Guild Wars 2

Not that I’m trying to argue this, but how does this compare to Riot/League of Legends?

Making DE’s more fun. Not just throwing waves of mobs over and over. Spawn some veteran mobs with a mechanic (buffs other mobs, spawns more mobs something), champion mob mini-boss. Basically more objectives than : aoe down some mobs.

Allow us to be rewarded for doing content in old zones similar to that of high level zones. Karma/XP/Coin rewards or w/e.

More and more cosmetic carrots, but instead of just sticking them onto vendors put them on named mobs that wander around and tend to hide out in secret puzzle areas of all the old maps that drop unique skins for people to hunt down.

And eventually more Legendaries I suppose. =p

Oh and make boss fights (dungeons AND world bosses) more fun and dynamic. Instead of just sitting there dpsing with no thought, make it like the Tequatl fight that we used to see in videos before the game came out. It wasn’t just dpsing the dragon’s head for 10 minutes, you had to do a myriad of things. Just give us some fun and difficult boss mechanics.

I would be more than happy with all of this.

Thomly.5792:

I actually don’t really get this thread.

You obviously haven’t played a bunch of other “great graphics” MMO’s like Aion (CryEngine) or FFXIV. I find GW2’s performance a lot better in comparison.

I had way better performance with Aion. Atleast in zerg vs zerg situations.

I’ve noticed certain particle effects just annihilate my fps. Hell just looking straight up in Rata Sum cuts my fps in half.

I don’t really roleplay much, but whenever someone is downed or dies I get overly emotional as I try to save them from the brink of death.

Always fun.

VormundGeist.3876:

Knote.2904:

vidiotking.1928:

VormundGeist.3876:

Knote.2904:

VormundGeist.3876:

Knote.2904:

As a 23 year old who also started with Everquest (thanks dad).

/Fistbump

/Fistbump indeed
What other MMOs have you been through?

Went from EQ —> DAoC (my irresponsible dad pulled me out of school early for release) --> WoW (on and off for years with tons of other MMO’s in between)

Cool, Ive been around too many to count honestly, I know that somewhere in the list is FFXI though, LOVED that one

SWG>EQ>GW2.

After that mmo’s, in my book, become pretty anonymous. Games like Shadowbane, Vanguard, Asherons call 1 &2, Rift, WoW, AoC, WAR, and Aion all become muddled in my mind.

Ooooh I forgot about Vanguard. God I loved that one. I wish it didn’t bomb so hard on release. I remember trying it out multiple times years later and see it still barely hanging on lol.

Didn’t Vanguard kinda flop because the whole, terraform and creating towns thing got kinda super tedious?

You’re talking of a completely different game. There was no terraforming or town creating lol.

Vanguard was meant to be a predecessor to the old school Everquest 1. The world was absolutely, disgustingly MASSIVE and awesome. The crafting was the most complex, in depth, realistic, and fun I’ve seen in any game ever (there was even a completely different leveling system for each char 1-80 Adventurer, Crafting, and Diplomat). The classes were fun, diverse enough and had their own interesting class mechanics.

The game, as he said, was rushed out and buggy beyond belief and just bled players which doomed the game. SOE swooped in and “Saved” it by fixing a ton of things and had a small team pumping out raid content and stuff. But they also never advertised it or helped it grow again. I weep to this day.

vidiotking.1928:

VormundGeist.3876:

Knote.2904:

VormundGeist.3876:

Knote.2904:

As a 23 year old who also started with Everquest (thanks dad).

/Fistbump

/Fistbump indeed
What other MMOs have you been through?

Went from EQ —> DAoC (my irresponsible dad pulled me out of school early for release) --> WoW (on and off for years with tons of other MMO’s in between)

Cool, Ive been around too many to count honestly, I know that somewhere in the list is FFXI though, LOVED that one

SWG>EQ>GW2.

After that mmo’s, in my book, become pretty anonymous. Games like Shadowbane, Vanguard, Asherons call 1 &2, Rift, WoW, AoC, WAR, and Aion all become muddled in my mind.

Ooooh I forgot about Vanguard. God I loved that one. I wish it didn’t bomb so hard on release. I remember trying it out multiple times years later and see it still barely hanging on lol.

