had to rush back, and this repeated every 0,5 min
Meta – no longer mt meta, now it is pirate ship in other words AA meta cos of stabil changes. Also ppl are blobing much more than before Why? cos with new stabillity bigger blob – > easier win
Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.
So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.
This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.
So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.
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Ive been fighting for this server for over 2years now and its starting to upset me that my server no longer plays to win the match up.. Theres a matchup forum website where guilds argue and scold one another for “PPTtryharding”, so now we have many great guilds who dont give a crap about PPT.. Our pugs try to hold what tick and upgraded keeps they have but cant hold off against the enemy zergs.. Now our top guilds sit outside stonemist or each other’s keeps waiting for the enemies to show up for a fight. They dont care that we’re whispering them for help in our borderlands. I just dont understand why they cant cap points, defend and find fights at the same time.
U need to split WvW into 2 things. PPT and OF or GvGing. At walls u can’t move ur guild etc. also no1 want to fight against acs and brainlessly push gates. Next thing is that everyone play what they want right? U wanna PPT so play PPT, guilds want gvg and of so let em do that Or just ask Anet ppl to make of / gvg arena for us Don’t mention OS, cos only 1 guild can fight at specific moment and this holds up for 50 players only – at my server is 8-12 gvg guilds so they won’t fit there
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA…Sooooooo U wanna make wvw more pve? GO EOTM u already made it into PVE MAP. Ohhhh w8, it would be nice after all, guilds may have a chance for free lootbags in certain places
Wondering if it would make sense to have 6 active borderlands instead of 3, each map with the cap set to half what it is now? Barring any technical limitations preventing Anet from implementing this it seems like this could help with a couple issues: 1) Blobs would generally be smaller (maybe not an issue, more of a personal preference) and 2) it would likely help with skill lag considering skill lag is a function ( O(n^2) ) of how many people are running around in a region of the map. I’m sure there are downsides. Any thoughts?
1. of all it would be impossible – atm only gold servers have queue, bronze servers have 80 ppl at all – vabbi maybe 10 per border. So making 6 borders will split them into even smaller groups and spoil whole fun – it would be nice for ogld servers tho. U wrote that ppl might stop blobbing…They will never do that At the moment with this meta u blob u win 2. More maps, more calculating etc. – IT WOULDN’T HELP SERVERS AT ALL. The lag will be much bigger. And again, u will have 100 groups of players ta other maps – for example deso have 50 queue at each border with 3 borders, so giving em 3 more borders they will lbob other maps That is all i think.
Or the other thing, give more stacks / more skills with stabil – mobile skills, cos u can;t just stay get stabil and die in bomb ;P Also they should nerf ccs to less ppl – like static to max 5 or line of warding, and current ccs like earthshake to 3 for exmaple. This owuld balance, cos atm anet just gave this update, didn’t nerf any cc and bah here we go :P As i said they probably had at mind that Revenant have lot of stabs so they needed to make it like that, but forgot to give mroe stab to old classes / less targets for cc skills
Kasteros. first of all. Please TRY to use something better then google translate. Every post you make has more smilies and worse grammar then the previous one.
Second of all, they did not think only of Revenant. When the expansion comes out, the old professions will get access to specializations. This will give them access to new traits, new utilities, new weapons etc… in short, expansion pack will add a total of 1 brand new class and 9 new optional classes. This means you get a massive variety, Revenant is not going to be the only one “profiting” from this change to stability, the other specializations surely will too.
Sorry I’m not native speaker of English, but anet don’t support my language so i need to use that As u pointed WHEN EXPANSION COMES OUT, what about current situation? Read it up again( even with my poor English u should understand). I wrote that atm u can’t do much with current traits and skills. Anet didn’t think it out and just changed stab withotu considering other things. And to 3. thing, as u admited anet is just forcing us to buy expanion in order to play with stabillity – but let’s not speak about it here Cos we should discuss stab changes in this topic. So to sum up( again) Anet gave us stab without any tests with players( they test it with 5 devs against 5 art designers or something like that ) and without any idea about situation. As i wrote, they should nerf cc skills aswell or buff stabillity charges and cds / give more stabil skils – skilsl that don’t requier u to stay in 1 place and get whole bomb.
Or the other thing, give more stacks / more skills with stabil – mobile skills, cos u can;t just stay get stabil and die in bomb ;P Also they should nerf ccs to less ppl – like static to max 5 or line of warding, and current ccs like earthshake to 3 for exmaple. This owuld balance, cos atm anet just gave this update, didn’t nerf any cc and bah here we go :P As i said they probably had at mind that Revenant have lot of stabs so they needed to make it like that, but forgot to give mroe stab to old classes / less targets for cc skills
I just raided yesterday and the stab changes really arnt that bad. I had to pay attention to my stacks more and switch to dolyak signet but otherwise everything was okay. I did get cced a bit more than usual tho.
