Guild Wars 2

Arheundel.6451:

Khyras.8021:

Having a portal skill to defend a backpoint gives you unfair advantage over the other classes. Thats the simple truth, you can repeat l2p mantra all day if you want.
Anyways, deleting mesmers would greatly add to the quality of pvp in this game imo, they are the most disgusting class i have ever seen in any MMO.

Nobody forces you to play this MMO, and definetely we can’t delete every single thing you don’t like, if you can’t adapt you shouldn’t play a MMO

I dont even play it anymore i just read forums from time to time in hope something will change for the better. And do tell who are “we” are you part of a-net dev team, or just one of the few people who still play pvp in this game?

Having a portal skill to defend a backpoint gives you unfair advantage over the other classes. Thats the simple truth, you can repeat l2p mantra all day if you want.
Anyways, deleting mesmers would greatly add to the quality of pvp in this game imo, they are the most disgusting class i have ever seen in any MMO.

“The map is enormous and has lots of room for strategy”

You obviously never played arathi basin or alterac valley.

Brutalistik.6473:

Wow…so make the other person suffer because they left even if it wasn’t their fault. That’s not nice and so what if they leave by rage quitting. It’s their lost and plus it just shows how much of a game player they are when the if they leaving cause of a 1 vs 1 situation. Now if the team was sucking then by all means please leave because no one should have to be frustrated and suffer with a team that isn’t trying their best besides standing still like ducks.

Quit crying about people leaving because it is their choice after all and their lost as well if the team they were on was a winning one.

You quit whining about the people who in your opinion are whining.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Khyras.8021:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Khyras.8021:

Darnis.4056:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think a better system would be to force all 64 players to click an “accept” button before the tournament is officially “starts.” If only 61 players click the “accept” button within 1 minute, the game finds 3 other solo-queue players and fills the slots.

This sounds like a solid idea, I hope Anet is looking at this thread because this would be pretty great if implemented.

Solid idea? few minutes ago you claimed that leavers arent big problem in this game now you like the potential solution to that problem? This guy is amazing.

I don’t mind if people aren’t excited about one idea but like another one. To be fair, originally he/she said that a deserter debuff isn’t the best solution. I really like the idea of waiting for 64 players to “accept” the tournament, and I think it would be more effective (for tournaments) than a debuff.

Your solution only works for AFKers and leavers up to the moment the match starts, but not for those who leave when the match starts and during the match.

Fair enough. My reasoning is that, although someone rage-quitting mid-match is a problem, it is a bigger problem to have games that begin 4v5. Also, people who rage-quit from tourneys already can’t join another one until that tourney is ended.

For that matter, you could have a quitter debuff AND an accept tourney button. I’m not against a debuff.

Glad we agree

NevirSayDie.6235:

Khyras.8021:

Darnis.4056:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think a better system would be to force all 64 players to click an “accept” button before the tournament is officially “starts.” If only 61 players click the “accept” button within 1 minute, the game finds 3 other solo-queue players and fills the slots.

This sounds like a solid idea, I hope Anet is looking at this thread because this would be pretty great if implemented.

Solid idea? few minutes ago you claimed that leavers arent big problem in this game now you like the potential solution to that problem? This guy is amazing.

I don’t mind if people aren’t excited about one idea but like another one. To be fair, originally he/she said that a deserter debuff isn’t the best solution. I really like the idea of waiting for 64 players to “accept” the tournament, and I think it would be more effective (for tournaments) than a debuff.

Your solution only works for AFKers and leavers up to the moment the match starts, but not for those who leave when the match starts and during the match.

Darnis.4056:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think a better system would be to force all 64 players to click an “accept” button before the tournament is officially “starts.” If only 61 players click the “accept” button within 1 minute, the game finds 3 other solo-queue players and fills the slots.

This sounds like a solid idea, I hope Anet is looking at this thread because this would be pretty great if implemented.

Solid idea? few minutes ago you claimed that leavers arent big problem in this game now you like the potential solution to that problem? This guy is amazing.

Instead of pvp amulets you should be given certain amount of stat points during lvl up or when you go to mists to pvp to allocate as you see fit, all offense, all defense or balanced build allocation, and not some pvp amulet with some predetermined allocation that someone thinks is good for you.More choice you have while customizing your character the better its mmoRPG not some online shooter with predetermined loadouts.