Yeah, it’s another thing that screws condition builds (and thus necro’s) quite a bit.

Depending on how hard you’ve neglected your power, I suggest just death shroud life transfer and life blasts + Well of Suffering.

Hit the suggestion forums my man!

VormundGeist.3876:

Knote.2904:

As a 23 year old who also started with Everquest (thanks dad).

/Fistbump

/Fistbump indeed
What other MMOs have you been through?

Went from EQ —> DAoC (my irresponsible dad pulled me out of school early for release) --> WoW (on and off for years with tons of other MMO’s in between)

Illushia.3721:

ANet seems very against adding anything to make anything ‘automatic’ as far as combat or movement are concerned.

Adding something to your target to make them more visible would probably be a better alternative.

Like auto-targeting right?

As a 23 year old who also started with Everquest (thanks dad).

/Fistbump

melkathi.5203:

No it’s not time for that yet. First they need to get all those DEs working so people can actually enjoy the existing content.

This.

If they decide to ignore all of the content they have now that they should be improving so most of it is actually fun and decide to just pump out NEW stuff in new zones that’s still the same old crap : spawn wave of mobs spawn wave of mobs spawn wave of mobs, DONE! I will be extremely dissapointed.

Deepcuts.9740:

Who the kitty cat watches a GW2 “stream”?
What is the reason of watching someone else play?
I do not get it
Who invented the term “e-sport”? That is hilarious
This generation forgot what sport means it seems.

“- Hey, I have a heart condition. I think I will die”
“- Why?”
“- My heart can’t cope with my body weight…although I am doing e-sports. Must be the food….”

Like chess right?

Rixileon.9018:

Ironangel.1548:

K, let’s just have no sense of accomplishment, ever again, and slap a fun sticker on it! are you sure you are not a game scientist? you sure know the meaning of fun.

I must. I’ve been having fun playing the game.

I play because for me it is fun to go exploring in a fantasy world what with all the random adventures that I get into. The game not having an “!” over npc heads at quest hubs makes it a little more immersive for me, and not having to worry about gear gives me a sense of adventuring just for the sake of it.

But I suppose the world has a place for people who strive to make accomplishments fun. Most my friends who have fun by accomplishing things do so at work, and the more money they make the more fun they have. Perhaps you should try that? Better than “accomplishing” something in a virtual world which equates to jack kitten.

I don’t think you’re allowed to use that an as argument considering there is plenty of progression while leveling up. It would be alot different if there was 0 sense of accomplishment while leveling up compared to how it is now.

Sure it would still be cute finding a few secrets/easter eggs and lore bits, but it would get boring much sooner, fighting stuff with the same few attacks doing the same dmg and effects, gaining no xp from killing things, or discovering things, no loot from mobs, no levels, no upgrading skills or traits, no “2 more levels til X trait/skill yay!!”, no crafting etc.

Malas.9425:

Apotheosis.3786:

Not everything can be dodged. There is constant radiating AoE damage that doesn’t even have a spell effect. I tried glass cannon, and I was constantly 1 shot by things that you cannot see. I tried a healing power build, and my heals were a joke. No, your only option is to balance our your stats so that you can simultaneously heal tank and dps. Trying to focus on one is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly! You decide how much of each though, it is all up to you weather you do just slightly more damage then someone else or are slightly more survivable. It is a amazing design.

You’re joking right?

“You can do 10% more or less dmg than everyone else! AMAZING customization!”

LOL.

And really all this does is screw class balance further because a few classes by default have absolute crap base HP. While other’s can have more and do the same dmg, or have similar hp and do much more dmg.

Besides having one shot mechanics that’s just impossible to avoid is terrible design.

Oh also about evading and melee, I would love if using dodge while standing still would do a stationary dodge instead of defaulting to a backwards dodge.

Could have a nice stationary dodge animation.

There have been times where I have to dodge but can’t move too far w/o getting gibbed on a trap or aoe or something.

On topic of this being fun-centric, I would hope they make it so everything gives similar reward, such as going to low level areas. I thought that was supposed to be the case. But karma rewards and what not don’t scale or anything.

Yeah I still find one shot mechanics/abilities that have absolutely 0 warning or you just die instantly and have no idea why so when you get back up, you immediately die again because you have know what what’s going on lol.

