^
Why do you think LoL is popular? Because its so easy to understand. Even casuals who get burst down by certain LoL characters are okay with it because they simply understand why. I proposed a solution, I wasn’t really trying to insult the guy this time around.
Apparently Jon Peters said the community had to act first in regards on “how to deal with burst for dummies” or “how to deal with bunkers for dummies.”
Also, burst is a real issue? No it isn’t. There has to be a way to punish and an incentive to dodge anything that can punish. You want to tone down burst as is right now? Survivability should be toned down too if that’s the case. The only thing that this game need right now is infrastructure and some tweaks (I.E Mesmers, Warrior traits, etc).
How do you dodge mesmer burst when imobilized? People know how to dodge they dont need “i kill you in 1 sec” incentive.
Edit: I do not care what Jon Peters said i can think for myself, i played wow, swtor AoC and warhammer online and GW2 pvp system is worst i have ever seen so he should be doing something to improve that and not call people who disagree with him “dummies”.
All of you CRYING noobs are calling for nerfing burst. I SAY NERF BUNKERING. Bunkering is more OP than burst. Think about it.
Your comment does not make any sense.Bunker can hold a point but he cant kill someone in 1-2 secs which is way more frustrating imo.And show some respect to your fellow players you can make your point without calling people noobs just because your opinion differs from theirs.Furthermore, if you state your opinion in capital letters it dont make it true.
“so this is where the devs have to balance catering to casuals and people who know how to play correctly”.
You think there are 2 types of players in GW2: casuals and people who know how to play correctly?Casuals do not know how to play correctly so they complain about mesmers and thieves not being fun to play against?
Personally I like fighting Mesmers and Thieves, it is an interesting cat and mouse game trying to bait out certain skills. But of course you have to know what to be looking for. I think this is where most casual players find issues. They don’t go the extra mile to learn their opponent and in that case thieves and mesmers can be very frustrating to play against.
I guess their overabundance in hot join can get old pretty quickly though, but I avoid hot join unless I’m just testing a new build or something. The majority of the playerbase is in hot join though so this is where the devs have to balance catering to casuals and people who know how to play correctly.
You just called people who agree with OP a bunch of noobs who dont know how to play against thieves and mesmers.There is no way that game is actually better without cheap classes like mesmers and thieves?
Players like you are the reason why i dont like MMOs.You comment disgusts me, sir.
Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).
I can confirm this from my own experience.When there are no thieves or mesmers present quality of pvp increases tenfold at least and more importantly there is no frustration caused by cheap and unfair mechanics given to these 2 classes.
Agreed, switching class is ridiculous.Imho you should not be able to even use class in tourneys if you are not lvl 80 with that class or there should be some incentive to choose your class and stick with it like separate rank progression for each character you make.Current spvp system just cheapens spvp progression and i use term progression loosely because atm there is no meaningful progression in spvp.
Roll guardian then just go to cap point, spam retaliation ans stand there like a lemon.
Roll a warrior and use charge,quickness,hundred blades then swing your sword like a madman untill your cds are back up.
Roll a thief and put everything in dps traits no worries if you fail to kill someone in one burst no worries you can stealth 15 times during same engagement.
It’s not 1v1 or 5v5, they balance around the conquest game mode. I think they are trying to put each class in certain roles based around this game mode, i.e. bunker, roamer, etc.
Specific XvX balancing is for deathmatch type games.
Every time someone says they balance game around conquest mode my stomach starts to turn,because that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard.What happens when new mode is introduced like CTF? How you gonna balance the game around conquest AND CTF for example?Or are you saying 1 game mode with different maps is all we get from GW 2? I would rather have 3 game mods on the same map than 1 game mod on 15 maps.Just blance the game around 1vs1 (or try to do so to the best of your ability) and give us more pvp modes that are actually fun to play before its too late and you end up with your few “top teams” playing on empty servers.
How about this: To be able to compete on the top lvl you need to attain certain rank.Ranks are only attainable through wins, not through farming glory, if you lose you get nothing or maybe just a small amount of XP.There we go: you cant compete on a top lvl ( call it a tier, league or whatever) if you dont improve yourself as a PvPer and all without ridiculous concept of buying or farming some stupid tickets.Existing concept is insulting and ridiculous.
Needing to buy […] to be able to pvp in some game is a laughable concept.
Like some kind of… I don’t know… subscription fee?
Subscription fee games advertise themselves as such, this is supposed to be Buy2 Play game, not “Buy2Play oh you bought it ok if you wanna pvp you need tickets no big deal you can grind them too even tho we have a no grind policy” game.
Needing to buy or farm some “tickets” ( like its a movie or something) to be able to pvp in some game is a laughable concept.Why stop there i say, introduce tickets to enter high lvl dungeons too or to be able to log in every day.Hey, its no problem, you can always grind them if you dont wanna buy.Dont know about you all but i think something like this should have never been part of this game.
