I’ve said this many times but I’ll say it again.
Part of the problem is there are certain condition applications that spam short duration, bite-sized conditions that are almost completely immune to any cleansing in order to mitigate it.
Longbow Burst skill is by far the easiest example of this, the massive aoe and nearly constant uptime means it’s pretty much impossible to avoid if you need to be on a point (example of how drastic balance changes with something like conquest mode).
But it maintains 2s burn every 2 seconds… almost non stop, how example do you mitigate conditions like this?
You can compare it to direct dmg that functions the same way, but that can be mitigated by toughness/armor, protection, weakness etc… conditions can only be mitigated by cleansing (and healing which also mitigates direct dmg).
Short duration condition spam is basically uncounterable true dmg constantly being thrown at you.
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All this proves is that a warrior played extremely poorly w/o even trying can live for 30+ seconds of constant dmg pressure lol.
Do the same exact thing with another class where you barely do anything and see how long you last.
Well if you guys read, some of these changes aren’t THAT huge (some are) but others aren’t as far as how the code falls, much of it is just changing numbers that have a huge impact.
(Unlike the Thief change which would be a really huge change.)
Some yes, others like adding an actual healer class and redoing conditions are massive changes that would require a full rework of not just the mechanics involved, but would most likely need full reworks of most core pieces of the game.
Did he say adding a healer “class”? Lol.
It’s something I’ve been saying to remove bunkers and create “supports”, actually.
Nerfing self sustain and buffing usage for support skills on others instead.
Games like LoL and DotA don’t have pure healers either you know..
And there’s nothing about reworking conditions completely, just retuning them so they require some thought to make the game actually have some ounce of strategy in the combat..
That’s not going to make GW2 not GW2 lol……
TTK = time to kill, for anyone who’s confused.
ArenaNet has expressed many times that they believe in resolution of fights rather than going the WoW approach of having long, drawn out fights just for the sake of it.
I personally do not agree on slowing down combat to make it more “strategic”. Because of the threat of a quick death, really good plays are required to stay alive – this is more rewarding, and also entertaining to see. It’s similar to League of Legends in this sense: you can die in a blink of an eye in LoL, or you can pull out some amazing plays and not die, whilst killing everyone. (Doublelift’s Vayne is a good example of this.)
GW2’s fast paced style of combat is what makes it unique from other MMO PvPs.
This game needs to just have a different set of stats for Spvp, because right now it’s basically like we’re all in pure PVE gear playing pvp “arena”.
You’re either super glass cannon (like dps pve gear), or super tank.
snip
Um, where did I say to introduce new stats?
This game needs to just have a different set of stats for Spvp, because right now it’s basically like we’re all in pure PVE gear playing pvp “arena”.
Those are your words right? Even if you did not mean new stats having 2 different set of stats for PvP and PvE is essentially the same thing.
Well, we already sort of have a different set of stats, but that’s what I mean : a different set of stats, not different stats. Like a different arrangement. Instead of having pure Zerker for example we could have a toned down version with more survivability so it tapers off glass cannon stats and such.
Wait, what do you mean like Necro used to be?
Necro has always been spammy.
Anyway, I’m not sure Anet or the Devs is willing to do that. It seems like they’re dead set on slow and steady now…. although they were already going slow, now just slow-er lol.
I don’t the problem was “big changes being bad” so much as it was just “poor decisions” like power creep, and they probably just see “OMG THOSE BIG CHANGES RUIN GAME BAD BAD!!” and are now in super “shave” mode, they got the wrong message, which I think happens often with Anet.
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couldn’t disagree more. Auto-attacks are terrible design, and one of the key reasons why this game is so spammy and unappealing to watch.
The game needs more aimed abilities/skill shots if anything… too much stuff is auto-aimed.
well, you cant remove autoattack completely and this is one of the solutions how to make them less spammy, easier to avoid their main dmg and overall make them less valuable
well, there’s no technical reason they couldn’t turn off auto-attack completely as various other MMOs have done it, to great success, eg: Rift.
Other MMO’s still have filler spam skills though, even Rift.
Even if “auto attack” didn’t have an “auto cast” function anymore, that wouldn’t change anything.