I definately agree and really really hope Anet gets around to finishing traits up and adding more customization to weapon skills.

A red posted about this.

They did mention it’s always possible to change in the future.

And I’d imagine if the game is esports worthy and starts going in that direction they may change their mind.

Zalmea.7320:

Malediktus.9250:

Seems fair to me, I never put ads on any of my videos. Ads are annoying.

Not fair for people that making a living out of gaming :P

That specific guy has some vendetta on ads, even though he has adblock. =p

Salt.4621:

I agree with the repetition in cities or areas where players would gather. ie Crafting stations, banks.

The repetitive cheering you can hear when crafting in Divinitys Reach drives me nuts after a while. Also crafting in Claypool, Queensdale with the NPC saying, “Hold… Hold… Hold… Fire!” every 10 seconds. Sometimes I’d wish they’d turn and fire on him instead.

Maybe in future cities could add a little more randomness in crafting areas? Or a little less repetitiveness.

Something something kids.

Should show them a lesson.

With VIOLENCE?!

Repeat x100

So I was just doing my thing exploring/leveling in Snowden Drifts and I happen upon a Dynamic Event and it was eerily similar to an example I was giving about how more DE’s should be.

Basically Dredge were assaulting this Norn Town/hub sending the usual waves of weak enemies (like most DE’s). Suddenly a veteran dredge mining suit comes with a wave, and start walking around spawning Dredge Turrets that were sieging me and 1-2 other people doing the event.

And you know what? It was actually kinda/sorta challenging (not faceroll atleast) and a little more interesting than the normal tab spam, spam aoe, spam 1 sort of deal.

Afterwards it immediately chained into going to the dredge cave and destroying the cave supports which resulted in the cave collapsing and spewing us out of the cave which left a giant wall of rock blocking the cave (which you could still climb over).

It was dynamic, it changed the world a bit, and it wasn’t the same old spawn wave of mobs, aoe down, spawn wave of mobs, aoe down. It was fun.

Anyway, great job on that one Anet and I hope more end up like it.

Here’s a quote of my post so you can see how similar the event was to my suggestion, it’s like the game is reading my mind.

Knote.2904:

Find some a DE chain with Dredge sieging a town not just throwing waves of weak mobs, but some infantry with a couple Veteran mobs running around buffing everyone with auras. More players show up, suddenly Dredge Turrets start popping up all around the town, people trying to kill off the Veteran Aura mobs before mobs become too strong, another chunk of people go and try to take out the turrets laying siege to the players. Suddenly a Champion mob comes in and tries to wipe out the main friendly NPC. In the end we barely manage to kill it and get some good Karma/xp close to that of 70-80 zone rewards.

Yeah I definately can appreciate the voice acting and random chatter.

Some things definately repeat a little too much if you happen to hang out in a city somewhere lol.

Well I don’t think it’s too big of a deal. But if this game starts getting into E-sport or something I’d imagine it would change.

ShakyrNvar.6293:

Easy to get? It’skittenannoying and time consuming, to try and make sure you get 15 kill varieties.

Well it’s not supposed to be something you aim to do, something that just happens naturally while playing.

And if it’s not good enough of a reward then why are you focusing on getting it if it’s time consuming lol.

Malediktus.9250:

Monetization of videos is bad. I always have to use AdBlock Plus because ads are annoying.

Really depends on the video. What makes it bad?

I use adblock as well, but I’m able to turn it off to support the content providers I enjoy.

I’m actually extremely shocked that anet is against it. Riot has absolutely no problem with youtubers and streamers, they encourage it if anything.

I know people will say it’s because of Cash Shop reasons.

But even if this game was sub based I think I would be glad that they’re trying to keep currency meaningful.

I’ve been in too many MMO’s sub or f2p where currency inflates too much. I’ve f2p games that let me trade in-game currency for cash shop currency and with the inflation it becomes harder and much less satisfying. Here I feel like because I’m good with my money I’m actually rewarded.

In the end I think they should just work on having more options for “making money” or whatever is important in terms of progression “money/karma” etc.

