(edited by KrHome.1920)
Hammer rev is he’s running in a team or zerg. Try running hammer solo and see how far it gets you vs using a staff
.
If you are running a burst build (like i do), hammer is the superior option. Staff is a liability if you are squishy, because your damage (which forces the opponent into defense) is your sustain. On staff you have your 2 sec. block and then you are dead. No counterpressure while evading (like Sword 3), no counterpressure while kiting (like Sword 2).
With hammer
-you can keep up pressure with skill 1+2 (+Riposting Shadows),
-you have a 1 1/4 sec. evade + massive aoe dmg. (8 sec. cooldown!)
-projectile block is often usefull while kiting with Reposting Shadows
-skill 5 will never hit anyone, but it’s good for creating a nice 2 sec. area of denial
And since we are talking about WvW:
Try to clear a camp with Hammer+Sword/X and then try it with Staff+Sword/X! ;-)
I’m still allowed to demand nerfs for a class that is too strong. Doesn’t really matter if there are 2 other classes who are even “more too strong” in your opinion.
OP = too strong= nerf justified.But if you think that a reaper or scrapper nerf is more urgent, create an own thread – I don’t know why I have to repeat myself 1000 times
Well if that is your logic, rev needs a buff because it is too weak against reapers and chronophansma shatters.
If you want to talk about thieves and warriors needing a buff to be able to compete with rev pls make a corresponding thread!
Not if it hits harder than any other dps class with skills that have only 4sec cd (sword 2) or that combine cc + evade + high damage all in one (staff 5).
The more you say the more I sense a l2p issue here.
Let’s talk about numbers:
Precision strike deals about 4K dmg on a light amored target if all 3 projectiles hit in sPvP on the Paladin/Retribution Meta. 4K! Are you kidding me? That’s nothing!
A thief shadowshot deals about the same amount of dmg. and is a gab closer. I’ve fought thieves who had such a good timing that they wrecked me just by using headshot, shadowshot, autoattacks and dash. These thieves are rare but they show what the class is capable of.
SotM hits hard on squishy opponentes – if it hits. Most of the time it doesn’t.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
Let’s stop with the bs and dissembling. Revenants are the top stacked class in competitve play when its allowed. They are too good. No one is saying the class is godlike or needs to be burned to the ground just that further nerfs are needed. Lets stop arguing straw men. The proof is how popular they are among better players. No one has come close to refuting that because it can’t be refuted. Good players don’t play what’s weak. They play whats the strongest.
The revs were carried by the eles (tempests) in the final. Eles are able to completely negate the revs weaknesses (poor heal, no condi removal). This makes it pretty easy for a rev to perform well. I can see that everytime in Solo Q when I have a decent ele in my team who supports me on mid. Then it’s a walk in the park.
Without the help of an ele rev is pretty average because it has multiple counters. Either condi overload him or just wait for him to pop glint heal, do nothing for 3 seconds, then burst him down.
So if you continue to nerf rev it will be trash tier for solo Q ers and average teamed up with an ele. Good job!
The only way to solve this issue is to redesign the class which means give it more condi clear and better heals (and bugfixes!!!) while toning other things down
- alternatively: NERF ELE xD.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
1) I started 2 days ago (I am 100% Solo Q ing)
2) Ruby Tier 1 (since last night)
3) Win rate: 90% in Amber, 100% in Emerald, 70% in Sapphire
4) I stopped after reaching Ruby. Until that point I rushed through the Divisions 1, 2 and 3 in 2 evenings (~8 hours)
5) 4 losses in a row in Sapphire Tier 4, but then 3 wins brought me to Tier 5
6) Won’t continue since Ruby is fine for me
Can’t complain about the new matchmaking.
You should replace Chilled to the Bone by Plague – just in case! :-)
They don’t mention aword auto attack. They say “sword damage in some areas”.
“Singling out” sounds like Unrelenting Assaults mechanic will possibly change from randomly attack everything in range to a single target attack, which would be nice against mesmers, rangers and minion masters where the skill is almost useless.
Disagree. This statement.. “adjust the weapon’s abilities so that it’s less focused on autoattacking”… does strongly suggest that sword AA is being “looked at”.