Darnis.4056:

Suggest a better system then the deserter debuff, it’s old, it’s tried and it’s terrible.
Inaction in deference to implementing bad systems is a good move.

20 mins of deserter debuff would work fine because, as i already said , that is the time leaver wont be messing up anyone elses game and will think twice about leaving the game next time and lot of people wont leave at all because they want to pvp when they have time for it, not wait on the bench for their punishment to expire.You say deserter debuff doesnt work in other games but from what i remember while playing wow, war,aoc and swtor leavers were not nearly as much of a problem as they are here and even if someone leaves he is quickly replaced by another player in queue AND even if they are not replaced match is not ruined because there is no lousy downed mechanic to screw it up completely for team with less players..
I should suggest another solution ? I dont have to suggest nothing im not on a-net payroll it is them that should resolve this issue which is by far a lot more severe than in other games because of downed mechanic, in order to provide healthy pvp environment for their playerbase.
Edit: And before you claim deserter debuff does not work in other games ask yourself how much worse would pvp be without that mechanic and why is it not removed in other games if it does not work?

Sylosi.6503:

Khyras.8021:

Also deserter debuff should be at least 20 mins.

Which will still be utterly ineffective for most people, you want a debuff that actually deters people, try 3 hours, but they will never put that in, because of people that have a real reason to leave, your 20 mins debuff will not solve anything, it doesn’t work in other MMOs, it wouldn’t work in this one.

Even if it dont work ( which i utterly disagree) it should be there because inaction is a sign of approval and that will add to the severity of the problem over time as i already said

Sylosi.6503:

Khyras.8021:

Oh really? if someone for example wants to pvp for the next 2 hours, joins tpvp game then leaves because he doesnt like the fact that there is a certain class on his team or for what ever reason, then gets 20 mins deserter debuff and cannot pvp for those 20 mins even he wanted to and was planning to and only has 2 hours free time, you think he wont think twice before doing the same thing next time? Really?

A lot of people won’t think twice, because the deterrent is a weak slap on the wrist, the last MMO I played was Rift, they had a 15 min deserter debuff, it didn’t stop anyone from leaving, just go and do a chore / job you were going to do later for 15 mins, go get a cup a coffee, go back to dailies for 15 mins, etc.

For it to actually be effective you would need something that is a strong enough deterrent, but then you can’t do that as some people have to leave a game for real reasons or may have no control due to a DC.

The best way to keep people in a match is to create balanced matches – player ratings, keep pugs and pre-mades seperate, balance class composition in hot joins, don’t do dumb stuff like sticking 8v8 on maps made for 5v5, have good class baalnce,etc, unfortunately MMORPGs are bad at this, GW2 is no exception.

When he goes to get a coffe for 15 mins those are 15 mins he wont be kittening up a game for someone else. If someone leaves a game for rl reasons he probably wont be playing for 15 mins anyway and debuff will expire while he is offline. If someone gets debuff because of dc that is bad indeed but he is only 1 person and that only happens very rarely maybe once in 10 days, on the other hand you have to put up deserters every day if you play pvp and when he leaves he kittened the game up for 4 people not just one. So imo dc deserter debuff is by far lesser of two evils.Also deserter debuff should be at least 20 mins.

ensoriki.5789:

I don’t care if he does.
You play GW1?
They implemented the Dishonoured system, and it was a slap on a wrist, a minor annoyance. Hell sometimes you got it, and it made no sense.
People still left RA games if there was no monk.
There will people still leaving RA games if they saw a burst Sin or Earth tank ele and didn’t feel like bothering with it.

It means absolutely nothing once it happens.
If someone leaves, you can slap them on the wrist, but what does that do for you? Nothing, as you’re still left 4×5. Had leaving issues last night, what you think some dishonored system would’ve suddenly saved our team when he had already left?
If you don’t want to play, you’re not going to suffer through 10 mins of crap you don’t want to do and I don’t feel obligated to make you do so. If you don’t want to play with us, then leave, that is my outlook IDGAF.

Like I said, the only thing that really sucks is that I can’t get a substitute in, if someone abandons us because that’s what is important to me. Filling in the hole that is left, not saying “lol he can’t pvp for 30 min because he left us” as if that makes the match I’m facing, suddenly even.