What these changes really do is punish people who arn’t organized. Because you need a stab rotation now more than ever. Pugs are not organized enough to do this because they are pugs and can run whatever party setup or class they want.
I think that since these changes have just been introduced, we havent’ seen the full power of them yet. I think it will actually favor organized groups more in the end. Just wait til sanctuary becomes meta again and thats 12 targetless CC’s just from your guardians alone between line of warding and sanctuary.
This also punish zergs against blobsPug comms aren’t tagging aswell cos u can;t co-operate stab with randoms.
Stability changes are bad. You cannot outrun anymore zergs. You ’’ ll die easily.
This game is purely becoming a game of numbers and not skills.
I miss gw2 first daysGame of numbers? Nah, it is a game of dishonest whinners in my opinon.
if your so SKILLED, why do you need stability as your crutch? I will tell you why. Because you were no where near as skilled as you claim to be. This so called “skill”, was nothing more then stacking of the most OP build on the most OP professions,
All of this “wah is me. The sky is falling because they took my OP crutch away” whinning takes away any hope you had of claiming “skill” to validate anything.
I think several people have pointed out, in reasoned tones, why they think this is a bad change for wvw. The counter argument appears to be “LOL L2P NOOB”. Which is at best non-substantive and at worse just trolling.
How about you go away, think about it, and come back with why you think the stability change makes WvW a better place.
I already did my friend. Threw up my pin on my engineer last night for hours. Used some new tactics and thrived. Do not get angry at me because they removed your crutch and it crippled you, while some of us adjusted, thrived, and enjoyed it.
Lol. I’m not angry with you at all. But you still haven’t said why it’s a good change. Instead you basically said that you are awesome and I need to get over my crutch. Which may be true, but doesn’t explain why the change is good for more people.
Actually, I ha e been very specific about it. You are simply obtusely ignoring it. As I said before. I felt it was an over powered crutch that allowed players to ignore entire utility skill sets of many professions. As well, every single profession has vast CC options. Every profession does not have vast access to stability. Personally, after my experience with the adjustments I made last night, I am baffled by some of the complaints here. Folks are crying because the keep repeating the same tactics and they are not working. I make adjustments with successful results and am attacked because I didn’t join in the pity party.
Did u adjust with meele? I bet u didn’t U just simply play same paper stuff like always, but this time u have ur cc succefully landed It wasn’t over power stuff, if u were skileld u could put it down for 5 players with necro – cb meta for example.
Engineer? ENGINEER? AHAHAHAHAH get into meele man with standard worker warrior – hammer / sword+wh, and FGJ, SIO, BS and banner. Go ahead and we will see if u can survive LOL Also stand against at last 60 man blob with ur group
U adjusted to same thing u did before patch – going around and bomb, or pick up all survi skills and spam 1 lol
Engineer is better in melee range, not that I would expect you to know that since you seem to only play guardian. He was smart about the patch and adapted his build and strat. You expected to still be carried by the build you picked on metabattle and would like us to acknowledge you “skill” on top of that. That’s not even a l2p issue at this point: that’s a natural selection issue.
I have been playing engi for 1,5 year And i know how much he can do, also actually i play warrior And Engi can;t do as much as wariror or guardian. He took engi, maybe let’s make him spare his MEELE build with us. Cos the only thing to work in meele without stab is most likely this build: tool kit + elixir S + Elixir S from traits some elixir to clear condi, google or oil and to that some survi elite skill like juggernaut, addictionaly in a place of oil he could take flamethrower with +200 T trait and give enemy burning that last 0,2 sec with melandru and food. THos are only survi skills, where are some supporting skills?Where is some dmg? Once again, engi can;t do a kitten in meele without getting himself insta killed and rallybot. If it would be about surviving in meele only then warrior woudl be best – 2x EP + DS + Berserker and Balance stances and utility – rampage. And maybe taht is how current meele shoudl play, pirate ship meta with papers killing enemy papers and meele running around like chicken without head, but the point is taht u can;t wipe blob with this strategy. Thsi isn’t about surviving, but about doing something. U can’t do a kitten while doging and tryint to not get killed Also not a single comm want to lead pugs now Why? Cos 1. he get over bored at fights, 2. not a single meele at him( maybe comm should be eles now?), 3. he can only sit and watch how numbers kill each others and stay in some cc cos of spam of it
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
Stability changes are bad. You cannot outrun anymore zergs. You ’’ ll die easily.
This game is purely becoming a game of numbers and not skills.