Agreed.Game is balanced when any class is given reasonable enough chance to beat any other class in 1vs1, which means win or lose is decided by skill and/or luck, not by what class you are fighting against.This balance is often hard to accomplish, but it should nevertheless be goal of every pvp dev in any MMO.
“I will note that not even WoW had this dumbed down movement”.
What do you mean not even WoW? WoW pvp sytem is ten times better than GW2 is.Yes you can spam skill and it wont go on CD until it executes but that only means you are able to watch your opponent not UI to see if you are in range which far better imho.
Hit him 3 times and he is dead? Problem is he hits 1 time and you are dead.
Mesmers are the most disgusting class in history of MMOs and people playing mesmers are worse with “dont nerf or i quit” BS.Just quit i dont give a kitten.
Problem: stale repetitive pvp because only burst and bunker/conditions builds are viable.
Solution: Increase effectiveness of toughness and make it mitigate percentage of condition damage and reduce duration and effectiveness of boons.Presto, no more burst spammers and unkillable bunker/conditions spammers and, as a bonus, no need to nerf anyone.
what will we do with spvp, what will we do with spvp early in the morning?
Make it fun for a casual player, make it fun for a casual player,make it fun for a casual player early in the morning. Refrain: way hey and up she rises, way hey and up she rises,way hey and up she rises early in the morning.
This game simply has worst pvp system i have ever seen, and i played wow, war, aoc, gw 1 and currently play swtor.Combat is probably best ive seen but everything else is simply sub-standard. My impression is that pvp system is made by someone who is stil learning how pvp system should work.My advice? release new and fun spvp game modes asap so that people ( casual pvpers mainly which are the largest part of pvp community in any mmo) can login and actually have fun while pvping.Otherwise, you will end up with empty servers with few “hardcore” paid tpvp teams playing against eachother.
Example: few days ago there was a bug in swtor making your companion not benefit from equipment bonuses after you summon him.That bug was fixed within 24 hours.Here, they cannot fix a game breaking bug and it has been a month since it appeared.Moreover, this is not first time that bug has occurred. And i am ignorant for criticizing ? Are you kidding me? Its time to put some pressure on these people, my respect for A-net is gone,
Bunker/conditions ranger build is the most viable atm but i refuse to play it because its almost identical to ele/guard bunker builds, its based on same principles (high toughness, regen,condition damage for kills).Its pretty pathetic that everything comes down to a bunker with regen+condition damage or thief burst.Variety in pvp is truly dead .
Entire mesmer profession is based on cheap annoying mechanics like clone spamming,confusion/retaliation spam.Its the most disgusting class in history of MMOs.
Separate skills from weapons so that, for example, i can put skills i liked on 1 hander on my greatsword, or the skills i like on sb on my lb.This would only apply to skills on similar types of wepons ofc and auto attack skills would remain wepon specific.That way you could use weapons you really like AND skills you really like similar to GW 1.There would be a lot more variety with builds and a lot more character customization and tactical options for pvp, and you would not be forced to play certain way or with certain wepons only.Using certain wepons and certain skills all the time just because they are optimal atm gets old really quick.
PvP should be done like in other MMOs.You can only enter 1 match at the time and when it is finished you must reenter queue for next match.If you leave match at any point you get deserter debuff and cannot enter pvp for a certain amount of time.The way things work atm , there is no deserter debuff in spvp because you got to next map automatically and you must be able to exit pvp when you get bored or have no more time to play or dont want to play certain map.Which means most matches will be with uneven number of players and you cannot win against larger number because even if you kill someone he gets rezed in few seconds.Entire spvp system is faulty at its core.
They want people to spend real money to buy tickets to play pvp.Kinda obvious and utterly pathetic if you ask me.You need 5 tickets to enter paid tournament.Not one.Five.Why ? Because they sell them for real money.Shameful.
Thanks for the feedback all. It sounds like it’s happening with different criteria for some of you, so we’ll keep looking at it internally and listening to your feedback.
Sorry it’s frustrated some of you, we’ll keep looking at it.
What you lookin at? Its not the first occurrence of this bug you know very well its there just fix it without breaking something else. If you know how which i doubt.
You people talk as if only condition damage in game is bleed.How about guardian applying 1 burn pretty much per every attack? How you remove that? Or mesmer applying stacks of confusion every 3-4 seconds? Or necro spamming conditions with staff, scepter and utility skills?
Bleeds require time to apply enough stacks to do any sort of noticable damage. Wait till it stacks up and then wipe them to reset your opponents damage output. This is balanced, if you find yourself constantly dieing to conditions, I’d suggest looking at more condition removal options. All classes have them.
Then between condition removal and toughness cond dmg would be just crap.
Would not be crap would be reasonable.Every time im downed its either retaliation,conditions or thief burst.Where is normal damage? why is it considered second grade? Condition damage should be auxiliary except maybe for necros, not main source of damage on almost every occasion.
