We have to wait until resistance is launched before we can evaluate the whole new system of boons. How long you can stack resistance? How easy you can spread or reapply it? Resistance could negate the effects of fear walls/marks and static fields long enough that melee trains will be back soon.
Just to let u know, resistance is against conditions, not ccs
So u won’t get immo, chill etc. not static field.
Stab change is the worst thing ever. WHY even change it. It was fine just the way it was. No one complained about it.
You have the right to dislike the new changes, but saying that no one complained about the zerg strategy is just a plain lie. There were dozens and dozens of threads, week after week, complaining that pressing one button (SYG) to ignore all CC and just run into the enemy force pressing one was skill-less and boring.
To every wannabe pro GvG fighter complaining about not being able to break a zerg anymore: why were you supposed to win in the first place? You’re not skilled if you use the exact same strategy the PU zerg uses. On my server, GvG commanders tag up for the PUGs when their raid is off, so the only difference comes from a bit less coordination (at least half of the melee train is on TS though), and some weak links “skilled” players can rally off.
Really skilled guilds will find a way to use their coordination to still win. Every PU blob can press SYG at the same time and run into another blob. You have a too high opinion of yourself.
No1 here complain about not breaking zerg, all complain about not being able to break BLOB ANYMORE. Earleir u could, now against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks u can’t do anything. It doesn;t even matter if u are pro guild / zerg, you just can’t pass tons of ccs that blobs throw everywhere. Also putting 25 stacks of stab at u don’t work( at last against blobs), they melt in no time So ur arguments aren’t right atm. Basically now u can’t wipe 2x more ppl than u have. Even 5 ppl more in mt is enough to unbalance it and make u win over the guys without those 5 ppl in mt.
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So what about all those condition removing skills? Every class has a skill to remove conditions. Why not try those? Why not try Guardian shouts that remove conditions? Why not try actual team work, and layered condition removal?
Melee is still viable, it simply requires team work now, and target priority. Those eles who always sat at the back being useless? Well you should prolly get your ranged folks on them. Hammer warriors got you down? Fear them, root them, knock them back. What works on you, works on them.
WvW builds have always been so focused on damage/movement, and root removal, now folks need to actually think about conditions mattering. Zergs need to look at what is there and have a couple of support folks for condition removal, have a few strong ranged options to knock down their ele’s and necros.
Actual strategy has come into play a bit.
Emmm…Since when stuns are conditions?
Also teamwork, yes, we usually had at last 2 guardians in party which had 1. stabil, 2. stabil etc. and then circle again, now u can’t do that cos stabil is going out in no time man. Next thing…ahhh again STUNS AREN’T CONDITIONS u can;t remove em with shouts ;D at last not those without “stun break” stat, but even then u clear 1 stun and then u get next
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might be a subtle way of getting wvw away from huge zergvzerg battles
Indeed…wot wot less hurr durr imma invincible and more brains and good positioning. 110% win my book.
It will be blob vs blob now More brains? Man, it will be all about range bombing now. Do u even play as meele? – i mean hammer / sword + wh warior here or gs / hammer guardian. To add, papers are happy now cos they might get their stuns work, but if meele don’t strike meele then they will hunt for papers with whole blob of hammers etc
If you’re dying in a zerg because you blobbed up and expected stability to carry you, it’s a L2P issue.
The meta is changing. The way forward is there.
This.
\thread
What is it about you guys and your incapability to understand the situation?
The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.
Zergs and Blobs are too strong now because they can dish out a near unlimited amount of CC from their large number of players which can infinitely strip out the extremely limited stacks of stability for you to get in there and bust them. Zerging and Blobbing have never been stronger with these changes.
Exactly, all are speaking about too op boost for blobs, now u can’t win by quallity, u just win by numbers. SImple example 20 ppl zerg is up against 60 blob, who win with new stab? Ofcourse blob coso f 3x more cc and 3x more stabil stacks. Gj anet, gj, is that ur way to balance WvW? To make all blob now? Nice thinking guys
Cos anet care about “good job anet” “nice guys” “I love this update” stuff only Also I’m wvwer so this might be why, anet don’t like wvwers with brains.
The OP’s commander with 25 stacks of stability was …shortsighted thinking that would be enough after this morning’s changes. These changes were announced ahead of time and it was clear that it would be much easier to remove stability than before. That means folks have to ration it out, instead of stacking it and YOLOing into a fight.