I miss gw2 first daysGame of numbers? Nah, it is a game of dishonest whinners in my opinon.
if your so SKILLED, why do you need stability as your crutch? I will tell you why. Because you were no where near as skilled as you claim to be. This so called “skill”, was nothing more then stacking of the most OP build on the most OP professions,
All of this “wah is me. The sky is falling because they took my OP crutch away” whinning takes away any hope you had of claiming “skill” to validate anything.
I think several people have pointed out, in reasoned tones, why they think this is a bad change for wvw. The counter argument appears to be “LOL L2P NOOB”. Which is at best non-substantive and at worse just trolling.
How about you go away, think about it, and come back with why you think the stability change makes WvW a better place.
I already did my friend. Threw up my pin on my engineer last night for hours. Used some new tactics and thrived. Do not get angry at me because they removed your crutch and it crippled you, while some of us adjusted, thrived, and enjoyed it.
Engineer? ENGINEER? AHAHAHAHAH get into meele man with standard worker warrior – hammer / sword+wh, and FGJ, SIO, BS and banner. Go ahead and we will see if u can survive LOL Also stand against at last 60 man blob with ur group It is easy to play paper now lol, the point is about heavy meele, since they need to hold enemy group. The only way now is to play pirate ship meta and all go range weapons Like we did yesterday, fight for 40 mins but we won afetr this and lost almost everything at eb due to blbo of otehr server U adjusted to same thing u did before patch – going around and bomb, or pick up all survi skills and spam 1 lol
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
He have proofs form wiki and streams, that is my conclusion as well.
Alright, I’m going to present a hypothetical situation here for you, a chance for you to be put into Arenanet’s shoes.
You have a much hyped expansion being worked on, and are going to give your hungry players a sneak peek at the new class being developed. Do you…
A: Err on the side of caution and use a well-balanced, perhaps even a little underbalanced build of the class, so that no one panics about it being broken, but also no one will be especially excited at the chance to play it.
Or…
B: Go all out and throw out a broken test build to help encourage hype, showing off things like ‘Stability after dodge with no internal cooldown’ and ‘Stunbreak by using Legend swap with no internal cooldown’ and get everyone even more excited about what will come when they spend their money.
You’re going to pick B. It’s the smart business decision. That said, the things I mentioned are almost certainly going to be nerfed by the time the actual release comes, and that’s fine. But it’s no cause to panic. They’re just starting out broken before refining it into balance.
And as i wrote, they won’t do that Cos 1. It affect WvWers – they don’t care about us and 2. The more op class the more ppl buy it to not be at disadvantage ;P I’m exctited to play this, since it will balance current stabil changes – that is more than sure, if not then give me 2, 2 reasons why they changed it after almost 3 years. Just 2 reasons pls( that make sense…). Cos i can give u 2 atm:
- make revenant much more op,if they make him more op and needed, more ppl will buy expansions – profit for anet from WvWers
- nerf guilds / zergs vs blobs, cos how can smaller group of more experienced and skilled players kill a group of much more and brainless players?! This can’t be!
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
So it wil be P2W now As u proven new specializations and Revenant will be much better than current classes so it is basically what i meant, they are forcing players to quit the game( who want to get killed by some lows who gave away their money to anet for low expansion) or buy expanion( to kill those low players who tought that they could be better without skill by buying expansion ) Thx for next proof man :P
Stability changes are bad. You cannot outrun anymore zergs. You ’’ ll die easily.
This game is purely becoming a game of numbers and not skills.
I miss gw2 first daysGame of numbers? Nah, it is a game of dishonest whinners in my opinon.
if your so SKILLED, why do you need stability as your crutch? I will tell you why. Because you were no where near as skilled as you claim to be. This so called “skill”, was nothing more then stacking of the most OP build on the most OP professions,
All of this “wah is me. The sky is falling because they took my OP crutch away” whinning takes away any hope you had of claiming “skill” to validate anything.
LOL man, go play meele against blob, we will see how smart u are. U can;t do anything with this new stabil, cos u lose 5 stacks before getting close to 1200 range. Also stabil wasn;t such OP u had it for short time during clashes and this oculd be taken easly by necros etc. But ofcourse PAPERS wanted changes, so now everyone will play as rnage paper and we will see how funny it will be to bomb by range lol. This change didn’t affect zerg vs zerg much, but zerg vs blob is imposible now even for best guilds – as i saw at chemso TA was rushing and winning only cos of over huge numbers in mt that coudl cover stabil and ccs at enemy blob – not like they weren’t blobing with 37 ppl :P So kitten man and try it out, then comment, u probably don’t even play in mt so u don’t know a thing about it now. Also lol try to charge enemy without stabil U won’t even reach em That is why u needed stabillity, to get pass massive kitten of ccs from blobs. And yes now it is game of numbers, simple calculation: 60 ppl against 20, who win? Ofcourse 60, why? COs of 3x more stabil, 3x more ccs Earlier this didn;t matter u had to care about dmg and condi only, now u stay not only in immo but also in ccs
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
But some ppl like Sorel claim that this update isn’t made to make Revenant totally op and force us to buy expansion
I do hope I’m right
We have more than enough, look at what this dude wrote
The revenant hasn’t been released yet. It isn’t even in a beta test yet. I guarantee a ton of those skills will change between now and HoT release. That’s why we don’t know enough to decide yet whether it is actually going to be OP.