Not that I wouldn’t mind your interpretation… don’t get me wrong.
You are right. I didn’t recognize the autoattacking part. So hopefully this auto attack nerf will result in a precision strike and unrelenting assault buff and in an unrelenting assault mechanics rework.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
They don’t mention aword auto attack. They say “sword damage in some areas”.
“Singling out” sounds like Unrelenting Assaults mechanic will possibly change from randomly attack everything in range to a single target attack, which would be nice against mesmers, rangers and minion masters where the skill is almost useless.
i just cant do it, they out sustain me no matter what i do then trololololololol with unrelenting assault the most lazy pathetic salt causing op skill i have ever seen this needs to change but i know it never will… the devs need a carrot to bait people to buy hot i guess
i do not hit them during glint heal if i can help it but even then they heal to full out of nowhere have 2 goes of crystal hibernation teleports and boons up the behind… with cc..
this is with a tank/power reaper
i had a go of condi and find it dies way too easy with horrific lf generation as usual.
im using axe/wh- gs if i don’t take axe people just stay out of range since everyone seems to have some viable ranged option these days and gs because why not?
would dagger/wh- staff really make that big of a difference?
Killing Shiro/Glint Power Revs is a walk in the park with the following build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhFakjG6sxKbw2G4vxCugFfF7ihRquQb4ZBd1CALAA-TJBFABCcKAEvMQJ7PAwTAAA
He uses Shield Block?
>Wh4 interrupt
He tries to disengage?
>Axe2 > RS2 > RS5 >RS4
Glint Heal?
>stop attacking for 2 seconds and cast gravedigger, so that it hits immediately after his 3 sec dmg to heal conversion ends
When entering RS, the first skill you should use is RS3 for stability – everytime!
Use GS4+RS4+RS2 and RS5+RS4+RS2 combos as often as possible.
Use signet might to weakness conversion as often as possible (Unrelenting Assault grants him might – use that for your advantage!).
You have incredible LF generation outside of RS and incredible Heal + LF Generation when autoattacking in RS. You can outsustain him very easy. Chill of Death proc will hit hard because of his boons. High chill uptime will mess up his rotation.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
I don’t get your point. Do you think your class was crap for almost 3 years until 0623, because you couldn’t kill well played thieves?
And yes there are necro builds who don’t care about eating 3 oder 4 of your shatters while fighting someone else. They probably can’t kill you because of your mobility, but in a 1vs1 you will never force them to leave the point.
(Yes it’s a simple signet meta variation)
playstyle:
-build up lifeforce using warhorn 5 + dagger 1
-> go into shroud and use
3 (stability)
5 (massive damage + stun + chill field)
4 (more massive damage + chill)
2 (more massive damage + frost aura)
1 (if the damage still wasn’t enough)
Can’t remember that I lost just one single 1 vs 1 with that build. It also seems to be even better vs. D/D eles than the standard signet necro. Power Lock mesmers don’t hardcounter you anymore because of RS3 stability.
I like the reaper.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
I just want to note that the lf seems to scale with your opponents meaning the full combo on 3 opponents gives 15% lf. According to the wiki the whole combo is 3 seconds long.
Now compare this to the dagger auto which gives 8% lf (doesnt scale with the numbers of opponents) per combo with a casttime of 2.1.
So i would say in aoe scenarios GS auto actually gives more lf then the dagger auto…
In sPvP it is pretty much impossible to complete a GS autoattack combo. It is too slow.
You can generate a lot of lifeforce running Reaper/Spite/X and stacking might while traited Chilling Victory and Blighter’s Boon.
But you need to hit someone with the ultra slow GS.^^ And that’s the problem.
Running Dagger/Warhorn + Staff with these two traits is insane. You can stay in RS for 80% of the match.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
If you upgraded to Windows 10 you can use its game recording feature:
Windows Key + G while playing a game
It has just basic functionality but it is not completely useless.
Patchnotes June 23, 2015:
Spite – Master:
Chill of Death: Cast the focus skill Spinal Shivers when attacking a foe below 50% health. This trait now benefits from the recharge bonus of Spiteful Talisman.