Such as, making it viable to do stuff in lower level areas and still be rewarded for it so you don’t feel you have to do the same stuff over and over. Besides I thought this was going to be the case anyway. =p

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I raided in WoW. I downed bosses in Firelands. Even did a few of them on heroic. Downed some of the bosses in the regular Dragon Soul. I’m tired of raiding. I’m tired of working so long and hard to get my gear only for it to end up being worthless when the next tier hits. I love it when my character looks awesome. I hate it when that awesome gear becomes useless.

I enjoy playing GW2. The dynamic events and the dungeons, for me, give me as much thrill as raiding 10 man content ever did. And the best thing is, after I grind out all the tokens for the dungeon set I want for my characters, I know it won’t be obsolete when the next expansion is released.

I’m sorry that those of you who want to keep on chasing carrots are disappointed. The game is exactly what Anet has been saying it would be. I really don’t understand why you are complaining now.

You know, if you were equally (or closely) rewarded for doing stuff in lower leveled areas as well as top level, with it still being quite challenging (gear not making as much of an impact), so that you don’t feel forced to do Orr stuff to grind for your karma, etc.

And if the content (such as DE’s) were really as fun and dynamic as a they could be (aoe zerging down weak mobs over and over isn’t fun) and boss fights were as fun as say wow’s boss fights (not just a tank and spank but actual fun mechanics).

AND if there were more cosmetic carrots (let’s say there were certain mobs you had to find and hunt down for unique skins) in EVERY zone.

This game would definately be alot more fun and have more longevity w/o going against Anet’s philosophy. Hell I’m sure this may all come in time and I’ll be patient, but I don’t think Anet expects for there to be so little to do (atleast fun things).

I can picture it now. Logging on after I’m finally lvl 80, maybe half way to my legendary. Decide I feel like doing some stuff in Diessu Plateau.

Find some a DE chain with Dredge sieging a town not just throwing waves of weak mobs, but some infantry with a couple Veteran mobs running around buffing everyone with auras. More players show up, suddenly Dredge Turrets start popping up all around the town, people trying to kill off the Veteran Aura mobs before mobs become too strong, another chunk of people go and try to take out the turrets laying siege to the players. Suddenly a Champion mob comes in and tries to wipe out the main friendly NPC. In the end we barely manage to kill it and get some good Karma/xp close to that of 70-80 zone rewards.

Ask some guildies if they want to work together to hunt down a named mob that drops 1 of 3 unique shoulder skins, we luckily manage to find one in a jumping puzzle area and struggle to kill it and get our skins. Decide to go take on an explorable dungeon and see if we can manage to kill a certain boss this time around, the mechanic is pretty tricky but it definately is fun, and will give us some decent progress toward our legendary/w.e.

This is how I imagine “endgame” to be.

Considering how easy they are to get I don’t think it’s too bad.

I’m sure they want to stay away from “Dailies that give alot of money” or just too much of a good thing so people feel forced to get on every single day. Which I’m sorta grateful for, I despise that feeling of skipping important dailies.

On the bright side if there’s a cap on mob farming that sort of benefits you if you don’t play often.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Gave.9408:

If you can honestly say you’d still play this game without levels, stats, gear, or any sort of progression / reward, then you’re certainly not the MAJORITY of MMO players – in fact, you’re a fraction much smaller than even the RPers, I would believe.

I agree I’m not in the majority of MMO players. The question is, is that because there aren’t a lot of players like me, or is that because there aren’t any significant MMOs that offer the kind of game design and philosophy that would attract players like me to such a game? How many people play SIMS? How many play “angry birds”? How may play solitaire?

And yes, I’d play this game if all gear was just cosmetic variance and there were no levels.

It’s amusing to watch these so-called “true” gamers defend an obviously flawed system in which they are entirely oblivious as to their own motivation.

More amusing than someone who professes to know their motivation better than them?

I don’t see any of them calling themselves “true” gamers. Just because you and I have different motivations for playing doesn’t mean my motivation is better than yours. It just means we have different motivations. If I have a complaint, it’s that you and people like you seem to refuse to believe that we simply do not play games for the same reasons you do, nor do you seem content to allow us to have and enjoy a game that is designed in accordance with our view, even when you and others have scores of games that service and celebrate your progression-centric motivation.

I mean, really? You can’t allow us to have one single game in the MMOG market that isn’t progress/reward-centric without complaining and criticising and trying to change it?