Well I don’t think they change much, since they want profits form expanion. More op class – more ppl buy expansion – simple strategy tbh. Also they don’t care about WvWers so they won’t change anything related to him that might influence WvW :P
Would this not be better served in the WvW sub-forum, then? Or, at least, HoT?
Good luck.
ps: Nothing is set in stone, yet…might want to wait before succumbing to being ‘forced’ to do anything. ; )
Yeah posting thsi in HoT might be better, but the point is that no1 check this subforum also as i saw lot of players write stuff like thsi at map chat
A player told you…
Don’t trust players.
He have proofs form wiki and streams, that is my conclusion aswell. Just think of it, look at revenants skills – not only those that are linked here, chek out dulfy.net for all revenants revealed skills. I’m juts much more aware now cos of his words and as i know Anet’s statemant for players they might do it actually – i mean stuff " Wanna play WvW? Go ahead, buy expansion, create revenant class and u will have everything u need to wipe blobs again"
No one knows how it will work out, or what changes they’re making to the other professions, and often this sort of analysis turns out to be untrue after people start to play the game. Until the meta reforms, no one will really know anything.
But if you like the game, and you’re not buying the expansion, you’ll be at a disadvantage anyway, just by having less options than others.
Well idc about pve options like masteries etc. I care about changes taht lead to make NEW class much better than old 1 and that is what I’m aware of. As u could read everything in stabil changes lead to Revenant’s skills
Now that the traited Blink is fixed you could actually portal bomb in stealth through all those CCs (or just bait the portal) and run them through with veil. The coordination will be tricky, but good guilds should be able to pull it off.
Ehhhh there is not problem against zergs, there is problem against blobs or even 10 more ppl in enemy group than u have. Also portal bomb would be nice, but imagine situation where enemy find out the portal and put whole bomb there like they used to do anytime they was it.
But some ppl like Sorel claim that this update isn’t made to make Revenant totally op and force us to buy expansion
I do hope I’m right
We have more than enough, look at what this dude wrote
Ok so… in the 1 of topics(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stability-changes-general/page/5#post4893524) guy named Kicast made me totally worry about this game and Anet’s attitude to players. Basically he wrote how much op Revenant will be and how much those changes with stabillity are made to boost him into op machine that will be the only playable heavy class at WvW. Why? Here is article that he wrote:
“There will be solution to beat zergs:
Knock Them down to death to make it impossible for them to react
Impossible today because you cannot come close to the zerg to land the current aoe KD as they are close range skills. (Yes there is static field and line of warding but it apply only on the line and thus makes it not possible to apply on a whole static zerg)
But in few months you will be able to:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_the_Hammer
=>AOE KD
=>1200 range
=>radius 240…lol radius 240 (equivalent to traited symbol for guards)
=>15 sec cool down (don’t hesitate to abuse it)
Little difficulty with some control abuse on you ?
No problem:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retribution_%28trait_line%29
=> dodging machine (endurance when struck)
=> stab on dodge
=> retal on dodge
and
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement
=> 6 sec duration aoe stab pulse
=> 5 sec cool down
=> perma stab pulse ???
Want to engage without risk ? No problem:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Smash
=> 1200 range
=> TP chill/damage and then come back
=> 8 sec CD
In top of that: 2 blast finishers on the same weapons 8 sec and 15 sec cd
Once ennemy front line KD….rush with unblockable attacks while negating ennemy range attacks:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Hammers
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Field_of_the_Mists
Or if you prefer to keep safe at range:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin (2 sec CD)
Note: cooldown of skills have also to take into account the energy management but if it is as well balanced as thief initiative it should not be a real issue.
The zerg detroyer profession will come soon…when it’s ready….keep fingers crossed
Reading it…I feel I deserve some retribution from Anet from so much advertising…but don’t be mistaken…I am 100% against brokenly OP classes…it ruins the game in the end.”