People leave in dishonored systems, they go afk too, and they continue to do it even afterwards, it’s a small deterrent, that doesn’t change the reality of what happens when someone does leave at the end of the day.

By your logic we should not have any rules at all.If someone for example kills someone he should not be jailed because guy he killed is dead anyways and if people wanna kill someone they will do it jail is just a small deterrence he will serve his time then come back and do it again if he wants to, better just let him walk after all he did not kill me thank god.
On a serious side, not prohibiting, or not even trying to prohibit this kind of behavior in pvp is detriment to pvp in this game and is basically sign of approval which will lead to increase of that kind of behavior in the future and that is good for no one imo.

People, devs of this game included, simply dont understand that there are players who like to queue for pvp alone and dont want to use voice chat.I pvp alone because i absolutely dont want to depend on someone else when im in pvp, if someone helps me when needed good if not more challenging the game is and thats how i like it. You DONT know whats better for me better than me so dont tell me to go and find a team because i dont want to.I just want a fun pvp system where i can join the game when i want to and have fun killing people or getting killed. This is the main reason why less and less people are playing pvp in this game, you dont get to tell majority of your playerbase what to do, we tell YOU what we want and you oblige or we leave and dont buy your products again because i dont have to, there is plenty more fish in the gaming sea.

ensoriki.5789:

Spvp as in hot-join?
Whole idea of hot-join is come and go as you please.
a GW1 RA system would be stupid.

tpvp? Only issue I have is that the game won’t get you a substitute player if someone hasn’t participated. If someone’s going to leave they’re going to leave, them getting a slap on the wrist for leaving doesn’t change that there’s a 4×5 going on.

Oh really? if someone for example wants to pvp for the next 2 hours, joins tpvp game then leaves because he doesnt like the fact that there is a certain class on his team or for what ever reason, then gets 20 mins deserter debuff and cannot pvp for those 20 mins even he wanted to and was planning to and only has 2 hours free time, you think he wont think twice before doing the same thing next time? Really?

butch.8136:

I hope the rating system won’t punish the other players even more ’cus of this and scaring most people to do solo queue.

More people would join pvp because they would be confident that someone leaving the match on purpose is very unlikely, because there are rules to prevent that sort of behavior.

Lukin.4061:

So now instead of leaving people would just go and browse youtube and be afk for what? For you to stare at his model in the spawn longer?

You get deserter debuff either for leaving match on purpose or going afk, I though that was obvious and you would know that if you ever played any MMO besides GW 2 but if i have to spell it out for you np.

Darnis.4056:

Punishments for Leaving matches was left out of guildwars2 on purpose, these systems don’t work, they add nothing to the game and sometimes function to hurt players.

I say nay… and this should be in suggestions.

They dont work? says who? something like deserter debuff exists in every mmo i have ever played and for a very good reason.Only risk of aggravating someone is to have dc or computer crash and when you log back in you have a deserter debuff but dc or game crashing is something that occurs on a very rare occasion, while purposely quitting the game is something that happens very often in this game solely because there is no consequence to leaving the game whenever you please.This is an MMO not a single player your decisions and actions influence quality of gameplay of other people drastically especially in pvp and especially in pvp with mechanics like downed. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you people?

Chi Malady.2015:

Khyras.8021:

Chi Malady.2015:

That would be a terrible idea. Sometimes people have to leave due to a real life emergency or their internet connection fails or their computer crashes. Not everyone is rage quitting.

I am sure number of people quitting on purpose far exceeds number of people quitting because computer crash or rl emergency. Also OP is not proposing to ban player who quits pvp match, deserter debuff lasting 15-20 mins is more than enough to discourage quitting the game whenever you want and causing other people to have a bad pvp experience. I cant even believe there are people who oppose introducing deserter debuff mechanic it should be obvious that its existence is necessary if you ever participated in a match where something like that happened.

I’ve had team members leave plenty of times when tourny pugging and I couldn’t care less. It’s a game. Few people leave when their team is winning unless they have to. If someone leaves when you’re team is losing, then who cares? You will have lost anyway.

You might think that people are leaving just to spite you, but some people have demanding family lives and they can’t guarantee that they will be available to play through an entire tournament.

Matches are so short in this game that it doesn’t even matter if someone leaves. How long does a map take to complete, 10 minutes?