Every time there’s a disruptive update, we get people who are alarmed that the status quo was destroyed. But that’s exactly the intent of such builds: to shake things up.
After each such change, people go back to the drawing board to figure out what works better. A lot of people like such research/testing. Some guilds will figure it out and become the new vanguard for open world WvW fights. Some guilds won’t figure it out or won’t enjoy the new meta and …well, that happens.
Guild will find out how to fight otehr guilds only, cos u can;t make ANY strategy against blob atm. Not with low number of stabillity skills. As i said it is going to make Revenant a meele god since he will have stab with almost every skill The current idea is NA meta, just kite enemy meele and w8 till papers kill each other like TA vs LAG gvg :P I hope that anet put away their sunglasses for wvw and make old system there. But w8, we are wvwers anet don’t care about us
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Some said that warrior can run berserk stance instead of banner…NICE JOKE MAN. U have totally diffrent skills there, that are mostly useless. 2. thing now, some said that u have to w8 till end of ccs, but…U CAN’T RUN BLOB OUT OF CCS! with 60 man blob u have 40 ccs rotation – just 10 eles is enough to stop whole enemy mt kitten . Other ppl said to count stabil etc. and use it for certain moments, that is what we did yesterday and what? We lost stabil in 0,5 sec – all stacks that we could make. So don’t give me stuff like think about new builds etc. This stabil is now only functional against same numbers groups. Not with zerg vs blob, just can’t handle number of stabil and cc in blob – before patch u could
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Hello all!
You may ask: “But what about my boon removal skills? Will they only corrupt one instance of stability now?” To which we say: Your corruptions and boon removals will clear the boon completely, unless otherwise noted.
I hope that’s cleared things up a bit. Thanks for reading!
-Karl
considering this, are you going to fix thief’s steal (traited with bountiful thief), which removes only one single stack of stability now?
Well 1 cc remove 1 stack of stabillity, that is fair for meele whichc have only 5 stacks form 11 sec duration skill which recharge in 40 sec
Bad players will always complain when the meta shifts. Good players will define a new meta. You should expect organized guild groups to come up with interesting new strategies in no time.
What is the strategy against 3x more cc than ur stabil stacks? I don’t know any xD Except making partys of 4 guards to mainain 10 stacks of stabillity for clashes( 2 guards for clash to use 2 stabs). Our comms rage quited lot of times cos of this stab – when he clashed he got insta dead cos of lack of stacks. When we gave him 25 stacks he lost em in 0,2 sec – for real, documented with video, dunno when he upload it. And as u said guilds, what about pugs and small zergs of medium servers taht satnd against high servers? Nothing to do for em i think
That TA vs LaG video which was posted earlier was a good example of a strategy to counter this; dance around and kite till other zerg/blob is brave enough to push and get melted on a necro bomb, which happens to be much harder to dodge now
That is how we fought today, 1 fight for 20 or 30 min against 23 man guild with 19 man guild
Best update/Worst update? It’s just an update.
Those who adapt to change and use it to their advantage will win and have fun. Those who shivel and whine will remain victims in their own mind because they are in the exact same game as the winners, except they’re losing.
I hope you all have fun playing!
Those who adapt, look up, i explained taht anet should adapt not players, also to adapt to changes wvwers should just quit playing meele while pvpers should all play thievs It will be same cause u won’t have stab anyway xD
They can make AFK stacks like they did with stabil. Basically the longer u afk the lower ur reward, analogically the longer u play the less afk stack u have Anet – Stack the world
With all the people whining and moaning in map chat about the bugs, I’d like to propose a little something. Name me a game where there are no maintenance down times, helpful support staff who try their best, staff in game who talk to the players and sometimes even hang around or do PvP or dungeons or fractals with the players, has minor bi-weekly updates with new cash shop items that can still be bought with in game currency, hot fixes to fix these bugs every day and not long after the major patch is released, free content bi weekly for the specific seasons, player driven events and communities that get supported by the game’s company, and finally a game that’s one of gamings friendliest communities.
If you can name me a game with all that and more, perhaps we should all move there because obviously a lot of people don’t appreciate the work that goes into this game.