Basically all u need atm to beat blobs / zergs at WvW- perma stabil, perma dodge, op range dmg, lot of ccs etc. etc. So I’m asking you ANET, Am I right to say that u are forcing us to buy expansion in order to play WvW? Cos as it is now not a single meele heavy can do anything, Why? Go to link that i posted in () at top of this post or play a bit against blob as meele( for example hammer / sword+wh warrior ). Also next proof that THIS change is for Revenant: Adept Trait | Enduring Recovery |10 |Chance when struck to gain endurance - this wouldn’t pump up many times with old stabil right? For more proof just read what this guy wrote or go to wiki and check out released revenant skills and traits
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
There will be solution to beat zergs:
Knock Them down to death to make it impossible for them to react
Impossible today because you cannot come close to the zerg to land the current aoe KD as they are close range skills. (Yes there is static field and line of warding but it apply only on the line and thus makes it not possible to apply on a whole static zerg)
But in few months you will be able to:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_the_Hammer
=>AOE KD
=>1200 range
=>radius 240…lol radius 240 (equivalent to traited symbol for guards)
=>15 sec cool down (don’t hesitate to abuse it)Little difficulty with some control abuse on you ?
No problem:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retribution_%28trait_line%29
=> dodging machine (endurance when struck)
=> stab on dodge
=> retal on dodge
and
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement
=> 6 sec duration aoe stab pulse
=> 5 sec cool down
=> perma stab pulse ???Want to engage without risk ? No problem:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Smash
=> 1200 range
=> TP chill/damage and then come back
=> 8 sec CDIn top of that: 2 blast finishers on the same weapons 8 sec and 15 sec cd
Once ennemy front line KD….rush with unblockable attacks while negating ennemy range attacks:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Hammers
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Field_of_the_MistsOr if you prefer to keep safe at range:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin (2 sec CD)Note: cooldown of skills have also to take into account the energy management but if it is as well balanced as thief initiative it should not be a real issue.
The zerg detroyer profession will come soon…when it’s ready….keep fingers crossed
Reading it…I feel I deserve some retribution from Anet from so much advertising…but don’t be mistaken…I am 100% against brokenly OP classes…it ruins the game in the end.
But some ppl like Sorel claim that this update isn’t made to make Revenant totally op and force us to buy expansion
Before the patch a good team could cut a even 2 times bigger zerg in pieces, but day 1 after the patch it s over.
5 times wipe because stability was gone in 0,5sek and after that -> r.i.p.
It was clearly said from the wvw – experts before the patch, that if the remove of stability is to easy, the whole wvw will change.
And here we go and it will getting much much more boring.
the opposite is happening, now people have to ajust, and maybe some will not stack and spread more to not eat the whole cc, there are so many option to avoid CC but with stability everyone ignores it, now they must pay attention and that cannot be boring.
Ok lot of options, say me, how to avoid 50+ ccs spread everywhere and additional 30 that are send at mt? Just calculate, blob is 60+ they usually have 10 eles, 20 guards, 10 necros etc. etc. Guards can throw line of warding and with hammer put sanctuary. Eles throw statics while necros use fear and boons removal – anotehr thing to completly remove stabil Now try to think how 10 mt can handle it? It doesn;t matter where they go, they will get ccs anyway and while negaging they get tons of it. That is the point, U CAN’T HANDLE BLOB WITH ZERG ANYMORE. It is just game of numbers now, not a skill anymore.
Looks like no1 look here and all discuss in WvW section https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stability-changes-general/page/5#post4892966 . Devs i suggest u to go there and read a bit Or at last SAY SOMETHING to WvWers.
Maybe we’ll see portal bombing make a return. Maybe zergs have to spread out more and fight across several fronts to avoid eating ALL the CC with the entire zerg.
Smaller groups can fight larger groups effectively with hit n run, no longer can the larger zerg simply charge straight at you with impunity, you can actually CC them.This change is less then 48h old. Let’s see how it plays out and how players adept before we change everything back to maintain the meta we’ve been having for about two years already.
That is what zergs do lol, they run MT and Papers + Focus party. But what to do when whole MT is eaten by 30 mt from enemy with 3x more ccs and stabil stacks? U just have to stay and 8 till u die, cos u can’t escape when they rush u. After this patch guilds had at last 2 raids( like me) and u know what? U CAN’T HANDLE BLOB AT ALL. Zerg vs zerg is fine and nice, but atm almost all are blobing cos it is easier. But ofcourse anet do everything to stop ppl blobing
I’m wondering how some people functioned on the frontline before the change if the new stab is a deal breaker. Did you really just into the opposing train without worrying about evading damage and CC because of your stab? If so then the old stab needed to go because it encouraged bad habits.
Stab didn’t go anywhere, you actually have to be away of what’s going on around you now. Your shouldn’t be running blindingly into CCs in the first place. If anything you eat CC so your backline/damage can do its thing. Some peo0le act like it was their stab that was changed, not everyone’s.