After re-reading your post it seems more like you’re talking about just ways to gain currency as opposed to “optional carrots” I will refrain from posting now lol.

Hickeroar.9734:

Yeah, unfortunately a bank slot is $7.50 real dollars, or about one and a half gold if you convert. Not bad if you have worked up a good steady stream of income from something, but the real money cost is way too steep.

If they were 300 gems, i would have bought two already, instead I have bought none. Fail in Anet’s part with the pricing of everything in the store, imho. It’s all very expensive with an unbalanced payoff.

600 for bank slots I can get.

What killed me was 400 for a bag slot

TBH I want them to massively extend their mob leashing and bring back the ole’ “Trains”.

Why are Ele not a bisquits and gravy? Last straw Anet.

As far as pve goes the greatsword is actually quite handy.

I use it for mobility whenever I can. And as far dmg, besides being able to stack some good burn duration. If you de-target and charge through mobs, the fire trail does some SICK direct dmg. Even more disgusting if you can use it on a wall and have a mob sit on it. Tears stuff apart.

Same with the whirl, on walls. It’s also evades you. Great against objects as well.

On tougher mobs I tend to, un-target, 4 dash through a mob and quickly hit 3 while dashing so I immediately spin backwards through it again (evade/cripple) and continue pew pewing with 1 til I can do it again. Really nice dmg.

BishopX.6453:

i have to discredit this because its wvw
you are able to have a GEAR afvantage over your opponents
hell i have a video of a MELEE norseman healer from daoc, a holy dps priest in wow and lets not forget about my most famous DPS RUNEPRIEST videos from warhammer online i can roll out and I am forever flamed for.
if thats not enough, also check my youtube channel for my streetfighter 4 searies where i win with DAN HIBIKI and beat up ryus , kens and Akumas.

its like being a single mother…. just because you can do it dosent make it the right was for it to be done.

Holy monkeykitten

I think I remember you from Warhammer. We argued on the forums.. I think.

Stuka.7165:

As I’ve said a couple times now, hearts are not all im doing. I’ve Participated in a broad range of activities, everything available really. I gather everything I come across, I use all available resources any time I go near a crafting station, I participate in events, I explore, I do personal story missions, I’ve done limited wvw due to queues and being relatively useless with 2 skills slots, lack of traits, and lowbie gear.

This is where I fail to believe you.

I’m doing less than you, and EVERY time I’m overleveled.

I skip wvw/crafting and even personal story and I can be overleveled. Just gathering and killing mobs as I 0-100% the zone and do DE’s.

The only advice I can give you, if you plan on 100%’ing the zones, just go finish another 1-15 area.

Gave.9408:

If this game is not about progress or reward, then take out levels and anything with a stat on it.

That way, like the OP suggested, we can start to focus on the proverbial “fun” and forget about the “reward”.

Otherwise, everyone in this thread advocating the promotion of “fun over reward” is being entirely hypocritical.

Why even have levels or stats when, clearly, we don’t need progression to have fun. Progression, whether you like it or not, is a form of reward – you’re rewarded with a level, you’re rewarded with stat boosts.

ANET wouldn’t have even made levels or stats if this game was solely focused on “fun” and not “progression”.

So let’s just get rid of all stats and levels altogether! Unless, of course, you’re trying to say you need some sort of level-based reward system to have fun..

Lol this is the exact argument I use.

Hickeroar.9734:

I’ll admit I’ve had a lot of moments of frustration due to the relative lack of “rewards” and “gold” compared to games like WoW. Then I have to remember that I invested thousands of hours in games like Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament back in the early 00’s…and those games had NO concept of a reward other than success, or failure.

What it is, is a rewiring process. I’m getting to where I “get it,” but all these modern MMOs have basically programmed all of us to “Do A” and “Expect B in return.” The “need” for gold or gear to have fun in the game is actually minimal or non existent. Granted, i think the repair and waypoint costs are about 3-5x what they should be, but overall, I think the balance of income vs spending is not too far off.

Once you get out of the “got to get ahead” mindset, it all makes sense. It’s just very hard to escape that mindset after being programmed for a decade.

You just compared a pvp/fps game to pve in an MMORPG.