TALK TO THE PLAYERS?! AHAHAH where they asked me what i think about stabillity changes? NOWEHRE. THey just made it and are forcing me to play THEIR WAY of the game. U ask for game with less bugs? SKYFORGE, this game is still in CB, but with LESS bugs than gw2 and MUCH MORE CONTENT. Also devs there TALK with players and ASK em what to change, not like here – they just made stabillity change that is…POINTLESS and ruined whole game. Why they made this? Simple, 1. to nerf guilds vs blobs, 2. To make Revenant needed cos he will have stabil with almost every skill so he will balance the game
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi
The CDIs say differently.
Plus many people like the change to stability. It is going to take some time to adjust to, and different strategies are going to be developed, but overall it’s not a bad change. But your opinion is your opinion I guess….
Emmm what startegies? Who have more cc he win? Or who have more stabil he win? According to that who have bigger blob he win? The only strategy is to set mt to kill enemy mt with eyesight while papers will bomb enemy papers that is for gvg. What about zerg vs blob? U probably can’t do anything ;D just let em wipe u. Also CID didn;t say a thing about stabillity They just make it to nerf guilds and zergs wiping blobs cos of some QQ arrows. AHh and the 2. thing why they changed it is taht they want to release Revenant which have stabillity with almos tevery skill so he will balance it BUT why they released stuff related to him NOW? As i said chekout skyforge – it is the game hwere devs really care about their players. How i know that anet isn’t? They didn’t fix servers for over 2 years of crying about lags at EU servers.
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Bad players will always complain when the meta shifts. Good players will define a new meta. You should expect organized guild groups to come up with interesting new strategies in no time.
What is the strategy against 3x more cc than ur stabil stacks? I don’t know any xD Except making partys of 4 guards to mainain 10 stacks of stabillity for clashes( 2 guards for clash to use 2 stabs). Our comms rage quited lot of times cos of this stab – when he clashed he got insta dead cos of lack of stacks. When we gave him 25 stacks he lost em in 0,2 sec – for real, documented with video, dunno when he upload it. And as u said guilds, what about pugs and small zergs of medium servers taht satnd against high servers? Nothing to do for em i think Ohhh and i just got idea of other strategy, MT will hold enemy MT form enagging while papers will fight and mt will try to kill eachother with their eyesight!
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Good, guardians and warriors have ruled melee trains for far too long.
YEAH now there will be no meele train and all will go with papers for open raids to not get into clash
Can we please have this thread merged with this one…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Best-update-in-GW2-History/page/2#post4885223The topic is the same and both threads contain equal amounts of positive and negative feedback. I don’t understand why there has to be two identical threads.
Not indentical, the guy there gave other topic, here i gave other for some reason, to hate this update and check if devs answer here, but they only care about “nice patch” " amazing patch" “love you” stuff So the only thing left is to show how weak( i would like to use other word but then this post might get deleted as i know devs – 1 of em said that i can get banned for writing “move kitten ppl” at borderland) this update is.
The patch brings with it about 20 bugs and some of them are game breaking. It needs to be rolled back and TESTED before being put on the servers.
Yep they should remove it, then ask players what they think about it and put what is most important into patch But they won’t do it, cos everything in this patch( except bugs) is intended and bugs will just stay and we will have em fixed in some long time or never like with wvw’s lags :P
they couldn’t clash, they just had to range bomb, but how long can u range bomb? Without meele clash u are just killing 1 by 1, then they res em and again.
Sounds like oldschool AV to me. Ah, all those memories of hour long fights for the bridge and the bottleneck right in front of the alliance base… Makes me all woozy
Where do I sign up?! Really excited to try out WvW when they iron out the skill lagg in a hotfix!
:D Skilllag is for 2,5 years, they ar enever gonna fix it AT last not for EU.
With all the people whining and moaning in map chat about the bugs, I’d like to propose a little something. Name me a game where there are no maintenance down times, helpful support staff who try their best, staff in game who talk to the players and sometimes even hang around or do PvP or dungeons or fractals with the players, has minor bi-weekly updates with new cash shop items that can still be bought with in game currency, hot fixes to fix these bugs every day and not long after the major patch is released, free content bi weekly for the specific seasons, player driven events and communities that get supported by the game’s company, and finally a game that’s one of gamings friendliest communities.
If you can name me a game with all that and more, perhaps we should all move there because obviously a lot of people don’t appreciate the work that goes into this game.