The groups that adapt and don’t settle with this “pirate meta” (who the hell came up with that) are going to be ones who wipe the floor with zergs.
LOOOOOL man, 1. of all ppl were aware of ccs and dmg, but now u can’t even get into range of 1200 against blob cos u insta lose all ur stacks of stabil. It isn’t about watching the field, it is about cc number at the side and now who have more ccs he win, simple now? If u don’t trust me, go ahead and try it Ppl were complaining about blobs, now ALL that i see at maps are blobs( for example: yesterday we had our raid, dfs and commander with pugs( deso side), against gh+sfrj blob from fsp and pug blob from sfr, we couldn’t do anything cos of lack of stabil, the only startegy was to run around and range bomb, but then tons of ccs was throwed at us we could just kitten ourself with our 10 man mt). Ppl just quit playing in zergs cos why to do that? U just get insta killed by blobs So don’t give me kitten like “adapt”, u can’t adapt at all, unless u get Revenant with hundreds of stabil – probably that is why they made this change, to bump up Revenant’s worth and force ppl to buy expansion
I am a warrior from TC. Therefore i am in the melee train in the frontline… and all i can say is…i LOVED the update until now.
I tested yesterday in EB and we had a few fights against TWL with really big numbers…and we won some..and lost some…but we won quite a few with less numbers…
The best part about this update is now i can see how a stun hammer really matters when properly landed…
Before update you could land right over the stack and noone would get stunned or downed.. and today if you land it properly at least a few will get stunned and then downed…
So it feels a lot better to be there stunning when you get to see the result of it..
Ok so the stacks vanishes in secs..but it is up to you and your group to use them wisely..
Before update fights would go on and on with multiple bombs with only the ppl not in ts/mumble or not coordinated getting downed until eventually one side messed up and got stomped…
With this new patch things are faster..any miss step you take and ablot of downs.. you can see downs on 1st and 2nd push already and lots of stun and interrupt..
That makes fight more interesting.. you gotta stay more focused and every move REALLY matters now..
So what if meta gonna change..
Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…
All it takes now is for you to take care and engage carefully…
Glass cannon frontline builds for sure gonna fail…gonna need to be tanky…but since i am already tanky…34k hp 3.1k armor…I LIKE IT..
I m not there to hit 10k…im there to BOMB and help the backline do their thing…Just my toughts
Yeah, but how this warrior can strike eles when he get 20 ccs on his face?
I would say it was 25-35 on our side kitten on their side and eventually even sides…
And sorry to say but if you cant find out how to hit the backline reroll cause you are a bad frontline anyway…or get a descent commander… one that doenat just yell push right jnto them and bomb… cause that will make you die…but there are ways around that strategy..
And yesterday on most fights i had…they had a lot of ranged dps and our frontline still managed to get right where we needed to get and BOMB the kitten out of them… just likevthey did to us some time later on the next fight…
It is a matter of who stay focused and does everything more coordinated..but with one basic difference..
Every bomb from the frontline now REALLY matters and you MUST avoid them if you are ranged…and you MUST land them if you are melee…
Quite simple
Yeah against similar numbers it is fine Next thing is that I fought agianst TA lot of times and survived till the end so I’m not such bad “frontliner”( wtf is this? Some NA type of MT?). Next thing is that u can’t roll line u can get pass it with stab or go around – going away form ur rl means u die instantly U also miss the point. We are talking baout zerg vs blob fights not zerg vs zerg cos here u basically have similar numbers and similar stuff
I am a warrior from TC. Therefore i am in the melee train in the frontline… and all i can say is…i LOVED the update until now.
I tested yesterday in EB and we had a few fights against TWL with really big numbers…and we won some..and lost some…but we won quite a few with less numbers…
The best part about this update is now i can see how a stun hammer really matters when properly landed…
Before update you could land right over the stack and noone would get stunned or downed.. and today if you land it properly at least a few will get stunned and then downed…
So it feels a lot better to be there stunning when you get to see the result of it..
Ok so the stacks vanishes in secs..but it is up to you and your group to use them wisely..
Before update fights would go on and on with multiple bombs with only the ppl not in ts/mumble or not coordinated getting downed until eventually one side messed up and got stomped…
With this new patch things are faster..any miss step you take and ablot of downs.. you can see downs on 1st and 2nd push already and lots of stun and interrupt..
That makes fight more interesting.. you gotta stay more focused and every move REALLY matters now..
So what if meta gonna change..
Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…
All it takes now is for you to take care and engage carefully…
Glass cannon frontline builds for sure gonna fail…gonna need to be tanky…but since i am already tanky…34k hp 3.1k armor…I LIKE IT..