Your build is just another variation of the standard power necro build that has been played for years now. Nothing new here…
(edited by KrHome.1920)
I’ve been using this p/p in WvW quite a bit since the patch: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVlsMh2mYZTwvJw+EHyEFPHahbwXGHaao3zpIAA-TlyCABAcIEI/ECE++DpovBLlG3o+TiKBp4IEklyspfQAkCAipRA-w
Damage is not that high, but I’ve been having fun with it. Obviously some personal tweaks can be made.
p/p might seem an odd choice compared to p/d, but the use of carrion gear allows me to put out semi-ok direct damage with unload, which also helps proc the on-crit sigils with lower precision. Plus I have an easy ranged interrupt to proc more torment and stop heals or whatnot. BP is useful for the things it’s useful for.
Offhand dagger I don’t think is as necessary because the dagger toss doesn’t add anything, and CnD isn’t really necessary due to all the stealth the build already has. The only thing it really adds is additional torment from the #3, but yeah.
Sinister (or if you can’t afford: Rampager’s) gear would be perfect for that build. Even with no defensive stats you are almost unkillable and with sinister/rampage you would deal much more damage.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
edit: Screenshots removed
Worked! Thank you Ray!
(edited by KrHome.1920)
Still a crap weapon. If it had at least 900 range I probably could get over the fact that it does not cleave and the damage is low.
With 1200 range and the current stats it would be a good weapon in certain situations. Then it would have a nice synergy with the new Focus.
LOL, that is not a telegraph, sure at the start of a 1v1 duel that is the case, in actual game of PvP, with teamfights, people streaming in and out of fights, etc all you know is that any one of the numerous times in at most the next 30 secs that a necro gets 3 or more condies on them, they may be transferred back to you.
The biggest telegraph is the Plague Signet symbol showing you, that condi-bombing this guy might be a bad idea.
The Plague Signet trait has a high 30 second cooldown. That shouldn’t be a problem. And if a necro equips all the possible transfer stuff, he has ether no sustain at all and is a perfect prime target or is forced to play passive and waiting for conditions applied to him.
People just aren’t used to it and cry for nerfs now. L2P!
(edited by KrHome.1920)
People eating their OWN 10 stack of Burning but anyway lets forget that and put the blame on Necro.
That happened to me today. :-)
I played a full glass power Necro with tons of condi transfers (Dagger4, Staff4, Plague Signet, Curses Traits) and lots of people told me my condi necro build was to strong.
This is like cherry picking. Everyone is running condi atm because you can melt most builds with it. And when they meet someone who transfers all that stuff back, they say it’s op.
So when you go for condi: Avoid necros or take some condi removals with you!
…not to mention that Merciful Ambush is minor now! You can avoid a teammate getting stomped by just starting to revive him. Very helpful in some situations.
That’s also situational. It’s great to be able to avoid the stomp through granting stealth, but you’ll most likely get cleaved and/or AoE’d right after the opponent misses his stomp. It would probably best to interrupt or stun the stomper instead, trying to get his attention off of the fallen.
Yes if you play the thief for his traditional +1 role, then 66006 is better because it means more damage = faster kill. If you enter a 1vs1 with your ally already in downstate, then trying to rez him instead of finishing the opponent will kill both of you.
the meta will be D/P 66006 though
Btw! Why 6/6/0/0/6 instead of SA? I mean that would mean we’d have 0 access to condi removal (aside the healing skill and shadow step on relative big cooldowns)
…not to mention that Merciful Ambush is minor now! You can avoid a teammate getting stomped by just starting to revive him. Very helpful in some situations.
Yes actally I go spite, blood magic soul reaping power necro. No curses and no transfers so CC is a nerf for me.
And what would you call the massive heal options (you heal even when you’re in Shroud) you get from Bloodmagic?
Negligible?
Blowing one of your stunbreaks to transfer 4 seconds of vulnerability and whatever random kitten condition they decide to add to it. Brilliant strategy.
Who said that?
The new Signet will be a very useful condition mangement tool, a stunbreak and even party support at a 30 second cooldown.