TALK TO THE PLAYERS?! AHAHAH where they asked me what i think about stabillity changes? NOWEHRE. THey just made it and are forcing me to play THEIR WAY of the game. U ask for game with less bugs? SKYFORGE, this game is still in CB, but with LESS bugs than gw2 and MUCH MORE CONTENT. Also devs there TALK with players and ASK em what to change, not like here – they just made stabillity change that is…POINTLESS and ruined whole game. Why they made this? Simple, 1. to nerf guilds vs blobs, 2. To make Revenant needed cos he will have stabil with almost every skill so he will balance the game
Read up, i wrote that camera is fine, but stabil is making it worst update ever
Please oh please read your posts before you post them, the lack of proper syntax and use of uncommon phrases is going to put people off your argument entirely. The stability change is a change, neither good nor bad, and it needed to be done due to the pressure stability gives in a pvp environment. If you aren’t going to adapt to the change then go play a single player game.
Sorry i thought RQ is common – this means rage quit. 2,5y means 2,5 year. BL – black lion. I really thought they were common. As to how i write, sorry I’m not native English speaker, also i type and work at the same moment so it is why i don’t have time to rewrite my posts. I would like to adapt to changes but how? Just how? The only way is to play range class now. Really try to understand or go wvw with meele. U, u just don’t stand a chance without 4 other guards and amazing cooperation to not lose too much stab, and still u get ur stabil out of u too fast. Also I’m not the 1 to adapt, anet is. U know why those changes are up? Not cos of pvp stuff etc. 1. are guilds wiping blobs etc. 2. is Revenant class that will balance stability lack cos he have stabil with every skill, but we got a patch for him before his release. That is all, nothing more behinde stabil changes. Also iti s easy to say “go play a single player game.” but i paid for THIS game and I played it for 5k hours so i have rights to complain about stuff that was greedy and ruined whole gameplay. As i said we didn’t have prime time cos comms were rage quiting. Some cos of lag – EU servers can’t handle calculating stab stacks, but much more cos of lack of stab – they couldn’t clash, they just had to range bomb, but how long can u range bomb? Without meele clash u are just killing 1 by 1, then they res em and again.
Read up, i wrote that camera is fine, but stabil is making it worst update ever And not just ME, lot of guilds, Commanders etc. we had 3 RQ at eb today cos of lack of stab Also to those changes, the only good after camera is bug with falling. New BL weapons? Nice joke man. WvW map not for 100% WOW after 2,5y, nice. The number of votes? Who needed that? xD
U know why? Cos u fight grub for 30 mins and during this time u lose lot of points and WVW stuff. IF u want pve go pve man :P
Eh? A bunch of traits are still unlocked in WvW and EotM. With today’s bug, it’s the only place to unlock them. I agree it’s a bad design but “go pve man” is a pointless suggestion. Literally.
Well eotm is pve now U don’t anything from wvw there. And what can u get from WvW? Just useless traits, while those most important are obrainable from WBs, specific events or even exploring :P Also cos of ppl that want to make pve at wvw borders are losing defenders so that was good to say him to go pve or PAY like every wvw player…
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But players will not stop stacking. They will just not engage in melee, it will be all ranged bomb/pressure. On top of that, it’s going to be pretty much impossible to beat bigger group, because it can rip your stability faster and drop more aoes on you.
Exactly, it will be NA meta now. And anet made what they wanted, no more guild vs blob The problem will be blob guild like GH from fsp They will still fight blobs with their 30 guards
Haven’t played WvW in a long time but if this is truly the end of melee blob v blob then this might get me to give it another shot!
If only it were so easy to end “blob v blob” warfare. I’m afraid you’re placing far too much weight in the update and its effects on WvW combat.
From the reactions in here it seems that melee blobs will just end in you getting chain cc’ed and killed. I’m not against large groups of players fighting each other on an open field but against 50+ people stacking on 1m² and then bullrushing headfirst into another zerg which leads to about 20 seconds of <10fps (gtx 670 and i7 3770@4.2ghz here) and praying your blob survives.