I m not there to hit 10k…im there to BOMB and help the backline do their thing…Just my toughts
Yeah, but how this warrior can strike eles when he get 20 ccs on his face? The point is that u can’t reach papers with ur meele train. That is 1. argument. 2. as u typed u had really big numbers against really big numbers( 40 vs 50?) What I talk about is 20 vs 60( u can;t do this anymore) and 60 vs 60 – pugs( u just insta die).
Engineer – no survi skill, his only place can be fp( he can’t support as much as ele or necro and can;t stay up in meele) but while being there he get…insta kileld cos of no survi skills
Rangers – Same situation like with engineer, no support group skills at all.
Thieves? They are used in gvg groups
Mesmers? MOST IMPORTANT PART OF GUILD GROUP MANOk you make some good points, and I was somewhat exaggerating. And about mesmers, yes they are important (and imo the most fun to play in a zerg fight), but you usually only bring 2 or 3. Nothing like guardians. Furthermore, you have to admit that the stability changes COULD make some professions more viable, for example thief (venomshare). I play on Augury Rock (EU) btw.
The only way of adaptation is this “pirate ship” meta, but fight like this last for 20-30 mins without any1 winning cos no1 want to push
Well it’s a bit early to know that for sure. TA vs LAG still uses the same GWEN meta builds, while the stab change was huge. We’ll need more time to come up with new builds. The problem with pirate ship is that the fights take too long and you have almost no way to prevent rezzes.
As i typed it is easy for u to say “adapt” since u probably main some range class that stay away and is happy now cos u can cc em as much as u want.
Hardly. My four mains are in that order engi, thief, warrior and mesmer, so no luck for me here. You have to understand that some players are not heavily profession-biased, since GW2 allows you to master many professions rapidly.
There is reaosn why u bring max 2 mesmers, mt need to stay compact and numberous to hold enemy mt pression. Also not many ppl play mesmers at wvw tho sometimes we don’t even have 1 even if we would liek to have him :P As i said i have spend lot of time thinkng what to do with this new stabil, the only idea i got was pirate ship meta nothing more. Cos if u get more mt( IF u get em, cos it is hard to find ppl who want to raid with guild) u will have more ppl but in same numbers this don’t make diffrence. Thiefs with venoms, yes, they are fine, but they won’t help with stabil lack, u just lose it anyway even if u stun enemy. I even wanted to check melandru, they give shorter stun durration, this don’t help much either – cos u might get shoerter stuns ,but still get too many of them. Finally break stuns adnd every possible stabil skill, nothing. HG form guards might be helpfull but u won’t stand a chance to stay in it( there is also immobilize that u need to rememeber about and which make u stay in bomb – if not stun then this condi).
So basically as i found at borders, no comms( no1 want to lead at guard or warrior – everyone knwo why) only necros / eles / rangers etc. at maps, around 5-10 meele at all Cos of this change probably a lot of good guards and wariror quit the game or swap to papers, same goes for commanders and WvW will change to another eotm karma train or something like that cos who want to fight a lost fight for 30 mins or longer with this “pirate ship meta”
My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob
I see you want to continue in this pro360noscope fashion. Very well. I literally never saw a single thread about that on this sub forum. The GvG community seriously need to stop thinking that Anet thinks about it every time they balance something in the game.
I believe that Anet thought about nerfing the zerg tactics in general, as well as how over-powered stability was in WvW. Have you ever seen a single engineer in your “skilled” zergs? Ask yourself why. Hint: (no stab).
Rangers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Thieves? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Mesmers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)Ok, WvW is unbalanced. Ok, the game is balanced about small scale. But if guardian was as brokenly OP in pvp as it was last week in WvW, imagine the kittenstorm on the pvp subforum! So you lost because you sticked to your GWEN outdated meta? Adapt or get rekt, that’s the tough law of WvW.
Actually there are other reasons( at last for guilds)
Engineer – no survi skill, his only place can be fp( he can’t support as much as ele or necro and can;t stay up in meele) but while being there he get…insta kileld cos of no survi skills
Rangers – Same situation like with engineer, no support group skills at all.
Thieves? They are used in gvg groups
Mesmers? MOST IMPORTANT PART OF GUILD GROUP MAN
Idk where u play but i gave u how it look in EU meta. Everything here is balanced by group skills. Ranger and engii can;t give anything to group so they are useless.
Guardians wasn’t such op, u could easly take them down durgiong clashed, but u probably didn’t knwo how NO1 wil ladapt to this new stabil meta, at last not gaianst blobs, u just can’t with ur stabil melting in few secs, no tactic at all, cos blob just rush u and hit u untill u lose stabil, then u will have gg Earlier, u could survive cos u had stab and didn’t stay behinde, now it is imposible The only way of adaptation is this “pirate ship” meta, but fight like this last for 20-30 mins without any1 winning cos no1 want to push and it is boring( look TA vs LAG gvg ) . As i typed it is easy for u to say “adapt” since u probably main some range class that stay away and is happy now cos u can cc em as much as u want. But just w8 till u get bored of this or when mt get enough of this and swap to papers U won;t have such much fun with being killed by enemy mt that strike without any1 opposing them
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
No more 100+ blobs in WvW? I might actually play WvW now…
It is opposite, much more 100+ blobs
HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks
Ok, first of all, let’s drop the 1v1-quickscope-at-dragon slang, thank you.
You’re right on something: I don’t have the definitive answer to your current issues, because:
1) The patch was yesterday and no one has had time to adapt yet
2) I’m not a commander in a “super duper amazing guild”. I’m merely a humble WvW player who gives an opinion on the game mode, providing arguments.Yes, three times larger zergs have three times the cc and three times the stab, that seems like a reasonable assumption. My question is: are you a “skilled player” if you try to fight a zerg three times the size of yours using the same strategy this larger blob uses? Do you see me complaining about losing against three pew pew rangers if I stand still and RF one of them (that’s the reason I don’t play ranger btw)? You gotta be smart m8! Get skilled, train with your guild and earn your victory.
Man I’m skilled, we were trying lot of strategies, but nothing worked against blob. We faked rush, were running around avoiding clash and letting our papers bomb them and much more diffrent stuff, but nothing worked. Against our range bobm they answered with their range bomb and range ccs then clasehd us with their meele. In asnwer to our fake push they just put statics, fear, lines all around us and we couldn’t do anything with out 10 mt. My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob and also to show that Revenant is op and needed( cos of his stabillity spam) – you need to buy expansions in other words.
the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything
Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.
HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks
AOE limit still applies. only 4 CCs matters, fear wall, line of warding, ring of warding and static field. ALL other CC is limited to AOE cap of 5. Meaning you get an easier time.
Smaller groups can use TWO venomshare thieves and that will give 4x STUN to ALL players affected (2x from each)…. and 6x immob…. meaning, venomshare thief now serves a function as a CC multiplier.
Use mantra mesmer for AOE stunbreak (2-3 AOE stunbreaks). This will help immensely for groups that cannot spam stunbreaks on all utility slots.
1 mesmer can in theory save 15 players with ONE utility, meaning they can still take portal, veil and mass invis.
Yep but man, if u get 10 statics( blob usually have 10+ eles) u can’t do a kitten. Also venomshare is fine, but try to find thiefs that will play it? No fun a tall Only GH use it as i know. Also here u get to my points, the whole thing now is about papers, not mt like it used to be, mt is now decoration to STAY and w8 till papers do their role as role i mean kill enemy papers.
I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully.
I don’t know what’s your point here? These are exactly the same things you have to consider as a guild if you want to fight against a larger force. You have to kite, have to use LoS and have to time you bursts carefully. Futhermore you have to coordinate a whole group and time you attacks and retreats as a unit. If only one player is failing he’s dead.
I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.
There is a huge different between a 5vs5 courtyard match and a 20vs20 GvG. In a 5vs5 you have less CC’s sometimes none. And the stacks you get from a stability utility is mostly enough to go trough the CC.
In a 20vs20 fight will be always some kind of CC, you can’t wait until all is used because in this time there will be new CC’s available and you have way more CC’s than you have stability.The problem is not to get the downed player to death, the problem is to get a player downed in the pirateship meta. If a players goes down he’s pretty much dead unless he gets a banner. Because if he goes in downed state there will be a huge bomb from the caster on him. If the other group try to ress him they will instant CC’ed and get also bomb to death. The same goes in the other direction if you produce a downstate on the enemys side you can’t push on him and cleave him down, because if you do that you get CC’ed and bombed down.
So in the end it will be pretty much a standoff.the new strategy is then to counter nuke or save stability until it matters (such as VS static and ring of warding rather then simple hammer spams and line of warding which all can be negated by blinds, aegis or simply walking in another direction.
Really man, fighting zerg now isn;t such hard, the probalem occur when enemy have even 5 more mt than u have – cos of simple outnumber of ccs and stabil. As i know guild were playing this way earlier – i mean saving stab for static fields etc., but now even if u do so u lose lot of stacks before u reach enemy mt.
I can tell u much more simple tactic against zergs: everyone from mt play as ele / necro now and cc enemy mt before it reach em with 5 statics u can outplay guardians
(edited by Kasteros.9847)
the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything
Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.
HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t. Now anet just forced us to blob up and cut down skilled players – even when u are super duper amazing guild u can;t wipe blbo now by simple calculation taht i presented few times( basically by spamming aoe ccs and satb in blob).
(edited by Kasteros.9847)