Part of RPG’s is progressions/customization/gear/etc (and I’m not just reffering to MMOrpg’s either). Part of that is also exploration and just fighting stuff.

Spvp would be the proper comparison when you’re referring to when you bring up counterstrike, etc.

And what do you mean “programmed for a decade”? Rpg’s with this concept have been here beyond the past 10 years. The ONLY thing I can think of that WoW has “programmed” players in a negative way is expecting the BEST rewards for barely any effort.

Instant gratification.

What’s funny is that people constantly say that anyone wanting “rewards” want “instant gratification” that’s not true AT ALL. People want to have carrots to work towards. It doesn’t have to be a gear treadmill, it doesn’t have to be REQUIRED. There is nothing wrong with having the proper rewards, or having optional carrots.

Of course on the other hand people make a fair argument about dungeons. They’re not rewarding sure… but if they’re also not fun then that’s an issue. Having atleast ONE of those makes them playable. Ideally both.

Are you gathering? Are you skipping too many mobs and ONLY exploring waypoints and doing events?

I’m consistently overleveled for every char in every zone I do.

I actually thought of this same exact idea.

I think it would be better to swap them.

Dark Path is an ability EVERY necro has to use, and only dagger (and MAYBE axe) necro’s would actually want to shoot into melee.

But most of the time if I want to pop dark path for the bleed/chill I want to stay where I’m at like I can with Life Blast.

They could completely swap the abilities. Dark Path becomes Spectral Grasp the way it is + the bleed. And Dark Path becomes a short cd utility that doesn’t have to rely on a projectile and is essentially a Shadow Step (that looks awesome) with some additional extra function like an aoe chill/blind or w/e.

Eochaidh.4106:

Caramel Ham.4891:

No. Its not the best mmo on the market. That title is still reserved for WoW. Before you bash me, no, i have not played WoW for many years now. But you cannot deny the level of content and polish WoW has.

That said, IF Anet can get their kittens together. Then this game definitely has the POTENTIAL to be the best MMO on the market.

WoW the best? Seriously? Is being popular the same as being the best now?

Considering how vague “best” is. Yes in the sense that best = most successful.

Yeah i’ve done uber glass cannon specs that go all out on crit/power with fire proc sigil.

Could easily finish off squishy people with 1 spam.

Was there a giant pretty tree spirit next to him? =p

LOL I would love to see that, people left standing there with their hand up cause no one wants to hi five them.

Swagman.9013:

Rizzy.8293:

I play males, why would I play a female?

Look at pixelated booty?
I have a nice set of booty to look at in real life. I don’t need anymore stimulus.

But hey thats cool for you if you wanna play a girl like shes your virtual barbie doll, just remember, when you call someone gay… you’re presenting yourself a girl :S

Sometimes I do like to treat my female characters like a barbie doll, on my human thief I sent her a pink dye I found on my warrior so I could give her a pretty pink outfit. But I also like working on cars and own a plethora of power tools.

I don’t roll females cause I want to play aroused all day, it’s a little something called variety, and my picks are based on what I feel fits right.

It’s ok guys, Swagman is still a man.

But rewards are fun.

Doing fun content and being rewarded is double fun.

Do you not want double fun?

I would’ve liked to see another class in those same situations. Would’ve been a 2 minute video probably lol.

All guys.

Dunno why exactly. I guess I always try to see a bit of myself in each of my characters.

edit : AND NOT IN THAT WAY…

Omnia Wind.2108:

Knote.2904:

Quaggan fan service.

The Quaggans are so cute _

“Senpai coo~”

Quaggan fan service.

Elric of Grans.7684:

Rangers are often associated with bows, but I cannot recall them ever using black powder weapons. It just goes completely against the theme of the class. You know, Rangers cannot wear metal armour either. The class has been like this in RPGs for nearly 40 years. It is well established: ArenaNet’s Ranger fits the standard Ranger class perfectly.

Melee Rangers? Tolkien (Aragorn was the original Ranger), D&D, Seiken Densetsu, just off the top of my head. It is hardly something groundbreaking. Rangers have used swords and spears since the beginning, but over the years tended to be increasingly associated with bows.

Considering how much nature magic they use it would really feel out of place using technology like that.

Don’t see druids coming out of the forest in their plant armor whipping out a shotgun to blow heads off lol.