I don’t care about 10 stack vulnerability for 4 (FOUR!) seconds. No idea why people get mad for that. When traiting into curses I get 5 seconds of weakness every 10 seconds and aoe weakness everytime I go into DS.
In addition I can now transfer and corrupt conditions every few seconds (Plague Signet, Staff 4, Corrupt Boon, Plague Sending etc.). Every enemy that puts a condition on me, will bitterly regret it immediately.
You can build a necro, that is basicly not just immune to conditions but can even transfer them back and you complain about 4 seconds vulnerability.
Time to take Plague Signet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet
into consideration for any build that uses curruptions and Master of Corruption. The cooldown of the signet will be reduced to 30 seconds. So you can heal yourself (and apply conditions to you), Corrupt Boon (and apply conditions to you) and send all that stuff immediately to your opponent.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
Acro sucks bad now. Its effect is nerfed from 100 to 50% in general and raised to 100% again with Acrobatics. So with perma vigor (what is pretty hard to get btw.) now you have the same amount of endurance like before the patch with any class using vigor.
That makes no sense at all. I would even say, that with the endurance created by the dagger autoattack a D/X stealth thief will have about the same number of dodges as an acro thief PLUS stealth.
What were they thinking?
Meaning:
- Vigor right now: 2x the endurance gain (100%)- Untraited vigor with the changes: 1,5x the endurance gain (100% then, in comparison to now 50%)
- Traited vigor with the changes: 1,75x the endurance gain (150% then, in comparison to now 75%)
Hope you get what i mean
Got it. And I hope they don’t do it that way! Then it would be even worse.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
I have a feeling, that Condi Necros now will be meta for us.
No idea what’s going on in PvE, but in WvW/PvP Spite+Curses+Soul Reaping sounds like a lot of fun.
The new Curses traitline with
Plague Sending
Path of Corruption / Master of Corruption
Weakening Shroud
is a perfect addition to the existing power dagger/x + staff meta. Staff gets a huge buff with the new baseline changes and the Soul Marks trait.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
And here’s my take on it, which I believe to be a whole lot better:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVl0MpyplOx7J0PNRLhw9wZB96t2PCcA-TlCEAB+s/ABPAhEV/ZLlgMp8pN9NAcECe4QAklSI3OBABAQAuZb2m3MwRP6RP6RPa38m38m38mlCYgpWA-winI’d like you people to criticize my take on it. I’ve had a lot of fun and was murdering people in 1v3-4 scenarios quite easily.
I tried your build in WvW today and I come to the conclusion, that in 1vs1 situations 60206 is superior to your 60602 build – especially when you fight other skilled thieves, no matter what build they play! The traited steal is too strong to be compensated by the sustain from going deep into Shadow Arts.
Alot of fights (mostly picks when roaming) are over by simply running up and shadow shooting dem butts off, followed by a timed Headshot and fight is over.
Not dead? Powder Leap + steal backstab or whatever you see fit.
D/P is just very straight forward.
Where do you roam? I roam in EU Tier 1 and I don’t face zerkers that often and if it’s a zerker, then it’s ether a mediguard or a powernecro. I play powernecro by myself to “farm” D/P thieves in WvW. It’s ridiciously easy. I don’t even need my utilities!
As a D/P Thief you can engage everybody and reset fights, true! But you can kill only non-guard/non-necro zerkers.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
Your build is a modification of the panic strike conquest meta. Your steal becomes weaker but your survivability becomes better. A matter of preference…
It’s a good build for solo roaming where you dont need party support like boon sharing or stomp interrupts with steal. Plus you deal more damage like with the WvW 06620 Meta.
After the core specialisation update 60606 will be a great build for roaming and you currently play a build wich comes pretty close to that.
a good S/D would have a hard time losing to necromancers due to slow casting and slow auto attacks, the sheer mobility and being able to deplete your LF with hit and run tactics till you are stripped of defenses and cooldowns.
Slow casting speed? All you need to kill any thief build (DD, DP, SD, SP, PD) is a power-necro with a dagger (+staff) and a high sense mouse for fast camera rotation.
The video is about Condition Necromancer.
Also, good thieves don’t tend to have problems with Power Necromancers outside of CoD proc from time to time.
He generalized necromancers.
OK then show me these thieves. On an equal skill level, the powermancer will win 9 out of 10 matches. The key is to play aggressive as soon as the thief engages, what most people don’t do because they are afraid of the stealth mechanic.
a good S/D would have a hard time losing to necromancers due to slow casting and slow auto attacks, the sheer mobility and being able to deplete your LF with hit and run tactics till you are stripped of defenses and cooldowns.
Slow casting speed? All you need to kill any thief build (DD, DP, SD, SP, PD) is a power-necro with a dagger (+staff) and a high sense mouse for fast camera rotation.
soon…when the new patch hits and we get to pick triple trait lines…
Thieves will be able to specc 6 DA/6 SA/6 Trickery and use stolen skills twice. Yeah nah, not looking forward too it.
Right! At the moment I can’t remember, when I lost against a thief the last time. Must have been several weeks ago. And I play a lot WvW-Roaming / sPvP.
But with 2 fears, -50% damge in stealth and the cripple/chill movement buff thieves will be much harder to deal with.
Life Transfer will lose its pressure when they stealth. They can leap away after been crippled/chilled. They can fear+burst us twice within 21 seconds.
@topic:
That necro sucked. He almost had him down and then from the moment on he used spectral wall he messed up terribly.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
- I avoid fighting D/D Eles and Shout/bow Warriors
Why are you avoiding D/D Eles? Chill of Death, Chill in general, Corrupt Boon, Condition Transfer is perfect against D/D Eles, who rely heavily on boons and rotations.
- my main Damage comes from DS #1 and (if I use it) Lich #1, those are the only two skills I use when in the respective form unless I have a specific reason to use e.g. Fear to prevent a stomp/ress, DS #5 to immobilize someone in my wells etc.
Your Dagger autoattack is a great source of damage. If chill of death procs you can 50 to 0 thiefs, guards, mesmers… in 1 to 2 seconds with the dagger while rebuilding life force.
Warhorn 5 cripples all enemies around you for 10 seconds (good in team fights).
Replace Lich with Plague. Lich sucks at higher level spvp. Your enemies know how to deal with this form and kill you in 5 seconds, even 1vs1. Plague 20 sec. perma blind is a great support in team fights. Besides that your best support is massive damage.
- I use my Wells and Staff Marks to control a point
Bad! Use your staff for chill, condi transfer, interrupt! Putting marks on the ground for area control is a waste. Enemies can simply doge over them.
Wells… well, i don’t like them. Most enemies doge out of them and then they are useless and block an area for just 5 seconds.
- I am using Traveller Runes out of convenience:
Why travellar? Take pack runes! If you need swiftness warhorn 5 and spectral walk is enough.
Do I rotate points, am I a Home Point defender, or a Mid Point fighter? Or do I even go straight for far? It was my understanding in sPvP in general: you do not fight off point, you do not engage 1vX unless you know you can win, you don’t camp an uncontested point unless you are a bunker. SO how does Power Necro fit in there?
Your best place most of the time is at close and mid dealing massive damage, corrupt boons, interrupt stomps. Try to focus enemy thieves. This helpes your squishy teammates a lot.
But in solo queue everything can happen. I find myself very often at decapping far because my team plays some strange strategy and going for far is the best option to contribute something helpful (even as a necro).
- When do I use Dagger/WH, when Staff?
Staff is more like a second utility bar. Use it on demand (like mentioned above). Its damage is negligible.
Btw.:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Guide:Rated_PvP_basics_-_Conquest
(edited by KrHome.1920)
I’ve make some try. I’m not the best necro ever and when a ranger, a thief or a mesmer find me from the range I’m barely dead.
A thief? As a power necro you are somewhat of a hardcounter to a thief. Thieves die as collateral damage in your Life Transfer AOE (while you are fighting someone else xD) or within 2 seconds when you attack them with your dagger thanks to chill of death.
Try to use Warhorn 5 right when the thief goes into stealth (to attack you 2 seconds later). This is a 10 second AOE cripple which makes it very hard for him to hit you if you move constantly. And keep in mind that your dagger autoattack does way more damage than his one. So when you’re running around and try to hit each other, it’s a 90% win for you. If he uses Black Powder (auto proc at 25% Health) go into Death Shroud and use Life Transfer (DS Skill 4) to keep pressure on him. Then most thieves lay in downstate next to you when they reappear.
If he immobilizes or stuns you, immediately switch to DS and use Skill 3 (Fear) + Autoattack (guaranteed 4k+ damage if he does not use a stun break).
And watch your staff marks on the ground and your Sigil of Fire auto procs. They show you the position of a stealthed thief.
But against a engi, boon corruption is very good. I’ve try some “strategy”, but in 1vs1 is hard for me to kill one. I have to learn.
Try to get familiar with your Staff skills. This is an underestimated weapon. It is at least as powerful as the thief’s shortbow. With the following combo:
Corrupt Boon > Staff Skill 3 (chill+poison field) > Staff Skill 4 (transfer conditions+explosion finisher) > Dagger or DS Autoattack
you can wreck most engineers in seconds.
The more boons he has which you can convert and the more conditions you can send back to him, the easier the fight. So don’t use this combo randomly!
(edited by KrHome.1920)
“Corrupt Boon” and “Staff 4” (this skill is extremely strong if used in the right moment) after he coni bombed you to send the conditions back to him. Then kill him in a few seconds with the Dagger.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
The current Feline’s Grace is much superior than vigor.
True, but this does not mean, that brainless evade spamming should be rewarded. I main an acro thief for about 2 years now and I would say I know this build. AND I don’t need all that endurance.
This then forces us to build into sudden burts damage, a role that D/P excells at alot more, essentially making S/D very useless in comparison.
I guess you all underestimate the huge damage boost we get from the new stats and excutioner. I am glad we have more damage now at hte cost of maybe 20% of our evade ability, which is still very strong.
Btw.: Yes the new stealth traits are OP. 50% damage reduction in stealth as a minor trait is a complete joke.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBrAS4Bdg~
This looks like a decent acrobatics build to me.
you get:
-perma vigor with 120% boost
-refill endurance when disabled
-refill endurance on signet of agility use
-if you still need more endurance: use sigil of energy on each weaponset
-Evades on S/D3, S/P3, D/D3, SB3
Aren’t that enough evades/dodges?
+ you get
-panic strike
-executioner
-generally more damage because of the new gear stats
you lose:
-significant condition removal
-vitality if you still go full berzerk
Any thief pvp’er who got an idea why it isn’t used in pvp?
-15k burst damage
-permablind
-permastealth
I am pretty sure you met the (not so great) standard D/D roaming build:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/D_roamer
…probably with a few modifications:
-infusion of shadow (CnD costs only 4 Initiative und can be spammed all day=permablind)
-fire+air sigil (for extremely high burst)
This build is pretty weak if you know how it works. It is countered by every other thief build as long as you can avoid its burst.
In pvp it does A LOT LESS damage because of the different CnD coefficient:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cloak_and_Dagger
(edited by KrHome.1920)
SP on 20066 is great in WvW. You can faceroll Rower-Rangers, Power-Necros and Mediguards, GS Zerker Warriors and most Engineer Builds with it.
I combine it with DD for mobility. Perma-Swiftness + Heartseeker + Shadowstep + Withdraw gives you a great mobility. No Greatsword Warrior and no DP Thief can chase you down.
But infight it is definitly inferior against a DP Thief. I avoid fighting against this build (which is pretty easy since he can’t catch me even if he uses all his gapclosers).
lol good luck getting stuck in an animation while necro’s place wells on you XD
You auto-evade during the whole animation (that’s why it is so great against the builds I mentioned before). You can jump in a zerg using sword 2, Pistolwhip, sword 2 again … no problem, you won’t die if the timing is right.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
GPU Limitation: If you enable Supersampling you won’t get your 60 fps (fps drops to 30-40)
CPU Limitation: No 60 fps in Zergplay @ max settings (fps drops to 15-20 fps)
.