Having even one less player in 5 vs 5 game especially spells loss for a team with less players i dare say in 99% of those games mostly because of lame downed mechanic and burst.You may not be upset to be pretty much free kill for the rest of the match and the fact that you will almost certainly losing the match but some people, including me, obviously are or this post would not be here.

Choosing some stupid amulet plays a greater role in customizing your avatar then all passive and active traits you chose in a trait tree. Laughable, may as well get rid of traits completely and put it all on different class specific amulets.

Do yourself a favor and enjoy the part of this game which is decent (PVE) and maybe play some spvp or free tournaments just for fun, but if you think about dedicating your time to “serious” PVP- my advice is dont, pvp in this game is not even close to wow or war so much so that it still feels like its in beta stage of development.Imagine wow rogue who can vanish 15 times in a row and you cant see him while he does ambush+2 backstabs on you and if you build your spec aggressively all he needs is ambush to kill you, then if he fails to kill you he can run away faster than you can say wtf was that, or a mage who can turn you to sheep then pound you for 10 seconds as he pleases because you cant dispell and it dont break on dmg plus he has mirror images up at all times that do fair amount of dmg and can go to stealth just like rogue, or a warlock and shadow priest who can spam dots on you and those dots stack and everyone has dots yaay .PvP in this game may be interesting at first because of dodge system, the fact that there is no healers and that its a new game but after a very short time it will become nothing but annoying.And also, if you wanna compete at the “top lvl” for a chance to win some pointless rewards or to massage your ego you will need a team and 5 tickets for each match which can be bought in game shop for rl money or you can grind them in free tournaments and spvp by doing dailies even tho game officially has no grind policy.Good luck.

“Custom arenas are needed, they will attract new players” Go ahead and keep telling yourself that, maybe if you repeat it few hundred times it will become truth.Because, after all, if the devs say so its gotta be true. Right? And the fact that custom arenas will create income for them cough yet another way to milk pvp players cough is pure coincidence. Right? Yeah, right priority my …!

I dont have problem with combat system or removal of holy trinity but there is only so many conquest games you can play before it gets boring .I have a problem with pvp system they have, represented by the fact that there is an entry fee for a certain segment of pvp.I find something like that in a game insulting, cheap and shameful especially considering that there are f2p games out there who dont even consider charging an entry fee for a pvp and actually have ingame events and competitions where you can enter free of charge and actually win something. I absolutely do not care what paid for custom servers offer, you should be able to duel people anywhere not just on a rented server and there should have been 2 or 3 different pvp modes introduced by now, not conquest and rented custom server conquest with some adjustable parameters.

nerva.7940:

well hotjoin needs to go alltogether. there are too few people playing, and the pop should be divided between only two modes: 1v1 team tourneys, and custom arenas. anything more at this point would be a mistake.

So in your opinion my options for pvp in GW 2 ought to be get a team then buy tickets for tourney or rent custom arena and duel or play with same people over and over again? Brilliant sarcasm off.
Let me tell you what i think this custom arena business is.People ask for duels and new game mods to break staleness of 5 months palying same game mod.A- net says “You want duels and new game mods? we will give it to you but not for free we will allow you to rent custom arenas for a certain price there you go knock yourself out dueling and playing with same people constantly”.
And, as hackks said, custom arenas will only serve as a short term distraction from a real problem which is that GW 2 pvp team tried to reinvent wheel and it did not work.

Rika.7249:

Khyras.8021:

I think so. It will be good for dueling and things like that ofc, but it will split not so big pvp community even further and spvp and tournaments matcheswill become even more scarce than they already are.They would be better off just adding any time/any place dueling and more pvp mods as well as deserter debuff to make pvp more fun and interesting, along with fixing bugs, to create influx of new players interested in pvp.Furthermore i dont remember many people asking for this feature at all,yet devs talk like custom arenas are what players asked for and need most at this time, and are some kind of priority? Puzzled.

This feature is basically everything we’ve ever needed.

Anet has compared their PvP system to a shooter when it was in development, having server lists and changeable rules and such.

It’s what drives games like TF2 and CS:S. It will work wonders for GW2.
I’m puzzled as to how you can even consider calling this must-have “a mistake.”