It would if they also changed it to where the attack chain didn’t reset when it didn’t hit anything so it was just a combo of swings. For instance think of a giant hulking Berserker. He has a mighty hammer. He swings to the left with all his might, then to the right, then with that momentum lifts the hammer and slams down on the ground before him. Just because his left swing didn’t land on anything he wouldn’t just give up and keep swinging left.
Additionally; all duel-wield #1 combo chains need to change and add in off-hand effects. Like the second swing of 3 with Dual axes versus Axe+sword would be different and be swung with the offhand.
Yes but the chain doesn’t matter as much as it should.
And there are autos that don’t have ANY chain.
Remove the grinding aspects of GW2 things like Champtrains disappear.
To blame the mice in the maze, blame them maze designers.
That will just make the grind worse…..
You eliminate “grind” by offering more options, not reducing them…
Something is only a “grind” when it’s boring and you don’t enjoy it.
If I could “farm gold” doing Activity A, then go farm gold doing Activity B, then go farm gold doing Activity C, and so on, it’s not boring.
Just like leveling doing Activity A, leveling doing Activity B, then leveling doing Activity C….
It’s less boring than the only good way to do those things is with a single Activity.
Imagine if Anet made a little area like Labrynth or Gauntlet that just had non stop champs spawning and it was the ONLY place to farm gold/items/xp, everywhere else was nerfed to give almost NONE of those things…. imagine how fun that would be.
Now imagine if almost everything in game made you profit within 10% of each other. You could just do ANYthing you felt like and you would “make money”. There would still be efficient ways to make money if that was your 100% sole purpose yes, but it wouldn’t be so extreme..
Here’s a quick suggestion : Idle Bonuses for Dynamic Events, the longer a Dynamic Event is idle/ignored, the more of a bonus to rewards it gives, up to like 300% cap.
Do the same with champ mobs perhaps as well and nerf them slightly.
TTK = time to kill, for anyone who’s confused.
ArenaNet has expressed many times that they believe in resolution of fights rather than going the WoW approach of having long, drawn out fights just for the sake of it.
I personally do not agree on slowing down combat to make it more “strategic”. Because of the threat of a quick death, really good plays are required to stay alive – this is more rewarding, and also entertaining to see. It’s similar to League of Legends in this sense: you can die in a blink of an eye in LoL, or you can pull out some amazing plays and not die, whilst killing everyone. (Doublelift’s Vayne is a good example of this.)
GW2’s fast paced style of combat is what makes it unique from other MMO PvPs.
This game needs to just have a different set of stats for Spvp, because right now it’s basically like we’re all in pure PVE gear playing pvp “arena”.
You’re either super glass cannon (like dps pve gear), or super tank.
NO.
What Arenanet needs to do is redesign the stats, introducing new stats serves no purpose.
They already have a good set of stats why not improve it. I think someone should make a thread to talk about ways to redesign the current system of stats the benefits the whole game, but I digress (i love that word).
I think what Arenanet should do is to make Power the main damage stat, Vitality hp and toughness defense. Then make critical damge and conditional damage parallel to each other, so in your traits you can either choose to do extra damage on crit or apply a condition on crit similar to current sigils. Obviously, this would require critical chance to be reduced to because crits seem a little easy to get.
I havent thought through this enough, but the current system isn’t sufficient.
Um, where did I say to introduce new stats?
couldn’t disagree more. Auto-attacks are terrible design, and one of the key reasons why this game is so spammy and unappealing to watch.
The game needs more aimed abilities/skill shots if anything… too much stuff is auto-aimed.
well, you cant remove autoattack completely and this is one of the solutions how to make them less spammy, easier to avoid their main dmg and overall make them less valuable
well, there’s no technical reason they couldn’t turn off auto-attack completely as various other MMOs have done it, to great success, eg: Rift.
Other MMO’s still have filler spam skills though, even Rift.
Even if “auto attack” didn’t have an “auto cast” function anymore, that wouldn’t change anything.
From one passenger to another, I hope you will accept the fact they’ve eventually going to find a way to nerf the train. I don’t know or when, but it’s going to happen. It’s popular, probably not intended, and there some people actively against it.