THIS IS NOT A 1vs1 GAME
THIS IS NOT A DEATHMATCH
THIS IS A COOPERATIVE GAME WHERE EVERYONE MUST PLAY FOR A TEAM NOT FOR HIMSELF
Do you want to go 1vs1 all the time? …go play street fighter, we will be really grateful
When everyone moves on to some other game who will you play with dimwit?
would be to increase effectiveness of toughness and make it mitigate condition damage and to reduce effectiveness of health regen .No more unreasonably high burst damage and hp regen unkillable tanks ( they would need to rely more on heal utility skill like everyone else).Also, this way unpopular nerfs would be avoided completely.Just my oppinion.
Im not saying its the same thing.Im saying when channeling i should be able to hold right mouse button and follow his movement while standing still and atm i cant do that because you can only turn when moving, while on the other hand some skills cause you to face your opponent without needing to right mb turn like thief dagger skills 2 and 3.
Anyone else have a problem when playing low mobility class like necro against high mobility like bleed thief ?. Seems some classes can change their position 10 times more by using skills like evade bleed and dodge than you can turn to face them cause of no right mb turn causing your channeled skills to be almost unusable.
I hope they see these posts because they contain a lot of valuable information on things to implement that will drastically improve the game. I’m sure they do. I trust that ArenaNet’s team is putting a lot of effort to try and work things out. The game is still fairly new. It’s a lot of work to accomplish and I’m sure all the new features will be implemented eventually…
I dont believe they are capable of fixing anything because they could not even apply in GW 2 things that worked well in GW 1. When i think of GW2 PvP i think what an amateur system., must be made by PvErs.Agree with OP completely, good post.
You need to concentrate on 1 or max 2 professions and play them a lot and constantly.Do not be afraid to try new things, new specs, sigils, runes.Analyze what went wrong when you lose.Best thing would be to pvp on a profession you have most experience with because there is lot to learn.So yeah, invest time and it will pay off more you play better you get.And play with profession you like best not the ones you hear are OP or whatever.Yes they are OP atm but they will be that much easier to kill when they get toned down. I play ranger myself and yes i can win 1 vs 1 against any other profession even tho some of them have vast advantage atm.
On my Thief I (ussualy) have no problems dealing with Ele’s
On My Ele i never have a problem when dealing with Thiefs (unless im already tanking 2-3 ppl, then 2 more thieves jump in when im at 50% hp or lower in full power/crit builds while my cantrips are on cd and just go 222222222 spam for those massive heartseekers and still so 2 – 3k damage per hit even though i have 2269 toughness lol)
So i guess its true half of the time
Exactly what OP said thieves and bunkers only are viable.
Class balance is a joke and there is entirely to much cc and condition damage for a fast paced style combat full of burst builds.Those things combined make pvp in this game a bad joke for any true pvp player.I have played wow,war and aoc pvp and this is the first time i see something in a pvp game that makes me go " Are you serious ?" Its like pvp is made by people that only ever did pve and are just learning how things work in pvp.Laughable.
Confusion forces you to carefully consider your next moments, do you attack through it,knowing for certain that you will take damage but the target may not? Do you wait it out, knowing that you’re giving someone a break from pressure? Or do you cleanse it, with the knowledge that it will fade in 3-4s?
These are hard choices, and that is the whole point of confusion, to force you to make a snap decision that isn’t an easy call. If you’re constantly under large stacks of it, you either need to wait it out and reset the fight, or clean it if you wish to keep on fighting. Smaller stacks can be ignored depending on circumstances.
Wait it out for 3 or 4 seconds? 3-4 seconds is an eternity especialy with unchecked burst damage from thieves and condition stacks.I cant reset engagement like thieves.While im staring at him for 4 seconds his clones dps me and his cds are coming back up.I cant check him for retaliation check my ui for confusion and look for “real” mesmer all at the same time.Entire mesmer profession is a joke for any person who played pvp in any other online game. Some things that are unfair advantage you just dont allow when balancing pvp.
Was just fighting mesmers in tpvp with warrior this time.I took 3 cond removers ( 2 shouts and a signet) Whenever im fighting mesmer confusion is almost constantly on me.I spend all 3 cond removers to remove confusion the i look at ui lo and behold 8 stacks of confusion on me.Entire fight takes less than a minute. Who ever designed this pvp system never spent a day playing pvp in any MMO.I think they are trolling us or something.
Easiest way to fix current pvp classses imbalance: Increase effectivness of toughness 2 or 3 times and make it mitigate cond damage and reduce guard and ele healing.There you go no more massive dps bursts and you got yourself nice sustainable pvp.For quick kills play cod not mmorpgs.
Any ability that makes you watch your UI and not the fight is poor design, IMO. Not sure why games are still putting in abilities like this… they don’t really add much as far as strategy but cause all sorts of weird stuff.
Exactly i have enough trouble finding him in the first place then when i find him i should wait for ret/confusion to expire? What a joke.