I literally cannot understand what argument you’ve had in your head, that concluded that custom arenas are a mistake. Like, what? Tons of servers with rulechanges, amazing for practice and dawdling, good for fun competition. Once you’ve been practicing, you could hotjoin. Or you could do both.

You quote my post then ask me what argument i had? Its right there custom arenas will further fragment pvp players imho, separating spvp from paid and free tournaments is bad enough.You wanna practice go spvp, but first fix spvp so that it is fun to play for all PvP players with multiple fun game mods and mists duels and some kind of meaningful rank progression ( like for example you only win glory points if you win match otherwise you get small amount of xp) and ladder for ALL players.
Then, if you wanna make this game e-sport organize weekly, monthly and yearly tournaments where it is required to have team to enter ONLY without this tickets nonsense,have those teams do qualifying matches then best teams go into finals and have a chance to win meaningful prizes ( unique armor and weapon skins,unique pets and titles, ingame shop currency and items).Those events will attract even more players, sponsors etc.
That is how you build e-sport imo not with custom pay to rent arenas nonsense.

Durzlla.6295:

Khyras.8021:

Entire e-sport idea for GW 2 is bad imo.People who play MMORPGs dont play them for e-sport features.Played AoC, WoW ,WAR,SWTOR and i dont remember devs in those games trying to force this e-sport “find a team or dont pvp at all” nonsense on me or other players.I was doing pvp in those games because it was fun, and i could pvp when i wanted be it alone or in a group.

Um it’s the same as in E-sport games, you can PvP by yourself but you’re not going to have any sort of spotlight that way.

I’m iffy on the whole custom arenas atm because of the whole renting aspect, is that gonna be via gems? Gold? Glory? What?

A .. spotlight? I dont want a spotlight i wanna fun to play pvp, as most people who play pvp in MMORPGs do.

For a game with no healers there is too much cc,conditions and boons here.

Entire e-sport idea for GW 2 is bad imo.People who play MMORPGs dont play them for e-sport features.Played AoC, WoW ,WAR,SWTOR and i dont remember devs in those games trying to force this e-sport “find a team or dont pvp at all” nonsense on me or other players.I was doing pvp in those games because it was fun, and i could pvp when i wanted be it alone or in a group.

Chi Malady.2015:

Custom arenas are superior to tournaments as they allow players to dictate the terms of the match.

I don’t know about you, but it was at the top of my list of features this game needs. Every e-sport has custom arenas.

Well, GW 2 pvp is not e-sport yet ( and it wont be for a long time or ever), so custom arenas as priority? i beg to differ.How about adding basic pvp features other MMORPGs have first?

butch.8136:

^But what would it be in deathmatch?

Ooh lets go all to that point. Spam aoe or something cheesy. Oh look we survived. Anyone know what happened?

Unlike in conquest there would be no penalty of losing a point when you move out of aoe, so yes dm would be much better.

I think so. It will be good for dueling and things like that ofc, but it will split not so big pvp community even further and spvp and tournaments matcheswill become even more scarce than they already are.They would be better off just adding any time/any place dueling and more pvp mods as well as deserter debuff to make pvp more fun and interesting, along with fixing bugs, to create influx of new players interested in pvp.Furthermore i dont remember many people asking for this feature at all,yet devs talk like custom arenas are what players asked for and need most at this time, and are some kind of priority? Puzzled.

They also stated that they are satisfied with current meta.Boring is good.

Path of Exile f2p arpg currently in closed beta !!! has in game free to enter competitive events like timed lvl up races and pvp events with rewards like 50 dollars worth of microtransaction currency for the 1st place.I bought this game and i gotta buy tickets or grind them to enter paid tournament? Embarrassing and disappointing. Overhaul your pvp system or you will never get another cent from me.

Since you ask, yes i think fixing bugs should be priority because you cannot accurately assess balance with so many bugs around.While i was playing the game i preferred hotjoins because i have no time or desire to look for a team and coordinate my playing time with other people and also i like to pvp alone if possible, just a personal preference.Free tourneys would be much better without pug vs premade matchmaking, if nothing else fact that premade uses voice chat makes frees unfair.