They’ll nerf it into oblivion, tell us why we should be thankful, give us an “alternative,” and no one will farm champions anymore.
Yes, this is how Anet has done things, really stupid.
They just REPLACE the single farm options with another and repeat…..
So the farmers can farm? Eh?
Yes, why does everyone condemn this…..?
Farming is part of the game.
If most things in game actually gave you somewhat equal profit there wouldn’t really be “farming”, you’d just be playing the game and progressing towards your chosen goals.
People need to stop being afraid of money. Even IRL people are afraid of money. Money is just a tool to get the things you need/want.
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Also, conditions are not passive, they are dots. You still have to actively land them. The only difference is that they don’t do much damage up front.
This is true only in cases where it’s an ability that’s actually applying it, like Ranger Torch.
Give alternatives to the champ trains.
That simple.
And a squishy high APM ADC is just one small part of the game, not everything here should be that.
Glass cannons should not be the one and only kind of build that everyone runs in tournaments, yes, but the potential for a glass cannon to succeed and do its job should exist. The executioner role is necessary to prevent stagnation.
Slowing down combat by decreasing burst damage, condition burst damage, increasing health and making everyone naturally tankier, etc, means the glass cannon paradigm would be quashed. It would cease to exist. That would not be good for the overall health of the game from a competitive standpoint.
It wouldn’t be squashed, it should be tapered off a bit.
Stat wise I don’t think you should be allowed to go pure glass, it only really benefits 2 classes that don’t rely on stats for defense (Thief/Mesmer). Focusing on high dmg should be done through traits/runes/sigils/build.
Going glass cannon would be giving up defensive traits and utilities for offensive ones. If there was less non stop high dmg spam, the glass cannon would actually have the opportunity to make those high plays because they won’t die instantly from a sneeze, a light breeze rolling by from a nearby fight chunking half your health… everyone would be in more control of their survivability then.
This is coming from someone who :
1. HATES bunkers/the concept of bunkers, with a passion.
2. Someone who almost always plays glass cannons (AP mid in LoL for example)
3. Someone who played mesmer/thief the most during beta/release (silly how survivable they are as pure glass compared to others)
And even AP’s and ADC’s will give up PURE dmg for some survivability item/s.
To make this clear : I don’t want to KILL off glass cannons.
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Forsaker is right about the power creep. Eventually any MMORPG will be hit by power creep. I was just surprised and very sad that this game was so hard with massive power creep, which pretty much got us into this horrible spam spam meta. The game is just 14 months from launch and we have a massive power creep. There has been way too much buffing (even +50% or double there and there), instead of nerfing. A game developer must have a very good self-discipline (or strict senior mentor) to avoid power creep as obviously the player base is always screaming for buffs, rarely for nerfs. Now the only way to fix this is actually lot of smartly targeted nerfs. Players will moan about it, some threatening to quit the game, but in the long run it will be better for the game.
Maybe people misunderstood my post about making very high attack skills telegraphed and slow. I do not want to greatly increase the total time to kill (TTK), but this would really benefit from having attacks more clearly telegraphed (yes, I also mean Asuras). I can sometimes see even the high ranked player dodge/evade spam, dodges which are probably random. Such more or less random hit or miss, isn’t what I would want from a game.
Isn’t it logical that the highest damage skills should be slow and easy to avoid? While very fast attacks should do low damage?
The game has always had high spammy dmg, they just made it worse and more obvious.
Except for maybe a few cases where it was better, like when Ele’s were all about the combo’s.
TTK = time to kill, for anyone who’s confused.
ArenaNet has expressed many times that they believe in resolution of fights rather than going the WoW approach of having long, drawn out fights just for the sake of it.
I personally do not agree on slowing down combat to make it more “strategic”. Because of the threat of a quick death, really good plays are required to stay alive – this is more rewarding, and also entertaining to see. It’s similar to League of Legends in this sense: you can die in a blink of an eye in LoL, or you can pull out some amazing plays and not die, whilst killing everyone. (Doublelift’s Vayne is a good example of this.)
GW2’s fast paced style of combat is what makes it unique from other MMO PvPs.
LoL is a completely different game.
It is not dominion, and there is risk involved nearly every time you want to make something happen.
And a squishy high APM ADC is just one small part of the game, not everything here should be that.
And I disagree completely that it makes this game unique from other MMO’s… Nearly EVERY MMO i’ve played, the pvp TTK is extremely small. I’ve been waiting year after year for an MMO that has a reasonable TTK.
Just because WoW took it to the extreme doesn’t mean the concept is flawed.
This game needs to just have a different set of stats for Spvp, because right now it’s basically like we’re all in pure PVE gear playing pvp “arena”.
You’re either super glass cannon (like dps pve gear), or super tank.
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Bunkers are another thing that need to be squashed, somewhat.
Something like, nerf the selfish effectiveness of support skills, and buff the altruistic effectiveness of support skills at the same time.
Take warrior shout healing for example, nerf the self heal by like 15-20%, buff the outgoing heal by like 40%.
It’s probably not going to be such a simple change now that the game is a year in and rooted in its ways already… but yeah.
This is what I’d probably like to see instead :
Bunker = More dmg, less self sustain/tankiness, more altruistic healing/support. They become a bit squishier but gain a bit more dmg and a lot more support for others.
Glass Cannons = 90% dmg, 10% survivability, change it to something like 80% dmg, 20% survivability, or something like that to start.
Do that with just the stat gear, I think if stat gear can be homogenized more (despite being “less options”) then they could instead increase the options in Traits/Sigils/Runes etc instead, in a way other than stats. I don’t think the stats should necessarily determine what you are/do, but the traits/build should.
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Knote, I refuse to have a discussion in hyperbole. Give specifics about a certain thief build you’re having trouble with.
I’ve already agreed that there are plenty of things that arn’t well telegraphed that should be. So I can only assume you’re having trouble with some backstab build.
No, I’m not. Again you’re completely missing the point, it’s not a hyperbole because I’m not talking about balance, or specifically backstabs.
I’m about damage/attacks in general, part of it is the telegraphing.
YES!! This is exactly what I’ve been saying.
Making EVERY auto attack in the game a 3 part chain with a large portion of the dmg (or “reward”) placed on the third attack such as guardian hammer, it would add a lot of “risk” to high dmg auto attacks, it forces you to COMMIT to get that dmg off, instead of spamming high NO-RISK dmg nonstop with no punishment for it.
And if you ever aren’t able to commit to a full chain auto, then you do small filler dmg (and maybe some utility) from the first 2 parts, which fills it’s role.
Take Ranger Shortbow for example, it could be :
Chain 1 – Small dmg and applies weakness (or vuln, or cripple, or 1 second poison, etc)
Chain 2 – Small dmg, same thing
Chain 3 – 1.5 second channel, fires 4 moderate dmg rapid shots that apply 5s bleeding.
It would also make it much more interesting/satisfying to use, that’s for sure.
And this may not be very popular, but having more short cast time/channels that immobilize you for high benefit would be nice. Imagine more skills that are like bit sized versions of Killshot. It’s nice to be zipping around constantly and all, but sitting still for 1.5 seconds to get off a really nice hit once in a while in between is super satisfying IMO.
I’m taking a lot of this “satisfying” experience from Dragon Nest TBH. The combat there is insanely satisfying lol, this game could borrow a few things from it.
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If you ever watch someone play LoL or DotA and see them constantly pacing back n forth, it’s kind of the same thing.
Well there are many things in this game that are not well telegraphed, but the best backstab builds are actually very well balanced. So this made many here raise an eyebrow.
If everyone only had 2 skills, an auto that did 10 dmg, and a long cooldown skill that instantly did 80 dmg with no way to see it coming and was completely instant, while giving everyone only 100 health.
That would be balanced, but it probably wouldn’t be fun. It takes almost no thought in order to 100-0 someone in this game completely upfront and sometimes almost impossible to even really see coming. This isn’t about “balance”.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
My point is that that would effectively lower damage. Which would be a bad idea, because tankiness/regen in general is already extremely powerful.
They’re both a problem.
Okay, fair enough. Maybe dps is too strong and tankiness is too strong at the same time.
We could equalize things—for example, remove both crit damage and healing power as stats. That would be essentially what you’re looking for, I think. Less damage, less healing. You can still have bunkers and glass cannons, but the difference between them is smaller.
But I can’t really agree with that option either. I think the diversity is pretty cool actually, and I definitely don’t think a pre-alpha level change should be implemented over a year after release.
Well, it’s like there’s either super high dmg, or super high tank builds, with, I guess warriors in between having a large portion of both. I think the extremes should just be tapered off.
I had an idea I posted in the general forums about making everyone DPS, and I was going to post it here, though it is probably too much of a rework too happen.
The idea is that everyone will have a fixed amount of dmg from gear/stats. Essentially everyone would either be something like high Condi/Prec, and high Power/Prec/CritD, so like Zerker/Rabid, but maybe 75% of that. So essentially everyone would be capped to like like Knight’s stats dmg levels.
Then, with everyone being “dps” you get to choose your secondary stats, which could be Healing, Tough, Vit, etc, or even Boon/Cond duration. It would work better if there was like, support or control stats that actually MODIFIED your skills like in GW1. But you would basically be choosing your secondary role besides “damage”, to specialize in with gear, which could also split up tanky stats and healing power so you can’t be beefy as well as “sustainy”.
TBH though, it would probably be easier to to just do 2 things : remove any PURE dmg stat sets like zerker gear, then nerf “support” to be a bit nerfed on yourself, and buffed for others like Healing Breath. That would eliminate the super glass cannon and bunkers (somewhat).
I’m the LAST person who would see variety and build options be REDUCED, trust me. But I don’t think the build variety should really be focused on the really limited stats available for gear. I think it should be 90% based on traits/skills/runes/sigils, that’s where the interesting build choices lie, I would prefer having way more options in this area than we do now actually, on top of the stat adjustments.
You could still focus on a high end dps build just through stats/runes TBH, so it’s not like everyone would be homogenized to being the same exact offense/defense levels.
Look at it this way, there’s a reason MMO’s with pvp have seperate gear for pve and pvp, pvp gear is usually always loaded with extra defenses while giving up some damage in order to make the TTK more reasonable, (this has nothing to do with the massive HP direction WoW went with recently). But with people in full zerker gear, it’s like people walking into pvp with full PVE gear and doing insane dmg while being insanely squishy, which then is only really used on certain classes that don’t rely on stats to stay alive, notice how Thief/Mesmer get away with glass cannon so easily?
Just like when Rogues in WoW would dominate when the TTK was low during low resil periods.
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I agree with you for the most part; however, complexity gaps do create imbalance at casual levels. The bigger the gap, the larger the imbalance. I think the complexity gap is a bit too large right now, which is turning away newer/casual players.
Small tweaks to lower the complexity gap would not hurt good players and would really help people getting started.
Yeah a narrower complexity gap is good but it’s not like it’s obscenely out of whack right now compared to other games (WoW). The problem with messing with the
complexity gap is you have to figure out how to increase the skill cap of build/profession without nerfing it’s maximum potential, which would probably require massive class restructuring.Right now I’d say it’s best to balance builds according to their maximum play potential. After the MASSIVE amount of problems with the PvP system have been cleaned up then the developers can focus on tweaking profession/build skill caps.
EDIT: grammar
I don’t know. How about longer cooldowns for missed burst skills? Zero change to build potential, tons of opportunity to get outplayed.
I’m not really talking about skill caps—it’s the floors that I’m worried about. IMO skill cap for most builds is already pretty high. Simple builds take a lot of skill to use really well. It’s just that they don’t take much skill to use pretty well. For the first couple hundred hours someone spends in GW2 PvP, there are a few simple builds that will seem grossly overpowered, just because they’re easy.
That does nothing to stop the massive amounts of spammable dmg. They just need to be given risk and require more skill to pull off.
Take auto’s for an example, give ALL autos a 3 attack skill chain, put a lot of the power on the third attack so you have to commit to do dmg with it, otherwise it will be very soft filler. Pretty simple change that changes it quite a bit.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
My point is that that would effectively lower damage. Which would be a bad idea, because tankiness/regen in general is already extremely powerful.
They’re both a problem.
Well, hotjoin isn’t about winning.
So do w/e you find fun lol.
I only do cheese/gimmick builds for fun and mess around.
Mesmer is literally the most survivable class in melee range. If you are struggling to stay above 90% on a Mesmer you won’t be able to do it on any class.
Please enlighten me, mr. pro, maybe record a dungeon run where you use for example sword+focus in berseker gear and can stay above 90% health at least 70% of the time in combat.
I use ruby orbs, because it fits my playstyle, i won’t be bothered to use necessary utilites and skills to keep myself above 90% just so i can have that 10% bonus if it doesn’t fit my preffered playstyle.
If you can keep yourself above 90% that doesn’t mean you’re doing more damage overall then other mesmer below 90%.You’re quite condescending. But i’ll be nice and answer you politely instead of engaging in your lame polemic.
1. Where is this 70% number from? Scholar runes are better if you are there for 24% of the time. That’s not too crazy. So if you’re going to use some number, why not use the real one?
2. Special utilities? You have 2 dodges, vigor on crit, Distortion, and Blurred Frenzy. This is part of every mesmer sword build. If your “playstyle” doesn’t include using these things optimally, your playstyle needs to change.
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GuFc1D-jTU
K thx bye
Well there is a difference between survivable and “staying above 90% health”.
I still think ruby is better for mesmer because phantasms don’t get the 10% bonus.
And that video showed the mesmer dipping below 90% often, invulns don’t sustain your health lol.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
What exactly is the point of dodgejumping? Do you even move further? I do it all the time when I’m screwing around, but I would never try to dodge in tPvP with a dodgejump, lol…
Well dodging is basically like running while out of combat w/swiftness.
So in combat, you can’t jump as far because of your slower move speed (you can see this if you get in combat during a jumping puzzle, huge PITA), jump dodging lets you jump at the optimal distance.
Jump dodging even ensures the maximum jump distance potential even while out of combat, so during a jumping puzzle jump dodge can help cover distances that are harder to reach with just normal jumping. Although you can reach the same distances with normal jumping as a jump dodge, but you have to learn how far you can run off an edge before needing to jump which can be equally trick to learn.
Short Version : Jump Dodging lets you jump the furthest possible while in combat than you could otherwise.
Can’t imagine there are any spots in Spvp where it’s really THAT rewarding to do so to justify the risk in a tournament, even if you do have a 95%+ success rate.
He’s not talking about burst.
He’s talking about the overall extremely low TTK. It is a huge problem IMO.
It’s not as simple as “nerf everyone’s dmg” either.
Well, that was the problem with fighting a phantasm mesmer 1 on 1. Looking at some videos, you can see how the mesmer managed to put a big amount of pressure of the enemy and made him unable to counterpressure. The enemy had to chain his defensive abilities while the mesmer was just sitting back, healing the few damage received.
We are talking about months ago, but IMHO many remember them.
Mesmer was probably my most played class in beta up til now, and I did a TON of cheese with them lol, I remember that clearly. Phantasm cheese was always hilarious.
Hell, there WAS no dmg to heal, just run away or sit in stealth and spam tanky phantasms on cooldown lol.
Although shatter builds aren’t as bad as that, even they can be guilty. You just pop up next to someone and INSTANTLY spawn and shatter clones and do massive aoe burst in the blink of an eye.
Trying to avoid that versus just stealthing up to someone and hitting mirror/wrack really quick is still pretty skewed with the skill ratio.
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I agree that a high percentage of the skill in GW2 is based around avoiding damage. Another way of saying that is everyone has access to at least two dodges, and if you mess those up, of course you should lose to someone who dodged well.
It’s also true that it’s generally not too hard to land damaging skills. Exceptions would be engineer, ele, and guardian. I think it’s all right that most professions don’t revolve around skillshots.
If they did, damage output would invariably go way down. The game already has a lot of active defense, so bunkers would receive huge nerfs and dps would receive huge buffs to compensate for less damage landing. And then the meta would be awful, because landing that one great skillshot would literally always win the fight for you.
I would personally like to see more risk/skill required for damage, and getting kills on people in general, with less focus on downed state (not eliminating it completely). Then nerfing/tuning support in a way that’s less selfish and more altruistic to kill bunkering and instead create true “support”, or atleast try to. For example, when shout warrior or staff ele got buffed to “buff support”, all it really does is buff “bunker” because why support others when you could just support yourself + tank it up and be unkillable.
In the end with TTK being slightly less ridiculous (and inconsistent, i.e. either you bunk or you glass cannon), and just requiring more skill/teamwork again in general. That would be my ideal game here.
“And then the meta would be awful, because landing that one great skillshot would literally always win the fight for you. "
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
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Since when does any Thief run P/P? Just wondering, lol.
Lol, nice catch.
But hey, even that applies. Back in beta when all you saw were venom P/P unload spammers 100-0’ing people. Not that it wasn’t that hard to counter, but still faceroll. =p
I’m going to try and be constructive with this post.
People will look at this quote and think it’s ridiculous, but it’s actually true. But that is also part of the problem.
The “burden of skill” is placed almost entirely on the defender in this game, and not on the offender.
Just like you have to skillfully react and deal with the spirit ranger’s passive procs, you also have very skillfully defend against damage in general.
Just watch Helseth play his mesmer for a few minutes and you can see this. For example, a thief pops out of nowhere and immediately begins unloading and drops him down to low health and he has to pop invulns and blinks at the right times, at lightning fast speeds just to SURVIVE the thief smashing his face on his keyboard.
After that he turns around and nearly 100-0’s someone with a greatsword combo from 1200 range away by pressing 3 buttons.
It’s like it takes like 5% skill to kill someone, and 95% skill to just survive the dmg coming at you. Maybe that’s balanced and works at high skill levels, but that wonky ratio isn’t that fun to play, especially for casuals.
It’s like League of Legends during the “bruiser meta” where a 5 bruiser team could completely faceroll their way to victory, while the other team had to have crazy skill/teamwork just to beat them. (Which coordinated Support heavy/kite teams could beat no problem).
That’s all I have to say, discuss.
They are the same as traits that proc things passively.
Such as Dhuumfire-esque traits.
They’re not the only guilty one, doesn’t make them any less guilty.
Nobody is “guilty”. These are the traits and classes that the game consists of. Everyone is free to use any one of them. But some people decide that only certain builds and professions are “real”…the ones they enjoy playing that require the type of skills they find enjoyable.
I didn’t say anyone is guilty of using them. I meant the AI and passive traits are guilty.
They are the same as traits that proc things passively.
Such as Dhuumfire-esque traits.
They’re not the only guilty one, doesn’t make them any less guilty.
The FT is a very solid kit. It may not maximize damage, but it offers good damage and solidifies that with some utility. How it compares to everything else is ultimately irrelevant to this thread.
Except it’s not. It’s completely inferior. Up to you if you want to use it, but that doesn’t change that fact.
stop complaining. pvp is booming. it is the best part of the game.
if you dont like pvp, stay in pve or just quit.
Go dev’s! You’re all doing a great job.
troll
i’m dead serious. you people just need to adapt to the changes. pvp has a lot to offer. you can play casual or competitive. kids and adults can enjoy and have fun. do you see my point? ^^,
I agree.
I’ve been spending HOURS just playing with 1000’s of new builds because of the tooltip updates.
I never figured out how ANY traits worked beforehand during release/beta on my own. So now I finally know how everything works and it’s AMAZING.
The game is so fresh and alive now, 1000’s and 1000’s of builds!
Wait… nevermind I was playing Path of Exile. =D
1000’s of builds!
I actually posted this exact suggestion before lol.
It’s a good idea IMO.
Y i agree theres no pvp mmo out there…….yet.You know a lot mmo are coming soon, we will see.If GW2 had a solid pvp i wouldnt bother checking and spending money in other games but as i said, it doesnt, and it would take a long time to have even if it started tomorrow(which it wont)
JPeters stated yesterday in ESL tourn chat that they want to release the next balance patch in 12th dec…They want means that they may not make it.And its a balance patch, pvp besides balance takes nothing.
Seriously, you so dont care about pvp at all..and you cant prove the opposite now, noone believes you
Lmao, they’re really going to wait that long again to do a tiny balance patch?
It should be bi-weekly. SMH
I seriously want a new MMO to come out that’s good. =[
I’m hoping Wildstar is decent.
The current “meta” which is followed by dungeon speed clearing guilds is
Scholar Runes>Ruby Orbs
Ruby orbs being the poor mans choice. So Strength runes are out of the question since speed clearing guilds keep a constant stack of might during fights.
I actually switched scholar runes for ruby orbs for my mesmer.
I get quite a lot of power from ruby orbs as well + a lot of precision and 12% of critical damage, that’s a lot. I think it’s more usefull then scholar’s +10% damage while above 90% health, because how often are you above 90% while in combat? I guess it depends on your build and playstyle, but being berseker (who usually will use such runes) your health will mostly stay about 40%-80%, unless again, you’re staying in the back with your greatsword.
At least that’s my experience so far.
Ruby is better for mesmer just because phantasms don’t benefit from the 10% bonus dmg.
It’s just the lack of options that makes it boring.
Viable for PvE? Well, there are Flamethrower Engineers running around in Celestial gear that are doing “fine”, so I don’t see how your build shouldn’t do “fine”.
Good? No, Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit will give you between 20-50% more damage (properly even more if you run condition damage gear with a Flamethrower) and more support/survivability (Vulnerability, Immobilize/Cripple/Freeze, etc.).thats simply way exaggerated, you never do 20%-50% more dmg with grenades.
Its a statement some people come up with because they don’t like the FT kit or whatever, i don’t know how you come to this numbers. So tell me, I would really like to see it!A FT/EG 0/25/0/20/25 build comes close to Grenades. On top of that the only considerable support with grenades is vulnerability, its laughable calling ‘cripple’ support, sry. FT/EG has multiple condition cleans, weakness, knockdowns etc. imho far better support with nearly comparable dmg.
Not to mention the super boring playstyle of Grenades, but thats another story.
@OP: HGH with juggernaut is kind of might overdose imho, you can stack easily 25 might with juggernaut and firefield blasts. One point of DesertRose is valid: Condition dmg doesn’t bring much to the table with a FT/EG build.
That’s not an exaggeration.
Nades/Bombs are really that much better than flamethrower.
More dmg, and kiting capabilities. Go flamethrower if you enjoy it, but it will be a lot less dmg, Anet needs to just buff it already, doens’t make sense for the safer options to do more dmg.
You must not have played World of Warcraft
Except you can completely customize your UI in wow, and that one is garbage…. What a terrible example lol.
If you have an issue with a warrior make one and stop QQing about them. Eventually, ARenanet will get the message that shaving around a bald spot doesn’t make the spot go away or painting it doesn’t.
If you are an elementalist, why play it, play warrior, less work and easy kills.
I’d rather not play that play something boring as hell.
It’d be like if all the skill based and rewarding champs/heroes in LoL/DotA were nerfed to oblivion and only the faceroll stuff was good. Ugh.
I would like a rocket launcher kit just for the fact that it could have unique aiming. Like aiming it like you would in an actual FPS. Imagine standing on a keep trying to snipe people with rockets >2000 range away.
I love the “walking siege equipment” feel to Engy’s.
They shouldn’t have stats to begin with IMO.
Runes are the type of horizontal progression this game should’ve focused on.
What’s more fun than customizing different procs to compliment your build? Like a diablo-clone.
It will never happen. Because we don’t get exspantions, we get “living story”.
RuneScape has beening effectively doing this LS thing for 12 years, they’ve pumped out expansion-worthy content faster than most games.
Yeah but runescape is runescape. aint hard to add content to an easy engine.
Oh cmon, don’t pretend it’s hard to add a chore list such as “kill 10 rabbits”, which is funny since people always mocked other MMO’s for that.
There’s none of those quests in RuneScape. The quests in that game are some of the best I’ve seen in all games, let alone MMOs. The kill 10 rabbits part is grinding for skills, which we’ve replaced with get 10k Chattering Skulls for the recipe of a skin.
I was talking about GW2’s “Living Story” lol.
You could argue female are stronger because they also have to carry around giant mammal pillows at the same time.
If they carried swords on their shoulders they would probably kill their back.
The entire game is about playing with your friends.
I busted out laughing.
I’ve never seen an MMO punish you for wanting to play with friends/guildies more than this one.