Large scale warfare is awesome. Playerclusters are not. If this updates leads to players spreading out evenly while army sizes remains the same, I’m more than happy. No slideshow, no explosion of particles, no spamming #1. Having played WoW from 2005 to 2012 and loving Alterac to death, this is exactly what I want from WvW (Only exception being that the maps are far too open and armies end up avoiding each other to cap towers instead of engaging in PvP)
LoL invest in more RAM and better GPU if u wanna run best graphic. Atm i have similar gpu and cpu with 30 fps in blob fights at medium settings. PPl are just going to blob at range, they will spam skills from range away from stuns( that is what comm play atm here). So still explosions etc. but from range And to add that u will ave less fsp cos of much more stuff from eles and necros – lot of players will play em now cos of safe range away from ccs
Why? Ok, camera is nice, some visual stuff too, BUT the stabillity is totally mess now? Why? U can’t now play meele at WvW, just can’t. U usually fight in blob at eb, when ur blob is gonna strike enemy blob u can’t stand, cos even with 25 stacks of stbility u lose it in 0,5 sec spammed by walls, stuns etc. It is not about blobs only, u can’t do anything as zerg against blob now, cos they have 2x more stabil, 2x more ccs, u just can’t do anything. I’m complaining much bout WvW cos it is most annoying there, but pve suffer too. For example during defend of Vinewrath u lose ur stacks in less time than duration of stabil. It is only usable at pvp – u have few ccs there from 1 player. ANET 50% of skills in this game are ccs! Proof?( cos u probably don’t know ur own game) Hammer for warrior – 6 skills( f1 included) and u have 3 ccs! Also lot of visual stuff is low: smaller hp bars for party, 2/3 of loading screen wallpaper, just what are u doing guys? U didn;t even ask community about those changes, u just used it and bah “go and play it OUR players”…Probably no1 from devs read this. Anotehr thing is lag after this patch, servers just can’t handle stab going out, CAN’T at last EU servers.
I play it for 2,5y and now after this update I’m really confused about expansion and u with this stabillity change didn’t pull me towards HoT( I proabbly buy it anyway cos of lore, but 3/4 or even whole WvW community is now mad about thsi change).
ps. Is it ninja nerf for smaller groups fighting bigger?
stability was LONG annoucned to be changed so no ninja upate here.
also it was the be all end all solution to everything.
eles set up a static field barrage to stop zerg. zerg pops ONE group stab buff fiels is completly use less.in essence anet finaly makes CC vailable specialy with the upcomming status similar to stun and daze like taunt.
now you need to think and you can strategize.They had 2 group stab for 5 sec( 2 guard per party usually), SUCH LONG MAN. Now anet make CC TOO OP, cos u lose 5 stacks in no time. Do u even play in meele? Cos since u gave ele exampel i guess u play ele and u can;t feel the pain. U can;t srategise anything, u just win by number of ccs. For example 20 mt vs 10 mt? Who win ? 20 mt zerg! Why? Cos of 2x more stabils and 2 more ccs. Before patch u 2x more stabs didn;t matter cos u could handle same amount of ccs according to that 2x more ccs didn;t matter too. Now u can fight only with same numbers…Ehhh as i typed u are proabbly paper blobber and can’t feel how it is to run withotu stab in meele
okay I have problem with writting thing correctly and people use the grammar falaciy on me BUT JESUS CHRIST stop using your pro360noscope lingo crap allready.
I just used typical stuff and words from WvW so dunno what u mean by “lingo”. My style of typing? Sorry I’m not native speaker of English and i use net version of this language. Anyway it is offtop now. We should discuss bout post not comments
Anotehr comm just Rage Quit Eb saying he won’t command in meele with this stab Try it by yourself, make a party of even 5 guards and make everyone use stab in smae moment during clash. 5. skill form guardian’s staff will take all stacks out
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Why? Ok, camera is nice, some visual stuff too, BUT the stabillity is totally mess now? Why? U can’t now play meele at WvW, just can’t. U usually fight in blob at eb, when ur blob is gonna strike enemy blob u can’t stand, cos even with 25 stacks of stbility u lose it in 0,5 sec spammed by walls, stuns etc. It is not about blobs only, u can’t do anything as zerg against blob now, cos they have 2x more stabil, 2x more ccs, u just can’t do anything. I’m complaining much bout WvW cos it is most annoying there, but pve suffer too. For example during defend of Vinewrath u lose ur stacks in less time than duration of stabil. It is only usable at pvp – u have few ccs there from 1 player. ANET 50% of skills in this game are ccs! Proof?( cos u probably don’t know ur own game) Hammer for warrior – 6 skills( f1 included) and u have 3 ccs! Also lot of visual stuff is low: smaller hp bars for party, 2/3 of loading screen wallpaper, just what are u doing guys? U didn;t even ask community about those changes, u just used it and bah “go and play it OUR players”…Probably no1 from devs read this. Anotehr thing is lag after this patch, servers just can’t handle stab going out, CAN’T at last EU servers.
I play it for 2,5y and now after this update I’m really confused about expansion and u with this stabillity change didn’t pull me towards HoT( I proabbly buy it anyway cos of lore, but 3/4 or even whole WvW community is now mad about thsi change).
ps. Is it ninja nerf for smaller groups fighting bigger?
stability was LONG annoucned to be changed so no ninja upate here.
also it was the be all end all solution to everything.
eles set up a static field barrage to stop zerg. zerg pops ONE group stab buff fiels is completly use less.in essence anet finaly makes CC vailable specialy with the upcomming status similar to stun and daze like taunt.
now you need to think and you can strategize.
They had 2 group stab for 5 sec( 2 guard per party usually), SUCH LONG MAN. Now anet make CC TOO OP, cos u lose 5 stacks in no time. Do u even play in meele? Cos since u gave ele exampel i guess u play ele and u can;t feel the pain. U can;t srategise anything, u just win by number of ccs. For example 20 mt vs 10 mt? Who win ? 20 mt zerg! Why? Cos of 2x more stabils and 2 more ccs. Before patch u 2x more stabs didn;t matter cos u could handle same amount of ccs according to that 2x more ccs didn;t matter too. Now u can fight only with same numbers…Ehhh as i typed u are proabbly paper blobber and can’t feel how it is to run withotu stab in meele Yes now u just don’t have stabillity or at last u don’t feel it cos u get stunned every possible time when clashing.
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Perhaps it is time to get better at the game, and not to rely on blobs?
It is same for guilds ;D Today every guild was afraid of mt v mt cos of lose of stacks due to ccs U know EU meta is meele vs meele not range vs range like NA.
Most of us are glad no more melee train XD
Exactly Our comm just Rage quit EB He had 25 stacks of stab that went down in no time few times so he got mad and rqed.
Welcome to gw2, everything for pve, pee at wvw players
Ok, camera is nice, some visual stuff too, BUT the stabillity is totally mess now? Why? U can’t now play meele at WvW, just can’t. U usually fight in blob at eb, when ur blob is gonna strike enemy blob u can’t stand, cos even with 25 stacks of stbility u lose it in 0,5 sec spammed by walls, stuns etc. It is not about blobs only, u can’t do anything as zerg against blob now, cos they have 2x more stabil, 2x more ccs, u just can’t do anything. I’m complaining much bout WvW cos it is most annoying there, but pve suffer too. For example during defend of Vinewrath u lose ur stacks in less time than duration of stabil. It is only usable at pvp – u have few ccs there from 1 player. ANET 50% of skills in this game are ccs! Proof?( cos u probably don’t know ur own game) Hammer for warrior – 6 skills( f1 included) and u have 3 ccs! Also lot of visual stuff is low: smaller hp bars for party, 2/3 of loading screen wallpaper, just what are u doing guys? U didn;t even ask community about those changes, u just used it and bah “go and play it OUR players”…Probably no1 from devs read this. Anotehr thing is lag after this patch, servers just can’t handle stab going out, CAN’T at last EU servers.
I play it for 2,5y and now after this update I’m really confused about expansion and u with this stabillity change didn’t pull me towards HoT( I proabbly buy it anyway cos of lore, but 3/4 or even whole WvW community is now mad about thsi change).
ps. Is it ninja nerf for smaller groups fighting bigger? Yes, my English isn’t perfect, but I’m not native speaker of this language.
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After 16.03 patch the lag at WvW was real – not just some after patch lag, i had 9k ping. And when someone say it is my connection, 20 of my guildmates had same issue. FIX IT ANET, FIX and give stability back. EU servers
We used stab during fight against SFR blob( 5 guard party) all used every stab they had during clash, we didn;t even run 2m, stopped at spam of walls etc. THANK YOU ANET FOR THIS CHANGE!