You need to understand that people who play hot join and free tourney are not by default new people or less skilled players.I dont play gw2 at all anymore because pvp is boring one mode only construct with annoying mechanics like clone spam, stealth spam,confusion, retaliation, and when i was playing i did not play paid tournaments because i despise concept of paying or grinding to be able to pvp.People in hotjoin do not need 30% dmg reduction like they are kitten and cannot handle the burst, they need the game that is actually fun and not annoying to play.They need to LOVE pvp to stay committed and eventually move on to “higher level” pvp if they want to.Adding more fun to play game modes and target nearest player feature aswell as fixing stealth render issue and multiple bugs hat exist since beta would be a good start imho and i probably wont be playing at all until they do that.

Well here is why i think 1vs 1 balance is imperative.I may be wrong, but this is what i think.
Lets first make things very simple and assume there are only 2 classes in the game : mesmers and warriors.Now, to balance mesmer and warrior all you have to do is make sure that 1 class has no unfair advantage over the other, and that outcome of the fight is decided by skill and/or luck only.To do that you cannot, for example, give mesmer unremovable elite like MOA.Why? because it incapacitates warrior for 10 seconds which more than enough for burst mesmer to burn him down with warrior having no chance to defend himself.So, all you have to do is balance mesmers vs warriors skills, traits sigils etc.
Now lets move on to 5vs5 balance (very similar to what we have now imo).
You give mesmer MOA elite because, after all game is, or should be, 5vs5 balanced and there are other people to “save” you even if you get MOAd.What happens?
Example scenario: 5 mesmers vs 5 warriors, mesmers pop 3 clones each no warrior can find real target and they get MOAd and killed 1 by 1 like chickens.
So you, once again, need to find the way to balance that encounter, presumably by removing MOA elite and toning down that clone spam ( exactly what you need to do in 1vs1 balance).But it dont stop there you also need to test and balance every possible 5vs 5 scenario to be able to call the game 5vs5 balanced,for example:1 warrior 4 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, 2 warriors 3 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, 2 warriors 3 mesmers vs 2 warriors 3 mesmers etc list is endless.
This is why i view 5vs5 balance as an impossible thing to do even if there were only 2 classes in the game and there are 8 atm to work with.
Again, maybe i am wrong but this is my opinion.

2vs1 is utter disasterimo and all because of downed system. Few days ago i logged in with my ranger for some pvp ( free tournament if i remember correctly).I go to a point and there is a engineer with half hp.I go into fight with him then his ranger buddy shows up.I down engineer and damage him from time to time to stop him from rezing while i fight ranger.I down a ranger too at this point my health is very low, then engineer pulls me in and does that explosion thing and i go down too.Next thing i know engineer is on his feet?!? and i get stomped.So i win a fight 1vs2 fair and square then i get defeated because of a crappy game mechanic, i know there are people out there who can understand how frustrating that is.Logged out, haven’t played since. I remember when i was playing Warhammer online with my marauder,winning a fight 1 vs 2 in or against a higher level player was so much fun and exciting and so exhilarating and satisfying, you earned that victory and it was yours.That is probably the feeling i miss the most when i pvp in GW 2.

“Paid” tournament.This tournament you need to pay to enter.Only requirement is that you have tickets.What an absurd to charge entry fee for a pvp.Embarrassing.

First time i hear good responsivenes of your avatar can make people sick.
Also i have noticed that if you turn auto attack off you can only turn your character by holding right mouse button if you press skill buttons like auto attack etc.Just make it so that you can turn your character when you hold right mouse button at all times regardless if you are in combat or not and add turning character animation so that he dont turn like he is impaled on a stick.

I like WoW pvp better , yes its imbalanced atm and there is too much emphasis on dps, but at least there i can see stealth player when he attacks me and unlike mesmer moa mage sheep breaks on attack and he cant spam his clones, he needs to use them tactically.At least in wow you can target nearest PLAYER not his turret or minion.At least in wow point capture is not only pvp mode, and you can duel people and there are no bugs.A-net needs to fix these things to even begin to create proper PvP system.
Compared to WoW GW2 feels like its still in beta.

Walorx.5129:

Khyras.8021:

Walorx.5129:

The people being kittens here are just jealous baddies who got stomped by a thief once and rage quit. PVP IS AWESOME AND I LOVE EVERYONE. HAIL SATAN

Apparently, only mentally challenged think this game has great pvp for “elite players” only.

Where in the world did you get that from what I said? Hahaha people just don’t like to read these days. Only see what they want too, eh?

I see that you need to take your medication.

Walorx.5129:

The people being kittens here are just jealous baddies who got stomped by a thief once and rage quit. PVP IS AWESOME AND I LOVE EVERYONE. HAIL SATAN

Apparently, only mentally challenged think this game has great pvp for “elite players” only.

Your post is obnoxious, and so are you.

I am creating this thread because “You cant balance the game around 5vs5” thread was closed by moderator, i feel this is an important issue to discuss and would like to see one of pvp devs respond to it.Here is my comment made in closed thread that describes my thoughts on the issue:

“Well here is why i think 1vs 1 balance is imperative.I may be wrong, but this is why i think.
Lets first make things very simple and assume there are only 2 classes in the game : mesmers and warriors.Now, to balance mesmer and warrior all you have to do is make sure that 1 class has no unfair advantage over the other, and that outcome of the fight is decided by skill and/or luck only.To do that you cannot, for example, give mesmer unremovable elite like MOA.Why? because it incapacitates warrior for 10 seconds which more than enough for burst mesmer to burn him down with warrior having no chance to defend himself.So, all you have to do is balance mesmers vs warriors skills, traits sigils etc.
Now lets move on to 5vs5 balance (very similar to what we have now imo).
You give mesmer MOA elite because, after all game is, or should be, 5vs5 balanced and there are other people to “save” you even if you get MOAd.What happens?
Example scenario: 5 mesmers vs 5 warriors, mesmers pop 3 clones each no warrior can find real target and they get MOAd and killed 1 by 1 like chickens.
So you, once again, need to find the way to balance that encounter, presumably by removing MOA elite and toning down that clone spam ( exactly what you need to do in 1vs1 balance).But it dont stop there you also need to test and balance every possible 5vs 5 scenario to be able to call the game 5vs5 balanced,for example:1 warrior 4 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, 2 warriors 3 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, 2 warriors 3 mesmers vs 2 warriors 3 mesmers etc list is endless.
This is why i view 5vs5 balance as an impossible thing to do even if there were only 2 classes in the game and there are 8 atm to work with.
Again, maybe i am wrong but this is my opinion.”
Feel free to comment.

If someone is strafing and you dont hit error message should be “miss” not “obstructed”.Obstructed means there is something between you and your target causing you to be unable to hit that target.Random “obstructed” messages are a bug ( a very frustrating and imo game breaking bug ) not a feature.

Shukran.4851:

how can u balance different core mechanics of the classes?? come on

To start with, you make sure no class has unfair advantage over the other and move on from there.

Cookie cutter like mesmers and thieves burst because they can get away with it and the rest bunker up to survive?

Well here is why i think 1vs 1 balance is imperative.I may be wrong, but this is why i think.
Lets first make things very simple and assume there are only 2 classes in the game : mesmers and warriors.Now, to balance mesmer and warrior all you have to do is make sure that 1 class has no unfair advantage over the other, and that outcome of the fight is decided by skill and/or luck only.To do that you cannot, for example, give mesmer unremovable elite like MOA.Why? because it incapacitates warrior for 10 seconds which more than enough for burst mesmer to burn him down with warrior having no chance to defend himself.So, all you have to do is balance mesmers vs warriors skills, traits sigils etc.
Now lets move on to 5vs5 balance (very similar to what we have now imo).
You give mesmer MOA elite because, after all game is, or should be, 5vs5 balanced and there are other people to “save” you even if you get MOAd.What happens?
Example scenario: 5 mesmers vs 5 warriors, mesmers pop 3 clones each no warrior can find real target and they get MOAd and killed 1 by 1 like chickens.
So you, once again, need to find the way to balance that encounter, presumably by removing MOA elite and toning down that clone spam ( exactly what you need to do in 1vs1 balance).But it dont stop there you also need to test and balance every possible 5vs 5 scenario to be able to call the game 5vs5 balanced,for example:1 warrior 4 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, 2 warriors 3 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, 2 warriors 3 mesmers vs 2 warriors 3 mesmers etc list is endless.
This is why i view 5vs5 balance as an impossible thing to do even if there were only 2 classes in the game and there are 8 atm to work with.
Again, maybe i am wrong but this is my opinion.

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .